Not wishing to pile on to last night's thread - but I was intrigued by one of your comments. You said you knew the internal workings of the Tory Party pretty well. And this was to @MarqueeMark who is probably the most plugged in of us all given he knew about Osborne's policies before everyone else did.
Where did you get your insight? I'm a Party member and wouldn't claim to know much more than 10% more than Joe Average.
Speaking to ancedotes - my aunt (like my mum) has voted for multiple parties, isn't really left wing - has voted LD, Conservative and Labour - and likes Corbyn. Moral of the story: ancedotes aren't always representative (I doubt most floaters will like Corbyn). While Corbyn winning GEs is doubtful, so is the idea hordes of people will become Tories (in this sense of becoming members/activists). As I said yesterday, the Conservative party is put up with because it's considered the only viable option. It's not something enthusiastically supported by most people.
I've said before that I no longer read anything NPXMP posts re Corbyn - I glance at the first line and scroll by - it's simply incredible and totally unconvincing.
I can't think of a poster who's dropped so far in my estimation, and can still comment here.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
But without supporting the IRA, being an apologist for other terrorists, appearing on propaganda channels for Putin and the Iranian regime, lauding Venezuela, Cuba and (in the past) East Germany and the Soviet Union, or appearing disrespectful to those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain.
It is completely baffling that Corbyn supporters don't get this point.
Agreed.
This is why for all his 'Mr reasonable@ facade I feel NPXMP is so contemptible.
I think that's harsh; Nick has always been polite and courteous. What I do see is a living example of the old adage "Man is not a rational animal. He is a rationalising animal".
Agreed and Nick P isn't the only one. It is good to have polite posts, they are appreciated even if you disagree with the content.
When someone politely admits they've misled their supporters from day one it doesn't make the pill any sweeter.
Being a polite poster cuts no ice. tim was incredibly rude to people but he knew his onions.
The nice guy stuff on here from NP cuts no ice either AFAIAC, from all the cobblers he posted about Gordon Brown and there being no challenge to his leadership, then the nonsense he posted about Broxtowe at GE2015, (and a fair amount of less than generous stuff in 2010), this from someone who has previously said he never posts anything he knows not to be true..
If you start off from the other side of the coin and initially not believe anything Nick Palmer posts, you might have a better chance of gleaning the wheat from the chaff.
The Conservative Party is not "Put up with" It got more votes than any other party..that is why it is in Government..
So? That doesn't prove the Conservative party isn't 'put up' with. Just because people vote a party in, doesn't suddenly mean they enjoy popularity. The last 'really popular' government was probably Blair in 1997.
Benn is almost as bad as Corbyn and just as unprincipled..
Key word 'almost'. Michael Howard was arguably 'almost' as bad as IDS but he made modest progress in 2005 and took the Tories to around 195 seats from 160 or so
The 'progress' that Howard made was to prevent a total wipe out following IDS's failings and the media assault on him. This may have been unfair on IDS but Howard and the Tories managed to survive and further credit to Howard he saw through a sensible election process. The only sadness is the somewhat unhinged behaviour of the loser in that contest.
The Conservative Party is not "Put up with" It got more votes than any other party..that is why it is in Government..
Better to say it is not beloved by many I suppose, although frankly i don't know why any party should be beloved by anyone - even if you love the founding or current ideology, those both change, and then you are getting very emotional about something inherently grubby, partisan politics, not even ideas. Attachment to a party seems ok, but of the main parties, the Tories seem regarded as lacking as many obviously fervent supporters in the 'love the cause' mould.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I sort of see what you are saying, though it is obviously something you can't possibly know.
All I can say is that my parents are working class swing voters who voted Tory last time. They were repelled by Miliband's weirdness. They were initially appalled by Corbyn - they read the Express and bought the whole scare story. But after a brief chat with me they changed their minds and decided to give Corbyn a go. I have a feeling Corbyn is a lot more saleable than Miliband ever was to the uncommitted. Let's face it, how many people know somebody like Miliband? Whereas most people have a slightly eccentric member of their family who resembles Corbyn.
As a Labour party member until the selection of Corbyn my vote for the foreseeable future is going to the Lib Dems
...Just about everything about him tbh
I'm personally ok under a Tory government and ironically think some of their policies will do my area some good
I live in a very middle class area though and have grave concerns for those not born as lucky as I was since at the moment I don't see any party having policies that will help them.
Correct, £12bn on foreign aid, a similar amount to the EU, heaven knows how much processing and catering for migrants, we waste £billions we don't need to.
OT In case anyone's interested, it appears there is a lot of hard work is going in to make sure all Conservative Party members in London are registered for the primary... How are PBLondonTories intending to vote? I attended the huntings in Wandsworth last week and came away with Syed and Zac in my top two. Syed was convincing and, given a couple of years of publicity, would make a credible and creditable candidate. However, we don't have a couple of years to get his face known, so I'm intending to plump for Zac, who was confident, reasonably charismatic and starts with the advantage of name and face recognition. Down here - darkest Tooting - we all know Sadiq well as he was a local councillor before 2010, so we're keen to select the person most likely to beat him.
Personally I try to be polite and reasonable, though I concede given I willsurely be as beholden to my own biases as most people, I may not always succeed with the latter as much as I think, but I did find it amusing that such was accussed of being as a tiresome 'act' the other day. Tiresome I can live with, but if one is not sporting a particularly gimmick for an obvious purpose, I doubt many people on here are performing some kind of act, what would be the point?
Always assume sincerity I say - and inconsistencies occur because people's beliefs are not always consistent, even if they think they are, in fact sometimes they are both sincerely held and, when you think about them, contradictory. Causes great fun and internal conflict.
Why do UKIP conferences always look as though they are just thrown together? Answer - because they probably are. Why were photographers allowed to constantly walk up and down, blocking the view? It's time they got this right for goodness sake.
I thought Nigel Farage started off quite well. He was less shouty and sweaty but then had to spoil it with his "that woman" (Nicola Sturgeon) and the cheap joke about "piggy in the middle." No wonder his party has problems attracting women voters.
I'm afraid you make a very fair point, canvassing pre GE the number of women that like Ukip but not Nigel is too many to ignore.
The people who voted for the Conservatives at the GE were not putting up with it.. they voted for it...Voting is not compulsory..the voters didn't have to vote for any one..
Not wishing to pile on to last night's thread - but I was intrigued by one of your comments. You said you knew the internal workings of the Tory Party pretty well. And this was to @MarqueeMark who is probably the most plugged in of us all given he knew about Osborne's policies before everyone else did.
Where did you get your insight? I'm a Party member and wouldn't claim to know much more than 10% more than Joe Average.
Speaking to ancedotes - my aunt (like my mum) has voted for multiple parties, isn't really left wing - has voted LD, Conservative and Labour - and likes Corbyn. Moral of the story: ancedotes aren't always representative (I doubt most floaters will like Corbyn). While Corbyn winning GEs is doubtful, so is the idea hordes of people will become Tories (in this sense of becoming members/activists). As I said yesterday, the Conservative party is put up with because it's considered the only viable option. It's not something enthusiastically supported by most people.
I said on the subject of who the Tory party are likely to elect, that I knew information not on the complete workings of the Tory party (my reply was as far as I recall, 'I think I do this subject). As for where I get the info from, it's just Westminster Village stuff - having read a number of articles on Osborne and how he has created a base in the Tory party. Janan Ganesh wrote a particularly good article on George Osborne sometime ago, that I've not been able to find since. If we were to believe Conservative party activists on here, the Tory party will never do anything wrong, or make any mistake ever, or elect anyone unelectable (despite the fact they have done so in the past).
The Conservative Party is not "Put up with" It got more votes than any other party..that is why it is in Government..
So? That doesn't prove the Conservative party isn't 'put up' with. Just because people vote a party in, doesn't suddenly mean they enjoy popularity. The last 'really popular' government was probably Blair in 1997.
The Conservative Party is not "Put up with" It got more votes than any other party..that is why it is in Government..
It's not arrogance. YouGov did some polling some weeks ago, and found the Tory party overall were pretty disliked - Labour were just simply disliked more. It supports the theory that people choose between who is the least bad, as opposed to the best option for the country. As for the Tories being in power more than any other party I don't see how that disputes my point - the Tories are famed for being competent, not for being likeable, or for having the interests of ordinary people at the heart of their polices and outlook.
The Conservative Party is not "Put up with" It got more votes than any other party..that is why it is in Government..
So? That doesn't prove the Conservative party isn't 'put up' with. Just because people vote a party in, doesn't suddenly mean they enjoy popularity. The last 'really popular' government was probably Blair in 1997.
Thatcher in 1983, Major in 1992 (he got more votes than any other PM in our history despite his loss of seats), Atlee in 1945 etc.
Not wishing to pile on to last night's thread - but I was intrigued by one of your comments. You said you knew the internal workings of the Tory Party pretty well. And this was to @MarqueeMark who is probably the most plugged in of us all given he knew about Osborne's policies before everyone else did.
Where did you get your insight? I'm a Party member and wouldn't claim to know much more than 10% more than Joe Average.
Speaking to ancedotes - my aunt (like my mum) has voted for multiple parties, isn't really left wing - has voted LD, Conservative and Labour - and likes Corbyn. Moral of the story: ancedotes aren't always representative (I doubt most floaters will like Corbyn). While Corbyn winning GEs is doubtful, so is the idea hordes of people will become Tories (in this sense of becoming members/activists). As I said yesterday, the Conservative party is put up with because it's considered the only viable option. It's not something enthusiastically supported by most people.
I said on the subject of who the Tory party are likely to elect, that I knew information not on the complete workings of the Tory party (my reply was as far as I recall, 'I think I do this subject). As for where I get the info from, it's just Westminster Village stuff - having read a number of articles on Osborne and how he has created a base in the Tory party. Janan Ganesh wrote a particularly good article on George Osborne sometime ago, that I've not been able to find since. If we were to believe Conservative party activists on here, the Tory party will never do anything wrong, or make any mistake ever, or elect anyone unelectable (despite the fact they have done so in the past).
I have always said that changing leader is a dangerous time for any party. That includes the Tories. It's always dangerous when you have lost. Tories did well in '79 and '05. Who is to say it was not down to luck?
Square Root..Lying on a betting site is certainly not irrelevant..it makes people doubt your word.. and I was never impressed by his so called knowledge..apart from his blatant lie, his obsessions with Osborne and Camerons thinning hair were bordering on the ridiculous..
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I sort of see what you are saying, though it is obviously something you can't possibly know.
All I can say is that my parents are working class swing voters who voted Tory last time. They were repelled by Miliband's weirdness. They were initially appalled by Corbyn - they read the Express and bought the whole scare story. But after a brief chat with me they changed their minds and decided to give Corbyn a go. I have a feeling Corbyn is a lot more saleable than Miliband ever was to the uncommitted. Let's face it, how many people know somebody like Miliband? Whereas most people have a slightly eccentric member of their family who resembles Corbyn.
"I was not the best because I won elections quickly. I was the best because the Selectorate loved me. Win the Selectorate and you will win your freedom!"
I can't say I've seen majors government defended as popular despite all those votes. I assume because things went south pretty quickly, but still.
Hmmm. Tbf, the government's popularity didn't last long (Black Wednesday pretty much killed it), and often the 1992-97 period is known for how badly things disintegrated.
You know I love you - but I think you're over-reaching in more ways than one on this subject and others.
PB is a great place to learn and I do it everyday. I'm picking up an impression that you're projecting a lot of opinion based on your emotions and dismissing the views of those humans who've been here before, rather too quickly.
We aren't attempting to be mean - we're trying to offer insight into why bright shiny stuff dulls quickly and that old fogies speak from experience. I found your posts about +55s very peculiar - somehow they don't want the best for their family line. It made no sense at all.
IMO, you were a great deal more interesting as a poster before you started the victim thing. @MyBurningEars is a self-declared near Communist and isn't some old fogey Tory trying to spoil your academic pride. His comments about how difficult O levels were to his A Level students is just a matter of fact.
Not wishing to pile on to last night's thread - but I was intrigued by one of your comments. You said you knew the internal workings of the Tory Party pretty well. And this was to @MarqueeMark who is probably the most plugged in of us all given he knew about Osborne's policies before everyone else did.
Where did you get your insight? I'm a Party member and wouldn't claim to know much more than 10% more than Joe Average.
Speaking to ancedotes - my aunt (like my mum) has voted for multiple parties, isn't really left wing - has voted LD, Conservative and Labour - and likes Corbyn. Moral of the story: ancedotes aren't always representative (I doubt most floaters will like Corbyn). While Corbyn winning GEs is doubtful, so is the idea hordes of people will become Tories (in this sense of becoming members/activists). As I said yesterday, the Conservative party is put up with because it's considered the only viable option. It's not something enthusiastically supported by most people.
I said on the subject of who the Tory party are likely to elect, that I knew information not on the complete workings of the Tory party (my reply was as far as I recall, 'I think I do this subject). As for where I get the info from, it's just Westminster Village stuff - having read a number of articles on Osborne and how he has created a base in the Tory party. Janan Ganesh wrote a particularly good article on George Osborne sometime ago, that I've not been able to find since. If we were to believe Conservative party activists on here, the Tory party will never do anything wrong, or make any mistake ever, or elect anyone unelectable (despite the fact they have done so in the past).
I have no idea what being nice or popular has to do with running an amazingly complex organisation like ..The Government.. It is an extremely difficult job regardless of which party is in power..and I certainly would not expect them to go for the nice or popular options..they should simply govern according to the finances available and the current global situations..
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I sort of see what you are saying, though it is obviously something you can't possibly know.
All I can say is that my parents are working class swing voters who voted Tory last time. They were repelled by Miliband's weirdness. They were initially appalled by Corbyn - they read the Express and bought the whole scare story. But after a brief chat with me they changed their minds and decided to give Corbyn a go. I have a feeling Corbyn is a lot more saleable than Miliband ever was to the uncommitted. Let's face it, how many people know somebody like Miliband? Whereas most people have a slightly eccentric member of their family who resembles Corbyn.
If my parents were worried about my feelings they wouldn't keep going on about that bloody sander I borrowed once and unknowingly returned broken.
It was just an anecdote. It has been such a widely held notion that Labour can't win with a left wing leader, and one I have always held myself, that seeing anything that contradicts it seems notable.
How interesting. How many London Tories post on PB? I can't think of any bar you, @peter_from_putney and @MaxPB - my apologies to everyone I've forgotten.
OT In case anyone's interested, it appears there is a lot of hard work is going in to make sure all Conservative Party members in London are registered for the primary... How are PBLondonTories intending to vote? I attended the huntings in Wandsworth last week and came away with Syed and Zac in my top two. Syed was convincing and, given a couple of years of publicity, would make a credible and creditable candidate. However, we don't have a couple of years to get his face known, so I'm intending to plump for Zac, who was confident, reasonably charismatic and starts with the advantage of name and face recognition. Down here - darkest Tooting - we all know Sadiq well as he was a local councillor before 2010, so we're keen to select the person most likely to beat him.
Personally I try to be polite and reasonable, though I concede given I willsurely be as beholden to my own biases as most people, I may not always succeed with the latter as much as I think, but I did find it amusing that such was accussed of being as a tiresome 'act' the other day. Tiresome I can live with, but if one is not sporting a particularly gimmick for an obvious purpose, I doubt many people on here are performing some kind of act, what would be the point?
Always assume sincerity I say - and inconsistencies occur because people's beliefs are not always consistent, even if they think they are, in fact sometimes they are both sincerely held and, when you think about them, contradictory. Causes great fun and internal conflict.
Not wishing to pile on to last night's thread - but I was intrigued by one of your comments. You said you knew the internal workings of the Tory Party pretty well. And this was to @MarqueeMark who is probably the most plugged in of us all given he knew about Osborne's policies before everyone else did.
Where did you get your insight? I'm a Party member and wouldn't claim to know much more than 10% more than Joe Average.
Speaking to ancedotes - my aunt (like my mum) has voted for multiple parties, isn't really left wing - has voted LD, Conservative and Labour - and likes Corbyn. Moral of the story: ancedotes aren't always representative (I doubt most floaters will like Corbyn). While Corbyn winning GEs is doubtful, so is the idea hordes of people will become Tories (in this sense of becoming members/activists). As I said yesterday, the Conservative party is put up with because it's considered the only viable option. It's not something enthusiastically supported by most people.
I said on the subject of who the Tory party are likely to elect, that I knew information not on the complete workings of the Tory party (my reply was as far as I recall, 'I think I do this subject). As for where I get the info from, it's just Westminster Village stuff - having read a number of articles on Osborne and how he has created a base in the Tory party. Janan Ganesh wrote a particularly good article on George Osborne sometime ago, that I've not been able to find since. If we were to believe Conservative party activists on here, the Tory party will never do anything wrong, or make any mistake ever, or elect anyone unelectable (despite the fact they have done so in the past).
I have always said that changing leader is a dangerous time for any party. That includes the Tories. It's always dangerous when you have lost. Tories did well in '79 and '05. Who is to say it was not down to luck?
I think all political leaders enjoy some degree of luck (though some are more luckier than others). I don't really see the gains the Tories made in 2005 as luck. At some point, people get sick of governments, and feel ready to opt for a change - I think something along those lines occured in 2005. Obviously, not enough people thought that Michael Howard was a better prospect as PM than Tony Blair, but people were starting to get fed up of Labour and had realised Blair wasn't a 'pretty straight kind of guy'. In 1979, I guess there's an argument that the Tories' decision to elect an outsider in Thatcher and Labour's mishandling of everything was luck. I suppose there's a lot in the saying 'oppositions don't win elections, government's lose elections'.
The Conservative Party is not "Put up with" It got more votes than any other party..that is why it is in Government..
So? That doesn't prove the Conservative party isn't 'put up' with. Just because people vote a party in, doesn't suddenly mean they enjoy popularity. The last 'really popular' government was probably Blair in 1997.
Thatcher in 1983, Major in 1992 (he got more votes than any other PM in our history despite his loss of seats), Atlee in 1945 etc.
I have no idea what being nice or popular has to do with running an amazingly complex organisation like ..The Government.. It is an extremely difficult job regardless of which party is in power..and I certainly would not expect them to go for the nice or popular options..they should simply govern according to the finances available and the current global situations..
Well said Mr Dodd but I'm afraid society simply can't or won't stomach the truth. Look at the National debt, its mind boggling and growing by approx. £100bn a year, this is unsustainable. Look at all the nonsense about austerity when govt spending is rising, I'm afraid your message, however pertinent, simply doesn't resonate with the electorate.
Personally I try to be polite and reasonable, though I concede given I willsurely be as beholden to my own biases as most people, I may not always succeed with the latter as much as I think, but I did find it amusing that such was accussed of being as a tiresome 'act' the other day. Tiresome I can live with, but if one is not sporting a particularly gimmick for an obvious purpose, I doubt many people on here are performing some kind of act, what would be the point?
Always assume sincerity I say - and inconsistencies occur because people's beliefs are not always consistent, even if they think they are, in fact sometimes they are both sincerely held and, when you think about them, contradictory. Causes great fun and internal conflict.
You're too kind.
In fact it's just an online persona - in real life I am a vicious, racist, sexist, evil minded so and so, so I get a vicarious thrill by pretending otherwise
Apologies to Mr Dancer: this might be a little too modern for him.
I am, apparently, Roman Emperor Constantine. You may all address me as such in the future you unworthy, unwashed plebs.
Harumph. The Byzantine Emperors WERE Roman Emperors.
EDIT: Looks like I'm a republic-killer.
You are The Roman Emperor Caesar Augustus! Known by history as one of the greatest rulers of all time, thanks to your tactical and military genius, you created the Imperial tradition of Rome almost singlehandedly. The kind of autocratic power that would be the epitome of power for the next two thousand years. In time, all rulers would attempt to connect theirs to yours for the sake of legitimacy as your rule became the legacy of kingship itself.
Sometimes I do wonder. I spent my professional life being very successful and a bit mean as I had high expectations.
20yrs of that was spent as a recovery job specialist who would turn a mess into something positive and a great place to work. None of that included making excuses for sub-par or slacker behaviour.
I often feel like an alien when discussing this stuff - that I made a career of it tells me that people like me are necessary.
I have no idea what being nice or popular has to do with running an amazingly complex organisation like ..The Government.. It is an extremely difficult job regardless of which party is in power..and I certainly would not expect them to go for the nice or popular options..they should simply govern according to the finances available and the current global situations..
All I can say is that my parents are working class swing voters who voted Tory last time. They were repelled by Miliband's weirdness. They were initially appalled by Corbyn - they read the Express and bought the whole scare story. But after a brief chat with me they changed their minds and decided to give Corbyn a go. I have a feeling Corbyn is a lot more saleable than Miliband ever was to the uncommitted. Let's face it, how many people know somebody like Miliband? Whereas most people have a slightly eccentric member of their family who resembles Corbyn.
If my parents were worried about my feelings they wouldn't keep going on about that bloody sander I borrowed once and unknowingly returned broken.
It was just an anecdote. It has been such a widely held notion that Labour can't win with a left wing leader, and one I have always held myself, that seeing anything that contradicts it seems notable.
Recidivist
I think your anecdote about your parents provides some insight. Too many on here are underestimating Corbyn's potential electoral appeal. Namely, that he is demonstrably not 'like all the rest'. For people who would like to vote for someone who is in their mind authentic and not a hypocrite, I can see that he potentially appeals in a way that Ed Miliband never did.
However, on the other hand there is the history: the links with the IRA, Hammas etc. which the press and the Tories will certainly go to town with. The question is are the Labour-inclined voters who will be repelled by all that stuff more in number than the Labour-inclined voters who are basically anti-Politician, and to whom Corbyn might appeal. Corbyn's personal abstemiousness, the fact that he is one of the few MPs to have come out well from the expenses investigations will be attractive to some (it's why he succeeded in the leadership election, in a way that Diane Abbot could never have done). And the more he gets attacked, the more the view that he is a victim of the establishment will be reinforced.
Finally and personally, I might add that as someone who has always been a Labour supporter, and who voted for Ed Miliband's Labour after some hesitation, I definitely would not vote for a Corbyn-led Labour party. Like Manchester Kurt my vote is with the LDs for the time being. And in my case that matters, because I live in a constituency in which the Labour majority over the Tories is only around 250 votes.
I don't discount that Corbyn has appeal of not being 'like the rest'. I do, however, have doubts that he is as different from them as some of his more strident supporters present him as - he is no stranger to obfuscating, cliched answers - and therefore that the extent of that particular appeal of his might not be as effective as they hope, once that becomes more apparent.
You know I love you - but I think you're over-reaching in more ways than one on this subject and others. ....
I love you too Plato (I think you're only PB Tory that does love me!)
I just simply disagree with some (well, tbh a lot of people) on here. I definitely feel PB at many times can be insightful - but at other times I find this site to be reactionary. For example, my post on Corbyn yesterday. I was simply offering a slightly alternative view on him. I'm not a Corbynite, and for the most I don't think he'll be winning an election anytime soon. However, I offered the opinion that part of the reason why his approval ratings are so low is undoubtedly that he has been the recipient of pretty bad press in recent days/weeks. Suddenly, a hoard of PBers - directly and indirectly - appear to think, and assert (directly to me, and indirectly) that I've completely attributed Corbyn's bad rep to some press conspiracy. When, in my post I did also say that is was due to his divisive nature i.e. his 'colourful' views on a range of subjects. Yet this appeared to be ignored, and for not taking a very disdainful tone on Corbyn, I felt like I was getting jumped on by several PBers and bracketed in as a deluded Corbyn supporter. Likewise, for a misunderstanding (I had misread subition's post, and made an ill-advised comment on Labour supporters and Corbyn, now thinking back) I was accused of trolling. I was mystified by that accusation.
I don't deny that @MyBurningEars comments on O-Levels being harder isn't academic fact. Nor do I think the education system doesn't have it's (many) issues. What I dislike is that this ire towards the system seems to be aimed more at students than anything else. Particularly that most of the criticisms regarding grade inflation don't come in the form of criticising the system, the Exam boards, Ofsted, or politicians, but those who are older patting themselves on the back for how great their grades are in comparison to grades of my generation. I don't like the idea, that was suggested a short while ago on PB, to rub into my generation's faces when we are older regarding grade inflation, how our grades are supposedly worth less than previous generations. Even if it is when we are older it feels vengeful and also pointless - almost that we are at fault for the way the system is and that we mustn't be too happy when we do well, at GCSE, A-Level, or degree level otherwise we are getting too 'cocky' and whatnot. That is what I was getting upset about and how does feel that whenever young people are mentioned on this website, its' always in a negative manner - that our grades, and degrees are worthless. That can be a bit demoralising, from my POV.
Do I think over 55s don't want the best for their families? No, I don't think that. But I do think that most people vote in self-interest - and while that self-interest can, and often does extend to children this tends to be when parents are responsible for their welfare. I don't get the impression as much as they love me, that when my grandparents vote Labour (grandma) or Tory (granddad) they are doing so thinking of me, or my mother - but rather out of routine (for my grandma this is definitely the case) and concern issues such as immigration (granddad) and self-interest.
The Conservative Party is not "Put up with" It got more votes than any other party..that is why it is in Government..
So? That doesn't prove the Conservative party isn't 'put up' with. Just because people vote a party in, doesn't suddenly mean they enjoy popularity. The last 'really popular' government was probably Blair in 1997.
Thatcher in 1983, Major in 1992 (he got more votes than any other PM in our history despite his loss of seats), Atlee in 1945 etc.
Major in 1992 (until Black Wednesday) was pretty popular. He got 14 million votes - that's more than any other PM in our history!
I don't discount that Corbyn has appeal of not being 'like the rest'. I do, however, have doubts that he is as different from them as some of his more strident supporters present him as - he is no stranger to obfuscating, cliched answers - and therefore that the extent of that particular appeal of his might not be as effective as they hope, once that becomes more apparent.
Ultimately, it's about perception rather than reality. But there is still enough that is distinctive about Corbyn's approach to allow him to differentiate himself effectively from the 'speaks in soundbites', careerist majority.
"Privately, several Ukip figures resent the party’s handling of the weeks after the election result. Mr Farage resigned (as he pledged to do if he failed to win his race in South Thanet) then “unresigned” before demoting rivals. There are mutterings of a personality cult.
“Totally unnecessarily he made the test of the election whether he became an MP or not. So we found ourselves seen through the prism of failure when we won 4m voters,” said one senior figure."
"Nearly all of the attendees in Doncaster still see Mr Farage as an electoral asset. They are keen to campaign for Brexit. But away from the tweed and ale and blokey bonhomie, there are serious questions being asked about what happens now Ukip’s insurgency is an established force.
As Professor Matthew Goodwin at the University of Kent, puts it: “The challenge for Nigel Farage is whether he sees Ukip as a long-term political party, not merely a vehicle to campaign for a British exit from the European Union.” "
Apologies to Mr Dancer: this might be a little too modern for him.
I am, apparently, Roman Emperor Constantine. You may all address me as such in the future you unworthy, unwashed plebs.
Harumph. The Byzantine Emperors WERE Roman Emperors.
EDIT: Looks like I'm a republic-killer.
You are The Roman Emperor Caesar Augustus! Known by history as one of the greatest rulers of all time, thanks to your tactical and military genius, you created the Imperial tradition of Rome almost singlehandedly. The kind of autocratic power that would be the epitome of power for the next two thousand years. In time, all rulers would attempt to connect theirs to yours for the sake of legitimacy as your rule became the legacy of kingship itself.
Classic case of different headline writer from the main piece, as the quiz title just says Roman Emperor I see.
I am Servilia Caepionis apparently, not any kind of Emperor - I feel cheated from what the quiz promised me.
OT Anyone watched Hand of God on Prime? My TV schedule is getting packed and Fall season hasn't started yet. I've two weeks to pack in as much as I can from the Summer leftovers and early starters.
Did anyone get beyond E3 of True Detective 2? Most disappointing - I can't be bothered to watch it after the dismal stuff effort I saw.
"Privately, several Ukip figures resent the party’s handling of the weeks after the election result. Mr Farage resigned (as he pledged to do if he failed to win his race in South Thanet) then “unresigned” before demoting rivals. There are mutterings of a personality cult.
“Totally unnecessarily he made the test of the election whether he became an MP or not. So we found ourselves seen through the prism of failure when we won 4m voters,” said one senior figure."
"Nearly all of the attendees in Doncaster still see Mr Farage as an electoral asset. They are keen to campaign for Brexit. But away from the tweed and ale and blokey bonhomie, there are serious questions being asked about what happens now Ukip’s insurgency is an established force.
As Professor Matthew Goodwin at the University of Kent, puts it: “The challenge for Nigel Farage is whether he sees Ukip as a long-term political party, not merely a vehicle to campaign for a British exit from the European Union.” "
All parties are coalitions. Some UKIP supporters see it as a temporary creation to lead the UK out of the European Union. Others see it as a force for social conservatism against the social liberalism rampant in the other political parties.
I think Farage wants to be a cabinet minister, or even Prime Minister. I do not doubt the sincerity of his desire to leave the EU, but I wonder if the dream he has in his head is of the current referendum being lost, UKIP winning the 2020 election, and him being swept into Downing Street... (And then leaving the EU.)
Apologies to Mr Dancer: this might be a little too modern for him.
I am, apparently, Roman Emperor Constantine. You may all address me as such in the future you unworthy, unwashed plebs.
Harumph. The Byzantine Emperors WERE Roman Emperors.
EDIT: Looks like I'm a republic-killer.
You are The Roman Emperor Caesar Augustus! Known by history as one of the greatest rulers of all time, thanks to your tactical and military genius, you created the Imperial tradition of Rome almost singlehandedly. The kind of autocratic power that would be the epitome of power for the next two thousand years. In time, all rulers would attempt to connect theirs to yours for the sake of legitimacy as your rule became the legacy of kingship itself.
I'm Theodora (although I don't share her fondness for geese).
"Privately, several Ukip figures resent the party’s handling of the weeks after the election result. Mr Farage resigned (as he pledged to do if he failed to win his race in South Thanet) then “unresigned” before demoting rivals. There are mutterings of a personality cult.
“Totally unnecessarily he made the test of the election whether he became an MP or not. So we found ourselves seen through the prism of failure when we won 4m voters,” said one senior figure."
"Nearly all of the attendees in Doncaster still see Mr Farage as an electoral asset. They are keen to campaign for Brexit. But away from the tweed and ale and blokey bonhomie, there are serious questions being asked about what happens now Ukip’s insurgency is an established force.
As Professor Matthew Goodwin at the University of Kent, puts it: “The challenge for Nigel Farage is whether he sees Ukip as a long-term political party, not merely a vehicle to campaign for a British exit from the European Union.” "
All parties are coalitions. Some UKIP supporters see it as a temporary creation to lead the UK out of the European Union. Others see it as a force for social conservatism against the social liberalism rampant in the other political parties.
I think Farage wants to be a cabinet minister, or even Prime Minister. I do not doubt the sincerity of his desire to leave the EU, but I wonder if the dream he has in his head is of the current referendum being lost, UKIP winning the 2020 election, and him being swept into Downing Street... (And then leaving the EU.)
Given that before the election Farage was trying his hardest to prevent a Conservative majority, and repeatedly claimed that voters shouldn't trust Cameron to deliver a referendum, you have to admire his chutzpah:
Mr Farage told the BBC: "Our conference will not be about me, it will not be about UKIP.
"It will be about the fact we're celebrating we've got a national referendum on our membership of the union - something that UKIP has striven for, for over two decades."
Still, I suppose I should be flattered that he's finally come round to accepting the point I was making here for a couple of years before the election: that if UKIP were serious about wanting the UK to leave the EU, it should concentrate on building the Brexit case rather than building up a full-service political party. But it's probably too late.
The Conservative Party is not "Put up with" It got more votes than any other party..that is why it is in Government..
Better to say it is not beloved by many I suppose, although frankly i don't know why any party should be beloved by anyone - even if you love the founding or current ideology, those both change, and then you are getting very emotional about something inherently grubby, partisan politics, not even ideas. Attachment to a party seems ok, but of the main parties, the Tories seem regarded as lacking as many obviously fervent supporters in the 'love the cause' mould.
In politics, I think it's best to be somewhat detached. I don't understand tribalists; we're not talking rugby or football.
Because of my own personal idiosyncracies, I wouldn't be happy in the Conservatives (out here in the boonies, the locals still aren't big on the LGBT thang, though they're perfectly polite about it).
I can't see me ever voting for Labour as it stands. I could handle voting for an orange booker liberal party.
UKIP could be my natural home (I'm pro-Europe, anti-EU) but their policies are incoherent and I think Farage is an egomaniac.
High time we start making better use of our urban spaces.
As an aside, if I was a drug user, I would be slightly careful of smoking anything from that farm. Some older sewage works floated the rotating arms of the bio-filters (the large circular tanks) on a liquid mercury bearing. Sometimes when these sewage works were closed down, the pits were just filled in without removing the mercury. Allegedly.
Therefore your reefer may cause your brain a little more damage than you were expecting ...
There are some very militant vegans out there who have demanded that meat eaters be executed for their crimes against the planet.
It never ceases to amaze me how people who would declare themselves to be oh-so-liberal are perhaps the most intolerant and illiberal individuals you could ever encounter.
This time next year the penny will begin to drop with quite a few PB Hodges as the realisation of the Labour percentage of 37%-40% not reducing hits home. Some will blame Cameron, some will blame Gideon. Though obviously there will be those that will still proclaim:
Swingback, swingback ........my kingdom for any swingback.
This time next year the penny will begin to drop with quite a few PB Hodges as the realisation of the Labour percentage of 37%-40% not reducing hits home. Some will blame Cameron, some will blame Gideon. Though obviously there will be those that will still proclaim:
Swingback, swingback ........my kingdom for any swingback.
Anyone looking for me saying such things, though with less paritsan zeal as I didn't want Labour to win, will certainly not find hundreds of examples, nossir
Actually, I think I did state the Tories had as much as a 10% chance of a plurarlity at one point, so I was almost right. Right?
Interesting also that on that December 2013 thread there were some comments about how falling unemployment would help the Tories, for example this post by currystar:
On topic, what if by May 2015 the economy is soaring, unemployment is below 2,000,000, wages are rising above inflation, will people still think I know lets get rid of the Government who have administered this remarkable economic turn round and vote back in the lot who mucked it up. They may well do, but is a vote for the main party in what will have turned out to be an excellent coalition government really that fanciful?
In the event, by the time of the election not only were the economy soaring and wages rising above inflation, but unemployment was down to 1.83 million.
OT Anyone watched Hand of God on Prime? My TV schedule is getting packed and Fall season hasn't started yet. I've two weeks to pack in as much as I can from the Summer leftovers and early starters.
Did anyone get beyond E3 of True Detective 2? Most disappointing - I can't be bothered to watch it after the dismal stuff effort I saw.
You made one episode more than me of True Detective 2. Always going to be a challenge to deliver something as exquisitely written as the original, but it was a poor effort. Probably written to too tight a deadline.
OT Anyone watched Hand of God on Prime? My TV schedule is getting packed and Fall season hasn't started yet. I've two weeks to pack in as much as I can from the Summer leftovers and early starters.
Did anyone get beyond E3 of True Detective 2? Most disappointing - I can't be bothered to watch it after the dismal stuff effort I saw.
You made one episode more than me of True Detective 2. Always going to be a challenge to deliver something as exquisitely written as the original, but it was a poor effort. Probably written to too tight a deadline.
I only watched the first episode.. the first series was so great it was an almost impossible act to follow... I cant take Vince Vaughn seriously, and couldn't get past that really
Yougov has Leave ahead by 41:38%. There are the usual splits by age, class, and political party.
Conservative voters are supporting Leave by almost 2:1. Is there insight here about betting on Cameron's successor. If the thing is as acrimonious as the Scottish referendum, isn't it quite likely the Tories will want to elect someone that backed the Leave campaign?
Given that before the election Farage was trying his hardest to prevent a Conservative majority, and repeatedly claimed that voters shouldn't trust Cameron to deliver a referendum, you have to admire his chutzpah: Mr Farage told the BBC: "Our conference will not be about me, it will not be about UKIP. "It will be about the fact we're celebrating we've got a national referendum on our membership of the union - something that UKIP has striven for, for over two decades." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34352475 Still, I suppose I should be flattered that he's finally come round to accepting the point I was making here for a couple of years before the election: that if UKIP were serious about wanting the UK to leave the EU, it should concentrate on building the Brexit case rather than building up a full-service political party. But it's probably too late.
Ah the PB archives. A source of much merriment for all sides of the spectrum.
Not all sides. They can be an instrument of terror and I'm always profoundly relieved when (as on this occasion) I find that I haven't commented on a thread.
This time next year the penny will begin to drop with quite a few PB Hodges as the realisation of the Labour percentage of 37%-40% not reducing hits home. Some will blame Cameron, some will blame Gideon. Though obviously there will be those that will still proclaim:
Swingback, swingback ........my kingdom for any swingback.
That is a classic thread, compouter 1, busily counting his chickens, as one of the many bob a xxxxx accounts flounces off denying that he has ever had a different user ID, ah the good old days.
OT Anyone watched Hand of God on Prime? My TV schedule is getting packed and Fall season hasn't started yet. I've two weeks to pack in as much as I can from the Summer leftovers and early starters.
Did anyone get beyond E3 of True Detective 2? Most disappointing - I can't be bothered to watch it after the dismal stuff effort I saw.
I started watching Pilot of Hand of God, pretty dire. They thought putting lots of cursing and sex scenes would help the dire script and dire cast. Gave up.
I soldiered on with True Detective 2 , not a patch on first one , saved only by Farrell's acting, very dark and few survived.
Comments
Where did you get your insight? I'm a Party member and wouldn't claim to know much more than 10% more than Joe Average.
The nice guy stuff on here from NP cuts no ice either AFAIAC, from all the cobblers he posted about Gordon Brown and there being no challenge to his leadership, then the nonsense he posted about Broxtowe at GE2015, (and a fair amount of less than generous stuff in 2010), this from someone who has previously said he never posts anything he knows not to be true..
If you start off from the other side of the coin and initially not believe anything Nick Palmer posts, you might have a better chance of gleaning the wheat from the chaff.
All I can say is that my parents are working class swing voters who voted Tory last time. They were repelled by Miliband's weirdness. They were initially appalled by Corbyn - they read the Express and bought the whole scare story. But after a brief chat with me they changed their minds and decided to give Corbyn a go. I have a feeling Corbyn is a lot more saleable than Miliband ever was to the uncommitted. Let's face it, how many people know somebody like Miliband? Whereas most people have a slightly eccentric member of their family who resembles Corbyn.
How are PBLondonTories intending to vote?
I attended the huntings in Wandsworth last week and came away with Syed and Zac in my top two.
Syed was convincing and, given a couple of years of publicity, would make a credible and creditable candidate. However, we don't have a couple of years to get his face known, so I'm intending to plump for Zac, who was confident, reasonably charismatic and starts with the advantage of name and face recognition.
Down here - darkest Tooting - we all know Sadiq well as he was a local councillor before 2010, so we're keen to select the person most likely to beat him.
Always assume sincerity I say - and inconsistencies occur because people's beliefs are not always consistent, even if they think they are, in fact sometimes they are both sincerely held and, when you think about them, contradictory. Causes great fun and internal conflict.
I remain intrigued by this adjective.
IIRC - you're quite passionate about your politics.
And no I have no IRA hugging apologists as family members despite them being mostly Irish Catholics.
PB is a great place to learn and I do it everyday. I'm picking up an impression that you're projecting a lot of opinion based on your emotions and dismissing the views of those humans who've been here before, rather too quickly.
We aren't attempting to be mean - we're trying to offer insight into why bright shiny stuff dulls quickly and that old fogies speak from experience. I found your posts about +55s very peculiar - somehow they don't want the best for their family line. It made no sense at all.
IMO, you were a great deal more interesting as a poster before you started the victim thing. @MyBurningEars is a self-declared near Communist and isn't some old fogey Tory trying to spoil your academic pride. His comments about how difficult O levels were to his A Level students is just a matter of fact.
It is an extremely difficult job regardless of which party is in power..and I certainly would not expect them to go for the nice or popular options..they should simply govern according to the finances available and the current global situations..
http://www.medievalists.net/2015/06/24/which-roman-or-byzantine-emperor-are-you/
Apologies to Mr Dancer: this might be a little too modern for him.
I am, apparently, Roman Emperor Constantine. You may all address me as such in the future you unworthy, unwashed plebs.
It was just an anecdote. It has been such a widely held notion that Labour can't win with a left wing leader, and one I have always held myself, that seeing anything that contradicts it seems notable.
I've knocked you before for skating about on an argument - but citing Major is laughable.
In fact it's just an online persona - in real life I am a vicious, racist, sexist, evil minded so and so, so I get a vicarious thrill by pretending otherwise
EDIT: Looks like I'm a republic-killer.
You are The Roman Emperor Caesar Augustus! Known by history as one of the greatest rulers of all time, thanks to your tactical and military genius, you created the Imperial tradition of Rome almost singlehandedly. The kind of autocratic power that would be the epitome of power for the next two thousand years. In time, all rulers would attempt to connect theirs to yours for the sake of legitimacy as your rule became the legacy of kingship itself.
20yrs of that was spent as a recovery job specialist who would turn a mess into something positive and a great place to work. None of that included making excuses for sub-par or slacker behaviour.
I often feel like an alien when discussing this stuff - that I made a career of it tells me that people like me are necessary.
Hampshire's great escape ;-)
If my parents were worried about my feelings they wouldn't keep going on about that bloody sander I borrowed once and unknowingly returned broken.
It was just an anecdote. It has been such a widely held notion that Labour can't win with a left wing leader, and one I have always held myself, that seeing anything that contradicts it seems notable.
Recidivist
I think your anecdote about your parents provides some insight. Too many on here are underestimating Corbyn's potential electoral appeal. Namely, that he is demonstrably not 'like all the rest'. For people who would like to vote for someone who is in their mind authentic and not a hypocrite, I can see that he potentially appeals in a way that Ed Miliband never did.
However, on the other hand there is the history: the links with the IRA, Hammas etc. which the press and the Tories will certainly go to town with. The question is are the Labour-inclined voters who will be repelled by all that stuff more in number than the Labour-inclined voters who are basically anti-Politician, and to whom Corbyn might appeal. Corbyn's personal abstemiousness, the fact that he is one of the few MPs to have come out well from the expenses investigations will be attractive to some (it's why he succeeded in the leadership election, in a way that Diane Abbot could never have done). And the more he gets attacked, the more the view that he is a victim of the establishment will be reinforced.
Finally and personally, I might add that as someone who has always been a Labour supporter, and who voted for Ed Miliband's Labour after some hesitation, I definitely would not vote for a Corbyn-led Labour party. Like Manchester Kurt my vote is with the LDs for the time being. And in my case that matters, because I live in a constituency in which the Labour majority over the Tories is only around 250 votes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34363289
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34359775
High time we start making better use of our urban spaces.
I just simply disagree with some (well, tbh a lot of people) on here. I definitely feel PB at many times can be insightful - but at other times I find this site to be reactionary. For example, my post on Corbyn yesterday. I was simply offering a slightly alternative view on him. I'm not a Corbynite, and for the most I don't think he'll be winning an election anytime soon. However, I offered the opinion that part of the reason why his approval ratings are so low is undoubtedly that he has been the recipient of pretty bad press in recent days/weeks. Suddenly, a hoard of PBers - directly and indirectly - appear to think, and assert (directly to me, and indirectly) that I've completely attributed Corbyn's bad rep to some press conspiracy. When, in my post I did also say that is was due to his divisive nature i.e. his 'colourful' views on a range of subjects. Yet this appeared to be ignored, and for not taking a very disdainful tone on Corbyn, I felt like I was getting jumped on by several PBers and bracketed in as a deluded Corbyn supporter. Likewise, for a misunderstanding (I had misread subition's post, and made an ill-advised comment on Labour supporters and Corbyn, now thinking back) I was accused of trolling. I was mystified by that accusation.
I don't deny that @MyBurningEars comments on O-Levels being harder isn't academic fact. Nor do I think the education system doesn't have it's (many) issues. What I dislike is that this ire towards the system seems to be aimed more at students than anything else. Particularly that most of the criticisms regarding grade inflation don't come in the form of criticising the system, the Exam boards, Ofsted, or politicians, but those who are older patting themselves on the back for how great their grades are in comparison to grades of my generation. I don't like the idea, that was suggested a short while ago on PB, to rub into my generation's faces when we are older regarding grade inflation, how our grades are supposedly worth less than previous generations. Even if it is when we are older it feels vengeful and also pointless - almost that we are at fault for the way the system is and that we mustn't be too happy when we do well, at GCSE, A-Level, or degree level otherwise we are getting too 'cocky' and whatnot. That is what I was getting upset about and how does feel that whenever young people are mentioned on this website, its' always in a negative manner - that our grades, and degrees are worthless. That can be a bit demoralising, from my POV.
Do I think over 55s don't want the best for their families? No, I don't think that. But I do think that most people vote in self-interest - and while that self-interest can, and often does extend to children this tends to be when parents are responsible for their welfare. I don't get the impression as much as they love me, that when my grandparents vote Labour (grandma) or Tory (granddad) they are doing so thinking of me, or my mother - but rather out of routine (for my grandma this is definitely the case) and concern issues such as immigration (granddad) and self-interest.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5aae4e6e-6372-11e5-9846-de406ccb37f2.html?ftcamp=published_links/rss/brussels/feed//product#axzz3mgC93UHE
"Privately, several Ukip figures resent the party’s handling of the weeks after the election result. Mr Farage resigned (as he pledged to do if he failed to win his race in South Thanet) then “unresigned” before demoting rivals. There are mutterings of a personality cult.
“Totally unnecessarily he made the test of the election whether he became an MP or not. So we found ourselves seen through the prism of failure when we won 4m voters,” said one senior figure."
"Nearly all of the attendees in Doncaster still see Mr Farage as an electoral asset. They are keen to campaign for Brexit. But away from the tweed and ale and blokey bonhomie, there are serious questions being asked about what happens now Ukip’s insurgency is an established force.
As Professor Matthew Goodwin at the University of Kent, puts it: “The challenge for Nigel Farage is whether he sees Ukip as a long-term political party, not merely a vehicle to campaign for a British exit from the European Union.” "
I am Servilia Caepionis apparently, not any kind of Emperor - I feel cheated from what the quiz promised me.
Did anyone get beyond E3 of True Detective 2? Most disappointing - I can't be bothered to watch it after the dismal stuff effort I saw.
I think Farage wants to be a cabinet minister, or even Prime Minister. I do not doubt the sincerity of his desire to leave the EU, but I wonder if the dream he has in his head is of the current referendum being lost, UKIP winning the 2020 election, and him being swept into Downing Street... (And then leaving the EU.)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/meat-eaters-should-be-treated-like-smokers-says-the-vegan-shadow-environment-secretary-kerry-10515299.html?cmpid=facebook-post
"Time to make some money from the CON majority fantasists"
Mr Farage told the BBC: "Our conference will not be about me, it will not be about UKIP.
"It will be about the fact we're celebrating we've got a national referendum on our membership of the union - something that UKIP has striven for, for over two decades."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34352475
Still, I suppose I should be flattered that he's finally come round to accepting the point I was making here for a couple of years before the election: that if UKIP were serious about wanting the UK to leave the EU, it should concentrate on building the Brexit case rather than building up a full-service political party. But it's probably too late.
Because of my own personal idiosyncracies, I wouldn't be happy in the Conservatives (out here in the boonies, the locals still aren't big on the LGBT thang, though they're perfectly polite about it).
I can't see me ever voting for Labour as it stands. I could handle voting for an orange booker liberal party.
UKIP could be my natural home (I'm pro-Europe, anti-EU) but their policies are incoherent and I think Farage is an egomaniac.
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/185546/#Comment_185546
But what do PB Tories know?
Therefore your reefer may cause your brain a little more damage than you were expecting ...
It never ceases to amaze me how people who would declare themselves to be oh-so-liberal are perhaps the most intolerant and illiberal individuals you could ever encounter.
Genius.
compouter1 Posts: 642
December 2013
This time next year the penny will begin to drop with quite a few PB Hodges as the realisation of the Labour percentage of 37%-40% not reducing hits home. Some will blame Cameron, some will blame Gideon. Though obviously there will be those that will still proclaim:
Swingback, swingback ........my kingdom for any swingback.
Yougov has Leave ahead by 41:38%. There are the usual splits by age, class, and political party.
Actually, I think I did state the Tories had as much as a 10% chance of a plurarlity at one point, so I was almost right. Right?
On topic, what if by May 2015 the economy is soaring, unemployment is below 2,000,000, wages are rising above inflation, will people still think I know lets get rid of the Government who have administered this remarkable economic turn round and vote back in the lot who mucked it up. They may well do, but is a vote for the main party in what will have turned out to be an excellent coalition government really that fanciful?
In the event, by the time of the election not only were the economy soaring and wages rising above inflation, but unemployment was down to 1.83 million.
.
That quiz is clearly broken. 'Pick a colour', indeed.
Scotland is now by far the most pro-EU region.
Leave EU = Praise Cameron
Remain = Farages fault
being paved...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11891613/Ukip-donor-threatens-Douglas-Carswell-with-deselection.html
I soldiered on with True Detective 2 , not a patch on first one , saved only by Farrell's acting, very dark and few survived.