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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s LAB closes the gap once again in the October ComRe

SystemSystem Posts: 12,221
edited October 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s LAB closes the gap once again in the October ComRes/Mail phone poll

After the GE2015 polling disaster ComRes was the first firm to announce radical changes in its weightings to deal with the apparent problem of the Conservatives being understated. The result is that its polls have broadly shown bigger CON leads than those from other firms. So today’s numbers will give the red team even more comfort.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,994
    edited October 2015
    Excellent poll for the Tories.

    Keeps Agent Corbyn in place.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421
    Tax credits are the boost Labour needs for Oldham West & Royton.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Corbyn remains the best £3 I've ever spent. Seumas Milne, John IRA McDonnell, SWPers in key jobs and Diane Abbot as sex kitten.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Excellent poll for the Tories.

    Keeps Agent Corbyn in place.

    Indeed. If this trend continued then it's a bit more unlikely that Tax Credits Osbo will succeed to the leadership.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421

    and Diane Abbot as sex kitten.

    Thanks for that, I'm about to eat.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    I would not be surprised with a Labour lead with one of the other pollsters.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421

    Excellent poll for the Tories.

    Keeps Agent Corbyn in place.

    Indeed. If this trend continued then it's a bit more unlikely that Tax Credits Osbo will succeed to the leadership.
    Have you laid him on the exchanges yet, Mr Smithson :) ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    edited October 2015
    Point of order: two results aren't a pattern, just a line.

    Have to wait and see how things stand when tax credits aren't all over the press and when the weather improves (I seem to remember Labour doing better/Conservatives worse over winter).

    That said, it appears to be improving for the Hamas-befriending unilateralist socialist.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    We also have a poll from BMG, it seems:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects · 25m25 minutes ago
    Westminster voting intention:
    CON: 37%
    LAB: 31%
    UKIP: 15%
    LDEM: 6%
    GRN: 5%
    (via BMG / 22 - 27 Oct)
  • OGH "The Tory position has not been helped by analysts suggesting that the impact on many families will not be alleviated that much by his new National Living Wage."

    Having watched This Week, Julia Hartley-Brewer made a much better case of the Tax Credits change than all the Govt spokes people that have attempted to explain it.

    Meanwhile Osborne continues to spread himself far too thinly and is the main person highlighted as behind two Govt announcements this AM.
    1. Appointig the Infrastructure Team (anyone remember Osborne's HR failure on Coulson?)
    2. the EC negotiations

    Plain madness for Osborne to spread so wide and mistakes like the Tax Credit analysis and communication are inevitable.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Pulpstar said:

    Excellent poll for the Tories.

    Keeps Agent Corbyn in place.

    Indeed. If this trend continued then it's a bit more unlikely that Tax Credits Osbo will succeed to the leadership.
    Have you laid him on the exchanges yet, Mr Smithson :) ?
    Mike does not allow emotions to get the better of him when it comes to betting.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited October 2015
    For me by far the outstanding figure in that survey is a mere 20% are for cutting the deficit more slowly.

    4 in 5 want the deficit gone. People want it dealt with. And that is the real reason tax credit cuts are being opposed. The opposition want Osborne to fail because they know that clearing the deficit is what Osborne was elected to do.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm delighted Comrade Corbyn is getting pointless polling uplift 4.5yrs from an election.

    It makes the DUEMA look a bit hysterical.

    Comrade Corbyn nor his Pink Floyd Offspring activists will ever gain power.

    Point of order: two results aren't a pattern, just a line.

    Have to wait and see how things stand when tax credits aren't all over the press and when the weather improves (I seem to remember Labour doing better/Conservatives worse over winter).

    That said, it appears to be improving for the Hamas-befriending unilateralist socialist.

  • Are the tax credits findings in this poll that bad? 35% wanting something which neither Labour nor the LibDems want. 33% choosing the easy non-decision. 20% supporting Labour's position of borrowing more. The question is phrased in such a way that you'd always get that kind of result, for any cut in public expenditure.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    "So today’s numbers will give the red team even more comfort."

    Again, this shows how far Labour has fallen.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,842
    I'm not sure Mike can draw that conclusion. Respondents were only given the option to approve of one of the options (or signify their top priority). There may well be many who think the UK spends too much on aid but would like tax credits cut too.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    Having watched This Week, Julia Hartley-Brewer made a much better case of the Tax Credits change than all the Govt spokes people that have attempted to explain it.

    She was excellent, particularly on the 'hard working families' point. Two people working 16 hours a week between them are not hard working.
  • Excellent poll for the Tories.

    Keeps Agent Corbyn in place.

    Indeed. If this trend continued then it's a bit more unlikely that Tax Credits Osbo will succeed to the leadership.
    I prefer Ozzy to remain as Chief Strategist than see him become PM/Tory leader
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Missed it initially, but Mr. Nabavi's spot on.

    The options are hugely non-neutral. Propose any cut and offer alternatives of Tax The Evil Rich, and Cut Stupid Aid, and very many lefties and righties will go for those alternatives.

    A straight Oppose/Support for tax credits being cut would be fairer (possibly with a Don't Know option).
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    JHB takes no nonsense on Twitter or paper reviews - she's a great advocate.
    tlg86 said:

    Having watched This Week, Julia Hartley-Brewer made a much better case of the Tax Credits change than all the Govt spokes people that have attempted to explain it.

    She was excellent, particularly on the 'hard working families' point. Two people working 16 hours a week between them are not hard working.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,836

    Excellent poll for the Tories.

    Keeps Agent Corbyn in place.

    Indeed. If this trend continued then it's a bit more unlikely that Tax Credits Osbo will succeed to the leadership.
    So doubly good news for the Conservatives.

    On topic, I'm still not sure we can rely on the opinion polls yet - they're bound to yo-yo a bit for a few months as the pollsters toy with methodologies and don't knows make up their minds about Corbyn. But after last week, surely it would have been a VERY big story if Labour had not been making at least some progress? That would really have been something to alarm Seumas Milne (except he would probably have decided the figures were wrong and left it at that).
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2015

    Are the tax credits findings in this poll that bad? 35% wanting something which neither Labour nor the LibDems want. 33% choosing the easy non-decision. 20% supporting Labour's position of borrowing more. The question is phrased in such a way that you'd always get that kind of result, for any cut in public expenditure.

    Yeah, but 8% Richard?

    Wasn't support for the poll tax - even at the height of its unpopularity - hovering around 20%?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited October 2015
    Remember what the Uncle Lyton said about polling questions like this...basically its all bulls##t.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    And IIRC - 3/4 Labour vs Tory local elections showed a swing Torywards last night.

    Remember what the Uncle Lyton said about polling questions like this...basically its all bulls##t.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Because the Guardian simply hasn't been getting enough clicks recently:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/29/time-to-do-away-with-manhood
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. Pong, this isn't support for tax credits, it's support for them as the first preference of several options, two of which are almost guaranteed to get a lot of support from those on both left and right.

    It's like me asking whether people would like to sleep with Olivia Wilde, Jennifer Morrison, neither or both. The option for Jennifer Morrison would probably get low single digits. That doesn't mean 3% of men [or women] would want to sleep with her. It's misleading to read it that way.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Exclusive: Left-wing mob forces Scottish Tories to cancel conference on police advice. https://t.co/6xOMflXXXW
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    antifrank said:

    We also have a poll from BMG, it seems:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects · 25m25 minutes ago
    Westminster voting intention:
    CON: 37%
    LAB: 31%
    UKIP: 15%
    LDEM: 6%
    GRN: 5%
    (via BMG / 22 - 27 Oct)

    Oh dear.... shows the danger of threads based on minor change in one poll :)
  • agingjbagingjb Posts: 76
    Elected Tory one-party state for the foreseeable future. A quarter of the electorate unrepresented in the Commons. How will it end?
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    antifrank said:

    Because the Guardian simply hasn't been getting enough clicks recently:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/29/time-to-do-away-with-manhood

    I'm tempted to have a look but that means giving the guardian a click (and earning it a penny?) that it doesn't deserve.
    We need a name for these stories which I presume you are suggesting are only there to raise a bogus controversy.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,686
    Just for fun: Electoral Calculus on these numbers shows:

    Con 321 (-10)
    Lab 242 (+10)
    LD 8 (-)
    UKIP 1 (-)
    Grn 1 (-)
    SNP 56 (-)

    Con 5 short of majority.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Remember what the Uncle Lyton said about polling questions like this...basically its all bulls##t.

    Quite. What about all the alternative suggestions it did not make.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Look at Holyrood, when other Parties fail - the electorate decides.
    agingjb said:

    Elected Tory one-party state for the foreseeable future. A quarter of the electorate unrepresented in the Commons. How will it end?

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175

    I'm not sure Mike can draw that conclusion. Respondents were only given the option to approve of one of the options (or signify their top priority). There may well be many who think the UK spends too much on aid but would like tax credits cut too.

    Quite - ComRes supplementaries have always been pretty suspect.
  • agingjb said:

    Elected Tory one-party state for the foreseeable future. A quarter of the electorate unrepresented in the Commons. How will it end?

    It will end with the Tories singing Tomorrow belongs to me
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Exclusive: Left-wing mob forces Scottish Tories to cancel conference on police advice. https://t.co/6xOMflXXXW

    The biggest controversy I can imagine happening in Largs is an argument about what flavour of ice cream to pick in Nardini's.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    We called them Comedy Res for a reason for a long while. I don't pay much attention at all bar amusement factor.
    felix said:

    I'm not sure Mike can draw that conclusion. Respondents were only given the option to approve of one of the options (or signify their top priority). There may well be many who think the UK spends too much on aid but would like tax credits cut too.

    Quite - ComRes supplementaries have always been pretty suspect.
  • Re the polling numbers are we not really just really regressing to the mean. There is no way the Tories would have won a GE by 12-14% if it had been held in August etc, and now they are back to making some unpopular decisions.

    Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Labour edge ahead within 12 months. In terms of what that means for 2020, bugger all, unless you count Labour still having Corbyn.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    Barnesian said:

    Just for fun: Electoral Calculus on these numbers shows:

    Con 321 (-10)
    Lab 242 (+10)
    LD 8 (-)
    UKIP 1 (-)
    Grn 1 (-)
    SNP 56 (-)

    Con 5 short of majority.

    Once you factor in the differential turnouts for region/age/urban-rural the Tories could possibly increase their majority :)
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I think @foxinsoxuk called it when he named Corbyn a *Holy Fool*.

    Re the polling numbers are we not really just really regressing to the mean. There is no way the Tories would have won a GE by 12-14% if it had been held in August etc, and now they are back to making some unpopular decisions.

    Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Labour edge ahead within 12 months. In terms of what that means for 2020, bugger all, unless you count Labour still having Corbyn.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421

    agingjb said:

    Elected Tory one-party state for the foreseeable future. A quarter of the electorate unrepresented in the Commons. How will it end?

    It will end with the Tories singing Tomorrow belongs to me
    To Africa.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    edited October 2015
    tlg86 said:

    Having watched This Week, Julia Hartley-Brewer made a much better case of the Tax Credits change than all the Govt spokes people that have attempted to explain it.

    She was excellent, particularly on the 'hard working families' point. Two people working 16 hours a week between them are not hard working.
    Just watched it now, a good piece from Julia HB, if a little Daily Mail right-wing for my liking. She does have a real point on part time working though, which no-one else in the media or from the government seems to have mentioned in the debate so far.

    That Portillo can say he doesn't know enough about it says that the problem is very complex.
    I have still not seen any real world calculations about the tax credit changes, in the context of other changes and in both absolute and relative terms. Can anyone answer the question of the person losing £1500 a year is working how many hours and earning how much in total?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    I think @foxinsoxuk called it when he named Corbyn a *Holy Fool*.

    Re the polling numbers are we not really just really regressing to the mean. There is no way the Tories would have won a GE by 12-14% if it had been held in August etc, and now they are back to making some unpopular decisions.

    Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Labour edge ahead within 12 months. In terms of what that means for 2020, bugger all, unless you count Labour still having Corbyn.

    Jeremy Corbyn as Celestine V?

    Perhaps John McDonnell will be Boniface VIII, speaking in a spectral voice down a tube in the mid of night.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Excellent poll for the Tories.

    Keeps Agent Corbyn in place.

    Indeed. If this trend continued then it's a bit more unlikely that Tax Credits Osbo will succeed to the leadership.
    So soon? He's only seemed credible as an option for about 6 months, poor chap.

    FPT

    Mr. D, I share your revulsion at DLC (although did like The Witcher 3 throwing 16 free pieces out).

    I think there's about a year from Dragon Age Inquisition's original release to the GOTY version, and about a year and a half (after checking) of the equivalent for Skyrim.

    Suppose it depends if the price drops quickly or not. It'd be annoying to wait a year, get a cut-price version, then have the GOTY be announced the following week.

    I am happy with certain kinds of DLC. Big, expansive updates that add content to a great game some way down the line, I am happy to pay for - for certain of those, even for big companies, I am willing to accept they may not have finalised the work on them if the game itself did not sell well, and if the intent is to enhance the game, not substitute for a half baked experience in the original game. I was quite happy to pay for some Mass Effect Dragon Age and Fallout DLC (not all, they've had the shadier kind too). It felt like the kind you want, but don't need. It's still motivated by money, but I'm at least getting something for it to enhance what I like, not because it's the only way to enjoy the game properly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    antifrank said:

    Because the Guardian simply hasn't been getting enough clicks recently:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/29/time-to-do-away-with-manhood

    Masterful stuff - the headline and summaryline alone is enough to get blood boiling the world over, they will be very pleased.
  • antifrank said:

    I think @foxinsoxuk called it when he named Corbyn a *Holy Fool*.

    Re the polling numbers are we not really just really regressing to the mean. There is no way the Tories would have won a GE by 12-14% if it had been held in August etc, and now they are back to making some unpopular decisions.

    Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Labour edge ahead within 12 months. In terms of what that means for 2020, bugger all, unless you count Labour still having Corbyn.

    Jeremy Corbyn as Celestine V?

    Perhaps John McDonnell will be Boniface VIII, speaking in a spectral voice down a tube in the mid of night.
    Please I want Corbyn to be Alexander VI.

    Though I wonder what Corbyn thinks of Adrian IV and his approach to Ireland
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Exclusive: Left-wing mob forces Scottish Tories to cancel conference on police advice. https://t.co/6xOMflXXXW

    Those Nats don't like democracy do they?
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    OGH "The Tory position has not been helped by analysts suggesting that the impact on many families will not be alleviated that much by his new National Living Wage."

    Having watched This Week, Julia Hartley-Brewer made a much better case of the Tax Credits change than all the Govt spokes people that have attempted to explain it.

    Meanwhile Osborne continues to spread himself far too thinly and is the main person highlighted as behind two Govt announcements this AM.
    1. Appointig the Infrastructure Team (anyone remember Osborne's HR failure on Coulson?)
    2. the EC negotiations

    Plain madness for Osborne to spread so wide and mistakes like the Tax Credit analysis and communication are inevitable.

    He is the defacto deputy PM. First Secretary of State. This is what the job entails. He makes a likely prospect for being the next PM, but I think there is a danger of anti Osborne maniacs getting too obsessive. Deputy PM is not a bad job and with a following wind it makes for a smooth change over of leadership. But it might be quite all that Osborne has in mind, as I say its not a bad job, he is doing a lot in govt already. The onus surely is on someone else to start achieving something and looking viable as a future leader.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    agingjb said:

    Elected Tory one-party state for the foreseeable future. A quarter of the electorate unrepresented in the Commons. How will it end?

    Nothing lasts forever. Even if Tory wins are inevitable for the forseeable future, which I doubt, in a country like the UK that doesn't mean disaster even if they are not liked, just less than optimal from many perspectives. But I suspect the prospect of a one party state is too corrupting on even sensible Tories, if they see it as a reality they will go crazy with power, and then some sensible opposition will benefit and things will return to normal as a result.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. kle4, whilst I'm less tolerant of DLC than you, I agree there's a line between legitimate and nonsense DLC (especially pay to win idiocy).

    I'm reminded of the videogame Goldeneye, where silly modes (like Big Head mode or Slappers Only in multiplayer) would probably be micro-transaction Satanism now.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2015

    Mr. Pong, this isn't support for tax credits, it's support for them as the first preference of several options, two of which are almost guaranteed to get a lot of support from those on both left and right.

    It's like me asking whether people would like to sleep with Olivia Wilde, Jennifer Morrison, neither or both. The option for Jennifer Morrison would probably get low single digits. That doesn't mean 3% of men [or women] would want to sleep with her. It's misleading to read it that way.

    oh, for sure - 88% support cutting stuff that doesn't affect them, or taxing people who aren't them. That's always going to be popular.

    But 8% supporting a government policy?

    A figure that low can't be spun as anything other than a disaster.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,709
    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    The tax credits question in the poll is disengenuous and close to push polling. There options are to cut welfare, to increase taxes or to increase borrowing. If the question were phrased should the £12bn in welfare cuts be replaced by a 3p raise in the 20p rate of tax or by increased borrowing, the result would be very different.

    I am becoming more convinced, in the absense of evidence to the contrary, that the opposition to tax credit changes is because they know that the changes will be effective in weaning large numbers of people off the teat of the client state.
  • O/T I've just been to my local library and asked the librarian if she had a book on Pavlov's dog and Schrödinger's cat.

    She said it rang a bell but wasn't sure if it was there or not.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. Pong, one doesn't need to spin it.

    If I had 1,000 people rank four attractive celebrities, picking just one each for a night, then even an attractive, famous person might get just 8%. That doesn't mean only 8% want to sleep with that celebrity.

    The figures there are worthless.

    Anyway, I must be off.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    You know as well as we do that Corbyn Labour are doomed.

    May I remind you of your quote to me at PB do "EdM ten more years". You knew in your bones it was cobblers then too.
    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

  • Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    Who needs polls when we have JackW telling us Corbyn will never be Prime Minister
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,997
    felix said:

    Barnesian said:

    Just for fun: Electoral Calculus on these numbers shows:

    Con 321 (-10)
    Lab 242 (+10)
    LD 8 (-)
    UKIP 1 (-)
    Grn 1 (-)
    SNP 56 (-)

    Con 5 short of majority.

    Once you factor in the differential turnouts for region/age/urban-rural the Tories could possibly increase their majority :)
    And that is old boundaries.

    With padded electoral rolls....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    This poll still has the Tories 1% up on the election and Labour doing worse than Kinnock in 1992 so is nothing for Corbyn to crow about. Indeed the Comres polls for the Independent give the Tories bigger leads than those for the Mail like this one. Interestingly a plurality of voters want overseas aid cut to protect tax credits for low paid workers, a policy actually to Osborne's right and backed by UKIP
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    kle4 said:

    Excellent poll for the Tories.

    Keeps Agent Corbyn in place.

    Indeed. If this trend continued then it's a bit more unlikely that Tax Credits Osbo will succeed to the leadership.
    So soon? He's only seemed credible as an option for about 6 months, poor chap.

    FPT

    Mr. D, I share your revulsion at DLC (although did like The Witcher 3 throwing 16 free pieces out).

    I think there's about a year from Dragon Age Inquisition's original release to the GOTY version, and about a year and a half (after checking) of the equivalent for Skyrim.

    Suppose it depends if the price drops quickly or not. It'd be annoying to wait a year, get a cut-price version, then have the GOTY be announced the following week.

    I am happy with certain kinds of DLC. Big, expansive updates that add content to a great game some way down the line, I am happy to pay for - for certain of those, even for big companies, I am willing to accept they may not have finalised the work on them if the game itself did not sell well, and if the intent is to enhance the game, not substitute for a half baked experience in the original game. I was quite happy to pay for some Mass Effect Dragon Age and Fallout DLC (not all, they've had the shadier kind too). It felt like the kind you want, but don't need. It's still motivated by money, but I'm at least getting something for it to enhance what I like, not because it's the only way to enjoy the game properly.
    Quite. Paid DLC a year down the line that adds new worlds, missions or characters can rejuvenate an old title for less than the price of a new game.

    The more recent trend of shipping games unfinished then charging extra *for what they should have been in the first place* is somewhat less than satisfactory.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    We're not celebrating. We're just not worried about polls five years from the next election when the opposition is a complete mess. As for lacking cognition, we're not the party that elected Jeremy Corbyn as their Prime Ministerial candidate.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421
    edited October 2015
    The important point for Osborne on Tax credits is to get the pain in right now. If he delays for say 3 years then that COULD have an effect on the next GE.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,709

    You know as well as we do that Corbyn Labour are doomed.

    May I remind you of your quote to me at PB do "EdM ten more years". You knew in your bones it was cobblers then too.

    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    As you know very well I was being sarcastic. It was clear from the 2010 leadership campaign that Ed did not cut the mustard.

    On Corbyn, who knows where we will all be in five years. I would be surprised if he is planning to stick around that long.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    edited October 2015

    Exclusive: Left-wing mob forces Scottish Tories to cancel conference on police advice. https://t.co/6xOMflXXXW

    Don't the idiots understand that mob rule really doesn't benefit their cause? This should have been obvious after what happened in Manchester only a few weeks ago.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    felix said:

    I'm not sure Mike can draw that conclusion. Respondents were only given the option to approve of one of the options (or signify their top priority). There may well be many who think the UK spends too much on aid but would like tax credits cut too.

    Quite - ComRes supplementaries have always been pretty suspect.
    'Stop the world I want to get off' supplementaries.
    'I'd rather see more babies die in Africa than see a drop from 6 to 5 out of 10 families with children receiving tax credits (but still benefitting from lower tax and higher pay)' supplementaries.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    HYUFD said:

    This poll still has the Tories 1% up on the election and Labour doing worse than Kinnock in 1992 so is nothing for Corbyn to crow about. Indeed the Comres polls for the Independent give the Tories bigger leads than those for the Mail like this one. Interestingly a plurality of voters want overseas aid cut to protect tax credits for low paid workers, a policy actually to Osborne's right and backed by UKIP

    To be fair it hasn't been Corbyn doing the crowing - OGh doing it for him :)
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    JEO said:

    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    We're not celebrating. We're just not worried about polls five years from the next election when the opposition is a complete mess. As for lacking cognition, we're not the party that elected Jeremy Corbyn as their Prime Ministerial candidate.
    Cue Jonathan's inevitable post that 'the Tories are missing the Lib Dems'.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    kle4 said:

    antifrank said:

    Because the Guardian simply hasn't been getting enough clicks recently:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/29/time-to-do-away-with-manhood

    Masterful stuff - the headline and summaryline alone is enough to get blood boiling the world over, they will be very pleased.
    The thing is, I don't think this clickbait stuff is just trolling. It genuinely persuades the less intelligent on the left, and ends up with them electing left-wing extremists as leader.

    It's the flip side of how Fox News has made the Republicans unelectable in America.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    edited October 2015

    O/T I've just been to my local library and asked the librarian if she had a book on Pavlov's dog and Schrödinger's cat.

    She said it rang a bell but wasn't sure if it was there or not.

    :+1: Very good, one to remember for a boring meeting!
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    felix said:

    HYUFD said:

    This poll still has the Tories 1% up on the election and Labour doing worse than Kinnock in 1992 so is nothing for Corbyn to crow about. Indeed the Comres polls for the Independent give the Tories bigger leads than those for the Mail like this one. Interestingly a plurality of voters want overseas aid cut to protect tax credits for low paid workers, a policy actually to Osborne's right and backed by UKIP

    To be fair it hasn't been Corbyn doing the crowing - OGh doing it for him :)
    It is getting a bit obsessive. I doubt anyone can conclude anything until after the EU referendum. But then again that is getting everyone all worked up based on no knowledge at all.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sarcasm apart - trying to pretend Corbyn isn't a disaster is laughable. Changing your avatar to No Right Turn made me wince. You're only a bit more Blairite than me.
    Jonathan said:

    You know as well as we do that Corbyn Labour are doomed.

    May I remind you of your quote to me at PB do "EdM ten more years". You knew in your bones it was cobblers then too.

    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    As you know very well I was being sarcastic. It was clear from the 2010 leadership campaign that Ed did not cut the mustard.

    On Corbyn, who knows where we will all be in five years. I would be surprised if he is planning to stick around that long.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    edited October 2015
    felix said:

    HYUFD said:

    This poll still has the Tories 1% up on the election and Labour doing worse than Kinnock in 1992 so is nothing for Corbyn to crow about. Indeed the Comres polls for the Independent give the Tories bigger leads than those for the Mail like this one. Interestingly a plurality of voters want overseas aid cut to protect tax credits for low paid workers, a policy actually to Osborne's right and backed by UKIP

    To be fair it hasn't been Corbyn doing the crowing - OGh doing it for him :)
    OGH should remember even Foot and IDS and Hague had a few poll leads something Corbyn has yet to achieve
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    This seems like a huge overstep:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11964655/Police-to-be-granted-powers-to-view-your-internet-history.html

    Police are to get the power to view the web browsing history of everyone in the country.
    Home Secretary Theresa May will announce the plans when she introduces the Government's new surveillance bill in the House of Commons on Wednesday.

    The Telegraph understands the new powers for the police will form part of the new bill.

    It would make it a legal requirement for communications companies to retain all the web browsing history of customers for 12 months in case the spy agencies or police need to access them.

    Police would be able to access specific web addresses visited by customers.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Everything is bad for the Tories. Didn't you get the Good News hubris memo?

    We're not allowed a win.

    felix said:

    HYUFD said:

    This poll still has the Tories 1% up on the election and Labour doing worse than Kinnock in 1992 so is nothing for Corbyn to crow about. Indeed the Comres polls for the Independent give the Tories bigger leads than those for the Mail like this one. Interestingly a plurality of voters want overseas aid cut to protect tax credits for low paid workers, a policy actually to Osborne's right and backed by UKIP

    To be fair it hasn't been Corbyn doing the crowing - OGh doing it for him :)
    It is getting a bit obsessive. I doubt anyone can conclude anything until after the EU referendum. But then again that is getting everyone all worked up based on no knowledge at all.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    It's a good job Pavlov didn't have a cat.
    Pavlov's cat results:
    Day 1: rang bell - cat fucked off. Daa.
    Day 2: rang bell - cat went and answered door.
    Day 3: rang bell - cat said he'd eaten earlier.
    Day 4: went to ring bell on day 4 but cat had stolen batteries.
    Final day - day 5: went to ring bell with new batteries, but cat put his paw on bell - so it only made a thunk noise. Then cat rang his own bell. I ate food."
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=whwiMrBNWCA
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    JEO said:

    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    We're not celebrating. We're just not worried about polls five years from the next election when the opposition is a complete mess. As for lacking cognition, we're not the party that elected Jeremy Corbyn as their Prime Ministerial candidate.
    I'm quite happy that Corbyn's Labour have yet to completely implode in the polls. If he were on 25% and falling then they'd want to get rid of him sooner! If he can say at 30% for a couple of years then, like Gordon and Ed before him, Corbyn is safe until the election.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I am becoming more convinced, in the absense of evidence to the contrary, that the opposition to tax credit changes is because they know that the changes will be effective in weaning large numbers of people off the teat of the client state. ''

    The point has not really been made that, if you want tax credits, you effectively have to go cap in hand to the government for your own money. People don;t like this. They would rather cut out the form filling, negotiating with idiot civil servants etc and have the money.

    No wonder the left is gambling all its political capital in trying to stop this.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :lol:

    It's a good job Pavlov didn't have a cat.

    Pavlov's cat results:
    Day 1: rang bell - cat fucked off. Daa.
    Day 2: rang bell - cat went and answered door.
    Day 3: rang bell - cat said he'd eaten earlier.
    Day 4: went to ring bell on day 4 but cat had stolen batteries.
    Final day - day 5: went to ring bell with new batteries, but cat put his paw on bell - so it only made a thunk noise. Then cat rang his own bell. I ate food."
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=whwiMrBNWCA

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    PBs North of Britain contributors seem a little slow in defending the actions of the SNP front line supporters
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,709

    Sarcasm apart - trying to pretend Corbyn isn't a disaster is laughable. Changing your avatar to No Right Turn made me wince. You're only a bit more Blairite than me.

    Jonathan said:

    You know as well as we do that Corbyn Labour are doomed.

    May I remind you of your quote to me at PB do "EdM ten more years". You knew in your bones it was cobblers then too.

    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    As you know very well I was being sarcastic. It was clear from the 2010 leadership campaign that Ed did not cut the mustard.

    On Corbyn, who knows where we will all be in five years. I would be surprised if he is planning to stick around that long.

    Who's pretending anything. Like most people I am watching and trying to understand an unusual political development.

    Whilst you focus on his limited reach on the right, that is not the whole story. The way he has engaged large numbers of people is genuinely interesting.

    I doubt he will lead Labour into 2020 and suspect that will be his own choice.

    Will be fascinating.



  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Following on the previous discussion of using the "quote" option - can you use this on your browser?

    PBs North of Britain contributors seem a little slow in defending the actions of the SNP front line supporters

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,686

    felix said:

    Barnesian said:

    Just for fun: Electoral Calculus on these numbers shows:

    Con 321 (-10)
    Lab 242 (+10)
    LD 8 (-)
    UKIP 1 (-)
    Grn 1 (-)
    SNP 56 (-)

    Con 5 short of majority.

    Once you factor in the differential turnouts for region/age/urban-rural the Tories could possibly increase their majority :)
    And that is old boundaries.

    With padded electoral rolls....
    Electoral Calculus gives a Con an overall majority of 10 on the 600 seats (proposed in 2013).

    So the change in boundaries and reduction in seats increases the Con majority by 20 from -10 to +10 (according to Electoral Calculus).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421
    JEO said:

    This seems like a huge overstep:
    It would make it a legal requirement for communications companies to retain all the web browsing history of customers for 12 months in case the spy agencies or police need to access them.

    Communications companies are going to love that requirement !

  • JEO said:

    This seems like a huge overstep:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11964655/Police-to-be-granted-powers-to-view-your-internet-history.html

    Police are to get the power to view the web browsing history of everyone in the country.
    Home Secretary Theresa May will announce the plans when she introduces the Government's new surveillance bill in the House of Commons on Wednesday.

    The Telegraph understands the new powers for the police will form part of the new bill.

    It would make it a legal requirement for communications companies to retain all the web browsing history of customers for 12 months in case the spy agencies or police need to access them.

    Police would be able to access specific web addresses visited by customers.

    I think that's in line with phone data isn't it?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    "Limited reach" - you mean unelectable.

    Let's call a spade a diversity of vibrant opinion that we should celebrate.
    Jonathan said:

    Sarcasm apart - trying to pretend Corbyn isn't a disaster is laughable. Changing your avatar to No Right Turn made me wince. You're only a bit more Blairite than me.

    Jonathan said:

    You know as well as we do that Corbyn Labour are doomed.

    May I remind you of your quote to me at PB do "EdM ten more years". You knew in your bones it was cobblers then too.

    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    As you know very well I was being sarcastic. It was clear from the 2010 leadership campaign that Ed did not cut the mustard.

    On Corbyn, who knows where we will all be in five years. I would be surprised if he is planning to stick around that long.

    Who's pretending anything. Like most people I am watching and trying to understand an unusual political development.

    Whilst you focus on his limited reach on the right, that is not the whole story. The way he has engaged large numbers of people is genuinely interesting.

    I doubt he will lead Labour into 2020 and suspect that will be his own choice.

    Will be fascinating.



  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,709

    "Limited reach" - you mean unelectable.

    Let's call a spade a diversity of vibrant opinion that we should celebrate.

    Jonathan said:

    Sarcasm apart - trying to pretend Corbyn isn't a disaster is laughable. Changing your avatar to No Right Turn made me wince. You're only a bit more Blairite than me.

    Jonathan said:

    You know as well as we do that Corbyn Labour are doomed.

    May I remind you of your quote to me at PB do "EdM ten more years". You knew in your bones it was cobblers then too.

    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    As you know very well I was being sarcastic. It was clear from the 2010 leadership campaign that Ed did not cut the mustard.

    On Corbyn, who knows where we will all be in five years. I would be surprised if he is planning to stick around that long.

    Who's pretending anything. Like most people I am watching and trying to understand an unusual political development.

    Whilst you focus on his limited reach on the right, that is not the whole story. The way he has engaged large numbers of people is genuinely interesting.

    I doubt he will lead Labour into 2020 and suspect that will be his own choice.

    Will be fascinating.



    eh?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited October 2015
    "Don't the idiots understand that mob rule really doesn't benefit their cause?"

    I doubt if they care. In Monty Python World, you've got to really really hate the Romans. Virtue signalling is more important than persuading others.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Sandpit said:

    JEO said:

    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    We're not celebrating. We're just not worried about polls five years from the next election when the opposition is a complete mess. As for lacking cognition, we're not the party that elected Jeremy Corbyn as their Prime Ministerial candidate.
    I'm quite happy that Corbyn's Labour have yet to completely implode in the polls. If he were on 25% and falling then they'd want to get rid of him sooner! If he can say at 30% for a couple of years then, like Gordon and Ed before him, Corbyn is safe until the election.
    IDS polled around 30 to 35%. It was coming third in the Brent East by election which did for him, he polled about what Howard got in 2005. Labour coming third in a by election behind UKIP would be the most likely catalyst for Corbyn's fall
  • Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    We are a happy, positive bunch, you are right. Especially those of us whose evidence of cognition went into our bank accounts in May.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    After 18yrs of detesting Labour, I was persuaded to give them another go. Golly, do I regret that. My floating voter demographic won those elections for Tony.

    Anyone of my age [mid 40s] who was wary before simply won't do so again. This is a crucial factor that Corbynism makes absurd in electoral terms. His version of winning simply doesn't make the cut.
    CD13 said:

    "Don't the idiots understand that mob rule really doesn't benefit their cause?"

    I doubt if they care. In Monty Python World, you've got to really really hate the Romans. Virtue signalling is more important than persuading others.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,988
    Mike

    "ComRes Mail poll finds just 8% saying government should go ahead with Osborne's tax credits plan"

    Which compares with this site where the figure must be nearer 100%
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,842

    agingjb said:

    Elected Tory one-party state for the foreseeable future. A quarter of the electorate unrepresented in the Commons. How will it end?

    It will end with the Tories singing Tomorrow belongs to me
    Damn you! I'm going to have that song going round my head all afternoon now, and it's really not an appropriate one to absent-mindedly start humming!
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    JEO said:

    This seems like a huge overstep:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11964655/Police-to-be-granted-powers-to-view-your-internet-history.html

    Police are to get the power to view the web browsing history of everyone in the country.
    Home Secretary Theresa May will announce the plans when she introduces the Government's new surveillance bill in the House of Commons on Wednesday.

    The Telegraph understands the new powers for the police will form part of the new bill.

    It would make it a legal requirement for communications companies to retain all the web browsing history of customers for 12 months in case the spy agencies or police need to access them.

    Police would be able to access specific web addresses visited by customers.

    I think that's in line with phone data isn't it?
    I think it's more intrusive than phone data. Without a warrant, every police force in the country can look up what naughty websites suspects have been visiting. That is very dangerous in risking abuse and blackmail.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,842
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    JEO said:

    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    We're not celebrating. We're just not worried about polls five years from the next election when the opposition is a complete mess. As for lacking cognition, we're not the party that elected Jeremy Corbyn as their Prime Ministerial candidate.
    I'm quite happy that Corbyn's Labour have yet to completely implode in the polls. If he were on 25% and falling then they'd want to get rid of him sooner! If he can say at 30% for a couple of years then, like Gordon and Ed before him, Corbyn is safe until the election.
    IDS polled around 30 to 35%. It was coming third in the Brent East by election which did for him, he polled about what Howard got in 2005. Labour coming third in a by election behind UKIP would be the most likely catalyst for Corbyn's fall
    The Tories and Labour have fundamentally different systems and, even more crucially, cultures relating to the removal of leaders.

    In any case, Labour *did* come third behind UKIP in Newark and Miliband stayed.
  • JEO said:

    Without a warrant, every police force in the country can look up what naughty websites suspects have been visiting.

    Why do you think that is the proposal?
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Corbyn doesn't have a chance of winning an election but he's been surprisingly good at PMQs, he clearly got the better of Cameron this week.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    edited October 2015

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    JEO said:

    Jonathan said:

    If the polls go up, Tories celebrate. If the polls go down, Tories celebrate.

    Conclusion: They're a happy bunch, probably still celebrating May, but there's little evidence of cognition.

    We're not celebrating. We're just not worried about polls five years from the next election when the opposition is a complete mess. As for lacking cognition, we're not the party that elected Jeremy Corbyn as their Prime Ministerial candidate.
    I'm quite happy that Corbyn's Labour have yet to completely implode in the polls. If he were on 25% and falling then they'd want to get rid of him sooner! If he can say at 30% for a couple of years then, like Gordon and Ed before him, Corbyn is safe until the election.
    IDS polled around 30 to 35%. It was coming third in the Brent East by election which did for him, he polled about what Howard got in 2005. Labour coming third in a by election behind UKIP would be the most likely catalyst for Corbyn's fall
    The Tories and Labour have fundamentally different systems and, even more crucially, cultures relating to the removal of leaders.

    In any case, Labour *did* come third behind UKIP in Newark and Miliband stayed.
    Hague lost Romsey in a by election and stayed but by IDS they had lost patience. If Labour come third in a by election in a northern Labour seat or a marginal they held until 2010 it will be curtains for Corbyn
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Cobblers - he did an EdM. Asked 6 identical questions and gave Cameron an open goal to spout PR lines.

    Only those desperate to make a story saw it as a win.

    Corbyn doesn't have a chance of winning an election but he's been surprisingly good at PMQs, he clearly got the better of Cameron this week.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421
    Paddy are 6-5 Corbyn; 8-13 the field for leader at next election. Whilst I don't think theres much value in either price, it's an interesting market.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Roger said:

    Mike

    "ComRes Mail poll finds just 8% saying government should go ahead with Osborne's tax credits plan"

    Which compares with this site where the figure must be nearer 100%

    Nearer to 100% than 8%, sure. I'd guess it's 50-60% if you include Tories who might think they are a good idea, but shouldn't be done now or in this way for political reasons.
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