I don't think that the Conservatives have sufficiently considered how Jeremy Corbyn being elected Labour leader would completely stuff their scaremongering about the SNP leading Labour astray.
They might have other attack lines at their disposal though.
Kendall is running for the leadership of, and in, the wrong party IMO
If you elect Corbyn she might be the right one to lead the New SDP away from the sinking ship.
Problem with that argument is Kendall is right of where Jenkins and Owen were and right of where Farron will be if he leads the LDs. Were the Tories to elect a rightwinger after Cameron there may be space for a Kendall led 'Blairite' Party to emerge if Corbyn were to be Labour leader, but not at the moment I don't think
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn would be that much of a disaster for Labour compared to their current situation. He'd probably do about the same as Michael Foot in 1983, which wouldn't be a huge decline from May 2015 given how badly they did then.
I don't think that the Conservatives have sufficiently considered how Jeremy Corbyn being elected Labour leader would completely stuff their scaremongering about the SNP leading Labour astray.
They might have other attack lines at their disposal though.
Indeed, only Corbyn could revive the 'Tartan Tories' tag in Scotland with any real feeling, even though he would be an electoral disaster south of Hadrian's Wall in Scotland he may produce a bit of a Labour revival
Kendall is running for the leadership of, and in, the wrong party IMO
If you elect Corbyn she might be the right one to lead the New SDP away from the sinking ship.
Problem with that argument is Kendall is right of where Jenkins and Owen were and right of where Farron will be if he leads the LDs. Were the Tories to elect a rightwinger after Cameron there may be space for a Kendall led 'Blairite' Party to emerge if Corbyn were to be Labour leader, but not at the moment I don't think
My leadership vote is leaning towards Cooper followed by Corbyn, Farron, Burnham, Lamb, Osborne, Boris and in last place Kendall
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn would be that much of a disaster for Labour compared to their current situation. He'd probably do about the same as Michael Foot in 1983, which wouldn't be a huge decline from May 2015 given how badly they did then.
Foot won 209 seats, Miliband 232, Kinnock 229 in 1987. Were Corbyn to match Foot's total, Labour would lose another 23 seats!
Kendall is running for the leadership of, and in, the wrong party IMO
If you elect Corbyn she might be the right one to lead the New SDP away from the sinking ship.
Problem with that argument is Kendall is right of where Jenkins and Owen were and right of where Farron will be if he leads the LDs. Were the Tories to elect a rightwinger after Cameron there may be space for a Kendall led 'Blairite' Party to emerge if Corbyn were to be Labour leader, but not at the moment I don't think
My leadership vote is leaning towards Cooper followed by Corbyn, Farron, Burnham, Lamb, Osborne, Boris and in last place Kendall
What on earth has she done to upset you so much John? She is a Labour moderniser in the Blairite tradition. I have some reservations as to whether there is any real depth to her but it is or should be an important strand of the party which until recently helped Labour win a lot of seats that look increasingly out of reach now.
If Kendall does as badly as the limited information is indicating a wing of a damaged and diminished party will die. What is left may be more unified but they will be considerably less electable.
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 3m3 minutes ago Harriet Harman tells PLP how Labour votes on second reading of Welfare Bill will be "hung around our necks" by Tories and other critics.
Kendall is running for the leadership of, and in, the wrong party IMO
If you elect Corbyn she might be the right one to lead the New SDP away from the sinking ship.
Problem with that argument is Kendall is right of where Jenkins and Owen were and right of where Farron will be if he leads the LDs. Were the Tories to elect a rightwinger after Cameron there may be space for a Kendall led 'Blairite' Party to emerge if Corbyn were to be Labour leader, but not at the moment I don't think
My leadership vote is leaning towards Cooper followed by Corbyn, Farron, Burnham, Lamb, Osborne, Boris and in last place Kendall
There's a better chance of one of the last three being PM, than one of the first three.
I don't think this is strictly true. An independence referendum or more powers/money to Scotland would still be a risk in any resulting coalition. Sure they may be more ideologically aligned but that won't stop these demands.
I don't think that the Conservatives have sufficiently considered how Jeremy Corbyn being elected Labour leader would completely stuff their scaremongering about the SNP leading Labour astray.
They might have other attack lines at their disposal though.
Kendall is running for the leadership of, and in, the wrong party IMO
If you elect Corbyn she might be the right one to lead the New SDP away from the sinking ship.
Problem with that argument is Kendall is right of where Jenkins and Owen were and right of where Farron will be if he leads the LDs. Were the Tories to elect a rightwinger after Cameron there may be space for a Kendall led 'Blairite' Party to emerge if Corbyn were to be Labour leader, but not at the moment I don't think
My leadership vote is leaning towards Cooper followed by Corbyn, Farron, Burnham, Lamb, Osborne, Boris and in last place Kendall
Indeed, it does seem some Labour supporters would rather have Cameron/Osborne than Kendall, much as some Tories would have rather had Blair than Clarke
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 3m3 minutes ago Harriet Harman tells PLP how Labour votes on second reading of Welfare Bill will be "hung around our necks" by Tories and other critics.
I get the impression that Harriet is seriously ticked off. As was her wont she was studiously loyal to Ed and where did it get the party? Going backwards and looking less electable than ever.
I think she feels the party is due a reality check and this is her way of doing it. She will effectively be retired from front line politics in a few months. If she is not going to do this now she never will.
Hmm. By raising the issue prior to the leadership result, I wonder if Harman is taking on a role like Nicias in the Peloponnesian War, and is at risk of ensuring the very thing she does not want to occur actually takes place.
I don't say this because I want Labour to fail I am just genuinely interested in what would happen. I think the British people would give him a hearing, after all, there are very few tribal voters out there with entrenched political allegiances.
Capitalism has its failings and those of us with young kids are worried with what kind of economy we'll have in 15 years time.
I don't for one minute think that Corbyn and the Labour far-left have the answers to our economic future but I'd like to see him win so he can put detailed policies forward for how he'd position Britain to compete in the global marketplace.
I'm always up for kooky and unusual ideas to be aired. After all, the outlooks of our main parties have homogenised over the past twenty years.
I don't say this because I want Labour to fail I am just genuinely interested in what would happen. I think the British people would give him a hearing, after all, there are very few tribal voters out there with entrenched political allegiances.
Capitalism has its failings and those of us with young kids are worried with what kind of economy we'll have in 15 years time.
I don't for one minute think that Corbyn and the Labour far-left have the answers to our economic future but I'd like to see him win so he can put detailed policies forward for how he'd position Britain to compete in the global marketplace.
I'm always up for kooky and unusual ideas to be aired. After all, the outlooks of our main parties have homogenised over the past twenty years.
Why play around with kooky ideas in the UK when they've recently been tried, and subsequently abandoned, in France?
Kendall is running for the leadership of, and in, the wrong party IMO
If you elect Corbyn she might be the right one to lead the New SDP away from the sinking ship.
Problem with that argument is Kendall is right of where Jenkins and Owen were and right of where Farron will be if he leads the LDs. Were the Tories to elect a rightwinger after Cameron there may be space for a Kendall led 'Blairite' Party to emerge if Corbyn were to be Labour leader, but not at the moment I don't think
My leadership vote is leaning towards Cooper followed by Corbyn, Farron, Burnham, Lamb, Osborne, Boris and in last place Kendall
There's a better chance of one of the last three being PM, than one of the first three.
1 of the last 3 may win GE2020 I agree but it will not be Kendall.
If Farron wins LD leadership i could easily vote LD at GE2020 unless i have persuaded Mrs BJ to come to Scotland by then.
I don't say this because I want Labour to fail I am just genuinely interested in what would happen. I think the British people would give him a hearing, after all, there are very few tribal voters out there with entrenched political allegiances.
Capitalism has its failings and those of us with young kids are worried with what kind of economy we'll have in 15 years time.
I don't for one minute think that Corbyn and the Labour far-left have the answers to our economic future but I'd like to see him win so he can put detailed policies forward for how he'd position Britain to compete in the global marketplace.
I'm always up for kooky and unusual ideas to be aired. After all, the outlooks of our main parties have homogenised over the past twenty years.
Corbyn's platform would be to renationalise half the FTSE100, end any choice in education, health and other public services, raise the top tax rate to 70% to pay for increased welfare benefits and to build a 'special relationship' with Putin, Cuba and Venezuela rather than the US. It would be an interesting ideological exercise, if a disaster in practice!
I don't say this because I want Labour to fail I am just genuinely interested in what would happen. I think the British people would give him a hearing, after all, there are very few tribal voters out there with entrenched political allegiances.
Capitalism has its failings and those of us with young kids are worried with what kind of economy we'll have in 15 years time.
I don't for one minute think that Corbyn and the Labour far-left have the answers to our economic future but I'd like to see him win so he can put detailed policies forward for how he'd position Britain to compete in the global marketplace.
I'm always up for kooky and unusual ideas to be aired. After all, the outlooks of our main parties have homogenised over the past twenty years.
Why play around with kooky ideas in the UK when they've recently been tried, and subsequently abandoned, in France?
I bet you'd secretly love to see Corby laying out the Labour manifesto, Richard?
alex thomson @alextomo 8m8 minutes ago @Channel4News we are live tonight in Athens and also in the Greek capital Brussels
I wonder what he meant by that...
That Greece is no longer a country.
Oh and kudos to rc1000, Tsipras indeed seems to be going down the road of Ramsey MacDonald, his opponents are calling for an emergency convention to expel Tsipras from his own party. And I believe from what I hear that indeed they have the numbers in a convention to do so.
I have already proposed today (in relation to the EU) that Cameron should be banned from playing the lottery on the basis it is not fair for the rest of us but even he couldn't end up facing a Corbyn led Labour party. Could he??
Just looking up Flint's CV makes you realise how poor some of these Labour people's experience is:
1982-1984 Women's Officer, National Union of Labour Students 1985-1985 Management Trainee, Inner London Authority 1985-1987 Policy Officer, Inner London Authority 1988-1989 Head of Women's Unit, National Union of Students 1989-1991 Equal Opportunities Officer, Lambeth Council 1991-1993 Welfare and Staff Development Officer, Lambeth Council 1994-1997 Senior Researcher and Political Officer, GMB Union 1997-present Member of Parliament, Labour Party
She can't even stay in one non-job for more than a couple of years.
Kendall is running for the leadership of, and in, the wrong party IMO
If you elect Corbyn she might be the right one to lead the New SDP away from the sinking ship.
Problem with that argument is Kendall is right of where Jenkins and Owen were and right of where Farron will be if he leads the LDs. Were the Tories to elect a rightwinger after Cameron there may be space for a Kendall led 'Blairite' Party to emerge if Corbyn were to be Labour leader, but not at the moment I don't think
My leadership vote is leaning towards Cooper followed by Corbyn, Farron, Burnham, Lamb, Osborne, Boris and in last place Kendall
There's a better chance of one of the last three being PM, than one of the first three.
1 of the last 3 may win GE2020 I agree but it will not be Kendall.
If Farron wins LD leadership i could easily vote LD at GE2020 unless i have persuaded Mrs BJ to come to Scotland by then.
Yes, if Farron wins the LD leadership, as now looks likely, I could see several leftwingers switching back to the LDs from Labour if Kendall wins the Labour leadership.
Weirdly, in a Johnny Smith of The Dead Zone manner, every time I see Jean-Claude Juncker's arrogant, back-slapping TV appearances I get hallucinogenic visions of Sepp Blatter.
Just looking up Flint's CV makes you realise how poor some of these Labour people's experience is:
1982-1984 Women's Officer, National Union of Labour Students 1985-1985 Management Trainee, Inner London Authority 1985-1987 Policy Officer, Inner London Authority 1988-1989 Head of Women's Unit, National Union of Students 1989-1991 Equal Opportunities Officer, Lambeth Council 1991-1993 Welfare and Staff Development Officer, Lambeth Council 1994-1997 Senior Researcher and Political Officer, GMB Union 1997-present Member of Parliament, Labour Party
She can't even stay in one non-job for more than a couple of years.
What an embarrassing CV. After 15 odds years and the only thing to show is a list of non-jobs speaks volumes about her. No wonder Labour is so out of touch with the average working man/woman.
Kendall is running for the leadership of, and in, the wrong party IMO
If you elect Corbyn she might be the right one to lead the New SDP away from the sinking ship.
Problem with that argument is Kendall is right of where Jenkins and Owen were and right of where Farron will be if he leads the LDs. Were the Tories to elect a rightwinger after Cameron there may be space for a Kendall led 'Blairite' Party to emerge if Corbyn were to be Labour leader, but not at the moment I don't think
My leadership vote is leaning towards Cooper followed by Corbyn, Farron, Burnham, Lamb, Osborne, Boris and in last place Kendall
There's a better chance of one of the last three being PM, than one of the first three.
1 of the last 3 may win GE2020 I agree but it will not be Kendall.
If Farron wins LD leadership i could easily vote LD at GE2020 unless i have persuaded Mrs BJ to come to Scotland by then.
Yes, if Farron wins the LD leadership, as now looks likely, I could see several leftwingers switching back to the LDs from Labour if Kendall wins the Labour leadership.
Being liberal is not the same as being left wing.
The Lib Dems want the same pro business and prudent economic policies as Liz Kendall. Indded whilst Lib Dems are left wing on social issues they are right wing on economics.
So I don't see left wing Labour defectors joining the Lib Dems nor the Lib Dems wanting them.
UK could be on the hook for £400 million towards Greece's bridging finance. That will go down like a lead balloon
It's amazing how we have to keep on paying for a currency union that we opposed.
We give the EU about £10 billion a year in any case, about the same as foreign aid.
Avast, Cap'n Doc,
Call our EU contributions International Aid, shut down the DfID, pass the residual budget to the FCO (who could probably make better use of it) and job done. That would be about £10bn in the bank, or at least off the deficit, It would even be popular with the masses.
The Notting Hill and Islington sets wouldn't like it (to say nothing of sundry shroud-wavers, and UK haters), mind, so it can't happen.
Just looking up Flint's CV makes you realise how poor some of these Labour people's experience is:
1982-1984 Women's Officer, National Union of Labour Students 1985-1985 Management Trainee, Inner London Authority 1985-1987 Policy Officer, Inner London Authority 1988-1989 Head of Women's Unit, National Union of Students 1989-1991 Equal Opportunities Officer, Lambeth Council 1991-1993 Welfare and Staff Development Officer, Lambeth Council 1994-1997 Senior Researcher and Political Officer, GMB Union 1997-present Member of Parliament, Labour Party
She can't even stay in one non-job for more than a couple of years.
What an embarrassing CV. After 15 odds years and the only thing to show is a list of non-jobs speaks volumes about her. No wonder Labour is so out of touch with the average working man/woman.
Not that Cameron and Osborne exactly set the world on fire either before politics! Of the present LD and Labour contendors Lamb seems the run who has done the most, having worked for Steele and Co Solicitors and written a book, 'Remedies in the Employment Tribunal'
I don't say this because I want Labour to fail I am just genuinely interested in what would happen. I think the British people would give him a hearing, after all, there are very few tribal voters out there with entrenched political allegiances.
Capitalism has its failings and those of us with young kids are worried with what kind of economy we'll have in 15 years time.
I don't for one minute think that Corbyn and the Labour far-left have the answers to our economic future but I'd like to see him win so he can put detailed policies forward for how he'd position Britain to compete in the global marketplace.
I'm always up for kooky and unusual ideas to be aired. After all, the outlooks of our main parties have homogenised over the past twenty years.
What i find interesting about the general left's position on welfare, is just how divorced it is from the reality of how people's behaviour is influenced by receiving it.
Yet, people live Beveridge who devised it, and those who set it up after 1945, new all too well that there are people out there who will gladly do nothing if given the opportunity.
You have to be hard as nails with people, and that you have to be aware that rewarding people for making poor short term decision changes their behaviour and creates more negative outcomes. But for them it isnt a negative outcome, because they are being rewarded, often at a level far above what they could earn in the marketplace.
UK could be on the hook for £400 million towards Greece's bridging finance. That will go down like a lead balloon
It's amazing how we have to keep on paying for a currency union that we opposed.
We give the EU about £10 billion a year in any case, about the same as foreign aid.
Avast, Cap'n Doc,
Call our EU contributions International Aid, shut down the DfID, pass the residual budget to the FCO (who could probably make better use of it) and job done. That would be about £10bn in the bank, or at least off the deficit, It would even be popular with the masses.
The Notting Hill and Islington sets wouldn't like it (to say nothing of sundry shroud-wavers, and UK haters), mind, so it can't happen.
Belike, else.
P.S. When is your birthday?
Ahoy, Mr Llama! Haven't seen you on here in ages! My birthday is in a few months' time!
Is it just me, or is she doubling down on these 'uncomfrotable truths' (as their supporters see them) rather than trying to appeal more widely? I get the impression she knows she is going to do particularly poorly, but is resigned to at least setting out a really distinct position so if the next leader does the opposite and does poorly she is at least well positioned.
Kendall is running for the leadership of, and in, the wrong party IMO
If you elect Corbyn she might be the right one to lead the New SDP away from the sinking ship.
Problem with that argument is Kendall is right of where Jenkins and Owen were and right of where Farron will be if he leads the LDs. Were the Tories to elect a rightwinger after Cameron there may be space for a Kendall led 'Blairite' Party to emerge if Corbyn were to be Labour leader, but not at the moment I don't think
My leadership vote is leaning towards Cooper followed by Corbyn, Farron, Burnham, Lamb, Osborne, Boris and in last place Kendall
There's a better chance of one of the last three being PM, than one of the first three.
1 of the last 3 may win GE2020 I agree but it will not be Kendall.
If Farron wins LD leadership i could easily vote LD at GE2020 unless i have persuaded Mrs BJ to come to Scotland by then.
Yes, if Farron wins the LD leadership, as now looks likely, I could see several leftwingers switching back to the LDs from Labour if Kendall wins the Labour leadership.
Being liberal is not the same as being left wing.
The Lib Dems want the same pro business and prudent economic policies as Liz Kendall. Indded whilst Lib Dems are left wing on social issues they are right wing on economics.
So I don't see left wing Labour defectors joining the Lib Dems nor the Lib Dems wanting them.
Except Farron would represent a big shift from Clegg in both areas. He is much more statist than Clegg, much more willing to increase taxes on the rich and much more reluctant to cut spending. He is also slightly more socially conservative being an evangelical Christian, without being aggressive about it.
So while your argument holds for a Clegg led party, or indeed a Lamb led party, which leftwingers would never vote for, it does not hold for a Farron led party, which many leftwingers would gladly vote for if the alternative was Kendall!
A bleeding heart is rarely a sensible mindset when dealing with chancers. And the lazy, feckless and dishonest will always take the piss if you let them.
I don't say this because I want Labour to fail I am just genuinely interested in what would happen. I think the British people would give him a hearing, after all, there are very few tribal voters out there with entrenched political allegiances.
Capitalism has its failings and those of us with young kids are worried with what kind of economy we'll have in 15 years time.
I don't for one minute think that Corbyn and the Labour far-left have the answers to our economic future but I'd like to see him win so he can put detailed policies forward for how he'd position Britain to compete in the global marketplace.
I'm always up for kooky and unusual ideas to be aired. After all, the outlooks of our main parties have homogenised over the past twenty years.
What i find interesting about the general left's position on welfare, is just how divorced it is from the reality of how people's behaviour is influenced by receiving it.
Yet, people live Beveridge who devised it, and those who set it up after 1945, new all too well that there are people out there who will gladly do nothing if given the opportunity.
You have to be hard as nails with people, and that you have to be aware that rewarding people for making poor short term decision changes their behaviour and creates more negative outcomes. But for them it isnt a negative outcome, because they are being rewarded, often at a level far above what they could earn in the marketplace.
UK could be on the hook for £400 million towards Greece's bridging finance. That will go down like a lead balloon
It's amazing how we have to keep on paying for a currency union that we opposed.
We give the EU about £10 billion a year in any case, about the same as foreign aid.
Avast, Cap'n Doc,
Call our EU contributions International Aid, shut down the DfID, pass the residual budget to the FCO (who could probably make better use of it) and job done. That would be about £10bn in the bank, or at least off the deficit, It would even be popular with the masses.
The Notting Hill and Islington sets wouldn't like it (to say nothing of sundry shroud-wavers, and UK haters), mind, so it can't happen.
Belike, else.
P.S. When is your birthday?
Ahoy, Mr Llama! Haven't seen you on here in ages! My birthday is in a few months' time!
No, I haven't posted much for quite a while and for my reappearance you can blame on Morris Dancer. I have been lurking though, and so I know your birthday is coming up. What's more, if the drink-addled pit which now passes for my memory is correct, I seem to recall that you said on here that you were going to be forty.
Now it occurs to me that such a big milestone ought to be marked by your friends, but we cannot do that unless we know the date. Hence my question.
P.S. How would your mother react if we had a whip round a sent a stripogram girl to your home address?
There is a fascinating story in the house magazine of British Europhilia this evening. Apparently, the European Commission and France are lobbying for bridging finance to Greece to be provided under TFEU article 122(2) and Council Regulation 407/2010/EU. If so, every EU member state would be liable, and the finance could be authorised by the Council by qualified majority vote. As the authors note, Cameron has frequently claimed to have obtained an opt out from bailing out Eurozone countries. He was a fool not to have vetoed the Eurozone states' establishment of the European Stability Mechanism without getting anything for Britain in return, and Parliament was typically naïve when it passed the European Union (Approval of Treaty Amendment Decision) Act 2012 on the faith of his assurances.
A bleeding heart is rarely a sensible mindset when dealing with chancers. And the lazy, feckless and dishonest will always take the piss if you let them.
I don't say this because I want Labour to fail I am just genuinely interested in what would happen. I think the British people would give him a hearing, after all, there are very few tribal voters out there with entrenched political allegiances.
Capitalism has its failings and those of us with young kids are worried with what kind of economy we'll have in 15 years time.
I don't for one minute think that Corbyn and the Labour far-left have the answers to our economic future but I'd like to see him win so he can put detailed policies forward for how he'd position Britain to compete in the global marketplace.
I'm always up for kooky and unusual ideas to be aired. After all, the outlooks of our main parties have homogenised over the past twenty years.
What i find interesting about the general left's position on welfare, is just how divorced it is from the reality of how people's behaviour is influenced by receiving it.
Yet, people live Beveridge who devised it, and those who set it up after 1945, new all too well that there are people out there who will gladly do nothing if given the opportunity.
You have to be hard as nails with people, and that you have to be aware that rewarding people for making poor short term decision changes their behaviour and creates more negative outcomes. But for them it isnt a negative outcome, because they are being rewarded, often at a level far above what they could earn in the marketplace.
I am from these people. I might now have a nice job, nice home in the country etc. But I know that you cannot deal with these people with a bleeding heart. They will tell you the longest sob story, but in reality they are tough as boots, and will know every wheeze going. Again in many cases their lives are littered with bad decision after bad decision.
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn would be that much of a disaster for Labour compared to their current situation. He'd probably do about the same as Michael Foot in 1983, which wouldn't be a huge decline from May 2015 given how badly they did then.
Foot won 209 seats, Miliband 232, Kinnock 229 in 1987. Were Corbyn to match Foot's total, Labour would lose another 23 seats!
There is a fascinating story in the house magazine of British Europhilia this evening. Apparently, the European Commission and France are lobbying for bridging finance to Greece to be provided under TFEU article 122(2) and Council Regulation 407/2010/EU. If so, every EU member state would be liable, and the finance could be authorised by the Council by qualified majority vote. As the authors note, Cameron has frequently claimed to have obtained an opt out from bailing out Eurozone countries. He was a fool not to have vetoed the Eurozone states' establishment of the European Stability Mechanism without getting anything for Britain in return, and Parliament was typically naïve when it passed the European Union (Approval of Treaty Amendment Decision) Act 2012 on the faith of his assurances.
Are you saying that Cameron is the heir to Blair, Mr Town? You could be right...
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn would be that much of a disaster for Labour compared to their current situation. He'd probably do about the same as Michael Foot in 1983, which wouldn't be a huge decline from May 2015 given how badly they did then.
Foot won 209 seats, Miliband 232, Kinnock 229 in 1987. Were Corbyn to match Foot's total, Labour would lose another 23 seats!
232 vs 209 isn't a big difference IMO.
It is the difference between Labour's 3rd worst and worst result in postwar history! In fact Corbyn could well end up closer to Hague and Major's 2001 and 1997 score than Foot's 1983 total
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn would be that much of a disaster for Labour compared to their current situation. He'd probably do about the same as Michael Foot in 1983, which wouldn't be a huge decline from May 2015 given how badly they did then.
Foot won 209 seats, Miliband 232, Kinnock 229 in 1987. Were Corbyn to match Foot's total, Labour would lose another 23 seats!
232 vs 209 isn't a big difference IMO.
It is the difference between Labour's 3rd worst and worst result in postwar history! In fact Corbyn could well end up closer to Hague and Major's 2001 and 1997 score than Foot's 1983 total
My main point is that I don't think Corbyn would produce a result for Labour like 25% and 150 seats. But he certainly wouldn't do any better than Ed Miliband.
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn would be that much of a disaster for Labour compared to their current situation. He'd probably do about the same as Michael Foot in 1983, which wouldn't be a huge decline from May 2015 given how badly they did then.
Foot won 209 seats, Miliband 232, Kinnock 229 in 1987. Were Corbyn to match Foot's total, Labour would lose another 23 seats!
232 vs 209 isn't a big difference IMO.
It is the difference between Labour's 3rd worst and worst result in postwar history! In fact Corbyn could well end up closer to Hague and Major's 2001 and 1997 score than Foot's 1983 total
My main point is that I don't think Corbyn would produce a result for Labour like 25% and 150 seats. But he certainly wouldn't do any better than Ed Miliband.
I am not sure, he would certainly lose seats Miliband won like Wirral West and Chester and a Farron led LDs could also pick up some seats they lost in 2015 to Labour. He might pick up a few in Scotland but Scotland is not as leftwing as some leftwingers like to make out and I cannot see Scottish middle class voters being much impressed by Corbyn, they will stick with Sturgeon
As Eric Cartman would say "someone's got some sand in their vagi*a".
Speaking as someone sympathetic to Israel, I think the content of his reply was intelligent and balanced. It's a pity he got a bit irritable but at least there's some substance there, as opposed to the "We must strive for peaceful solutions" mush that politicians generally use for the issue. I'm getting a bit tempted to vote for him.
As Eric Cartman would say "someone's got some sand in their vagi*a".
Speaking as someone sympathetic to Israel, I think the content of his reply was intelligent and balanced. It's a pity he got a bit irritable but at least there's some substance there, as opposed to the "We must strive for peaceful solutions" much that politicians generally use for the issue. I'm getting a bit tempted to vote for him.
As Eric Cartman would say "someone's got some sand in their vagi*a".
Speaking as someone sympathetic to Israel, I think the content of his reply was intelligent and balanced. It's a pity he got a bit irritable but at least there's some substance there, as opposed to the "We must strive for peaceful solutions" mush that politicians generally use for the issue. I'm getting a bit tempted to vote for him.
I take it "intelligent and balanced" means trying to answer a question different to the one asked, and "a bit irritable" means getting incredibly angry every time the interviewer interrupted to get him to answer the actual question?
As Eric Cartman would say "someone's got some sand in their vagi*a".
Speaking as someone sympathetic to Israel, I think the content of his reply was intelligent and balanced. It's a pity he got a bit irritable but at least there's some substance there, as opposed to the "We must strive for peaceful solutions" mush that politicians generally use for the issue. I'm getting a bit tempted to vote for him.
It shows quite clearly that they cant keep to their word about not interfering in English only matters. While I would prefer something else to have a showdown over, EVEL is absolutely necessary.
In a funny way, I'm rather glad it's this issue - it doesn't matter much in practical terms to the day to day life of hunts, but it has exposed the SNP inability to keep it in their trousers.
If it had been about something one could somehow argue effected Scotland tangentially - it could get sidetracked - this is totally standalone - and headline grabbing.
It shows quite clearly that they cant keep to their word about not interfering in English only matters. While I would prefer something else to have a showdown over, EVEL is absolutely necessary.
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn would be that much of a disaster for Labour compared to their current situation. He'd probably do about the same as Michael Foot in 1983, which wouldn't be a huge decline from May 2015 given how badly they did then.
Foot won 209 seats, Miliband 232, Kinnock 229 in 1987. Were Corbyn to match Foot's total, Labour would lose another 23 seats!
232 vs 209 isn't a big difference IMO.
It is the difference between Labour's 3rd worst and worst result in postwar history! In fact Corbyn could well end up closer to Hague and Major's 2001 and 1997 score than Foot's 1983 total
My main point is that I don't think Corbyn would produce a result for Labour like 25% and 150 seats. But he certainly wouldn't do any better than Ed Miliband.
Yesterday, I suggested 240 seats under Corbyn. On reflection, I think that's a bit optimistic. But, I could see Labour regaining 20 or so Scotland, while losing a similar number in England and Wales, if he were leader,
It shows quite clearly that they cant keep to their word about not interfering in English only matters. While I would prefer something else to have a showdown over, EVEL is absolutely necessary.
Poor show.
The Conservatives' plans for EVEL would not help here, as it puts English matters through a double majority, needing to pass at both the UK and English levels. So even if it passed the English committee, the SNP could still swing the balance at the UK vote.
And into the trap they jump htps://twitter.com/adamboultonSKY/status/620671066365657088
It shows quite clearly that they cant keep to their word about not interfering in English only matters. .
I thought the SNP had already stated they would interfere as necessary from now on? Not sure why this is an issue that would warrant it, but maybe it's a test case. Not voting on non-Scottish matters was never going to be very realistic for them now they have so many MPs, hence why I thought they'd outright said they might.
Unbelievable. Especially considering that they are bringing the law into line with what is in force in Scotland.
And Cameron's current plans for EVEL would do absolutely nothing to stop this. The Scots would still have he right to help this down under his proposals.
Unbelievable. Especially considering that they are bringing the law into line with what is in force in Scotland.
And Cameron's current plans for EVEL would do absolutely nothing to stop this. The Scots would still have he right to help this down under his proposals.
Yep, which highlights just how stupid the SNP's reaction to the "modest" proposals was.
As predicted, the SNP will vote on English only matters...
@JournoStephen: Things that are not going to be edifying: When someone goes through all the votes the SNP has abstained on and picks out the most sensitive.
Unbelievable. Especially considering that they are bringing the law into line with what is in force in Scotland.
And Cameron's current plans for EVEL would do absolutely nothing to stop this. The Scots would still have he right to help this down under his proposals.
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn would be that much of a disaster for Labour compared to their current situation. He'd probably do about the same as Michael Foot in 1983, which wouldn't be a huge decline from May 2015 given how badly they did then.
Foot won 209 seats, Miliband 232, Kinnock 229 in 1987. Were Corbyn to match Foot's total, Labour would lose another 23 seats!
232 vs 209 isn't a big difference IMO.
It is the difference between Labour's 3rd worst and worst result in postwar history! In fact Corbyn could well end up closer to Hague and Major's 2001 and 1997 score than Foot's 1983 total
My main point is that I don't think Corbyn would produce a result for Labour like 25% and 150 seats. But he certainly wouldn't do any better than Ed Miliband.
Yesterday, I suggested 240 seats under Corbyn. On reflection, I think that's a bit optimistic. But, I could see Labour regaining 20 or so Scotland, while losing a similar number in England and Wales, if he were leader,
Perhaps, but I can't see Corbyn having much appeal in Scotland outside of Glasgow and a few areas of the Central Belt
Interesting that we seem to consistently get drawn in. Greece certainly are their own worse enemies undoubtedly but for some reason I just find the whole thing about the EU circus somewhat distasteful. The hypocritical stance of the EU over agreements when Greece ignore them but it appears perfectly ok for the EU to do the same.....
What gives Juncker the right to tear up a previous deal? Nothing, nothing whatsoever will get in then ay of the project even formal agreements. It is worrying very worrying. Wars have started for less.
Daily telegraph
Britain will be liable for close to £1 billion of emergency loans to Greece, it can be revealed, after Jean-Claude Juncker tore up a “black and white” deal to protect UK taxpayers from Eurozone bailouts. George Osborne, the Chancellor, today attempted to fight off a proposal to raid the EU budget to save Greek banks from financial collapse... The proposal tosses aside a written agreement between David Cameron and his counterparts that stated British taxpayers would never again be exposed to Eurozone bailouts.
It looks like the Hunting Bill repeal will now fail with the SNP and Tory rebels joining Labour, even though the law essentially brings England into line with Scotland
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn would be that much of a disaster for Labour compared to their current situation. He'd probably do about the same as Michael Foot in 1983, which wouldn't be a huge decline from May 2015 given how badly they did then.
Foot won 209 seats, Miliband 232, Kinnock 229 in 1987. Were Corbyn to match Foot's total, Labour would lose another 23 seats!
232 vs 209 isn't a big difference IMO.
It is the difference between Labour's 3rd worst and worst result in postwar history! In fact Corbyn could well end up closer to Hague and Major's 2001 and 1997 score than Foot's 1983 total
My main point is that I don't think Corbyn would produce a result for Labour like 25% and 150 seats. But he certainly wouldn't do any better than Ed Miliband.
Yesterday, I suggested 240 seats under Corbyn. On reflection, I think that's a bit optimistic. But, I could see Labour regaining 20 or so Scotland, while losing a similar number in England and Wales, if he were leader,
Yes, could do quite well in Glasgow and Liverpool - that'd be about it. Definitely losing seats in London. It's clear that Corbyn is the answer if you think Labour should be following a 20% strategy. The C4 interview was just a preview of what an f***ing disaster he would be.
It looks like the Hunting Bill repeal will now fail with the SNP and Tory rebels joining Labour, even though the law essentially brings England into line with Scotland
There is no proposal to repeal the Hunting Act 2004.
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn would be that much of a disaster for Labour compared to their current situation. He'd probably do about the same as Michael Foot in 1983, which wouldn't be a huge decline from May 2015 given how badly they did then.
Foot won 209 seats, Miliband 232, Kinnock 229 in 1987. Were Corbyn to match Foot's total, Labour would lose another 23 seats!
232 vs 209 isn't a big difference IMO.
It is the difference between Labour's 3rd worst and worst result in postwar history! In fact Corbyn could well end up closer to Hague and Major's 2001 and 1997 score than Foot's 1983 total
My main point is that I don't think Corbyn would produce a result for Labour like 25% and 150 seats. But he certainly wouldn't do any better than Ed Miliband.
Yesterday, I suggested 240 seats under Corbyn. On reflection, I think that's a bit optimistic. But, I could see Labour regaining 20 or so Scotland, while losing a similar number in England and Wales, if he were leader,
Yes, could do quite well in Glasgow and Liverpool - that'd be about it. Definitely losing seats in London. It's clear that Corbyn is the answer if you think Labour should be following a 20% strategy. The C4 interview was just a preview of what an f***ing disaster he would be.
Interesting that we seem to consistently get drawn in. Greece certainly are their own worse enemies undoubtedly but for some reason I just find the whole thing about the EU circus somewhat distasteful. The hypocritical stance of the EU over agreements when Greece ignore them but it appears perfectly ok for the EU to do the same.....
What gives Juncker the right to tear up a previous deal? Nothing, nothing whatsoever will get in then ay of the project even formal agreements. It is worrying very worrying. Wars have started for less.
Cameron settled for a gentleman's agreement rather than a legal guarantee. You reap what you sow.
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn would be that much of a disaster for Labour compared to their current situation. He'd probably do about the same as Michael Foot in 1983, which wouldn't be a huge decline from May 2015 given how badly they did then.
Foot won 209 seats, Miliband 232, Kinnock 229 in 1987. Were Corbyn to match Foot's total, Labour would lose another 23 seats!
232 vs 209 isn't a big difference IMO.
It is the difference between Labour's 3rd worst and worst result in postwar history! In fact Corbyn could well end up closer to Hague and Major's 2001 and 1997 score than Foot's 1983 total
My main point is that I don't think Corbyn would produce a result for Labour like 25% and 150 seats. But he certainly wouldn't do any better than Ed Miliband.
Yesterday, I suggested 240 seats under Corbyn. On reflection, I think that's a bit optimistic. But, I could see Labour regaining 20 or so Scotland, while losing a similar number in England and Wales, if he were leader,
Yes, could do quite well in Glasgow and Liverpool - that'd be about it. Definitely losing seats in London. It's clear that Corbyn is the answer if you think Labour should be following a 20% strategy. The C4 interview was just a preview of what an f***ing disaster he would be.
Yes, I was genuinely surprised: Corbyn the combustible!
Comments
They might have other attack lines at their disposal though.
Corbyn win - everyone basically bites their tongue for 5 years. We've a recent precedent for that.
If Kendall does as badly as the limited information is indicating a wing of a damaged and diminished party will die. What is left may be more unified but they will be considerably less electable.
Harriet Harman tells PLP how Labour votes on second reading of Welfare Bill will be "hung around our necks" by Tories and other critics.
I think she feels the party is due a reality check and this is her way of doing it. She will effectively be retired from front line politics in a few months. If she is not going to do this now she never will.
I don't say this because I want Labour to fail I am just genuinely interested in what would happen. I think the British people would give him a hearing, after all, there are very few tribal voters out there with entrenched political allegiances.
Capitalism has its failings and those of us with young kids are worried with what kind of economy we'll have in 15 years time.
I don't for one minute think that Corbyn and the Labour far-left have the answers to our economic future but I'd like to see him win so he can put detailed policies forward for how he'd position Britain to compete in the global marketplace.
I'm always up for kooky and unusual ideas to be aired. After all, the outlooks of our main parties have homogenised over the past twenty years.
@Channel4News we are live tonight in Athens and also in the Greek capital Brussels
I wonder what he meant by that...
If Farron wins LD leadership i could easily vote LD at GE2020 unless i have persuaded Mrs BJ to come to Scotland by then.
Oh and kudos to rc1000, Tsipras indeed seems to be going down the road of Ramsey MacDonald, his opponents are calling for an emergency convention to expel Tsipras from his own party.
And I believe from what I hear that indeed they have the numbers in a convention to do so.
1982-1984 Women's Officer, National Union of Labour Students
1985-1985 Management Trainee, Inner London Authority
1985-1987 Policy Officer, Inner London Authority
1988-1989 Head of Women's Unit, National Union of Students
1989-1991 Equal Opportunities Officer, Lambeth Council
1991-1993 Welfare and Staff Development Officer, Lambeth Council
1994-1997 Senior Researcher and Political Officer, GMB Union
1997-present Member of Parliament, Labour Party
She can't even stay in one non-job for more than a couple of years.
Man U goalie won't be joining from Spurs.
They have too many oily similarities for me.
Being liberal is not the same as being left wing.
The Lib Dems want the same pro business and prudent economic policies as Liz Kendall. Indded whilst Lib Dems are left wing on social issues they are right wing on economics.
So I don't see left wing Labour defectors joining the Lib Dems nor the Lib Dems wanting them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/
Call our EU contributions International Aid, shut down the DfID, pass the residual budget to the FCO (who could probably make better use of it) and job done. That would be about £10bn in the bank, or at least off the deficit, It would even be popular with the masses.
The Notting Hill and Islington sets wouldn't like it (to say nothing of sundry shroud-wavers, and UK haters), mind, so it can't happen.
Belike, else.
P.S. When is your birthday?
Yet, people live Beveridge who devised it, and those who set it up after 1945, new all too well that there are people out there who will gladly do nothing if given the opportunity.
You have to be hard as nails with people, and that you have to be aware that rewarding people for making poor short term decision changes their behaviour and creates more negative outcomes. But for them it isnt a negative outcome, because they are being rewarded, often at a level far above what they could earn in the marketplace.
So while your argument holds for a Clegg led party, or indeed a Lamb led party, which leftwingers would never vote for, it does not hold for a Farron led party, which many leftwingers would gladly vote for if the alternative was Kendall!
Now it occurs to me that such a big milestone ought to be marked by your friends, but we cannot do that unless we know the date. Hence my question.
P.S. How would your mother react if we had a whip round a sent a stripogram girl to your home address?
I am from these people. I might now have a nice job, nice home in the country etc. But I know that you cannot deal with these people with a bleeding heart. They will tell you the longest sob story, but in reality they are tough as boots, and will know every wheeze going. Again in many cases their lives are littered with bad decision after bad decision.
And his explanation "friends in a collective sense"
Yeah right.
Well that's one way of looking at his hissy-hit - arguing with KGM and calling it *tabloid journalism* and raising his voice quite noticeably.
I think *stroppy* is more accurate.
The UK has already been involved in several Eurozone bailouts, contrary to Cameron's assurance:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1369390/Portugal-bailout-cost-UK-3bn-PM-Joe-Socrates-resigns.html
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/22/ireland-bailout-uk-lends-seven-billion
But as you say, it would be very inappropriate if we were forced to bail out Greece also.
https://twitter.com/adamboultonSKY/status/620671066365657088
2 Burnham
3 Corbyn
4 Kendall
Ta Nick.
Poor show.
If it had been about something one could somehow argue effected Scotland tangentially - it could get sidetracked - this is totally standalone - and headline grabbing.
@JournoStephen: Things that are not going to be edifying: When someone goes through all the votes the SNP has abstained on and picks out the most sensitive.
I may be overly cynical - but I just see TRAP written all over the whole thing.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/categories/politics/
@schofieldkevin: A lot can change in 9 years, to be fair ... http://t.co/cRbEIWeY1j
What gives Juncker the right to tear up a previous deal? Nothing, nothing whatsoever will get in then ay of the project even formal agreements. It is worrying very worrying. Wars have started for less.
Daily telegraph
Britain will be liable for close to £1 billion of emergency loans to Greece, it can be revealed, after Jean-Claude Juncker tore up a “black and white” deal to protect UK taxpayers from Eurozone bailouts.
George Osborne, the Chancellor, today attempted to fight off a proposal to raid the EU budget to save Greek banks from financial collapse... The proposal tosses aside a written agreement between David Cameron and his counterparts that stated British taxpayers would never again be exposed to Eurozone bailouts.
He came across as incredibly hot-headed during that intv - and it was without any provocation.
Either it's his total lack of Big Time media experience - or a glimpse of his persona that he carefully hides in corduroy and Lenin hat.
new thread