Over in Spain, the Catalan separatist parties have agreed a joint ticket for the Catalan elections in September and will be standing on an explicit independence platform. This is their way of getting round the Spanish constitutional court's decision to declare the proposed independence election last November illegal. If the joint ticket wins it will take it as a mandate to declare independence. That's a pretty big deal.
Have they asked Angela Merkel's permission ?
Bit of a pointless gesture if they haven't.
It'll ramp things up, but after the treatment Greece has had I am not sure many Catalans are going to believe assurances that they will be welcomed into the European family with open arms - especially as the Commission has made clear on repeated occasions that any part of a member state that secedes from that member state puts itself outside the EU.
I was also thinking of the impact of budgets, how does a Eurozone state split unless it has a clear cut agreement ith the rest of the Euozone on how to manage its debts and budget ? What with Spain being one of the Euro weak links atm I can't imagine the Catalan initiative being that welcome.
As an aside; Who'd have thought we'd see another 'Thatcher government' in any of our lifetimes? All the nasty little prejudices that made them pariahs all these years are back with a vengiance.
It's 1983 all over again. An enfeebled Labour party destroyed from within have allowed the Wooden Horse of Consevatism back. How Steve Hilton fooled us all....
Other replies have been better than I could have managed, all is left is for me to say
ha ha ha you really don;t get it do you. Good luck ever winning again if you lot think Corbyn or anything in that direction is in any way going to appeal to ordinary people.
Ordinary people who have to cram onto a bus because £50K isn't enough for unionised tube drivers to work nights. Ordinary people who having worked all their life don't want the taxman to stop their children inheriting the family home. Ordinary people who don't think it's unreasonable for doctors on £100K+ to be available outside of "working hours".
Ha ha ha
The ordinary people you seem to be referring to live in London, where Labour's vote actually went up last time. Outside London ordinary people do not have problems with tube drivers or inheritance tax.
" ordinary people do not have problems with tube drivers or inheritance tax."
There you go again roping everyone into "it's what I think so everyone else does as well" . You consistently do this with no evidence as do all left leaning commentators. It's a trait.
it's not black an white and they have other views on inheritance as they do for tube drivers as they just see them as the unions. Meanwhile commuters don't all live in London. They commute hundreds of miles daily so they certainly have an interest. Just stand on a commuter train and listen.
It's just a statement of fact that ordinary people outside London do not have problems with IHT. As we know, the government's changes help just 6% of the population. Point taken on tube drivers - I don't live in London and they do affect me when I go down to our office. It is the case, though, that they are not in any way connected with Labour and that the government's changes to strike laws would have had no effect on the most recent action.
I think we are all a little guilty of projection, don't you?
Please don't play Guess Who or even draw up a shortlist of possible candidates. The risk of libel is far too high.
One assumes that the paper are suggesting it's someone still alive yet refusing to name them?
Looking at what happened to Lord McAlpine that's a very dangerous path down which to tread - if the paper has sufficient evidence they should publish the name and pass their files to the police.
It says at the bottom that they did not respond to a request for comment. A bit strange to put that if they were dead.
It also says they're still a serving MP. I don't think we have any literal zombies in the Commons though it may seem like it at times.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I suppose I've gone from wait and see to probably out.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I suppose I've gone from wait and see to probably out.
The fun bit is watching the left squirm over the EU. Miliband has been very quiet since the Greeks got their shellacking! The surprise here of course is that they are surprised - sound money has always been at the heart of the project.
Over in Spain, the Catalan separatist parties have agreed a joint ticket for the Catalan elections in September and will be standing on an explicit independence platform. This is their way of getting round the Spanish constitutional court's decision to declare the proposed independence election last November illegal. If the joint ticket wins it will take it as a mandate to declare independence. That's a pretty big deal.
Have they asked Angela Merkel's permission ?
Bit of a pointless gesture if they haven't.
It'll ramp things up, but after the treatment Greece has had I am not sure many Catalans are going to believe assurances that they will be welcomed into the European family with open arms - especially as the Commission has made clear on repeated occasions that any part of a member state that secedes from that member state puts itself outside the EU.
I was also thinking of the impact of budgets, how does a Eurozone state split unless it has a clear cut agreement ith the rest of the Euozone on how to manage its debts and budget ? What with Spain being one of the Euro weak links atm I can't imagine the Catalan initiative being that welcome.
The whole idea of UDI is utterly absurd. Spain is Catalonia's biggest market, just as the rUK is Scotland's. Businesses would flee - and there'd also be major challenges collecting tax from individuals and those businesses that do stay. How would it be done and under what law?
Whilst I wouldn't expect Corbyn to win the leadership contest, if the unthinkable does happen then I don't think it would be as disastrous for labour as many tories think. Why do I say this i hear you say? Well once we get into the global sovereign debt crisis from the start of October, I expect that politics will increasingly polarise into hard left and hard right positrons. We've already seen that with Greece and it always happens when economic depressions hit. Look at 1933 and how the social climate of the time allowed Hitler, Mao et al to power. Corbyn would be ideal to profit from that polarisation just as Farage is ideally situated to pick up support on the right.
.
Whilst there is no doubt issues over the EU financial model whatever date you predict it will happen is v unlikely to occur, given your track record...
The get out is he doesn't specify October 2015 - it no doubt could just as likely be October 2115!
start of October this year is the turn date that I'm sticking to. When interest rates start RISING globally on sovereign government debt we'll see soon enough what the global economy is made of or not. And people like you will be what will drive the trend, being insanely optimistic that interest rates will remain on the floor for eternity at the moment. We've had enough economic history to see that nothing is eternal in economics just as is the case with life in general.
Can anyone suggest some kind of wager that hunchman and I could have regarding the coming global sovereign debt crisis?
Sterling price of a barrel of Brent being below £30 between now and end-of CY2016...?
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I'd watch out if I were you, Nicola might send a reeducation squad round to persuade you otherwise
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I suppose I've gone from wait and see to probably out.
The fun bit is watching the left squirm over the EU. Miliband has been very quiet since the Greeks got their shellacking! The surprise here of course is that they are surprised - sound money has always been at the heart of the project.
If kippers want an out they might be better making common cause with those on the left to secure their votes rather than laughing at their discomfort.
Over in Spain, the Catalan separatist parties have agreed a joint ticket for the Catalan elections in September and will be standing on an explicit independence platform. This is their way of getting round the Spanish constitutional court's decision to declare the proposed independence election last November illegal. If the joint ticket wins it will take it as a mandate to declare independence. That's a pretty big deal.
Have they asked Angela Merkel's permission ?
Bit of a pointless gesture if they haven't.
It'll ramp things up, but after the treatment Greece has had I am not sure many Catalans are going to believe assurances that they will be welcomed into the European family with open arms - especially as the Commission has made clear on repeated occasions that any part of a member state that secedes from that member state puts itself outside the EU.
I was also thinking of the impact of budgets, how does a Eurozone state split unless it has a clear cut agreement ith the rest of the Euozone on how to manage its debts and budget ? What with Spain being one of the Euro weak links atm I can't imagine the Catalan initiative being that welcome.
The whole idea of UDI is utterly absurd. Spain is Catalonia's biggest market, just as the rUK is Scotland's. Businesses would flee - and there'd also be major challenges collecting tax from individuals and those businesses that do stay. How would it be done and under what law?
Again depending on the GE result the likeliest outcome is a strengthening of the Federal arrangement for Catalonia. Spain is strongly pro-EU and the logic of the euro is, eventually, fiscal transfer between regions. The separatists are going against this trend.
As an aside; Who'd have thought we'd see another 'Thatcher government' in any of our lifetimes? All the nasty little prejudices that made them pariahs all these years are back with a vengiance.
It's 1983 all over again. An enfeebled Labour party destroyed from within have allowed the Wooden Horse of Consevatism back. How Steve Hilton fooled us all....
Other replies have been better than I could have managed, all is left is for me to say
ha ha ha you really don;t get it do you. Good luck ever winning again if you lot think Corbyn or anything in that direction is in any way going to appeal to ordinary people.
Ordinary people who have to cram onto a bus because £50K isn't enough for unionised tube drivers to work nights. Ordinary people who having worked all their life don't want the taxman to stop their children inheriting the family home. Ordinary people who don't think it's unreasonable for doctors on £100K+ to be available outside of "working hours".
Ha ha ha
The ordinary people you seem to be referring to live in London, where Labour's vote actually went up last time. Outside London ordinary people do not have problems with tube drivers or inheritance tax.
" ordinary people do not have problems with tube drivers or inheritance tax."
There you go again roping everyone into "it's what I think so everyone else does as well" . You consistently do this with no evidence as do all left leaning commentators. It's a trait.
it's not black an white and they have other views on inheritance as they do for tube drivers as they just see them as the unions. Meanwhile commuters don't all live in London. They commute hundreds of miles daily so they certainly have an interest. Just stand on a commuter train and listen.
It's just a statement of fact that ordinary people outside London do not have problems with IHT. As we know, the government's changes help just 6% of the population. Point taken on tube drivers - I don't live in London and they do affect me when I go down to our office. It is the case, though, that they are not in any way connected with Labour and that the government's changes to strike laws would have had no effect on the most recent action.
I think we are all a little guilty of projection, don't you?
It is a shame that although Johnson has started to deal with it he hasn't grasped the hornet's nest and introduced fully driverless trains. There are no reasons to have strikes on a modern underground as there are no reasons to have drivers. Problem solved.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I suppose I've gone from wait and see to probably out.
The fun bit is watching the left squirm over the EU. Miliband has been very quiet since the Greeks got their shellacking! The surprise here of course is that they are surprised - sound money has always been at the heart of the project.
If kippers want an out they might be better making common cause with those on the left to secure their votes rather than laughing at their discomfort.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I'd watch out if I were you, Nicola might send a reeducation squad round to persuade you otherwise
It'll be interesting hearing her explain why it is so vital Scotland remains a part of the EU while leaving the UK.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I suppose I've gone from wait and see to probably out.
The fun bit is watching the left squirm over the EU. Miliband has been very quiet since the Greeks got their shellacking! The surprise here of course is that they are surprised - sound money has always been at the heart of the project.
If kippers want an out they might be better making common cause with those on the left to secure their votes rather than laughing at their discomfort.
Indeed but it won't happen - the out campaign is seemingly making nil preparations for the big question and are likley to lose heavily, unless 'events' significantly turn in their favour.
Over in Spain, the Catalan separatist parties have agreed a joint ticket for the Catalan elections in September and will be standing on an explicit independence platform. This is their way of getting round the Spanish constitutional court's decision to declare the proposed independence election last November illegal. If the joint ticket wins it will take it as a mandate to declare independence. That's a pretty big deal.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I suppose I've gone from wait and see to probably out.
The fun bit is watching the left squirm over the EU. Miliband has been very quiet since the Greeks got their shellacking! The surprise here of course is that they are surprised - sound money has always been at the heart of the project.
If kippers want an out they might be better making common cause with those on the left to secure their votes rather than laughing at their discomfort.
Can you blame them? It is a sight to behold.
Except it's the faultline that runs through the Left they should be looking at, the metroplitan types are usually pro EU and big gainers from it, the traditional WWC are mostly losers from the EU and globalisation.
If you want to have a laugh make the split and watch the Blairs and Mandelsons squirm.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I suppose I've gone from wait and see to probably out.
The fun bit is watching the left squirm over the EU. Miliband has been very quiet since the Greeks got their shellacking! The surprise here of course is that they are surprised - sound money has always been at the heart of the project.
If kippers want an out they might be better making common cause with those on the left to secure their votes rather than laughing at their discomfort.
Indeed but it won't happen - the out campaign is seemingly making nil preparations for the big question and are likley to lose heavily, unless 'events' significantly turn in their favour.
There is an out campaign?
So far all I seem to see is some hand-wringing and UKIP. The last thing UKIP want is to actually have an Out campaign as that may stop their gravy train - hence why there is zero effort being put into winning the referendum (and zero effort put into ensuring one happened).
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
TUD, it is just half witted Tories making up conspiracy theories. Fit them better to wonder why they have had to cancel two of their pet policy votes just because the SNP said BOO.
Over in Spain, the Catalan separatist parties have agreed a joint ticket for the Catalan elections in September and will be standing on an explicit independence platform. This is their way of getting round the Spanish constitutional court's decision to declare the proposed independence election last November illegal. If the joint ticket wins it will take it as a mandate to declare independence. That's a pretty big deal.
Have they asked Angela Merkel's permission ?
Bit of a pointless gesture if they haven't.
It'll ramp things up, but after the treatment Greece has had I am not sure many Catalans are going to believe assurances that they will be welcomed into the European family with open arms - especially as the Commission has made clear on repeated occasions that any part of a member state that secedes from that member state puts itself outside the EU.
I was also thinking of the impact of budgets, how does a Eurozone state split unless it has a clear cut agreement ith the rest of the Euozone on how to manage its debts and budget ? What with Spain being one of the Euro weak links atm I can't imagine the Catalan initiative being that welcome.
The whole idea of UDI is utterly absurd. Spain is Catalonia's biggest market, just as the rUK is Scotland's. Businesses would flee - and there'd also be major challenges collecting tax from individuals and those businesses that do stay. How would it be done and under what law?
Again depending on the GE result the likeliest outcome is a strengthening of the Federal arrangement for Catalonia. Spain is strongly pro-EU and the logic of the euro is, eventually, fiscal transfer between regions. The separatists are going against this trend.
The solution for Catalonia is to give it what the Basques have. PP are just as much to blame as the Catalan separatists for the current mess. If they lose power in December, it will be an immense help to sorting the problem out. I can't see Spain ever being fully federal - many parts of the country would not be interested.
Over in Spain, the Catalan separatist parties have agreed a joint ticket for the Catalan elections in September and will be standing on an explicit independence platform. This is their way of getting round the Spanish constitutional court's decision to declare the proposed independence election last November illegal. If the joint ticket wins it will take it as a mandate to declare independence. That's a pretty big deal.
The latest polls on independence in Spain I believe saw the No vote back in the lead. Obviously that may change but I've a suspicion that events in Greece along with a visibly strengthening Spanish economy could damage Podemos nationally and the separatists generally. The interesting group is Ciudadanos who could well pay a pivotal role in coalition after the GE with either PSOE or even PP.
Citizens backed the PP in most of the mayoral run offs after the recent Spanish local elections. My money is on a PP/Citizens coalition post Spanish general election. And Citizens is very strong in Catalonia- it may even beat the combined nationalist ticket there as PP and PSOE vote tactically.
As an aside; Who'd have thought we'd see another 'Thatcher government' in any of our lifetimes? All the nasty little prejudices that made them pariahs all these years are back with a vengiance.
It's 1983 all over again. An enfeebled Labour party destroyed from within have allowed the Wooden Horse of Consevatism back. How Steve Hilton fooled us all....
Other replies have been better than I could have managed, all is left is for me to say
ha ha ha... Ha ha ha
The ordinary people you seem to be referring to live in London, where Labour's vote actually went up last time. Outside London ordinary people do not have problems with tube drivers or inheritance tax.
" ordinary people do not have problems with tube drivers or inheritance tax."
There you go again roping everyone into "it's what I think so everyone else does as well" . You consistently do this with no evidence as do all left leaning commentators. It's a trait.
it's not black an white and they have other views on inheritance as they do for tube drivers as they just see them as the unions. Meanwhile commuters don't all live in London. They commute hundreds of miles daily so they certainly have an interest. Just stand on a commuter train and listen.
SO - it is aspiration which drives popular support of IHT allowance increasing. Many people think or want it to apply to them. It is wonderful politics, as well as being inherently fair - why should those who have worked hard and paid taxes not be able to pass this on as a tax free gift to their nominated.
One of my gripes, given the parlous state of our national finances, is that we allow charities to claim back the taxes paid by donors on gifts - gift aid - presumably without ever checking whether those who sign up for gift aid have paid that amount of tax in the previous year. Temporary gift aid holiday would be high on my agenda for this parliament.
Similarly, those outside of London were affected by recent strikes - FGW caused the SW and South of Wales rather a lot of disruption last week. The issues - train replacement. Wanting to keep buffet cars, whilst these in effect are just large trolleys themselves. And wanting the guarantee of a conductor on each train. Apparently the lack of a cast iron guarantee makes passenger safety worse than the slam door trains which new trains are replacing...
Not heard anyone in the South support a strike since the Firemen - and then it was only a few. In the fight between management, workers and consumers, consumers have won, and the majority, it seems, take the side of management before they take the side of workers on industrial disputes.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I'd watch out if I were you, Nicola might send a reeducation squad round to persuade you otherwise
It'll be interesting hearing her explain why it is so vital Scotland remains a part of the EU while leaving the UK.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I'd watch out if I were you, Nicola might send a reeducation squad round to persuade you otherwise
It'll be interesting hearing her explain why it is so vital Scotland remains a part of the EU while leaving the UK.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I'd watch out if I were you, Nicola might send a reeducation squad round to persuade you otherwise
It'll be interesting hearing her explain why it is so vital Scotland remains a part of the EU while leaving the UK.
The previous PM and Chancellor were both Scottish.
I can see the romantic appeal of an independent Scotland. But I'd suggest recent events show that a small nation within the EU is not a place of freedom. It baffles me how some want to leave the UK but remain in the EU.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I'd watch out if I were you, Nicola might send a reeducation squad round to persuade you otherwise
It'll be interesting hearing her explain why it is so vital Scotland remains a part of the EU while leaving the UK.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I'd watch out if I were you, Nicola might send a reeducation squad round to persuade you otherwise
It'll be interesting hearing her explain why it is so vital Scotland remains a part of the EU while leaving the UK.
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I'd watch out if I were you, Nicola might send a reeducation squad round to persuade you otherwise
It'll be interesting hearing her explain why it is so vital Scotland remains a part of the EU while leaving the UK.
Very simple , they would be in EU as a nation and not as slaves
Try telling that to Greece, Hahahahahahah!!!!!!
Malcom's very ambition is to be like Greece, don't rock his fragile ego.
Philip, you are a silly Billy. I would for sure take some of the sunshine and their feta cheese is rather nice, but only silly billies could ever imagine Scotland ending up like Greece, even though the UK are trying to take us there.
PS , nothing fragile about my Ego, as they say "Simply the Best".
On topic, if one is going to concoct an electoral conspiracy theory, wouldn't it be better to attach it to some logic? Why would SNP voters vote tactically to make the Scotland result conform more closely to that of the rUK, particularly as their vote has a 10th of the weight of an English one?
As it happens I think recent polling shows SNP voters as most EUsceptic, so I the In campaign will have to concentrate on those who recently voted for dependency.
out of interest divvie which way are you thinking of voting ?
Barroso's antics pre referendum certainly took the shine off the EU for me. The Greek tragedy/farce has turned me from an 'In' to a 'wait and see'.
I'd watch out if I were you, Nicola might send a reeducation squad round to persuade you otherwise
All Nicola needs to do is to type @Theuniondivvie into her ipad and a top up of the SNP's serum will be delivered to his water supply and his immediate neighbours in case any of them are not on message !!
Only question she answered directly was if you became leader would you offer Corbyn a cabinet post if he won the first round of voting.
"No"
As for all the other answers well she would not oppose any Tory policies as far as I could ascertain.
She would vote for welfare cuts because in Cardiff two pensioners from the golden generation said the welfare state was too generous to non workers and wouldnt vote Lab while they were the party of benefits.
Instead of telling them they were actually on the most generous benefits she let it define her politics .
Thankfully Liz will come last in the forthcoming leadership election.
Only question she answered directly was if you became leader would you offer Corbyn a cabinet post if he won the first round of voting.
"No"
As for all the other answers well she would not oppose any Tory policies as far as I could ascertain.
She would vote for welfare cuts because in Cardiff two pensioners from the golden generation said the welfare state was too generous to non workers and wouldnt vote Lab while they were the party of benefits.
Instead of telling them they were actually on the most generous benefits she let it define her politics .
Thankfully Liz will come last in the forthcoming leadership election.
BJO - whether it is the reality or not, the perception is that Labour are the party of benefits. With Burnham, Cooper and Corbyn, this perception will continue.
Its not necessarily entirely fair, but politics rarely is. Labour expanded the benefit/tax credit base massively; the last election was about their unsuitability to handle the economy (i.e. competance, public spending and financial regulation), if one of those three get in, the next election will be about their unsuitability to judge popular mood in the handling of welfare.
At this rate, Osborne is only a few months away from winning the 2020 election.
Yvette Cooper not coming across well on the Sunday Politics.
She is positioning herself to the left of Burnham. She is looking for Corbyn second preferences but this will only work if she can lead him on first prefs. Not sure if she will.
Over in Spain, the Catalan separatist parties have agreed a joint ticket for the Catalan elections in September and will be standing on an explicit independence platform. This is their way of getting round the Spanish constitutional court's decision to declare the proposed independence election last November illegal. If the joint ticket wins it will take it as a mandate to declare independence. That's a pretty big deal.
The latest polls on independence in Spain I believe saw the No vote back in the lead. Obviously that may change but I've a suspicion that events in Greece along with a visibly strengthening Spanish economy could damage Podemos nationally and the separatists generally. The interesting group is Ciudadanos who could well pay a pivotal role in coalition after the GE with either PSOE or even PP.
Citizens backed the PP in most of the mayoral run offs after the recent Spanish local elections. My money is on a PP/Citizens coalition post Spanish general election. And Citizens is very strong in Catalonia- it may even beat the combined nationalist ticket there as PP and PSOE vote tactically.
Only question she answered directly was if you became leader would you offer Corbyn a cabinet post if he won the first round of voting.
"No"
As for all the other answers well she would not oppose any Tory policies as far as I could ascertain.
She would vote for welfare cuts because in Cardiff two pensioners from the golden generation said the welfare state was too generous to non workers and wouldnt vote Lab while they were the party of benefits.
Instead of telling them they were actually on the most generous benefits she let it define her politics .
Thankfully Liz will come last in the forthcoming leadership election.
As will Labour in the next GE if they're not careful.
Yvette Cooper not coming across well on the Sunday Politics.
She is positioning herself to the left of Burnham. She is looking for Corbyn second preferences but this will only work if she can lead him on first prefs. Not sure if she will.
And Burnham is sounding sensible to me - though it's unlikely that I'd ever vote Labour. Alistair Darling is a forgotten man and Burnham is right to point out that Labour's response to the crash - and his plans for going forward from 2010 (I think) - weren't that different to what Osborne did.
For some bizarre reason Labour decided to pretend that the deficit didn't matter and attacked the government for dealing with it. And Yvette is just trotting out the line that the Tories are blaming Labour for the banking crisis. I've never heard a Tory say that. What has been pointed out is that Labour believed that they had abolished boom and bust.
Only question she answered directly was if you became leader would you offer Corbyn a cabinet post if he won the first round of voting.
"No"
As for all the other answers well she would not oppose any Tory policies as far as I could ascertain.
She would vote for welfare cuts because in Cardiff two pensioners from the golden generation said the welfare state was too generous to non workers and wouldnt vote Lab while they were the party of benefits.
Instead of telling them they were actually on the most generous benefits she let it define her politics .
Thankfully Liz will come last in the forthcoming leadership election.'
Great stuff for activists but of course completely divorced from real voters, every poll indicates that Labour's welfare handouts for all is very unpopular.
Why is it controversial, that you shouldnt have a third child if you cant afford it? (by 'shouldn't', ie. it wont be facilitated by tax credits, not that you should be legally prevented).
Dont people who dont get tax credits make that decision all the time?
As if Labour supports will vote for someone who uses the phrase 'how would you fund that?'
LOL. Labour members could do well to remember that the votes they need are not those who just voted Labour under Ed The Great, rather a significant number that just voted Conservative. "How would you fund that?" Is exactly what that group would like to know.
If we believe some PB Tories on here Labour being 'credible' is agreeing with every policy, belief, and idea from the Conservative party.
If you think making your numbers add up is a belief and idea from the Conservatives, oblivion welcomes you. You see that man over there banging is head into a wall? It's Peter Mandelson's ghost.
If we believe some PB Tories on here Labour being 'credible' is agreeing with every policy, belief, and idea from the Conservative party.
If you think making your numbers add up is a belief and idea from the Conservatives, oblivion welcomes you. You see that man over there banging is head into a wall? It's Peter Mandelson's ghost.
Well I don't believe that, that's your own assumption.
Corbyn really is deluded if he thinks he can dramatically increase turnout among 18-24 year olds. Even if he did, chances are he'd lose a big chunk of Labour's vote in older age groups.
They managed not to win the argument last September, and so remain part of the Union. However, they have chosen to conduct their membership of the Union by means of aggression and constitutional offensiveness, like the bullies they were during the referendum campaign, and like the sore losers they have been ever since.
If we believe some PB Tories on here Labour being 'credible' is agreeing with every policy, belief, and idea from the Conservative party.
If you think making your numbers add up is a belief and idea from the Conservatives, oblivion welcomes you. You see that man over there banging is head into a wall? It's Peter Mandelson's ghost.
Well I don't believe that, that's your own assumption.
But isnt only my assumption, anytime anyone points out that if you want XYZ you will need to do ABC, there is a collective shout of shame, and such people are labelled as Tories.
Every government has to make its sums add up, either in the short term, or medium term.
On economic and govt financial policy there is really too wide a gap between the hard left and the Blairites. If Corbyn wins the Blairites (which have the ideas) will either switch off or leave. if Kendall wins then the hard left (which has the union money) will certainly leave.
This then leaves Cooper and Burnham as choices which patch things over and just about hold the party together. For either of these most Blairites will just switch off and the union money will briefly continue until/unless the govt reforms really do kick in.
I don't live in London but the driverless trains issue really is simple. Get on with it.
In the early nineties the union, of which I was a rep, tried to keep people using the typing pool. No redundancies here was the aim. Very noble and pointless as PCs were clearly the future. Like sticking your finger into a dyke (I could rephrase that but you know what I mean). I said we should concentrate on retraining.
Copenhagen (that socialist paradise) seem to manage driverless trains without H&S issues; probably because there aren't any.
Wishful thinking! Maybe we need to give them a few more bangs on the head! Having laid the draw all day on Thursday I'm now in the somewhat unusual position of wanting a declaration before lunch.
I don't live in London but the driverless trains issue really is simple. Get on with it.
In the early nineties the union, of which I was a rep, tried to keep people using the typing pool. No redundancies here was the aim. Very noble and pointless as PCs were clearly the future. Like sticking your finger into a dyke (I could rephrase that but you know what I mean). I said we should concentrate on retraining.
Copenhagen (that socialist paradise) seem to manage driverless trains without H&S issues; probably because there aren't any.
A local labour PPC used her position as a councillor to put forward a motion against driverless trains, a motion of course sponsored by the rail unions. The fact that the government has now 'paused' the electrification of the lines she was referring to, she has actually got her way. We are all destined to carry on using those old 'pacer train' carriages, the chances of investing the necessary technology has disappeared as well.
If we believe some PB Tories on here Labour being 'credible' is agreeing with every policy, belief, and idea from the Conservative party.
No. But it is having a credible, logical, well-argued alternative to the Conservatives.
It looks like that bus ain't coming along any time soon for Labour.
There is certainly an argument for a higher tax/higher spending state. It's just that Labour aren't yet making it - I don't know why, there are always people tweeting that they wouldn't mind paying higher taxes.
If we believe some PB Tories on here Labour being 'credible' is agreeing with every policy, belief, and idea from the Conservative party.
No. But it is having a credible, logical, well-argued alternative to the Conservatives.
It looks like that bus ain't coming along any time soon for Labour.
There is certainly an argument for a higher tax/higher spending state. It's just that Labour aren't yet making it - I don't know why, there are always people tweeting that they wouldn't mind paying higher taxes.
They usually dont mind other people paying higher taxes. Look at Charlotte Church. She made a lot of money very quickly. So she paid the top rate of tax on all that earned income? Of course not. An accountant would have put it into a vehicle that slowly releases the income over time to minimise tax. I understand she is a director of four limited companies.
Nothing is wrong with what she has done. But she is at the vanguard of "pay more tax", when the reality is she pays as little as possible. If she got paid by PAYE in the way every salaried person does she would break down and cry at the amount of tax she paid.
If we believe some PB Tories on here Labour being 'credible' is agreeing with every policy, belief, and idea from the Conservative party.
If you think making your numbers add up is a belief and idea from the Conservatives, oblivion welcomes you. You see that man over there banging is head into a wall? It's Peter Mandelson's ghost.
Well I don't believe that, that's your own assumption.
But isnt only my assumption, anytime anyone points out that if you want XYZ you will need to do ABC, there is a collective shout of shame, and such people are labelled as Tories.
Every government has to make its sums add up, either in the short term, or medium term.
You appear to have created your own strawman argument to argue against, as you're arguing against you're own assumption, and now you've gone on into an elaboration as to why you made a wrong assumption in the first place. Weird. It's even more strange that you continue with pursuing an incorrect assumption in regard to your last sentence. Incidentally, I actually agree with a policy of cuts/austerity, but disagree with govt distribution of cuts and cuts:tax ratio.
If you're referring to Kendall (in regard to your 'collective shame comment), Kendall is (unfairly IMO) called a 'Tory', because she appears to sign up for every single policy espoused by the Conservative party. That is a problem of her own making, and an illustration of her inability to achieve the triangulation strategy, carried by Blair, and Mandelson, funnily enough. Blair/Mandelson years, of whose ghost you refer to, did not win elections by conceding every point of ground on economic and social policy to the Conservatives.
"Absolutely agree,you need Labour ideas with Labour led by Corbyn."
As expected - I still have hopes for Labour, so I hope they elect Liz. You, you naughty tinker, wish only ill, so you join forces with the left-leaning Labourites.
If we believe some PB Tories on here Labour being 'credible' is agreeing with every policy, belief, and idea from the Conservative party.
If you think making your numbers add up is a belief and idea from the Conservatives, oblivion welcomes you. You see that man over there banging is head into a wall? It's Peter Mandelson's ghost.
Well I don't believe that, that's your own assumption.
But isnt only my assumption, anytime anyone points out that if you want XYZ you will need to do ABC, there is a collective shout of shame, and such people are labelled as Tories.
Every government has to make its sums add up, either in the short term, or medium term.
You appear to have created your own strawman argument to argue against, as you're arguing against you're own assumption, and now you've gone on into an elaboration as to why you made a wrong assumption in the first place. Weird. It's even more strange that you continue with pursuing an incorrect assumption in regard to your last sentence. Incidentally, I actually agree with a policy of cuts/austerity, but disagree with govt distribution of cuts and cuts:tax ratio.
If you're referring to Kendall (in regard to your 'collective shame comment), Kendall is (unfairly IMO) called a 'Tory', because she appears to sign up for every single policy espoused by the Conservative party. That is a problem of her own making, and an illustration of her inability to achieve the triangulation strategy, carried by Blair, and Mandelson, funnily enough. Blair/Mandelson years, of whose ghost you refer to, did not win elections by conceding every point of ground on economic and social policy to the Conservatives.
Actually I was thinking more of Harman who suggested that people shouldnt have children they cant afford.
If we believe some PB Tories on here Labour being 'credible' is agreeing with every policy, belief, and idea from the Conservative party.
No. But it is having a credible, logical, well-argued alternative to the Conservatives.
It looks like that bus ain't coming along any time soon for Labour.
There is certainly an argument for a higher tax/higher spending state. It's just that Labour aren't yet making it - I don't know why, there are always people tweeting that they wouldn't mind paying higher taxes.
Quite. This is the argument I and many others expected from Ed running up to the election. Instead we got the idea that milk and honey for 60 million people could be paid for only by bankers and non-doms. It wasn't the concept of a bigger state that they lost the election over, it was the fact that their numbers didn't come close to adding up.
If we believe some PB Tories on here Labour being 'credible' is agreeing with every policy, belief, and idea from the Conservative party.
If you think making your numbers add up is a belief and idea from the Conservatives, oblivion welcomes you. You see that man over there banging is head into a wall? It's Peter Mandelson's ghost.
Well I don't believe that, that's your own assumption.
But isnt only my assumption, anytime anyone points out that if you want XYZ you will need to do ABC, there is a collective shout of shame, and such people are labelled as Tories.
Every government has to make its sums add up, either in the short term, or medium term.
You appear to have created your own strawman argument to argue against, as you're arguing against you're own assumption, and now you've gone on into an elaboration as to why you made a wrong assumption in the first place. Weird. It's even more strange that you continue with pursuing an incorrect assumption in regard to your last sentence. Incidentally, I actually agree with a policy of cuts/austerity, but disagree with govt distribution of cuts and cuts:tax ratio.
If you're referring to Kendall (in regard to your 'collective shame comment), Kendall is (unfairly IMO) called a 'Tory', because she appears to sign up for every single policy espoused by the Conservative party. That is a problem of her own making, and an illustration of her inability to achieve the triangulation strategy, carried by Blair, and Mandelson, funnily enough. Blair/Mandelson years, of whose ghost you refer to, did not win elections by conceding every point of ground on economic and social policy to the Conservatives.
Actually I was thinking more of Harman who suggested that people shouldnt have children they cant afford.
Harman's argument is good in theory, but not everyone's circumstances are perfect. Some people start off being able to afford the children they have, but losing their job, etc can affect their circumstances.
As much as you try and be an internet lawyer on this subject constantly quoting one misinterpretation of the law and then another to show what happens next (before moving onto a new one) you've been shown to be wrong here. Even when it explicitly says you're wrong, you keep this internet lawyer meme nonsense up. I don't know who you think you're trying to impress?
Or how that disproves what I said. I don't think any swing voters who hadn't made their mind up will have their minds made up by a decision that explicitly shows us to be protected but an Internet Lawyer decides he knows better and we're not.
If he turns out to be right on this you are going to need some serious front to show your face again after that disgraceful rant.
The intellectual laziness in labelling Liz Kendall a Tory is exactly what is wrong with the Labour left. The comfort zone is very comfy, but it means you lose elections. That said, there's very little point in making any big calls about Labour's future until the leadership election is done and the conference season is over. One potential positive for whoever ends up in charge - unless it's Corbyn - is the increasingly hubristic Tory attitude. As in the past that will inevitably lead to over-reach.
As much as you try and be an internet lawyer on this subject constantly quoting one misinterpretation of the law and then another to show what happens next (before moving onto a new one) you've been shown to be wrong here. Even when it explicitly says you're wrong, you keep this internet lawyer meme nonsense up. I don't know who you think you're trying to impress?
Or how that disproves what I said. I don't think any swing voters who hadn't made their mind up will have their minds made up by a decision that explicitly shows us to be protected but an Internet Lawyer decides he knows better and we're not.
If he turns out to be right on this you are going to need some serious front to show your face again after that disgraceful rant.
I am sure he sees it as a passionate defence of David Cameron, aka the man who can do no wrong.
The intellectual laziness in labelling Liz Kendall a Tory is exactly what is wrong with the Labour left. The comfort zone is very comfy, but it means you lose elections. That said, there's very little point in making any big calls about Labour's future until the leadership election is done and the conference season is over. One potential positive for whoever ends up in charge - unless it's Corbyn - is the increasingly hubristic Tory attitude. As in the past that will inevitably lead to over-reach.
Kendall = Tory: I think this is a rather good article on that particular canard:
As much as you try and be an internet lawyer on this subject constantly quoting one misinterpretation of the law and then another to show what happens next (before moving onto a new one) you've been shown to be wrong here. Even when it explicitly says you're wrong, you keep this internet lawyer meme nonsense up. I don't know who you think you're trying to impress?
Or how that disproves what I said. I don't think any swing voters who hadn't made their mind up will have their minds made up by a decision that explicitly shows us to be protected but an Internet Lawyer decides he knows better and we're not.
If he turns out to be right on this you are going to need some serious front to show your face again after that disgraceful rant.
If we believe some PB Tories on here Labour being 'credible' is agreeing with every policy, belief, and idea from the Conservative party.
If you think making your numbers add up is a belief and idea from the Conservatives, oblivion welcomes you. You see that man over there banging is head into a wall? It's Peter Mandelson's ghost.
Well I don't believe that, that's your own assumption.
But isnt only my assumption, anytime anyone points out that if you want XYZ you will need to do ABC, there is a collective shout of shame, and such people are labelled as Tories.
Every government has to make its sums add up, either in the short term, or medium term.
You appear to have created your own strawman argument to argue against, as you're arguing against you're own assumption, and now you've gone on into an elaboration as to why you made a wrong assumption in the first place. Weird. It's even more strange that you continue with pursuing an incorrect assumption in regard to your last sentence. Incidentally, I actually agree with a policy of cuts/austerity, but disagree with govt distribution of cuts and cuts:tax ratio.
If you're referring to Kendall (in regard to your 'collective shame comment), Kendall is (unfairly IMO) called a 'Tory', because she appears to sign up for every single policy espoused by the Conservative party. That is a problem of her own making, and an illustration of her inability to achieve the triangulation strategy, carried by Blair, and Mandelson, funnily enough. Blair/Mandelson years, of whose ghost you refer to, did not win elections by conceding every point of ground on economic and social policy to the Conservatives.
Actually I was thinking more of Harman who suggested that people shouldnt have children they cant afford.
Harman's argument is good in theory, but not everyone's circumstances are perfect. Some people start off being able to afford the children they have, but losing their job, etc can affect their circumstances.
What most people able to have children do is also think about how they would manage if one or both of them lost their job . In the past 20+ years all workers will have become familiar with people around them or in their wider families who have lost their job. That leaves us with a different view than the people becoming parents in the 1950s or 1960s. Even in the public sector there has been a loss of 1 million jobs in the past 5 years.
The intellectual laziness in labelling Liz Kendall a Tory is exactly what is wrong with the Labour left. The comfort zone is very comfy, but it means you lose elections. That said, there's very little point in making any big calls about Labour's future until the leadership election is done and the conference season is over. One potential positive for whoever ends up in charge - unless it's Corbyn - is the increasingly hubristic Tory attitude. As in the past that will inevitably lead to over-reach.
Labour (except LK) still have not understood the implications of the full impact of globalisation. They are still acting and thinking as if the UK operates in isolation or perhaps has a bit of interaction with western Europe.
When the Chinese come and buy some of our major construction companies (which they will do very soon) how will Labour react to their work methods and practices?
If Labour had more people with experience of global business, they would know that most of the serious action is taking place outside of western Europe. Public sector and charity work is not a good background to meet global competition.
The question, "how will you fund that" should be asked by all Labour supporters, but presume that most follow Brown's example in saying, "if we can't make it economically here, we will just buy it in from elsewhere." That economic theory is the road to debt and ruination.
The intellectual laziness in labelling Liz Kendall a Tory is exactly what is wrong with the Labour left. The comfort zone is very comfy, but it means you lose elections. That said, there's very little point in making any big calls about Labour's future until the leadership election is done and the conference season is over. One potential positive for whoever ends up in charge - unless it's Corbyn - is the increasingly hubristic Tory attitude. As in the past that will inevitably lead to over-reach.
Labour (except LK) still have not understood the implications of the full impact of globalisation. They are still acting and thinking as if the UK operates in isolation or perhaps has a bit of interaction with western Europe.
When the Chinese come and buy some of our major construction companies (which they will do very soon) how will Labour react to their work methods and practices?
If Labour had more people with experience of global business, they would know that most of the serious action is taking place outside of western Europe. Public sector and charity work is not a good background to meet global competition.
The question, "how will you fund that" should be asked by all Labour supporters, but presume that most follow Brown's example in saying, "if we can't make it economically here, we will just buy it in from elsewhere." That economic theory is the road to debt and ruination.
Given that any employer has to abide by local H&S and employment legislation I'd be interested in how you think that a construction company's employees will be affected by a change in ultimate ownership.
The intellectual laziness in labelling Liz Kendall a Tory is exactly what is wrong with the Labour left. The comfort zone is very comfy, but it means you lose elections. That said, there's very little point in making any big calls about Labour's future until the leadership election is done and the conference season is over. One potential positive for whoever ends up in charge - unless it's Corbyn - is the increasingly hubristic Tory attitude. As in the past that will inevitably lead to over-reach.
Labour (except LK) still have not understood the implications of the full impact of globalisation. They are still acting and thinking as if the UK operates in isolation or perhaps has a bit of interaction with western Europe. If Labour had more people with experience of global business, ....... Public sector and charity work is not a good background to meet global competition. The question, "how will you fund that" should be asked by all Labour supporters.....
As Antifrank pointed out, few Labour MPs in the new intake came from the private sector. Yet the private sector employs circa 80% of all employees. A shocking disparity.
< What most people able to have children do is also think about how they would manage if one or both of them lost their job . In the past 20+ years all workers will have become familiar with people around them or in their wider families who have lost their job. That leaves us with a different view than the people becoming parents in the 1950s or 1960s. Even in the public sector there has been a loss of 1 million jobs in the past 5 years.
Tbh I see people trying to get into a good, stable place when they have children from my family, but I don't see people thinking of every conceivable circumstance when they have kids. I don't see your average person thinking 'what if we have a flood in our house, lose all our possessions, and we both can't get jobs and lose all our savings'' or ''what if one of us dies'' everytime they have kids. If people thought of both people losing their jobs everytime they kids, tbh probably no one would have kids as I doubt you could manage at least one child with little income coming in.
I thought Burnham did well on Sunday politics and Cooper not so well. Burnham handled Neil better. Neil is a bit of a chauvinist which was a problem for Cooper. Corbyn is refreshingly clear. Kendall makes me grate my teeth.
I now think Kendall will be last and most of her 2nd preferences will transfer to Cooper. I think most of Corbyn's 2nd preferences will transfer to Burnham.
I think 1st round will be Burnham, Cooper, Corbyn, Kendall or Burnham, Corbyn, Cooper, Kendall.
2nd round will be Burnham, Cooper, Corbyn Winner will be Burnham.
I've rebalanced my book on Betfair. Luckily I got on to Corbyn at 160/1 so I'm decently green on everyone except Kendall.
Kendall is (unfairly IMO) called a 'Tory', because she appears to sign up for every single policy espoused by the Conservative party.
Not quite. She's signing up to policies espoused by the electorate.
That's your problem. Not Liz Kendall.
So private sector intervention in the public sector is a policy popular with the electorate? So Free Schools is a policy popular with the electorate, then?
It is Liz Kendall's issue if she's looking to get elected to be Labour leader, and PM of this country. That is her problem.
They managed not to win the argument last September, and so remain part of the Union. However, they have chosen to conduct their membership of the Union by means of aggression and constitutional offensiveness, like the bullies they were during the referendum campaign, and like the sore losers they have been ever since.
A classic example of why many of our so called political commentators are increasingly losing the plot and we're not even close to the EU ref when I fear many of these guys are at risk of having a nervous breakdown.
We've had the SNP now being blamed for the failure of the other parties - The best line:
"it will soon become apparent to Cameron that even the smallest Tory rebellion can prevent the Government from getting its programme through"
So David Cameron's inability to control the unruly elements of the broad Tory church is somehow Nicola Sturgeons fault ?
The intellectual laziness in labelling Liz Kendall a Tory is exactly what is wrong with the Labour left. The comfort zone is very comfy, but it means you lose elections. That said, there's very little point in making any big calls about Labour's future until the leadership election is done and the conference season is over. One potential positive for whoever ends up in charge - unless it's Corbyn - is the increasingly hubristic Tory attitude. As in the past that will inevitably lead to over-reach.
Labour (except LK) still have not understood the implications of the full impact of globalisation. They are still acting and thinking as if the UK operates in isolation or perhaps has a bit of interaction with western Europe.
When the Chinese come and buy some of our major construction companies (which they will do very soon) how will Labour react to their work methods and practices?
If Labour had more people with experience of global business, they would know that most of the serious action is taking place outside of western Europe. Public sector and charity work is not a good background to meet global competition.
The question, "how will you fund that" should be asked by all Labour supporters, but presume that most follow Brown's example in saying, "if we can't make it economically here, we will just buy it in from elsewhere." That economic theory is the road to debt and ruination.
Given that any employer has to abide by local H&S and employment legislation I'd be interested in how you think that a construction company's employees will be affected by a change in ultimate ownership.
Was not thinking of H&S and employment legislation and they will comply with those. You have to think more about organisation, benefits package, working practices etc
Comments
I think we are all a little guilty of projection, don't you?
:FATJUGS:
https://fullfact.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Scottish-Exports-png-laura-edit.png
If you want to have a laugh make the split and watch the Blairs and Mandelsons squirm.
So far all I seem to see is some hand-wringing and UKIP. The last thing UKIP want is to actually have an Out campaign as that may stop their gravy train - hence why there is zero effort being put into winning the referendum (and zero effort put into ensuring one happened).
One of my gripes, given the parlous state of our national finances, is that we allow charities to claim back the taxes paid by donors on gifts - gift aid - presumably without ever checking whether those who sign up for gift aid have paid that amount of tax in the previous year. Temporary gift aid holiday would be high on my agenda for this parliament.
Similarly, those outside of London were affected by recent strikes - FGW caused the SW and South of Wales rather a lot of disruption last week. The issues - train replacement. Wanting to keep buffet cars, whilst these in effect are just large trolleys themselves. And wanting the guarantee of a conductor on each train. Apparently the lack of a cast iron guarantee makes passenger safety worse than the slam door trains which new trains are replacing...
Not heard anyone in the South support a strike since the Firemen - and then it was only a few. In the fight between management, workers and consumers, consumers have won, and the majority, it seems, take the side of management before they take the side of workers on industrial disputes.
Good Morning Mr G – A little too much information for a Sunday me thinks
The previous PM and Chancellor were both Scottish.
I can see the romantic appeal of an independent Scotland. But I'd suggest recent events show that a small nation within the EU is not a place of freedom. It baffles me how some want to leave the UK but remain in the EU.
PS , nothing fragile about my Ego, as they say "Simply the Best".
She really does make Blair look like a Marxist.
Only question she answered directly was if you became leader would you offer Corbyn a cabinet post if he won the first round of voting.
"No"
As for all the other answers well she would not oppose any Tory policies as far as I could ascertain.
She would vote for welfare cuts because in Cardiff two pensioners from the golden generation said the welfare state was too generous to non workers and wouldnt vote Lab while they were the party of benefits.
Instead of telling them they were actually on the most generous benefits she let it define her politics .
Thankfully Liz will come last in the forthcoming leadership election.
Its not necessarily entirely fair, but politics rarely is. Labour expanded the benefit/tax credit base massively; the last election was about their unsuitability to handle the economy (i.e. competance, public spending and financial regulation), if one of those three get in, the next election will be about their unsuitability to judge popular mood in the handling of welfare.
At this rate, Osborne is only a few months away from winning the 2020 election.
For some bizarre reason Labour decided to pretend that the deficit didn't matter and attacked the government for dealing with it. And Yvette is just trotting out the line that the Tories are blaming Labour for the banking crisis. I've never heard a Tory say that. What has been pointed out is that Labour believed that they had abolished boom and bust.
But TBF she disagrees with everything in Labours manifesto
As if Labour supports will vote for someone who uses the phrase 'how would you fund that?'
She really does make Blair look like a Marxist.
Only question she answered directly was if you became leader would you offer Corbyn a cabinet post if he won the first round of voting.
"No"
As for all the other answers well she would not oppose any Tory policies as far as I could ascertain.
She would vote for welfare cuts because in Cardiff two pensioners from the golden generation said the welfare state was too generous to non workers and wouldnt vote Lab while they were the party of benefits.
Instead of telling them they were actually on the most generous benefits she let it define her politics .
Thankfully Liz will come last in the forthcoming leadership election.'
Great stuff for activists but of course completely divorced from real voters, every poll indicates that Labour's welfare handouts for all is very unpopular.
We should not be letting the Tories set the debate for the Labour leadership. We need Labour ideas and only Corbyn is prepared to do this.
Dont people who dont get tax credits make that decision all the time?
It might be a Liz is crap thread, I also talk about bikinis.
You are unmasked, Liz Kendall!
*Stands Clear*
It looks like that bus ain't coming along any time soon for Labour.
Every government has to make its sums add up, either in the short term, or medium term.
'We should not be letting the Tories set the debate for the Labour leadership. We need Labour ideas and only Corbyn is prepared to do this.'
Absolutely agree,you need Labour ideas with Labour led by Corbyn.
This then leaves Cooper and Burnham as choices which patch things over and just about hold the party together. For either of these most Blairites will just switch off and the union money will briefly continue until/unless the govt reforms really do kick in.
In the early nineties the union, of which I was a rep, tried to keep people using the typing pool. No redundancies here was the aim. Very noble and pointless as PCs were clearly the future. Like sticking your finger into a dyke (I could rephrase that but you know what I mean). I said we should concentrate on retraining.
Copenhagen (that socialist paradise) seem to manage driverless trains without H&S issues; probably because there aren't any.
Having laid the draw all day on Thursday I'm now in the somewhat unusual position of wanting a declaration before lunch.
Im sure she is very pleased.
Nothing is wrong with what she has done. But she is at the vanguard of "pay more tax", when the reality is she pays as little as possible. If she got paid by PAYE in the way every salaried person does she would break down and cry at the amount of tax she paid.
If you're referring to Kendall (in regard to your 'collective shame comment), Kendall is (unfairly IMO) called a 'Tory', because she appears to sign up for every single policy espoused by the Conservative party. That is a problem of her own making, and an illustration of her inability to achieve the triangulation strategy, carried by Blair, and Mandelson, funnily enough. Blair/Mandelson years, of whose ghost you refer to, did not win elections by conceding every point of ground on economic and social policy to the Conservatives.
"Absolutely agree,you need Labour ideas with Labour led by Corbyn."
As expected - I still have hopes for Labour, so I hope they elect Liz. You, you naughty tinker, wish only ill, so you join forces with the left-leaning Labourites.
http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/analysis/1324740-commentary-stephen-daisley-on-liz-kendall-labour-and-the-conservatives/
When the Chinese come and buy some of our major construction companies (which they will do very soon) how will Labour react to their work methods and practices?
If Labour had more people with experience of global business, they would know that most of the serious action is taking place outside of western Europe. Public sector and charity work is not a good background to meet global competition.
The question, "how will you fund that" should be asked by all Labour supporters, but presume that most follow Brown's example in saying, "if we can't make it economically here, we will just buy it in from elsewhere." That economic theory is the road to debt and ruination.
That's your problem. Not Liz Kendall.
I now think Kendall will be last and most of her 2nd preferences will transfer to Cooper. I think most of Corbyn's 2nd preferences will transfer to Burnham.
I think 1st round will be Burnham, Cooper, Corbyn, Kendall
or Burnham, Corbyn, Cooper, Kendall.
2nd round will be Burnham, Cooper, Corbyn
Winner will be Burnham.
I've rebalanced my book on Betfair. Luckily I got on to Corbyn at 160/1 so I'm decently green on everyone except Kendall.
It is Liz Kendall's issue if she's looking to get elected to be Labour leader, and PM of this country. That is her problem.
*Stands Clear*
A classic example of why many of our so called political commentators are increasingly losing the plot and we're not even close to the EU ref when I fear many of these guys are at risk of having a nervous breakdown.
We've had the SNP now being blamed for the failure of the other parties - The best line:
"it will soon become apparent to Cameron that even the smallest Tory rebellion can prevent the Government from getting its programme through"
So David Cameron's inability to control the unruly elements of the broad Tory church is somehow Nicola Sturgeons fault ?