The [European Union] is a [Union] based on the rule of law, inasmuch as neither its member-States nor its institutions can avoid a review of the question whether the measures adopted by them are in conformity with the basic constitutional charter, the Treat[ies] (Parti Ecologiste Les Verts v European Parliament [1987] 2 CMLR 343, 371).
As some of the most spectacular violations of EU law since the Treaty of Rome seem imminent, never has this claim by the Court of Justice looked more hollow and absurd. The EU abides by the rule of law to the extent that an alcoholic is sober.
What would you suggest would be the best way to proceed?
If the ECB continues to offer ELS to Greek banks when the Greek state is in default, then it is in breach of its own rules.
Does it not therefore follow that the ECB rules are in breach of those laws if the require the bank to behave in a fashion which is unlawful ?
So the ECB should be required to give money to banks under all circumstances?
The ECB should follow the law. If the law requires actions to be reviewed by a court if requested then that is what it should do. Otherwise the law should be changed. It's a bit like politicians bitching about judges passing light sentences when they are only following sentencing guidelines set by politicians
The law is clear. If the Greek banks are insolvent, they must cut off funding. In fact, Jens Weidmann of the Bundesbank makes a very compelling case that raising the ELS limits was - in effect - monetary financing of deficits. And therefore should not be allowed.
Every bank is insolvent, hence fractional reserve banking.
I think you are referring to the duration mismatch: lend long (a mortgage) and borrow short (your current account).
That is not, technically, insolvency, although it does mean that bank runs can rapidly destroy otherwise healthy banks.
Insolvency refers simply to the value of a banks assets being less than the value of its liabilities. In the event of default, then the value of bonds held by the Greek banks is, if not actually zero, then very close to it. The value of the banks' assets is now less than their liabilities.
'The law is clear. If the Greek banks are insolvent, they must cut off funding. In fact, Jens Weidmann of the Bundesbank makes a very compelling case that raising the ELS limits was - in effect - monetary financing of deficits. And therefore should not be allowed.'
With the EU's ideology at stake do you really think they will follow the rule book ?
O/T We are looking for a last minute holiday. Has anyone except Big John Owls got a good idea?
Rhodes? Remember to bring a suitcase of Euros.
There are a surprisingly large number of Greek holidays available. Maybe something to do with the idea that the airport staff won't turn up for work if the government tries to pay them in drachma.
Also a lot of Turkish holidays. Nothing to do with it bordering on Iraq and being full of Muslims of course.
I am presuming that the holidays in Tunisia just haven't been taken down yet.
Honestly, you need a Masters in geopolitics before you get a bit of sun these days.
Dont ask me.
We may have a short break on the East coast of Scotland this week
Blimey from Islamic Terrorists to Scottish Nationalists, you really do like going to places with nutty extremists.
You are most certainly going to rue the day with that comment.
Wait until you see the Scotland thread going up tomorrow, I don't kick the Scot Nats Hornets' nest as much as give it a colossus wedgie, kick it in the knackers and say Haha you Nats are losers.
That's proper fighting talk - what time are you planning on posting it ? - need to make sure I'm at the computer. Do I need to wear my kilt and apply full body war paint ?
Probably tomorrow afternoon 1/2pm.
Might get bumped because of events.
Great, I'll keep an eye out for it and be ready to respond !!
It is the first of two Scotland threads. Both should be humdingers.
Even better !!
I note we have a couple of jokers on tonight, in the spirit of keeping the mood light hearted - my favourite Indyref joke:
" Why did Scotsman start wearing kilts? - Because the sheep had all got wise to the sound of a fly zipper being pulled down."
'The law is clear. If the Greek banks are insolvent, they must cut off funding. In fact, Jens Weidmann of the Bundesbank makes a very compelling case that raising the ELS limits was - in effect - monetary financing of deficits. And therefore should not be allowed.'
With the EU's ideology at stake do you really think they will follow the rule book ?
I think the people at the heart of the Eurozone want the Eurozone to continue. It is the nature of organisations to seek to perpetuate themselves, even when such a continuation is in no one's interests.
From this perspective, the best outcome is that Greece accepts the will of the troika, and stays in the family. The second best outcome is that Greece "flames out" and exits the Eurozone in such a mess that others (Spain, Portugal, etc.) are discouraged from going down that path. The worst outcome, therefore, is that Greece leaves and becomes an enormous success.
The real nightmare for the Eurozone elite is a Greek Margaret Thatcher, who can tell unpleasant truths, and understands the importance of the free market, and who would lead Greece to success and prosperity outside of the Eurozone.
Alex Tsipiras is not that man. Alex Tsipiras is a man who counts Hugo Chavez and Mrs Kirchner as his economic heroes. Inside or outside the Eurozone that will be a disaster for Greece, as it has been for the people of Argentina and Venezuela.
O/T We are looking for a last minute holiday. Has anyone except Big John Owls got a good idea?
Rhodes? Remember to bring a suitcase of Euros.
There are a surprisingly large number of Greek holidays available. Maybe something to do with the idea that the airport staff won't turn up for work if the government tries to pay them in drachma.
Also a lot of Turkish holidays. Nothing to do with it bordering on Iraq and being full of Muslims of course.
I am presuming that the holidays in Tunisia just haven't been taken down yet.
Honestly, you need a Masters in geopolitics before you get a bit of sun these days.
Dont ask me.
We may have a short break on the East coast of Scotland this week
Blimey from Islamic Terrorists to Scottish Nationalists, you really do like going to places with nutty extremists.
You are most certainly going to rue the day with that comment.
Wait until you see the Scotland thread going up tomorrow, I don't kick the Scot Nats Hornets' nest as much as give it a colossus wedgie, kick it in the knackers and say Haha you Nats are losers.
That's proper fighting talk - what time are you planning on posting it ? - need to make sure I'm at the computer. Do I need to wear my kilt and apply full body war paint ?
Probably tomorrow afternoon 1/2pm.
Might get bumped because of events.
Great, I'll keep an eye out for it and be ready to respond !!
It is the first of two Scotland threads. Both should be humdingers.
Even better !!
I note we have a couple of jokers on tonight, in the spirit of keeping the mood light hearted - my favourite Indyref joke:
" Why did Scotsman start wearing kilts? - Because the sheep had all got wise to the sound of a fly zipper being pulled down."
Scotland - where men are men, and the sheep look worried.
Is anything worn under the kilt? Naye, it's all in perfect working order.
The real nightmare for the Eurozone elite is a Greek Margaret Thatcher, who can tell unpleasant truths, and understands the importance of the free market, and who would lead Greece to success and prosperity outside of the Eurozone.
The Eurozone fanatics would regard that as a nightmare. Everyone else would be happy for the Greeks.
Reading the troika proposals, there are plenty of things in there which are not 'austerity' or even controversial such as sorting our drug procurement policies and initiating tenders for mobile operators. Why is the Greek government not getting on with implementing this anyway?
LuckyGuy They do not own MI5 or MI6, but if we continue to cut our defence spending o while our national security needs continue to increase the gap has to be met from somewhere
SR The SNP actually got 56 seats
Utter madness. It isn't national security, it's national insecurity. It's being completely beholden to a declining empire determined to use its military advantage to achieve 'full spectrum dominance' whilst it still can - waging a bloody and futile war against historical inevitability. It's being shut in a burning building with no exit.
O/T We are looking for a last minute holiday. Has anyone except Big John Owls got a good idea?
Rhodes? Remember to bring a suitcase of Euros.
There are a surprisingly large number of Greek holidays available. Maybe something to do with the idea that the airport staff won't turn up for work if the government tries to pay them in drachma.
Also a lot of Turkish holidays. Nothing to do with it bordering on Iraq and being full of Muslims of course.
I am presuming that the holidays in Tunisia just haven't been taken down yet.
Honestly, you need a Masters in geopolitics before you get a bit of sun these days.
Dont ask me.
We may have a short break on the East coast of Scotland this week
Blimey from Islamic Terrorists to Scottish Nationalists, you really do like going to places with nutty extremists.
You are most certainly going to rue the day with that comment.
Wait until you see the Scotland thread going up tomorrow, I don't kick the Scot Nats Hornets' nest as much as give it a colossus wedgie, kick it in the knackers and say Haha you Nats are losers.
That's proper fighting talk - what time are you planning on posting it ? - need to make sure I'm at the computer. Do I need to wear my kilt and apply full body war paint ?
Probably tomorrow afternoon 1/2pm.
Might get bumped because of events.
Great, I'll keep an eye out for it and be ready to respond !!
It is the first of two Scotland threads. Both should be humdingers.
Even better !!
I note we have a couple of jokers on tonight, in the spirit of keeping the mood light hearted - my favourite Indyref joke:
" Why did Scotsman start wearing kilts? - Because the sheep had all got wise to the sound of a fly zipper being pulled down."
Scotland - where men are men, and the sheep look worried.
The real nightmare for the Eurozone elite is a Greek Margaret Thatcher, who can tell unpleasant truths, and understands the importance of the free market, and who would lead Greece to success and prosperity outside of the Eurozone.
The Eurozone fanatics would regard that as a nightmare. Everyone else would be happy for the Greeks.
You should also remind people of the rest of rcs' comment, ''Alex Tsipiras is not that man. Alex Tsipiras is a man who counts Hugo Chavez and Mrs Kirchner as his economic heroes. Inside or outside the Eurozone that will be a disaster for Greece, as it has been for the people of Argentina and Venezuela.''
Greece is in a mess because its voters elected a lunatic communist. The Euro may be a good idea it may be a bad idea. Letting Greece in without proper financial checks might have been stupid it might not have been. The Greeks thinking they could get away with it might have been clever it might not have been. it does not matter. The Greeks are exactly where they are now because they foolishly elected a stupid government whose promise to be able to walk on water proved unsurprisingly bogus. Just about the only vox pop the BBC could get the other day was some bloke saying he/we did not want a referendum he/we wanted the govt out.
The ECB needs to change its name. Every time I read something about the Greek crisis, the first thought I have is: I didn't know the Greeks played cricket.
The real nightmare for the Eurozone elite is a Greek Margaret Thatcher, who can tell unpleasant truths, and understands the importance of the free market, and who would lead Greece to success and prosperity outside of the Eurozone.
The Eurozone fanatics would regard that as a nightmare. Everyone else would be happy for the Greeks.
I agree completely :-)
The point of my post was to look from the point of view of the Eurozone elite.
To give you a feel for the sort of stuff which comes across my Twitter feed 24/7, here's a classic example of a London Labour party member reaching out in a constructive manner to us former Labour supporters currently supporting the SNP. Sadly the MSM just turn a blind eye
To give you a feel for the sort of stuff which comes across my Twitter feed 24/7, here's a classic example of a London Labour party member reaching out in a constructive manner to us former Labour supporters currently supporting the SNP. Sadly the MSM just turn a blind eye
To give you a feel for the sort of stuff which comes across my Twitter feed 24/7, here's a classic example of a London Labour party member reaching out in a constructive manner to us former Labour supporters currently supporting the SNP. Sadly the MSM just turn a blind eye
To give you a feel for the sort of stuff which comes across my Twitter feed 24/7, here's a classic example of a London Labour party member reaching out in a constructive manner to us former Labour supporters currently supporting the SNP. Sadly the MSM just turn a blind eye
Just as they should. Someone tweeting something isn't news. The trend for reporting individuals saying something ghastly on twitter as being indicative of anything is highly worrying. The point should be that they should turn a blind eye whenever it happens, rather than hysterical reporting of tweets from their opponents.
To give you a feel for the sort of stuff which comes across my Twitter feed 24/7, here's a classic example of a London Labour party member reaching out in a constructive manner to us former Labour supporters currently supporting the SNP. Sadly the MSM just turn a blind eye
I'm glad that SNP members are finally recognising the paedophile heart of their organisation.
(Joke)
No worries. If these guys would avoid certain topics, they would actually be quite funny, even though at lot of them seem completely serious.
I had a quick skim through his Twitter, as far as I can tell he hates everybody other than Rangers supporters, Labour supporters and hopefully his Mum.
- the Greek banking system remains essentially closed for a week and - a clear vote for 'yes' next Sunday and - the deal to therefore be approved by all
He may be optimistic
If a was a better I'd put money on a clear yes. i think Tspiras and Syriza are busted flushes - it should send a clear message to Podemos in Spain as well. Essential that the eurogroup stands firm on this - otherwise the Euro is finished.
To give you a feel for the sort of stuff which comes across my Twitter feed 24/7, here's a classic example of a London Labour party member reaching out in a constructive manner to us former Labour supporters currently supporting the SNP. Sadly the MSM just turn a blind eye
Call me crazy, but you should never, ever bet on your own side losing. It should be a moral imperative that you never have, or be seen to have, a discretionary financial incentive to do worse by your friends than you can.
EDIT: I should be absolutely clear that I mean someone who matters in the media like Frank Field or in politics, rather than someone with relatively little influence over the outcome like a run-of-the-mill canvasser or just a sympathiser.
I think it will be a 'Yes' too. The Greeks seem extremely beholden to remaining in the Euro, and the EU. I think it's a matter of national pride - even if life was easier I don't think they want the drachma back.
To give you a feel for the sort of stuff which comes across my Twitter feed 24/7, here's a classic example of a London Labour party member reaching out in a constructive manner to us former Labour supporters currently supporting the SNP. Sadly the MSM just turn a blind eye
It's interesting that you think that's somehow unique.
UKIP supporters and Tories are bombarded by that type of bilge on a regular basis.
I know its not unique but the MSM only seems to report on alleged Cybernats and possibly UKIPers. My view is the same as Luckyguy1983 i.e. the MSM should stay out of Twitter unless there is something illegal involved. I think political parties should keep an eye on what their members are posting.
I think it will be a 'Yes' too. The Greeks seem extremely beholden to remaining in the Euro, and the EU. I think it's a matter of national pride - even if life was easier I don't think they want the drachma back.
A "Yes" vote will, of course, confirm to the followers of the true faith of European Integration that the people are clamouring for "More Europe".
If a Cricket player bet against his own team, the ICC Anti-Corruption squad will be on him in no time. For a politician or a crony, it is glory seeking.
'The law is clear. If the Greek banks are insolvent, they must cut off funding. In fact, Jens Weidmann of the Bundesbank makes a very compelling case that raising the ELS limits was - in effect - monetary financing of deficits. And therefore should not be allowed.'
With the EU's ideology at stake do you really think they will follow the rule book ?
That's the entire problem with the EU. If the rules don't fit they change them to make sure the project is not derailed. If they allow a referendum and the referendum gives them the wrong answer they just keep asking until they get the right answer. At that point irrespective of how many times the wrong answer was given when they get the right answer its binding and can never be overturned.
I think it will be a 'Yes' too. The Greeks seem extremely beholden to remaining in the Euro, and the EU. I think it's a matter of national pride - even if life was easier I don't think they want the drachma back.
A "Yes" vote will, of course, confirm to the followers of the true faith of European Integration that the people are clamouring for "More Europe".
And they are. No majority in any member country will vote to leave. I am not sure even 50% of Tory supporters will vote to leave - under any circumstances that we can think of.
'The law is clear. If the Greek banks are insolvent, they must cut off funding. In fact, Jens Weidmann of the Bundesbank makes a very compelling case that raising the ELS limits was - in effect - monetary financing of deficits. And therefore should not be allowed.'
With the EU's ideology at stake do you really think they will follow the rule book ?
That's the entire problem with the EU. If the rules don't fit they change them to make sure the project is not derailed. If they allow a referendum and the referendum gives them the wrong answer they just keep asking until they get the right answer. At that point irrespective of how many times the wrong answer was given when they get the right answer its binding and can never be overturned.
On the other hand, there is a compelling case of rescuing banks which are within the Eurozone and therefore their insolvency could affect all the Eurozone countries.
I remember Britain helping out Ireland with 10bn GBP or EUR funding because of the effects the Irish banks insolvency could have had on Northern Ireland.
Greeks continue to flock to cash machines tonight, in response to tonight’s announcement of capital controls.
Helena Smith @HelenaSmithGDN #Greece lines are now being described as "unending" outside ATMs; islands especially bad where cash transactions trump creditcards 9:04 PM - 28 Jun 2015
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
I think it will be a 'Yes' too. The Greeks seem extremely beholden to remaining in the Euro, and the EU. I think it's a matter of national pride - even if life was easier I don't think they want the drachma back.
A "Yes" vote will, of course, confirm to the followers of the true faith of European Integration that the people are clamouring for "More Europe".
I have now asked my Greek flatmate, and she's told me in no uncertain terms that Greeks hate the euro, and can't wait to get rid of it. She says that Greeks just grumble about things but never get off their arses and do anything, but that the election Syriza, rightly or wrongly, is a decisive break with the past. Just her view, but she must have her reasons.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Phew :-)
Could she cancel all my savings while she's at it.
Borrowing and saving being opposite sides of the same coin, after all.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
The real nightmare for the Eurozone elite is a Greek Margaret Thatcher, who can tell unpleasant truths, and understands the importance of the free market, and who would lead Greece to success and prosperity outside of the Eurozone.
The Eurozone fanatics would regard that as a nightmare. Everyone else would be happy for the Greeks.
Greece is in a mess because its voters elected a lunatic communist.
No. The Greeks voted him in because they were in a mess. By the end of next week a deal will be done, far less worse than the draconian measures first mooted but draconian nonetheless.
Mr Tsipras and his team has negotiated a very poor hand very well. The New Democrats would have caved in completely. No party in Greece would want to leave the EU.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Excellent. After that, it will be easy for her to turn her attention close to home and cancel debt for overspent credit cards, overdrafts, and people struggling with their mortgages,
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Here's the letter in all its glory. Also signed by Len McClusky and Jeremy Corbyn.
If a Cricket player bet against his own team, the ICC Anti-Corruption squad will be on him in no time. For a politician or a crony, it is glory seeking.
False analogy. Legally the General Election is 650 separate contests so as long as he didn't vote against himself to win then he has done nothing wrong.
The real nightmare for the Eurozone elite is a Greek Margaret Thatcher, who can tell unpleasant truths, and understands the importance of the free market, and who would lead Greece to success and prosperity outside of the Eurozone.
The Eurozone fanatics would regard that as a nightmare. Everyone else would be happy for the Greeks.
You should also remind people of the rest of rcs' comment, ''Alex Tsipiras is not that man. Alex Tsipiras is a man who counts Hugo Chavez and Mrs Kirchner as his economic heroes. Inside or outside the Eurozone that will be a disaster for Greece, as it has been for the people of Argentina and Venezuela.''
Greece is in a mess because its voters elected a lunatic communist. The Euro may be a good idea it may be a bad idea. Letting Greece in without proper financial checks might have been stupid it might not have been. The Greeks thinking they could get away with it might have been clever it might not have been. it does not matter. The Greeks are exactly where they are now because they foolishly elected a stupid government whose promise to be able to walk on water proved unsurprisingly bogus. Just about the only vox pop the BBC could get the other day was some bloke saying he/we did not want a referendum he/we wanted the govt out.
Nope. Greece would be in this mess no matter who had been elected. It was the pro EU parties in Greece who set them on the road to ruin and to lay all of the current problems at the door of Tsipiras - no matter what his politics - is ridiculous.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Debt which cannot be paid because of an economy which has shrunk after the imposition of creditor-imposed policy should be cancelled.
In this case, Germany should stump up because they enjoy lowered export advantage.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Can you imagine Miliband handling the Tunisian situation?
"These shootings are wrong at a time that we are trying to ban Islamaphobia. But tourists and terrorists have been let down by both sides..."
Is it possible that the SNP could win as many as 70 directly elected Holyrood seats ? How many would they win through the list system. Possibly very few.
If a Cricket player bet against his own team, the ICC Anti-Corruption squad will be on him in no time. For a politician or a crony, it is glory seeking.
False analogy. Legally the General Election is 650 separate contests so as long as he didn't vote against himself to win then he has done nothing wrong.
Even if he did vote against himself then he's broken no laws. Obviously it'd be odd though.
'The law is clear. If the Greek banks are insolvent, they must cut off funding. In fact, Jens Weidmann of the Bundesbank makes a very compelling case that raising the ELS limits was - in effect - monetary financing of deficits. And therefore should not be allowed.'
With the EU's ideology at stake do you really think they will follow the rule book ?
That's the entire problem with the EU. If the rules don't fit they change them to make sure the project is not derailed. If they allow a referendum and the referendum gives them the wrong answer they just keep asking until they get the right answer. At that point irrespective of how many times the wrong answer was given when they get the right answer its binding and can never be overturned.
On the other hand, there is a compelling case of rescuing banks which are within the Eurozone and therefore their insolvency could affect all the Eurozone countries.
I remember Britain helping out Ireland with 10bn GBP or EUR funding because of the effects the Irish banks insolvency could have had on Northern Ireland.
More that one of the biggest operators south of the border was RBS (via Ulster bank) and AIB was a big operator in the UK. Entirely self-interest
- the Greek banking system remains essentially closed for a week and - a clear vote for 'yes' next Sunday and - the deal to therefore be approved by all
He may be optimistic
If a was a better I'd put money on a clear yes. i think Tspiras and Syriza are busted flushes - it should send a clear message to Podemos in Spain as well. Essential that the eurogroup stands firm on this - otherwise the Euro is finished.
I wouldn't. The two opinion polls were carried out last week when SYRIZA were in favour of the deal they had proposed, now the very, very popular PM is against the deal that the EU/IMF have proposed. The landscape has changed. I would at least wait for a couple of new polls with field work starting tomorrow after the capital controls have taken effect.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Yes you should pay money back when you borrow it, but equally the lender has a responsibility not to lend money when they have doubts the debtor can pay it back. Lenders were happy to pour money into Greece knowing that other countries would bail them out. They deserve to take a haircut.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Yes you should pay money back when you borrow it, but equally the lender has a responsibility not to lend money when they have doubts the debtor can pay it back. Lenders were happy to pour money into Greece knowing that other countries would bail them out. They deserve to take a haircut.
Wait, so if you are not sure if you can pay the money back on a credit card loan, then it's partly their fault you borrowed the money?
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Yes you should pay money back when you borrow it, but equally the lender has a responsibility not to lend money when they have doubts the debtor can pay it back. Lenders were happy to pour money into Greece knowing that other countries would bail them out. They deserve to take a haircut.
Wait, so if you are not sure if you can pay the money back on a credit card loan, then it's partly their fault you borrowed the money?
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Yes you should pay money back when you borrow it, but equally the lender has a responsibility not to lend money when they have doubts the debtor can pay it back. Lenders were happy to pour money into Greece knowing that other countries would bail them out. They deserve to take a haircut.
Wait, so if you are not sure if you can pay the money back on a credit card loan, then it's partly their fault you borrowed the money?
Yes, if credit allowed exceeds the ability of the borrower to repay, then part of the fault lies with the lender.
On balance I think the Greeks will vote No. It's an SNP-style thing, isn't it? The Troika are the equivalent of Westminster.
Fat lot of good it will do them, of course, but to be honest what good would a Yes vote do them? The temptation to bring the house down with you is a common human response to desperate and hopeless situations.
Maybe a week of the economy being completely seized up might focus minds - not only for anyone with money in a bank, and for any business, but also for anyone owed money, dependent on a job, or desperate for their next pension payment - but more likely it will instead inflame irrational emotions.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Yes you should pay money back when you borrow it, but equally the lender has a responsibility not to lend money when they have doubts the debtor can pay it back. Lenders were happy to pour money into Greece knowing that other countries would bail them out. They deserve to take a haircut.
Wait, so if you are not sure if you can pay the money back on a credit card loan, then it's partly their fault you borrowed the money?
Yes, if credit allowed exceeds the ability of the borrower to repay, then part of the fault lies with the lender.
Yes you should pay money back when you borrow it, but equally the lender has a responsibility not to lend money when they have doubts the debtor can pay it back. Lenders were happy to pour money into Greece knowing that other countries would bail them out. They deserve to take a haircut.
Yes you should pay money back when you borrow it, but equally the lender has a responsibility not to lend money when they have doubts the debtor can pay it back. Lenders were happy to pour money into Greece knowing that other countries would bail them out. They deserve to take a haircut.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Yes you should pay money back when you borrow it, but equally the lender has a responsibility not to lend money when they have doubts the debtor can pay it back. Lenders were happy to pour money into Greece knowing that other countries would bail them out. They deserve to take a haircut.
Wait, so if you are not sure if you can pay the money back on a credit card loan, then it's partly their fault you borrowed the money?
Yes, if credit allowed exceeds the ability of the borrower to repay, then part of the fault lies with the lender.
Thank you.
So, if you lend money to somebody, and it turned out that they can't pay because they lied to you about their circumstances, you should say "fuck me, it's my fault for not doing the proper research. consider yourself absolved from the debt."
It is recognised as the reality in domestic processes such as bankruptcy and CVAs/IVAs.
Lending is a business transaction, and the profit is the interest charged. Business transactions generally involve a level of risk. If my company sells a gizmo to someone before it has been paid for, there is a degree of judgement as to whether the invoice will be paid - this is generally based on perceived ability of the recipient to pay.
The Greek government is so self-obsessed that they seemingly have no conception of how angry people in say Germany might be where people generally don't spend money until they've actually earned it.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Yes you should pay money back when you borrow it, but equally the lender has a responsibility not to lend money when they have doubts the debtor can pay it back. Lenders were happy to pour money into Greece knowing that other countries would bail them out. They deserve to take a haircut.
Wait, so if you are not sure if you can pay the money back on a credit card loan, then it's partly their fault you borrowed the money?
Yes, if credit allowed exceeds the ability of the borrower to repay, then part of the fault lies with the lender.
Thank you.
So, if you lend money to somebody, and it turned out that they can't pay because they lied to you about their circumstances, you should say "fuck me, it's my fault for not doing the proper research. consider yourself absolved from the debt."
Hey: can I borrow £100? I'm good for it, honest.
Well in this circumstance I don't consider you a good risk, so I won't lend you the £100. Thanks and come again.
IMHO, in this case, the IMF bailout should have instead been funded by the other members of the Eurozone. Did EU politicians really think Greece was suddenly going to be able to afford IMF repayments when Greece had been unable to afford other (bond?) repayments?
That letter to the Guardian is magnificent in its total lunacy.
I'm half tempted to do the morning thread on "Can the events in Greece help Corbyn win the Labour leadership as the left are swept up in a Greek Solidarity/Anti Austerity fever?"
That letter to the Guardian is magnificent in its total lunacy.
I'm half tempted to do the morning thread on "Can the events in Greece help Corbyn win the Labour leadership as the left are swept up in a Greek Solidarity/Anti Austerity fever?"
'@HackneyIdiot: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR'
If the Germans want to avoid having their money thrown away at insolvent countries in the cause of 'Europe' then they need to start electing different governments. You can't be idealistic and tight-fisted at the same time.
An update from Robert Peston of the BBC: Here is an extract:
Greek banking sources tell me that the banks have been instructed to close for at least a week and a day.
And during that period of closure the following capital controls will be imposed:
a) a maximum of 60 euros can be withdrawn per bank card per day or per account per day;
b) no cash can be moved abroad at all, except for vital commercial transactions that would have to be pre-approved.
The hope would be that banks could open their doors again some time after the result of the referendum is known next Sunday night, probably the Tuesday - so long as Greeks vote for a bailout on the terms demanded by the country's eurozone and IMF creditors.
But European finance ministers and the IMF have not guaranteed that the deal will still be available. So it is possible the emergency bank closures will continue beyond the current signaled end of next Monday night.
'@HackneyIdiot: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR'
I'd like to sign a letter of solidarity with anyone willing to give me my long overdue Pools jackpot winnings.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Yes you should pay money back when you borrow it, but equally the lender has a responsibility not to lend money when they have doubts the debtor can pay it back. Lenders were happy to pour money into Greece knowing that other countries would bail them out. They deserve to take a haircut.
I'm sure lenders have already taken a haircut. The whole point is that the IMF etc are not going to lend more money to Greece because they realise they will never see it again. Greece is an economically backwards and corrupt basket case which has been playing a game of hide and seek with sound money for far too long; it was caught out long ago but thought if it refused to come out of hiding its playmates might go home for tea.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Debt which cannot be paid because of an economy which has shrunk after the imposition of creditor-imposed policy should be cancelled. In this case, Germany should stump up because they enjoy lowered export advantage.
Bagloads of money are available to Greece from the IMF etc if they carry out reforms. Greece now has no lender of last resort and its ratings lie somewhere at the bottom of the Mid Atlantic trench. Dredging up Germany in those circumstances comes across as beneath pathetic to me.
Can I ask, why does it necessarily follow that the Greek government would have to resign if the country votes YES to the deal? The SNP government didn't have to resign when they lost the independence referendum.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Debt which cannot be paid because of an economy which has shrunk after the imposition of creditor-imposed policy should be cancelled. In this case, Germany should stump up because they enjoy lowered export advantage.
Bagloads of money are available to Greece from the IMF etc if they carry out reforms. Greece now has no lender of last resort and its ratings lie somewhere at the bottom of the Mid Atlantic trench. Dredging up Germany in those circumstances comes across as beneath pathetic to me.
The problem with currency unions without economic union is that the richer is on the hook for the poorer. Sadly, the European- and specifically German - taxpayer doesn't seem to have realised this.
That letter to the Guardian is magnificent in its total lunacy.
Does Abbott, Corbyn et al realise that we are part of the IMF, that some of the billions of euros owed to the IMF are underwritten by us, and we will lose them if they don't pony up? I sympathise with the Greek people but my sympathy does not extend to paying their debts for them.
LuckyGuy1983 The US is not engaged in any military conflict with China or Russia is it? Arguably it is the lack of ground troops against ISIS with limited airstrikes alone doing the job which is limiting the campaign against them
Can I ask, why does it necessarily follow that the Greek government would have to resign if the country votes YES to the deal? The SNP government didn't have to resign when they lost the independence referendum.
They don't. Tsipras may remain in place, refuse to resign, refuse to accept a deal, tell everyone to leave except Keitel, Jodl, Krebs, and Burgdorf, then go on a rant about how he has been betrayed by everybody. He may well actually do that: if he wasn't that batshit crazy before the negotiations he surely is now.
Oh dear me... It's hitting the front pages and the prat even used a selfie stick.
"A Labour parliamentary candidate has sparked outrage by posing for a selfie at the exact spot where a crazed gunman massacred 38 holidaymakers including up to 30 Britons just 48 hours earlier. Amran Hussain, 29, an Army reservist who stood for North East Hampshire in the recent election, was pictured holding his selfie stick aloft as he grinned in front of a pile of flowers and tributes. With the sun loungers where dozens of tourists were slaughtered by ISIS militant Seifeddine Rezgui clearly visible in the background, the national delivery officer for NHS England looked directly at the camera in aviator-style sunglasses."
Yes you should pay money back when you borrow it, but equally the lender has a responsibility not to lend money when they have doubts the debtor can pay it back.
A former acquaintance of mine frequently met with some debt collectors at the lower end of the market. They have a quality I've only ever encountered in soldiers: they have absolutely no tolerance for bullshit. I am not big nor strong but with most people there is a parity of esteem: apart for minor differences we're about the same level. But with them (and the soldiers, and on the rare occasions when I've met the very rich) it was bloody obvious I was way out of my league. They would listen politely to your protestations, then quickly, brutally and efficiently take everything you have: house, possessions, car, everything except what you were wearing (and I think bedding? It's been a while). There are some very hard people in the world and statements like "it's their fault they lent it to me", no matter how sincerely meant, cut very little ice
Alexis Tsipras @tsipras_eu The recent decisions of the Eurogroup & ECB have only one objective: to attempt to stifle the will of the Greek people. #Greece 7:02 PM - 28 Jun 2015
Alexis Tsipras @tsipras_eu The recent decisions of the Eurogroup & ECB have only one objective: to attempt to stifle the will of the Greek people. #Greece 7:02 PM - 28 Jun 2015
End Game?..
Given that the will of the Greek people is "we don't want to pay our debt", Tsipras is exactly correct. He should then proceed to take action to deal with this: renounce the debt and leave the Eurozone or persuade the Greeks to endure the debt repayments. Instead of which, he waited until the very last minute then four days before his life-support expired called a referendum which he can't afford to hold, in a timetable he can barely meet, the outcome of which he is determined to ignore.
Syriza, ladies and gentlemen. Let's give them a big hand. Dumbest f**** in Christendom.
False analogy. Legally the General Election is 650 separate contests so as long as he didn't vote against himself to win then he has done nothing wrong.
I have made the case before, and make it again that much political betting constitutes an offence contrary to section 42 of the Gambling Act 2005. Cheating at gambling may, in particular, consist of actual or attempted interference with an event or process to which the gambling relates (s. 42(3)(b)). If, therefore, a person bets on a Labour majority, and votes for a Labour MP, he is undoubtedly interfering with the event or process to which the gambling relates. It is no different to a cricketer betting on himself to be out for a duck, and leaving a yorker. Cheating may occur whether or not the person wins anything or improves his chance of winning (s. 42(2)).
That letter to the Guardian is magnificent in its total lunacy.
I'm half tempted to do the morning thread on "Can the events in Greece help Corbyn win the Labour leadership as the left are swept up in a Greek Solidarity/Anti Austerity fever?"
What with Greece kicking off instead of kicking the can, and JohnO's horrific ordeal, you must really love it when OGH goes on vacation.
Alexis Tsipras @tsipras_eu The recent decisions of the Eurogroup & ECB have only one objective: to attempt to stifle the will of the Greek people. #Greece 7:02 PM - 28 Jun 2015
End Game?..
Certainly the whinging on all sides is reaching fever pitch, but I confess my sympathy with the suffering of the Greek people was maxed out awhile ago, fittingly given their circumstances. If someone helped or allowed me to do something stupid I am still more At fault if no one forced me to do it, and even if I as ordinary person didn't make those decisions if I keep electing governments which refuse to or are unable to do things necessary to fix it, my government and perhaps I am stilll more at fault than someone refusing to help me as much as I want, if, and it's a big if, they have been working with my government to help resolve it but the government won't do the same perhaps as I won't permit it. They still made choices that led to this and won't or cannot fix it, even if others encouraged it.
Other nations do not have to abide by the will of the Greek people as they are answerable to their people first. So it's a question of how reasonable have the Greeks been. Admittedly economics is not my strength and. It was clear they would never pay back much of what was leant, it was said at the time it was a lie to call them loans, but so many years on and they cannot get their shit together? Even if the others are uncooperative and harsh that speaks poorly of Greece.
Nope. Greece would be in this mess no matter who had been elected. It was the pro EU parties in Greece who set them on the road to ruin and to lay all of the current problems at the door of Tsipiras - no matter what his politics - is ridiculous.
Partly true, partly false. The enormous growth Greece enjoyed since about 1995, which then accelerated when they joined the Euro, was down to the parties then in power. They were pro-EU for the simple reason that that's where the money came from, and they let the good times roll, creaming it off the top, lying about their accounts, nobody cared or even noticed, trebles all round, let's have a big navy, why not, PAARTAY. And when the crunch hit, that rapid growth went straight into reverse, oooh shiit. So that part of your analysis is correct.
But when the last government got in (the one that Syriza beat), they started to cope again. Times were very hard, but they were coping: "maintaining", in the parlance, keeping it together, even growing a little bit.
Then Syriza got in and in what, three months, they trashed it all. Stupid, stupid people.
Don't let your stance on the EU blind you to Syriza's stupidity. Sometimes, your enemy's enemy is not your friend
Totally agree TSE = Frank Field is one of my favourite Labour MP's and always will be alongside the likes of Kate Hoey, Gisela Stuart and Diane Abbott.
Well things have fallen apart in Greece quicker than I thought was going to be the case. DAX futures down 4.5%, Euro down at 1.10 against USD down over 1.5%. German 10 yr bund only off just over 0.5%. Between now and the end of September we should get a last move higher in the short end of government debt (and widespread negative yield on the short dated European sovereigns in the core Euro area plus Switzerland of course). Once Greece leaves, the likes of Portugal, Spain, Italy and Ireland should be extremely worried, because the whole game changes, once one leaves, it no longer becomes unthinkable that others will. And once Greece leaves, has a 40-50% long term devaluation with the new drachma (possibly greater in the short term) it will start recovering, and the Greek experience will serve merely to add more petrol to the flames of people in other countries on the periphery wanting to leave this botched and failed currency called the Euro. In the short term until the end of September I think the other peripheral eurozone countries will be ok. Once we get into October, then we should see Portugal as the next weak link to come undone.
And all too clearly now, we have a eurocracy in Brussels that couldn't care less about the people in Eurozone, but wants to preserve the Euro at all costs, and by extension their jobs by any means, even if that means running policies completely counter to what the people in the periphery of the Eurozone want. And to any europhile seeking to defend this sad state of affairs, was this really the European dream that Monnet et al had in mind 60 years ago to put the European project above the democratic will of the people - of course not, and the whole wretched project can't die of death too soon.
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Words fail. Typical socialist attitude , take the money, blow it all, bitch you have to pay it back under the agreed terms, do a flounce and then shout for debt cancellation.
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Debt which cannot be paid because of an economy which has shrunk after the imposition of creditor-imposed policy should be cancelled. In this case, Germany should stump up because they enjoy lowered export advantage.
Bagloads of money are available to Greece from the IMF etc if they carry out reforms. Greece now has no lender of last resort and its ratings lie somewhere at the bottom of the Mid Atlantic trench. Dredging up Germany in those circumstances comes across as beneath pathetic to me.
The problem with currency unions without economic union is that the richer is on the hook for the poorer. Sadly, the European- and specifically German - taxpayer doesn't seem to have realised this.
I still don't think you have quite worked out what is going on. There already is a currency and economic union. But Greece is a sovereign country (much though I like to dismay kippers); it - the sovereign country - is the one in debt. What we are however seeing is that a currency union will inevitably lead to a closer (ever closer) fiscal and political union. This is the exact point Cameron is making and why he wants to negotiate changes that keep Britain out of that and protects our own financial services.
Comments
I think you are referring to the duration mismatch: lend long (a mortgage) and borrow short (your current account).
That is not, technically, insolvency, although it does mean that bank runs can rapidly destroy otherwise healthy banks.
Insolvency refers simply to the value of a banks assets being less than the value of its liabilities. In the event of default, then the value of bonds held by the Greek banks is, if not actually zero, then very close to it. The value of the banks' assets is now less than their liabilities.
'The law is clear. If the Greek banks are insolvent, they must cut off funding. In fact, Jens Weidmann of the Bundesbank makes a very compelling case that raising the ELS limits was - in effect - monetary financing of deficits. And therefore should not be allowed.'
With the EU's ideology at stake do you really think they will follow the rule book ?
I note we have a couple of jokers on tonight, in the spirit of keeping the mood light hearted - my favourite Indyref joke:
" Why did Scotsman start wearing kilts? - Because the sheep had all got wise to the sound of a fly zipper being pulled down."
From this perspective, the best outcome is that Greece accepts the will of the troika, and stays in the family. The second best outcome is that Greece "flames out" and exits the Eurozone in such a mess that others (Spain, Portugal, etc.) are discouraged from going down that path. The worst outcome, therefore, is that Greece leaves and becomes an enormous success.
The real nightmare for the Eurozone elite is a Greek Margaret Thatcher, who can tell unpleasant truths, and understands the importance of the free market, and who would lead Greece to success and prosperity outside of the Eurozone.
Alex Tsipiras is not that man. Alex Tsipiras is a man who counts Hugo Chavez and Mrs Kirchner as his economic heroes. Inside or outside the Eurozone that will be a disaster for Greece, as it has been for the people of Argentina and Venezuela.
Then I hear the announcement from the first tee - "On the tee - Jimmy Carter!".
I sat up startled - he's that good a golfer at his age?
It turns out there is more than one Jimmy Carter - who could have possibly imagined that?
I am now back swaddled in my recliner.
Is anything worn under the kilt? Naye, it's all in perfect working order.
''Alex Tsipiras is not that man. Alex Tsipiras is a man who counts Hugo Chavez and Mrs Kirchner as his economic heroes. Inside or outside the Eurozone that will be a disaster for Greece, as it has been for the people of Argentina and Venezuela.''
Greece is in a mess because its voters elected a lunatic communist. The Euro may be a good idea it may be a bad idea. Letting Greece in without proper financial checks might have been stupid it might not have been. The Greeks thinking they could get away with it might have been clever it might not have been.
it does not matter.
The Greeks are exactly where they are now because they foolishly elected a stupid government whose promise to be able to walk on water proved unsurprisingly bogus. Just about the only vox pop the BBC could get the other day was some bloke saying he/we did not want a referendum he/we wanted the govt out.
The point of my post was to look from the point of view of the Eurozone elite.
https://twitter.com/RupertAntifa/status/602605561671188481
(Joke)
UKIP supporters and Tories are bombarded by that type of bilge on a regular basis.
I had a quick skim through his Twitter, as far as I can tell he hates everybody other than Rangers supporters, Labour supporters and hopefully his Mum.
EDIT: I should be absolutely clear that I mean someone who matters in the media like Frank Field or in politics, rather than someone with relatively little influence over the outcome like a run-of-the-mill canvasser or just a sympathiser.
If they allow a referendum and the referendum gives them the wrong answer they just keep asking until they get the right answer. At that point irrespective of how many times the wrong answer was given when they get the right answer its binding and can never be overturned.
I remember Britain helping out Ireland with 10bn GBP or EUR funding because of the effects the Irish banks insolvency could have had on Northern Ireland.
Helena Smith @HelenaSmithGDN
#Greece lines are now being described as "unending" outside ATMs; islands especially bad where cash transactions trump creditcards
9:04 PM - 28 Jun 2015
@HackneyAbbott: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR
Could she cancel all my savings while she's at it.
Borrowing and saving being opposite sides of the same coin, after all.
We the undersigned ask that you put a stop to all this economics business.
Yours,
Two Labour MPs and a SOAS lecturer
Jeeez we dodged a fecking howitzer shell in May we truly did.
Mr Tsipras and his team has negotiated a very poor hand very well. The New Democrats would have caved in completely. No party in Greece would want to leave the EU.
Excellent. After that, it will be easy for her to turn her attention close to home and cancel debt for overspent credit cards, overdrafts, and people struggling with their mortgages,
Heck, let's just make it everyone's mortgage.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/28/greek-crisis-brings-eurozone-to-a-crossroads
In this case, Germany should stump up because they enjoy lowered export advantage.
Can you imagine Miliband handling the Tunisian situation?
"These shootings are wrong at a time that we are trying to ban Islamaphobia. But tourists and terrorists have been let down by both sides..."
Is it possible that the SNP could win as many as 70 directly elected Holyrood seats ? How many would they win through the list system. Possibly very few.
I wouldn't. The two opinion polls were carried out last week when SYRIZA were in favour of the deal they had proposed, now the very, very popular PM is against the deal that the EU/IMF have proposed. The landscape has changed. I would at least wait for a couple of new polls with field work starting tomorrow after the capital controls have taken effect.
Fat lot of good it will do them, of course, but to be honest what good would a Yes vote do them? The temptation to bring the house down with you is a common human response to desperate and hopeless situations.
Maybe a week of the economy being completely seized up might focus minds - not only for anyone with money in a bank, and for any business, but also for anyone owed money, dependent on a job, or desperate for their next pension payment - but more likely it will instead inflame irrational emotions.
'Debt which cannot be paid because of an economy which has shrunk after the imposition of creditor-imposed policy should be cancelled.'
That's great let's all have a bit.
Every country borrowing from the IMF can come up with that excuse.
Hey: can I borrow £100? I'm good for it, honest.
It is recognised as the reality in domestic processes such as bankruptcy and CVAs/IVAs.
Lending is a business transaction, and the profit is the interest charged. Business transactions generally involve a level of risk. If my company sells a gizmo to someone before it has been paid for, there is a degree of judgement as to whether the invoice will be paid - this is generally based on perceived ability of the recipient to pay.
She's single now, I'm single too......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3142087/Thousands-defiant-Tunisians-light-candles-march-streets-protest-massacre-brought-blood-beaches-leaving-39-dead.html
Correction:
'@HackneyIdiot: I have signed an emergency letter of solidarity with the Greek people calling for debt cancellation #CancelGreekDebt http://t.co/nbjNAlg4WR'
Here is an extract:
Greek banking sources tell me that the banks have been instructed to close for at least a week and a day.
And during that period of closure the following capital controls will be imposed:
a) a maximum of 60 euros can be withdrawn per bank card per day or per account per day;
b) no cash can be moved abroad at all, except for vital commercial transactions that would have to be pre-approved.
The hope would be that banks could open their doors again some time after the result of the referendum is known next Sunday night, probably the Tuesday - so long as Greeks vote for a bailout on the terms demanded by the country's eurozone and IMF creditors.
But European finance ministers and the IMF have not guaranteed that the deal will still be available. So it is possible the emergency bank closures will continue beyond the current signaled end of next Monday night.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33306158
If you are getting that sort of yield back on a bond then y'know there may be some risk.
Anyway those lending the greeks cash don't have to lend it them any more if they default.
Greece is an economically backwards and corrupt basket case which has been playing a game of hide and seek with sound money for far too long; it was caught out long ago but thought if it refused to come out of hiding its playmates might go home for tea.
Dredging up Germany in those circumstances comes across as beneath pathetic to me.
"A Labour parliamentary candidate has sparked outrage by posing for a selfie at the exact spot where a crazed gunman massacred 38 holidaymakers including up to 30 Britons just 48 hours earlier.
Amran Hussain, 29, an Army reservist who stood for North East Hampshire in the recent election, was pictured holding his selfie stick aloft as he grinned in front of a pile of flowers and tributes.
With the sun loungers where dozens of tourists were slaughtered by ISIS militant Seifeddine Rezgui clearly visible in the background, the national delivery officer for NHS England looked directly at the camera in aviator-style sunglasses."
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/28/19/2A10017600000578-3142087-image-a-39_1435515092369.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3142087/Thousands-defiant-Tunisians-light-candles-march-streets-protest-massacre-brought-blood-beaches-leaving-39-dead.html#ixzz3eOo0R02p
The recent decisions of the Eurogroup & ECB have only one objective: to attempt to stifle the will of the Greek people. #Greece
7:02 PM - 28 Jun 2015
End Game?..
Syriza, ladies and gentlemen. Let's give them a big hand. Dumbest f**** in Christendom.
You're doing a sterling job IMO.
Other nations do not have to abide by the will of the Greek people as they are answerable to their people first. So it's a question of how reasonable have the Greeks been. Admittedly economics is not my strength and. It was clear they would never pay back much of what was leant, it was said at the time it was a lie to call them loans, but so many years on and they cannot get their shit together? Even if the others are uncooperative and harsh that speaks poorly of Greece.
This needs to end, if has gone on too long.
Good night.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22714130
But when the last government got in (the one that Syriza beat), they started to cope again. Times were very hard, but they were coping: "maintaining", in the parlance, keeping it together, even growing a little bit.
Then Syriza got in and in what, three months, they trashed it all. Stupid, stupid people.
Don't let your stance on the EU blind you to Syriza's stupidity. Sometimes, your enemy's enemy is not your friend
Well things have fallen apart in Greece quicker than I thought was going to be the case. DAX futures down 4.5%, Euro down at 1.10 against USD down over 1.5%. German 10 yr bund only off just over 0.5%. Between now and the end of September we should get a last move higher in the short end of government debt (and widespread negative yield on the short dated European sovereigns in the core Euro area plus Switzerland of course). Once Greece leaves, the likes of Portugal, Spain, Italy and Ireland should be extremely worried, because the whole game changes, once one leaves, it no longer becomes unthinkable that others will. And once Greece leaves, has a 40-50% long term devaluation with the new drachma (possibly greater in the short term) it will start recovering, and the Greek experience will serve merely to add more petrol to the flames of people in other countries on the periphery wanting to leave this botched and failed currency called the Euro. In the short term until the end of September I think the other peripheral eurozone countries will be ok. Once we get into October, then we should see Portugal as the next weak link to come undone.
And all too clearly now, we have a eurocracy in Brussels that couldn't care less about the people in Eurozone, but wants to preserve the Euro at all costs, and by extension their jobs by any means, even if that means running policies completely counter to what the people in the periphery of the Eurozone want. And to any europhile seeking to defend this sad state of affairs, was this really the European dream that Monnet et al had in mind 60 years ago to put the European project above the democratic will of the people - of course not, and the whole wretched project can't die of death too soon.