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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    The long-feared purge of moderate Labour members is already under way – just days after Jeremy Corbyn’s victory, an MP claimed. Simon Danczuk said a ‘concerted effort’ by the new leader’s far-left supporters had now begun to ‘silence’ people like him and ‘drum’ them out of the party.

    It came as left-wing party members plan to issue a formal complaint to Labour’s ruling NEC about the conduct of the Rochdale MP, who has been highly critical of Mr Corbyn’s brand of politics. An online petition calling for Mr Danczuk to have the whip withdrawn has gathered thousands of signatures.

    Mr Danczuk said: ‘My advice to moderates in the party is: watch your back. Be careful, but don’t give in to these people.’ One of Mr Corbyn’s most loyal supporters, new shadow energy minister Clive Lewis, warned the ‘forces of establishment’ within Labour that they would be ‘unwise’ to oppose the new leader.

    As the party reverted to the menace and bullying of the 1980s, it emerged that next week’s Labour conference is set to debate a motion against the renewal of Trident, Britain’s independent nuclear deterrent. On Friday, Heywood and Middleton’s constituency Labour party – which neighbours Mr Danczuk’s Rochdale seat – passed a motion agreeing to complain to the National Executive Committee about his alleged conduct.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3244928/Corbyn-purge-moderates-started-claims-Labour-MP-Simon-Danczuk-warns-concerted-effort-oust-him.html#ixzz3mU87cbNl
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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    I think we can safely assume that Lord A won't be getting a Xmas card from Sam and Dave this year.

    If I were Lord Ashcroft I'd be worried about any drones in the area.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022

    I think we can safely assume that Lord A won't be getting a Xmas card from Sam and Dave this year.

    If I were Lord Ashcroft I'd be worried about any drones in the area.
    Then the concipracy theorists would be convinced Cam did do it! Need a more subtle approach ;)
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited September 2015
    Since Isabel Oakeshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

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    JEO said:

    What's most odd about this Isabel Oakeshott positioning is how she's suddenly now downplaying it "It's just one page in the book", "It's hardly Watergate". She clearly cut corners on what she thought was a minor detail, and didn't have the basic journalistic foresight to realise that an allegation of the Prime Minister putting his manhood in a dead animal would be the story.

    I doubt that is how it worked. I imagine she went to her editor - in this case Lord Ashcroft - and told him what she had. He then made the decision about whether to include it. And unlike any newspaper editor, who would need to be covered by insurance in order to fight a case (and would not be if the story did not stand up) Ashcroft does not have to worry about legal action. He is basically untouchable.

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    Since Isabel Oakshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    Louise Mensch already has on Twitter.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,042

    Since Isabel Oakshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    What a lovely place your mind is
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    isam said:

    Since Isabel Oakshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    What a lovely place your mind is
    Well at least I am not a closet racist loony or fruitcake.
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    The long-feared purge of moderate Labour members is already under way – just days after Jeremy Corbyn’s victory, an MP claimed. Simon Danczuk said a ‘concerted effort’ by the new leader’s far-left supporters had now begun to ‘silence’ people like him and ‘drum’ them out of the party.

    It came as left-wing party members plan to issue a formal complaint to Labour’s ruling NEC about the conduct of the Rochdale MP, who has been highly critical of Mr Corbyn’s brand of politics. An online petition calling for Mr Danczuk to have the whip withdrawn has gathered thousands of signatures.

    Mr Danczuk said: ‘My advice to moderates in the party is: watch your back. Be careful, but don’t give in to these people.’ One of Mr Corbyn’s most loyal supporters, new shadow energy minister Clive Lewis, warned the ‘forces of establishment’ within Labour that they would be ‘unwise’ to oppose the new leader.

    As the party reverted to the menace and bullying of the 1980s, it emerged that next week’s Labour conference is set to debate a motion against the renewal of Trident, Britain’s independent nuclear deterrent. On Friday, Heywood and Middleton’s constituency Labour party – which neighbours Mr Danczuk’s Rochdale seat – passed a motion agreeing to complain to the National Executive Committee about his alleged conduct.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3244928/Corbyn-purge-moderates-started-claims-Labour-MP-Simon-Danczuk-warns-concerted-effort-oust-him.html#ixzz3mU87cbNl
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    Corbyn got 59.5% of the vote!
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    Since Isabel Oakeshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    If they are indemnified they can. If not, they need to be very careful.

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    SeanT said:


    I guess it does. As of this minute I am the bestselling novelist in the country. Heh.

    (The Number 1 spot has been confirmed by my publishers)

    Congratulations!

    I got to about No. 300 once, I think, briefly. I am in awe.
    For many years there've been strong rumours that the entire music charts are being gamed, especially with the switch to digital downloads. With relatively few sales required to get to Number 1 in the bestseller charts nowadays, might it be possible to game the bookselling charts as well?

    (Not that I'm accusing Sean T of this. and congrats to him).
    I wouldn't know now, I haven't been in the business for a few years. It used to be rumoured that publishers would induce booksellers to take 000s of copies on a sale or return basis to boost the title's profile only to quietly return them a few weeks later when nobody was looking. Harder to do that in the digital age, though.
    If that were to happen, it would probably be done with a debut novel, which isn't the case here. Publishers know that a Tom Knox/S K Tremayne novel will sell well, so there's no need to resort to such tricks.

    All books are sold to booksellers on the basis of sale or return, however.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    I think we can safely assume that Lord A won't be getting a Xmas card from Sam and Dave this year.

    I rather doubt that he'll be getting a Conference pass this year.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    RobD said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    felix said:

    The VW story is going from a "whoops" story at the weekend to main headline scandal.

    It could be "an Enron" as brand reputation goes. And I'm an Audi driver of many years' standing, so not particularly happy at the possible ramifications, financial or otherwise, for the VW-Audi Group.

    Of course, being the petrolhead I am, I'd never buy a diesel, so I take some comfort from that.

    Sorry Bob, it's a proven fact that 99.99% of Audi drivers are ar*eholes, maybe you're the one which isn't ;)

    But yep, it's a cluster**** of epic proportions. I do drive a diesel, but it's a Nissan, and knowing now about Diesel engines over the last few years it'll be my last one.
    I've driven diesels for the last 8 years - very economical, superb drives no problems. VW's f***-up is less about diesel than fraudulent cheating.
    Maybe you've spent the last 8 years pumping noxious fumes into the atmosphere to the detriment of all our healths? :D
    Oh get over yourself - for one thing I live in Spain and for another I don't care. :)
    Ah, I was only joking (darn the lack of a sarcasm emote)
    Apologies - fair do' s. It's just that virtuous greens are a pain. :)
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited September 2015

    Since Isabel Oakshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    Louise Mensch already has on Twitter.
    Whilst defending her friend Ashcroft, and claiming that he would be 'shocked and dismayed at how this one unsourced piece of hogwash (eye thank yew) would ruin all the other parts of his work.'

    Poor innocent Lord A, lead astray by the hardened journalist.

    Read it, and laugh.

    http://unfashionista.com/2015/09/22/hogwash-cameron-ashcroft-and-the-steaming-pile-of-oakeshott/
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    isamisam Posts: 41,042

    isam said:

    Since Isabel Oakshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    What a lovely place your mind is
    Well at least I am not a closet racist loony or fruitcake.
    You don't need to keep proving me right
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Danny565 said:

    Call me biased (perhaps I am), but I'm still inclined to believe the pig story. Would an MP really lie about it if it would've been so easy for him to be proven lying? (Unless the suggestion is that Ashcroft/Oakeshott are lying about an MP even being the source.)

    The rumours about McAlpine were circulating in Westminster for many, many years, and were known to journalists. I think you may be underestimating MPs penchant for scurrilous gossip and tittle-tattle. He might not have been expecting the rumours to get into print in quite such a prominent manner.

    There's also the option that it is a rather senior Conservative MP who might quite like to put pressure on Cameron to quit this parliament.
    Now who could you mean? My guess would be DD.
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    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    I guess it does. As of this minute I am the bestselling novelist in the country. Heh.

    (The Number 1 spot has been confirmed by my publishers)

    Congratulations!

    I got to about No. 300 once, I think, briefly. I am in awe.
    For many years there've been strong rumours that the entire music charts are being gamed, especially with the switch to digital downloads. With relatively few sales required to get to Number 1 in the bestseller charts nowadays, might it be possible to game the bookselling charts as well?

    (Not that I'm accusing Sean T of this. and congrats to him).
    I wouldn't know now, I haven't been in the business for a few years. It used to be rumoured that publishers would induce booksellers to take 000s of copies on a sale or return basis to boost the title's profile only to quietly return them a few weeks later when nobody was looking. Harder to do that in the digital age, though.
    If that were to happen, it would probably be done with a debut novel, which isn't the case here. Publishers know that a Tom Knox/S K Tremayne novel will sell well, so there's no need to resort to such tricks.

    All books are sold to booksellers on the basis of sale or return, however.
    I don't think anybody was suggesting SeanT's ranking is anything other than well deserved!

    Actually some bestsellers are firm sale. The last few Harry Potters were, for instance, to the disgust of some of my friends in the independent book trade.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    edited September 2015

    JohnO said:

    I'd guess Ashcroft is the "editor" of the Dave book and that it was his decision as to whether the pig's head should make an appearance. He is a billionaire and can basically do as he wishes as long as it is not criminal.

    This is the country that we live in: one where senior government ministers share weekends away with national newspaper editors and senior BBC figures, while immensely rich party donors believe they should be given senior cabinet positions as a result of their donations.

    And, in this instance, were roundly denied their expectation.

    It should not even be an issue.

    And for Dave it palpably wasn't.

    But how many immensely rich party donors have ever become Cabinet members as a consequence of their largesse. I'm struggling to think of even one. Perhaps you can help.

    PS They would have to be peers as MPs would have worked their way up the greasy pole.
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    I see the EU has just had a majority vote to tell countries like Czech Republic that they're being allocated a quota of the migrants, whether they like it or not.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    I guess it does. As of this minute I am the bestselling novelist in the country. Heh.

    (The Number 1 spot has been confirmed by my publishers)

    Congratulations!

    I got to about No. 300 once, I think, briefly. I am in awe.
    For many years there've been strong rumours that the entire music charts are being gamed, especially with the switch to digital downloads. With relatively few sales required to get to Number 1 in the bestseller charts nowadays, might it be possible to game the bookselling charts as well?

    (Not that I'm accusing Sean T of this. and congrats to him).
    I wouldn't know now, I haven't been in the business for a few years. It used to be rumoured that publishers would induce booksellers to take 000s of copies on a sale or return basis to boost the title's profile only to quietly return them a few weeks later when nobody was looking. Harder to do that in the digital age, though.
    If that were to happen, it would probably be done with a debut novel, which isn't the case here. Publishers know that a Tom Knox/S K Tremayne novel will sell well, so there's no need to resort to such tricks.

    All books are sold to booksellers on the basis of sale or return, however.
    I don't think anybody was suggesting SeanT's ranking is anything other than well deserved!

    Actually some bestsellers are firm sale. The last few Harry Potters were, for instance, to the disgust of some of my friends in the independent book trade.
    I guess one isn't taking much of a risk with Harry Potter.

    Out of interest, why do bestsellers get discounted by places like Waterstones? Surely there's no need to discount a book that's going to sell well?
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    MTimT said:

    Moses_ said:

    What's the German word for schadenfreude?

    clusterfucken?
    Brill! But shouldn't it be clusterficken?
    Yes
    But the nuance would have been lost ...... ;-)
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    Since Isabel Oakeshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    If they are indemnified they can. If not, they need to be very careful.

    What does indemnified mean here?
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Since Isabel Oakshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    What a lovely place your mind is
    Well at least I am not a closet racist loony or fruitcake.
    You don't need to keep proving me right
    So where do you think all those BNP votes went to..
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,118
    edited September 2015

    The news cycle this week is piggate, refugees/migrants and VW catastrophe. Isnt it the Lib Dems conference this week but I don't see it covered on the media - shame really!!!

    I think it was one of Cleggs ex-spokespeople who said, when piggate broke that she was used to Tory endeavours to provide other storeis, but that was really taking the p**s!
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    watford30 said:

    Since Isabel Oakshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    Louise Mensch already has on Twitter.
    Whilst defending her friend Ashcroft, and claiming that he would be 'shocked and dismayed at how this one unsourced piece of hogwash (eye thank yew) would ruin all the other parts of his work.'

    Poor innocent Lord A, lead astray by the hardened journalist.

    Read it, and laugh.

    http://unfashionista.com/2015/09/22/hogwash-cameron-ashcroft-and-the-steaming-pile-of-oakeshott/

    Poor old Lord Ashcroft. So naïve and trusting.

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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    watford30 said:

    Since Isabel Oakshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    Louise Mensch already has on Twitter.
    Whilst defending her friend Ashcroft, and claiming that he would be 'shocked and dismayed at how this one unsourced piece of hogwash (eye thank yew) would ruin all the other parts of his work.'

    Poor innocent Lord A, lead astray by the hardened journalist.

    Read it, and laugh.

    http://unfashionista.com/2015/09/22/hogwash-cameron-ashcroft-and-the-steaming-pile-of-oakeshott/

    Poor old Lord Ashcroft. So naïve and trusting.

    Would you like the other half of my onion to wrap in your hanky?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2015
    JohnO said:

    But how many immensely rich party donors have ever become Cabinet members as a consequence of their largesse. I'm struggling to think of even one. Perhaps you can help.

    PS They would have to be peers as MPs would have worked their way up the greasy pole.

    None as far as I can recall at cabinet level, but milords Drayson & Sainsbury were significant donors who were appointed ministers of state. Entirely on their merits, of course.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,941
    kle4 said:

    Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft

    Good to see PM retains his sense of humour. We must have the same doctor. I had the same in 2010 when the PM reneged http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34328067

    Getting a bit unseemly - reneging on a deal is not generally met with public accusations of penis insertion in dead animals, so it's not quite the same even if it hurt the good lord to be so disappointed at the time.
    The arrogance and entitlement of Lord Ashcroft is extraordinary and he doesn't seem to realize that keep harping on about "deals" and "reneging" basically makes himself look corrupt.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,771
    edited September 2015
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd guess Ashcroft is the "editor" of the Dave book and that it was his decision as to whether the pig's head should make an appearance. He is a billionaire and can basically do as he wishes as long as it is not criminal.

    This is the country that we live in: one where senior government ministers share weekends away with national newspaper editors and senior BBC figures, while immensely rich party donors believe they should be given senior cabinet positions as a result of their donations.

    And, in this instance, were roundly denied their expectation.

    It should not even be an issue.

    And for Dave it palpably wasn't.

    But how many immensely rich party donors have ever become Cabinet members as a consequence of their largesse. I'm struggling to think of even one. Perhaps you can help.

    PS They would have to be peers as MPs would have worked their way up the greasy pole.
    that's no way to talk about Daniel Kawczynsji
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    JEO said:

    Since Isabel Oakeshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    If they are indemnified they can. If not, they need to be very careful.

    What does indemnified mean here?

    Against legal action. So if Oakshott sues the writer will not have to find the costs of defence or the damages if Oakshott wins.

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    isamisam Posts: 41,042
    edited September 2015

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Since Isabel Oakshott is happy to write about unsubstantiated allegations about the Prime MInister, surely this is open season for everyone else to do the same in kind to Ms Oakeshott.

    What a lovely place your mind is
    Well at least I am not a closet racist loony or fruitcake.
    You don't need to keep proving me right
    So where do you think all those BNP votes went to..
    Haha

    You poor sod... Have some more counselling or send a horrible tweet to miss oakenshott for printing such a thing about your Dave... Try not to be so bitter
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    edited September 2015
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    I guess it does. As of this minute I am the bestselling novelist in the country. Heh.

    (The Number 1 spot has been confirmed by my publishers)

    Congratulations!

    I got to about No. 300 once, I think, briefly. I am in awe.
    For many years there've been strong rumours that the entire music charts are being gamed, especially with the switch to digital downloads. With relatively few sales required to get to Number 1 in the bestseller charts nowadays, might it be possible to game the bookselling charts as well?

    (Not that I'm accusing Sean T of this. and congrats to him).
    I wouldn't know now, I haven't been in the business for a few years. It used to be rumoured that publishers would induce booksellers to take 000s of copies on a sale or return basis to boost the title's profile only to quietly return them a few weeks later when nobody was looking. Harder to do that in the digital age, though.
    If that were to happen, it would probably be done with a debut novel, which isn't the case here. Publishers know that a Tom Knox/S K Tremayne novel will sell well, so there's no need to resort to such tricks.

    All books are sold to booksellers on the basis of sale or return, however.
    I don't think anybody was suggesting SeanT's ranking is anything other than well deserved!

    Actually some bestsellers are firm sale. The last few Harry Potters were, for instance, to the disgust of some of my friends in the independent book trade.
    I guess one isn't taking much of a risk with Harry Potter.

    Out of interest, why do bestsellers get discounted by places like Waterstones? Surely there's no need to discount a book that's going to sell well?
    The big sellers draw people into the shop. If you are going to Waterstone's to buy your copy of The Ice Twins you may well pick up something else as well. Even better if you are a supermarket chain - they sell a lot of books at cost or just above because you might stock up on yoghurt or cornflakes at the same time. And the big booksellers now are more or less an oligopsony (is that a word?) now, so they can drive a hard bargain and extract big discounts from the publishers. As to why the publishers fall for it - partly competition driving prices down, partly vanity on the part of editors, partly chasing market share.

    But don't expect any publishing decision to make perfect sense - it's a mad business.
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    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd guess Ashcroft is the "editor" of the Dave book and that it was his decision as to whether the pig's head should make an appearance. He is a billionaire and can basically do as he wishes as long as it is not criminal.

    This is the country that we live in: one where senior government ministers share weekends away with national newspaper editors and senior BBC figures, while immensely rich party donors believe they should be given senior cabinet positions as a result of their donations.

    And, in this instance, were roundly denied their expectation.

    It should not even be an issue.

    And for Dave it palpably wasn't.

    But how many immensely rich party donors have ever become Cabinet members as a consequence of their largesse. I'm struggling to think of even one. Perhaps you can help.

    PS They would have to be peers as MPs would have worked their way up the greasy pole.

    Well if the Mensch article linked to is correct Cameron promised Ashcroft a ministerial position and then did not deliver. More generally, we just don't know which wealthy people have been given government positions because of donations. That's not very satisfactory.

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    Can anyone explain to me why it is so "out of the question" for Cameron to sue.

    His reputation is severely damaged. Indeed he is being held up to international ridicule.

    The allegations from Ashcroft and Oakeshott may be badly sourced. not even up to tabloid standards and above all innacurate. So why not take them down a peg or three. Unless of course ......
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,771

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd guess Ashcroft is the "editor" of the Dave book and that it was his decision as to whether the pig's head should make an appearance. He is a billionaire and can basically do as he wishes as long as it is not criminal.

    This is the country that we live in: one where senior government ministers share weekends away with national newspaper editors and senior BBC figures, while immensely rich party donors believe they should be given senior cabinet positions as a result of their donations.

    And, in this instance, were roundly denied their expectation.

    It should not even be an issue.

    And for Dave it palpably wasn't.

    But how many immensely rich party donors have ever become Cabinet members as a consequence of their largesse. I'm struggling to think of even one. Perhaps you can help.

    PS They would have to be peers as MPs would have worked their way up the greasy pole.

    Well if the Mensch article linked to is correct Cameron promised Ashcroft a ministerial position and then did not deliver. More generally, we just don't know which wealthy people have been given government positions because of donations. That's not very satisfactory.

    And she seems to be hinting at Defence
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    GIN1138 said:

    Out of interest, why do bestsellers get discounted by places like Waterstones? Surely there's no need to discount a book that's going to sell well?

    Competition I imagine. It gets people through the doors and if its not on sale then the customer will go elsewhere (and buy any additional impulse secondary purchases elsewhere too).
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    And she seems to be hinting at Defence

    To be fair, if that is what Lord A was expecting, he could hardly have made a bigger hash of it than Liam Fox.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd guess Ashcroft is the "editor" of the Dave book and that it was his decision as to whether the pig's head should make an appearance. He is a billionaire and can basically do as he wishes as long as it is not criminal.

    This is the country that we live in: one where senior government ministers share weekends away with national newspaper editors and senior BBC figures, while immensely rich party donors believe they should be given senior cabinet positions as a result of their donations.

    And, in this instance, were roundly denied their expectation.

    It should not even be an issue.

    And for Dave it palpably wasn't.

    But how many immensely rich party donors have ever become Cabinet members as a consequence of their largesse. I'm struggling to think of even one. Perhaps you can help.

    PS They would have to be peers as MPs would have worked their way up the greasy pole.
    that's no way to talk about Daniel Kawczynsji
    Sorry, Brookie, that's too profound for me.
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    SeanT said:

    ON topic, just heard a fairly convincing rumour that THE ICE TWINS, by cryptic Cornish authoress S K Tremayne, is...

    Number One on the UK bestseller list. Number ONE.

    *swoons Byronically*

    SeanT said:

    ON topic, just heard a fairly convincing rumour that THE ICE TWINS, by cryptic Cornish authoress S K Tremayne, is...

    Number One on the UK bestseller list. Number ONE.

    *swoons Byronically*

    Well done SeanT. I wish I could have the success that you have achieved and the money it will bring....just very very well done mate !!!





    So.... When is your appearance going to be on "loose Women" and given your personal history will your attendance get past their risk assessment process?
  • Options
    scotslass said:

    Can anyone explain to me why it is so "out of the question" for Cameron to sue.

    His reputation is severely damaged. Indeed he is being held up to international ridicule.

    The allegations from Ashcroft and Oakeshott may be badly sourced. not even up to tabloid standards and above all innacurate. So why not take them down a peg or three. Unless of course ......

    If he wins he gets some money but gets tied up in litigation for years against a billionaire who can afford the best lawyers, all while trying to run the country, prepare for a Europe referendum and secure his political legacy and an organised handover of power.

    He probably would view his time remaining as PM as being more important than any money he might win from a lawsuit. As Ashcroft would have well known.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    The long-feared purge of moderate Labour members is already under way – just days after Jeremy Corbyn’s victory, an MP claimed. Simon Danczuk said a ‘concerted effort’ by the new leader’s far-left supporters had now begun to ‘silence’ people like him and ‘drum’ them out of the party.

    It came as left-wing party members plan to issue a formal complaint to Labour’s ruling NEC about the conduct of the Rochdale MP, who has been highly critical of Mr Corbyn’s brand of politics. An online petition calling for Mr Danczuk to have the whip withdrawn has gathered thousands of signatures.

    Mr Danczuk said: ‘My advice to moderates in the party is: watch your back. Be careful, but don’t give in to these people.’ One of Mr Corbyn’s most loyal supporters, new shadow energy minister Clive Lewis, warned the ‘forces of establishment’ within Labour that they would be ‘unwise’ to oppose the new leader.

    As the party reverted to the menace and bullying of the 1980s, it emerged that next week’s Labour conference is set to debate a motion against the renewal of Trident, Britain’s independent nuclear deterrent. On Friday, Heywood and Middleton’s constituency Labour party – which neighbours Mr Danczuk’s Rochdale seat – passed a motion agreeing to complain to the National Executive Committee about his alleged conduct.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3244928/Corbyn-purge-moderates-started-claims-Labour-MP-Simon-Danczuk-warns-concerted-effort-oust-him.html#ixzz3mU87cbNl
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    Corbyn got 59.5% of the vote!
    It would be interesting to know how much of the Labour vote he received from Danzcuk's patch. As Corbyn himself knows, you can last out the decades in your little bunker even if you are frequently in opposition to your own national party leadership, presuming you have that bunker support.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,771
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd guess Ashcroft is the "editor" of the Dave book and that it was his decision as to whether the pig's head should make an appearance. He is a billionaire and can basically do as he wishes as long as it is not criminal.

    This is the country that we live in: one where senior government ministers share weekends away with national newspaper editors and senior BBC figures, while immensely rich party donors believe they should be given senior cabinet positions as a result of their donations.

    And, in this instance, were roundly denied their expectation.

    It should not even be an issue.

    And for Dave it palpably wasn't.

    But how many immensely rich party donors have ever become Cabinet members as a consequence of their largesse. I'm struggling to think of even one. Perhaps you can help.

    PS They would have to be peers as MPs would have worked their way up the greasy pole.
    that's no way to talk about Daniel Kawczynsji
    Sorry, Brookie, that's too profound for me.
    Its OK Mr O it's been a long week for Tories and it's only Tuesday
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    watford30 said:

    Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft

    Good to see PM retains his sense of humour. We must have the same doctor. I had the same in 2010 when the PM reneged http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34328067

    So, let me get this right, did Ashcroft think he was buying a position in Cabinet with his millions?
    I think he's asserting that he had been promised a post and then that was reneged on. He gave the Tory party more than just money when they were in Opposition.
    I thought he gave little money from 2005 to 2010 but did give his time for free in managing the marginals campaign?
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    Dair said:

    Drug patents last for 20 years.

    How can a 62 year old drug still have rights to sell other than (potentially) branding?
    Congratulations to those Americans who think privatised medicine is good for them.
    It happens in the UK as well. Google Pfizer and Flynn if you want. So it's not a factor of privatised medicine.

    I haven't read up on this specific case, but it is a dark underbelly of the industry that these price gougers exist. It's not good for the patients, it's not good for the payors and it's not good for the industry as a whole. R&D is hideously expensive and risky, so you do need high prices on innovative drugs to fund it, but 20 years is quite long enough to generate returns: I'm fine with aggressive generics and fortunately payors are now wise to many of the old tricks (me-toos, reformulations, etc). Those patent extensions (paediatric extension, orphans, spc, data exclusivity) all exist for a reason & are an acceptable trade off.

    But gougers should be shot at dawn

    (I actually spent much of the morning gossiping with a former members of the senior leadership team at GSK and he pretty much agreed with the above)
    You maybe fine with aggressive generics, Mr. Charles, but I think there is a very large and very under reported problem with quality control with medicines from at least some. One day the excrement will hit the fan and there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth the like of which we have not seen for many a year.
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    scotslass said:

    Can anyone explain to me why it is so "out of the question" for Cameron to sue.

    His reputation is severely damaged. Indeed he is being held up to international ridicule.

    The allegations from Ashcroft and Oakeshott may be badly sourced. not even up to tabloid standards and above all innacurate. So why not take them down a peg or three. Unless of course ......

    Don't sue and it will be forgotten about. Tomorrow's fish and chip wrapper and all that.

    Sue, and as Oscar Wilde learned, things can rapidly spin out of control.

    First, it will mean headlines for months;
    second, witnesses and photos might emerge;
    third, other people who've been through similar rituals will be called in order to establish that such things did take place so the story is at least plausible;
    fourth, in order to establish the veracity of the author, Mr Cameron will be asked about every other allegation in the book, some of which might be more damaging;
    fifth, what actual damage has been done to the Prime Minister, for whom being the butt of jokes is surely an occupational hazard?

    Wealth warning: I'm not a lawyer but did watch the libel episode of Rumpole.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd guess Ashcroft is the "editor" of the Dave book and that it was his decision as to whether the pig's head should make an appearance. He is a billionaire and can basically do as he wishes as long as it is not criminal.

    This is the country that we live in: one where senior government ministers share weekends away with national newspaper editors and senior BBC figures, while immensely rich party donors believe they should be given senior cabinet positions as a result of their donations.

    And, in this instance, were roundly denied their expectation.

    It should not even be an issue.

    And for Dave it palpably wasn't.

    But how many immensely rich party donors have ever become Cabinet members as a consequence of their largesse. I'm struggling to think of even one. Perhaps you can help.

    PS They would have to be peers as MPs would have worked their way up the greasy pole.
    that's no way to talk about Daniel Kawczynsji
    Sorry, Brookie, that's too profound for me.
    Its OK Mr O it's been a long week for Tories and it's only Tuesday
    Oh, I'm not judgemental or censorious. After all down in deepest Elmbridge...

    http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/11819802.Complaints_over_elderly_men_in_tennis_skirts_having_Sunday_sex_sessions_in_park/
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    scotslass said:

    Can anyone explain to me why it is so "out of the question" for Cameron to sue.

    His reputation is severely damaged. Indeed he is being held up to international ridicule.

    The allegations from Ashcroft and Oakeshott may be badly sourced. not even up to tabloid standards and above all innacurate. So why not take them down a peg or three. Unless of course ......

    He's being held up to temporary ridicule, unless something susbtantive comes forward to make it lasting, and it would remain low lying from then on. Sue, and it drags on, fixes itself ever more firmly in the public consciousness, and no doubt some provable other embarrassing matters would come out, not to mention questions and clarifications stated in utter seriousness which would only make matters worse, like to clarify what he was accused of exactly, was his penis erect at the time, and so on and so forth.

    It's an amusing diversion, but I cannot see how actively suing improves matters, reputationally - those that believe it won't be dissuaded by legal action.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,771
    So ever closer Union means you take what you're given
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    scotslass said:

    Unless of course ......

    Because if he does not sue on every single unsavoury allegation - and win - someone will go "Unless of course....."
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JEO said:

    I see the EU has just had a majority vote to tell countries like Czech Republic that they're being allocated a quota of the migrants, whether they like it or not.

    The quotas are voluntary according to the EU spokesperson on 5live.
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    JEO said:

    I see the EU has just had a majority vote to tell countries like Czech Republic that they're being allocated a quota of the migrants, whether they like it or not.

    The quotas are voluntary according to the EU spokesperson on 5live.
    Then what was the point of voting on the quotas?
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    "Highways England" hasn't a clue. It's a New Labour agency set up...

    ...in 1994 as the Highways Agency by the Major administration and converted into a government owned company in 2015 by the first Cameron administration.

    Both well known New Labour Prime Ministers.

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    Evening all,

    I'm late to the party today. I see Walker is out of GOP run - interesting development.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,118
    edited September 2015
    kle4 said:

    scotslass said:

    Can anyone explain to me why it is so "out of the question" for Cameron to sue.

    His reputation is severely damaged. Indeed he is being held up to international ridicule.

    The allegations from Ashcroft and Oakeshott may be badly sourced. not even up to tabloid standards and above all innacurate. So why not take them down a peg or three. Unless of course ......

    He's being held up to temporary ridicule, unless something susbtantive comes forward to make it lasting, and it would remain low lying from then on. Sue, and it drags on, fixes itself ever more firmly in the public consciousness, and no doubt some provable other embarrassing matters would come out, not to mention questions and clarifications stated in utter seriousness which would only make matters worse, like to clarify what he was accused of exactly, was his penis erect at the time, and so on and so forth.

    It's an amusing diversion, but I cannot see how actively suing improves matters, reputationally - those that believe it won't be dissuaded by legal action.
    How long did Ed's bacon buttie disaster hang about?

    Funny thing about pigs!
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2015

    You maybe fine with aggressive generics, Mr. Charles, but I think there is a very large and very under reported problem with quality control with medicines from at least some. One day the excrement will hit the fan and there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth the like of which we have not seen for many a year.

    That is a well-known problem. A friend of mine is a world-renowned expert on the subject and I've had some very interesting chats with him on the subject. It's a big worldwide problem, ranging from generics which are basically OK but which might not have wonderful quality control (e.g. the dose might vary more than it should, or there might be more impurities than a top-quality formulation would have), through some very dodgy generics which only approximate to the real thing, through to outright frauds (including fraudulent packaging) some of which contain none of the drug at all and in some cases contain some very nasty stuff.

    Some of the big narcotics gangs are switching to fake prescription medicines because they are highly profitable, are easier to ship around the world, and the penalties if you do get caught are much less severe than those for narcotics crimes. These fraudulent drugs are widespread in third-world markets but sometimes find their way into the UK and other advanced countries, eventually being (unknowingly) supplied by respectable pharmacists and by hospitals.

    Interestingly, my friend also said that even top-class generics aren't necessarily identical to the original. Yes, they will have the same active ingredient at the right dose, but the formulation of the drug may vary so that it isn't taken up by the body at the same rate, so the clinical effect can be slightly different.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    JEO said:

    I see the EU has just had a majority vote to tell countries like Czech Republic that they're being allocated a quota of the migrants, whether they like it or not.

    The quotas are voluntary according to the EU spokesperson on 5live.
    Then what was the point of voting on the quotas?
    I did wonder myself!
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    JEO said:

    I see the EU has just had a majority vote to tell countries like Czech Republic that they're being allocated a quota of the migrants, whether they like it or not.

    The quotas are voluntary according to the EU spokesperson on 5live.
    Has anyone worked how migrants sent to a country that they don't want to go to will be forced to remain there? Will migrants in excess of their quota number be forcibly be removed from, say, Germany and sent to another country? I am not wholly sure anyone in the EU is really giving the problem any serious thought.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    kle4 said:

    scotslass said:

    Can anyone explain to me why it is so "out of the question" for Cameron to sue.

    His reputation is severely damaged. Indeed he is being held up to international ridicule.

    The allegations from Ashcroft and Oakeshott may be badly sourced. not even up to tabloid standards and above all innacurate. So why not take them down a peg or three. Unless of course ......

    He's being held up to temporary ridicule, unless something susbtantive comes forward to make it lasting, and it would remain low lying from then on. Sue, and it drags on, fixes itself ever more firmly in the public consciousness, and no doubt some provable other embarrassing matters would come out, not to mention questions and clarifications stated in utter seriousness which would only make matters worse, like to clarify what he was accused of exactly, was his penis erect at the time, and so on and so forth.

    It's an amusing diversion, but I cannot see how actively suing improves matters, reputationally - those that believe it won't be dissuaded by legal action.
    How long did Ed's bacon buttie disaster hang about?

    Funny thing about pigs!
    A couple of months? Too long certainly - that, though, was part of a sustained series of attacks across years to portray him as weird. I shudder to think what other attacks on Cameron would be necessary to seem to substantiate this particular pig story.
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    Just watched Isabel Oakshott's Newsnight interview. My, doesn't she looked pleased with herself. Continually talked over Anthony Sheldon, as she did with Nick Ferrari this morning on LBC (which, takes some doing). I thought both Maitlin and Ferrari were quite easy on her, given that she has completely trashed the reputation of a serving prime minister, based on something, which could be completely untrue.

    If the PM had any second thoughts about not retiring before the next GE, then I suspect Samantha Cameron, having seen her husband and family dragged through the gutter has firmly put her four-inch heels through that idea. Is mother is also still alive, I believe?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Cameron doesn't need to sue

    When the author of the story appears on national TV and says it was an unverified joke, that's all he needs to say in future.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft

    Good to see PM retains his sense of humour. We must have the same doctor. I had the same in 2010 when the PM reneged http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34328067

    And in that one tweet he shows that he simply doesn't get it.

    PMs *always* have the right to renege. You make deals with politicians with your eyes open. For instance, last night I hosted a drinks party for a Congressman I know. We get on well - but he's using me and I'm building up credit. At the moment our interests coincide. But if they diverge then he would have no hesitation in kicking me to the curb (or, more likely, stop returning calls)
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    The news cycle this week is piggate, refugees/migrants and VW catastrophe. Isnt it the Lib Dems conference this week but I don't see it covered on the media - shame really!!!

    A couple of people have referred to "Mr Whippy". I didn't see anything - wassup?
  • Options
    The EU are just plain idiotic. How do they think they can force quotas on National Governments by majority voting. Hungary et al will tell them to get lost and then they are going to descend into acrimony as the EU attempts to fine them. And has anyone thought how the refugees will re-act when they are sent to a Country they don't like. They will just walk out and make their way to the Countries they do ie Germany and Sweden and if they get half a chance the UK. Juncker's and the whole EU commission need abolishing as they are a complete waste of space
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Today's 'revelations' were pretty bland in comparison to yesterday - I hope they ramp it back up tomorrow, but maybe they'll wait until Thursday.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    kle4 said:

    Today's 'revelations' were pretty bland in comparison to yesterday - I hope they ramp it back up tomorrow, but maybe they'll wait until Thursday.

    I suspect they may have already shot their wad...
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Today the EU (Merkel) just rewrote the rules on QMV... Countries that voted against the quotas will now be obliged to take them but this is as close to an unprecedented decision in the EU when nation states are involved so not normally under a QMV process. This is Merkel trying to save her ass, no ifs no buts. Clusterfucken.

    It's has been show only 1 in 5 are from Syria - published by EU.

    How will these countries who voted against now react given Merkel started the rush to the EU.


    BOO

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    SeanT said:


    I guess it does. As of this minute I am the bestselling novelist in the country. Heh.

    (The Number 1 spot has been confirmed by my publishers)

    Congratulations!

    I got to about No. 300 once, I think, briefly. I am in awe.
    For many years there've been strong rumours that the entire music charts are being gamed, especially with the switch to digital downloads. With relatively few sales required to get to Number 1 in the bestseller charts nowadays, might it be possible to game the bookselling charts as well?

    (Not that I'm accusing Sean T of this. and congrats to him).
    Years ago there was the same allegation about the Radio 1 hit list. They called my godfather in to audit the sales one week - Doo Wah Diddy Di Di Dum Diddy Doo was the winner...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    Scott_P said:

    kle4 said:

    Today's 'revelations' were pretty bland in comparison to yesterday - I hope they ramp it back up tomorrow, but maybe they'll wait until Thursday.

    I suspect they may have already shot their wad...
    Ever the charmer :D
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2015
    Ashcroft..Oakeshott..Dair..Three prize prats. The Shemp, Larry and Moe of the publishing world ..
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    You maybe fine with aggressive generics, Mr. Charles, but I think there is a very large and very under reported problem with quality control with medicines from at least some. One day the excrement will hit the fan and there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth the like of which we have not seen for many a year.

    That is a well-known problem. A friend of mine is a world-renowned expert on the subject and I've had some very interesting chats with him on the subject. It's a big worldwide problem, ranging from generics which are basically OK but which might not have wonderful quality control (e.g. the dose might vary more than it should, or there might be more impurities than a top-quality formulation would have), through some very dodgy generics which only approximate to the real thing, through to outright frauds (including fraudulent packaging) some of which contain none of the drug at all and in some cases contain some very nasty stuff.

    Some of the big narcotics gangs are switching to fake prescription medicines because they are highly profitable, are easier to ship around the world, and the penalties if you do get caught are much less severe than those for narcotics crimes. These fraudulent drugs are widespread in third-world markets but sometimes find their way into the UK and other advanced countries, eventually being (unknowingly) supplied by respectable pharmacists and by hospitals.

    Interestingly, my friend also said that even top-class generics aren't necessarily identical to the original. Yes, they will have the same active ingredient at the right dose, but the formulation of the drug may vary so that it isn't taken up by the body at the same rate, so the clinical effect can be slightly different.
    The effects can be more than slightly different as I know from bitter personal experience, and that was with a medicine prescribed and administered in the Brighton Eye Hospital. Those of us taking generic medicines on a long term basis have no idea, and nor do our physicians, what effects the drugs may or may not be having from one batch to the next.

    A patient's condition may be stable for months or even years and then suddenly change. Is that a symptom that the disease is getting better or worse or that the pharmacist has changed supplier? Who knows, but unless the patient is switched on and prepared to make a fuss the chances are that a busy GP may well do something that is unnecessary and, quite possibly, harmful.

    As I say, one day the shit will hit the fan.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited September 2015
    I'd hate to be trapped in a lift with Mensch, Oakeshott and Ashcroft.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @robertshrimsley: The horror: Bay City Rollers announce reunion http://t.co/oxcqDFerKz
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,911
    https://www.change.org/p/the-labour-party-and-the-rochdale-constituency-offload-simon-danczuk-from-the-labour-party

    I see he thinks he is the first victim of the Purge.

    Not in favour of a purge but in Danczuk's case I will make an exception
  • Options

    https://www.change.org/p/the-labour-party-and-the-rochdale-constituency-offload-simon-danczuk-from-the-labour-party

    I see he thinks he is the first victim of the Purge.

    Not in favour of a purge but in Danczuk's case I will make an exception

    Purges always start like that and then get a life of their own.
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    Cameron can serve his time as PM..Quit when he chooses..then sue the shit out of the three stooges...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022

    Cameron can serve his time as PM..Quit when he chooses..then sue the shit out of the three stooges...

    Providing he does it within a year.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2015

    Cameron can serve his time as PM..Quit when he chooses..then sue the shit out of the three stooges...

    Why bother? He'll have a very successful stint as Prime Minister on the CV and in the history books, they'll be footnotes.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    Providing he does it within a year.

    ...from the date of publication, which presumably means the book, not the newspaper
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Charles said:

    The news cycle this week is piggate, refugees/migrants and VW catastrophe. Isnt it the Lib Dems conference this week but I don't see it covered on the media - shame really!!!

    A couple of people have referred to "Mr Whippy". I didn't see anything - wassup?
    Farron has proposed stopping vehicles from running their engines while parked. Our ice cream vans are apparently under threat!
  • Options

    https://www.change.org/p/the-labour-party-and-the-rochdale-constituency-offload-simon-danczuk-from-the-labour-party

    I see he thinks he is the first victim of the Purge.

    Not in favour of a purge but in Danczuk's case I will make an exception

    If it happens the press will have a field day. He is a good constituency MP and a 'purge' by the hard left will be counter productive - also Trident discussion at Conference will be interesting as most of the Unions are pro Trident not least because of the large number of jobs. If Corbyn loses Trident vote he will surely have to resign as he says he is a man of principle. If the Conference votes to abolish Trident Corbyn will survive but labour as we know it will not
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    while immensely rich party donors believe they should be given senior cabinet positions as a result of their donations.

    Or, more accurately, one immensely rich party donor thought he ought to get some kind of position, which he didn't get. Seems to be a problem with his expectations, not a criticism of the country.
    Ashcroft seems pretty sure something was offered to him. Either something was offered to him or something was offered to him and there was no intention of ever giving it to him. Either option does not reflect well on the Tories no matter which way you try and spin it.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Moses_ said:

    Today the EU (Merkel) just rewrote the rules on QMV... Countries that voted against the quotas will now be obliged to take them but this is as close to an unprecedented decision in the EU when nation states are involved so not normally under a QMV process. This is Merkel trying to save her ass, no ifs no buts. Clusterfucken.

    It's has been show only 1 in 5 are from Syria - published by EU.

    How will these countries who voted against now react given Merkel started the rush to the EU.


    BOO

    I think they should withdraw from schengen and refuse to implement Germany's decision.
    The only way to defeat the EU is to ignore it's decisions and refuse it's authority over the matter.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2015

    https://www.change.org/p/the-labour-party-and-the-rochdale-constituency-offload-simon-danczuk-from-the-labour-party

    I see he thinks he is the first victim of the Purge.

    Not in favour of a purge but in Danczuk's case I will make an exception

    I agree, no one loves Danczuck, he almost cost Labour a by-election to UKIP last year in a safe Labour seat.
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    Speedy said:

    Moses_ said:

    Today the EU (Merkel) just rewrote the rules on QMV... Countries that voted against the quotas will now be obliged to take them but this is as close to an unprecedented decision in the EU when nation states are involved so not normally under a QMV process. This is Merkel trying to save her ass, no ifs no buts. Clusterfucken.

    It's has been show only 1 in 5 are from Syria - published by EU.

    How will these countries who voted against now react given Merkel started the rush to the EU.


    BOO

    I think they should withdraw from schengen and refuse to implement Germany's decision.
    The only way to defeat the EU is to ignore it's decisions and refuse it's authority over the matter.
    It is inevitable
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Charles said:

    The news cycle this week is piggate, refugees/migrants and VW catastrophe. Isnt it the Lib Dems conference this week but I don't see it covered on the media - shame really!!!

    A couple of people have referred to "Mr Whippy". I didn't see anything - wassup?
    Farron has proposed stopping vehicles from running their engines while parked. ...
    Running an engine unnecessarily whilst stationary always used to be an offence in law. Was it ever made legal and if not has anyone pointed that out to Farron?
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    MP_SE said:

    Ashcroft seems pretty sure something was offered to him. Either something was offered to him or something was offered to him and there was no intention of ever giving it to him. Either option does not reflect well on the Tories no matter which way you try and spin it.

    Quite possibly Cameron did indicate he'd give him a position - after all, Lord Ashcroft had done some good work for the party and on political positioning, which impressed Cameron and many others. But there are no unconditional job offers in politics, and the row over the non-dom status would by itself have been enough to change the dynamics, even without the problem of the LibDems.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,196

    Charles said:

    The news cycle this week is piggate, refugees/migrants and VW catastrophe. Isnt it the Lib Dems conference this week but I don't see it covered on the media - shame really!!!

    A couple of people have referred to "Mr Whippy". I didn't see anything - wassup?
    Farron has proposed stopping vehicles from running their engines while parked. ...
    Running an engine unnecessarily whilst stationary always used to be an offence in law. Was it ever made legal and if not has anyone pointed that out to Farron?
    What else would you expect from the muppet party, what a clown.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    Dair said:

    Drug patents last for 20 years.

    How can a 62 year old drug still have rights to sell other than (potentially) branding?
    Congratulations to those Americans who think privatised medicine is good for them.
    It happens in the UK as well. Google Pfizer and Flynn if you want. So it's not a factor of privatised medicine.

    I haven't read up on this specific case, but it is a dark underbelly of the industry that these price gougers exist. It's not good for the patients, it's not good for the payors and it's not good for the industry as a whole. R&D is hideously expensive and risky, so you do need high prices on innovative drugs to fund it, but 20 years is quite long enough to generate returns: I'm fine with aggressive generics and fortunately payors are now wise to many of the old tricks (me-toos, reformulations, etc). Those patent extensions (paediatric extension, orphans, spc, data exclusivity) all exist for a reason & are an acceptable trade off.

    But gougers should be shot at dawn

    (I actually spent much of the morning gossiping with a former members of the senior leadership team at GSK and he pretty much agreed with the above)
    You maybe fine with aggressive generics, Mr. Charles, but I think there is a very large and very under reported problem with quality control with medicines from at least some. One day the excrement will hit the fan and there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth the like of which we have not seen for many a year.
    Quality control is absolutely an issue - although, TBF, most of the Western companies are pretty good. The Indians, on the other hand...
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited September 2015
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd guess Ashcroft is the "editor" of the Dave book and that it was his decision as to whether the pig's head should make an appearance. He is a billionaire and can basically do as he wishes as long as it is not criminal.

    This is the country that we live in: one where senior government ministers share weekends away with national newspaper editors and senior BBC figures, while immensely rich party donors believe they should be given senior cabinet positions as a result of their donations.

    And, in this instance, were roundly denied their expectation.

    It should not even be an issue.

    And for Dave it palpably wasn't.

    But how many immensely rich party donors have ever become Cabinet members as a consequence of their largesse. I'm struggling to think of even one. Perhaps you can help.

    PS They would have to be peers as MPs would have worked their way up the greasy pole.
    that's no way to talk about Daniel Kawczynsji
    Sorry, Brookie, that's too profound for me.
    Its OK Mr O it's been a long week for Tories and it's only Tuesday
    Oh, I'm not judgemental or censorious. After all down in deepest Elmbridge...

    http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/11819802.Complaints_over_elderly_men_in_tennis_skirts_having_Sunday_sex_sessions_in_park/
    I hear that recently a certain lost luggage rail office in the south of England contained some vintage Teddy Tingling items ....

    It's a mystery ....

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    Just watched Isabel Oakshott's Newsnight interview. My, doesn't she looked pleased with herself. Continually talked over Anthony Sheldon, as she did with Nick Ferrari this morning on LBC (which, takes some doing). I thought both Maitlin and Ferrari were quite easy on her, given that she has completely trashed the reputation of a serving prime minister, based on something, which could be completely untrue.

    If the PM had any second thoughts about not retiring before the next GE, then I suspect Samantha Cameron, having seen her husband and family dragged through the gutter has firmly put her four-inch heels through that idea. Is mother is also still alive, I believe?

    They got through the Red Rag scandal. If anything this latest mess is much, much tamer than McBride and Draper's thoroughly nasty scheme, which made insinuations about many things, including their recently-deceased son.

    Mind you, they were also planning lies about Osborne as well, including the mental health of his wife, and they appear to have got through it well enough.

    Labour is truly the nasty party.

    As an aside, I'm wondering if this latest scandal is just based on a rumour dating from the Red Rag days. ISTR that McBride was going to allege that there were secret tapes between Osborne and a prostitute. It's not too far to go from that to Cameron putting his honourable member into a dead pig's mouth, for which there's a photograph somewhere in existence, which someone has allegedly seen.

    Both involve something that is currently rumoured or known - Osborne and Rowe, and Cameron and Bullingdon, and extend it.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    Moses_ said:

    Today the EU (Merkel) just rewrote the rules on QMV... Countries that voted against the quotas will now be obliged to take them but this is as close to an unprecedented decision in the EU when nation states are involved so not normally under a QMV process. This is Merkel trying to save her ass, no ifs no buts. Clusterfucken.

    It's has been show only 1 in 5 are from Syria - published by EU.

    How will these countries who voted against now react given Merkel started the rush to the EU.


    BOO

    I think they should withdraw from schengen and refuse to implement Germany's decision.
    The only way to defeat the EU is to ignore it's decisions and refuse it's authority over the matter.
    It is inevitable
    The mechanics of the collapse is the same as that of the Holy Roman Empire which the EU is modeled after. Once the Barons, the Dukes and the Bishops ignored the rulings of the Emperor he simply became a figure head.
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    On another note, I spent a very interesting few hours at the ARM campus in Cambridge today. What an excellent company. It deserves a lot more recognition than it gets.
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    Has any politician so rapidly descended from universal respect to tomfoolery as quickly as Merkel?

    Saw a snippet of Sky News earlier today. Apparently Serbia are pissed about not being included in the talks today (as they're not in the EU). On the other hand, at least nobody will be trying to include them in the tyrannical quota system.

    Who needs to bother with an elected government when other countries can vote to ignore a country's will? It's almost as if the EU is a nonsensical mess, an undemocratic cabal of meddling eunuchs.
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    Charles said:

    The news cycle this week is piggate, refugees/migrants and VW catastrophe. Isnt it the Lib Dems conference this week but I don't see it covered on the media - shame really!!!

    A couple of people have referred to "Mr Whippy". I didn't see anything - wassup?
    Farron has proposed stopping vehicles from running their engines while parked. ...
    Running an engine unnecessarily whilst stationary always used to be an offence in law. Was it ever made legal and if not has anyone pointed that out to Farron?
    If people had Toyota hybrids this is never a problem.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2015

    Has any politician so rapidly descended from universal respect to tomfoolery as quickly as Merkel?

    Saw a snippet of Sky News earlier today. Apparently Serbia are pissed about not being included in the talks today (as they're not in the EU). On the other hand, at least nobody will be trying to include them in the tyrannical quota system.

    Who needs to bother with an elected government when other countries can vote to ignore a country's will? It's almost as if the EU is a nonsensical mess, an undemocratic cabal of meddling eunuchs.

    Tsipras, 5 months 3 weeks.

    As for the EU, do not forget it is modeled after another historical mess called the Holy Roman Empire.
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    On another note, I spent a very interesting few hours at the ARM campus in Cambridge today. What an excellent company. It deserves a lot more recognition than it gets.

    Ah, glad you enjoyed it. It's rather a magical place.

    Some truly great engineers work there. And yes, they deserve more recognition as one of Britain's most influential companies.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JackW said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd guess Ashcroft is the "editor" of the Dave book and that it was his decision as to whether the pig's head should make an appearance. He is a billionaire and can basically do as he wishes as long as it is not criminal.

    This is the country that we live in: one where senior government ministers share weekends away with national newspaper editors and senior BBC figures, while immensely rich party donors believe they should be given senior cabinet positions as a result of their donations.

    And, in this instance, were roundly denied their expectation.

    It should not even be an issue.

    And for Dave it palpably wasn't.

    But how many immensely rich party donors have ever become Cabinet members as a consequence of their largesse. I'm struggling to think of even one. Perhaps you can help.

    PS They would have to be peers as MPs would have worked their way up the greasy pole.
    that's no way to talk about Daniel Kawczynsji
    Sorry, Brookie, that's too profound for me.
    Its OK Mr O it's been a long week for Tories and it's only Tuesday
    Oh, I'm not judgemental or censorious. After all down in deepest Elmbridge...

    http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/11819802.Complaints_over_elderly_men_in_tennis_skirts_having_Sunday_sex_sessions_in_park/
    I hear that recently a certain lost luggage rail office in the south of England contained some vintage Teddy Tingling items ....

    It's a mystery ....

    It seems the Piers Gaveston society old boys reunion is causing a bit of a stir. Sounds as if they have added the nob to nobility.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    Dair said:

    Drug patents last for 20 years.

    How can a 62 year old drug still have rights to sell other than (potentially) branding?
    Congratulations to those Americans who think privatised medicine is good for them.
    It happens in the UK as well. Google Pfizer and Flynn if you want. So it's not a factor of privatised medicine.

    I haven't read up on this specific case, but it is a dark underbelly of the industry that these price gougers exist. It's not good for the patients, it's not good for the payors and it's not good for the industry as a whole. R&D is hideously expensive and risky, so you do need high prices on innovative drugs to fund it, but 20 years is quite long enough to generate returns: I'm fine with aggressive generics and fortunately payors are now wise to many of the old tricks (me-toos, reformulations, etc). Those patent extensions (paediatric extension, orphans, spc, data exclusivity) all exist for a reason & are an acceptable trade off.

    But gougers should be shot at dawn

    (I actually spent much of the morning gossiping with a former members of the senior leadership team at GSK and he pretty much agreed with the above)
    You maybe fine with aggressive generics, Mr. Charles, but I think there is a very large and very under reported problem with quality control with medicines from at least some. One day the excrement will hit the fan and there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth the like of which we have not seen for many a year.
    Quality control is absolutely an issue - although, TBF, most of the Western companies are pretty good. The Indians, on the other hand...
    Sorry, Mr. Charles, but if quality control is known to be an issue then why are drugs still being sourced from India? If the NHS is buying medicines that they do not know are effective, or even safe, then there would seem to be culpable recklessness in their procurement policies.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    edited September 2015
    On topic my previous audi said it did 30.4mpg and I got around 37 to 38 mpg out of it for the 7 years I had it, being a petrol engine. My current audi diesel says it will do 42.7mpg and I've got 43 to 44 mpg out of it for the last 7 years or so. My driving style and relative type of driving hasn't changed which is basically to go as quick as possible subject to the speed limits that I can get away with whilst maximising fuel efficiency.all sounds rather mathematical doesn't it! In view of the relative mpg differentials I've long thought many motor manufacturers do engage in sharp practice around mpg stats.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2015

    On another note, I spent a very interesting few hours at the ARM campus in Cambridge today. What an excellent company. It deserves a lot more recognition than it gets.

    It's a superb company, and my best ever investment. When ARM went public in 1998, I couldn't believe how low the valuation was (from memory, about £250m). No matter how I did the sums, I couldn't see how it could be worth less than about ten times as much. And the thing was that the future success of the company was basically already in the bag: anyone who read the technical press at the time would have seen that the entire industry was moving to adapt ARM technology for portable devices and for many other applications. It was almost impossible for it not to succeed hugely. I eventually sold my shares for thirty times what I'd paid for them.
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