As a result, it cannot and will not become a member, and therefore the treaty terms that refer to it have no legal binding.
How close to a USE would it have to become before it came back into consideration again ? A political entity controlling a geographic area with borders and having the means (EU Border Force / EU Army) to control and enforce those borders..
I don't think it's even a possibility. The ECHR is created by the treaties signed by its 47 member countries. It would require each of those 47 - and that includes Russia - to agree to, and ratify, treaty change. Otherwise the existing ruling of the ECHR stands.
Osborne's proclaimed 'March of the Makers' might never have left the starting block but his less heralded 'March of the debt fuelled imported tat buyers' is going great guns with retail sales up by 15% over last four years and an incredible 11% during the last two years:
Sitting in my conservatory with the doors open enjoying the balmy day and some music.
I have been and continue to be in such a good mood (despite having rather a lot on at work) that nothing can phase me now.
Still, if this is all Cameron gets out of the negotiations, it's a piss poor result. It will do nothing to address the fundamental issue which is that the status quo, even with some tweaks, is not on offer and that an ever closer union, with all that that must necessarily imply is not, I think, in Britain's best interests.
Cameron should be addressing the mechanics of how a state not in the eurozone does not have its interests outvoted by the eurozone states. Without that we are going to find ourselves in a position with no control and with our interests ignored and/or overridden.
Sitting in my conservatory with the doors open enjoying the balmy day and some music.
I have been and continue to be in such a good mood (despite having rather a lot on at work) that nothing can phase me now.
Still, if this is all Cameron gets out of the negotiations, it's a piss poor result. It will do nothing to address the fundamental issue which is that the status quo, even with some tweaks, is not on offer and that an ever closer union, with all that that must necessarily imply is not, I think, in Britain's best interests.
Cameron should be addressing the mechanics of how a state not in the eurozone does not have its interests outvoted by the eurozone states. Without that we are going to find ourselves in a position with no control and with our interests ignored and/or overridden.
He could, but that would cut into his Fruit Ninja time.
In 1975 the EC was widely viewed as a growing successful economic grouping. Something good to join. In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past. In 2016/17 these conditions are reversed. The UK is a success and the EC is stagnating with mounting problems. I have no doubt that the vote in 2016/17 is going to be a lot harder for the Remain camp. Regarding the article and a July 2016 date, if true, there is now only a few more working weeks left for a deal to be done by Cameron before 18/19 Feb that could be regarded as attractive by the undecideds. The timescale looks very tight for a 27 country deal.
Would it be fair to note that areas most effected by EU immigration [rather than non-EU] are in coastal, or rural poor areas where UKIP has done pretty well?
IIRC EU immigrants won't be allowed to vote, but non-EU will. Can anyone clarify this?
Is there any research that could help us to see which areas will come out most strongly for Leave beyond the Kipper vote which will be short of ethnic minorities, but may be Leavers?
Most people don't actually care that much about membership - it doesn't impinge on their daily lives.
The idea that people don't see enormously changed communities because of EU immigration, then send their kids to school, visit GPs, see rocketing house prices and then feel it doesn't impact on their lives is a bewildering perspective.
Similar to the general election, IMHO. Greater London, core cities, Merseyside, Scotland, university constituencies, will vote remain. Add to that, a fair number of prosperous Conservative seats in the South.
The rest of the country will vote leave, including some Labour-voting areas in the North.
If you add Scotland to the areas Miliband and Clegg and Lucas won, plus some more prosperous Tory seats in the Midlands and Home Counties you get the Remain total even if a few working class Labour seats in the North, Midlands and Wales vote Out that should be enough for Remain to win
My Google Fu isn't up to much, but there was a DT article intv with Delors IIRC who said political union was always on the cards, since a common currency without one was obviously nonsense - but they knew they couldn't talk about it back then.
In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
Indeed.
The irony is that those same people accuse UKIP supporters of 'wanting to return to the 1950s' when their own pro-EU mentalities were developed in the 1970s.
I can't see how anyone can now argue that a vote to Remain would be anything other than, at best, exactly what we have now and most likely yet more integration. As we have said since this whole charade started, Cameron has never been interested in any real reform and simply wants the bare minimum to keep the UK inside the EU.
I have no idea whether it will work or not but the claim that this was ever a serious renegotiation of our relationship has been shown to be laughably false.
Anyone that thinks things will stay as they are should take a gander at Mr Cumming's recent blog entry.
Prisoners will be getting the vote regardsless of a massive majority in our parliament requiring that this does not happen. More tellingly
In a little noticed case in July 2015, the Divisional Court in London struck down the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 for inconsistency with the Charter. Nothing in today’s ruling suggests the Government’s appeal against that ruling will be successful. In fact, the reverse is true. Despite ‘security’ being the theme of the Conservative Party conference, a foreign court, rather than the British Parliament, will now decide what is necessary to protect the UK’s national security.
Dominic Cummings of the Vote Leave Campaign. You forgot to mention perhaps.
Now you have played the man, how about trying to play the ball, or is the Divisional Court a member of vote leave as well. What is it with tribal Tories and cheap point scoring, are you afraid of the actual issues ?
is Felix a Tory?
So he claims, although I suspect more a member of the Victor Meldrew Party
I can't see how anyone can now argue that a vote to Remain would be anything other than, at best, exactly what we have now and most likely yet more integration. As we have said since this whole charade started, Cameron has never been interested in any real reform and simply wants the bare minimum to keep the UK inside the EU.
I have no idea whether it will work or not but the claim that this was ever a serious renegotiation of our relationship has been shown to be laughably false.
Anyone that thinks things will stay as they are should take a gander at Mr Cumming's recent blog entry.
Prisoners will be getting the vote regardsless of a massive majority in our parliament requiring that this does not happen. More tellingly
In a little noticed case in July 2015, the Divisional Court in London struck down the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 for inconsistency with the Charter. Nothing in today’s ruling suggests the Government’s appeal against that ruling will be successful. In fact, the reverse is true. Despite ‘security’ being the theme of the Conservative Party conference, a foreign court, rather than the British Parliament, will now decide what is necessary to protect the UK’s national security.
Dominic Cummings of the Vote Leave Campaign. You forgot to mention perhaps.
Now you have played the man, how about trying to play the ball, or is the Divisional Court a member of vote leave as well. What is it with tribal Tories and cheap point scoring, are you afraid of the actual issues ?
is Felix a Tory?
He is but somewhat wet on the EU Indigo is just bitter and twisted and he thinks the divisional court decision of July 2015 will win it for the Booers. You have to feel a bit sorry for him but us 'baby eaters' have no heart
Sitting in my conservatory with the doors open enjoying the balmy day and some music.
I have been and continue to be in such a good mood (despite having rather a lot on at work) that nothing can phase me now.
Still, if this is all Cameron gets out of the negotiations, it's a piss poor result. It will do nothing to address the fundamental issue which is that the status quo, even with some tweaks, is not on offer and that an ever closer union, with all that that must necessarily imply is not, I think, in Britain's best interests.
Cameron should be addressing the mechanics of how a state not in the eurozone does not have its interests outvoted by the eurozone states. Without that we are going to find ourselves in a position with no control and with our interests ignored and/or overridden.
WE should not waste our time on this silly thing. We are to going to REMAIN anyway. Let's vote 90 - 10 to stay IN and call it a day.
Cameron should be addressing the mechanics of how a state not in the eurozone does not have its interests outvoted by the eurozone states. Without that we are going to find ourselves in a position with no control and with our interests ignored and/or overridden.
What makes you think he cares ? The referendum promise has done it's job (getting him re-elected with a majority) now he just wants it to go away as painlessly as possible. He is several time a millionaire, nothing the EU do can personally inconvenience him in the slightest once he has retired, and who knows there might be a nice job waiting in the wings.
I can't see how anyone can now argue that a vote to Remain would be anything other than, at best, exactly what we have now and most likely yet more integration. As we have said since this whole charade started, Cameron has never been interested in any real reform and simply wants the bare minimum to keep the UK inside the EU.
I have no idea whether it will work or not but the claim that this was ever a serious renegotiation of our relationship has been shown to be laughably false.
Anyone that thinks things will stay as they are should take a gander at Mr Cumming's recent blog entry.
Prisoners will be getting the vote regardsless of a massive majority in our parliament requiring that this does not happen. More tellingly
In a little noticed case in July 2015, the Divisional Court in London struck down the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 for inconsistency with the Charter. Nothing in today’s ruling suggests the Government’s appeal against that ruling will be successful. In fact, the reverse is true. Despite ‘security’ being the theme of the Conservative Party conference, a foreign court, rather than the British Parliament, will now decide what is necessary to protect the UK’s national security.
Dominic Cummings of the Vote Leave Campaign. You forgot to mention perhaps.
Now you have played the man, how about trying to play the ball, or is the Divisional Court a member of vote leave as well. What is it with tribal Tories and cheap point scoring, are you afraid of the actual issues ?
is Felix a Tory?
So he claims, although I suspect more a member of the Victor Meldrew Party
I can't see how anyone can now argue that a vote to Remain would be anything other than, at best, exactly what we have now and most likely yet more integration. As we have said since this whole charade started, Cameron has never been interested in any real reform and simply wants the bare minimum to keep the UK inside the EU.
I have no idea whether it will work or not but the claim that this was ever a serious renegotiation of our relationship has been shown to be laughably false.
Anyone that thinks things will stay as they are should take a gander at Mr Cumming's recent blog entry.
Prisoners will be getting the vote regardsless of a massive majority in our parliament requiring that this does not happen. More tellingly
In a little noticed case in July 2015, the Divisional Court in London struck down the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 for inconsistency with the Charter. Nothing in today’s ruling suggests the Government’s appeal against that ruling will be successful. In fact, the reverse is true. Despite ‘security’ being the theme of the Conservative Party conference, a foreign court, rather than the British Parliament, will now decide what is necessary to protect the UK’s national security.
Dominic Cummings of the Vote Leave Campaign. You forgot to mention perhaps.
Now you have played the man, how about trying to play the ball, or is the Divisional Court a member of vote leave as well. What is it with tribal Tories and cheap point scoring, are you afraid of the actual issues ?
is Felix a Tory?
So he claims, although I suspect more a member of the Victor Meldrew Party Well he is in the minority of the membership that want to REMAIN.
Sitting in my conservatory with the doors open enjoying the balmy day and some music.
I have been and continue to be in such a good mood (despite having rather a lot on at work) that nothing can phase me now.
Still, if this is all Cameron gets out of the negotiations, it's a piss poor result. It will do nothing to address the fundamental issue which is that the status quo, even with some tweaks, is not on offer and that an ever closer union, with all that that must necessarily imply is not, I think, in Britain's best interests.
Cameron should be addressing the mechanics of how a state not in the eurozone does not have its interests outvoted by the eurozone states. Without that we are going to find ourselves in a position with no control and with our interests ignored and/or overridden.
WE should not waste our time on this silly thing. We are to going to REMAIN anyway. Let's vote 90 - 10 to stay IN and call it a day.
Who knows whether we will stay in or go out. Nobody on here knows what the current state of play is or what the nature of the issue will be when we do come to vote. The Leavers especially are piling supposition on top of prejudice. And what is the fuss over? If we join the EEA it will be very little different from now and certainly not much different from the likely position after renegotiations
In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
Indeed.
The irony is that those same people accuse UKIP supporters of 'wanting to return to the 1950s' when their own pro-EU mentalities were developed in the 1970s.
So the kippers are 65 years behind the times and the inners 35 years behind. We win again
I can't see how anyone can now argue that a vote to Remain would be anything other than, at best, exactly what we have now and most likely yet more integration. As we have said since this whole charade started, Cameron has never been interested in any real reform and simply wants the bare minimum to keep the UK inside the EU.
I have no idea whether it will work or not but the claim that this was ever a serious renegotiation of our relationship has been shown to be laughably false.
Anyone that thinks things will stay as they are should take a gander at Mr Cumming's recent blog entry.
Prisoners will be getting the vote regardsless of a massive majority in our parliament requiring that this does not happen. More tellingly
In a little noticed case in July 2015, the Divisional Court in London struck down the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 for inconsistency with the Charter. Nothing in today’s ruling suggests the Government’s appeal against that ruling will be successful. In fact, the reverse is true. Despite ‘security’ being the theme of the Conservative Party conference, a foreign court, rather than the British Parliament, will now decide what is necessary to protect the UK’s national security.
Dominic Cummings of the Vote Leave Campaign. You forgot to mention perhaps.
Now you have played the man, how about trying to play the ball, or is the Divisional Court a member of vote leave as well. What is it with tribal Tories and cheap point scoring, are you afraid of the actual issues ?
is Felix a Tory?
So he claims, although I suspect more a member of the Victor Meldrew Party
Well he is in the minority of the membership that want to REMAIN.
I'm not a member but let's see how the vote goes eh?
Sitting in my conservatory with the doors open enjoying the balmy day and some music.
I have been and continue to be in such a good mood (despite having rather a lot on at work) that nothing can phase me now.
Still, if this is all Cameron gets out of the negotiations, it's a piss poor result. It will do nothing to address the fundamental issue which is that the status quo, even with some tweaks, is not on offer and that an ever closer union, with all that that must necessarily imply is not, I think, in Britain's best interests.
Cameron should be addressing the mechanics of how a state not in the eurozone does not have its interests outvoted by the eurozone states. Without that we are going to find ourselves in a position with no control and with our interests ignored and/or overridden.
WE should not waste our time on this silly thing. We are to going to REMAIN anyway. Let's vote 90 - 10 to stay IN and call it a day.
Who knows whether we will stay in or go out. Nobody on here knows what the current state of play is or what the nature of the issue will be when we do come to vote. The Leavers especially are piling supposition on top of prejudice. And what is the fuss over? If we join the EEA it will be very little different from now and certainly not much different from the likely position after renegotiations
This is what makes the whole thing so incredibly funny - it really is 'disgusted of Tunbridge Wells on acid and steroids.
In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
Yes, a sense of the patricians thinking they have to manage decline and that European things are always better than the Brits.
If Theresa May did campaign for Leave, then that could be transformative. No one can accuse her of being a wild right winger, and those who know her like her.
Someone else thinks this timetable is suspect. "Officially, the Government is still talking up the prospect of an agreement in February, they want to keep the pressure on the Europeans to do a deal. But in private, there is a recognition that the timetable is likely to slip still further. One Cabinet minister close to Cameron says bluntly: “It is not going to get done in six weeks.” Another that: “It is implausible that out of nowhere a deal can be found in six weeks. But if you say you want it in February, you might get it in June.”"
Someone else thinks this timetable is suspect. "Officially, the Government is still talking up the prospect of an agreement in February, they want to keep the pressure on the Europeans to do a deal. But in private, there is a recognition that the timetable is likely to slip still further. One Cabinet minister close to Cameron says bluntly: “It is not going to get done in six weeks.” Another that: “It is implausible that out of nowhere a deal can be found in six weeks. But if you say you want it in February, you might get it in June.”"
Someone else thinks this timetable is suspect. "Officially, the Government is still talking up the prospect of an agreement in February, they want to keep the pressure on the Europeans to do a deal. But in private, there is a recognition that the timetable is likely to slip still further. One Cabinet minister close to Cameron says bluntly: “It is not going to get done in six weeks.” Another that: “It is implausible that out of nowhere a deal can be found in six weeks. But if you say you want it in February, you might get it in June.”"
If Theresa May did campaign for Leave, then that could be transformative. No one can accuse her of being a wild right winger, and those who know her like her.
Theresa May will campaign on whatever line the Cabinet and Cameron agree which will almost certainly be Remain
If Theresa May did campaign for Leave, then that could be transformative. No one can accuse her of being a wild right winger, and those who know her like her.
I can't see how anyone can now argue that a vote to Remain would be anything other than, at best, exactly what we have now and most likely yet more integration. As we have said since this whole charade started, Cameron has never been interested in any real reform and simply wants the bare minimum to keep the UK inside the EU.
I have no idea whether it will work or not but the claim that this was ever a serious renegotiation of our relationship has been shown to be laughably false.
Anyone that thinks things will stay as they are should take a gander at Mr Cumming's recent blog entry.
Prisoners will be getting the vote regardsless of a massive majority in our parliament requiring that this does not happen. More tellingly
In a little noticed case in July 2015, the Divisional Court in London struck down the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 for inconsistency with the Charter. Nothing in today’s ruling suggests the Government’s appeal against that ruling will be successful. In fact, the reverse is true. Despite ‘security’ being the theme of the Conservative Party conference, a foreign court, rather than the British Parliament, will now decide what is necessary to protect the UK’s national security.
Dominic Cummings of the Vote Leave Campaign. You forgot to mention perhaps.
Now you have played the man, how about trying to play the ball, or is the Divisional Court a member of vote leave as well. What is it with tribal Tories and cheap point scoring, are you afraid of the actual issues ?
is Felix a Tory?
So he claims, although I suspect more a member of the Victor Meldrew Party
Well he is in the minority of the membership that want to REMAIN.
I'm not a member but let's see how the vote goes eh? Felix, what do you expect the EC to look like in 2026? 1) More of a Federalist state? 2) Much the same? 3) Less of a Federalist State?
FWIW my view is that we since have seen a path of a) Expansion and b) More Federalism in each decade, I expect more federalism amongst those that remain.
First...as can't sleep due to massive disappointment after watching new Star Wars movie....
You are yet another example of people falling for the hype and expecting to faint with exhilaration at the end of the movie, it seems reasonably good and certainly better than the prequels but the reason there is another Star Wars is the same reason there was another James Bond, money and given the vast profits both will make the franchises will continue. If you want original and innovative cinema and drama look for another movie or subscribe to Netflix or Amazon Prime
In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
Indeed.
The irony is that those same people accuse UKIP supporters of 'wanting to return to the 1950s' when their own pro-EU mentalities were developed in the 1970s.
So the kippers are 65 years behind the times and the inners 35 years behind. We win again
You can trace the formation of the EU project back to the 1920s and 1930s so not quite sure how you win anything.
In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
Indeed.
The irony is that those same people accuse UKIP supporters of 'wanting to return to the 1950s' when their own pro-EU mentalities were developed in the 1970s.
So the kippers are 65 years behind the times and the inners 35 years behind. We win again
You can trace the formation of the EU project back to the 1920s and 1930s so not quite sure how you win anything.
In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
Indeed.
The irony is that those same people accuse UKIP supporters of 'wanting to return to the 1950s' when their own pro-EU mentalities were developed in the 1970s.
So the kippers are 65 years behind the times and the inners 35 years behind. We win again
No.
UKIP supporters are ACCUSED of having 1950s mentalities whereas the EU worshippers HAVE 1970s mentalities.
What many UKIP supporters want is not a return to the 1950s but the future we were promised rather than future we are receiving.
If Theresa May did campaign for Leave, then that could be transformative. No one can accuse her of being a wild right winger, and those who know her like her.
Theresa May will campaign on whatever line the Cabinet and Cameron agree which will almost certainly be Remain
Friendly £50 bet to fund FATJUGS* says you are wrong! Early Xmas present...!
* Future Accruals Towards Junior's - Usually - Good Servers.
Sitting in my conservatory with the doors open enjoying the balmy day and some music.
I have been and continue to be in such a good mood (despite having rather a lot on at work) that nothing can phase me now.
Still, if this is all Cameron gets out of the negotiations, it's a piss poor result. It will do nothing to address the fundamental issue which is that the status quo, even with some tweaks, is not on offer and that an ever closer union, with all that that must necessarily imply is not, I think, in Britain's best interests.
Cameron should be addressing the mechanics of how a state not in the eurozone does not have its interests outvoted by the eurozone states. Without that we are going to find ourselves in a position with no control and with our interests ignored and/or overridden.
Afternoon everyone,
Last night I visited a local pub which has a big beer garden. There were about 100 people outside at 9pm. This is incredible for December. I've certainly not seen anything like it.
Back to the issue of the day. I'm not convinced July is a good date for a referendum. Surely people will be focusing on holidays. And also the politicos are usually shattered and in need of a break by then - they'll hardly be fitting fit to undertake a big referendum campaign.
Osborne's proclaimed 'March of the Makers' might never have left the starting block but his less heralded 'March of the debt fuelled imported tat buyers' is going great guns with retail sales up by 15% over last four years and an incredible 11% during the last two years:
Borrow and bribe Borrow and bribe Borrow and bribe
Repeat half a trillion times and then continue.
According to David Smith, Economic Editor of The Sunday Times, ''The volume of exports of goods to the rest of the EU has increased by 12.1% over the past 12 months, nearly four times the 3.2% growth in non-EU exports. Imports from non-EU countries have jumped by 10.2%, against 6.9% from the rest of the EU''
In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
Indeed.
The irony is that those same people accuse UKIP supporters of 'wanting to return to the 1950s' when their own pro-EU mentalities were developed in the 1970s.
So the kippers are 65 years behind the times and the inners 35 years behind. We win again
You can trace the formation of the EU project back to the 1920s and 1930s so not quite sure how you win anything.
Hitler's Germany?
No Monnet and Salter who started writing about the idea of a federal Europe and a United States of Europe.
First...as can't sleep due to massive disappointment after watching new Star Wars movie....
You are yet another example of people falling for the hype and expecting to faint with exhilaration at the end of the movie, it seems reasonably good and certainly better than the prequels but the reason there is another Star Wars is the same reason there was another James Bond, money and given the vast profits both will make the franchises will continue. If you want original and innovative cinema and drama look for another movie or subscribe to Netflix or Amazon Prime
Good afternoon all. Sicario was my favourite move of 2015. Has to get the Oscar for 'Tensest traffic jam'.
In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
Indeed.
The irony is that those same people accuse UKIP supporters of 'wanting to return to the 1950s' when their own pro-EU mentalities were developed in the 1970s.
So the kippers are 65 years behind the times and the inners 35 years behind. We win again
You can trace the formation of the EU project back to the 1920s and 1930s so not quite sure how you win anything.
Hitler's Germany?
No Monnet and Salter who started writing about the idea of a federal Europe and a United States of Europe.
In other words just after WW1. You would expect people to be thinking about co-operation and not conflict after all that wouldn't you?
First...as can't sleep due to massive disappointment after watching new Star Wars movie....
You are yet another example of people falling for the hype and expecting to faint with exhilaration at the end of the movie, it seems reasonably good and certainly better than the prequels but the reason there is another Star Wars is the same reason there was another James Bond, money and given the vast profits both will make the franchises will continue. If you want original and innovative cinema and drama look for another movie or subscribe to Netflix or Amazon Prime
Good afternoon all. Sicario was my favourite move of 2015. Has to get the Oscar for 'Tensest traffic jam'.
Yes most things Bemicio Del Toro is in are worth watching
If Theresa May did campaign for Leave, then that could be transformative. No one can accuse her of being a wild right winger, and those who know her like her.
Theresa May will campaign on whatever line the Cabinet and Cameron agree which will almost certainly be Remain
Friendly £50 bet to fund FATJUGS* says you are wrong! Early Xmas present...!
* Future Accruals Towards Junior's - Usually - Good Servers.
Maybe, IDS might leave the Cabinet to campaign for Out and Liam Fox and Owen Patterson are former Cabinet Ministers who will back Out but May is too much of a loyalist and pragmatist to do so
Osborne's proclaimed 'March of the Makers' might never have left the starting block but his less heralded 'March of the debt fuelled imported tat buyers' is going great guns with retail sales up by 15% over last four years and an incredible 11% during the last two years:
Borrow and bribe Borrow and bribe Borrow and bribe
Repeat half a trillion times and then continue.
According to David Smith, Economic Editor of The Sunday Times, ''The volume of exports of goods to the rest of the EU has increased by 12.1% over the past 12 months, nearly four times the 3.2% growth in non-EU exports. Imports from non-EU countries have jumped by 10.2%, against 6.9% from the rest of the EU''
I think you can pick and choose dates to get the results you want. Nevertheless, with the decline is commodity prices and the slowdown in China affecting demand from those areas, I would expect EU expert growth to be quicker than non EU in the next two to three years.
Osborne's proclaimed 'March of the Makers' might never have left the starting block but his less heralded 'March of the debt fuelled imported tat buyers' is going great guns with retail sales up by 15% over last four years and an incredible 11% during the last two years:
Borrow and bribe Borrow and bribe Borrow and bribe
Repeat half a trillion times and then continue.
According to David Smith, Economic Editor of The Sunday Times, ''The volume of exports of goods to the rest of the EU has increased by 12.1% over the past 12 months, nearly four times the 3.2% growth in non-EU exports. Imports from non-EU countries have jumped by 10.2%, against 6.9% from the rest of the EU''
That factoid seems so irrelevant that I can't even be bothered to check whether its true or not.
Although according to the ONS both exports and imports have effectively seen no change in 2015 compared to 2014. So where David Smith is getting these huge increases in trade from is a mystery:
Sitting in my conservatory with the doors open enjoying the balmy day and some music.
I have been and continue to be in such a good mood (despite having rather a lot on at work) that nothing can phase me now.
Still, if this is all Cameron gets out of the negotiations, it's a piss poor result. It will do nothing to address the fundamental issue which is that the status quo, even with some tweaks, is not on offer and that an ever closer union, with all that that must necessarily imply is not, I think, in Britain's best interests.
Cameron should be addressing the mechanics of how a state not in the eurozone does not have its interests outvoted by the eurozone states. Without that we are going to find ourselves in a position with no control and with our interests ignored and/or overridden.
Afternoon everyone,
Last night I visited a local pub which has a big beer garden. There were about 100 people outside at 9pm. This is incredible for December. I've certainly not seen anything like it.
Back to the issue of the day. I'm not convinced July is a good date for a referendum. Surely people will be focusing on holidays. And also the politicos are usually shattered and in need of a break by then - they'll hardly be fitting fit to undertake a big referendum campaign.
You don't that's been taken into account? Farage and his troops will still be bruised after the locals, too!
In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
Indeed.
The irony is that those same people accuse UKIP supporters of 'wanting to return to the 1950s' when their own pro-EU mentalities were developed in the 1970s.
So the kippers are 65 years behind the times and the inners 35 years behind. We win again
You can trace the formation of the EU project back to the 1920s and 1930s so not quite sure how you win anything.
Hitler's Germany?
No Monnet and Salter who started writing about the idea of a federal Europe and a United States of Europe.
In other words just after WW1. You would expect people to be thinking about co-operation and not conflict after all that wouldn't you?
Their ideas went beyond just cooperation. In a United States of Europe there would be no cooperation between countries as those countries would cease to exist.
I can't see how anyone can now argue that a vote to Remain would be anything other than, at best, exactly what we have now and most likely yet more integration. As we have said since this whole charade started, Cameron has never been interested in any real reform and simply wants the bare minimum to keep the UK inside the EU.
I have no idea whether it will work or not but the claim that this was ever a serious renegotiation of our relationship has been shown to be laughably false.
Anyone that thinks things will stay as they are should take a gander at Mr Cumming's recent blog entry.
Prisoners will be getting the vote regardsless of a massive majority in our parliament requiring that this does not happen. More tellingly
In a little noticed case in July 2015, the Divisional Court in London struck down the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 for inconsistency with the Charter. Nothing in today’s ruling suggests the Government’s appeal against that ruling will be successful. In fact, the reverse is true. Despite ‘security’ being the theme of the Conservative Party conference, a foreign court, rather than the British Parliament, will now decide what is necessary to protect the UK’s national security.
Dominic Cummings of the Vote Leave Campaign. You forgot to mention perhaps.
Now you have played the man, how about trying to play the ball, or is the Divisional Court a member of vote leave as well. What is it with tribal Tories and cheap point scoring, are you afraid of the actual issues ?
is Felix a Tory?
So he claims, although I suspect more a member of the Victor Meldrew Party
Well he is in the minority of the membership that want to REMAIN.
I'm not a member but let's see how the vote goes eh?
Felix, what do you expect the EC to look like in 2026? 1) More of a Federalist state? 2) Much the same? 3) Less of a Federalist State?
FWIW my view is that we since have seen a path of a) Expansion and b) More Federalism in each decade, I expect more federalism amongst those that remain.
I would say 2 or 3. The pull of the nation state will prevent much more real federalism. Maybe a small core will try that rote but I doubt it.
In 1975 we were a failing economic state and many people wanted to stick with the recent successful group than go back to our failing past.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
Indeed.
The irony is that those same people accuse UKIP supporters of 'wanting to return to the 1950s' when their own pro-EU mentalities were developed in the 1970s.
So the kippers are 65 years behind the times and the inners 35 years behind. We win again
No.
UKIP supporters are ACCUSED of having 1950s mentalities whereas the EU worshippers HAVE 1970s mentalities.
What many UKIP supporters want is not a return to the 1950s but the future we were promised rather than future we are receiving.
Sense of humour deficiency - and they call me Victor Meldrew!
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
Meanwhile Cameron shuts down the UK's coal fired power stations and makes us dependent upon Russian gas.
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
Meanwhile Cameron shuts down the UK's coal fired power stations and makes us dependent upon Russian gas.
Now there's a useful idiot.
We don't buy meaningful amounts of gas from the Russians
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
You wouldn't perhaps countenance that maybe our establishment's failures are more their own doing than Putin propaganda ?
To add re gas, in the current energy price environment, coal simply does not make economic sense. Thermal (coal) power stations are more expensive to build, have much higher maintenance costs, and cannot be quickly turned on and off.
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
Bravo (and well said). Since Iraq the West has had a crisis of belief in the superiority of its values and of its systems. The Russian system of Triumph of One Strong Man, which it returns to again and again like a dog to its vomit, just isn't as good as the West's. See also Islamic submission, Chinese coherence, ....
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
Meanwhile Cameron shuts down the UK's coal fired power stations and makes us dependent upon Russian gas.
Now there's a useful idiot.
We don't buy meaningful amounts of gas from the Russians
Making the West more dependent upon imported gas helps Russia and damages the West's security situation.
BOO and more hardline eurosceptic Conservative MPs who voted for Cameron in the leadership election on the basis of the referendum promise have got to feel a bit like rubes right now surely?
To add re gas, in the current energy price environment, coal simply does not make economic sense. Thermal (coal) power stations are more expensive to build, have much higher maintenance costs, and cannot be quickly turned on and off.
so why is Germany betting on coal ? And brown coal at that.
Another Richard.. the deep mine seams ran out of coal..it happens... get over it..The one I worked in ran down from 3ft seams to 1ft seams..not a good place to work..it closed..Nothing to do with the Government of the day..whatever its hue..
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
You wouldn't perhaps countenance that maybe our establishment's failures are more their own doing than Putin propaganda ?
You'll be expecting Charles to countenance the end of the City block votes in setting executive 'earnings'.
To add re gas, in the current energy price environment, coal simply does not make economic sense. Thermal (coal) power stations are more expensive to build, have much higher maintenance costs, and cannot be quickly turned on and off.
so why is Germany betting on coal ? And brown coal at that.
To add re gas, in the current energy price environment, coal simply does not make economic sense. Thermal (coal) power stations are more expensive to build, have much higher maintenance costs, and cannot be quickly turned on and off.
so why is Germany betting on coal ? And brown coal at that.
Cos they made the most idiotic decision to ban nuclear? Another genius move by Merkel.
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
Meanwhile Cameron shuts down the UK's coal fired power stations and makes us dependent upon Russian gas.
Now there's a useful idiot.
We don't buy meaningful amounts of gas from the Russians
Making the West more dependent upon imported gas helps Russia and damages the West's security situation.
I'm sorry, but the amount of tradable LNG gas in the world is going through the roof. The US will start exporting in the next 18 months, Australia has four or five giant LNG projects coming on stream.
There is no dependence on dodgy countries. And, frankly, our energy security is increasing right now, not diminishing.
To add re gas, in the current energy price environment, coal simply does not make economic sense. Thermal (coal) power stations are more expensive to build, have much higher maintenance costs, and cannot be quickly turned on and off.
so why is Germany betting on coal ? And brown coal at that.
Because they have massive amounts of lignite that can be mined in open pit mines for almost nothing.
Our coal is either from very expensive pits, or imported. Don't forget that two thirds of the cost of a ton of Colombian coal is it's transportation and shopping.
To add re gas, in the current energy price environment, coal simply does not make economic sense. Thermal (coal) power stations are more expensive to build, have much higher maintenance costs, and cannot be quickly turned on and off.
so why is Germany betting on coal ? And brown coal at that.
Because they have massive amounts of lignite that can be mined in open pit mines for almost nothing.
Our coal is either from very expensive pits, or imported. Don't forget that two thirds of the cost of a ton of Colombian coal is it's transportation and shopping.
Hmm
but lignite isn't terribly efficient as a fuel and is much more of a pollutant, the coal stations in nGermany will be as expensive as those here.
In a similar fashion with shipping rates, fuel and coal itself all coming down in price why wouldn't coal be more competitive in the coming years.
To add re gas, in the current energy price environment, coal simply does not make economic sense. Thermal (coal) power stations are more expensive to build, have much higher maintenance costs, and cannot be quickly turned on and off.
so why is Germany betting on coal ? And brown coal at that.
Because they have massive amounts of lignite that can be mined in open pit mines for almost nothing.
Our coal is either from very expensive pits, or imported. Don't forget that two thirds of the cost of a ton of Colombian coal is it's transportation and shopping.
58% of gas is from Norway, another 20-odd % from Belgium/Netherlands and the remaining 20% is LNG. 90% of LNG is from Quatar according to government. Although 2014 figures:
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
I ploughed through what is a pretty turgid piece of anti-Putin rhetoric and to be honest Jackart's right about some of it but by no means all of it. We need "an enemy" or something to be frightened about. It provides political, social, economic and cultural cohesion and identity since we can all identify what we're against much more easily than what we're for.
Once it was the USSR, now it's extremist Islam and perhaps tomorrow it will be climate change - I saw two people having lunch outside at a café in the Barking Road today so climate change is here and now (apparently).
Re-enforcing our prejudices against "the enemy" or "the fear" fuels the media and cultural mainstream and builds cultural stereotypes and identities. We can't exist as a cohesive whole without an enemy to oppose or a fear to confront. That's why the Conservative and Labour parties need each other - if one disappeared, the other would follow.
Then it becomes about enforcing conformity and identity - saying the right thing, supporting the right side, making the right arguments such that it becomes impossible for a coherent counter-argument to be formed, let alone discussed.
There may be arguments for further integration with the EU, there may be arguments for tax rises, there may be arguments for stronger environmental policies but if a climate exists even in a free society when it becomes impossible to think the unthinkable, then we have lost the war.
BOO and more hardline eurosceptic Conservative MPs who voted for Cameron in the leadership election on the basis of the referendum promise have got to feel a bit like rubes right now surely?
Some of us voted for Cameron because we thought he would make a good Prime Minister. He has not disappointed in that respect. The art of politics is the art of the possible. It is now up to the British people to decide IN or OUT.
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
You wouldn't perhaps countenance that maybe our establishment's failures are more their own doing than Putin propaganda ?
Of course they are idiots, and make lots of mistakes.
But, on the whole, they are not mad, bad, corrupt and out to poison us, sell the country down the river and destroy the environment
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
Meanwhile Cameron shuts down the UK's coal fired power stations and makes us dependent upon Russian gas.
Now there's a useful idiot.
We don't buy meaningful amounts of gas from the Russians
Making the West more dependent upon imported gas helps Russia and damages the West's security situation.
I'm sorry, but the amount of tradable LNG gas in the world is going through the roof. The US will start exporting in the next 18 months, Australia has four or five giant LNG projects coming on stream.
There is no dependence on dodgy countries. And, frankly, our energy security is increasing right now, not diminishing.
With respect Robert that sounds like the sort of thing we were told about how strong the economy was in 2005-2007 and how successful the banks in particular were.
Now perhaps things are as rosy as you say about LNG. But if so why doesn't anyone want to build gas fired power stations in the UK ? Why does the government instead have to promise massive subsidies for nuclear and diesel generator farms ?
To add re gas, in the current energy price environment, coal simply does not make economic sense. Thermal (coal) power stations are more expensive to build, have much higher maintenance costs, and cannot be quickly turned on and off.
so why is Germany betting on coal ? And brown coal at that.
Because, in a moment of idiocy, Merkel closed down all their nuclear power stations?
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
I ploughed through what is a pretty turgid piece of anti-Putin rhetoric and to be honest Jackart's right about some of it but by no means all of it. We need "an enemy" or something to be frightened about. It provides political, social, economic and cultural cohesion and identity since we can all identify what we're against much more easily than what we're for.
Once it was the USSR, now it's extremist Islam and perhaps tomorrow it will be climate change - I saw two people having lunch outside at a café in the Barking Road today so climate change is here and now (apparently).
Re-enforcing our prejudices against "the enemy" or "the fear" fuels the media and cultural mainstream and builds cultural stereotypes and identities. We can't exist as a cohesive whole without an enemy to oppose or a fear to confront. That's why the Conservative and Labour parties need each other - if one disappeared, the other would follow.
Then it becomes about enforcing conformity and identity - saying the right thing, supporting the right side, making the right arguments such that it becomes impossible for a coherent counter-argument to be formed, let alone discussed.
There may be arguments for further integration with the EU, there may be arguments for tax rises, there may be arguments for stronger environmental policies but if a climate exists even in a free society when it becomes impossible to think the unthinkable, then we have lost the war.
The globe is warming folks and alarmingly so - let's hope we as a species can take action to mitigate some of the impacts we continue to make on the environment.
This is O/T but, once again, an excellent and thoughtful blogpost that sets out the fundamental threat that the West faces. We are losing at the Great Game at the moment - and a lot of it is our own fault. Worth reading the whole thing from Jackart, but the conclusions are below.
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
You wouldn't perhaps countenance that maybe our establishment's failures are more their own doing than Putin propaganda ?
You'll be expecting Charles to countenance the end of the City block votes in setting executive 'earnings'.
I'm not an executive, I'm a shareholder. I want my employees to be well paid and incentivised to perform. But I don't countenance executive looting. It's why, for example, we sold our interests in investment banking a long time ago.
Mr. Charles, be fair. Germany does have a history of tsunamis and earthquakes. Ahem.
That decision by Merkel was nearly as idiotic as the policy of taking 1.5 million migrants....From what I understand, Germany is also failing to invest in internet and their famed autobahn system is in much need of heavy investment.
Mr. Charles, be fair. Germany does have a history of tsunamis and earthquakes. Ahem.
That decision by Merkel was nearly as idiotic as the policy of taking 1.5 million migrants....From what I understand, Germany is also failing to invest in internet and their famed autobahn system is in much need of heavy investment.
It's an interesting character flaw.
She seems to be very rational most of the time, but then occasionally indulges in disastrous emotion-based gesture politics
Mr. Charles, be fair. Germany does have a history of tsunamis and earthquakes. Ahem.
That decision by Merkel was nearly as idiotic as the policy of taking 1.5 million migrants....From what I understand, Germany is also failing to invest in internet and their famed autobahn system is in much need of heavy investment.
It's an interesting character flaw.
She seems to be very rational most of the time, but then occasionally indulges in disastrous emotion-based gesture politics
Closing down an entire industry is one hell of a virtue signal
UKIP supporters are ACCUSED of having 1950s mentalities whereas the EU worshippers HAVE 1970s mentalities.
This is exactly the kind of language that's poisoning the debate. Try it the other way around and see what I mean.
EU supporters are ACCUSED of having 1970s mentatalities whereas the UKIP worshippers HAVE 1950s mentalities.
Equally offensive... Frankly, this country is heading for a hell of a lot of trouble, post referendum, whatever the result if this kind of language gains traction in the campaign. We all have to live together afterwards.
I'm as pro-EU as they come but I'm not as scared of leaving the EU as I'm scared of the aftermath of the vote - whichever side wins.
The globe is warming folks and alarmingly so - let's hope we as a species can take action to mitigate some of the impacts we continue to make on the environment.
UKIP supporters are ACCUSED of having 1950s mentalities whereas the EU worshippers HAVE 1970s mentalities.
This is exactly the kind of language that's poisoning the debate. Try it the other way around and see what I mean.
EU supporters are ACCUSED of having 1970s mentatalities whereas the UKIP worshippers HAVE 1950s mentalities.
Equally offensive... Frankly, this country is heading for a hell of a lot of trouble, post referendum, whatever the result if this kind of language gains traction in the campaign. We all have to live together afterwards.
I'm as pro-EU as they come but I'm not as scared of leaving the EU as I'm scared of the aftermath of the vote - whichever side wins.
I honestly don't think it'll be like what happened in Scotland post indyref. People just don't really care that much about the EU, whereas nationalism in Scotland is a source of great passion.
The globe is warming folks and alarmingly so - let's hope we as a species can take action to mitigate some of the impacts we continue to make on the environment.
UKIP supporters are ACCUSED of having 1950s mentalities whereas the EU worshippers HAVE 1970s mentalities.
This is exactly the kind of language that's poisoning the debate. Try it the other way around and see what I mean.
EU supporters are ACCUSED of having 1970s mentatalities whereas the UKIP worshippers HAVE 1950s mentalities.
Equally offensive... Frankly, this country is heading for a hell of a lot of trouble, post referendum, whatever the result if this kind of language gains traction in the campaign. We all have to live together afterwards.
I'm as pro-EU as they come but I'm not as scared of leaving the EU as I'm scared of the aftermath of the vote - whichever side wins.
Fair enough.
But the tactics of bigotry and belittling have been used by the establishment to shut down discussion on any number of issues - not just the EU.
The globe is warming folks and alarmingly so - let's hope we as a species can take action to mitigate some of the impacts we continue to make on the environment.
Comments
*quiet voice* and average level of education
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/datasets-and-tables/data-selector.html?cdid=J467&dataset=drsi&table-id=1
Borrow and bribe
Borrow and bribe
Borrow and bribe
Repeat half a trillion times and then continue.
Sitting in my conservatory with the doors open enjoying the balmy day and some music.
I have been and continue to be in such a good mood (despite having rather a lot on at work) that nothing can phase me now.
Still, if this is all Cameron gets out of the negotiations, it's a piss poor result. It will do nothing to address the fundamental issue which is that the status quo, even with some tweaks, is not on offer and that an ever closer union, with all that that must necessarily imply is not, I think, in Britain's best interests.
Cameron should be addressing the mechanics of how a state not in the eurozone does not have its interests outvoted by the eurozone states. Without that we are going to find ourselves in a position with no control and with our interests ignored and/or overridden.
How are the votes going to be counted/reported? Will results be declared by EU region?
One rule for the executive oligarchy and another rule for 'the locals aren't willing to do the work' rest.
In 2016/17 these conditions are reversed. The UK is a success and the EC is stagnating with mounting problems. I have no doubt that the vote in 2016/17 is going to be a lot harder for the Remain camp. Regarding the article and a July 2016 date, if true, there is now only a few more working weeks left for a deal to be done by Cameron before 18/19 Feb that could be regarded as attractive by the undecideds. The timescale looks very tight for a 27 country deal.
Interestingly, you can still detect traces of the defeatist attitude of the 70s in some of the posts on here by eg Richard N who is obviously of that generation.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2015/dec/18/the-demise-of-uk-deep-coal-mining-decades-of-decline
Was there really a pit in North London in the 1960s ?
The irony is that those same people accuse UKIP supporters of 'wanting to return to the 1950s' when their own pro-EU mentalities were developed in the 1970s.
So he claims, although I suspect more a member of the Victor Meldrew Party
He is but somewhat wet on the EU
I DO NOT BELIEVE IT
Well he is in the minority of the membership that want to REMAIN.
And what is the fuss over? If we join the EEA it will be very little different from now and certainly not much different from the likely position after renegotiations
I'm not a member but let's see how the vote goes eh?
"Officially, the Government is still talking up the prospect of an agreement in February, they want to keep the pressure on the Europeans to do a deal.
But in private, there is a recognition that the timetable is likely to slip still further.
One Cabinet minister close to Cameron says bluntly: “It is not going to get done in six weeks.”
Another that: “It is implausible that out of nowhere a deal can be found in six weeks. But if you say you want it in February, you might get it in June.”"
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/suncolumnists/6813306/EU-chiefs-will-wreck-David-Camerons-deal-timetable.html
Are we more likely to get a referendum in October or November?
#BringItOn
Felix, what do you expect the EC to look like in 2026?
1) More of a Federalist state?
2) Much the same?
3) Less of a Federalist State?
FWIW my view is that we since have seen a path of a) Expansion and b) More Federalism in each decade, I expect more federalism amongst those that remain.
UKIP supporters are ACCUSED of having 1950s mentalities whereas the EU worshippers HAVE 1970s mentalities.
What many UKIP supporters want is not a return to the 1950s but the future we were promised rather than future we are receiving.
* Future Accruals Towards Junior's - Usually - Good Servers.
Last night I visited a local pub which has a big beer garden. There were about 100 people outside at 9pm. This is incredible for December. I've certainly not seen anything like it.
Back to the issue of the day. I'm not convinced July is a good date for a referendum. Surely people will be focusing on holidays. And also the politicos are usually shattered and in need of a break by then - they'll hardly be fitting fit to undertake a big referendum campaign.
Although according to the ONS both exports and imports have effectively seen no change in 2015 compared to 2014. So where David Smith is getting these huge increases in trade from is a mystery:
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_426966.pdf
1) More of a Federalist state?
2) Much the same?
3) Less of a Federalist State?
FWIW my view is that we since have seen a path of a) Expansion and b) More Federalism in each decade, I expect more federalism amongst those that remain.
I would say 2 or 3. The pull of the nation state will prevent much more real federalism. Maybe a small core will try that rote but I doubt it.
http://www.brackenworld.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/trump-and-corbyn-le-pen-and-farage.html
Putin is feeding the "anti-establishment" lines, which get far more traction than they deserve. Our "elite" is not "corrupt", NATO is not "an aggressor", our democracy isn't a sham, Russia isn't being "provoked", Fracking doesn't "poison the water supply". The ballot boxes were not stuffed in the Scots independence referendum, we are not being lied to by "the mainstream media". Please stop repeating Putin's lies, however much you want to agree with them. Please be sceptical of Russia Today. Please don't say "Putin stands up for his people" because he doesn't. He is prepared and able, unlike our leaders, to sacrifice the Russian people at will, to the greater aim of Greater Glory of Vladimir Vladimirovic Putin. Do not be his useful idiot.
Now there's a useful idiot.
http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060026121
http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2146538/erdogans_turkey_embarks_on_massive_dash_for_coal.html
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/aug/06/is-it-too-late-to-stop-turkeys-coal-rush
I wonder if those new Turkish coal power station meet the same environmental standards as the UK ones being shut down ?
There is no dependence on dodgy countries. And, frankly, our energy security is increasing right now, not diminishing.
Our coal is either from very expensive pits, or imported. Don't forget that two thirds of the cost of a ton of Colombian coal is it's transportation and shopping.
but lignite isn't terribly efficient as a fuel and is much more of a pollutant, the coal stations in nGermany will be as expensive as those here.
In a similar fashion with shipping rates, fuel and coal itself all coming down in price why wouldn't coal be more competitive in the coming years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12058456/IEA-sees-peak-coal-as-demand-crumbles-in-China.html
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/350941/UK_Energy_in_Brief_2014_revised.pdf
I ploughed through what is a pretty turgid piece of anti-Putin rhetoric and to be honest Jackart's right about some of it but by no means all of it. We need "an enemy" or something to be frightened about. It provides political, social, economic and cultural cohesion and identity since we can all identify what we're against much more easily than what we're for.
Once it was the USSR, now it's extremist Islam and perhaps tomorrow it will be climate change - I saw two people having lunch outside at a café in the Barking Road today so climate change is here and now (apparently).
Re-enforcing our prejudices against "the enemy" or "the fear" fuels the media and cultural mainstream and builds cultural stereotypes and identities. We can't exist as a cohesive whole without an enemy to oppose or a fear to confront. That's why the Conservative and Labour parties need each other - if one disappeared, the other would follow.
Then it becomes about enforcing conformity and identity - saying the right thing, supporting the right side, making the right arguments such that it becomes impossible for a coherent counter-argument to be formed, let alone discussed.
There may be arguments for further integration with the EU, there may be arguments for tax rises, there may be arguments for stronger environmental policies but if a climate exists even in a free society when it becomes impossible to think the unthinkable, then we have lost the war.
But, on the whole, they are not mad, bad, corrupt and out to poison us, sell the country down the river and destroy the environment
Now perhaps things are as rosy as you say about LNG. But if so why doesn't anyone want to build gas fired power stations in the UK ? Why does the government instead have to promise massive subsidies for nuclear and diesel generator farms ?
Almost finished The Greatest Knight, a William Marshal biography by Thomas Asbridge.
Except for being annoyed by a one-off use of CE rather than AD [blasphemy!], it's really very good.
Handily, it also covers reigns from King Stephen to King Henry III, the end of which is covered by the three biographies I read earlier this year.
November 2015 Global temperatures were the warmest ever recorded for a November according to NOAA.
Temperatures were close to 1C above the 20th century average.
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201511
The globe is warming folks and alarmingly so - let's hope we as a species can take action to mitigate some of the impacts we continue to make on the environment.
She seems to be very rational most of the time, but then occasionally indulges in disastrous emotion-based gesture politics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntfslrhajAg
EU supporters are ACCUSED of having 1970s mentatalities whereas the UKIP worshippers HAVE 1950s mentalities.
Equally offensive... Frankly, this country is heading for a hell of a lot of trouble, post referendum, whatever the result if this kind of language gains traction in the campaign.
I'm as pro-EU as they come but I'm not as scared of leaving the EU as I'm scared of the aftermath of the vote - whichever side wins.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-17/what-just-happened-to-solar-and-wind-is-a-really-big-deal
But the tactics of bigotry and belittling have been used by the establishment to shut down discussion on any number of issues - not just the EU.
Only when its returned do some people get upset.