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  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited October 2015
    What squeeze on the BBC..I work there a lot and will be the week after next...not noticed any squeezes...
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:


    I have come across some strange comments in today’s FT regarding dismay of some Labour moderates at Corbyn’s appointment of Seumas Milne . A quote held against the latter from 2004 is ‘killings of ”occupation troops” in Iraq pale next to the toll inflicted by the (US/UK) occupiers’. Surely what he said was self-evident. Is it seriously suggested that people living in a country that has been the victim of an unprovoked attack have no right to resist their attackers? Would these people have said the same thing about the French Resistance attacking German troops in World War 2? Hypocritical idiots!

    I'm not entirely convinced of the moral equivalence between the USA and UK on the one hand, and Nazi Germany on the other.
    Both were aggressors - and the victims of aggression were entitled to resist. There is a strong legal case for arguing that the French Resistance was less justified on two grounds. Firstly France and Britain had declared war on Germany - and secondly the French Government had agreed an Armistice in June 1940. In contrast, Iraq had not declared war on the UK/US and no Armistice agreement had been signed.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    Another excellent David H article - he could make a decent living writing for a professional magazine for money and we're lucky to have him.

    The only thing I'd add is that even sophisticated observers see people as non-Presidential until they get within a shout of winning, when suddenly they look plausible. David cites Kennedy, I'd also point to Reagan, who in his own terms was hugely successful but the pundits always struggled to take seriously even after he'd won. So although I don't rate Carson either (he's a bright surgeon who has mistakenly strayed into politics), I think it's a mistake to rule him out. People get used to unusual characters.

    Is too late for a fresh challenger? Probably. The organisation and potential funding has to be largely in place by now. It's just about viable to have donors who say they'll only donate big time if you win New Hampshire, but if you don't have an embryonic national network now, you've missed the bus. But all the Republicans except Trump are just one bad debating mistake away from meltdown, so plumping heavily for anyone looks risky - the strategy of laying the favourite du jour but betting on a GOP victory may be the best for the time being.

    Cheers for the compliment. I am considering a career change at the moment so your judgement is particularly valued right now. Do you have any tips on how I'd go about writing professionally?
    First get a good agent, David.
    Nick was talking about writing for magazines - is that the same process?

    And how does one go about getting a good agent?

    Help!
    I just noticed this.

    I think there is plenty of info out there on literary agents. The trick is to get a good one that will take an interest in you, David.

    Perhaps SeanT can help you there as he seems to have found a good agent.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited October 2015
    Roger said:

    "Well tax credits aren't fair because I can't get them because I don't work......." So said a man from Rotherham on 'Any Answers'

    I can't believe I've just wasted ten minutes listening to the rubbish that passes for a current affairs 'phone-in'. If anyone wants evidence that the governments squeeze on the BBC is having an effect look no further than the researchers on 'Any Questions'.

    Or its just you waking up to the notion that the BBC can be quite shit in quality at times.

    Break up the BBC and privatise the whole thing. Let it compete or sink.

    EDIT: Only in the lefts mind could "the BBC is crap here, lets give it more money" make logical sense.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    david herdson...get a copy of The Writers and Artists Yearbook..that might help..
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    justin124 said:

    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:


    I have come across some strange comments in today’s FT regarding dismay of some Labour moderates at Corbyn’s appointment of Seumas Milne . A quote held against the latter from 2004 is ‘killings of ”occupation troops” in Iraq pale next to the toll inflicted by the (US/UK) occupiers’. Surely what he said was self-evident. Is it seriously suggested that people living in a country that has been the victim of an unprovoked attack have no right to resist their attackers? Would these people have said the same thing about the French Resistance attacking German troops in World War 2? Hypocritical idiots!

    I'm not entirely convinced of the moral equivalence between the USA and UK on the one hand, and Nazi Germany on the other.
    Both were aggressors - and the victims of aggression were entitled to resist. There is a strong legal case for arguing that the French Resistance was less justified on two grounds. Firstly France and Britain had declared war on Germany - and secondly the French Government had agreed an Armistice in June 1940. In contrast, Iraq had not declared war on the UK/US and no Armistice agreement had been signed.
    Yeah the Labour party should push this line hard. That'll win them the next election.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:


    I have come across some strange comments in today’s FT regarding dismay of some Labour moderates at Corbyn’s appointment of Seumas Milne . A quote held against the latter from 2004 is ‘killings of ”occupation troops” in Iraq pale next to the toll inflicted by the (US/UK) occupiers’. Surely what he said was self-evident. Is it seriously suggested that people living in a country that has been the victim of an unprovoked attack have no right to resist their attackers? Would these people have said the same thing about the French Resistance attacking German troops in World War 2? Hypocritical idiots!

    I'm not entirely convinced of the moral equivalence between the USA and UK on the one hand, and Nazi Germany on the other.
    Both were aggressors - and the victims of aggression were entitled to resist. There is a strong legal case for arguing that the French Resistance was less justified on two grounds. Firstly France and Britain had declared war on Germany - and secondly the French Government had agreed an Armistice in June 1940. In contrast, Iraq had not declared war on the UK/US and no Armistice agreement had been signed.
    Yeah the Labour party should push this line hard. That'll win them the next election.
    I think the idea of putting Blair on trial would win votes!
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Roger maybe you could get Justin124 a job as a current affairs researcher..should be fun..
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Who with?
    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:


    I have come across some strange comments in today’s FT regarding dismay of some Labour moderates at Corbyn’s appointment of Seumas Milne . A quote held against the latter from 2004 is ‘killings of ”occupation troops” in Iraq pale next to the toll inflicted by the (US/UK) occupiers’. Surely what he said was self-evident. Is it seriously suggested that people living in a country that has been the victim of an unprovoked attack have no right to resist their attackers? Would these people have said the same thing about the French Resistance attacking German troops in World War 2? Hypocritical idiots!

    I'm not entirely convinced of the moral equivalence between the USA and UK on the one hand, and Nazi Germany on the other.
    Both were aggressors - and the victims of aggression were entitled to resist. There is a strong legal case for arguing that the French Resistance was less justified on two grounds. Firstly France and Britain had declared war on Germany - and secondly the French Government had agreed an Armistice in June 1940. In contrast, Iraq had not declared war on the UK/US and no Armistice agreement had been signed.
    Yeah the Labour party should push this line hard. That'll win them the next election.
    I think the idea of putting Blair on trial would win votes!
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Plato..The current opposition front bench
  • The 2011 Budget was when Osborne proclaimed the 'March of the Makers'.

    From the ONS:

    Manufacturing output:

    2011q2 101.8
    2015q2 101.5

    Retail Sales:

    2011q2 100.0
    2015q2 112.0

    Government Debt:

    2011q2 £1,135bn
    2015q2 £1,513bn

    Current Account deficit:

    2011q2 £0.586bn
    2015q2 £16.767bn

    Surely those hundreds of billions of borrowed money could have been used more sensibly than in funding another consumer bubble of imported tat.

    No because as is standard operating procedure for you, you're just point blank ignoring the fact there was a deficit to tackle and acting as if the hundreds of "billions of borrowed money" could have been avoided by eliminating the deficit in one day. Nobody credible has or could propose that.

    The Current Account Deficit meanwhile is symptomatic of our success in an era of other nations struggling. If we are growing healthily, while our trading partners are floundering (as has been the case) then it is somewhat inevitable that we will import more and export relatively less. In 2011 the Eurozone crisis was supposed to have been resolved by now while the Chinese slowdown was not predicted.

    Finally the notion that economic growth is underpinned by just imports is economically impossible. Economically: Y = C + I + G + (X-M)

    Y is GDP, M is imports. For every £1 increase in imports GDP goes down by £1 by definition. So our sustained growth from 2012 onwards has happened despite, not because, of the change in the current account deficit.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited October 2015
    The electorate at large. Blair is discredited and widely perceived to have misled both Parliament and the public. Why would it not be popular?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. Dodd, I've got an old copy of that.

    I'm not sure how applicable that is for magazine contributions, or if it's only for books (both fiction and non-fiction).
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    Apart from the Blair haters, who already lurve Corbyn, I can't see [m]any going for this. I absolutely do not think we've had any PM or CabMin anywhere near a war crime.

    For anyone interested in WMD from WW1, there's an excellent Time Team on Livens Flamethrower - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/on-demand/49039-002

    It was banned post WW1.

    Plato..The current opposition front bench

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    MD It depends..there might be an agent in there that deals with mags..I have a current copy but I have not scoured that area..mainly because I have no need to...but David might be able to lean something from it.. maybe in the magazine section..see who the commissioners are..
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. Dodd, ah, didn't even know there was a magazine section (been a while since I looked at it).

    Miss Plato, n00bs. There was a flamethrower used by the Boeotians at the Battle of Delium in 424 BC:
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/siege-engines.html
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited October 2015

    Apart from the Blair haters, who already lurve Corbyn, I can't see [m]any going for this. I absolutely do not think we've had any PM or CabMin anywhere near a war crime.

    For anyone interested in WMD from WW1, there's an excellent Time Team on Livens Flamethrower - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/on-demand/49039-002

    It was banned post WW1.

    Plato..The current opposition front bench

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    F1: seems P3 is delayed.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    The final segment of that prog has a replica of Livens made by the Royal Engineers - it burns the eyebrows off the presenters at 150ft away - quite terrifying. It shoots burning gasoline 300ft.

    Mr. Dodd, ah, didn't even know there was a magazine section (been a while since I looked at it).

    Miss Plato, n00bs. There was a flamethrower used by the Boeotians at the Battle of Delium in 424 BC:
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/siege-engines.html

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited October 2015
    justin124 said:

    Apart from the Blair haters, who already lurve Corbyn, I can't see [m]any going for this. I absolutely do not think we've had any PM or CabMin anywhere near a war crime.

    For anyone interested in WMD from WW1, there's an excellent Time Team on Livens Flamethrower - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/on-demand/49039-002

    It was banned post WW1.

    Plato..The current opposition front bench

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.
    You seriously think that those convicted of the Holocaust and other war crimes are less guilty than Blair/Bush for removing a dictator that put his own citizens through meat grinders while alive as a form of execution? Feet first to maximise suffering.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited October 2015
    MD..In the current edition there 144 pages devoted to Newspapers and Magazines...could be something in there.. worth the price of about 15 quid from amazon..equivalent to about 3 pints of beer in London...
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:


    I have come across some strange comments in today’s FT regarding dismay of some Labour moderates at Corbyn’s appointment of Seumas Milne . A quote held against the latter from 2004 is ‘killings of ”occupation troops” in Iraq pale next to the toll inflicted by the (US/UK) occupiers’. Surely what he said was self-evident. Is it seriously suggested that people living in a country that has been the victim of an unprovoked attack have no right to resist their attackers? Would these people have said the same thing about the French Resistance attacking German troops in World War 2? Hypocritical idiots!

    I'm not entirely convinced of the moral equivalence between the USA and UK on the one hand, and Nazi Germany on the other.
    Both were aggressors - and the victims of aggression were entitled to resist. There is a strong legal case for arguing that the French Resistance was less justified on two grounds. Firstly France and Britain had declared war on Germany - and secondly the French Government had agreed an Armistice in June 1940. In contrast, Iraq had not declared war on the UK/US and no Armistice agreement had been signed.
    Yeah the Labour party should push this line hard. That'll win them the next election.
    I think the idea of putting Blair on trial would win votes!
    Lol "Justin through the looking glass"
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Can’t believe no one has mentioned that on this day in 1360 - The Treaty of Brétigny was ratified at Calais, marking the end of the first phase of the Hundred Years' War.

    How quickly some forget :innocent:
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    HYUFD said:

    I think Corbyn's victory is symptomatic of a Labour Party membership putting ideology before electability, Republican voters seem to be in a similar mood, which is why Trump and Cruz are both contendors and Trump leads the polls.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Republican_National_Convention
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_1960

    No, that's not quite right, because ideologically Trump is all over the shop but probably to the left of the GOP most of the time. It is more easily classed as a reaction to the PPE/SpAd (or American equivalent) focus-group obsessed, triangulating Establishment. Corbyn, Sturgeon, Farage, Trump and Carson: it's not about ideology but about at least seeming to care about something.

    Many voted for Corbyn not because he was the most left wing candidate but because out of the four, he was the one who seemed human. Contrast him with Gordon Brown taking three days to work out which sort of biscuit to claim as his favourite, or Tony Blair's favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron's favourite team playing in claret and blue but is it West Ham or Aston Villa?

    But Trump is not a tea-partier. Half the time he's not even a Republican. This is probably why the pundits dismiss his chances: they figure out sooner or later the GOP grass roots will notice he's not really one of them. The evidence from this side of the Atlantic is that they are missing the point.
    I can agree with what you say about Trump, DJ. You are right that Trump is not a tea partier, however he is - in my opinion - closer to the GOP grass roots in outlook, and leaves the GOP bigwigs in his wake in his belief in a modern capitalism.

    So if Trump is not your common-or-garden republican, what is he? He is Trumpian astride an Elephant. Long may he trumpet his ideas and/or policies!
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm watching Part 2 of the Witch-Hunting docu on C5 - James I's book Demonology fueled the horrors that lasted 100yrs.

    Can’t believe no one has mentioned that on this day in 1360 - The Treaty of Brétigny was ratified at Calais, marking the end of the first phase of the Hundred Years' War.

    How quickly some forget :innocent:

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Nuremburg Trials, Germany invades Poland, September 1939, followed a couple of weeks later by USSR's invasion of Poland. No writs issued to try Stalin for planning for an aggressive war.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,746
    edited October 2015

    justin124 said:

    Apart from the Blair haters, who already lurve Corbyn, I can't see [m]any going for this. I absolutely do not think we've had any PM or CabMin anywhere near a war crime.

    For anyone interested in WMD from WW1, there's an excellent Time Team on Livens Flamethrower - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/on-demand/49039-002

    It was banned post WW1.

    Plato..The current opposition front bench

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.
    You seriously think that those convicted of the Holocaust and other war crimes are less guilty than Blair/Bush for removing a dictator that put his own citizens through meat grinders while alive as a form of execution? Feet first to maximise suffering.
    I may well be wrongf, but while Saddam was horrible, I don’t think any evidence of that happening was ever found.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I was taught nothing about the evils of Stalin, and barely saw a mention on TV. Yet bored stiff with Nazis.

    It's still hardly got a fraction of screentime.
    dr_spyn said:

    Nuremburg Trials, Germany invades Poland, September 1939, followed a couple of weeks later by USSR's invasion of Poland. No writs issued to try Stalin for planning for an aggressive war.

  • The 2011 Budget was when Osborne proclaimed the 'March of the Makers'.

    From the ONS:

    Manufacturing output:

    2011q2 101.8
    2015q2 101.5

    Retail Sales:

    2011q2 100.0
    2015q2 112.0

    Government Debt:

    2011q2 £1,135bn
    2015q2 £1,513bn

    Current Account deficit:

    2011q2 £0.586bn
    2015q2 £16.767bn

    Surely those hundreds of billions of borrowed money could have been used more sensibly than in funding another consumer bubble of imported tat.

    No because as is standard operating procedure for you, you're just point blank ignoring the fact there was a deficit to tackle and acting as if the hundreds of "billions of borrowed money" could have been avoided by eliminating the deficit in one day. Nobody credible has or could propose that.

    The Current Account Deficit meanwhile is symptomatic of our success in an era of other nations struggling. If we are growing healthily, while our trading partners are floundering (as has been the case) then it is somewhat inevitable that we will import more and export relatively less. In 2011 the Eurozone crisis was supposed to have been resolved by now while the Chinese slowdown was not predicted.

    Finally the notion that economic growth is underpinned by just imports is economically impossible. Economically: Y = C + I + G + (X-M)

    Y is GDP, M is imports. For every £1 increase in imports GDP goes down by £1 by definition. So our sustained growth from 2012 onwards has happened despite, not because, of the change in the current account deficit.
    Bleat, bleat, bleat.

    It wasn't me who proclaimed the 'March of the Makers', it was Osborne.

    The same Osborne who has now presided over THREE manufacturing recessions but who has pumped borrowed money into raising consumer spending and house prices.

    If Osborne had chosen he could have cut have cut taxes on business and especially energy, increased capital investment and rebalanced the economy.

    But he didn't, he preferred to pump up another housing / consumption bubble in order to buy votes.

    And the Current Account deficit isn't a sympton of the UK's 'success', its a consequence of the UK continually living well beyond its means funded by borrowed money. Always encouraged by governments which wish to keep the electorate voting for them.

    As to government borrowing its Osborne who set his borrowing targets and Osborne who has missed them.

    The only question is how much more will Osborne borrow than he originally said he would.

    Will it be three hundred billion ?
    Will it be four hundred billion ?
    Will it be half a trillion ?

    Whatever the number it will be Osborne's choice and Osborne's failure but everyone else's higher future tax payments.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Apart from the Blair haters, who already lurve Corbyn, I can't see [m]any going for this. I absolutely do not think we've had any PM or CabMin anywhere near a war crime.

    For anyone interested in WMD from WW1, there's an excellent Time Team on Livens Flamethrower - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/on-demand/49039-002

    It was banned post WW1.

    Plato..The current opposition front bench

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.
    You seriously think that those convicted of the Holocaust and other war crimes are less guilty than Blair/Bush for removing a dictator that put his own citizens through meat grinders while alive as a form of execution? Feet first to maximise suffering.
    I am referring to the specific indictment of 'Planning for War ' - not the other four relating to the Holocaust etc. Re-Nuremburg the principal decision makers in relation to the Holocaust were already dead - Hitler- Himmler - Heydrich. Few of those on trial had little ,if any , connection. Anyway Blair made out that 'regime change' was not the reason for invading Iraq - until WMD failed to turn up when he changed his tune. I am very surprised that so many here seriously believe that the Iraq War is anything other than extremely unpopular, and that any attempt to punish those responsible would not meet with widespread approval.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited October 2015
    Stalin invasion of Finland 1939. Annexation of Baltic States followed by deportations & executions 1940. Seizure of Bessarabia from Romania 1940.

    All actions by a progressive regime to defend its frontiers against The Nazi aggressors.


  • Bleat, bleat, bleat.

    It wasn't me who proclaimed the 'March of the Makers', it was Osborne.

    The same Osborne who has now presided over THREE manufacturing recessions but who has pumped borrowed money into raising consumer spending and house prices.

    If Osborne had chosen he could have cut have cut taxes on business and especially energy, increased capital investment and rebalanced the economy.

    But he didn't, he preferred to pump up another housing / consumption bubble in order to buy votes.

    And the Current Account deficit isn't a sympton of the UK's 'success', its a consequence of the UK continually living well beyond its means funded by borrowed money. Always encouraged by governments which wish to keep the electorate voting for them.

    As to government borrowing its Osborne who set his borrowing targets and Osborne who has missed them.

    The only question is how much more will Osborne borrow than he originally said he would.

    Will it be three hundred billion ?
    Will it be four hundred billion ?
    Will it be half a trillion ?

    Whatever the number it will be Osborne's choice and Osborne's failure but everyone else's higher future tax payments.

    It should also be remembered that back in 2007 and 2008 some of us were already saying that the UK was living well beyond its means, funded by borrowed money and with a dangerously unbalanced economy.

    Cameron and Osborne however were not saying that - they were planning on how they would spend 'the proceeds of growth'. Cheered on by the bleaters.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,431
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Apart from the Blair haters, who already lurve Corbyn, I can't see [m]any going for this. I absolutely do not think we've had any PM or CabMin anywhere near a war crime.

    For anyone interested in WMD from WW1, there's an excellent Time Team on Livens Flamethrower - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/on-demand/49039-002

    It was banned post WW1.

    Plato..The current opposition front bench

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.
    You seriously think that those convicted of the Holocaust and other war crimes are less guilty than Blair/Bush for removing a dictator that put his own citizens through meat grinders while alive as a form of execution? Feet first to maximise suffering.
    I am referring to the specific indictment of 'Planning for War ' - not the other four relating to the Holocaust etc. Re-Nuremburg the principal decision makers in relation to the Holocaust were already dead - Hitler- Himmler - Heydrich. Few of those on trial had little ,if any , connection. Anyway Blair made out that 'regime change' was not the reason for invading Iraq - until WMD failed to turn up when he changed his tune. I am very surprised that so many here seriously believe that the Iraq War is anything other than extremely unpopular, and that any attempt to punish those responsible would not meet with widespread approval.
    The question is not whether the war was morally wrong. The question certainly should not be whether it would be popular: we've had the noncefinder general denounce innocent citizens, and nobody raised a hand to stop him for far too long, cos it was popular. The question is simply a) was a crime committed, and b) is there sufficient evidence to conclude that this individual committed it? Like it or lump it the Iraq War was legal in UK law, so no crime, so no criminality.

  • justin124 said:

    Apart from the Blair haters, who already lurve Corbyn, I can't see [m]any going for this. I absolutely do not think we've had any PM or CabMin anywhere near a war crime.

    For anyone interested in WMD from WW1, there's an excellent Time Team on Livens Flamethrower - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/on-demand/49039-002

    It was banned post WW1.

    Plato..The current opposition front bench

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.
    You seriously think that those convicted of the Holocaust and other war crimes are less guilty than Blair/Bush for removing a dictator that put his own citizens through meat grinders while alive as a form of execution? Feet first to maximise suffering.
    I may well be wrongf, but while Saddam was horrible, I don’t think any evidence of that happening was ever found.
    Some doubt it happened but Ann Clwyd provided witnesses to it happening and witnesses to it happening spoke at the trial of Hussein.

    What is undeniable is that Hussein was horrible. To suggest removing him is worse than the Holocaust and other Nazi crimes as Justin has done is just sickening.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    F1: because of the dubious situation, I'm going to write the pre-qualifying piece now, likely without a tip, and then watch the rugby.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    Can you imagine Tom Watson if he'd been living in 1644? He'd be like Matthew Hopkins - our very own freelance witch finder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Hopkins
    Matthew Hopkins (c. 1620 – 12 August 1647) was an English witch-hunter whose career flourished during the time of the English Civil War. He claimed to hold the office of Witchfinder General, although that title was never bestowed by Parliament. His witch-hunts mainly took place in East Anglia.[1]
    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Apart from the Blair haters, who already lurve Corbyn, I can't see [m]any going for this. I absolutely do not think we've had any PM or CabMin anywhere near a war crime.

    For anyone interested in WMD from WW1, there's an excellent Time Team on Livens Flamethrower - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/on-demand/49039-002

    It was banned post WW1.

    Plato..The current opposition front bench

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.
    You seriously think that those convicted of the Holocaust and other war crimes are less guilty than Blair/Bush for removing a dictator that put his own citizens through meat grinders while alive as a form of execution? Feet first to maximise suffering.
    I am referring to the specific indictment of 'Planning for War ' - not the other four relating to the Holocaust etc. Re-Nuremburg the principal decision makers in relation to the Holocaust were already dead - Hitler- Himmler - Heydrich. Few of those on trial had little ,if any , connection. Anyway Blair made out that 'regime change' was not the reason for invading Iraq - until WMD failed to turn up when he changed his tune. I am very surprised that so many here seriously believe that the Iraq War is anything other than extremely unpopular, and that any attempt to punish those responsible would not meet with widespread approval.
    The question is not whether the war was morally wrong. The question certainly should not be whether it would be popular: we've had the noncefinder general denounce innocent citizens, and nobody raised a hand to stop him for far too long, cos it was popular. The question is simply a) was a crime committed, and b) is there sufficient evidence to conclude that this individual committed it? Like it or lump it the Iraq War was legal in UK law, so no crime, so no criminality.

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Apart from the Blair haters, who already lurve Corbyn, I can't see [m]any going for this. I absolutely do not think we've had any PM or CabMin anywhere near a war crime.

    For anyone interested in WMD from WW1, there's an excellent Time Team on Livens Flamethrower - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/on-demand/49039-002

    It was banned post WW1.

    Plato..The current opposition front bench

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.
    You seriously think that those convicted of the Holocaust and other war crimes are less guilty than Blair/Bush for removing a dictator that put his own citizens through meat grinders while alive as a form of execution? Feet first to maximise suffering.
    I am referring to the specific indictment of 'Planning for War ' - not the other four relating to the Holocaust etc. Re-Nuremburg the principal decision makers in relation to the Holocaust were already dead - Hitler- Himmler - Heydrich. Few of those on trial had little ,if any , connection. Anyway Blair made out that 'regime change' was not the reason for invading Iraq - until WMD failed to turn up when he changed his tune. I am very surprised that so many here seriously believe that the Iraq War is anything other than extremely unpopular, and that any attempt to punish those responsible would not meet with widespread approval.
    The question is not whether the war was morally wrong. The question certainly should not be whether it would be popular: we've had the noncefinder general denounce innocent citizens, and nobody raised a hand to stop him for far too long, cos it was popular. The question is simply a) was a crime committed, and b) is there sufficient evidence to conclude that this individual committed it? Like it or lump it the Iraq War was legal in UK law, so no crime, so no criminality.

    Was it legal in International Law? Doubtless the German attacks on Poland and USSR were legal under German law at the time. The vast majority of International Jurists appear to take the view that the 2003 attack was unlawful..
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    USSR planned to bomb London.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/russias-plan-drop-nuclear-bomb-6694903

    Though the whataboutary nonsense comes later in the Indy.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/russia-planned-to-drop-nuclear-bombs-on-london-in-the-cold-war-letter-says-a6707306.html

    Somehow context includes Putin and Assaad using barrel bombs in Syria.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    F1: a rather minimalist pre-qualifying piece:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/us-pre-qualifying.html
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Apart from the Blair haters, who already lurve Corbyn, I can't see [m]any going for this. I absolutely do not think we've had any PM or CabMin anywhere near a war crime.

    For anyone interested in WMD from WW1, there's an excellent Time Team on Livens Flamethrower - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/on-demand/49039-002

    It was banned post WW1.

    Plato..The current opposition front bench

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.
    You seriously think that those convicted of the Holocaust and other war crimes are less guilty than Blair/Bush for removing a dictator that put his own citizens through meat grinders while alive as a form of execution? Feet first to maximise suffering.
    I may well be wrongf, but while Saddam was horrible, I don’t think any evidence of that happening was ever found.
    Some doubt it happened but Ann Clwyd provided witnesses to it happening and witnesses to it happening spoke at the trial of Hussein.

    What is undeniable is that Hussein was horrible. To suggest removing him is worse than the Holocaust and other Nazi crimes as Justin has done is just sickening.
    I have not actually said any such thing! Why not try and read my comments rather than mentally expanding them to align with your own thought processes?
  • Bleat, bleat, bleat.

    It wasn't me who proclaimed the 'March of the Makers', it was Osborne.

    The same Osborne who has now presided over THREE manufacturing recessions but who has pumped borrowed money into raising consumer spending and house prices.

    If Osborne had chosen he could have cut have cut taxes on business and especially energy, increased capital investment and rebalanced the economy.

    He should have cut taxes on business?

    2010/11 Corporation Tax Rate: 28%
    2015/16 Corporation Tax Rate: 20%

    And its being cut further.
  • justin124 said:

    I have not actually said any such thing! Why not try and read my comments rather than mentally expanding them to align with your own thought processes?

    Bull.
    justin124 said:

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.

    You're delusional or a troll if you think Blair/Bush are more guilty than Nazis.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,431
    edited October 2015

    Can you imagine Tom Watson if he'd been living in 1644?

    Unfortunately, yes. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party! (pauses and turns to a stuned, silent audience)

    He'd be like Matthew Hopkins - our very own freelance witch finder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Hopkins

    S'OK, i'd already remembered. From the film, not the historical personage, I hasten to add. I was not alive in the 17th century. That would obviously be silly talk (backs away nervously, mutters "damm, that was close...too close" sotto voce)

    EDIT: put BLOCKQUOTE tag in correct place
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    edited October 2015
    F1: P3 to go ahead on schedule, 15 mins from now. It's wet, very wet.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,562
    justin124 said:

    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:


    I have come across some strange comments in today’s FT regarding dismay of some Labour moderates at Corbyn’s appointment of Seumas Milne . A quote held against the latter from 2004 is ‘killings of ”occupation troops” in Iraq pale next to the toll inflicted by the (US/UK) occupiers’. Surely what he said was self-evident. Is it seriously suggested that people living in a country that has been the victim of an unprovoked attack have no right to resist their attackers? Would these people have said the same thing about the French Resistance attacking German troops in World War 2? Hypocritical idiots!

    I'm not entirely convinced of the moral equivalence between the USA and UK on the one hand, and Nazi Germany on the other.
    Both were aggressors - and the victims of aggression were entitled to resist. There is a strong legal case for arguing that the French Resistance was less justified on two grounds. Firstly France and Britain had declared war on Germany - and secondly the French Government had agreed an Armistice in June 1940. In contrast, Iraq had not declared war on the UK/US and no Armistice agreement had been signed.
    The "victims" you refer to were and are those who claim the right to murder, rape, torture, and rob their countrymen.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited October 2015

    justin124 said:

    I have not actually said any such thing! Why not try and read my comments rather than mentally expanding them to align with your own thought processes?

    Bull.
    justin124 said:

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.

    You're delusional or a troll if you think Blair/Bush are more guilty than Nazis.
    Again in terms of Planning for War - in the sense of intending to wage war - who among the main Nuremburg defendants was more guilty than Blair/Bush in 2003? I refer to Ribbentrop as a possibility - but even he did not have executive authority. Goering was involved with the Anschluss in March 1938 but strongly opposed to war in 1939.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,431
    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:



    The question is not whether the war was morally wrong. The question certainly should not be whether it would be popular: we've had the noncefinder general denounce innocent citizens, and nobody raised a hand to stop him for far too long, cos it was popular. The question is simply a) was a crime committed, and b) is there sufficient evidence to conclude that this individual committed it? Like it or lump it the Iraq War was legal in UK law, so no crime, so no criminality.

    Was it legal in International Law? Doubtless the German attacks on Poland and USSR were legal under German law at the time. The vast majority of International Jurists appear to take the view that the 2003 attack was unlawful..
    Was it legal in international law? Possibly (there are those that argue it does), possibly not (ditto). My (admittedly minority) view is that international law doesn't trump UK law, or if it does it does so only under circumstances that don't apply here. So I can't engage with the argument.

    As for your contention regarding a "vast majority of International Jurists", it does rather beg the question of "how many international jurists are there?", "what are their names?", and "which ones voted "lawful" and which ones "unlawful"?".

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sink or Swim is another expression from the witch-hunting time. Amazing how many idioms last for hundreds of years.
    viewcode said:

    Can you imagine Tom Watson if he'd been living in 1644?

    Unfortunately, yes. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party! (pauses and turns to a stuned, silent audience)

    He'd be like Matthew Hopkins - our very own freelance witch finder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Hopkins

    S'OK, i'd already remembered. From the film, not the historical personage, I hasten to add. I was not alive in the 17th century. That would obviously be silly talk (backs away nervously, mutters "damm, that was close...too close" sotto voce)

    EDIT: put BLOCKQUOTE tag in correct place
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:

    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:


    I have come across some strange comments in today’s FT regarding dismay of some Labour moderates at Corbyn’s appointment of Seumas Milne . A quote held against the latter from 2004 is ‘killings of ”occupation troops” in Iraq pale next to the toll inflicted by the (US/UK) occupiers’. Surely what he said was self-evident. Is it seriously suggested that people living in a country that has been the victim of an unprovoked attack have no right to resist their attackers? Would these people have said the same thing about the French Resistance attacking German troops in World War 2? Hypocritical idiots!

    I'm not entirely convinced of the moral equivalence between the USA and UK on the one hand, and Nazi Germany on the other.
    Both were aggressors - and the victims of aggression were entitled to resist. There is a strong legal case for arguing that the French Resistance was less justified on two grounds. Firstly France and Britain had declared war on Germany - and secondly the French Government had agreed an Armistice in June 1940. In contrast, Iraq had not declared war on the UK/US and no Armistice agreement had been signed.
    The "victims" you refer to were and are those who claim the right to murder, rape, torture, and rob their countrymen.
    Not so - I am also referring to ordinary Iraqis - military and civilian.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:



    The question is not whether the war was morally wrong. The question certainly should not be whether it would be popular: we've had the noncefinder general denounce innocent citizens, and nobody raised a hand to stop him for far too long, cos it was popular. The question is simply a) was a crime committed, and b) is there sufficient evidence to conclude that this individual committed it? Like it or lump it the Iraq War was legal in UK law, so no crime, so no criminality.

    Was it legal in International Law? Doubtless the German attacks on Poland and USSR were legal under German law at the time. The vast majority of International Jurists appear to take the view that the 2003 attack was unlawful..
    Was it legal in international law? Possibly (there are those that argue it does), possibly not (ditto). My (admittedly minority) view is that international law doesn't trump UK law, or if it does it does so only under circumstances that don't apply here. So I can't engage with the argument.

    As for your contention regarding a "vast majority of International Jurists", it does rather beg the question of "how many international jurists are there?", "what are their names?", and "which ones voted "lawful" and which ones "unlawful"?".

    But that is an argument available to all aggressors pretty well.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Desperate, broken Scottish Liberals have even given up asking people to vote for them now. Now they just want to offer a free trial.

    if you want all these things, then try out the Liberal Democrats

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34616826
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    LOL
    A bronze Lenin statue in Ukraine has been remodelled - into Darth Vader.

    The sculpture of the revolutionary leader in the city of Odessa was going to be removed by the government under de-communisation laws.

    But instead, it has gone to the dark side.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3287650/The-Force-awakens-Ukraine-statue-Lenin-given-makeover-look-like-DARTH-VADER.html#ixzz3pUvhgwuk
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,746

    justin124 said:

    Apart from the Blair haters, who already lurve Corbyn, I can't see [m]any going for this. I absolutely do not think we've had any PM or CabMin anywhere near a war crime.

    For anyone interested in WMD from WW1, there's an excellent Time Team on Livens Flamethrower - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/on-demand/49039-002

    It was banned post WW1.

    Plato..The current opposition front bench

    Many International jurists would disagree
    I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials 1945/46, and on the Indictment relating to Planning for War it is difficult to believe that any of those convicted - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop - were as guilty as Blair/Bush in 2002/2003.
    You seriously think that those convicted of the Holocaust and other war crimes are less guilty than Blair/Bush for removing a dictator that put his own citizens through meat grinders while alive as a form of execution? Feet first to maximise suffering.
    I may well be wrongf, but while Saddam was horrible, I don’t think any evidence of that happening was ever found.
    Some doubt it happened but Ann Clwyd provided witnesses to it happening and witnesses to it happening spoke at the trial of Hussein.

    What is undeniable is that Hussein was horrible. To suggest removing him is worse than the Holocaust and other Nazi crimes as Justin has done is just sickening.
    I’m obliged. If Ann Clwyd found witnesses that’s good enough for me. And I totally agree with your second sentence. He was up there with Hitler and Himmler.

    Why GWB etc. didn’t finish the job in the first Gulf War I never understood. Response to aggression ete etc. There might just have been a chance of an opposition in Iraq which could have taken over then, too.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Bleat, bleat, bleat.

    It wasn't me who proclaimed the 'March of the Makers', it was Osborne.

    The same Osborne who has now presided over THREE manufacturing recessions but who has pumped borrowed money into raising consumer spending and house prices.

    If Osborne had chosen he could have cut have cut taxes on business and especially energy, increased capital investment and rebalanced the economy.

    He should have cut taxes on business?

    2010/11 Corporation Tax Rate: 28%
    2015/16 Corporation Tax Rate: 20%

    And its being cut further.
    Rebalance the economy? You mean like this?
    Public sector March 2009 6.319 milion 21.7% of workforce
    Private sector march 2009 22.759 million 78.3% of workfoce

    Public sector june 2015 5.360 milion 17.2% of workforce
    Private sector june 2015 25.680 million 82.8% of workfoce
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,746
    Meanwhile Afghanistan have achieved a series win over Zimbabwe to win a series against a Test playing nation for the first time!
  • Sink or Swim is another expression from the witch-hunting time. Amazing how many idioms last for hundreds of years.

    viewcode said:

    Can you imagine Tom Watson if he'd been living in 1644?

    Unfortunately, yes. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party! (pauses and turns to a stuned, silent audience)

    He'd be like Matthew Hopkins - our very own freelance witch finder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Hopkins

    S'OK, i'd already remembered. From the film, not the historical personage, I hasten to add. I was not alive in the 17th century. That would obviously be silly talk (backs away nervously, mutters "damm, that was close...too close" sotto voce)

    EDIT: put BLOCKQUOTE tag in correct place
    I love learning about the origins of sayings (can anyone recommend a book). Lucy Worsley in her murder doc recently taught me that 'sweet FA' does not mean what I always assumed it was abbreviated from but from a Victorian murder of a young girl called Fanny Adams whose body was cut up in little pieces and hence 'sweet FA' to mean very little. Makes me feel rather guilty about using the expression now!
  • Bleat, bleat, bleat.

    It wasn't me who proclaimed the 'March of the Makers', it was Osborne.

    The same Osborne who has now presided over THREE manufacturing recessions but who has pumped borrowed money into raising consumer spending and house prices.

    If Osborne had chosen he could have cut have cut taxes on business and especially energy, increased capital investment and rebalanced the economy.

    He should have cut taxes on business?

    2010/11 Corporation Tax Rate: 28%
    2015/16 Corporation Tax Rate: 20%

    And its being cut further.
    Bleat, bleat, bleat.

    Osborne cut the corporation tax on the retailers of imported consumer tat.

    Hallelujah! Rejoice! We're saved!

    As usual you totally ignore the energy costs UK manufacturing faces.

    Perhaps Osborne should done something there if he wanted a 'March of the Makers'.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    Brewer's Phrase & Fable will keep you occupied for ages - I love it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brewers-Dictionary-Phrase-Fable-18th/dp/0550104119

    Lucy Worsley is a great presenter - naughty school prefect manner.

    Sink or Swim is another expression from the witch-hunting time. Amazing how many idioms last for hundreds of years.

    viewcode said:

    Can you imagine Tom Watson if he'd been living in 1644?

    Unfortunately, yes. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party! (pauses and turns to a stuned, silent audience)

    He'd be like Matthew Hopkins - our very own freelance witch finder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Hopkins

    S'OK, i'd already remembered. From the film, not the historical personage, I hasten to add. I was not alive in the 17th century. That would obviously be silly talk (backs away nervously, mutters "damm, that was close...too close" sotto voce)

    EDIT: put BLOCKQUOTE tag in correct place
    I love learning about the origins of sayings (can anyone recommend a book). Lucy Worsley in her murder doc recently taught me that 'sweet FA' does not mean what I always assumed it was abbreviated from but from a Victorian murder of a young girl called Fanny Adams whose body was cut up in little pieces and hence 'sweet FA' to mean very little. Makes me feel rather guilty about using the expression now!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,431

    Sink or Swim is another expression from the witch-hunting time. Amazing how many idioms last for hundreds of years.

    viewcode said:

    Can you imagine Tom Watson if he'd been living in 1644?

    Unfortunately, yes. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party! (pauses and turns to a stuned, silent audience)

    He'd be like Matthew Hopkins - our very own freelance witch finder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Hopkins

    S'OK, i'd already remembered. From the film, not the historical personage, I hasten to add. I was not alive in the 17th century. That would obviously be silly talk (backs away nervously, mutters "damm, that was close...too close" sotto voce)

    EDIT: put BLOCKQUOTE tag in correct place
    "salad days", "full circle", "laughing stock", "gild the lily", "good riddance"...all date from Shakespeare plays. We worship two-thousand-year-old gods and school our children in terms defined by harvest times that Chaucer would have recognised. To comfort ourselves agains the dark we pretend that our monarchy is a thousand years old, that laws are absolutes, that bad people get caught, doctors always make ill people better, and that something called "fair" exists. We are not as modern as we like to think, and are always ridden by a shaved ape gibbering maniaically...

    (sorry, waxing a bit pretentious there. Must get back to work)

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,431
    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:



    The question is not whether the war was morally wrong. The question certainly should not be whether it would be popular: we've had the noncefinder general denounce innocent citizens, and nobody raised a hand to stop him for far too long, cos it was popular. The question is simply a) was a crime committed, and b) is there sufficient evidence to conclude that this individual committed it? Like it or lump it the Iraq War was legal in UK law, so no crime, so no criminality.

    Was it legal in International Law? Doubtless the German attacks on Poland and USSR were legal under German law at the time. The vast majority of International Jurists appear to take the view that the 2003 attack was unlawful..
    Was it legal in international law? Possibly (there are those that argue it does), possibly not (ditto). My (admittedly minority) view is that international law doesn't trump UK law, or if it does it does so only under circumstances that don't apply here. So I can't engage with the argument.

    As for your contention regarding a "vast majority of International Jurists", it does rather beg the question of "how many international jurists are there?", "what are their names?", and "which ones voted "lawful" and which ones "unlawful"?".

    But that is an argument available to all aggressors pretty well.
    Yes
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Just finished reading The Buried Giant by Kazuo Ishiguro. As usual for him, it's difficult to get through the first 50% of the book, but definitely worth it in the end.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Can’t believe no one has mentioned that on this day in 1360 - The Treaty of Brétigny was ratified at Calais, marking the end of the first phase of the Hundred Years' War.

    How quickly some forget :innocent:

    Especially the French, who have had for 600 years or so a nasty habit of forgetting the bits of treaties that they don't like.

    Some years ago I was entertaining my French opposite number and as ever the conversation to around to the EU. He expressed amazement that the UK were such reluctant partners and I explained it was because we remembered the war. He said, "But the war finished in 1945, surely it is done now" I had to explain the the war I was referring to was the hundred years war.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Smashing turn out for Scottish Liberals conference.

    Looks like their holding it in an industrial lock up.

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/657878827314581504
  • Brewer's Phrase & Fable will keep you occupied for ages - I love it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brewers-Dictionary-Phrase-Fable-18th/dp/0550104119

    Lucy Worsley is a great presenter - naughty school prefect manner.

    Sink or Swim is another expression from the witch-hunting time. Amazing how many idioms last for hundreds of years.

    viewcode said:

    Can you imagine Tom Watson if he'd been living in 1644?

    Unfortunately, yes. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party! (pauses and turns to a stuned, silent audience)

    He'd be like Matthew Hopkins - our very own freelance witch finder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Hopkins

    S'OK, i'd already remembered. From the film, not the historical personage, I hasten to add. I was not alive in the 17th century. That would obviously be silly talk (backs away nervously, mutters "damm, that was close...too close" sotto voce)

    EDIT: put BLOCKQUOTE tag in correct place
    I love learning about the origins of sayings (can anyone recommend a book). Lucy Worsley in her murder doc recently taught me that 'sweet FA' does not mean what I always assumed it was abbreviated from but from a Victorian murder of a young girl called Fanny Adams whose body was cut up in little pieces and hence 'sweet FA' to mean very little. Makes me feel rather guilty about using the expression now!
    yes must admit to loving anything Lucy presents . She has a good sense of fun and not afraid to 'ham' it or look a bit ridiculous. She obviously loves to dress up!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,746
    Dair said:
    I don’t know; reckon Charles would have liked it!

    And now I’m off to the pub!
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Did you see her learning dressage? Brilliant Reins of Power.

    Brewer's Phrase & Fable will keep you occupied for ages - I love it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brewers-Dictionary-Phrase-Fable-18th/dp/0550104119

    Lucy Worsley is a great presenter - naughty school prefect manner.

    Sink or Swim is another expression from the witch-hunting time. Amazing how many idioms last for hundreds of years.

    viewcode said:

    Can you imagine Tom Watson if he'd been living in 1644?

    Unfortunately, yes. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party! (pauses and turns to a stuned, silent audience)

    He'd be like Matthew Hopkins - our very own freelance witch finder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Hopkins

    S'OK, i'd already remembered. From the film, not the historical personage, I hasten to add. I was not alive in the 17th century. That would obviously be silly talk (backs away nervously, mutters "damm, that was close...too close" sotto voce)

    EDIT: put BLOCKQUOTE tag in correct place
    I love learning about the origins of sayings (can anyone recommend a book). Lucy Worsley in her murder doc recently taught me that 'sweet FA' does not mean what I always assumed it was abbreviated from but from a Victorian murder of a young girl called Fanny Adams whose body was cut up in little pieces and hence 'sweet FA' to mean very little. Makes me feel rather guilty about using the expression now!
    yes must admit to loving anything Lucy presents . She has a good sense of fun and not afraid to 'ham' it or look a bit ridiculous. She obviously loves to dress up!
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    notme said:

    Bleat, bleat, bleat.

    It wasn't me who proclaimed the 'March of the Makers', it was Osborne.

    The same Osborne who has now presided over THREE manufacturing recessions but who has pumped borrowed money into raising consumer spending and house prices.

    If Osborne had chosen he could have cut have cut taxes on business and especially energy, increased capital investment and rebalanced the economy.

    He should have cut taxes on business?

    2010/11 Corporation Tax Rate: 28%
    2015/16 Corporation Tax Rate: 20%

    And its being cut further.
    Rebalance the economy? You mean like this?
    Public sector March 2009 6.319 milion 21.7% of workforce
    Private sector march 2009 22.759 million 78.3% of workfoce

    Public sector june 2015 5.360 milion 17.2% of workforce
    Private sector june 2015 25.680 million 82.8% of workfoce
    Fair go, Mr Me. However, if we take into account the people who are still doing the same jobs and those jobs are still paid for by the state but through a private sector company then perhaps the figures look far less rosy.

    A real example: A nurse is employed to prescribe narcotics to addicts in prisons he/she is a public sector employee. That job is outsourced to a private company, a company whose entire income is from outsourcing deals by the way. The nurse is still there doing the same job which is still paid for by the state but now he/she is a private sector employee. A reason to celebrate the rebalancing of the economy? I don't think so, do you?
  • LOL

    A bronze Lenin statue in Ukraine has been remodelled - into Darth Vader.

    The sculpture of the revolutionary leader in the city of Odessa was going to be removed by the government under de-communisation laws.

    But instead, it has gone to the dark side.

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  • notme said:

    Bleat, bleat, bleat.

    It wasn't me who proclaimed the 'March of the Makers', it was Osborne.

    The same Osborne who has now presided over THREE manufacturing recessions but who has pumped borrowed money into raising consumer spending and house prices.

    If Osborne had chosen he could have cut have cut taxes on business and especially energy, increased capital investment and rebalanced the economy.

    He should have cut taxes on business?

    2010/11 Corporation Tax Rate: 28%
    2015/16 Corporation Tax Rate: 20%

    And its being cut further.
    Rebalance the economy? You mean like this?
    Public sector March 2009 6.319 milion 21.7% of workforce
    Private sector march 2009 22.759 million 78.3% of workfoce

    Public sector june 2015 5.360 milion 17.2% of workforce
    Private sector june 2015 25.680 million 82.8% of workfoce
    Fair go, Mr Me. However, if we take into account the people who are still doing the same jobs and those jobs are still paid for by the state but through a private sector company then perhaps the figures look far less rosy.

    A real example: A nurse is employed to prescribe narcotics to addicts in prisons he/she is a public sector employee. That job is outsourced to a private company, a company whose entire income is from outsourcing deals by the way. The nurse is still there doing the same job which is still paid for by the state but now he/she is a private sector employee. A reason to celebrate the rebalancing of the economy? I don't think so, do you?
    Indeed.

    Not to mention the likes of higher education colleges and Royal Mail being reclassified from private sector to public sector.

    In any case the issue isn't public versus private sector but wealth creating versus wealth consuming.

    Pumping a trillion pounds of borrowed money into the economy as has happened during the last decade exacerbates the imbalances unless specific policies are made to change the fundamental balance of the economy.

    Without them we see the problems we now have - government borrowing over forecast, the current account deficit at record levels, house prices and consumer spending steadily rising and a 'March of the Makers' where manufacturing output is lower than it was four years ago.
  • AndyJS said:

    Just finished reading The Buried Giant by Kazuo Ishiguro. As usual for him, it's difficult to get through the first 50% of the book, but definitely worth it in the end.

    The only book of his I've read is The Remains of the Day.

    Quite good but also quite bland.
  • Can’t believe no one has mentioned that on this day in 1360 - The Treaty of Brétigny was ratified at Calais, marking the end of the first phase of the Hundred Years' War.

    How quickly some forget :innocent:

    Especially the French, who have had for 600 years or so a nasty habit of forgetting the bits of treaties that they don't like.

    Some years ago I was entertaining my French opposite number and as ever the conversation to around to the EU. He expressed amazement that the UK were such reluctant partners and I explained it was because we remembered the war. He said, "But the war finished in 1945, surely it is done now" I had to explain the the war I was referring to was the hundred years war.
    Losing that war was one of the best things that ever happened to England.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    notme said:

    Bleat, bleat, bleat.

    It wasn't me who proclaimed the 'March of the Makers', it was Osborne.

    The same Osborne who has now presided over THREE manufacturing recessions but who has pumped borrowed money into raising consumer spending and house prices.

    If Osborne had chosen he could have cut have cut taxes on business and especially energy, increased capital investment and rebalanced the economy.

    He should have cut taxes on business?

    2010/11 Corporation Tax Rate: 28%
    2015/16 Corporation Tax Rate: 20%

    And its being cut further.
    Rebalance the economy? You mean like this?
    Public sector March 2009 6.319 milion 21.7% of workforce
    Private sector march 2009 22.759 million 78.3% of workfoce

    Public sector june 2015 5.360 milion 17.2% of workforce
    Private sector june 2015 25.680 million 82.8% of workfoce
    Fair go, Mr Me. However, if we take into account the people who are still doing the same jobs and those jobs are still paid for by the state but through a private sector company then perhaps the figures look far less rosy.

    A real example: A nurse is employed to prescribe narcotics to addicts in prisons he/she is a public sector employee. That job is outsourced to a private company, a company whose entire income is from outsourcing deals by the way. The nurse is still there doing the same job which is still paid for by the state but now he/she is a private sector employee. A reason to celebrate the rebalancing of the economy? I don't think so, do you?
    Indeed.

    Not to mention the likes of higher education colleges and Royal Mail being reclassified from private sector to public sector.

    In any case the issue isn't public versus private sector but wealth creating versus wealth consuming.

    Pumping a trillion pounds of borrowed money into the economy as has happened during the last decade exacerbates the imbalances unless specific policies are made to change the fundamental balance of the economy.

    Without them we see the problems we now have - government borrowing over forecast, the current account deficit at record levels, house prices and consumer spending steadily rising and a 'March of the Makers' where manufacturing output is lower than it was four years ago.
    Quite right, Mr. Richard, and as long as people fixate on changes in GDP the long the trick can be played. And I sometimes think that the powers that be really are trying to be stage magicians - direct attention to one thing whilst doing something else and GDP is what we are all supposed to be looking at.

    Wealth creation not economic activity is the key to reserve our children's future, yet we have people bickering about 0.1% differences in measures of GDP.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Can’t believe no one has mentioned that on this day in 1360 - The Treaty of Brétigny was ratified at Calais, marking the end of the first phase of the Hundred Years' War.

    How quickly some forget :innocent:

    Especially the French, who have had for 600 years or so a nasty habit of forgetting the bits of treaties that they don't like.

    Some years ago I was entertaining my French opposite number and as ever the conversation to around to the EU. He expressed amazement that the UK were such reluctant partners and I explained it was because we remembered the war. He said, "But the war finished in 1945, surely it is done now" I had to explain the the war I was referring to was the hundred years war.
    Losing that war was one of the best things that ever happened to England.
    Yes, well, I think I can see where you are coming from, but one could argue that the War actually finished in 1420 with a massive England win. What happened after was the Frogs as usual ignoring bits of a treaty they didn't like and running an uprising against the lawful rulers. It just so happened that it was our turn to have a stupid boy as king and a bunch of inbred idiots as the council of regency and so the Frogs got away with it.

    If Henry V had lived a little longer Europe would have looked very different today.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    new thread



  • Indeed.

    Not to mention the likes of higher education colleges and Royal Mail being reclassified from private sector to public sector.

    In any case the issue isn't public versus private sector but wealth creating versus wealth consuming.

    Pumping a trillion pounds of borrowed money into the economy as has happened during the last decade exacerbates the imbalances unless specific policies are made to change the fundamental balance of the economy.

    Without them we see the problems we now have - government borrowing over forecast, the current account deficit at record levels, house prices and consumer spending steadily rising and a 'March of the Makers' where manufacturing output is lower than it was four years ago.

    Quite right, Mr. Richard, and as long as people fixate on changes in GDP the long the trick can be played. And I sometimes think that the powers that be really are trying to be stage magicians - direct attention to one thing whilst doing something else and GDP is what we are all supposed to be looking at.

    Wealth creation not economic activity is the key to reserve our children's future, yet we have people bickering about 0.1% differences in measures of GDP.
    Can you remember when this obsession with GDP arose ?

    I suspect it was while Brown was CotE.

    Thinking back to my days of youthful hazy memory the economic stats of importance which were mentioned on the news were unemployment, inflation, trade balance and industrial output - real world things. But I can't remember GDP ever being talked about.

    But since 2000 it has become all about GDP. Meanwhile we're talking about debt in the trillions and inequality has soared.

    As you say stage magicians and their tricks.
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