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  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    The contingency fee model
    I might tell the next lot I've had an accident, see where the call develops...
    Is a farce, a few years ago, I was involved in a car accident, the only injury I received was a very minor burn on a finger from when the air bag deployed.

    I was told I could get up to 2 grand in compensation for that, no win no fee.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    So Labour policy appears to be spend 100 billion on replacing Trident ...... but then promising not to use it.

    Classic.
  • Another 2,200 people applied to join the Labour party yesterday as a result of Jeremy Corbyn's speech.Labour is well on the way to becoming a mass membership party which will have to be self-funded from the members.Half a million members is no longer a fantasy.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited September 2015

    JonathanD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @bbclaurak: Now HIlary Benn, Falconer, and Eagle all disputing Corbyn's ruling out of nuclear

    How can they dispute it? Surely it is the PMs right to decide on issues like that. The cabinet can vote on renewing Trident but they can't vote to force the PM to press the button.
    lt would make a good film though. How would they get the codes out of him? Probably been done in a US context.
    What button and codes? PM doesn't have any.

    PM authorises the sub commander to launch the weapons. RN send an authentication code.

    The V boat captain could release right now should he so choose, but he doesn't since no one has issued him the authority.
  • being in the unique position of the only PBer who has actually done a tour on a Nuclear Submarine, I can assure everyone that the codes and use of them is extremely carefully worked out and it may not be the PM who gives the order...depends entirely on the situation on the day..
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    ...He has just sold his biz for 70 million quid..and he tells me he has taken every conceivable step to pay as little as possible to the taxman....

    Of course he did - it's what's known as human nature. No-one voluntarily writes a cheque to the taxman for any more than the minimum required.
    We're proud of the fact that our family company is owned directly by the partners, without any complex offshore tax planning.

    Simplicity and transparency are good things.
    That rules you out of working for the Guardian then..... :-)

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    The contingency fee model
    I might tell the next lot I've had an accident, see where the call develops...
    Is a farce, a few years ago, I was involved in a car accident, the only injury I received was a very minor burn on a finger from when the air bag deployed.

    I was told I could get up to 2 grand in compensation for that, no win no fee.
    But here's the thing, I haven't had any car accidents since about 12 years ago, at least.

    I can understand the model if you're calling people up who have had accidents 0- but calling people who haven't doesn't seem profitable to me...
  • Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    The contingency fee model
    It's the "every UK lawyer deserves a job and you idiots have to pay for it even although most lawyers make Miliband seem competent:" model..
    Another one of Labour's achievements
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Is the Prime Minister going to clarify which cities he would be prepared to obliterate using Trident? I see from a BBC graphic that North Korea is out of range if the subs are in the Atlantic.

    The whole point is not to tell anyone what you would do. A subtlety beyond the new, kinder politics of Corbyn.
    But the subs can operate from the Arctic. Murmansk to Pyongyang = 6100km, range of Trident is 7800km.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421
    Or am I vastly underestimating the number of small accidents people have ?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    The contingency fee model
    I might tell the next lot I've had an accident, see where the call develops...
    Is a farce, a few years ago, I was involved in a car accident, the only injury I received was a very minor burn on a finger from when the air bag deployed.

    I was told I could get up to 2 grand in compensation for that, no win no fee.
    But here's the thing, I haven't had any car accidents since about 12 years ago, at least.

    I can understand the model if you're calling people up who have had accidents 0- but calling people who haven't doesn't seem profitable to me...
    It's a fishing expedition. Same as people who make money sending spam emails.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    JEO said:

    Sandpit,

    It has become increasingly clear to me that EU membership means we have to accept that other governments, many of which are either much softer, or much more corrupt, than we are, can hand out passports to live in the UK permanently.

    It seems like a fatal flaw in the system.

    Quite. As was said about the migrants in Calais, the impression given to those outside the UK is that those who wish to do the right thing and play by the rules are discriminated against and made to jump through hoops, whereas those who choose violence or subterfuge to get to the UK are welcomed with open arms. For example, why were people arriving from France not deported straight back there, if they were not claiming asylum from the French?

    Maybe I should just turn up at Dover with Mrs Sandpit and have her claim asylum in the UK!
    *Runs away in case she reads this!*
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PSbook: Firm owned by SNP MP boasted about selling Scottish social housing to English investors http://t.co/Yzr9uWPPAN http://t.co/nNfqiWd5C3

    You've linked to a story about an Independent MP.

    As usual, you prefer to lie than tell the truth.
    As she is no longer part of your party - are you calling for her to step down and get elected as an Independent ?

    Again - why does the National think she isn't part of the investigation - and if she isn't - why was she leant on ?
    I think she should resign her seat, yes.
    Why would anyone resign their seat if they genuinely believe that they did nothing wrong?

    Or is it guilty until proven innocent in the Brave New World of the SNP?
    I explained this the other day.

    There is no evidence that she has committed any crime.

    The problem is that she ran/runs a business which is involved in the distress purchase property market. I do not believe this is compatible with holding elected office under the banner of a social democratic party.

    As such, the SNP (once they are able to do so, which is presumably after any investigation is over) should permanently expel her and she should resign her seat.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JenWilliamsMEN: Jeremy Corbyn has ditched all his regional press interviews at the last minute. There's not even a reason, he just doesn't feel like it
  • glwglw Posts: 9,957
    Floater said:

    So Labour policy appears to be spend 100 billion on replacing Trident ...... but then promising not to use it.

    Classic.

    I am quite impressed that he's managed to find a worse option than not renewing Trident.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    The contingency fee model
    I might tell the next lot I've had an accident, see where the call develops...
    Is a farce, a few years ago, I was involved in a car accident, the only injury I received was a very minor burn on a finger from when the air bag deployed.

    I was told I could get up to 2 grand in compensation for that, no win no fee.
    But here's the thing, I haven't had any car accidents since about 12 years ago, at least.

    I can understand the model if you're calling people up who have had accidents 0- but calling people who haven't doesn't seem profitable to me...
    My friend as a pedestrian witnessed an accident and gave a police statement, he was plagued by calls from firms saying, did you have to take evasive action, did you suffer an injury, did it traumatise you?

    Some of these turn into fishing trips for industrial accident/injury claims.

    I think we're going to see a new industry forming with the VW scandal.

    Were you mis-sold TDI? Call us
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Dair said:

    The problem is that she ran/runs a business which is involved in the distress purchase property market. I do not believe this is compatible with holding elected office under the banner of a social democratic party.

    As such, the SNP (once they are able to do so, which is presumably after any investigation is over) should permanently expel her and she should resign her seat.

    She ran that business when she was selected and appeared next to a grinning Nicola in lots of photos.

    So is the line that the SNP were incompetent with their due diligence, they didn't know, they did know and selected her anyway which they should not have done, or they knew and hoped nobody would find out?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Scott_P said:

    @JenWilliamsMEN: Jeremy Corbyn has ditched all his regional press interviews at the last minute. There's not even a reason, he just doesn't feel like it

    Comedy Gold. How does Corbyn ever hope to win round the voters Labour need to win, having pissed off all the media.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Frankly, I find that simply rude. Messing people about isn't big or clever.
    Scott_P said:

    @JenWilliamsMEN: Jeremy Corbyn has ditched all his regional press interviews at the last minute. There's not even a reason, he just doesn't feel like it

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @RobDotHutton: Lobby consensus: @tom_watson has officially made a "wide-ranging speech". http://t.co/jhNyIpCmHI
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    The contingency fee model
    I might tell the next lot I've had an accident, see where the call develops...
    Is a farce, a few years ago, I was involved in a car accident, the only injury I received was a very minor burn on a finger from when the air bag deployed.

    I was told I could get up to 2 grand in compensation for that, no win no fee.
    But here's the thing, I haven't had any car accidents since about 12 years ago, at least.

    I can understand the model if you're calling people up who have had accidents 0- but calling people who haven't doesn't seem profitable to me...
    My friend as a pedestrian witnessed an accident and gave a police statement, he was plagued by calls from firms saying, did you have to take evasive action, did you suffer an injury, did it traumatise you?

    Some of these turn into fishing trips for industrial accident/injury claims.

    I think we're going to see a new industry forming with the VW scandal.

    Were you mis-sold TDI? Call us
    My job is as a consequence of a mis-selling scandal.

    Perhaps I can switch over...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    Dair said:

    The problem is that she ran/runs a business which is involved in the distress purchase property market. I do not believe this is compatible with holding elected office under the banner of a social democratic party.

    As such, the SNP (once they are able to do so, which is presumably after any investigation is over) should permanently expel her and she should resign her seat.

    She ran that business when she was selected and appeared next to a grinning Nicola in lots of photos.

    So is the line that the SNP were incompetent with their due diligence, they didn't know, they did know and selected her anyway which they should not have done, or they knew and hoped nobody would find out?
    You can see why she wanted to be an MP..

    Also as a leading light of the Biz yes campaign - perhaps explains the delay in the case "moving forward"..

    How convenient.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: Fallon: “The Labour leader is effectively saying he would lower Britain’s defences."
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It’s official; Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have been airbrushed out of Labour’s history. In his speech Tom Watson, the deputy leader, paid tribute to John Smith and Ed Miliband, but did not mention the two party leaders in between.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/30/labour-conference-jeremy-corbyns-morning-interviews-politics-live#block-560ba355e4b00e76364a2513
  • (from elsewhere)

    "Talk dirty to me", she whispered.

    "VW Diesel", he replied.

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    Cold calling all works on the same business model.

    Find a lonely, usually elderly individual, who starved of someone to talk to, then get them to engage with the sales rep on the phone. Convert this into an appointment/sale by engineering the individual to feel sorry for the rep.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Sandy Rentool... I imagine the cities that may be targeted would be in the countries that attacked us..just saying

    So if ISIL attack us, do we destroy Damascus, Baghdad, or both? Or just stick with Moscow, as that is where they have been pointing for the past 30 years?
    Dear god..........

  • Frankly, I find that simply rude. Messing people about isn't big or clever.

    Scott_P said:

    @JenWilliamsMEN: Jeremy Corbyn has ditched all his regional press interviews at the last minute. There's not even a reason, he just doesn't feel like it

    It's not going to make him many friends thats for sure.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    The contingency fee model
    I might tell the next lot I've had an accident, see where the call develops...
    Is a farce, a few years ago, I was involved in a car accident, the only injury I received was a very minor burn on a finger from when the air bag deployed.

    I was told I could get up to 2 grand in compensation for that, no win no fee.
    But here's the thing, I haven't had any car accidents since about 12 years ago, at least.

    I can understand the model if you're calling people up who have had accidents 0- but calling people who haven't doesn't seem profitable to me...
    My friend as a pedestrian witnessed an accident and gave a police statement, he was plagued by calls from firms saying, did you have to take evasive action, did you suffer an injury, did it traumatise you?

    Some of these turn into fishing trips for industrial accident/injury claims.

    I think we're going to see a new industry forming with the VW scandal.

    Were you mis-sold TDI? Call us
    My job is as a consequence of a mis-selling scandal.

    Perhaps I can switch over...
    I've had three vehicles from the VW group.

    I think we might have to launch our complaints PDQ before VW goes mammary glands up.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    taffys said:
    Must not throw soap at this lot from my flat.

    I might wear my morning suit and top hat though and spray champagne at them.
    LOL - I wonder if the official Champagne ban at the Tory conference will finally be lifted this year?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Scott_P said:

    @JGForsyth: No respectful silence this time, Corbyn belting out the Red Flag

    Hang on a minute, what about the sore throat and lost voice that forced him to cancel some interviews.

    Someone doing a very good impression of running scared of the press.
  • Scott_P said:

    The new line from Dair seems to confirm that Zoomer central have decided to jettison Thomson to protect Nicola

    @kevverage: So presumably she must have knowingly withheld this information? https://t.co/J3pye2ol2e

    Dair seems to believe that when someone does something illegal and abominable whilst an SNP MP and also whilst a prominent SNP supporter and peddling the SNP line then its alright for the SNP when she is then thrown out. lt trancadentally becomes an independent MP who perpetrated the horrors.
    People like him have to believe this of course because if one SNP MP can lie so brazenly (when only pearls of wisdom are supposed to fall from the mouths of the SNP) then they can all be a bunch of liars - not least when it comes to defending their own party prejudice.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is ruthlessly using the tools at his disposal to take Labour party policy in the direction he wishes.

    Those who naively think that he's only going to act as a stopgap leader should start examining the evidence to the contrary.

    I expect him to be here in 2020 and to hand over to another leader. Labour have handed over the party to people who know how to retain power. Aided by a few useful idiots like Weathercock Burnham...he who swivels to follow the prevailing wind.
    I'm invested in Jezza keeping his job past 1st Jan 2017, with a nice bonus if he keeps it till 2020. But my friend who works in the lobbying industry reckons he'll go in 2016 for sure.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Scott_P said:

    @RobDotHutton: Lobby consensus: @tom_watson has officially made a "wide-ranging speech". http://t.co/jhNyIpCmHI

    Corbyn's the patsy.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    perdix said:

    DavidL said:

    As I have said before on here when we already have immigrant communities of several million with strong family, religious and cultural links back to their countries of origin the idea that we will have less than 100K net immigration a year is frankly absurd.

    This would only be possible if the right of UK citizens to marry who they like and then have their spouse come and live with them in the UK was taken away. The right is already restricted by an income level of £24k and some fairly intrusive tests to establish whether or not it is a sham marriage. I don't think we can do much more except at the margins.

    In short, the pass was sold when these communities were allowed to establish themselves and then positively encouraged to retain those links by the deluded policies of multi-culturalism. Any politician that tries to tell you otherwise without indicating that what have been considered fairly inalienable rights are going to be taken away is just lying.

    I think this is spot on. When you add in the 50 000 students each year that do not go home and 30 000 Tier 4 visas there is not much scope to realistically cut immigration to the historical levels prevailing in the Seventies. Apart from elect a Seventies style socialist who would cause mass emigration!
    I'd wonder why anyone would want bright, young, educated graduates who have completed a degree in the country to go home. Its funny how often people bark on about how the immigrants are all uneducated poor ones but then it seems many tens of thousands are exactly the kind we'd want to encourage except they're already here. Bargain.
    Many courses of study are not very challenging. It can still be a ticket for UK residence in practice.

    That should be addressed if its an issue for the sake of our own young far more than migrants. A degree costs around £30k at least in fees and taxes so why would we be encouraging worthless degrees for our own students to flourish?
    One reason, politically, is that cutting froth courses gives ammunition to your political opponents. Hence the SNP slashing Hobby courses and sub-10 hour nonsense courses lets SLAB accuse them of "cutting 140k places" when the FTE is virtually unchanged.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It's handed Tories the perfect evidence for their *security* meme.
    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Fallon: “The Labour leader is effectively saying he would lower Britain’s defences."

  • LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PSbook: Firm owned by SNP MP boasted about selling Scottish social housing to English investors http://t.co/Yzr9uWPPAN http://t.co/nNfqiWd5C3

    You've linked to a story about an Independent MP.

    As usual, you prefer to lie than tell the truth.
    Unless the first published that material in the last few hours it was a story about an SNP MP.
    It's dated today, the whip was relinquished yesterday.

    Any implication that Michelle Thomson is an SNP MP is a lie. She is an Independent MP.
    lts called jumping the shark l believe.
  • Sandpit said:

    taffys said:
    Must not throw soap at this lot from my flat.

    I might wear my morning suit and top hat though and spray champagne at them.
    LOL - I wonder if the official Champagne ban at the Tory conference will finally be lifted this year?
    We're all bringing a dozen Nebuchadnezzar sized bottles.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    The contingency fee model
    I might tell the next lot I've had an accident, see where the call develops...
    http://www.419eater.com/ - See the story of the guy who got a Nigerian emailler to fly to London for a meeting in a nice hotel, where he observed the scammer from a distance while standing him up!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,997
    The best that can be said for the Labour Party conference is that nobody died.....
  • Dair said:

    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PSbook: Firm owned by SNP MP boasted about selling Scottish social housing to English investors http://t.co/Yzr9uWPPAN http://t.co/nNfqiWd5C3

    You've linked to a story about an Independent MP.

    As usual, you prefer to lie than tell the truth.
    As she is no longer part of your party - are you calling for her to step down and get elected as an Independent ?

    Again - why does the National think she isn't part of the investigation - and if she isn't - why was she leant on ?
    I think she should resign her seat, yes.
    Why would anyone resign their seat if they genuinely believe that they did nothing wrong?

    Or is it guilty until proven innocent in the Brave New World of the SNP?
    I explained this the other day.

    There is no evidence that she has committed any crime.

    The problem is that she ran/runs a business which is involved in the distress purchase property market. I do not believe this is compatible with holding elected office under the banner of a social democratic party.

    As such, the SNP (once they are able to do so, which is presumably after any investigation is over) should permanently expel her and she should resign her seat.
    The quality control of the 56 Nat MPs was shoddy. Your motley crew in Westminster promises great entertainment.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    The contingency fee model
    I might tell the next lot I've had an accident, see where the call develops...
    Is a farce, a few years ago, I was involved in a car accident, the only injury I received was a very minor burn on a finger from when the air bag deployed.

    I was told I could get up to 2 grand in compensation for that, no win no fee.
    But here's the thing, I haven't had any car accidents since about 12 years ago, at least.

    I can understand the model if you're calling people up who have had accidents 0- but calling people who haven't doesn't seem profitable to me...
    My friend as a pedestrian witnessed an accident and gave a police statement, he was plagued by calls from firms saying, did you have to take evasive action, did you suffer an injury, did it traumatise you?

    Some of these turn into fishing trips for industrial accident/injury claims.

    I think we're going to see a new industry forming with the VW scandal.

    Were you mis-sold TDI? Call us
    My job is as a consequence of a mis-selling scandal.

    Perhaps I can switch over...
    I've had three vehicles from the VW group.

    I think we might have to launch our complaints PDQ before VW goes mammary glands up.
    If you currently own a Volkswagen (Or anything else in the VW group - Audi, Skoda etc), I reckon you've got a golden compo ticket waiting.

    The dream scenario is to own a 20 month old VW group car or something like that right now bought from new.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have been airbrushed out of Labour’s history

    That sounds like the sanest thing Labour have done under this new regime
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,994
    edited September 2015
    The industry I can't understand is the ones that call you from "Windows" to say their servers tell them your laptop is infected with a virus.

    Your IQ must be smaller than your shoe size to fall for that.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I read his piece from yesterday and could feel the sorrow radiating off it. He sounded so resigned - not in a frustrated EdM way, but genuinely depressed that Corbyn's regime is bedding itself in.
    Floater said:
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    The contingency fee model
    I might tell the next lot I've had an accident, see where the call develops...
    When I said I hadn't had any accidents, the caller replied: "That doesn't matter. You can just say you had one". Seriously.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,994
    edited September 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How many people are employed in this country to phone up every Tom, Sarah, Dick & Harry about their road traffic accident ?

    What on earth is the business model !

    The contingency fee model
    I might tell the next lot I've had an accident, see where the call develops...
    Is a farce, a few years ago, I was involved in a car accident, the only injury I received was a very minor burn on a finger from when the air bag deployed.

    I was told I could get up to 2 grand in compensation for that, no win no fee.
    But here's the thing, I haven't had any car accidents since about 12 years ago, at least.

    I can understand the model if you're calling people up who have had accidents 0- but calling people who haven't doesn't seem profitable to me...
    My friend as a pedestrian witnessed an accident and gave a police statement, he was plagued by calls from firms saying, did you have to take evasive action, did you suffer an injury, did it traumatise you?

    Some of these turn into fishing trips for industrial accident/injury claims.

    I think we're going to see a new industry forming with the VW scandal.

    Were you mis-sold TDI? Call us
    My job is as a consequence of a mis-selling scandal.

    Perhaps I can switch over...
    I've had three vehicles from the VW group.

    I think we might have to launch our complaints PDQ before VW goes mammary glands up.
    If you currently own a Volkswagen (Or anything else in the VW group - Audi, Skoda etc), I reckon you've got a golden compo ticket waiting.

    The dream scenario is to own a 20 month old VW group car or something like that right now bought from new.
    Golf between 2000 and 2003.

    Cayenne between 2006 and 2009

    and an Audi on a short term rental a few months back in 2012.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Fallon: “The Labour leader is effectively saying he would lower Britain’s defences."

    Trident is irrelevant to Britain's defence.


  • It depends upon the question asked, the majority typically support higher taxes on other people but the minority know that's a bad idea. That is the same as migration.

    Eh? The majority want lower taxes for everybody, a minority simply want to soak the rich.



    That is not what many opinion polls show and which is why politics by opinion polls is a pathetic idea and anyone who suggests it is barking mad.

    I haven't suggested politics by opinion poll, as you well know, I'm simply pointing out that those who encourage immigration are in a minority, obfuscate all you wish.



    Nobody disputes that its a minority, doesn't stop the minority from being right. As they often are, eg on taxes.

    Ask the right question and you'll find a majority in favour of increasing taxes on the right, a majority in favour of increased spending etc, etc - and many PB Tories would oppose all that quite rightly.

    Thank you for pointing out that I'm wrong, I'm very grateful. I'm hopeful that in future you can point me in the right direction when the opinion of the majority of people is wrong.

    Perhaps you can start by showing that the MAJORITY want higher taxes, the GE somewhat contradicts your esteemed opinion.



    A majority? How about well over a majority at 61%

    61% support an increased top rate of tax to 50p: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/01/28/majority-support-50p-tax/

    As you said the party that proposed increasing the top rate of tax to 50p recently lost the election despite YouGov finding 61% in support of it. Oops kind of blows a hole in the argument that opinion polls are flawless (as if the election hadn't done that already). I'll happily accept your apology whenever you're ready.

    Where on earth have I said that opinion polls are flawless? In a conversation with TSE I have pointed out that polls ARE flawed. It is clear that you've resorted to lies, further conversation is pointless.

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited September 2015

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PSbook: Firm owned by SNP MP boasted about selling Scottish social housing to English investors http://t.co/Yzr9uWPPAN http://t.co/nNfqiWd5C3

    You've linked to a story about an Independent MP.

    As usual, you prefer to lie than tell the truth.
    As she is no longer part of your party - are you calling for her to step down and get elected as an Independent ?

    Again - why does the National think she isn't part of the investigation - and if she isn't - why was she leant on ?
    I think she should resign her seat, yes.
    Why would anyone resign their seat if they genuinely believe that they did nothing wrong?

    Or is it guilty until proven innocent in the Brave New World of the SNP?
    I explained this the other day.

    There is no evidence that she has committed any crime.

    The problem is that she ran/runs a business which is involved in the distress purchase property market. I do not believe this is compatible with holding elected office under the banner of a social democratic party.

    As such, the SNP (once they are able to do so, which is presumably after any investigation is over) should permanently expel her and she should resign her seat.
    The quality control of the 56 Nat MPs was shoddy. Your motley crew in Westminster promises great entertainment.
    There are only 55 Nat MPs. Have you not been listening to a word Dair says?
  • "Lord Hanningfield has been charged with false accounting in relation to allegations of expenses fraud."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34401900

  • I read his piece from yesterday and could feel the sorrow radiating off it. He sounded so resigned - not in a frustrated EdM way, but genuinely depressed that Corbyn's regime is bedding itself in.

    Floater said:
    Well this is why I argued for a more-or-less instant coup. If the moderates (not even the Blairites) don't take back their party now they might be waiting until 2025.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/hillary-clinton-emails-cheryl-mills-foundation-214243

    This article from politico.com shows just why the Hillary email server story is so messy. Apparently the Clinton Foundation used back channels to ask Hillary's Chief of Staff, Cheryl Mills, her opinion about sensitive high-pay speaking requests received by Bill.

    On the face of it, this is just sensible - to seek an authoritative view from the inside before launching a full and formal ethics committee request. However, Mills was a Clinton Foundation director before taking up her position at State and returned to that position afterwards. Again, nothing particularly wrong with that.

    Except that the process was not transparent and only came to light now that the emails on the server have been handed over to State and so are amenable to the FOIA process. What does damage to Hillary is the sense that there were no boundaries within her team between State and the Foundation, and that the private server was meant to keep this from coming to light - and that the same would hold should she win the White House.
  • Tomorrow we might find out if Corbyn is Malleus Nattorum

    @UKGE2020: 7 council by elections in Scotland tomorrow not one #UKIP candidate

    http://ukgeneralelection2020.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/super-thursday-real-votes-not-opinion.html
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    The industry I can't understand is the ones that call you from "Windows" to say their servers tell them your laptop is infected with a virus.

    Your IQ must be smaller than your shoe size to fall for that.

    Not funny that one - I have to deal with the aftermath of a few of those calls, usually from the older generations.

    The latest scam is that they connect via Teamviewer or similar and install Bitlocker, encrypt the drive then demand a ransom paid in Bitcoin, often of a couple of hundred dollars, for the key. Evil scumbags doesn't come close to describing them.
  • To reprise a classic: Corbyn's engaging in quantum politics. He believes in the doctrine of Schrodinger's nuclear deterrent, whereby it is simultaneously so vital we spend £100bn on it, and so abhorrent he will never use it.

    This dual-position can only be maintained until an observer directs attention at the policy, at which point it must revert to the normal laws of physics.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    @ Philip Thompson fpt: Nice! Mimosa trees, eucalyptus and koala? Cyprus was the same minus the koala and roos.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ChrisGibsonNews: NEW Former Army chief Sir Richard Dannatt hits out at Corbyn "How could we vote for a Prime Minister who wouldn't push the button?" #Trident
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Scott_P said:

    The new line from Dair seems to confirm that Zoomer central have decided to jettison Thomson to protect Nicola

    @kevverage: So presumably she must have knowingly withheld this information? https://t.co/J3pye2ol2e

    Dair seems to believe that when someone does something illegal and abominable whilst an SNP MP and also whilst a prominent SNP supporter and peddling the SNP line then its alright for the SNP when she is then thrown out. lt trancadentally becomes an independent MP who perpetrated the horrors.
    People like him have to believe this of course because if one SNP MP can lie so brazenly (when only pearls of wisdom are supposed to fall from the mouths of the SNP) then they can all be a bunch of liars - not least when it comes to defending their own party prejudice.
    Michelle Thomson has been a member of the SNP for less than one year. She was an SNP MP for less than 5 months. She was suspended as a result of recent news.

    There is nothing more the SNP can be expected to do. No scrutiny of candidates will ever be foolproof. However, the SNP seem to have done a reasonable job given the constant scrutiny from all sides, only one out of 50 new MPs (many of whom are very recent members) appears to be so problematic.

    The only politician for a Scottish seat which we know, by their own admission, to have lied brazenly is Alistair Carmichael. His party support his lying and want him to continue to represent them.
  • MTimT said:

    Is the Prime Minister going to clarify which cities he would be prepared to obliterate using Trident? I see from a BBC graphic that North Korea is out of range if the subs are in the Atlantic.

    The whole point is not to tell anyone what you would do. A subtlety beyond the new, kinder politics of Corbyn.
    But the subs can operate from the Arctic. Murmansk to Pyongyang = 6100km, range of Trident is 7800km.
    There was a story (apocryphal?) about the time the RAF were trying to stop the Royal Navy's new carrier being built in the 1960s. They showed that a RN task force could be provided with RAF air cover virtually anywhere in the world.

    No-one noticed that to achieve this, they'd moved Australia a few hundred miles on the map to cover a gap ... :)

    Yet another example of the utterly wasteful and destructive rivalry between the services that has done more damage to Britain's military than all of the incompetent politicians (Hoon!) combined.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    The best that can be said for the Labour Party conference is that nobody died.....

    That's true but the Labour Party is intensive care. No one knows if it will survive.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421
    edited September 2015

    I read his piece from yesterday and could feel the sorrow radiating off it. He sounded so resigned - not in a frustrated EdM way, but genuinely depressed that Corbyn's regime is bedding itself in.

    Floater said:
    Well this is why I argued for a more-or-less instant coup. If the moderates (not even the Blairites) don't take back their party now they might be waiting until 2025.
    How can they take it back ?!

    I've heard a rumour that Yvette Cooper is scheming against Corbo btw.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    "Lord Hanningfield has been charged with false accounting in relation to allegations of expenses fraud."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34401900

    The quality control over their Tory peers is quite woeful. Another Tory bound for slammer mayhaps?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @STJamesl: "You have to be prepared to use it," shadow first secretary of state @angelaeagle on the nuclear deterrent

    @JohnRentoul: "Jeremy will have to justify his own decisions." @angelaeagle #skynews
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I thought this para was interesting from today
    There are reports he is about to move to replace the current general secretary Iain McNicol with a “more loyal” appointee. He has already moved to bolster his position on the party’s ruling National Executive Committee by replacing Hilary Benn with one of his supporters Rebecca Long-Bailey. And he is about to turn his attention to the Labour Party constituencies. Plans to introduce mandatory reselection of Labour MPs have been shelved for the moment, primarily because the forthcoming boundary changes will automatically see a large number of seats opened up. Instead the focus will be on the selection of delegates for the 2016 conference, which are due to take place in February and March.

    I read his piece from yesterday and could feel the sorrow radiating off it. He sounded so resigned - not in a frustrated EdM way, but genuinely depressed that Corbyn's regime is bedding itself in.

    Floater said:
    Well this is why I argued for a more-or-less instant coup. If the moderates (not even the Blairites) don't take back their party now they might be waiting until 2025.
  • Dair said:

    "Lord Hanningfield has been charged with false accounting in relation to allegations of expenses fraud."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34401900

    The quality control over their Tory peers is quite woeful. Another Tory bound for slammer mayhaps?
    He's an Independent peer.
  • Courtesy of Greg Callus (Morus, formerly of this parish), some Scottish legal news that Dair probably won't bother mentioning:

    http://www.scottishlegal.com/2015/09/30/ruth-davidson-electoral-law-probe-finds-no-criminality/
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Pulpstar said:


    The contingency fee model
    I might tell the next lot I've had an accident, see where the call develops...

    I did that once - admitted to a multiple pile up just outside my house (at the end of a cul de sac).

    But I was a bit cagey about providing more details - told them that since they knew about the case, they must have had all the details at their fingertips.

    But I still received about six calls after that. Working slowly up the hierarchy. They were all Indian gentlemen, of course.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited September 2015
    Scott_P

    'bbclaurak: Burnham says he d 'find it difficult' to stay in shadow cabinet if party decides to scrap Trident'


    Desperate Andy would always find an excuse to stay.
  • Mr. Pulpstar, I wonder if the PLP might prefer to skip the likes of Cooper and Burnham and moves onto the Jarvis and Umunna[sp] generation.

    That said, Labour is useless at regicide, and Corbyn is consolidating his grip on the levers of internal party power.

    Listened to a small section of a ranting lunatic (Kofi Klu), part of the reparations movement, talking to Iain Dale on the radio. The ranter claimed Corbyn was on-side with such things, so getting the Chairman's perspective would prove enlightening.
  • Is Maria Eagle having trouble sleeping? Just seen her on TV, not so much bags under her eyes more suitcases
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,531
    TGOHF said:

    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Dair said:

    A politician doing the honourable thing is an alien concept to these zoomers.

    She was "stepped down" by the party machine. They forgot to tell her about it until later...
    There's nothing confusing about what happened. She resigned the whip, probably with prompting which is fair enough, and that automatically suspended her as an SNP member under SNP rules.

    She may have been aware of this effect when she resigned the whip but that is the effect none the less. Resigning the whip was the right thing to do, allowing a proper investigation to take place.

    It is a very good contrast to Alistair Carmichael who continues to cling to his position and embarrass his party.
    Dair - can you explain where the National got this nugget from ?

    "It is understood the initial police investigations will not involve Thomson herself."

    The BBC.........http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34395392
  • Mr. Clipp, I had an Indian lady call about a problem with my computer. Informed her the main user was on holiday. Cue silence, and her hanging up.

    I despise such practices.
  • Mr. Clipp, I had an Indian lady call about a problem with my computer. Informed her the main user was on holiday. Cue silence, and her hanging up.

    I despise such practices.

    I answer honestly by saying I don't have a windows based machine
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PSbook: Firm owned by SNP MP boasted about selling Scottish social housing to English investors http://t.co/Yzr9uWPPAN http://t.co/nNfqiWd5C3

    You've linked to a story about an Independent MP.

    As usual, you prefer to lie than tell the truth.
    That's a pathetic response.

  • Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The new line from Dair seems to confirm that Zoomer central have decided to jettison Thomson to protect Nicola

    @kevverage: So presumably she must have knowingly withheld this information? https://t.co/J3pye2ol2e

    Dair seems to believe that when someone does something illegal and abominable whilst an SNP MP and also whilst a prominent SNP supporter and peddling the SNP line then its alright for the SNP when she is then thrown out. lt trancadentally becomes an independent MP who perpetrated the horrors.
    People like him have to believe this of course because if one SNP MP can lie so brazenly (when only pearls of wisdom are supposed to fall from the mouths of the SNP) then they can all be a bunch of liars - not least when it comes to defending their own party prejudice.
    Michelle Thomson has been a member of the SNP for less than one year. She was an SNP MP for less than 5 months. She was suspended as a result of recent news.

    There is nothing more the SNP can be expected to do. No scrutiny of candidates will ever be foolproof. However, the SNP seem to have done a reasonable job given the constant scrutiny from all sides, only one out of 50 new MPs (many of whom are very recent members) appears to be so problematic.

    The only politician for a Scottish seat which we know, by their own admission, to have lied brazenly is Alistair Carmichael. His party support his lying and want him to continue to represent them.
    It says a huge amount for the SNP that they would select someone who hadn't been a long-standing member of the party. It says a huge amount that they didn't do any proper vetting - as these allegations predate her selection as a candidate.

    This is all about the SNP, their selection criteria and their inability do carry out the necessary checks with any sense of due diligence.

    A big fail.
  • Dair said:

    "Lord Hanningfield has been charged with false accounting in relation to allegations of expenses fraud."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34401900

    The quality control over their Tory peers is quite woeful. Another Tory bound for slammer mayhaps?
    He's an Independent peer.
    Not when he was appointed, he wasn't.
  • watford30 said:

    JonathanD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @bbclaurak: Now HIlary Benn, Falconer, and Eagle all disputing Corbyn's ruling out of nuclear

    How can they dispute it? Surely it is the PMs right to decide on issues like that. The cabinet can vote on renewing Trident but they can't vote to force the PM to press the button.
    lt would make a good film though. How would they get the codes out of him? Probably been done in a US context.
    What button and codes? PM doesn't have any.
    PM authorises the sub commander to launch the weapons. RN send an authentication code.
    The V boat captain could release right now should he so choose, but he doesn't since no one has issued him the authority.
    Thats another film.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421

    Mr. Clipp, I had an Indian lady call about a problem with my computer. Informed her the main user was on holiday. Cue silence, and her hanging up.

    I despise such practices.

    I had a call yesterday where the chap didn't even bother going into the PPI/RTA ambulance chasing spiel. He just said "Don't worry about it" after I confirmed my name and hung up !
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Dair said:

    "Lord Hanningfield has been charged with false accounting in relation to allegations of expenses fraud."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34401900

    The quality control over their Tory peers is quite woeful. Another Tory bound for slammer mayhaps?
    Not since 2010.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    This is all about the SNP, their selection criteria and their inability do carry out the necessary checks with any sense of due diligence.

    A big fail.

    When Nicola was toruing the country and doing photo opps with Michelle, touting her as the face of Scottish Business, did she never stop to ask exactly what that business was?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Dair said:

    "Lord Hanningfield has been charged with false accounting in relation to allegations of expenses fraud."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34401900

    The quality control over their Tory peers is quite woeful. Another Tory bound for slammer mayhaps?
    He's an Independent peer.
    Not when he was appointed, he wasn't.
    Is this about former SNP MSP Michelle Thomson?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421
    edited September 2015
    Lord Hanningfield and Michelle Thompson are both independents ;p

    Hanningfield was a Tory, Thompson was SNP.

    Hope that's cleared it up for everyone ;)
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Some rang me pretending to be from my bank - and wanted to discuss my account.

    After about 90secs of me saying "Why do I need to confirm who I am and give you my details - you rang me", she hung up.

    Mr. Clipp, I had an Indian lady call about a problem with my computer. Informed her the main user was on holiday. Cue silence, and her hanging up.

    I despise such practices.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,997
    Pulpstar said:

    Mr. Clipp, I had an Indian lady call about a problem with my computer. Informed her the main user was on holiday. Cue silence, and her hanging up.

    I despise such practices.

    I had a call yesterday where the chap didn't even bother going into the PPI/RTA ambulance chasing spiel. He just said "Don't worry about it" after I confirmed my name and hung up !
    A chatty "How is the weather in India today?" usually floors them. You are being nice, but have gone horribly off their script....should they keep talking to you? Or hang up?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,531
    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PSbook: Firm owned by SNP MP boasted about selling Scottish social housing to English investors http://t.co/Yzr9uWPPAN http://t.co/nNfqiWd5C3

    You've linked to a story about an Independent MP.

    As usual, you prefer to lie than tell the truth.
    Were they bought when she was an MP or was she just your usual company owner building a business. Given the frothers on here whine on about being all right to earn money , it seems they only want Tories to earn money otherwise it is BAD.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Michelle Thomson has been a member of the SNP for less than one year. She was an SNP MP for less than 5 months. She was suspended as a result of recent news.

    There is nothing more the SNP can be expected to do. No scrutiny of candidates will ever be foolproof. However, the SNP seem to have done a reasonable job given the constant scrutiny from all sides, only one out of 50 new MPs (many of whom are very recent members) appears to be so problematic.

    The only politician for a Scottish seat which we know, by their own admission, to have lied brazenly is Alistair Carmichael. His party support his lying and want him to continue to represent them.

    It says a huge amount for the SNP that they would select someone who hadn't been a long-standing member of the party. It says a huge amount that they didn't do any proper vetting - as these allegations predate her selection as a candidate.

    This is all about the SNP, their selection criteria and their inability do carry out the necessary checks with any sense of due diligence.

    A big fail.
    This is desperate, comical stuff even for loyalist zoomers.

    The SNP had the (rather noble goal) of extending the scope of their representation into other sections of Scottish civil society beyond the traditional "involved in politics since a student" cohort.

    But the zoomers have a problem with this.

    No party will ever have a completely foolproof candidate scrutiny mechanism. Michelle Thomson has multiple businesses and there is little way that a selection panel can understand the depth of all of these businesses. It is perfectly conceivable they asked if she felt any of her business practises were incompatible and told them they were. There's only so much a selection process can be expected to do.

    The positive is that the comical outrage bus jumping and virtue signalling from the loyalist zoomers on PB is providing much entertainment.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,531
    MattW said:

    Dair is reminding me of the Nippy Nicky line on those SNP street thugs.

    "Nothing to do with us ... whistle whistle whistle".

    Expelled from membership 2 days later iirc.

    You mean like these ones........http://wingsoverscotland.com/an-outbreak-of-coyness/#more-76076
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    http://www.capx.co/someone-in-labour-nuke-jeremy-corbyn-please/

    Iain Martin is excelling himself these days.
  • Dair said:

    "Lord Hanningfield has been charged with false accounting in relation to allegations of expenses fraud."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34401900

    The quality control over their Tory peers is quite woeful. Another Tory bound for slammer mayhaps?
    He's an Independent peer.
    Not when he was appointed, he wasn't.
    I know, I was just ribbing Dair.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    saddened said:

    Dair said:

    "Lord Hanningfield has been charged with false accounting in relation to allegations of expenses fraud."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34401900

    The quality control over their Tory peers is quite woeful. Another Tory bound for slammer mayhaps?
    Not since 2010.

    So deselected by the party which put him in place 5 yeas ago, yet he is STILL in a position to legislate.

    Nothing wrong with an unelected body with membership for life. Nothing at all...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,986
    edited September 2015
    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The new line from Dair seems to confirm that Zoomer central have decided to jettison Thomson to protect Nicola

    @kevverage: So presumably she must have knowingly withheld this information? https://t.co/J3pye2ol2e

    Dair seems to believe that when someone does something illegal and abominable whilst an SNP MP and also whilst a prominent SNP supporter and peddling the SNP line then its alright for the SNP when she is then thrown out. lt trancadentally becomes an independent MP who perpetrated the horrors.
    People like him have to believe this of course because if one SNP MP can lie so brazenly (when only pearls of wisdom are supposed to fall from the mouths of the SNP) then they can all be a bunch of liars - not least when it comes to defending their own party prejudice.
    Michelle Thomson has been a member of the SNP for less than one year. She was an SNP MP for less than 5 months. She was suspended as a result of recent news.

    There is nothing more the SNP can be expected to do. No scrutiny of candidates will ever be foolproof. However, the SNP seem to have done a reasonable job given the constant scrutiny from all sides, only one out of 50 new MPs (many of whom are very recent members) appears to be so problematic.

    The only politician for a Scottish seat which we know, by their own admission, to have lied brazenly is Alistair Carmichael. His party support his lying and want him to continue to represent them.
    Balls!

    Thomson worked in close cahoots with the Gnats for 2 years running Business for Scotland.

    When they selected her as an MP her activities sourcing Scottish former Council houses to sell off to English investors had been on public record and the internet for years.

    She was toxic even without all these highly questionable financial manipulations.

    The only things the SNP could have done more were to have been competent, done their homework, possessed some ethics, and lived out their own alleged values.

    Which is quite a lot, really.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I think we shouldn't interrupt them myself

    Европейский комиссар ‏@MoodySlayerUK 2m2 minutes ago

    Shadow cabinet members keep beating CCHQ to the airwaves to condemn Jeremy Corbyn. #Lab15
    Bravo @UKLabour
    Try harder @Conservatives
  • Miss Plato, the Conservatives may just ignore Labour for the next three years or so, and let the party try and eat its own face.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JonB_89: Corbyn "praises our oppressors as heroes and justifies Stalin’s destruction" says the Lithuanian ambassador http://t.co/06r73nHwrt
  • Cold calls: When they are after my other half and I answer, they then say "Is that Mr XYZ?". My response of "No, but I am Ms XYZ's husband" usually causes some confusion.
  • Dair said:



    This is desperate, comical stuff even for loyalist zoomers.

    The SNP had the (rather noble goal) of extending the scope of their representation into other sections of Scottish civil society beyond the traditional "involved in politics since a student" cohort.

    But the zoomers have a problem with this.

    No party will ever have a completely foolproof candidate scrutiny mechanism. Michelle Thomson has multiple businesses and there is little way that a selection panel can understand the depth of all of these businesses. It is perfectly conceivable they asked if she felt any of her business practises were incompatible and told them they were. There's only so much a selection process can be expected to do.

    The positive is that the comical outrage bus jumping and virtue signalling from the loyalist zoomers on PB is providing much entertainment.

    Name-calling only makes you look bad - not those pointing out the ludicrous lines you have been spinning for the past few hours.

    The SNP got this one wrong. Badly wrong. They selected someone without proper scrutiny and it has backfired.

    Trying to pretend this has nothing to do with the SNP makes you look really rather foolish.

    But continue trying spin and smear your way out of it. Everyone can see right through it.
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