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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why you should be backing Jeremy Hunt as next PM

SystemSystem Posts: 11,688
edited June 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why you should be backing Jeremy Hunt as next PM

Despite their very best efforts, Labour wasn’t able to weaponise the NHS to their advantage or damage the Tories on the NHS in the election campaign (nor in the run up to the election.) The NHS is an issue that has been traditionally perceived to be one of Labour’s strongest areas, Labour’s failure to make the NHS an election issue says a lot about Hunt’s abilities as a …

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  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    I've been a fan of Jeremy's for a long time, but I'm not sure I see him as a leadership candidate. He's very good at calming troubled waters, very emollient, non-offensive to a lot of people. But I'm not sure that he inspires people to go over the barricades for him.

    (and first)
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited June 2015
    @viewcode FPT

    I always remember how to spell "separate" based on the fact that you should 'never separate a man from his parachute'
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Charles said:

    I've been a fan of Jeremy's for a long time, but I'm not sure I see him as a leadership candidate. He's very good at calming troubled waters, very emollient, non-offensive to a lot of people. But I'm not sure that he inspires people to go over the barricades for him.

    (and first)

    He also stopped The Apprentice being shown in the run-up to the 2010 election, which suggests an Osborneque eye for a gimmick.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311
    I have been mooting this possibility since before the election when Hunt was excellent. I remember in particular when he stood in for Cameron in a phone in show on R5. He was all the things Charles said and no one laid a glove on him. In terms of coming across as Mr reasonable he is the closest thing to a replacement for Cameron the Tories have.

    At the next election the Tories will want to keep the couple of million votes they got from the Lib Dems. He will be ideal for that. He would be less good, obviously, at winning back Kippers but he would consolidate the Tories centralising message which is an election winning strategy.

    There have been a number of occasions when he has made AB look quite foolish which shows he has a bit of steel in him but I also get what Charles is talking about when he says he is not particularly inspirational. But he is arguably the continuity candidate (unless Osborne decides he wants it himself of course) and TSE is right to point out the prices are silly.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,296
    'Another advantage for Hunt is, that the NHS is one of the very few government departments that has its budget ring-fenced from cuts, and is expected to receive increased funding, so whilst other ministers struggle with departmental spending cuts, Hunt’s department, which is arguably the most high profile public service government department, won’t be dealing with such issues, which should theoretically help him politically.'

    Not quite sure I agree with that TSE. The NHS will be getting slight funding increases, but it will also be getting huge cost rises. Therefore, to keep its books balanced it is going to have to cut.

    My friends in the NHS suggest that there might be quite a lot of administration cut, especially in equalities, disabilities etc. That could cause a lot of outrage on the left because most of the people who work in them are themselves from minorities/disabled and there are going to be lots of 'hard cases' for them to parade.

    I also have to say I find it difficult to believe an essentially uncharismatic and comparatively little-known ex-public-schoolboy could follow Cameron, especially given his associations with Murdoch and Brookes. It's Javid's background and clean skin that make him attractive and the prices reflect that. Also, Javid is a potential candidate for Osborne to put forward should he decide - as I expect him to - that he would not be able to do the top job himself (or at least, not do it and win an election) which could well be decisive.

    If anything therefore 50/1 seems therefore very short to me - I'd put Hunt at around 100/1. Certainly I don't think he's a value bet.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Hunt - good egg, he de-weaponised the NHS and because he is mild mannered the journos and opposition can't quite put him in the mould they want to cast him in.

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311
    edited June 2015
    This piece on the Greece situation contains an interesting graphic on Greek debt confirming that pretty much 2/3 of its external debt is now owed to the ECB/EZ and another 10% to the IMF.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33307263

    It also emphasises that the level of support this country has had from the other EZ members is truly stunning. They really have a cheek and are deeply deluded. Foreign Banks are at 1% which indicates why people are being sanguine about the systemic risks of default.

    Will the Bank closures finally bring it home to the Greeks (their current leadership is past praying for) that they have chosen the wrong path? How on earth do they get back on track? I fear that it is going to be very difficult to reverse this. Like the start of WW1 referred to yesterday this now has its own momentum and options are few even if the Greeks wanted to cave in.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    I have been mooting this possibility since before the election when Hunt was excellent. I remember in particular when he stood in for Cameron in a phone in show on R5. He was all the things Charles said and no one laid a glove on him. In terms of coming across as Mr reasonable he is the closest thing to a replacement for Cameron the Tories have.

    At the next election the Tories will want to keep the couple of million votes they got from the Lib Dems. He will be ideal for that. He would be less good, obviously, at winning back Kippers but he would consolidate the Tories centralising message which is an election winning strategy.

    There have been a number of occasions when he has made AB look quite foolish which shows he has a bit of steel in him but I also get what Charles is talking about when he says he is not particularly inspirational. But he is arguably the continuity candidate (unless Osborne decides he wants it himself of course) and TSE is right to point out the prices are silly.

    That's all true, but - as always - I try to look at who would be good at the job, not who will win it! If the PM is not an agent of change then the government will drift. Jeremy is a nice man, with a good line in self-deprecating humour and an easy charm. But I don't think he's an agent of change: more a smoother of ruffled feathers.

    Javid is sensible, and smart, with a great backstory. I introduced him at an event a year ago and he gave a good, but fundamentally shallow, speech. It ticked all the right boxes, but somehow felt lacking in something. I think that 5 years of Cabinet level experience will be the making of him: if he can prove to me that he's not your archetypal glib banker-salesman, but actually has a vision that he believes in, then he could be a great candidate.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    I have been mooting this possibility since before the election when Hunt was excellent. I remember in particular when he stood in for Cameron in a phone in show on R5. He was all the things Charles said and no one laid a glove on him. In terms of coming across as Mr reasonable he is the closest thing to a replacement for Cameron the Tories have.

    At the next election the Tories will want to keep the couple of million votes they got from the Lib Dems. He will be ideal for that. He would be less good, obviously, at winning back Kippers but he would consolidate the Tories centralising message which is an election winning strategy.

    There have been a number of occasions when he has made AB look quite foolish which shows he has a bit of steel in him but I also get what Charles is talking about when he says he is not particularly inspirational. But he is arguably the continuity candidate (unless Osborne decides he wants it himself of course) and TSE is right to point out the prices are silly.

    That's all true, but - as always - I try to look at who would be good at the job, not who will win it! If the PM is not an agent of change then the government will drift. Jeremy is a nice man, with a good line in self-deprecating humour and an easy charm. But I don't think he's an agent of change: more a smoother of ruffled feathers.

    Javid is sensible, and smart, with a great backstory. I introduced him at an event a year ago and he gave a good, but fundamentally shallow, speech. It ticked all the right boxes, but somehow felt lacking in something. I think that 5 years of Cabinet level experience will be the making of him: if he can prove to me that he's not your archetypal glib banker-salesman, but actually has a vision that he believes in, then he could be a great candidate.
    " I try to look at who would be good at the job, not who will win it! If the PM is not an agent of change then the government will drift."

    Well that's Osborne out of the running then :-)
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    I have been mooting this possibility since before the election when Hunt was excellent. I remember in particular when he stood in for Cameron in a phone in show on R5. He was all the things Charles said and no one laid a glove on him. In terms of coming across as Mr reasonable he is the closest thing to a replacement for Cameron the Tories have.

    At the next election the Tories will want to keep the couple of million votes they got from the Lib Dems. He will be ideal for that. He would be less good, obviously, at winning back Kippers but he would consolidate the Tories centralising message which is an election winning strategy.

    There have been a number of occasions when he has made AB look quite foolish which shows he has a bit of steel in him but I also get what Charles is talking about when he says he is not particularly inspirational. But he is arguably the continuity candidate (unless Osborne decides he wants it himself of course) and TSE is right to point out the prices are silly.

    That's all true, but - as always - I try to look at who would be good at the job, not who will win it! If the PM is not an agent of change then the government will drift. Jeremy is a nice man, with a good line in self-deprecating humour and an easy charm. But I don't think he's an agent of change: more a smoother of ruffled feathers.

    Javid is sensible, and smart, with a great backstory. I introduced him at an event a year ago and he gave a good, but fundamentally shallow, speech. It ticked all the right boxes, but somehow felt lacking in something. I think that 5 years of Cabinet level experience will be the making of him: if he can prove to me that he's not your archetypal glib banker-salesman, but actually has a vision that he believes in, then he could be a great candidate.
    Like you I see a lot of potential in Javid but he has a lot of growing to do. His current department was a drag on change the last time around under the lugubrious leadership of Cable and has a serious amount of catching up to do. If he delivers a real reform program there and helps with increasing the competitiveness of the economy he will be a major candidate. He has been set up in Business by Osborne so he has complete backing to be radical. It is really up to him to deliver.

    I think he might. It is in fairness quite hard to be anything other than fluffy and shallow as Culture Secretary. Why we still have such a post is something of a mystery to me.

    No doubt I would think this as a Tory supporter but the choices available to the Conservatives are generally as far ahead of the options available to Labour as I can ever remember between the two main parties.
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Why is the betting slip dated "11/09/15"?
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Hunt - good egg, he de-weaponised the NHS and because he is mild mannered the journos and opposition can't quite put him in the mould they want to cast him in.

    That Hunt deweaponised the NHS is perhaps a condemnation of Labour under Ed Miliband. Despite rising waiting lists, and waiting times in A&E, and a looming GP shortage and massive funding gap, all we heard was an empty call to "weaponise the NHS," but then nothing. Platitudes and slogans are no substitute for policies. It is to CCHQ's (and Crosby's?) credit that as soon as the NHS did look like it might become an issue, David Cameron immediately announced more funding.

    And if Andy Burnham can't make anything of that, what is the point of him?
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    DavidL said:

    This piece on the Greece situation contains an interesting graphic on Greek debt confirming that pretty much 2/3 of its external debt is now owed to the ECB/EZ and another 10% to the IMF.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33307263

    It also emphasises that the level of support this country has had from the other EZ members is truly stunning. They really have a cheek and are deeply deluded. Foreign Banks are at 1% which indicates why people are being sanguine about the systemic risks of default.

    Will the Bank closures finally bring it home to the Greeks (their current leadership is past praying for) that they have chosen the wrong path? How on earth do they get back on track? I fear that it is going to be very difficult to reverse this. Like the start of WW1 referred to yesterday this now has its own momentum and options are few even if the Greeks wanted to cave in.

    You say it is external debt but if the Eurozone has any coherence, surely it should be internal debt?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311

    DavidL said:

    This piece on the Greece situation contains an interesting graphic on Greek debt confirming that pretty much 2/3 of its external debt is now owed to the ECB/EZ and another 10% to the IMF.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33307263

    It also emphasises that the level of support this country has had from the other EZ members is truly stunning. They really have a cheek and are deeply deluded. Foreign Banks are at 1% which indicates why people are being sanguine about the systemic risks of default.

    Will the Bank closures finally bring it home to the Greeks (their current leadership is past praying for) that they have chosen the wrong path? How on earth do they get back on track? I fear that it is going to be very difficult to reverse this. Like the start of WW1 referred to yesterday this now has its own momentum and options are few even if the Greeks wanted to cave in.

    You say it is external debt but if the Eurozone has any coherence, surely it should be internal debt?
    As the Spartans would point out the key word there is "if".

    But it is pretty extraordinary that through the mechanisms of the European Financial Stability fund etc the other EU members have effectively bought up so much of Greece's debt and allowed a country which had no effective access to the market to operate relatively normally for so long. And their response was to elect Syriza. Truly no good deed goes unpunished.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This piece on the Greece situation contains an interesting graphic on Greek debt confirming that pretty much 2/3 of its external debt is now owed to the ECB/EZ and another 10% to the IMF.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33307263

    It also emphasises that the level of support this country has had from the other EZ members is truly stunning. They really have a cheek and are deeply deluded. Foreign Banks are at 1% which indicates why people are being sanguine about the systemic risks of default.

    Will the Bank closures finally bring it home to the Greeks (their current leadership is past praying for) that they have chosen the wrong path? How on earth do they get back on track? I fear that it is going to be very difficult to reverse this. Like the start of WW1 referred to yesterday this now has its own momentum and options are few even if the Greeks wanted to cave in.

    You say it is external debt but if the Eurozone has any coherence, surely it should be internal debt?
    As the Spartans would point out the key word there is "if".

    But it is pretty extraordinary that through the mechanisms of the European Financial Stability fund etc the other EU members have effectively bought up so much of Greece's debt and allowed a country which had no effective access to the market to operate relatively normally for so long. And their response was to elect Syriza. Truly no good deed goes unpunished.
    Given their predicament, is it any surprise they voted for Syriza (not that it will do any good?)
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,397
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This piece on the Greece situation contains an interesting graphic on Greek debt confirming that pretty much 2/3 of its external debt is now owed to the ECB/EZ and another 10% to the IMF.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33307263

    It also emphasises that the level of support this country has had from the other EZ members is truly stunning. They really have a cheek and are deeply deluded. Foreign Banks are at 1% which indicates why people are being sanguine about the systemic risks of default.

    Will the Bank closures finally bring it home to the Greeks (their current leadership is past praying for) that they have chosen the wrong path? How on earth do they get back on track? I fear that it is going to be very difficult to reverse this. Like the start of WW1 referred to yesterday this now has its own momentum and options are few even if the Greeks wanted to cave in.

    You say it is external debt but if the Eurozone has any coherence, surely it should be internal debt?
    As the Spartans would point out the key word there is "if".

    But it is pretty extraordinary that through the mechanisms of the European Financial Stability fund etc the other EU members have effectively bought up so much of Greece's debt and allowed a country which had no effective access to the market to operate relatively normally for so long. And their response was to elect Syriza. Truly no good deed goes unpunished.
    Given their predicament, is it any surprise they voted for Syriza (not that it will do any good?)
    If Syriza had gone for the latest (very generous) deal on offer to Greece, arguably that decision would have been largely vindicated.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,987

    DavidL said:

    This piece on the Greece situation contains an interesting graphic on Greek debt confirming that pretty much 2/3 of its external debt is now owed to the ECB/EZ and another 10% to the IMF.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33307263

    It also emphasises that the level of support this country has had from the other EZ members is truly stunning. They really have a cheek and are deeply deluded. Foreign Banks are at 1% which indicates why people are being sanguine about the systemic risks of default.

    Will the Bank closures finally bring it home to the Greeks (their current leadership is past praying for) that they have chosen the wrong path? How on earth do they get back on track? I fear that it is going to be very difficult to reverse this. Like the start of WW1 referred to yesterday this now has its own momentum and options are few even if the Greeks wanted to cave in.

    You say it is external debt but if the Eurozone has any coherence, surely it should be internal debt?
    Its external debt as for the other EC countries its seen as external. They haven't quite grasp that in a single currency countries are no longer sovereign countries but really not much more than US states..

    As for the money being owed to EC countries, all that has changed in the past 5 years is the debt has moved from EC banks to the countries the banks are part of... That at least means that bank management isn't embarrassed about their stupid lending, and government's don't have to bail out their badly supervised banks..

    The more I read about the original deal the more obvious the ECB stitch up becomes.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,397
    On topic, does TSE and/or Ladbrokes have a time machine?

    IMHO, it's Osborne's to lose. The biggest risk to him is the likely failure of Cameron's EU renegotiation strategy, because he'll be knee-deep in it.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited June 2015
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This piece on the Greece situation contains an interesting graphic on Greek debt confirming that pretty much 2/3 of its external debt is now owed to the ECB/EZ and another 10% to the IMF.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33307263

    It also emphasises that the level of support this country has had from the other EZ members is truly stunning. They really have a cheek and are deeply deluded. Foreign Banks are at 1% which indicates why people are being sanguine about the systemic risks of default.

    Will the Bank closures finally bring it home to the Greeks (their current leadership is past praying for) that they have chosen the wrong path? How on earth do they get back on track? I fear that it is going to be very difficult to reverse this. Like the start of WW1 referred to yesterday this now has its own momentum and options are few even if the Greeks wanted to cave in.

    You say it is external debt but if the Eurozone has any coherence, surely it should be internal debt?
    As the Spartans would point out the key word there is "if".

    But it is pretty extraordinary that through the mechanisms of the European Financial Stability fund etc the other EU members have effectively bought up so much of Greece's debt and allowed a country which had no effective access to the market to operate relatively normally for so long. And their response was to elect Syriza. Truly no good deed goes unpunished.
    Given their predicament, is it any surprise they voted for Syriza (not that it will do any good?)
    The bail out isn't helping the Greeks. Its helping their creditors cover up their appalling commercial decisions whilst introducing boat loads of moral hazard. The bail out doesnt help Greece improve itself, Its like the One Ring:
    A mortal, Frodo, who keeps one of the Great Rings, does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he merely continues, until as last every minute is a weariness.
    If you owed your bank an huge amount you had no realistic chance of paying off, but rather than letting you go bankrupt and starting again, the bank manager, a shareholder in his bank, offered to lend you just enough money to make your loan payments, so that he would not have the embarrassment of facing his directors and explaining his poor commercial decision in lending you the money, while you racked up addition debt to him, would you think it was a good deal, or in fact in any way acceptable ?
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited June 2015
    It won't matter how you vote I will choose the next deputy leader says Burnham and it will be a woman.

    Labour leadership frontrunner Andy Burnham has promised to appoint a woman as his deputy, even if the party elects a man.
    The shadow health secretary plans to ditch a long-standing convention which has seen the deputy leader standing in on big occasions, including at Prime Minister's Questions.
    Instead he has vowed to appoint a Shadow First Secretary of State who will go up against current title holder George Osborne, who is now David Cameron's deputy PM in all but name.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3142253/Andy-Burnham-choose-woman-Osborne-Deputy-PM-party-elects-man.html#ixzz3eQc0rxdq
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited June 2015
    Moses_ said:

    It won't matter how you vote I will choose the next deputy leader says Burnham and it will be a woman.

    Labour leadership frontrunner Andy Burnham has promised to appoint a woman as his deputy, even if the party elects a man.
    The shadow health secretary plans to ditch a long-standing convention which has seen the deputy leader standing in on big occasions, including at Prime Minister's Questions.
    Instead he has vowed to appoint a Shadow First Secretary of State who will go up against current title holder George Osborne, who is now David Cameron's deputy PM in all but name.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3142253/Andy-Burnham-choose-woman-Osborne-Deputy-PM-party-elects-man.html#ixzz3eQc0rxdq

    So he will select a deputy leader, based on genitals not talent , but then give the bulk of what that job entails to someone else. So not just tokenism, but token tokenism ;)
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311
    Moses_ said:

    It won't matter how you vote I will choose the next deputy leader says Burnham and it will be a woman.

    Labour leadership frontrunner Andy Burnham has promised to appoint a woman as his deputy, even if the party elects a man.
    The shadow health secretary plans to ditch a long-standing convention which has seen the deputy leader standing in on big occasions, including at Prime Minister's Questions.
    Instead he has vowed to appoint a Shadow First Secretary of State who will go up against current title holder George Osborne, who is now David Cameron's deputy PM in all but name.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3142253/Andy-Burnham-choose-woman-Osborne-Deputy-PM-party-elects-man.html#ixzz3eQc0rxdq

    That actually makes quite a lot of sense. The present idea of having a deputy elected independently of the leader who could quite easily be someone that the leader does not even want to speak to is just plain daft. I mean the favourite is Tom Watson. Who would choose Watson to cover their back and provide support? It's crazy.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited June 2015
    Well this is one of the points that was being made last night that lenders bare responsibilities also. The EU has bent the rules so often or turned a blind eye to breaches so regularly their is no longer any discipline in the system. The ultimate goal to them is and must always be keep the show on the road. That is to achieve a single federal state of Europe under an unelected President.

    It is this blind ambition, it's ability to constantly ignore the will of the people through referenda and its corrupt approach to financing the entire circus that will be their undoing. Greece has simply "slipped a stitch" within the pattern but it is enough for the whole charade to start to unravel and not before time
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Why are Labour appointing another cry baby as leader..
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    DavidL said:

    Moses_ said:

    It won't matter how you vote I will choose the next deputy leader says Burnham and it will be a woman.

    Labour leadership frontrunner Andy Burnham has promised to appoint a woman as his deputy, even if the party elects a man.
    The shadow health secretary plans to ditch a long-standing convention which has seen the deputy leader standing in on big occasions, including at Prime Minister's Questions.
    Instead he has vowed to appoint a Shadow First Secretary of State who will go up against current title holder George Osborne, who is now David Cameron's deputy PM in all but name.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3142253/Andy-Burnham-choose-woman-Osborne-Deputy-PM-party-elects-man.html#ixzz3eQc0rxdq

    That actually makes quite a lot of sense. The present idea of having a deputy elected independently of the leader who could quite easily be someone that the leader does not even want to speak to is just plain daft. I mean the favourite is Tom Watson. Who would choose Watson to cover their back and provide support? It's crazy.
    I agree who would give it to any of them but this is more fundamental. Are even Labour now realising there is such a lack of talent in their ranks they have to "parachute " someone in for the difficult questions? That despite the party voting for a specific person to do the job?

    It's basically a ships captain bypassing the 1st lieutenant and giving control of the ship to the lookout instead when the Admiralty had already officially appointed the No1 as the next in command.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Indigo said:


    The bail out isn't helping the Greeks. Its helping their creditors cover up their appalling commercial decisions whilst introducing boat loads of moral hazard. The bail out doesnt help Greece improve itself, Its like the One Ring:

    A mortal, Frodo, who keeps one of the Great Rings, does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he merely continues, until as last every minute is a weariness.
    If you owed your bank an huge amount you had no realistic chance of paying off, but rather than letting you go bankrupt and starting again, the bank manager, a shareholder in his bank, offered to lend you just enough money to make your loan payments, so that he would not have the embarrassment of facing his directors and explaining his poor commercial decision in lending you the money, while you racked up addition debt to him, would you think it was a good deal, or in fact in any way acceptable ?

    Hash Tag Dr Boom.

    Quite.
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    JohnLoony said:

    Why is the betting slip dated "11/09/15"?

    First thing I noticed too.

    I don't think Jeremy Hunt has much chance of being next PM, will be between Boris, Osborne and Javid.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311
    Moses_ said:

    DavidL said:

    Moses_ said:

    It won't matter how you vote I will choose the next deputy leader says Burnham and it will be a woman.

    Labour leadership frontrunner Andy Burnham has promised to appoint a woman as his deputy, even if the party elects a man.
    The shadow health secretary plans to ditch a long-standing convention which has seen the deputy leader standing in on big occasions, including at Prime Minister's Questions.
    Instead he has vowed to appoint a Shadow First Secretary of State who will go up against current title holder George Osborne, who is now David Cameron's deputy PM in all but name.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3142253/Andy-Burnham-choose-woman-Osborne-Deputy-PM-party-elects-man.html#ixzz3eQc0rxdq

    That actually makes quite a lot of sense. The present idea of having a deputy elected independently of the leader who could quite easily be someone that the leader does not even want to speak to is just plain daft. I mean the favourite is Tom Watson. Who would choose Watson to cover their back and provide support? It's crazy.
    I agree who would give it to any of them but this is more fundamental. Are even Labour now realising there is such a lack of talent in their ranks they have to "parachute " someone in for the difficult questions? That despite the party voting for a specific person to do the job?

    It's basically a ships captain bypassing the 1st lieutenant and giving control of the ship to the lookout instead when the Admiralty had already officially appointed the No1 as the next in command.
    The paucity of talent in Labour's ranks is such that they cannot afford to waste it.

    FWIW if Burnham wins I would not be at all surprised to see Yvette Cooper appointed to the shadow chancellor/deputy PM role. She is lacking charisma but she is numerate and probably the smartest Labour have available. If that means she takes some of the responsibilities that would otherwise fall to Watson that can only be a good thing.
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Moses_ said:

    Well this is one of the points that was being made last night that lenders bare responsibilities also. The EU has bent the rules so often or turned a blind eye to breaches so regularly their is no longer any discipline in the system. The ultimate goal to them is and must always be keep the show on the road. That is to achieve a single federal state of Europe under an unelected President.

    It is this blind ambition, it's ability to constantly ignore the will of the people through referenda and its corrupt approach to financing the entire circus that will be their undoing. Greece has simply "slipped a stitch" within the pattern but it is enough for the whole charade to start to unravel and not before time

    I agree totally in that the EU will stop at nothing to achieve their ultimate goal.

    The only way this will fall apart is when the likes of Merkel gets voted out by her pissed off people, and the individual nation leaders realise they either have to go against the will of their people or finally draw a line under the whole grotesque project.
  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    Hunt - good egg, he de-weaponised the NHS and because he is mild mannered the journos and opposition can't quite put him in the mould they want to cast him in.

    Trying to remember the name of the last "good egg" that became a Conservative PM. Didn't he become a major embarrassment to everyone? :-)
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    edited June 2015
    I thought the date thing strange too although I'd be willing to bet big money at v short odds that betting slip doesn't belong to TSE
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    Indigo said:

    Moses_ said:

    It won't matter how you vote I will choose the next deputy leader says Burnham and it will be a woman.

    Labour leadership frontrunner Andy Burnham has promised to appoint a woman as his deputy, even if the party elects a man.
    The shadow health secretary plans to ditch a long-standing convention which has seen the deputy leader standing in on big occasions, including at Prime Minister's Questions.
    Instead he has vowed to appoint a Shadow First Secretary of State who will go up against current title holder George Osborne, who is now David Cameron's deputy PM in all but name.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3142253/Andy-Burnham-choose-woman-Osborne-Deputy-PM-party-elects-man.html#ixzz3eQc0rxdq

    So he will select a deputy leader, based on genitals not talent , but then give the bulk of what that job entails to someone else. So not just tokenism, but token tokenism ;)
    Morning! Even Andy Burnham understands that Tom Watson is not someone who will appeal to the voters of middle England. If he really has balls he could do a lot worse than appoint Kendall to the job and set her up as his successor - much as Obama did when he appointed Hilary SoS in 2009.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Lenders acting recklessly bear some responsibility, but previous governments still decided to act the way they did and the new ones seemingly in line with the wishes of the people appear to be making things worse, so I can no longer be mad at the lenders first. The Greeks have had time to if not fix this, as it I'd a massive problem, then stabilise things at least and they haven't. This far into a crisis even against uncooperative backdrops that can be no ones fault but themselves.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    On topic, a very funny comment from Hunt in the Commons.

    The Next PM market is full of value, as the favourite Boris has no chance. Nothing at all to do with my massive lay on him when he was almost at evens.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Good morning, my fellow Gallifreyans.

    People ought to be judged on the content of their character, not the content of their trousers. Burnham's an imbecile. I agree Watson's a full-blown oaf, but disregarding him because he's a fallopian-deprived ape [even if elected] is both sexist and undemocratic.

    I am unconvinced by Hunt and have never bought him as a contender to be leader next. Against Osborne, Javid, or (the two-frontrunners), Patel and Greening he doesn't stand up.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I'm scouring my betting accounts checking up on some old Grexit bets - slightly concerned about the rules on some - what if the Greek govt issues some IOUs for pensions - will that count ?

    Tthere could be endless fudge about whether they are in or out - and they might use a dollarized Euro for a while.
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    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    edited June 2015
    JohnLoony said:

    Why is the betting slip dated "11/09/15"?

    It could be from 2011, and be in YY/MM/DD order, where
    YY = Year
    MM = Month
    DD = Day

    (It sorts better on databases)

    ergo, 15th September 2011 = "11/09/15"
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    TGOHF said:

    I'm scouring my betting accounts checking up on some old Grexit bets - slightly concerned about the rules on some - what if the Greek govt issues some IOUs for pensions - will that count ?

    Tthere could be endless fudge about whether they are in or out - and they might use a dollarized Euro for a while.

    Yes, there's also lots of vested interests wanting to use unusual language or call something by a different name to avoid their own embarrassment, eg the IMF claiming that there's no 'default' even though they didn't get paid. A minefield for bookies and punters alike.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    edited June 2015
    The betslips look fine now, but a certain Evens shot at the time is a non runner now..
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:

    I'm scouring my betting accounts checking up on some old Grexit bets - slightly concerned about the rules on some - what if the Greek govt issues some IOUs for pensions - will that count ?

    Tthere could be endless fudge about whether they are in or out - and they might use a dollarized Euro for a while.

    Yes, there's also lots of vested interests wanting to use unusual language or call something by a different name to avoid their own embarrassment, eg the IMF claiming that there's no 'default' even though they didn't get paid. A minefield for bookies and punters alike.
    Jamie Angus ‏@grvlx001 11m11 minutes ago Walthamstow, London
    Greece is already 'not a full member of the Euro' because of capital controls, says @Peston #r4today
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    I must say Hunt is one of those politicians I forget about completely when he's not on screen, and I struggle to recall anything about him, though I've also never recalled any gaffes of his either. I suppose he could sneak up on us and wow everyone in a leadership contest, unexpected candidate.
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    DavidL said:

    Moses_ said:

    DavidL said:

    Moses_ said:

    It won't matter how you vote I will choose the next deputy leader says Burnham and it will be a woman.

    Labour leadership frontrunner Andy Burnham has promised to appoint a woman as his deputy, even if the party elects a man.
    The shadow health secretary plans to ditch a long-standing convention which has seen the deputy leader standing in on big occasions, including at Prime Minister's Questions.
    Instead he has vowed to appoint a Shadow First Secretary of State who will go up against current title holder George Osborne, who is now David Cameron's deputy PM in all but name.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3142253/Andy-Burnham-choose-woman-Osborne-Deputy-PM-party-elects-man.html#ixzz3eQc0rxdq

    That actually makes quite a lot of sense. The present idea of having a deputy elected independently of the leader who could quite easily be someone that the leader does not even want to speak to is just plain daft. I mean the favourite is Tom Watson. Who would choose Watson to cover their back and provide support? It's crazy.
    I agree who would give it to any of them but this is more fundamental. Are even Labour now realising there is such a lack of talent in their ranks they have to "parachute " someone in for the difficult questions? That despite the party voting for a specific person to do the job?

    It's basically a ships captain bypassing the 1st lieutenant and giving control of the ship to the lookout instead when the Admiralty had already officially appointed the No1 as the next in command.
    The paucity of talent in Labour's ranks is such that they cannot afford to waste it.

    FWIW if Burnham wins I would not be at all surprised to see Yvette Cooper appointed to the shadow chancellor/deputy PM role. She is lacking charisma but she is numerate and probably the smartest Labour have available. If that means she takes some of the responsibilities that would otherwise fall to Watson that can only be a good thing.
    Then Don't be surprised if every time she stands up she is met with jaunts from the government benches of the B Team and Labour frightened to put up the deputy.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Is any one else having problems typing into the site this morning?

    Remarkable pictures on Sky of the local Tunisians chasing down the gunman.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    edited June 2015
    Disraeli said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Why is the betting slip dated "11/09/15"?

    It could be from 2011, and be in YY/MM/DD order, where
    YY = Year
    MM = Month
    DD = Day

    (It sorts better on databases)

    ergo, 15th September 2011 = "11/09/15"
    Ah yes that could be it, although then the line ''a betting slip from a few days ago' seems odd

    As I say, you would think from reading the thread header that it was TSE's bet wouldn't you? But I don't think so
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Disraeli said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Why is the betting slip dated "11/09/15"?

    It could be from 2011, and be in YY/MM/DD order, where
    YY = Year
    MM = Month
    DD = Day

    (It sorts better on databases)

    ergo, 15th September 2011 = "11/09/15"
    Why? Genuine question.

    I am setting up an Excel database at the moment using the normal DD/MM/YY. I am more concerned that users will confuse the dates ( as on here this morning) when they come to use it?
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Definitely have a big problem with typing in text box this morning
    Have to refresh every time I post
    Can't delete backwards of place cursor in the text to change
    Typing in and nothing appearing within comment box

    Is it the site or is it my IPad. Could well be my IPad
  • Options
    Looks like the end point of voting socialist for decades may be arriving today in Greece. You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Hunt does not have 'Presence' - that almost indefinable quality that is so vital for leaders. Cameron does have this, but cannot think of any other potential leaders in any of the parties who has this - except Boris.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Strictly a trading bet only. He has the air of a compère of Escape To The Country. A potential Prime Minister needs visible steel as well as charm (I'm aware that he might have steel, but it isn't visible).
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Patrick said:

    Looks like the end point of voting socialist for decades may be arriving today in Greece.

    Now that is a longshot - 100/1

  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Jara gets fine and 3 match ban.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33306869

    Could his action be classified as a sexual assault? Suarez's biting had a longer ban, but I do wonder if Jara's behaviour was premeditated, an attempt the forward sent off.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Financier said:

    Hunt does not have 'Presence' - that almost indefinable quality that is so vital for leaders. Cameron does have this, but cannot think of any other potential leaders in any of the parties who has this - except Boris.

    It is the absence of "presence" that makes the Labour leadership race so remarkable...
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Moses_ said:

    Definitely have a big problem with typing in text box this morning
    Have to refresh every time I post
    Can't delete backwards of place cursor in the text to change
    Typing in and nothing appearing within comment box

    Is it the site or is it my IPad. Could well be my IPad

    I can barely use my iPad to post on here, some may say that's a good thing.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    isam said:

    Disraeli said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Why is the betting slip dated "11/09/15"?

    It could be from 2011, and be in YY/MM/DD order, where
    YY = Year
    MM = Month
    DD = Day

    (It sorts better on databases)

    ergo, 15th September 2011 = "11/09/15"
    Ah yes that could be it, although then the line ''a betting slip from a few days ago' seems odd

    As I say, you would think from reading the thread header that it was TSE's bet wouldn't you? But I don't think so
    Or it is an arbitrary date three months in the future because whoever set up Ladbroke's flaky systems did not properly allow for betting on events whose date of occurrence is unknown. They need to put a date there, but they don't know when the next leadership election will occur.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Moses_ said:

    Disraeli said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Why is the betting slip dated "11/09/15"?

    It could be from 2011, and be in YY/MM/DD order, where
    YY = Year
    MM = Month
    DD = Day

    (It sorts better on databases)

    ergo, 15th September 2011 = "11/09/15"
    Why? Genuine question.

    I am setting up an Excel database at the moment using the normal DD/MM/YY. I am more concerned that users will confuse the dates ( as on here this morning) when they come to use it?
    2015-06-29 is the way to go for sortable and unambiguous dates.
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    isam said:

    Disraeli said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Why is the betting slip dated "11/09/15"?

    It could be from 2011, and be in YY/MM/DD order, where
    YY = Year
    MM = Month
    DD = Day

    (It sorts better on databases)

    ergo, 15th September 2011 = "11/09/15"
    Ah yes that could be it, although then the line ''a betting slip from a few days ago' seems odd

    As I say, you would think from reading the thread header that it was TSE's bet wouldn't you? But I don't think so
    Or it is an arbitrary date three months in the future because whoever set up Ladbroke's flaky systems did not properly allow for betting on events whose date of occurrence is unknown. They need to put a date there, but they don't know when the next leadership election will occur.
    The time is 22:00 which seems a bit odd as well.
  • Options
    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    edited June 2015
    Moses_ said:

    Disraeli said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Why is the betting slip dated "11/09/15"?

    It could be from 2011, and be in YY/MM/DD order, where
    YY = Year
    MM = Month
    DD = Day

    (It sorts better on databases)

    ergo, 15th September 2011 = "11/09/15"
    Why? Genuine question.

    I am setting up an Excel database at the moment using the normal DD/MM/YY. I am more concerned that users will confuse the dates ( as on here this morning) when they come to use it?
    It sorts better when the date is held in TEXT format, rather than DATE format.
    Databases are often populated the lazy way - which is to import some data from outside and to just call every field TEXT, instead of its proper type (NUMERIC, CURRENCY, DATE etc).
    An example:
    - you have three records which each contain date, amount and name (all defined as TEXT)
    - the date format is dd/mm/yy,
    - you sort by date then you will see this order.
    11/09/15,100,J Bloggs
    15/03/14,90,M Mouse
    20/02/13,80,E Miliband

    If you put them into an Excel table, and define the date field as DATE, then you would see the correct order.
    20/02/13,80,E Miliband
    15/03/14,90,M Mouse
    11/09/15,100,J Bloggs

    Moreover, you can define how the date is displayed on screen, so 20/02/13 could show as "20 Feb 2013" if that is what you want.

    OPEN OFFER TO SITE MEMBERS
    I used to do Excel work professionally (VBA macros, pivot tables, charts etc). If you need any help drop me a line and I will be happy to help free-of-charge, if I can.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited June 2015
    Its a conspiracy..it has to be ;)
  • Options
    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    kle4 said:

    I must say Hunt is one of those politicians I forget about completely when he's not on screen, and I struggle to recall anything about him, though I've also never recalled any gaffes of his either. I suppose he could sneak up on us and wow everyone in a leadership contest, unexpected candidate.

    Almost decapitating a member of the public with a bell. Ish.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I'd forgotten that! Campanology is surprisingly hazardous as a spectator sport :smirk:

    kle4 said:

    I must say Hunt is one of those politicians I forget about completely when he's not on screen, and I struggle to recall anything about him, though I've also never recalled any gaffes of his either. I suppose he could sneak up on us and wow everyone in a leadership contest, unexpected candidate.

    Almost decapitating a member of the public with a bell. Ish.
  • Options
    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106

    isam said:

    Disraeli said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Why is the betting slip dated "11/09/15"?

    It could be from 2011, and be in YY/MM/DD order, where
    YY = Year
    MM = Month
    DD = Day

    (It sorts better on databases)

    ergo, 15th September 2011 = "11/09/15"
    Ah yes that could be it, although then the line ''a betting slip from a few days ago' seems odd

    As I say, you would think from reading the thread header that it was TSE's bet wouldn't you? But I don't think so
    Or it is an arbitrary date three months in the future because whoever set up Ladbroke's flaky systems did not properly allow for betting on events whose date of occurrence is unknown. They need to put a date there, but they don't know when the next leadership election will occur.
    Probably the likely explanation. They selected a date in line with the autumn labour conference.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Jeremy Hunt? – A name easily forgotten from one year to the next. As I’m sure it will be again when the Tories go looking for a new leader.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    kle4 said:

    I must say Hunt is one of those politicians I forget about completely when he's not on screen, and I struggle to recall anything about him, though I've also never recalled any gaffes of his either. I suppose he could sneak up on us and wow everyone in a leadership contest, unexpected candidate.

    That's probably the general public view too - they'll certainly be expecting it to be Osborne or Boris. Osborne is the obvious continuity candidate if things are going splendidly, Boris the obvious "time for a change" man if they're not (he is certainly able to position himself in whatever critical role is required). Being unknown is a real problem in leadership contests, as Kendall is finding - people struggle to imagine a (to their eyes) newcomer suddenly in Number 10. Javid has the same issue to some extent - I'd guess that 15% of the public know something about him, vs. 10% for Hunt.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    It's hard to imagine the author of this piece has not been reading PB...
    There is a strain of Scottish nationalism – present in all nationalisms, if you look closely enough – that revels in outrage. It feasts on slights real and imagined and gorges itself on the psychological junk food of grievance. No offence is left untaken because to do so would disrupt the pleasures of a siege mentality.

    But to frame every crass joke and snide remark as a hate crime – as one writer did of the Economist’s sneering ‘Skintland’ cover – is culturally unhealthy. It is a nationalism that, having lost at the ballot box, now seeks victory in the dark recesses of fear and suspicion. See, we told you, it says. They hate us. They’re laughing at us. Are you just going to sit back and take it? Have you no dignity?

    It is the replication of the latter tic, the conflation of nationalism with the nation itself, that is particularly troubling here. The implicit assumption that criticism of the SNP is “talking down Scotland” is present in some responses to Bell and Massie and present to a degree that should make us uneasy. Believing you have the country’s best interests at heart is politics; believing you are the country is religion.
    http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/analysis/313293-analysis-stephen-daisley-on-nationalism-and-the-politics-of-outrage/
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    Disraeli said:

    Moses_ said:

    Disraeli said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Why is the betting slip dated "11/09/15"?

    It could be from 2011, and be in YY/MM/DD order, where
    YY = Year
    MM = Month
    DD = Day

    (It sorts better on databases)

    ergo, 15th September 2011 = "11/09/15"
    Why? Genuine question.

    I am setting up an Excel database at the moment using the normal DD/MM/YY. I am more concerned that users will confuse the dates ( as on here this morning) when they come to use it?
    It sorts better when the date is held in TEXT format, rather than DATE format.
    Databases are often populated the lazy way - which is to import some data from outside and to just call every field TEXT, instead of its proper type (NUMERIC, CURRENCY, DATE etc).
    An example:
    - you have three records which each contain date, amount and name (all defined as TEXT)
    - the date format is dd/mm/yy,
    - you sort by date then you will see this order.
    11/09/15,100,J Bloggs
    15/03/14,90,M Mouse
    20/02/13,80,E Miliband

    If you put them into an Excel table, and define the date field as DATE, then you would see the correct order.
    20/02/13,80,E Miliband
    15/03/14,90,M Mouse
    11/09/15,100,J Bloggs

    Moreover, you can define how the date is displayed on screen, so 20/02/13 could show as "20 Feb 2013" if that is what you want.

    OPEN OFFER TO SITE MEMBERS
    I used to do Excel work professionally (VBA macros, pivot tables, charts etc). If you need any help drop me a line and I will be happy to help free-of-charge, if I can.
    Some useful tips and a really kind offer, thanks Lord Beaconsfield.

    I too used to get a 'consultant's tan' (white with a feint grey grid) for a living - every-now and again I still have nightmares that the models I have made and left in operation in various workplaces come back to haunt me...



  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,708
    terrorism 'expert' on bbc 5live just compared UKIP with ISIS..
  • Options
    JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 378
    Scott P

    "It's hard to imagine the author of this piece has not been reading PB..."

    It's hard to imagine that the comments don't refer with greater accuracy to British nationalism, a nationalism which many do not recognise in themselves, even while they make political speeches against the backdrop of a Union flag.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited June 2015
    OT

    Going back to the 2015GE, we heard quite a bit about the almost undetected (by many) of the Cons 40/40 seat strategy - 40 to attack and 40 to defend.

    Also they had to 101 strategy of seats where the Cons candidates would receive little to no support - seats where they thought they would not win or win easily. Have now made a spreadsheet of these to look at how this strategy turned out and how the majorities changed.

    These seats were:

    London: 19: All Labour
    Eastern: 10: 6 Cons; 2 LD, 2LAB
    S East: 4: All Cons
    S West: 4: 2 LAB; 1LD; 1 Con
    E Mids: 8: 7 LAB; 1 Con
    W Mids:17: 15 LAB; 2 Cons
    N West: 7: 5 LAB; 1 Con; 1 LD
    N East: 6: 5 LAB 1 LD
    Yorks & H: 9: 7 LAB; 2 Cons
    Wales: 7: 6 LAB; 1 PC
    Scots: 10

    Ignoring the Scottish seats altogether, all the LD seats except Norfolk N were lost to Labour.
    The one and perhaps surprising Con gain from Labour is Plymouth Moor View. All the other seats were held by the incumbent parties.

    However, depending on how the LDs split and if UK had an impact, the regions did vary for these 101 seats. In London majorities were often doubled or more except for Eltham. In the West Mids, Labour majorities increased except for Stoke on Trent where they declined.

    I can pass on this spreadsheet to TSE if anyone would like a copy.


  • Options
    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Financier said:


    I can pass on this spreadsheet to TSE if anyone would like a copy.

    Ta.
    I've got a spreadsheet with 2015 results (Votes, percentages) and comparable 2010 results if anyone wants a copy. (Not what I would give to a client, but the data is there!). If anyone wants a copy please shout.
  • Options
    LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651

    terrorism 'expert' on bbc 5live just compared UKIP with ISIS..

    Seriously? What did they say?

  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,708
    LucyJones said:

    terrorism 'expert' on bbc 5live just compared UKIP with ISIS..

    Seriously? What did they say?

    She seemed more concerned about the rise of 'corresponding' views on the right, including UKIP.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    LucyJones said:

    terrorism 'expert' on bbc 5live just compared UKIP with ISIS..

    Seriously? What did they say?

    "ISIS, unlike really dangerous terrorist organisations such as UKIP, is only committed to converting the whole world to their brand of Islam and killing non-believers."
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2015

    terrorism 'expert' on bbc 5live just compared UKIP with ISIS..

    Can't have been a "terrorist" expert, as the BBC doesn't know what a terrorist / terrorism is and thus won't claim any attack by rather upset and possibly extremist individuals as such.
  • Options
    LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    terrorism 'expert' on bbc 5live just compared UKIP with ISIS..

    Seriously? What did they say?

    "ISIS, unlike really dangerous terrorist organisations such as UKIP, is only committed to converting the whole world to their brand of Islam and killing non-believers."
    I bet the speaker thought they were being really "progressive".
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Although the Tories didn't take too much of a hit on the NHS this time, partly because the shrieking didn't match the reality i.e. the claims were the NHS was minutes from breakdown and being totally sold off.

    Although the Tories say they will increase funding (from where, who knows) the NHS will always be a blackhole that money will disappear faster than you can put it in. Add in immigration and birth rates bolstering our already aging population, there will be at some point a breaking point where either some services are no longer free / provided by the NHS or the waiting lists become extremely long.

    It is ticking time bomb, like return of interest rates to historical norms. When that happens, nobody knows.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,397
    edited June 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    terrorism 'expert' on bbc 5live just compared UKIP with ISIS..

    Seriously? What did they say?

    "ISIS, unlike really dangerous terrorist organisations such as UKIP, is only committed to converting the whole world to their brand of Islam and killing non-believers."
    I think it was Nick Cohen who said that there is a certain breed of self-hating British left-winger who would blame their own country and the Right for all of the world's ills, and refuse to lift a finger to fight, even if attacks were taking place in their own back yard.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OT

    For those wanting a novel (or perhaps not novel) experience during the forecast heatwave:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33286120
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007

    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    terrorism 'expert' on bbc 5live just compared UKIP with ISIS..

    Seriously? What did they say?

    "ISIS, unlike really dangerous terrorist organisations such as UKIP, is only committed to converting the whole world to their brand of Islam and killing non-believers."
    I think it was Nick Cohen who said that there is a certain breed of self-hating British left-winger who would blame their own country and the Right for all of the world's ills, and refuse to lift a finger to fight, even if attacks were taking place in their own back yard.
    His What's Left was a very interesting read.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    CPS TO PROSECUTE JANNER:
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Urquhart, good to hear.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    edited June 2015

    CPS TO PROSECUTE JANNER:

    Good.

    Every man when accused of wrongdoing deserves their day in court.

    This'll all be sub judice now so that'll be my last comment on the matter.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Jeremy Hunt has about as much chance of becoming Tory Leader as Stephen Dorrell did in 1997. In any case your premise is also wrong, a Comres poll at the end of April had the NHS as one of the few areas Labour were ahead of the Tories
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/26/labour-ahead-of-tories-nhs-poll-ed-miliband-health-service-policies
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Whenever I see the words "SLAB" and "fight", in common with many people who follow Scottish politics, this conjures up the image of SLAB fighting with it's main enemy, itself. Is this an invitation to a to a members only "stairheid rammy" at SLAB's office in Bath Street ?

    https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/615437081368592384
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    CPS TO PROSECUTE JANNER:

    This is going to end in a proverbial car crash of epic proportions.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    Re Grexit:

    There is an excellent piece from Redburn today on Grexit and what we know and don't know, and how we proceed from here. (Like all the best research, it's not pushing a point of view, it's just telling you the facts.)

    The basic points made are (1) Grexit needn't be a disaster for Greece, but it needs to be handled properly; (2) it is unclear what the priority of the ECB is - preventing contagion or keeping Greece in the Euro?; (3) the QE programme means that it is unlikely that there is any near-term impact on Spain, Portugal or Italy's ability to fund themselves.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Ydoethur Osborne is manoeuvering to succeed Cameron in terms of appointments, patronage etc, Javid is an Osborne loyalist and will not challenge him

    I also thought Labour rules meant that if the leader was a man the Deputy had to be a woman, which is why Burnham-Creasy looks most likely
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    HYUFD said:

    Ydoethur Osborne is manoeuvering to succeed Cameron in terms of appointments, patronage etc, Javid is an Osborne loyalist and will not challenge him

    Indeed although Osborne has enough self-awareness to know that he might not be the ideal front man, and might prefer to be the power behind Javid's throne.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    edited June 2015
    HYUFD said:

    Ydoethur Osborne is manoeuvering to succeed Cameron in terms of appointments, patronage etc, Javid is an Osborne loyalist and will not challenge him

    I also thought Labour rules meant that if the leader was a man the Deputy had to be a woman, which is why Burnham-Creasy looks most likely

    This one came up on here before, the rules of sexism don't appear to apply when the elections are taking place simultaneously.

    It would surely make more sense in any case to elect first a leader, then a deputy to serve under them?
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    This brings home just how tough things are getting in Greece:

    https://twitter.com/michaelbirnbaum/status/615445128086470656
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079
    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ydoethur Osborne is manoeuvering to succeed Cameron in terms of appointments, patronage etc, Javid is an Osborne loyalist and will not challenge him

    Indeed although Osborne has enough self-awareness to know that he might not be the ideal front man, and might prefer to be the power behind Javid's throne.

    Osborne is a superior front man to Javid.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2015
    On topic: It's a very good bet at those odds. Jeremy Hunt is one of those politicians who are underestimated by the pundits but who is impressive when you look more closely. He has been a very successful Health Minister, in circumstances which were extremely difficult given the fallout from the botched Lansley reforms. And he is much tougher and wilier than you'd think from his emollient manner.

    Above all, if you're betting on this market, you do need to understand the dynamics. What will matter in the end is not who the party members would like as leader, but which of the two candidates offered to them they will prefer. What's more, MPs know that, so the choice which will be offered will be as much informed by the candidates MPs don't want as those they do (that, incidentally, was why IDS became leader: he was the 'Not Ken Clarke' candidate).

    So you really need to think about possible pairs of options in the final round. Just writing some possibilities down helps to clarify how unpredictable this could be:

    Osborne vs Boris
    May vs Boris
    May vs Osborne
    Javid vs Boris
    Javid vs May
    Javid vs Osborne
    Hunt vs Boris
    Hunt vs May
    Hunt vs Osborne
    Hunt vs Javid

    (There are more possibilities, of course: Phil Hammond, Owen Paterson..)

    In addition, the contest is at least two and probably more years away, and there's the small matter of the EU referendum to get through first. Jeremy Hunt and Sajid Javid have plenty of time to grow in stature and become better known.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079

    (that, incidentally, was why IDS became leader: he was the 'Not Ken Clarke' candidate.)

    Was he the 'Not Ken Clarke' candidate or the 'Not Michael Portillo' candidate? As Clarke was offered to the members I suggest it was the latter.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2015

    (that, incidentally, was why IDS became leader: he was the 'Not Ken Clarke' candidate.)

    Was he the 'Not Ken Clarke' candidate or the 'Not Michael Portillo' candidate? As Clarke was offered to the members I suggest it was the latter.
    Both. I meant that he was chosen by the members not because they wanted him, but because they didn't want Ken Clarke.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    edited June 2015
    Indigo I don't see why Javid is any better than Osborne, he is not particularly charismatic and has not been the second most powerful man in government, he has a better backstory than Cameron and Osborne, that is it, and he is also pretty rightwing, Osborne is slightly right of Cameron, Javid further right still
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Sandpit Indeed, though I could see Creasy winning after preferences
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079
    HYUFD said:

    Indigo I don't see why Javid is any better than Osborne, he is not particularly charismatic and has not been the second most powerful man in government, he has a better backstory than Cameron, that is it, and he is also pretty rightwing, Osborne is slightly right of Cameron, Javid further right still

    Osborne has two qualities which its easy to underestimate: self-awareness and a sense of humour. I wouldn't say the same about Javid.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Jeremy Hunt? – A name easily forgotten from one year to the next. As I’m sure it will be again when the Tories go looking for a new leader.

    You cannot forget Jeremy Hunt. Wasn't it James when we have won the election Naughtie who referred to Hunt as Jeremy C*** ??
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Alistair said:

    CPS TO PROSECUTE JANNER:

    This is going to end in a proverbial car crash of epic proportions.
    Why??
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