Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize simply because he wasn't George W Bush. Al Gore got one for being a thick politician who understands nothing about science.
The EU causes crisis and suffering, it doesn't solve it.
Sorry Richard, it was a sarcastic reply to one of Putin's fanboys.
Why is it we can put men on the moon, but we can't come up with a universal sign for sarcasm on the internet?
No worries TSE. You are right, spotting sarcasm right on the internet is harder than getting Sheldon to understand it.
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize simply because he wasn't George W Bush. Al Gore got one for being a thick politician who understands nothing about science.
The EU causes crisis and suffering, it doesn't solve it.
Sorry Richard, it was a sarcastic reply to one of Putin's fanboys.
Why is it we can put men on the moon, but we can't come up with a universal sign for sarcasm on the internet?
You really don't get it do you? I'm not a 'fanboy' of anyone - you're describing yourself. I support what you call a 'joke' party, a party that is widely mocked and loathed, because in all good conscience I cannot support a party when I don't subscribe to their political direction of travel. I know that UKIP can be a joke sometimes - if I wanted to be a political gloryseeker I'd still be a Tory. Likewise I support a realistic, independent and pro-British position on Russia, as opposed to unjustified and undeserved US support and dangerous warmongering. That's the difference between our political positions - mine are consistent with my values and what I believe to be the truth, no matter how unpopular they may make me. Yours seem to be based entirely on a desire to belong.
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize simply because he wasn't George W Bush. Al Gore got one for being a thick politician who understands nothing about science.
The EU causes crisis and suffering, it doesn't solve it.
Sorry Richard, it was a sarcastic reply to one of Putin's fanboys.
Why is it we can put men on the moon, but we can't come up with a universal sign for sarcasm on the internet?
No worries TSE. You are right, spotting sarcasm right on the internet is harder than getting Sheldon to understand it.
All sarcastic posts on PB should now be signed off with Bazinga.
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
Because Greece gives an object lesson on what happens if you go "lah, lah, we can go on our own, everything is peachy, nothing bad will happen...oh, shiiiit"
And the award for most desperately tortured anti-logic goes to...
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
Bet Putin's really scared of a Nobel prize (!)
Ok the EU helps but seriously what really matters is a US commitment of its armed forces in the event of Russian tanks rolling. Russia would lose (well we all would but he sure wouldn't win). Putin knows that. Waving Nobel prizes in his face or having the Commission issue a statement wouldn't matter a stuff.
Fortunately I doubt Putin's that daft. Russia's got big problems itself and is probably weaker than it appears it is. As long as the U.S. remains ready to act as the cavalry that is.
Putin is scared of the gays, I think he's all fart and no follow through, as we say in Yorkshire.
Indeed.
He has no " soft power " it's all hard cash or tanks. Ultimately their economy pretty much relies on digging or piping stuff out of the ground which is volatile at best - see oil price of late.
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
Because Greece gives an object lesson on what happens if you go "lah, lah, we can go on our own, everything is peachy, nothing bad will happen...oh, shiiiit"
And the award for most desperately tortured anti-logic goes to...
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize simply because he wasn't George W Bush. Al Gore got one for being a thick politician who understands nothing about science.
The EU causes crisis and suffering, it doesn't solve it.
Sorry Richard, it was a sarcastic reply to one of Putin's fanboys.
Why is it we can put men on the moon, but we can't come up with a universal sign for sarcasm on the internet?
You really don't get it do you? I'm not a 'fanboy' of anyone - you're describing yourself. I support what you call a 'joke' party, a party that is widely mocked and loathed, because in all good conscience I cannot support a party when I don't subscribe to their political direction of travel. I know that UKIP can be a joke sometimes - if I wanted to be a political gloryseeker I'd still be a Tory. Likewise I support a realistic, independent and pro-British position on Russia, as opposed to unjustified and undeserved US support and dangerous warmongering. That's the difference between our political positions - mine are consistent with my values and what I believe to be the truth, no matter how unpopular they may make me. Yours seem to be based entirely on a desire to belong.
I was a Tory from 1997 onwards, for the first decade or so, the Tory party wasn't the optimal place for a glory seeker
PS if a party that polls 37% is widely loathed, what about a party that polled 14%?
TSE - Why do you refer to George Osborne presenting his "emergency" budget. Has it ever been categorised elsewhere as such? Such a description is all the more surprising given all the positive aspects relating to the economy as reported by the same Chancellor barely 4 months ago and the protestations from just about every other political party as well as from such luminaries as Charlotte Church for far less austerity in fact?
The Telegraph, inter alia, call it the emergency budget
What is the emergency Budget? The emergency Budget will be held on July 8 2015
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize simply because he wasn't George W Bush. Al Gore got one for being a thick politician who understands nothing about science.
The EU causes crisis and suffering, it doesn't solve it.
Sorry Richard, it was a sarcastic reply to one of Putin's fanboys.
Why is it we can put men on the moon, but we can't come up with a universal sign for sarcasm on the internet?
You really don't get it do you? I'm not a 'fanboy' of anyone - you're describing yourself. I support what you call a 'joke' party, a party that is widely mocked and loathed, because in all good conscience I cannot support a party when I don't subscribe to their political direction of travel. I know that UKIP can be a joke sometimes - if I wanted to be a political gloryseeker I'd still be a Tory. Likewise I support a realistic, independent and pro-British position on Russia, as opposed to unjustified and undeserved US support and dangerous warmongering. That's the difference between our political positions - mine are consistent with my values and what I believe to be the truth, no matter how unpopular they may make me. Yours seem to be based entirely on a desire to belong.
I was a Tory from 1997 onwards, for the first decade or so, the Tory party wasn't the optimal place for a glory seeker
No, but it was still our 'tribe' - and that's hard to let go of. But in my opinion when your Vicar stops believing in God, there's not much point in listening to his sermons, and when the Tory leadership stops believing in Britain, there's no point in the party. There's nothing left except blue rosettes and better cut suits than the other side. That's not democracy and it's not good enough.
I was just wondering why the Greeks could not carry on and just use the euro.
Everybody in the news media has assumed that a Grexit will proceed like Argentina's devaluation did: president throws a snit, capital controls imposed, corralito, banks overstamp notes, etc. I've argued that an alternative is 90's Latvia (for the Eurogroup) and Russia (for Greece). Russia fell apart and printed ad absurdum, Latvia redenominated from rouble to whatever (lek? Lat?) on an emergency basis: it took them 18 months to convert.
A currency is worth what people will pay for it, and that is dependent on demand and supply. Supply of New Drachma is difficult to predict, and I assume there are experts on here who can guess better than I. So let's look at demand: who wants a New Drachma? Tourists? No, they will just take Euros and spend Euros in the hotels and bars. Goods purchasers? Nope, because Greece suppliers will cheerfully take Euros. Plumbers, taxi drivers, screw manufacturers? No, no, and no again: they aren't using New Drachma, you can't make them use it, so....why would they?
So my question, posed on PB recently, and posed here again is: who will need to buy a New Drachma to do something? What is the demand? And the answer may actually be...nobody.
A New Drachma may be worth literally nothing.
Civil servants and pensioners (more than half the Greek population combined) will be paid in them. Banks will only be allowed to issue them and those who are smart enough to have domestic overdrafts may come out ahead. The local populace will have little choice but to accept them.
Where I think you are right is that it may be a considerable time until the New Drachma becomes internationally tradable. We are likely to have a situation such as we had with the old Soviet bloc where there was an official rate of exchange and a much more commonly used and much, much lower unofficial rate.
Greece will need to find ways to get its population to repatriate their Euros over time. It will not be able to feed itself unless it does. I also suspect that, as in the old Soviet Union, there will be the equivalent of dollar shops where locals will be able to buy a range of imported goods not generally available for hard currency only, no questions asked.
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize simply because he wasn't George W Bush. Al Gore got one for being a thick politician who understands nothing about science.
The EU causes crisis and suffering, it doesn't solve it.
Sorry Richard, it was a sarcastic reply to one of Putin's fanboys.
Why is it we can put men on the moon, but we can't come up with a universal sign for sarcasm on the internet?
You really don't get it do you? I'm not a 'fanboy' of anyone - you're describing yourself. I support what you call a 'joke' party, a party that is widely mocked and loathed, because in all good conscience I cannot support a party when I don't subscribe to their political direction of travel. I know that UKIP can be a joke sometimes - if I wanted to be a political gloryseeker I'd still be a Tory. Likewise I support a realistic, independent and pro-British position on Russia, as opposed to unjustified and undeserved US support and dangerous warmongering. That's the difference between our political positions - mine are consistent with my values and what I believe to be the truth, no matter how unpopular they may make me. Yours seem to be based entirely on a desire to belong.
I was a Tory from 1997 onwards, for the first decade or so, the Tory party wasn't the optimal place for a glory seeker
PS if a party that polls 37% is widely loathed, what about a party that polled 14%?
I don't think you understood - I'm saying UKIP are widely loathed.
Front page of the Sunday Times says Boris is going call for a No vote.
So Boris to lead the OUT campaign?
Edit - Not quite
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
In a stance that puts him on a collision course with the prime minister, the mayor of London believes Britain should reject any deal Cameron puts forward because the EU will not give enough ground.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum.
Johnson said: “We need to be bold. You have to show them that you are serious.”
The mayor’s views, shared with friends last week, will send shockwaves through Downing Street. Both the “yes” and “no” camps had assumed that he would support Cameron in arguing for Britain to vote yes.
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
Because Greece gives an object lesson on what happens if you go "lah, lah, we can go on our own, everything is peachy, nothing bad will happen...oh, shiiiit"
And the award for most desperately tortured anti-logic goes to...
You asked me for a reason. I gave you one.
Not that I noticed.
In (what passes for) my professional career, I have long ago become reconciled to the fact that my job ends when the information is provided: expecting people to act on it is a heartbreak waiting to happen.
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize simply because he wasn't George W Bush. Al Gore got one for being a thick politician who understands nothing about science.
The EU causes crisis and suffering, it doesn't solve it.
Sorry Richard, it was a sarcastic reply to one of Putin's fanboys.
Why is it we can put men on the moon, but we can't come up with a universal sign for sarcasm on the internet?
Ah, so you're one of those who thinks we put men on the moon.
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize simply because he wasn't George W Bush. Al Gore got one for being a thick politician who understands nothing about science.
The EU causes crisis and suffering, it doesn't solve it.
Sorry Richard, it was a sarcastic reply to one of Putin's fanboys.
Why is it we can put men on the moon, but we can't come up with a universal sign for sarcasm on the internet?
Ah, so you're one of those who thinks we put men on the moon.
Having watched the Minions movie today, they also say the moon landings were faked.
Front page of the Sunday Times says Boris is going call for a No vote. So Boris to lead the OUT campaign? Edit - Not quite BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding. ... Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum. Johnson said: “We need to be bold. You have to show them that you are serious.” ...
Going for the Oliver Twist vote? The flaw with this - assuming Boris is serious and actually would like to stay in - is that the EU would say bye bye. The other flaw is that the deal might actually be a good one when it arrives. But trying to decypher what Boris is really saying when its public is bad enough, let alone when it is retranslated from private conversations with friends.
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
So we have a first referendum to stay in the EU, we vote "No", we go to the EU and say "give us more or we leave", they say "No"...then what? We leave twice? Really, really leave?
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize simply because he wasn't George W Bush. Al Gore got one for being a thick politician who understands nothing about science.
The EU causes crisis and suffering, it doesn't solve it.
Sorry Richard, it was a sarcastic reply to one of Putin's fanboys.
Why is it we can put men on the moon, but we can't come up with a universal sign for sarcasm on the internet?
You really don't get it do you? I'm not a 'fanboy' of anyone - you're describing yourself. I support what you call a 'joke' party, a party that is widely mocked and loathed, because in all good conscience I cannot support a party when I don't subscribe to their political direction of travel. I know that UKIP can be a joke sometimes - if I wanted to be a political gloryseeker I'd still be a Tory. Likewise I support a realistic, independent and pro-British position on Russia, as opposed to unjustified and undeserved US support and dangerous warmongering. That's the difference between our political positions - mine are consistent with my values and what I believe to be the truth, no matter how unpopular they may make me. Yours seem to be based entirely on a desire to belong.
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
So we have a first referendum to stay in the EU, we vote "No", we go to the EU and say "give us more or we leave", they say "No"...then what? We leave twice? Really, really leave?
Quite frankly it is also undemocratic.
I've said, were we to vote to leave, I would accept it, as should everyone else.
It looks as if is the fact that the Euro, and perhaps not even European Union are "irreversible" may at last be too plain for anyone sane to deny. If so, this is a great day for the peoples of Europe.
Nothing is irreversible.
The EU, the Eurozone, Russia, the United Kingdom, Islam, Christianity, humanity and the sun.
One day, all will be gone.
At some point in the future, the last person to utter the words "the United Kingdom" (itself many many millenia after the UK is no more) will themselves die, and with it all knowledge of what we built.
However there will still be an AV thread in the offing.
If it wasn't for the Greek tragedy and your and Antifrank's guest pieces, I would have run my AV thread this week.
But i can read between the lines, you want me to run it PDQ. I shall endeavour to meet everyone's desire for an AV thread in the next 72 hours.
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize simply because he wasn't George W Bush. Al Gore got one for being a thick politician who understands nothing about science.
The EU causes crisis and suffering, it doesn't solve it.
Sorry Richard, it was a sarcastic reply to one of Putin's fanboys.
Why is it we can put men on the moon, but we can't come up with a universal sign for sarcasm on the internet?
Ah, so you're one of those who thinks we put men on the moon.
Having watched the Minions movie today, they also say the moon landings were faked.
I'm so confused now
Watched the Minions film with the wife and kids this afternoon. First time in a long time I have heard such a consistently high level of laughter from the audience.
Not a perfect film and maybe not as good as the Despicable Me films but it certainly plays to its strengths and deserves better than the critics have been giving it.
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
Actually, I'll go to town on this if you'll forgive me. Could somebody give me a recent example of using a second referendum to try to extract a better deal after rejecting a long and painful renegotiation? Anybody? Anybody?
luckyguy1983 As far as I see it Cameron and Hammond/Hague have arguable been more aggressive to Russia than Obama/Kerry, especially when, Alaska apart, Russia is closer to our doorstep
Can anyone give ONE good reason why we're part of this (EU) mess? Exit please, ta.
As a bulwark against the vile Vladimir Putin and his imperialist ambitions for Russia.
That's NATO
Both play a part.
Remember the EU received a Nobel Peace Prize, NATO has never received such an award.
That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize simply because he wasn't George W Bush. Al Gore got one for being a thick politician who understands nothing about science.
The EU causes crisis and suffering, it doesn't solve it.
Sorry Richard, it was a sarcastic reply to one of Putin's fanboys.
Why is it we can put men on the moon, but we can't come up with a universal sign for sarcasm on the internet?
Ah, so you're one of those who thinks we put men on the moon.
Having watched the Minions movie today, they also say the moon landings were faked.
I'm so confused now
Watched the Minions film with the wife and kids this afternoon. First time in a long time I have heard such a consistently high level of laughter from the audience.
Not a perfect film and maybe not as good as the Despicable Me films but it certainly plays to its strengths and deserves better than the critics have been giving it.
It was enjoyable, the critics were wrong, that said, I do feel the Minions work best when they are interacting with Gru.
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
Actually, I'll go to town on this if you'll forgive me. Could somebody give me a recent example of using a second referendum to try to extract a better deal after rejecting a long and painful renegotiation? Anybody? Anybody?
Fortunately, a field test of Boris's plan will be available this week. What lucky timing!
At least Greece will soon be able to start the recovery process once their outside the Euro. If they rise, like a Pheonix From The Ashes, in the next couple of years. watch out for Italy, Spain and Portugal all clamoring for the exit...
I hope that they do quickly recover. I fear that they will not. Their behavior does not inspire confidence
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
So we have a first referendum to stay in the EU, we vote "No", we go to the EU and say "give us more or we leave", they say "No"...then what? We leave twice? Really, really leave?
Quite frankly it is also undemocratic.
I've said, were we to vote to leave, I would accept it, as should everyone else.
It's also f****** around. Say what you like about Cameron (and I have serious disagreements with him wrt ECHR) he does have a good record in telling you what he wants to do, then going ahead and doing it unapologetically. Boris's approach involves lying to the other countries then lying to the voters.
"It's been more than thirty years since the wolf and the winter cold. And now, as then, a beast approaches; patient and confident, savoring the meal to come. This beast is made of men and horses, swords and spears. An army of slaves vast beyond imagining, ready to devour tiny Greece, ready to snuff out the world's one hope for reason and justice. A beast approaches."
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
Actually, I'll go to town on this if you'll forgive me. Could somebody give me a recent example of using a second referendum to try to extract a better deal after rejecting a long and painful renegotiation? Anybody? Anybody?
Denmark, over the Maastricht Treaty, would be the best example.
I'm pretty confident that the next Conservative leadership contest will be a continuity candidate versus the biggest beast that backs the Out campaign. It's hard to think of a bigger beast than Johnson that could fill the latter role.
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
Actually, I'll go to town on this if you'll forgive me. Could somebody give me a recent example of using a second referendum to try to extract a better deal after rejecting a long and painful renegotiation? Anybody? Anybody?
Denmark, over the Maastricht Treaty, would be the best example.
TSE That 'cunning plan' is why Cummings is a classic example of why some people are too clever for their own good!
Absolutely. I was laughing as I read it. He has overthought the whole thing on such a grand scale.
Stark contrast with the Scottish nationalists, who were so much better informed than unionists for the IndyRef. The NO campaign just seem to be much better confused than their opponents.
I'm pretty confident that the next Conservative leadership contest will be a continuity candidate versus the biggest beast that backs the Out campaign. It's hard to think of a bigger beast than Johnson that could fill the latter role.
But a combination of a defeat for Out, the fact that Boris is known to be pro-EU at heart, and his perceived disloyalty would surely be very damaging for his chances.
At least Greece will soon be able to start the recovery process once their outside the Euro. If they rise, like a Pheonix From The Ashes, in the next couple of years. watch out for Italy, Spain and Portugal all clamoring for the exit...
It would be interesting to see who would lend them money and how many of them would pay their taxes.
Pretty transparent positioning from Boris. And so therefore rather contemptible. He must realise his best chance of being Tory leader is being on the side Dave isn't on and winning, but he can't quite summon the courage to make a proper stand, just in case he calls it wrong, so has come up with this pretty pathetic wheeze. And all through "friends". They must be pretty close to him to make the front page on this weekend.
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
So we have a first referendum to stay in the EU, we vote "No", we go to the EU and say "give us more or we leave", they say "No"...then what? We leave twice? Really, really leave?
Quite frankly it is also undemocratic.
I've said, were we to vote to leave, I would accept it, as should everyone else.
Just like the Nats & 'once in a generation' SindyRef......?
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
So we have a first referendum to stay in the EU, we vote "No", we go to the EU and say "give us more or we leave", they say "No"...then what? We leave twice? Really, really leave?
Quite frankly it is also undemocratic.
I've said, were we to vote to leave, I would accept it, as should everyone else.
Just like the Nats & 'once in a generation' SindyRef......?
To be fair to them, who could have predicted the fundamental change of Dave making a cup of tea with one sugar rather than two?
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
So we have a first referendum to stay in the EU, we vote "No", we go to the EU and say "give us more or we leave", they say "No"...then what? We leave twice? Really, really leave?
Quite frankly it is also undemocratic.
I've said, were we to vote to leave, I would accept it, as should everyone else.
Just like the Nats & 'once in a generation' SindyRef......?
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
So we have a first referendum to stay in the EU, we vote "No", we go to the EU and say "give us more or we leave", they say "No"...then what? We leave twice? Really, really leave?
Quite frankly it is also undemocratic.
I've said, were we to vote to leave, I would accept it, as should everyone else.
Just like the Nats & 'once in a generation' SindyRef......?
To be fair to them, who could have predicted the fundamental change of Dave making a cup of tea with one sugar rather than two?
It gets worse....he put the tea in before the milk......case for another SindyRef unanswerable.....
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
So we have a first referendum to stay in the EU, we vote "No", we go to the EU and say "give us more or we leave", they say "No"...then what? We leave twice? Really, really leave?
Quite frankly it is also undemocratic.
I've said, were we to vote to leave, I would accept it, as should everyone else.
Just like the Nats & 'once in a generation' SindyRef......?
To be fair to them, who could have predicted the fundamental change of Dave making a cup of tea with one sugar rather than two?
It gets worse....he put the tea in before the milk......case for another SindyRef unanswerable.....
“Greek people are hereby asked to decide whether they accept a draft agreement document submitted by the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund, at the Eurogroup meeting held on on June 25 and which consists of two documents:
‘‘The first document is called Reforms for the Completion of the Current Program and Beyond and the second document is called Preliminary Debt Sustainability Analysis.
‘‘- Those citizens who reject the institutions’ proposal vote Not Approved / NO
‘‘- Those citizens who accept the institutions’ proposal vote Approved / YES.’’
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum
So we have a first referendum to stay in the EU, we vote "No", we go to the EU and say "give us more or we leave", they say "No"...then what? We leave twice? Really, really leave?
Quite frankly it is also undemocratic.
I've said, were we to vote to leave, I would accept it, as should everyone else.
It's also f****** around. Say what you like about Cameron (and I have serious disagreements with him wrt ECHR) he does have a good record in telling you what he wants to do, then going ahead and doing it unapologetically.
The other one has bells on it...
Is this Cast Iron Dave, him of the reducing immigration below 100,000 that we are talking about here ? No ifs, no buts ?
Comment seen in an in-game chat channel: " you just have to look a Greece to realize that reality and what people think have only a passing resemblance to each other"
During the UK election, in the same chat channel, a particularly poor play was described as being performing nearly as incompetently as Miliband eating a bacon sandwich, to the confusion of the Americans present.
Obviously, these comments aren't any more representative than random pub conversations, but they are a modern version of the same thing, giving some rough indication of popular mood in the appropriate demographic. When your sandwich eating is treated as the standard for incompetence by pretty non-political 20-somethings, that's a pretty good sign you've got an image problem.
Likewise, the comment quoted above suggests a lot of normal people think Greece has lost touch with reality.
Comment seen in an in-game chat channel: " you just have to look a Greece to realize that reality and what people think have only a passing resemblance to each other"
During the UK election, in the same chat channel, a particularly poor play was described as being performing nearly as incompetently as Miliband eating a bacon sandwich, to the confusion of the Americans present.
Obviously, these comments aren't any more representative than random pub conversations, but they are a modern version of the same thing, giving some rough indication of popular mood in the appropriate demographic. When your sandwich eating is treated as the standard for incompetence by pretty non-political 20-somethings, that's a pretty good sign you've got an image problem.
Likewise, the comment quoted above suggests a lot of normal people think Greece has lost touch with reality.
Comments
He has no " soft power " it's all hard cash or tanks. Ultimately their economy pretty much relies on digging or piping stuff out of the ground which is volatile at best - see oil price of late.
PS if a party that polls 37% is widely loathed, what about a party that polled 14%?
Bazinga.
Where I think you are right is that it may be a considerable time until the New Drachma becomes internationally tradable. We are likely to have a situation such as we had with the old Soviet bloc where there was an official rate of exchange and a much more commonly used and much, much lower unofficial rate.
Greece will need to find ways to get its population to repatriate their Euros over time. It will not be able to feed itself unless it does. I also suspect that, as in the old Soviet Union, there will be the equivalent of dollar shops where locals will be able to buy a range of imported goods not generally available for hard currency only, no questions asked.
So Boris to lead the OUT campaign?
Edit - Not quite
BORIS JOHNSON is preparing to call for a “no” vote in Britain’s referendum on the European Union in an attempt to extract greater concessions from Brussels than David Cameron is demanding.
In a stance that puts him on a collision course with the prime minister, the mayor of London believes Britain should reject any deal Cameron puts forward because the EU will not give enough ground.
Johnson has told friends that a “no” vote is desirable because it would prompt Brussels to offer a much better deal, which the public could then support in a second referendum.
Johnson said: “We need to be bold. You have to show them that you are serious.”
The mayor’s views, shared with friends last week, will send shockwaves through Downing Street. Both the “yes” and “no” camps had assumed that he would support Cameron in arguing for Britain to vote yes.
This means, I have to write a new morning thread.
Bloody Boris.
I'm so confused now
The flaw with this - assuming Boris is serious and actually would like to stay in - is that the EU would say bye bye.
The other flaw is that the deal might actually be a good one when it arrives. But trying to decypher what Boris is really saying when its public is bad enough, let alone when it is retranslated from private conversations with friends.
I've said, were we to vote to leave, I would accept it, as should everyone else.
If they rise, like a Pheonix From The Ashes, in the next couple of years. watch out for Italy, Spain and Portugal all clamoring for the exit...
Not a perfect film and maybe not as good as the Despicable Me films but it certainly plays to its strengths and deserves better than the critics have been giving it.
I can understand how a very narrow OUT result followed by a disastrous few years outside the EU could precipitate a fresh vote
I can understand how a narrow IN followed by all Cameron's/EU's promises turning out o be so much do-do could precipitate a fresh vote.
I simply can't envisage how we could go into a referendum saying we want an OUT vote and then we want you to vote again and vote IN.
It is just not logical or reasonable.
Surely even on the Internet that one wouldn't be taken as serious though?
"It's been more than thirty years since the wolf and the winter cold. And now, as then, a beast approaches; patient and confident, savoring the meal to come. This beast is made of men and horses, swords and spears. An army of slaves vast beyond imagining, ready to devour tiny Greece, ready to snuff out the world's one hope for reason and justice. A beast approaches."
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/no-campaign-chief-pushes-idea-of-two-referendums/
Stark contrast with the Scottish nationalists, who were so much better informed than unionists for the IndyRef. The NO campaign just seem to be much better confused than their opponents.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Harold_Macmillan#Disputed
Me. Just then
https://twitter.com/tsipras_eu/status/614936803603316736
“Greek people are hereby asked to decide whether they accept a draft agreement document submitted by the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund, at the Eurogroup meeting held on on June 25 and which consists of two documents:
‘‘The first document is called Reforms for the Completion of the Current Program and Beyond and the second document is called Preliminary Debt Sustainability Analysis.
‘‘- Those citizens who reject the institutions’ proposal vote Not Approved / NO
‘‘- Those citizens who accept the institutions’ proposal vote Approved / YES.’’
Jacques Delors has been awarded the title "Honorary Citizen of Europe".
http://www.delorsinstitute.eu/011-21478-Jacques-Delors-awarded-the-title-of-Honorary-Citizen-of-Europe-by-the-European-Council-of-25-and-26.html
Is this Cast Iron Dave, him of the reducing immigration below 100,000 that we are talking about here ? No ifs, no buts ?
During the UK election, in the same chat channel, a particularly poor play was described as being performing nearly as incompetently as Miliband eating a bacon sandwich, to the confusion of the Americans present.
Obviously, these comments aren't any more representative than random pub conversations, but they are a modern version of the same thing, giving some rough indication of popular mood in the appropriate demographic. When your sandwich eating is treated as the standard for incompetence by pretty non-political 20-somethings, that's a pretty good sign you've got an image problem.
Likewise, the comment quoted above suggests a lot of normal people think Greece has lost touch with reality.
I want one from Vulgaria.