UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said his party is not his priority as he dedicates its annual conference to the campaign to leave the EU. Party members and activists are gathering in Doncaster, with Mr Farage to deliver a speech at noon. He said there would be a "surprise" coming together of all anti-EU groups in the country in a "show of unity". It was also revealed strategist Lynton Crosby's firm had rejected an offer to help one of the No campaigns. UKIP, which is committed to Britain withdrawing from the European Union, had launched its own No campaign for the referendum, which the government has pledged to hold by 2018. ------- A Leader that neglects his power base, (the party) is not doing his duty.
If Nigel Farage want's to spend all his time on the Out Ref., he should resign his position and let UKIP elect a new leader.
I suspect he hopes to follow the trail that Salmond and Sturgeon have blazed, and that the referendum of itself will provide crossover to UKIP support.
The last national UK referendum was for the Lib Dems totemic policy of voting reform wasn't it?
That worked so well in providing crossover to Lib Dem support didn't it?
But (1) it was not an issue anyone cared about - indeed, many Lib Dems were at best luke-warm about AV - and (2) they didn't make any running on it anyway.
An EU referendum would be a far more widely-covered and publicly-engaged affair.
I cared about AV and still do.
Alternative Vote, not 'annibal vanquished.
I'm comparing Reckless to Hannibal. After losing badly they ended up in bad places such as Reckless forced to stand in the Welsh assembly elections.
Traitors never prosper (Apart from the ones who do prosper)
Funnily enough, I'm reading Churchill's biography of Marlborough at the moment, who ditched James II at the right moment, which is arguably well-timed treachery. I have to say, I don't think I've ever read anything so exquisitely well-written (though I await your AV thread with bated breath).
Expect a substantial revision on income tax numbers. They're clearly out of kilter with wages, national insurance, VAT etc. Someone has hit the wrong button on the calculator.
This time last year ONS were putting the Apr-Aug deficit at over £45bn. They've already found £3bn in revisions since then.
UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said his party is not his priority as he dedicates its annual conference to the campaign to leave the EU. Party members and activists are gathering in Doncaster, with Mr Farage to deliver a speech at noon. He said there would be a "surprise" coming together of all anti-EU groups in the country in a "show of unity". It was also revealed strategist Lynton Crosby's firm had rejected an offer to help one of the No campaigns. UKIP, which is committed to Britain withdrawing from the European Union, had launched its own No campaign for the referendum, which the government has pledged to hold by 2018. ------- A Leader that neglects his power base, (the party) is not doing his duty.
If Nigel Farage want's to spend all his time on the Out Ref., he should resign his position and let UKIP elect a new leader.
I suspect he hopes to follow the trail that Salmond and Sturgeon have blazed, and that the referendum of itself will provide crossover to UKIP support.
The last national UK referendum was for the Lib Dems totemic policy of voting reform wasn't it?
That worked so well in providing crossover to Lib Dem support didn't it?
But (1) it was not an issue anyone cared about - indeed, many Lib Dems were at best luke-warm about AV - and (2) they didn't make any running on it anyway.
An EU referendum would be a far more widely-covered and publicly-engaged affair.
I cared about AV and still do.
Alternative Vote, not 'annibal vanquished.
I'm comparing Reckless to Hannibal. After losing badly they ended up in bad places such as Reckless forced to stand in the Welsh assembly elections.
Traitors never prosper (Apart from the ones who do prosper)
Funnily enough, I'm reading Churchill's biography of Marlborough at the moment, who ditched James II at the right moment, which is arguably well-timed treachery. I have to say, I don't think I've ever read anything so exquisitely well-written (though I await your AV thread with bated breath).
I need to read that. I've read Churchill's war stuff. Compelling stuff especially in light of Alan Brooke's diaries.
The last national UK referendum was for the Lib Dems totemic policy of voting reform wasn't it? That worked so well in providing crossover to Lib Dem support didn't it?
You forget, Mr Thompson, that the Alternative Vote was not a Lib Dem policy. It was a Coalition Government policy.
So the referendum defeat worked very well indeed - for the Conservatives, who pretended that they wee the continuation of the Coalition, and won themselves a majority.
I think your comment massages the actuality somewhat.
AV wasn't a Coalition policy but the provision of an AV referendum was. Neither is it too surprising that Conservatives would prefer a majority to a coalition.
On the Guardian and who they represent, it's tempting to suggest a Tesco Metro Survey of the local intelligentsia by counting morning stocks of Guardian vs Indy vs Teelgraph vs Times.
Here, in a town of 50k people, there are half a dozen of these Tesco Metros and there are usually one or two Guardians, similarly Indys, more of the 20p Indy summary sheet, and a reasonable pile of Telegraphs or Times, which may mean 5-15 each.
Mr. W, ah, that was recommended by me [although I got it after a recommendation from someone else here]. There's more opinion towards the end, I think.
I have a question, Nick. Would it be fair to say that some people in the Labour Party tolerated Tony Blair because they thought in the long term it would help them get a left-wing government? The election of Ed Miliband felt to me as though the left had been biding their time and thought they could piggy back off New Labour having been in government to get back into power themselves.
It's easy to forget, but in the lead up to the 2010 election one of questions of the Tories was 'can they run the country'? It might seem silly, but when a party's been out of power for 13 years that question mark hangs over them, not matter how polished and professional the leadership team may come across as.
Conversely, at the 2015 election, I didn't get the feeling that Labour's ability to run the country was in question. It's quite easy to remember back to Labour being in power, and I think the public had some respect for people like Alistair Darling.
By 2020, however, it will have been a decade since Labour have run the country and I'd have thought that this most basic of questions will be more prominent in the minds of the voters.
Most Labour people in 1995 when Blair was chosen were just fed up with losing, and felt he sounded pretty good. It was only later that he was clearly seen as keen on privatisation etc. - at the time, he just seemed pretty standard centre-left with added caution but extra charisma. I don't think that left-wingers saw him as a sort of Trojan horse, more as a necessary compromise with the electorate who would do some decent things - minimum wage, more spending on public services, social liberalism, etc.. By 2001 and even more 2005 it became clearer that we'd signed up to a fairly drastic centrist compromise and left-wingers started to drift away. By 2015, the centrist compromise had evaporated and it wasn't clear that we were standing for anything very coherent at all - which IMO is why the ABC candidates failed.
I think you're right that the competence question raises its head the longer one's out of power (though it's balanced by the "oh not again" factor which affects governments who've been in power for a very long time). Convincing people of competence will be a factor for the new leadership in particular, since it's obvious that the learning curve is much steeper than for a team who've been on the front bench for years. It'll be a challenge for Boris too if he wins the leadership - running London in a jokey sort of way is a bit different from running Britain.
UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said his party is not his priority as he dedicates its annual conference to the campaign to leave the EU. Party members and activists are gathering in Doncaster, with Mr Farage to deliver a speech at noon. He said there would be a "surprise" coming together of all anti-EU groups in the country in a "show of unity". It was also revealed strategist Lynton Crosby's firm had rejected an offer to help one of the No campaigns. UKIP, which is committed to Britain withdrawing from the European Union, had launched its own No campaign for the referendum, which the government has pledged to hold by 2018. ------- A Leader that neglects his power base, (the party) is not doing his duty.
If Nigel Farage want's to spend all his time on the Out Ref., he should resign his position and let UKIP elect a new leader.
I saw him say that and was somewhat amazed, not least given his unresignation. His reasoning sounded pretty feeble to me. Maybe he knows more about the state of ukip than he is letting on. He also seemed to be implying that he/ they had achieved the referendum policy during the election, but it was known about before and sneered at by kippers. If the Tory vote had split and Miliband elected we would not be talking about a referendum now.
I saw Mr Farage being interviewed..
The good : he was suntanned. The bad - he looked tired and in pain . I suspect his back still pains a lot after the plane crash. Hi body language was tense.. He appears to be half the man he was before the crash.
Mr. Herdson, my knowledge of Augustus is limited, but I'd be greatly surprised if he were greater than Aurelian.
My knowledge of Augustus is even more limited, but I'm sure he gets additional marks for setting things up sufficiently that even successor nutters could not erase what he created.
On topic of Corbyn needing saving from some of his supporters, I do agree, but playing devil's advocate, is that not going down the path of people defending poor leaders since the dawn of time by blaming outsiders or evil counsellors for anything bad that happens, rather than the person ultimately responsible for how things go?
Mr. W, ah, that was recommended by me [although I got it after a recommendation from someone else here]. There's more opinion towards the end, I think.
£2.80 for a hardback's a bargain.
Absolutely.
The key is to know the slightly esoteric condition grading system used in the secondhand book world, which is as strange as the rockclimbing (*) one that is built like German, and to avoid ABE Books.
(*) Easy (rarely used) Moderate (M, or "Mod") Difficult (D, or "Diff") Hard Difficult (HD, or "Hard Diff" - often omitted) Very Difficult (VD, or "V Diff") Hard Very Difficult (HVD, or "Hard V Diff" - sometimes omitted) Mild Severe (MS - often omitted) Severe (S) Hard Severe (HS) Mild Very Severe (MVS - often omitted) Very Severe (VS) Hard Very Severe (HVS) Extremely Severe (E1, E2, E3, ...)
UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said his party is not his priority as he dedicates its annual conference to the campaign to leave the EU. Party members and activists are gathering in Doncaster, with Mr Farage to deliver a speech at noon. He said there would be a "surprise" coming together of all anti-EU groups in the country in a "show of unity". It was also revealed strategist Lynton Crosby's firm had rejected an offer to help one of the No campaigns. UKIP, which is committed to Britain withdrawing from the European Union, had launched its own No campaign for the referendum, which the government has pledged to hold by 2018. ------- A Leader that neglects his power base, (the party) is not doing his duty.
If Nigel Farage want's to spend all his time on the Out Ref., he should resign his position and let UKIP elect a new leader.
I saw him say that and was somewhat amazed, not least given his unresignation. His reasoning sounded pretty feeble to me. Maybe he knows more about the state of ukip than he is letting on. He also seemed to be implying that he/ they had achieved the referendum policy during the election, but it was known about before and sneered at by kippers. If the Tory vote had split and Miliband elected we would not be talking about a referendum now.
I saw Mr Farage being interviewed..
The good : he was suntanned. The bad - he looked tired and in pain . I suspect his back still pains a lot after the plane crash. Hi body language was tense.. He appears to be half the man he was before the crash.
Strange conclusion... Even if we accept that we are now post peak kipper, it's hard to justify a claim that Farages most successful period was pre 2010
Mr. Herdson, my knowledge of Augustus is limited, but I'd be greatly surprised if he were greater than Aurelian.
As a commander, no great shakes. As a politician, a genius.
Put an end to a century or so of instability and intermittent civil war and established a new regime that governed peacefully (AD68 apart) for two centuries during which time Rome rose to her greatest power. He governed for four decades and died in his bed.
Mr. kle4, swings and roundabouts. By not codifying the right of succession Augustus made it 'might is right'. Not sure if it was him or Tiberius who set up the donative, but those two things helped foster a culture of regicide and rebellion decades and centuries down the line.
Thanks for the reply Nick, I certainly think Corbyn will be up against it whoever he faces in 2020 (should that be when the election is and if he is still leader). I share SeanT's view that the next election result could be very similar to 2015.
On the Guardian and who they represent, it's tempting to suggest a Tesco Metro Survey of the local intelligentsia by counting morning stocks of Guardian vs Indy vs Teelgraph vs Times.
Here, in a town of 50k people, there are half a dozen of these Tesco Metros and there are usually one or two Guardians, similarly Indys, more of the 20p Indy summary sheet, and a reasonable pile of Telegraphs or Times, which may mean 5-15 each.
in my past ive worked at a newsagents, and a petrol station. The agents would easily sell 300+ copies of the news of the world, and get three copies of the Observer.
UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said his party is not his priority as he dedicates its annual conference to the campaign to leave the EU. Party members and activists are gathering in Doncaster, with Mr Farage to deliver a speech at noon. He said there would be a "surprise" coming together of all anti-EU groups in the country in a "show of unity". It was also revealed strategist Lynton Crosby's firm had rejected an offer to help one of the No campaigns. UKIP, which is committed to Britain withdrawing from the European Union, had launched its own No campaign for the referendum, which the government has pledged to hold by 2018. ------- A Leader that neglects his power base, (the party) is not doing his duty.
If Nigel Farage want's to spend all his time on the Out Ref., he should resign his position and let UKIP elect a new leader.
I suspect he hopes to follow the trail that Salmond and Sturgeon have blazed, and that the referendum of itself will provide crossover to UKIP support.
The last national UK referendum was for the Lib Dems totemic policy of voting reform wasn't it?
That worked so well in providing crossover to Lib Dem support didn't it?
But (1) it was not an issue anyone cared about - indeed, many Lib Dems were at best luke-warm about AV - and (2) they didn't make any running on it anyway.
An EU referendum would be a far more widely-covered and publicly-engaged affair.
I cared about AV and still do.
Alternative Vote, not 'annibal vanquished.
I'm comparing Reckless to Hannibal. After losing badly they ended up in bad places such as Reckless forced to stand in the Welsh assembly elections.
Traitors never prosper (Apart from the ones who do prosper)
Funnily enough, I'm reading Churchill's biography of Marlborough at the moment, who ditched James II at the right moment, which is arguably well-timed treachery. I have to say, I don't think I've ever read anything so exquisitely well-written (though I await your AV thread with bated breath).
Arguably, Marlborough was a traitor to William III as well. He was still intriguing with James II's Court in exile, throughout the 1690s.
Thanks for the reply Nick, I certainly think Corbyn will be up against it whoever he faces in 2020 (should that be when the election is and if he is still leader). I share SeanT's view that the next election result could be very similar to 2015.
Hilary Benn will be Labour leader in 2020 in my view
On the Guardian and who they represent, it's tempting to suggest a Tesco Metro Survey of the local intelligentsia by counting morning stocks of Guardian vs Indy vs Teelgraph vs Times.
Here, in a town of 50k people, there are half a dozen of these Tesco Metros and there are usually one or two Guardians, similarly Indys, more of the 20p Indy summary sheet, and a reasonable pile of Telegraphs or Times, which may mean 5-15 each.
in my past ive worked at a newsagents, and a petrol station. The agents would easily sell 300+ copies of the news of the world, and get three copies of the Observer.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
Benn is almost as bad as Corbyn and just as unprincipled..
Key word 'almost'. Michael Howard was arguably 'almost' as bad as IDS but he made modest progress in 2005 and took the Tories to around 195 seats from 160 or so
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
I have a question, Nick. Would it be fair to say that some people in the Labour Party tolerated Tony Blair because they thought in the long term it would help them get a left-wing government? The election of Ed Miliband felt to me as though the left had been biding their time and thought they could piggy back off New Labour having been in government to get back into power themselves.
It's easy to forget, but in the lead up to the 2010 election one of questions of the Tories was 'can they run the country'? It might seem silly, but when a party's been out of power for 13 years that question mark hangs over them, not matter how polished and professional the leadership team may come across as.
Conversely, at the 2015 election, I didn't get the feeling that Labour's ability to run the country was in question. It's quite easy to remember back to Labour being in power, and I think the public had some respect for people like Alistair Darling.
By 2020, however, it will have been a decade since Labour have run the country and I'd have thought that this most basic of questions will be more prominent in the minds of the voters.
Most Labour people in 1995 when Blair was chosen were just fed up with losing, and felt he sounded pretty good. It was only later that he was clearly seen as keen on privatisation etc. - at the time, he just seemed pretty standard centre-left with added caution but extra charisma. I don't think that left-wingers saw him as a sort of Trojan horse, more as a necessary compromise with the electorate who would do some decent things - minimum wage, more spending on public services, social liberalism, etc.. By 2001 and even more 2005 it became clearer that we'd signed up to a fairly drastic centrist compromise and left-wingers started to drift away. By 2015, the centrist compromise had evaporated and it wasn't clear that we were standing for anything very coherent at all - which IMO is why the ABC candidates failed.
I think you're right that the competence question raises its head the longer one's out of power (though it's balanced by the "oh not again" factor which affects governments who've been in power for a very long time). Convincing people of competence will be a factor for the new leadership in particular, since it's obvious that the learning curve is much steeper than for a team who've been on the front bench for years. It'll be a challenge for Boris too if he wins the leadership - running London in a jokey sort of way is a bit different from running Britain.
I think that is a fairly good analysis, but the after thought is that it will take over a decade again before Labour gets hungry enough for power and makes those nessecary compromises with the electorate.
It is not guaranteed to do another re-incarnation, there is always the possibility of extinction rather than regeneration.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
If they were going to the Tories they would have gone and Corbyn has made net gains from the LDs in the polls. Some non voters may vote for Corbyn not Miliband cancelling out any lost
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
Farron doesn't have 'friends' in the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah. He doesn't want to nationalise everything. He's not a unilateralist. So not really much like Corbyn at all.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
But without supporting the IRA, being an apologist for other terrorists, appearing on propaganda channels for Putin and the Iranian regime, lauding Venezuela, Cuba and (in the past) East Germany and the Soviet Union, or appearing disrespectful to those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain.
It is completely baffling that Corbyn supporters don't get this point.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
There's a market for Poundshop. It's just not you.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
If they were going to the Tories they would have gone and Corbyn has made net gains from the LDs in the polls. Some non voters may vote for Corbyn not Miliband cancelling out any lost
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
If they were going to the Tories they would have gone and Corbyn has made net gains from the LDs in the polls. Some non voters may vote for Corbyn not Miliband cancelling out any lost
We shall see. I expect Corbyn will significantly underperform Ed Miliband in 2020 if he lasts that long.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
If they were going to the Tories they would have gone and Corbyn has made net gains from the LDs in the polls. Some non voters may vote for Corbyn not Miliband cancelling out any lost
I was only looking at the net Miliband to Corbyn change on non voters i.e. neutral not the wider picture
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
If they were going to the Tories they would have gone and Corbyn has made net gains from the LDs in the polls. Some non voters may vote for Corbyn not Miliband cancelling out any lost
We shall see. I expect Corbyn will significantly underperform Ed Miliband in 2020 if he lasts that long.
I agree. I could see Labour shedding 5% to UKIP and 3% to the LibDems. He will also galvanise anti-Labour tactical voting.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
But without supporting the IRA, being an apologist for other terrorists, appearing on propaganda channels for Putin and the Iranian regime, lauding Venezuela, Cuba and (in the past) East Germany and the Soviet Union, or appearing disrespectful to those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain.
It is completely baffling that Corbyn supporters don't get this point.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
If they were going to the Tories they would have gone and Corbyn has made net gains from the LDs in the polls. Some non voters may vote for Corbyn not Miliband cancelling out any lost
We shall see. I expect Corbyn will significantly underperform Ed Miliband in 2020 if he lasts that long.
IDS actually slightly outpolled Hague when he was ousted I expect Corbyn to slightly out poll Miliband even if he is toppled the base is behind them and as a government spends longer in office inevitably the opposition do a little better
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
If they were going to the Tories they would have gone and Corbyn has made net gains from the LDs in the polls. Some non voters may vote for Corbyn not Miliband cancelling out any lost
We shall see. I expect Corbyn will significantly underperform Ed Miliband in 2020 if he lasts that long.
I agree. I could see Labour shedding 5% to UKIP and 3% to the LibDems. He will also galvanise anti-Labour tactical voting.
Corbyn has made net gains from the LDs in polls so far
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
If they were going to the Tories they would have gone and Corbyn has made net gains from the LDs in the polls. Some non voters may vote for Corbyn not Miliband cancelling out any lost
We shall see. I expect Corbyn will significantly underperform Ed Miliband in 2020 if he lasts that long.
I agree. I could see Labour shedding 5% to UKIP and 3% to the LibDems. He will also galvanise anti-Labour tactical voting.
Corbyn has made net gains from the LDs in polls so far
£5 at evens on 2020 election result (in the event of Corbyn still being Leader of Labour), swing from Labour to LibDems?
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
Farron doesn't have 'friends' in the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah. He doesn't want to nationalise everything. He's not a unilateralist. So not really much like Corbyn at all.
Looking at my own behaviour, and a few on here - I also suspect that the Tories will pick up activists/new members to make sure that Corbyn/Sadiq don't get anywhere near power, if they can help it.
I went from Blairite to card-carrying Tory to ensure EdM didn't become PM. Whilst I think Corbyn's Labour has Nil chance of winning power - others who are less into politics may be encouraged to get involved. The ethnic quotas from Sadiq are particularly poisonous - I fully understand why @MaxPB and some of his friends have joined up to stop him.
I don't like Zac at all - and would've voted for Tessa if I had a vote. In a forced choice - Zac trumps Sadiq everyday.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
If they were going to the Tories they would have gone and Corbyn has made net gains from the LDs in the polls. Some non voters may vote for Corbyn not Miliband cancelling out any lost
We shall see. I expect Corbyn will significantly underperform Ed Miliband in 2020 if he lasts that long.
I agree. I could see Labour shedding 5% to UKIP and 3% to the LibDems. He will also galvanise anti-Labour tactical voting.
Well, it's 48 hours until the regional elections in Catalonia, and there are two opinion polls (out of the last four) that give completely different results.
On the one hand there is TD, which has JxSi on 41%, and therefore within a whisker of what is required for them to go down the UDI route. (In all probability, 42.5%, and certainly 43%, would be enough to give JxSi a majority in the Catalonian parliament.)
And on the other is Encuestomos which has JxSi on 35.7%, which essentially identical to the combined shares for the three Unionist parties (PSC, PPC, and Cs).
Sunday evening could be quite exciting for Spain watchers :-)
As a Labour party member until the selection of Corbyn my vote for the foreseeable future is going to the Lib Dems
...Just about everything about him tbh
I'm personally ok under a Tory government and ironically think some of their policies will do my area some good
I live in a very middle class area though and have grave concerns for those not born as lucky as I was since at the moment I don't see any party having policies that will help them.
Looking at my own behaviour, and a few on here - I also suspect that the Tories will pick up activists/new members to make sure that Corbyn/Sadiq don't get anywhere near power, if they can help it.
I went from Blairite to card-carrying Tory to ensure EdM didn't become PM. Whilst I think Corbyn's Labour has Nil chance of winning power - others who are less into politics may be encouraged to get involved. The ethnic quotas from Sadiq are particularly poisonous - I fully understand why @MaxPB and some of his friends have joined up to stop him.
I don't like Zac at all - and would've voted for Tessa if I had a vote. In a forced choice - Zac trumps Sadiq everyday.
Ancdote alert: I know someone who is a Green/Labour waverer, who has never voted "right of centre", or "centre" in her life. But she regards Corbyn as a cancer and a traitor to the country and to the Labour Party. I think she'll probably - and reluctantly, and unenthusiastically - vote Conservative.
Looking at my own behaviour, and a few on here - I also suspect that the Tories will pick up activists/new members to make sure that Corbyn/Sadiq don't get anywhere near power, if they can help it.
I went from Blairite to card-carrying Tory to ensure EdM didn't become PM. Whilst I think Corbyn's Labour has Nil chance of winning power - others who are less into politics may be encouraged to get involved. The ethnic quotas from Sadiq are particularly poisonous - I fully understand why @MaxPB and some of his friends have joined up to stop him.
I don't like Zac at all - and would've voted for Tessa if I had a vote. In a forced choice - Zac trumps Sadiq everyday.
Ancdote alert: I know someone who is a Green/Labour waverer, who has never voted "right of centre", or "centre" in her life. But she regards Corbyn as a cancer and a traitor to the country and to the Labour Party. I think she'll probably - and reluctantly, and unenthusiastically - vote Conservative.
My Mum is getting on for 80. She defected from her life long allegiance to Labour in May. She's not going back. Of course, you can argue that she has got many elections left, but she's always voted - her view is that Corbyn is unpatriotic.
So, there you have it. We don't need any further debate on the topic; Corbyn is doomed, the Labour party under Corbyn is doomed. Prepare yourselves for the new Tory reich, which will last for a 1,000 years, or until the next recession, whichever comes first.
Thanks for the reply Nick, I certainly think Corbyn will be up against it whoever he faces in 2020 (should that be when the election is and if he is still leader). I share SeanT's view that the next election result could be very similar to 2015.
Hilary Benn will be Labour leader in 2020 in my view
Thanks for the reply Nick, I certainly think Corbyn will be up against it whoever he faces in 2020 (should that be when the election is and if he is still leader). I share SeanT's view that the next election result could be very similar to 2015.
Hilary Benn will be Labour leader in 2020 in my view
Jeez - are they ever gonna choose a woman?
They're easing into it by selecting someone with a girl's name first. Give them time; it's a big step.
Prepare yourselves for the new Tory reich, which will last for a 1,000 years, or until the next recession, whichever comes first.
It will last until either the Labour Party comes to its senses, or there is some other credible alternative on the centre left, and there is a good reason for voters to ditch the government. That might be as soon as 2025, depending on how things play out.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The key point about most of the polls was the underestimate of Con support - they seem unable to achieve much progress on this - unless Com res now has it right.
A very good friend of mine went from Labour to Kipper - he eye-rolls at Corbyn and is what I'd call proud patriotic Mancunian WWC who runs his own business. He can't quite make the move to Tories - but I think he'd do it and never tell me.
My brother is a Geordie Labour card carrier and thinks Corbyn is mad. He also runs his own business. It'd really surprise me if he voted for him. Sitting on his hands or OMRLP seems more likely. Maybe LD at a push.
Looking at my own behaviour, and a few on here - I also suspect that the Tories will pick up activists/new members to make sure that Corbyn/Sadiq don't get anywhere near power, if they can help it.
I went from Blairite to card-carrying Tory to ensure EdM didn't become PM. Whilst I think Corbyn's Labour has Nil chance of winning power - others who are less into politics may be encouraged to get involved. The ethnic quotas from Sadiq are particularly poisonous - I fully understand why @MaxPB and some of his friends have joined up to stop him.
I don't like Zac at all - and would've voted for Tessa if I had a vote. In a forced choice - Zac trumps Sadiq everyday.
Ancdote alert: I know someone who is a Green/Labour waverer, who has never voted "right of centre", or "centre" in her life. But she regards Corbyn as a cancer and a traitor to the country and to the Labour Party. I think she'll probably - and reluctantly, and unenthusiastically - vote Conservative.
My Mum is getting on for 80. She defected from her life long allegiance to Labour in May. She's not going back. Of course, you can argue that she has got many elections left, but she's always voted - her view is that Corbyn is unpatriotic.
So, there you have it. We don't need any further debate on the topic; Corbyn is doomed, the Labour party under Corbyn is doomed. Prepare yourselves for the new Tory reich, which will last for a 1,000 years, or until the next recession, whichever comes first.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
But without supporting the IRA, being an apologist for other terrorists, appearing on propaganda channels for Putin and the Iranian regime, lauding Venezuela, Cuba and (in the past) East Germany and the Soviet Union, or appearing disrespectful to those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain.
It is completely baffling that Corbyn supporters don't get this point.
Agreed.
This is why for all his 'Mr reasonable@ facade I feel NPXMP is so contemptible.
Looking at my own behaviour, and a few on here - I also suspect that the Tories will pick up activists/new members to make sure that Corbyn/Sadiq don't get anywhere near power, if they can help it.
I went from Blairite to card-carrying Tory to ensure EdM didn't become PM. Whilst I think Corbyn's Labour has Nil chance of winning power - others who are less into politics may be encouraged to get involved. The ethnic quotas from Sadiq are particularly poisonous - I fully understand why @MaxPB and some of his friends have joined up to stop him.
I don't like Zac at all - and would've voted for Tessa if I had a vote. In a forced choice - Zac trumps Sadiq everyday.
Ancdote alert: I know someone who is a Green/Labour waverer, who has never voted "right of centre", or "centre" in her life. But she regards Corbyn as a cancer and a traitor to the country and to the Labour Party. I think she'll probably - and reluctantly, and unenthusiastically - vote Conservative.
My Mum is getting on for 80. She defected from her life long allegiance to Labour in May. She's not going back. Of course, you can argue that she has got many elections left, but she's always voted - her view is that Corbyn is unpatriotic.
So, there you have it. We don't need any further debate on the topic; Corbyn is doomed, the Labour party under Corbyn is doomed. Prepare yourselves for the new Tory reich, which will last for a 1,000 years, or until the next recession, whichever comes first.
Don't worry, for every person that leaves Labour, there will be a dozen DNV's and Greens moving over to support Corbyn's bright new world. For every MP facing deselection who defects to another party, a score will move into McConnell's warm embrace. For every tweet that says that perhaps Corbyn was a poor choice for leader, a hundred will proclaim him as the New Messiah.
Okay, at least one of those is likely to happen. Sadly, it's the one that doesn't count.
Thanks for the reply Nick, I certainly think Corbyn will be up against it whoever he faces in 2020 (should that be when the election is and if he is still leader). I share SeanT's view that the next election result could be very similar to 2015.
Hilary Benn will be Labour leader in 2020 in my view
Jeez - are they ever gonna choose a woman?
They're easing into it by selecting someone with a girl's name first. Give them time; it's a big step.
Thanks for the reply Nick, I certainly think Corbyn will be up against it whoever he faces in 2020 (should that be when the election is and if he is still leader). I share SeanT's view that the next election result could be very similar to 2015.
Hilary Benn will be Labour leader in 2020 in my view
Jeez - are they ever gonna choose a woman?
Not when you've got ninnies like Cat Smith and Lucy Powell to choose from.
Why do UKIP conferences always look as though they are just thrown together? Answer - because they probably are. Why were photographers allowed to constantly walk up and down, blocking the view? It's time they got this right for goodness sake.
I thought Nigel Farage started off quite well. He was less shouty and sweaty but then had to spoil it with his "that woman" (Nicola Sturgeon) and the cheap joke about "piggy in the middle." No wonder his party has problems attracting women voters.
Looking at my own behaviour, and a few on here - I also suspect that the Tories will pick up activists/new members to make sure that Corbyn/Sadiq don't get anywhere near power, if they can help it.
I went from Blairite to card-carrying Tory to ensure EdM didn't become PM. Whilst I think Corbyn's Labour has Nil chance of winning power - others who are less into politics may be encouraged to get involved. The ethnic quotas from Sadiq are particularly poisonous - I fully understand why @MaxPB and some of his friends have joined up to stop him.
The ethnic quotas are truly a shocking policy that haven't got covered enough by the press. What other candidate would come out with a policy that says "people of my race should be preferred in hiring to people of your race"?
I've said before that I no longer read anything NPXMP posts re Corbyn - I glance at the first line and scroll by - it's simply incredible and totally unconvincing.
I can't think of a poster who's dropped so far in my estimation, and can still comment here.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
But without supporting the IRA, being an apologist for other terrorists, appearing on propaganda channels for Putin and the Iranian regime, lauding Venezuela, Cuba and (in the past) East Germany and the Soviet Union, or appearing disrespectful to those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain.
It is completely baffling that Corbyn supporters don't get this point.
Agreed.
This is why for all his 'Mr reasonable@ facade I feel NPXMP is so contemptible.
I've said before that I no longer read anything NPXMP posts re Corbyn - I glance at the first line and scroll by - it's simply incredible and totally unconvincing.
I can't think of a poster who's dropped so far in my estimation, and can still comment here.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
But without supporting the IRA, being an apologist for other terrorists, appearing on propaganda channels for Putin and the Iranian regime, lauding Venezuela, Cuba and (in the past) East Germany and the Soviet Union, or appearing disrespectful to those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain.
It is completely baffling that Corbyn supporters don't get this point.
Agreed.
This is why for all his 'Mr reasonable@ facade I feel NPXMP is so contemptible.
I think that's harsh; Nick has always been polite and courteous. What I do see is a living example of the old adage "Man is not a rational animal. He is a rationalising animal".
I feel quite sorry for Corbynites - they're in a tiny minority on here and elsewhere, bar Twitterati. It's understandable to develop a siege mentality and feel picked on. That's reality.
However, I can't ever imagine standing in the same space as any of them - not even at my warm and fuzziest it.
Looking at my own behaviour, and a few on here - I also suspect that the Tories will pick up activists/new members to make sure that Corbyn/Sadiq don't get anywhere near power, if they can help it.
I went from Blairite to card-carrying Tory to ensure EdM didn't become PM. Whilst I think Corbyn's Labour has Nil chance of winning power - others who are less into politics may be encouraged to get involved. The ethnic quotas from Sadiq are particularly poisonous - I fully understand why @MaxPB and some of his friends have joined up to stop him.
I don't like Zac at all - and would've voted for Tessa if I had a vote. In a forced choice - Zac trumps Sadiq everyday.
Ancdote alert: I know someone who is a Green/Labour waverer, who has never voted "right of centre", or "centre" in her life. But she regards Corbyn as a cancer and a traitor to the country and to the Labour Party. I think she'll probably - and reluctantly, and unenthusiastically - vote Conservative.
My Mum is getting on for 80. She defected from her life long allegiance to Labour in May. She's not going back. Of course, you can argue that she has got many elections left, but she's always voted - her view is that Corbyn is unpatriotic.
So, there you have it. We don't need any further debate on the topic; Corbyn is doomed, the Labour party under Corbyn is doomed. Prepare yourselves for the new Tory reich, which will last for a 1,000 years, or until the next recession, whichever comes first.
Don't worry, for every person that leaves Labour, there will be a dozen DNV's and Greens moving over to support Corbyn's bright new world. For every MP facing deselection who defects to another party, a score will move into McConnell's warm embrace. For every tweet that says that perhaps Corbyn was a poor choice for leader, a hundred will proclaim him as the New Messiah.
Okay, at least one of those is likely to happen. Sadly, it's the one that doesn't count.
'Honesty' is clearly Corbyn's trump card, but that will lose power very quickly if his views are contemptible.
Nick Griffin was probably an 'honest' politician. What you saw was what you got.
Corbyn is not of course 'honest' he is deranged. He speaks the truth of a madman.
He speaks a "truth" that 30% or so of the population finds very plausible. So, he's not just part of a lunatic fringe.
That 30% regard this government as being viciously right wing.
Ed Miliband spoke for 30%
Corbyn would be lucky to speak for 25%.
Labour's lowest poll rating under Corbyn so far has been 30%
Point 1) So far. Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
That was with Comres which has adjusted its weighting post election. More final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour and the Tories lead in all these new polls
The people who will switch to Corbyn's party (non-voters/Greens) have already done so.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
I cannot see many Miliband 2015 voters switching to the Tories if they have not done so already
Some may, others may go to the LDs, and many will not turnout.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
Farron doesn't have 'friends' in the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah. He doesn't want to nationalise everything. He's not a unilateralist. So not really much like Corbyn at all.
I've said before that I no longer read anything NPXMP posts re Corbyn - I glance at the first line and scroll by - it's simply incredible and totally unconvincing.
I can't think of a poster who's dropped so far in my estimation, and can still comment here.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
But without supporting the IRA, being an apologist for other terrorists, appearing on propaganda channels for Putin and the Iranian regime, lauding Venezuela, Cuba and (in the past) East Germany and the Soviet Union, or appearing disrespectful to those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain.
It is completely baffling that Corbyn supporters don't get this point.
Agreed.
This is why for all his 'Mr reasonable@ facade I feel NPXMP is so contemptible.
I think that's harsh; Nick has always been polite and courteous. What I do see is a living example of the old adage "Man is not a rational animal. He is a rationalising animal".
Agreed and Nick P isn't the only one. It is good to have polite posts, they are appreciated even if you disagree with the content.
I read PB to understand how others think, learn new stuff and have a joust. Nick's backing of Corbyn has destroyed my interest in his opinions on this subject. Being polite and a fellow cat lover doesn't negate that fact.
I've said before that I no longer read anything NPXMP posts re Corbyn - I glance at the first line and scroll by - it's simply incredible and totally unconvincing.
I can't think of a poster who's dropped so far in my estimation, and can still comment here.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
But without supporting the IRA, being an apologist for other terrorists, appearing on propaganda channels for Putin and the Iranian regime, lauding Venezuela, Cuba and (in the past) East Germany and the Soviet Union, or appearing disrespectful to those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain.
It is completely baffling that Corbyn supporters don't get this point.
Agreed.
This is why for all his 'Mr reasonable@ facade I feel NPXMP is so contemptible.
I think that's harsh; Nick has always been polite and courteous. What I do see is a living example of the old adage "Man is not a rational animal. He is a rationalising animal".
I've said before that I no longer read anything NPXMP posts re Corbyn - I glance at the first line and scroll by - it's simply incredible and totally unconvincing.
I can't think of a poster who's dropped so far in my estimation, and can still comment here.
Why go to the LibDems? Farron is a Pound Shop Corbyn.
But without supporting the IRA, being an apologist for other terrorists, appearing on propaganda channels for Putin and the Iranian regime, lauding Venezuela, Cuba and (in the past) East Germany and the Soviet Union, or appearing disrespectful to those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain.
It is completely baffling that Corbyn supporters don't get this point.
Agreed.
This is why for all his 'Mr reasonable@ facade I feel NPXMP is so contemptible.
I think that's harsh; Nick has always been polite and courteous. What I do see is a living example of the old adage "Man is not a rational animal. He is a rationalising animal".
Agreed and Nick P isn't the only one. It is good to have polite posts, they are appreciated even if you disagree with the content.
When someone politely admits they've misled their supporters from day one it doesn't make the pill any sweeter.
Jeremy Corbyn's friends are going to hold him very, very tightly in a smothering embrace. Certainly not enough wriggle room for him to wield a chisel to chip away at anything....
The more I think about this situation, the more I think Jezza is trapped in a cobra's embrace. He's not experienced enough to know how to play with the Big Boys, and kettled by moderates in his own SHCab. One can dress this up as Big Tenting, but it isn't - they're slapping their own leader down and experiencing no retribution for it.
He's controlled by an inner circle of Unite, CWC and ex-Ken major players who are pulling the strings. He's apparently someone who likes consensual decisions within his own echo chamber - well that's all very well, but leading a Party isn't like that. He's getting eaten alive/cornered and his life is no longer his own.
A very stressful and miserable existence, I imagine.
Jeremy Corbyn's friends are going to hold him very, very tightly in a smothering embrace. Certainly not enough wriggle room for him to wield a chisel to chip away at anything....
Benn is almost as bad as Corbyn and just as unprincipled..
Key word 'almost'. Michael Howard was arguably 'almost' as bad as IDS but he made modest progress in 2005 and took the Tories to around 195 seats from 160 or so
Speaking to ancedotes - my aunt (like my mum) has voted for multiple parties, isn't really left wing - has voted LD, Conservative and Labour - and likes Corbyn. Moral of the story: ancedotes aren't always representative (I doubt most floaters will like Corbyn). While Corbyn winning GEs is doubtful, so is the idea hordes of people will become Tories (in this sense of becoming members/activists). As I said yesterday, the Conservative party is put up with because it's considered the only viable option. It's not something enthusiastically supported by most people.
Jeremy Corbyn's friends are going to hold him very, very tightly in a smothering embrace. Certainly not enough wriggle room for him to wield a chisel to chip away at anything....
His activists are nutters (some anyway) and will demand reselection and abolition of Trident at Conference. And they will win.
Corbyn is on a tiger which is in control of him..Forget any semblance of political acceptability. He has unleashed the wind and it is not going to be controlled.
His activists don't believe in compromise, opinion polls and winning converts...See LabourlIst.
Oh... I HATED Kimmy Schimdt - I watched the first episode and thought it was fun, and then the whole OTT black gay jazz hands thing just made me wince. I got to E4 and knocked it on the head.
I really liked S1 of Dawn Til Dusk - Tarantino for the small screen - S2 is ready to watch.
OT Anyone else watching Narcos on Netflix - I'm loving it from the get-go.
Watched the first episode, and it was awesome.
Can I also recommend Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
Utterly surreal, but quite brilliantly bonkers.
I liked it in parts, but I think it's a bit too bonkers for its own good at times - when it tries to have some more moments with more emotional impact, I just didn't feel it because it was too wacky and bonkers elsewhere for such heartfelt attempts to work. If the world it takes place in is cartoonish, as it is at times to great comedic effect, rather than just being wacky (standard sitcome stuff), then the 'uh-oh, this is serious stuff now' moments don't resonate for me. If it didn't attempt the occasional heartfelt stuff it wouldn't matter as much, but I think they need to pick a more consistent tone, personally.
Also, I felt the same as Plato regarding much of the supporting cast. The lead has it down perfectly I think, not too annoying, but the rest? Ugh.
I don't agree with Nick Palmer on Corbyn, but he's very polite. You can disagree with someone but still enjoy their contributions. Certainly I've found it better to read his posts then the 'socialists are scum' posts from some very very right wing people.
Comments
It was their Pearl Harbour.
I am her bitch.
This time last year ONS were putting the Apr-Aug deficit at over £45bn. They've already found £3bn in revisions since then.
Not to mention, it wasn't an ambush attack (unlike Trasimene).
Good but the author is imo a little short on opinions.
There were fewer brutalities than we suppose, but an ample number to fill one book.
http://order-order.com/2015/09/25/historic-tory-corbyn-files-rescued-from-bodleian-library/#:ent7iYFzBLMAqA
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/farage-labour-only-winning-in-london-because-of-support-from-immigrants-a2955612.html
AV wasn't a Coalition policy but the provision of an AV referendum was. Neither is it too surprising that Conservatives would prefer a majority to a coalition.
Here, in a town of 50k people, there are half a dozen of these Tesco Metros and there are usually one or two Guardians, similarly Indys, more of the 20p Indy summary sheet, and a reasonable pile of Telegraphs or Times, which may mean 5-15 each.
Virtue signalling?
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/647368323735396353
Very Good hardback copy purchased via Amazon for £2.80 plus pp.
I ordered something else too, but the parcel this morning turned out to be 10 4m lengths of Hedgehog gutter brush.
£2.80 for a hardback's a bargain.
I think you're right that the competence question raises its head the longer one's out of power (though it's balanced by the "oh not again" factor which affects governments who've been in power for a very long time). Convincing people of competence will be a factor for the new leadership in particular, since it's obvious that the learning curve is much steeper than for a team who've been on the front bench for years. It'll be a challenge for Boris too if he wins the leadership - running London in a jokey sort of way is a bit different from running Britain.
The good : he was suntanned.
The bad - he looked tired and in pain . I suspect his back still pains a lot after the plane crash.
Hi body language was tense..
He appears to be half the man he was before the crash.
On topic of Corbyn needing saving from some of his supporters, I do agree, but playing devil's advocate, is that not going down the path of people defending poor leaders since the dawn of time by blaming outsiders or evil counsellors for anything bad that happens, rather than the person ultimately responsible for how things go?
The key is to know the slightly esoteric condition grading system used in the secondhand book world, which is as strange as the rockclimbing (*) one that is built like German, and to avoid ABE Books.
(*)
Easy (rarely used)
Moderate (M, or "Mod")
Difficult (D, or "Diff")
Hard Difficult (HD, or "Hard Diff" - often omitted)
Very Difficult (VD, or "V Diff")
Hard Very Difficult (HVD, or "Hard V Diff" - sometimes omitted)
Mild Severe (MS - often omitted)
Severe (S)
Hard Severe (HS)
Mild Very Severe (MVS - often omitted)
Very Severe (VS)
Hard Very Severe (HVS)
Extremely Severe (E1, E2, E3, ...)
Put an end to a century or so of instability and intermittent civil war and established a new regime that governed peacefully (AD68 apart) for two centuries during which time Rome rose to her greatest power. He governed for four decades and died in his bed.
Edited extra bit: off for a bit now.
Point 2) If you believe VI. Doing so seems a little odd after the recent GE.
Many of those who will switch away from Corbyn's party haven't yet done so.
It is not guaranteed to do another re-incarnation, there is always the possibility of extinction rather than regeneration.
So not really much like Corbyn at all.
It is completely baffling that Corbyn supporters don't get this point.
A thread on their behaviour - or lack of it would be fascinating. IIRC, UKIP picked up a few.
His opposition to HS2,a scheme that every northern Labour council and Chamber of Commerce supports
His lukewarm at best attitude towards membership of the EU
His desire to nationalise everything
His inability to recognise that aspiration across all of society is important
His London centres shadow cabinet
His lack of policy to devolve peers to northern cities
Just about everything about him tbh
I went from Blairite to card-carrying Tory to ensure EdM didn't become PM. Whilst I think Corbyn's Labour has Nil chance of winning power - others who are less into politics may be encouraged to get involved. The ethnic quotas from Sadiq are particularly poisonous - I fully understand why @MaxPB and some of his friends have joined up to stop him.
I don't like Zac at all - and would've voted for Tessa if I had a vote. In a forced choice - Zac trumps Sadiq everyday.
Well, it's 48 hours until the regional elections in Catalonia, and there are two opinion polls (out of the last four) that give completely different results.
On the one hand there is TD, which has JxSi on 41%, and therefore within a whisker of what is required for them to go down the UDI route. (In all probability, 42.5%, and certainly 43%, would be enough to give JxSi a majority in the Catalonian parliament.)
And on the other is Encuestomos which has JxSi on 35.7%, which essentially identical to the combined shares for the three Unionist parties (PSC, PPC, and Cs).
Sunday evening could be quite exciting for Spain watchers :-)
I live in a very middle class area though and have grave concerns for those not born as lucky as I was since at the moment I don't see any party having policies that will help them.
So, there you have it. We don't need any further debate on the topic; Corbyn is doomed, the Labour party under Corbyn is doomed. Prepare yourselves for the new Tory reich, which will last for a 1,000 years, or until the next recession, whichever comes first.
My brother is a Geordie Labour card carrier and thinks Corbyn is mad. He also runs his own business. It'd really surprise me if he voted for him. Sitting on his hands or OMRLP seems more likely. Maybe LD at a push.
Okay, at least one of those is likely to happen.
I thought Nigel Farage started off quite well. He was less shouty and sweaty but then had to spoil it with his "that woman" (Nicola Sturgeon) and the cheap joke about "piggy in the middle." No wonder his party has problems attracting women voters.
I can't think of a poster who's dropped so far in my estimation, and can still comment here.
However, I can't ever imagine standing in the same space as any of them - not even at my warm and fuzziest it.
So I won't
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfmAeijj5cM
It is good to have polite posts, they are appreciated even if you disagree with the content.
He's controlled by an inner circle of Unite, CWC and ex-Ken major players who are pulling the strings. He's apparently someone who likes consensual decisions within his own echo chamber - well that's all very well, but leading a Party isn't like that. He's getting eaten alive/cornered and his life is no longer his own.
A very stressful and miserable existence, I imagine.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2015/09/25/warwick-university-student-union-the-islamists-incite-hatred-not-us/
https://theintercept.com/2015/09/25/gchq-radio-porn-spies-track-web-users-online-identities/
Can I also recommend Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
Utterly surreal, but quite brilliantly bonkers.
Remember - IDS never ever lost a GE as leader!
Corbyn is on a tiger which is in control of him..Forget any semblance of political acceptability. He has unleashed the wind and it is not going to be controlled.
His activists don't believe in compromise, opinion polls and winning converts...See LabourlIst.
Don is micturating into the wind.
I really liked S1 of Dawn Til Dusk - Tarantino for the small screen - S2 is ready to watch.
http://www.citylab.com/crime/2015/09/the-study-that-brought-down-volkswagen/407149/
Also, I felt the same as Plato regarding much of the supporting cast. The lead has it down perfectly I think, not too annoying, but the rest? Ugh.