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    Moses_ said:

    Link - The Times letters to the Editor - Page 24 August 6th 2015 ( Paper version)

    Absolutely Stunning first letter in the Times this morning from His Honour Judge Nigel Seed QC. He was the prosecuting council at the so called trial of the brothel keeper and the allegations against Ted Heath. He states the defendant said if the trial commenced allegations would be made.

    He explains that because of the allegation made at the time absolutely entirely unsubstantiated in any way, two witnesses refused to appear. One even when brought from Holloway refused to leave the court cell. There was no chance of any conviction let alone trial so his honour as the lead prosecutor decided to offer no evidence. and the defendant walked free without a trial. He states "the decision was mine and mine alone"

    So basically we have simply trashed a PM for absolutely no reason, no foundation, no evidence and hearsay. Why did Wiltshire police not just ask him instead of standing outside his house at a press conference and fanning a no existent fire ??

    I don't like Heath by the way but this goes way beyond this.

    The best thing to come out of this, was the reaction of some of the deranged Outers.

    I paraphrase, pro-EU people like Heath were only pro-EU because they were blackmailed into being Pro-EU because they are paedos.

    Still it has been a good week for manufacturers of tin foil
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,835
    edited August 2015
    Dair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dair said:


    I concede there is some interpretation here, I gave you mine.

    Of course what really matters is what other countries decide. And there would no doubt be more than enough who would decide that it is a new state (thus removing it as a UN Security Council member and likely leading to Security Council reform).

    Recognition is not a Security Council matter, it is a General Assembly matter and as such would only require one objection and a simple majority in the vote.

    I don't fancy England's chances.

    TBH Dair, I would be surprised if there were a problem for a post-independence UK from that point of view. I'm not an expert and if I'm wrong I'd be happy to be corrected, but I don't recall Sudan being considered a 'new' country after the secession of South Sudan, or Pakistan after the independence of Bangladesh, or Australia following Papua New Guinea's independence (that one was on much the same terms Salmond was asking for Scotland last year).

    Like I say, I could be wrong, and none of them had a security council seat or nuclear weapons (at that time) which may make a difference. But I think those would be ample precedents under international law that the UK would continue and Scotland would be a new state.
    As I said, it's all down to interpretation.
    So if Edinburgh (population 465,000 about the same as Scotland as a percentage of the UK) seceded from Scotland - Scotland would have to change its name and reapply to join the UN?
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    antifrank said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's also worth noting that in fiction, hurting animals (or protecting them from harm) is a pretty much bulletproof indicator over whether someone's an utter **** or not. Harming humans to a great extent can be made explicable or even acceptable, but the same doesn't apply to animals.

    House of Cards [original programme] didn't get any complaints when FU murdered someone, but when he shot his dog (effectively putting it down as the hound as very old, and not shown on-screen) there were many. And that was [arguably, at least] humane.

    As an aside, I gave Sir Edric's manservant the name 'Dog'. Hopefully that conveys an immediate sense of closeness but also a very definite pecking order.

    Undoubtedly. Heroes and heroines in Grimdark fiction practice mass crucifixion, flaying, live burning, torture, and rape, without undermining their appeal to the general reader. But, hurting an animal would place them beyond redemption.
    Not just fiction. Remember the hero status bestowed on Sefton after the other 7 horses were killed by the IRA bomb in 1981? Apparently four guardsmen were killed as well, but they seemed to get less attention.

    It was even mentioned as the key part of the story in this very tragic follow-up:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9579686/Father-who-killed-children-was-rider-of-Sefton-survivor-of-Hyde-Park-IRA-bomb-attack.html
    Horses are a British thing.

    In the mid-1990s I shared an office with an American colleague. One morning, as we were starting to work, he expressed his bemusement at the front pages of the broadsheets covering the death of a racehorse. "Ah, but it's Red Rum", I said. "He was very special". He looked blank.

    One of my other colleagues walked in the room at this point and I filled her in on our discussion. "BUT IT'S RED RUM" she half-shouted.

    I don't think he ever really understood.
    I thought horses was a Russian thing, or maybe Catherine the Great was the only Russian with a horse fixation
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,026
    edited August 2015
    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's also worth noting that in fiction, hurting animals (or protecting them from harm) is a pretty much bulletproof indicator over whether someone's an utter **** or not. Harming humans to a great extent can be made explicable or even acceptable, but the same doesn't apply to animals.

    House of Cards [original programme] didn't get any complaints when FU murdered someone, but when he shot his dog (effectively putting it down as the hound as very old, and not shown on-screen) there were many. And that was [arguably, at least] humane.

    As an aside, I gave Sir Edric's manservant the name 'Dog'. Hopefully that conveys an immediate sense of closeness but also a very definite pecking order.

    Undoubtedly. Heroes and heroines in Grimdark fiction practice mass crucifixion, flaying, live burning, torture, and rape, without undermining their appeal to the general reader. But, hurting an animal would place them beyond redemption.
    Not just fiction. Remember the hero status bestowed on Sefton after the other 7 horses were killed by the IRA bomb in 1981? Apparently four guardsmen were killed as well, but they seemed to get less attention.

    It was even mentioned as the key part of the story in this very tragic follow-up:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9579686/Father-who-killed-children-was-rider-of-Sefton-survivor-of-Hyde-Park-IRA-bomb-attack.html
    Horses are a British thing.

    In the mid-1990s I shared an office with an American colleague. One morning, as we were starting to work, he expressed his bemusement at the front pages of the broadsheets covering the death of a racehorse. "Ah, but it's Red Rum", I said. "He was very special". He looked blank.

    One of my other colleagues walked in the room at this point and I filled her in on our discussion. "BUT IT'S RED RUM" she half-shouted.

    I don't think he ever really understood.
    If he'd been from Kentucky he'd have understood.

    I have an American boss who's obsessed with racing. On those occasions when he's over, we often spend half our time looking at the Racing Post and discussing horses rather than anything as tiresome as work.

    When Zenyatta passes away it'll be on all the US bulletins I suspect. Certain animals, particularly horses are inherent to the psyche of a nation, Red Rum was here - Secretariat for the USA.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    Plato said:

    I saw that and was WTF? The whole circus started with a false premise.

    Moses_ said:

    Link - The Times letters to the Editor - Page 24 August 6th 2015 ( Paper version)

    Absolutely Stunning first letter in the Times this morning from His Honour Judge Nigel Seed QC. He was the prosecuting council at the so called trial of the brothel keeper and the allegations against Ted Heath. He states the defendant said if the trial commenced allegations would be made.

    He explains that because of the allegation made at the time absolutely entirely unsubstantiated in any way, two witnesses refused to appear. One even when brought from Holloway refused to leave the court cell. There was no chance of any conviction let alone trial so his honour as the lead prosecutor decided to offer no evidence. and the defendant walked free without a trial. He states "the decision was mine and mine alone"

    So basically we have simply trashed a PM for absolutely no reason, no foundation, no evidence and hearsay. Why did Wiltshire police not just ask him instead of standing outside his house at a press conference and fanning a no existent fire ??

    I don't like Heath by the way but this goes way beyond this.

    Good article which agrees with many points made on this thread, even before the latest questions about the whole saga were raised

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/05/convict-dead-defenceless-case-edward-heath

    (I have seen it's in the Guardian. It's still a good read.)
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2015
    Re Batman - she's quoted in the Times saying she "felt no personal responsibility" for the collapse.

    O_o

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4518761.ece
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Dont you just love "virtue signalling"?
    http://labourlist.org/2015/08/why-weve-launched-the-labour-campaign-to-end-homelessness/

    An article on Labour list about how homelessness is, in this age of austerity a terrible problem, and they need to have a policy to deal with this epidemic. I couldnt resist pointing out in the comments that homelessness is at an historically unusually low level, and substantially lower than what it was a decade ago, even with the mild uptick since the coalition took over in 2010.

    When you are in a climate of tight resources, you have to use those resources in the most efficient way possible. Focusing on an issue that has already reduced by two thirds is maybe not where you should be looking.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Off Topic: Tube Strike

    Had a pretty easy journey in again today, guess that's the luck of being on the north side of the river.

    IMHO I don't take a stance on the strike. It's a matter for TFL and the unions to sort out. The way the Tories always politicize this and demand Labour condemn the strike is pretty pathetic. As is their continued obsession with tube driver salaries.

    Yes the strike is a bit of a pain in the arse, but that's the point!

    and you don't see the point of the Tories approach?
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    edited August 2015
    notme said:

    Dont you just love "virtue signalling"?
    http://labourlist.org/2015/08/why-weve-launched-the-labour-campaign-to-end-homelessness/

    An article on Labour list about how homelessness is, in this age of austerity a terrible problem, and they need to have a policy to deal with this epidemic. I couldnt resist pointing out in the comments that homelessness is at an historically unusually low level, and substantially lower than what it was a decade ago, even with the mild uptick since the coalition took over in 2010.

    When you are in a climate of tight resources, you have to use those resources in the most efficient way possible. Focusing on an issue that has already reduced by two thirds is maybe not where you should be looking.

    Do they mean rough sleeping?

    Homelessness is much wider. (And there are parts of the homelessness regime which need a look at.)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @WikiGuido: Just a Scouse Ed Miliband? Burnham's "credible" vision has no mention of the deficit on pledge card or 5 point plan http://t.co/Cte1VTgm3D
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    edited August 2015
    England bowl (reckless perhaps, with a rookie attack)

    Australia 1 change - Shaun Marsh replaces his brother.

    Wood in for Anderson.

    Both these attacks could leak runs very quickly. They're both led by experienced but mercurial bowlers, backed up by excellent pacemen who are inexperienced and lose line and length quickly under pressure, and two fairly ordinary spinners. England do though have five bowlers, Australia just four (it's even being said Voges might bowl if needed)!

    Could be a very entertaining match, especially as I see Rogers has helpfully thrown away his wicket third ball.
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    2 in the first over for Broad
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    ydoethur said:

    England bowl (reckless perhaps, with a rookie attack)

    Australia 1 change - Shaun Marsh replaces his brother.

    Wood in for Anderson.

    Both these attacks could leak runs very quickly. They're both led by experienced but mercurial bowlers, backed up by excellent pacemen who are inexperienced and lose line and length quickly under pressure, and two fairly ordinary spinners. England do though have five bowlers, Australia just four (it's even being said Voges might bowl if needed)!

    Could be a very entertaining match, especially as I see Rogers has helpfully thrown away his wicket third ball.

    Now 10 for 2 after 1 over!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    ydoethur said:

    England bowl (reckless perhaps, with a rookie attack)

    Ahem...
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    ydoethur said:

    England bowl (reckless perhaps, with a rookie attack)

    Australia 1 change - Shaun Marsh replaces his brother.

    Wood in for Anderson.

    Both these attacks could leak runs very quickly. They're both led by experienced but mercurial bowlers, backed up by excellent pacemen who are inexperienced and lose line and length quickly under pressure, and two fairly ordinary spinners. England do though have five bowlers, Australia just four (it's even being said Voges might bowl if needed)!

    Could be a very entertaining match, especially as I see Rogers has helpfully thrown away his wicket third ball.

    Now 10 for 2 after 1 over!
    Perhaps they think this would be a 5 over game?!
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    My word, Smith in the first over too. Broad on fire here.

    What was that silly remark I made about it being reckless to bowl? He hasn't needed anyone at the other end yet!
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    Bloody hell.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536

    ydoethur said:

    England bowl (reckless perhaps, with a rookie attack)

    Australia 1 change - Shaun Marsh replaces his brother.

    Wood in for Anderson.

    Both these attacks could leak runs very quickly. They're both led by experienced but mercurial bowlers, backed up by excellent pacemen who are inexperienced and lose line and length quickly under pressure, and two fairly ordinary spinners. England do though have five bowlers, Australia just four (it's even being said Voges might bowl if needed)!

    Could be a very entertaining match, especially as I see Rogers has helpfully thrown away his wicket third ball.

    Now 10 for 2 after 1 over!
    Perhaps they think this would be a 5 over game?!
    NOOO! Think of those people who have tickets for tomorrow!

    (I haven't any tickets at all, by the way. It's just virtue signalling.)
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    isamisam Posts: 41,037
    edited August 2015
    Wowzers

    Clarke will really appreciate the move from 4 to 5
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    26 all out is the test record.

    Just saying.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    WARNER VS WOOD! What's happening?

    THis is like watching the Windies in the glory days, when they were 15-5 after three overs.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    10-3 !!

    What's the lowest score ever for Aus?
    #daretodream
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:


    Letwin's too otherworldly for that.

    But I wonder if Gorgeous George had a word with Matt?

    THe man who gave us the word 'omnishambles'? I don't think we should get carried away.

    In any case, if that was the idea it hasn't really worked - the Grauniad is still pushing the 'Tories eat babies' line:
    'Kids Company closure: 6,000 children have lost support
    Charity’s founder blames civil servants, ministers and media for its demise, as government seeks alternative services for at risk youngsters
    ...Outside the charity’s premises in Camberwell, south London, Sharlene Reid, 27, who had been supported by Kids Company as a youngster and volunteered there herself, said the street outside had earlier seen protests by parents and children who relied on the charity’s services.

    She said: “You just drop the bomb like that and expect people to just move on? There’s people’s lives at stake here, as well as the children. What about them?

    “We have to make the government hear us. We were protesting. It was not planned, we all came here because they said it was shutting down, come and collect your things. My friend WhatsApped me this morning and I said, ‘it’s got that bad?’
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/05/kids-company-closure-6000-children-have-lost-support

    The one thing I still don't understand: what services exactly did this charity provide? What did it actually do?



    Probably stuff that parents should be doing.

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    edited August 2015

    26 all out is the test record.

    Just saying.

    A very similar side was 21-9 against SA not so long ago:

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/514029.html

    EDIT: what am I saying? Only about 3 men were the same. Shows how quickly Australia have had to change.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2015
    I've got a ticket for day 5... Not looking good.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,037
    14 runs leaked off 9 balls... No control without Jimmy
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    Just out of client meeting, did we win the toss? Time to put on TMS on delay.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    isam said:

    Wowzers

    Clarke will really appreciate the move from 4 to 5

    Gavaskar, I think it was, dropped from opening to 4 during a lean run, and the opener and 3 got ducks. As he walked in, a bowler said 'doesn't matter where you bat, score's still 0.' He went on to score something like 200...
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536

    Just out of client meeting, did we win the toss? Time to put on TMS on delay.

    Well, you've missed quite a lot of the Aussie innings already I'm afraid...
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    Wowzers

    Clarke will really appreciate the move from 4 to 5

    Gavaskar, I think it was, dropped from opening to 4 during a lean run, and the opener and 3 got ducks. As he walked in, a bowler said 'doesn't matter where you bat, score's still 0.' He went on to score something like 200...
    Viv Richards, apparently:

    http://www.cricketsledges.com/viv-richards-and-sunil-gavaskar/
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    Just out of client meeting, did we win the toss? Time to put on TMS on delay.

    Is a great toss to win and bowl.

    Even Jade Dernbach could take wickets on this pitch.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    *wipes tea from keyboard*
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    England bowl (reckless perhaps, with a rookie attack)

    Australia 1 change - Shaun Marsh replaces his brother.

    Wood in for Anderson.

    Both these attacks could leak runs very quickly. They're both led by experienced but mercurial bowlers, backed up by excellent pacemen who are inexperienced and lose line and length quickly under pressure, and two fairly ordinary spinners. England do though have five bowlers, Australia just four (it's even being said Voges might bowl if needed)!

    Could be a very entertaining match, especially as I see Rogers has helpfully thrown away his wicket third ball.

    Now 10 for 2 after 1 over!
    Perhaps they think this would be a 5 over game?!
    NOOO! Think of those people who have tickets for tomorrow!

    (I haven't any tickets at all, by the way. It's just virtue signalling.)
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    Oh my word x 4

    Will Cook declare at lunch or tea?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536

    Oh my word x 4

    Will Cook declare at lunch or tea?

    Shaun Marsh really was so much better than his bro...

    But let's not get carried away. Even on this pitch, Dernbach would surely get carted.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,380

    Dair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dair said:


    I concede there is some interpretation here, I gave you mine.

    Of course what really matters is what other countries decide. And there would no doubt be more than enough who would decide that it is a new state (thus removing it as a UN Security Council member and likely leading to Security Council reform).

    Recognition is not a Security Council matter, it is a General Assembly matter and as such would only require one objection and a simple majority in the vote.

    I don't fancy England's chances.

    TBH Dair, I would be surprised if there were a problem for a post-independence UK from that point of view. I'm not an expert and if I'm wrong I'd be happy to be corrected, but I don't recall Sudan being considered a 'new' country after the secession of South Sudan, or Pakistan after the independence of Bangladesh, or Australia following Papua New Guinea's independence (that one was on much the same terms Salmond was asking for Scotland last year).

    Like I say, I could be wrong, and none of them had a security council seat or nuclear weapons (at that time) which may make a difference. But I think those would be ample precedents under international law that the UK would continue and Scotland would be a new state.
    As I said, it's all down to interpretation.
    So if Edinburgh (population 465,000 about the same as Scotland as a percentage of the UK) seceded from Scotland - Scotland would have to change its name and reapply to join the UN?
    Whit happened to puir, wee Glenrothes? A reductio ad absurdum too far or the sickening realisation you'd screwed up your percentages?
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,079
    notme said:

    Dont you just love "virtue signalling"?
    http://labourlist.org/2015/08/why-weve-launched-the-labour-campaign-to-end-homelessness/

    An article on Labour list about how homelessness is, in this age of austerity a terrible problem, and they need to have a policy to deal with this epidemic. I couldnt resist pointing out in the comments that homelessness is at an historically unusually low level, and substantially lower than what it was a decade ago, even with the mild uptick since the coalition took over in 2010.

    When you are in a climate of tight resources, you have to use those resources in the most efficient way possible. Focusing on an issue that has already reduced by two thirds is maybe not where you should be looking.

    But this virtue signalling is, at least, free on a blog and costless to the taxpayer.

    Yesterday's sale of RBS shares into the global financial crisis market, in the aftermath of the most intense point of the European sovereign debt crisis, in a low-interest rate environment, was a massive virtue signal about the "propriety" of privatisation, probably costing the taxpayer millions of pounds.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,835
    edited August 2015

    Dair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dair said:


    I concede there is some interpretation here, I gave you mine.

    Of course what really matters is what other countries decide. And there would no doubt be more than enough who would decide that it is a new state (thus removing it as a UN Security Council member and likely leading to Security Council reform).

    Recognition is not a Security Council matter, it is a General Assembly matter and as such would only require one objection and a simple majority in the vote.

    I don't fancy England's chances.

    TBH Dair, I would be surprised if there were a problem for a post-independence UK from that point of view. I'm not an expert and if I'm wrong I'd be happy to be corrected, but I don't recall Sudan being considered a 'new' country after the secession of South Sudan, or Pakistan after the independence of Bangladesh, or Australia following Papua New Guinea's independence (that one was on much the same terms Salmond was asking for Scotland last year).

    Like I say, I could be wrong, and none of them had a security council seat or nuclear weapons (at that time) which may make a difference. But I think those would be ample precedents under international law that the UK would continue and Scotland would be a new state.
    As I said, it's all down to interpretation.
    So if Edinburgh (population 465,000 about the same as Scotland as a percentage of the UK) seceded from Scotland - Scotland would have to change its name and reapply to join the UN?
    Whit happened to puir, wee Glenrothes? A reductio ad absurdum too far or the sickening realisation you'd screwed up your percentages?
    At least I correct my misteps - hows that $150 oil doing?

    Edit - I know 'its neither good nor bad for Scotland that oil is $50/barrel'.....
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    On topic, Nuneaton.

    That brings back happy memories.
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:


    Letwin's too otherworldly for that.

    But I wonder if Gorgeous George had a word with Matt?

    THe man who gave us the word 'omnishambles'? I don't think we should get carried away.

    In any case, if that was the idea it hasn't really worked - the Grauniad is still pushing the 'Tories eat babies' line:
    'Kids Company closure: 6,000 children have lost support
    Charity’s founder blames civil servants, ministers and media for its demise, as government seeks alternative services for at risk youngsters
    ...Outside the charity’s premises in Camberwell, south London, Sharlene Reid, 27, who had been supported by Kids Company as a youngster and volunteered there herself, said the street outside had earlier seen protests by parents and children who relied on the charity’s services.

    She said: “You just drop the bomb like that and expect people to just move on? There’s people’s lives at stake here, as well as the children. What about them?

    “We have to make the government hear us. We were protesting. It was not planned, we all came here because they said it was shutting down, come and collect your things. My friend WhatsApped me this morning and I said, ‘it’s got that bad?’
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/05/kids-company-closure-6000-children-have-lost-support
    The Guardian is not a serious newspaper. It decides its opinions regardless of any facts, frankly. Anything a Tory government does is wrong, in its eyes.

    The one thing I still don't understand: what services exactly did this charity provide? What did it actually do? What went on at its Camberwell premises? And are there really 6000 children in South London reliant on KC?

    The "6000 kids have lost support" line could mean just that. But it's vague enough to encompass: we have a library here available to 6000 kids and if it closes they can't use it even though in fact only 38 kids actually use it or, if it closes, they can go to another library a bit further away.



    The Guardian's editorial policy is "what can we publish today which might embarrass the Tories? And by the way, make sure the BBC have plenty of copies - they use us for their story board."

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    So at the crease, two batsmen who haven't been able to buy a run this summer, then we're into the tail.

    This is astonishing. Any markets on whether Michael Clarke will resign mid-match to let someone else (Smith) explain the disaster to the press?
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    ydoethur said:

    calum said:

    Sensible move by Ruth D, unless there is a major in sentiment I can't see the Tories or LibDems getting a list seat in Glasgow. Tommy Sheridan is the wild card candidate.

    In terms of Lothian, she'll need to ensure she is at the top of the list to be sure of getting a seat, not sure what the process the Tories use to determine this though.

    Nor do I, but I'm guessing that it's probably not names out of a hat and that being the leader may be of some small assistance to her.

    The list systems used in this country absolutely stink. They are the most blatant form of political patronage in elections - ignoring the Lords, for a minute - since the abolition of the rotten boroughs in 1832.
    Your mention of rotten boroughs prodded me into thinking that Labour has brought back the central concept of rotten boroughs i.e. "Cash for Votes". However they have tweaked the process by making the voter pay rather than vice versa; an insight into Labour's grip on the meaning of democracy?
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    "Ohio, the Nuneaton of US politics"

    Excellent. Presumably this makes Liverpool Walton Hawaii?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    Something wrong that over - nobody lost their wicket. You can't say Clarke didn't try very hard, but he failed. Not good enough.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    F*ck me.
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    What a catch.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    21 for 5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    Normal service now resumed.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    To slightly misquote Mhir Bhose after that earlier match I linked to: 'No pitch in the world is a 21 for 5 pitch.'
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,380
    edited August 2015

    Dair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dair said:


    I concede there is some interpretation here, I gave you mine.

    Of course what really matters is what other countries decide. And there would no doubt be more than enough who would decide that it is a new state (thus removing it as a UN Security Council member and likely leading to Security Council reform).

    Recognition is not a Security Council matter, it is a General Assembly matter and as such would only require one objection and a simple majority in the vote.

    I don't fancy England's chances.

    TBH Dair, I would be surprised if there were a problem for a post-independence UK from that point of view. I'm not an expert and if I'm wrong I'd be happy to be corrected, but I don't recall Sudan being considered a 'new' country after the secession of South Sudan, or Pakistan after the independence of Bangladesh, or Australia following Papua New Guinea's independence (that one was on much the same terms Salmond was asking for Scotland last year).

    Like I say, I could be wrong, and none of them had a security council seat or nuclear weapons (at that time) which may make a difference. But I think those would be ample precedents under international law that the UK would continue and Scotland would be a new state.
    As I said, it's all down to interpretation.
    So if Edinburgh (population 465,000 about the same as Scotland as a percentage of the UK) seceded from Scotland - Scotland would have to change its name and reapply to join the UN?
    Whit happened to puir, wee Glenrothes? A reductio ad absurdum too far or the sickening realisation you'd screwed up your percentages?
    At least I correct my misteps - hows that $150 oil doing?

    Edit - I know 'its neither good nor bad for Scotland that oil is $50/barrel'.....
    PB's very own Vicky Pollard strikes back with a zinger!

    'Why can't you tell the difference between 1% & 10%?'

    'Yebbut oil prices, nobbut NHS Scotland waiting times, yebbut Police Scotland call centres, nobbut Salmonds tartan trews...' etc unto infinity.
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    To think most of us were worried that we were going to miss Jimmy in this match.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Bad news guys, we've brought Nevill to the crease.

    In the fifth over...
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    @DavidRoe92: Just worked out Tube drivers are all cricket fans.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Cue for record partnerships for 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th wickets as England bowlers toil in the heat bowling with witless field placements by Cook.

    Wasn't that the perceived wisdom not so long ago?

    Still stunned by that score.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536

    @DavidRoe92: Just worked out Tube drivers are all cricket fans.

    So they'll be back to work by lunchtime?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,026
    edited August 2015
    Just dipped my toes in the water with a +£55/-£200 lay of Australia.

    There is no way they should be 7-2 here.
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,079
    ydoethur said:

    calum said:

    Sensible move by Ruth D, unless there is a major in sentiment I can't see the Tories or LibDems getting a list seat in Glasgow. Tommy Sheridan is the wild card candidate.

    In terms of Lothian, she'll need to ensure she is at the top of the list to be sure of getting a seat, not sure what the process the Tories use to determine this though.

    Nor do I, but I'm guessing that it's probably not names out of a hat and that being the leader may be of some small assistance to her.

    The list systems used in this country absolutely stink. They are the most blatant form of political patronage in elections - ignoring the Lords, for a minute - since the abolition of the rotten boroughs in 1832.
    Yes, including the one-person list used for elections to Westminster.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,835

    Dair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dair said:


    I concede there is some interpretation here, I gave you mine.

    Of course what really matters is what other countries decide. And there would no doubt be more than enough who would decide that it is a new state (thus removing it as a UN Security Council member and likely leading to Security Council reform).

    Recognition is not a Security Council matter, it is a General Assembly matter and as such would only require one objection and a simple majority in the vote.

    I don't fancy England's chances.

    TBH Dair, I would be surprised if there were a problem for a post-independence UK from that point of view. I'm not an expert and if I'm wrong I'd be happy to be corrected, but I don't recall Sudan being considered a 'new' country after the secession of South Sudan, or Pakistan after the independence of Bangladesh, or Australia following Papua New Guinea's independence (that one was on much the same terms Salmond was asking for Scotland last year).

    Like I say, I could be wrong, and none of them had a security council seat or nuclear weapons (at that time) which may make a difference. But I think those would be ample precedents under international law that the UK would continue and Scotland would be a new state.
    As I said, it's all down to interpretation.
    So if Edinburgh (population 465,000 about the same as Scotland as a percentage of the UK) seceded from Scotland - Scotland would have to change its name and reapply to join the UN?
    Whit happened to puir, wee Glenrothes? A reductio ad absurdum too far or the sickening realisation you'd screwed up your percentages?
    At least I correct my misteps - hows that $150 oil doing?

    Edit - I know 'its neither good nor bad for Scotland that oil is $50/barrel'.....
    PB's very own Vicky Pollard strikes back with a zinger!

    'Why can't you tell the difference between 1% & 10%?'

    'Yebbut oil prices, nobbut NHS Scotland waiting times, yebbut Police Scotland call centres, nobbut Salmonds tartan trews...etc' unto infinity.
    The original point still stands - secession of 8% of a countries population does not lead to the cavalcade of devastations wreaked upon the remaining 92% of some Nats fond imaginings....and as usual, I haven't intruded on the private grief of the SNP's bungled Police reforms, but revealing that you are so sensitive to it.....
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    Phil Tufnell, contender for Order of the Bleedin' Obvious:

    'Australia need to try and get some sort of partnership going here.'
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    Anyone backed the draw?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    ydoethur said:

    @DavidRoe92: Just worked out Tube drivers are all cricket fans.

    So they'll be back to work by lunchtime?
    At least the pb comments are on form, unlike Australia.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,026

    Anyone backed the draw?

    Not really, but it is green on my screen ;p
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2015
    Re what KC did. Camilla Long wasn't very impressed and describes the set up as a hippy-dippy version of Google mixed with Batman's narcissicm. http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/People/article1577174.ece

    Frankly, it sounds a bit like Scientology to my ears when I read about *weekly supervisions* with staff. Camilla met 75 staff and 2 children over 9hrs over 2 days.

    Everyone appears to get these from kids, to their parents to the staff:

    - reflexology
    - hypnotism
    - massage [with the door unlocked]
    - spa treatments
    - manicures
    - facials
    - meals
    - pocket money in brown envelops

    - 73% of funds goes on staff, there appear to be more staff than children and a huge focus on labeling behaviour [that sounds pretty average] with -isms.

    On Batman, she claims that she can barely read and can't do sums [despite being at boarding school from 11yrs], has 3 PAs, has never read a novel and can't drive or even open an ironing board.

    Make of that what you will.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,037
    Arfur Daley has died
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    dr_spyn said:

    ydoethur said:

    @DavidRoe92: Just worked out Tube drivers are all cricket fans.

    So they'll be back to work by lunchtime?
    At least the pb comments are on form, unlike Australia.

    Geoff Boycott is on now. Judging from his comments, he's backed a draw. Oh wait, it's Boycott, so he's just being himself.

    He hasn't mentioned his grandmother yet, but it can't be long.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,027
    Mr. F, no, I can't say I have.

    It's important for fiction to be able to delve into grim areas, whether that's violence, sex, psychological pain or humour that is deemed to cross the line. It's one of various areas that makes me worried about freedom of speech given the bleating that comes from some quarters about how offended/upset they are.

    As an aside, I have acquired a puppy. She has mastered the art of going outside twice, then urinating in the kitchen. The plus side of having had a large (30-35kg, circa 4st) dog that was prone to diarrhoea that took 1-2 hours to clean up is that puppy crap is like playing a videogame on easy when you've already beaten it on nightmare mode.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,835
    edited August 2015
    Actor George Cole - Arfur Daley has died - at least at a good age - 90.

    Where will the SNP go for policies now......
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    Feck me

    6 down.
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    I'm going to be so pissed off when I wake up from this dream, and the Aussies are in fact 500/0
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    edited August 2015
    This is just getting silly now. Surely that's the death knell of Clarke's career?
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,849
    edited August 2015
    All you need to know about the Ashes.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/629240486214025216
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    isamisam Posts: 41,037
    Incredible

    Poor shot from Clarke

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    What's wrong with the Aussies?
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Who'd back Australia at any price now?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    England batting before lunch?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,026
    edited August 2015

    Who'd back Australia at any price now?

    Well they are 5.6 on Betfair.

    I've laid the bejeesus out of them, see downthread.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536

    I'm going to be so pissed off when I wake up from this dream, and the Aussies are in fact 500/0

    6 overs - only 2 without wickets.

    Astonishing.

    My remark about the wisdom of bowling first at the start looks more cretinous by the second.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,037
    One thing that has slightly upset me about the Aussie batting today, Chris Rogers' duck was his first in test cricket in his penultimate game

    Would have been nice if he had gone through his test career duck less
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,027
    Mr. Doethur, we all bugger things up sometimes. I made a loss in the first six races of this F1 season.
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    ydoethur said:

    I'm going to be so pissed off when I wake up from this dream, and the Aussies are in fact 500/0

    6 overs - only 2 without wickets.

    Astonishing.

    My remark about the wisdom of bowling first at the start looks more cretinous by the second.
    Fortunately for you, no one on PB ever remembers somebody else making a bad prediction.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Pulpstar said:

    Who'd back Australia at any price now?

    Well they are 5.6 on Betfair.
    I know. And just 4.33 with Ladbrokes.

    The pitch isn't doing much, confidence will be high and terrible for the Aussies. Even if they rescue this to say 150 you can see them repeating the same mistake in the second innings.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:


    Letwin's too otherworldly for that.

    But I wonder if Gorgeous George had a word with Matt?

    THe man who gave us the word 'omnishambles'? I don't think we should get carried away.

    In any case, if that was the idea it hasn't really worked - the Grauniad is still pushing the 'Tories eat babies' line:
    'Kids Company closure: 6,000 children have lost support
    Charity’s founder blames civil servants, ministers and media for its demise, as government seeks alternative services for at risk youngsters
    ...Outside the charity’s premises in Camberwell, south London, Sharlene Reid, 27, who had been supported by Kids Company as a youngster and volunteered there herself, said the street outside had earlier seen protests by parents and children who relied on the charity’s services.

    She said: “You just drop the bomb like that and expect people to just move on? There’s people’s lives at stake here, as well as the children. What about them?

    “We have to make the government hear us. We were protesting. It was not planned, we all came here because they said it was shutting down, come and collect your things. My friend WhatsApped me this morning and I said, ‘it’s got that bad?’
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/05/kids-company-closure-6000-children-have-lost-support
    The Guardian is not a serious newspaper. It decides its opinions regardless of any facts, frankly. Anything a Tory government does is wrong, in its eyes.

    The one thing I still don't understand: what services exactly did this charity provide? What did it actually do? What went on at its Camberwell premises? And are there really 6000 children in South London reliant on KC?

    The "6000 kids have lost support" line could mean just that. But it's vague enough to encompass: we have a library here available to 6000 kids and if it closes they can't use it even though in fact only 38 kids actually use it or, if it closes, they can go to another library a bit further away.



    I'd assume that it is 'we've supported 6,000 kids in the last 20 years'...
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    On the subject of horses, Herself tells me that the University of Sussex have run a research project which proves horses have facial expressions which show their mood and emotions. Well, ffs, who would have thought it? Anyone who has been around horses for even a short time could have told them that. What next I wonder, HEFC gives a research grant to a team seeking to explore whether the sun really does rise in the East?

    At a time when funding for science research is under such severe strain what on earth are we doing spending taxpayers money to prove the bleedin' obvious and common knowledge?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    So far about 80,000 spectators who bought tickets for the Ashes have had their day fail to materialise due to an early finish. Looks like that could hit 100,000 with this match.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    Boycott now saying that this is the worst batting he has ever seen from an Australian side in 50 years of watching cricket.

    Hard to imagine that it's wrong - when have Australia ever collapsed like this in England? At least they made it to about 30 before the procession began at Headingley in 1981.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What's your new lady's name? Love the video game analogy!

    I have a kitty with a runny bum that nothing will fix. Her favourite trick is going in the tray, then jumping on my knee/bed... I push her off, then she washes her tail...

    Mr. F, no, I can't say I have.

    It's important for fiction to be able to delve into grim areas, whether that's violence, sex, psychological pain or humour that is deemed to cross the line. It's one of various areas that makes me worried about freedom of speech given the bleating that comes from some quarters about how offended/upset they are.

    As an aside, I have acquired a puppy. She has mastered the art of going outside twice, then urinating in the kitchen. The plus side of having had a large (30-35kg, circa 4st) dog that was prone to diarrhoea that took 1-2 hours to clean up is that puppy crap is like playing a videogame on easy when you've already beaten it on nightmare mode.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,027
    Mr. Llama, when at university and writing essays and so forth, it was important to cite published studies.

    The most moronic of which was a study that literally showed black is darker than white.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536

    On the subject of horses, Herself tells me that the University of Sussex have run a research project which proves horses have facial expressions which show their mood and emotions. Well, ffs, who would have thought it? Anyone who has been around horses for even a short time could have told them that. What next I wonder, HEFC gives a research grant to a team seeking to explore whether the sun really does rise in the East?

    At a time when funding for science research is under such severe strain what on earth are we doing spending taxpayers money to prove the bleedin' obvious and common knowledge?

    There was a time when a research grant was given to find the way to cook the perfect piece of toast. Apparently it was with a toaster. (Honestly, I am not making that up.)
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    isamisam Posts: 41,037
    Pulpstar said:

    Who'd back Australia at any price now?

    Well they are 5.6 on Betfair.

    I've laid the bejeesus out of them, see downthread.
    Wouldn't you have been better backing England?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,027
    Miss Plato, Meg. Got her suddenly [parents keen to get one]. I would've preferred to think of a better name, but Meg's not awful and we can't call her 'dog' whilst I spend several weeks contemplating the matter.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    She claimed 36 000...
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:


    Letwin's too otherworldly for that.

    But I wonder if Gorgeous George had a word with Matt?

    THe man who gave us the word 'omnishambles'? I don't think we should get carried away.

    In any case, if that was the idea it hasn't really worked - the Grauniad is still pushing the 'Tories eat babies' line:
    'Kids Company closure: 6,000 children have lost support
    Charity’s founder blames civil servants, ministers and media for its demise, as government seeks alternative services for at risk youngsters
    ...Outside the charity’s premises in Camberwell, south London, Sharlene Reid, 27, who had been supported by Kids Company as a youngster and volunteered there herself, said the street outside had earlier seen protests by parents and children who relied on the charity’s services.

    She said: “You just drop the bomb like that and expect people to just move on? There’s people’s lives at stake here, as well as the children. What about them?

    “We have to make the government hear us. We were protesting. It was not planned, we all came here because they said it was shutting down, come and collect your things. My friend WhatsApped me this morning and I said, ‘it’s got that bad?’
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/05/kids-company-closure-6000-children-have-lost-support
    The Guardian is not a serious newspaper. It decides its opinions regardless of any facts, frankly. Anything a Tory government does is wrong, in its eyes.

    The one thing I still don't understand: what services exactly did this charity provide? What did it actually do? What went on at its Camberwell premises? And are there really 6000 children in South London reliant on KC?

    The "6000 kids have lost support" line could mean just that. But it's vague enough to encompass: we have a library here available to 6000 kids and if it closes they can't use it even though in fact only 38 kids actually use it or, if it closes, they can go to another library a bit further away.

    I'd assume that it is 'we've supported 6,000 kids in the last 20 years'...

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Moses_ said:



    So basically we have simply trashed a PM for absolutely no reason, no foundation, no evidence and hearsay. Why did Wiltshire police not just ask him instead of standing outside his house at a press conference and fanning a no existent fire ??

    I don't like Heath by the way but this goes way beyond this.

    Because he's dead?

    But this was the point I made at the outset: because the accusation of paedophilia is so toxic, and the belief that there is 'no smoke without fire' there is a very strong case of anonymity being preserved until, at least, court is reached.

    What Wiltshire police did was disgraceful.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    Australia made it to 56-1 in the Botham test, then lost 5-12 after Willis switched ends.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63291.html
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,027
    edited August 2015
    Miss Plato, for some reason that reminds me of Doctor Evil:
    One BILLION children!

    Edited extra bit: good cricket comment from the BBC livefeed:
    "Alex Norton: Are they... are they parodying us? It's method sledging."
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    isamisam Posts: 41,037
    edited August 2015
    ydoethur said:

    Boycott now saying that this is the worst batting he has ever seen from an Australian side in 50 years of watching cricket.

    Hard to imagine that it's wrong - when have Australia ever collapsed like this in England? At least they made it to about 30 before the procession began at Headingley in 1981.

    Weren't they about 70-1?

    Edit 56-1
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    If Kids Company was providing all these services, what on earth was Southwark council doing? They're supposed to be the organisation providing services in that area.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,026
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Who'd back Australia at any price now?

    Well they are 5.6 on Betfair.

    I've laid the bejeesus out of them, see downthread.
    Wouldn't you have been better backing England?
    Probably :D
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,536
    Damning stat of the day: Mitchell Johnson has faced more balls than all Australia's top 3 put together. And he's only faced 9 and has yet to score.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,037
    When was the last time three different England bowlers took a five for in successive innings?
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