Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile in the LAB leadership battle Andy Burnham sends a

13

Comments

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Miss Plato, my French teacher did that. If we didn't correct the deliberate mistakes on the blackboard quickly enough we got a telling off.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    @suttonnick: Independent on Sunday via @lisamarkwell
    Chilcot: PM urged to pull the plug
    #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/yrBq2OWuCG
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    I feel like I'm about to throw a box full of laxatives into the monkey house, but here goes.

    THE historian David Starkey, never short of an outspoken word, has turned his ire on the Scottish National party, likening them to the Nazis and the Saltire to the swastika.

    In an interview with The Sunday Times, Starkey, 70, said the way the SNP blamed the English for Scotland’s woes was similar to how Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany’s ruin after the First World War.

    The historian, a regular member of the panel on BBC1’s Question Time, made a detailed comparison between the SNP and the Nazis, even trying to draw a joke out of the desire to wear kilts and lederhosen.

    http://thetim.es/1IRT291

    Starkey is actually insane.
    Homophobe :)
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Plato said:

    Before Godwin's Law and the Nazis - who were the default bogeymen?

    The Ottoman Turks.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. M, indeed.

    Hmm. Can't think many chaps would've got that right.

    Tenth, and last: the emperor who whose mutilation of a rival instigated a prolonged period of the practice in Byzantium.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    edited June 2015

    Miss Plato, my French teacher did that. If we didn't correct the deliberate mistakes on the blackboard quickly enough we got a telling off.

    I guessing your history/Classics teacher made deliberate mistakes as well but you never noticed :lol:
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 733
    edited June 2015

    Of the two, Andy Burnham's text is even bizarrely worded than Liz Kendall's. "I'm running to lead our party & want to be part of the changes we need to make. What's your priority?".

    It's that 'and'. It makes it sound as if even if he's elected, there's a chance that the changes will take place while he's on holiday or locked in the lavatory or something.

    The text says "I'm running to lead our party & want you to be part of the changes ....".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    He is referring to the introduction of oil fuel for ships. Welsh coal was very good (usable BTU/ton). It was sent round the world as vast expense for special applications - the Japanese had a stock of Welsh coal they reserved for the Battle of Tsushima.

    The problem was that it was very expensive to extract. Oil delivered even more BTU/ton and was cheaper, plus it needed many fewer crew to operate.

    Oil fuel was developed into an effective form by the Royal Navy - getting it to burn properly was a substantial piece of research that took a number of years. Once the technique was available, it spread rapidly post WWI.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    GeoffM said:

    Mr. M, time for a hard one, as the nun said to the schoolboys.

    Ninth: who succeeded Aurelian?

    I read Tacitus at school and translated it as homework. But then again, I was privately educated in an age when learning Latin wasn't sneered at by the socialism scum who these days take joy in dragging our education system ever downwards.
    My Latin master.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/7404789.stm
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. Eagles, when it comes to classical history you have the confidence of Crassus before Carrhae.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    GeoffM said:

    Mr. M, time for a hard one, as the nun said to the schoolboys.

    Ninth: who succeeded Aurelian?

    I read Tacitus at school and translated it as homework. But then again, I was privately educated in an age when learning Latin wasn't sneered at by the socialism scum who these days take joy in dragging our education system ever downwards.
    Did you study Catullus 16 at school ?
    LOL I'm not sure our Latin master would have approved.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Speaking of Horsemen and tangentially Ovid, I saw a remarkable Horizon about metamorphosis. Locust swarming behaviour is a form of this/changes their colouring from solitary grasshopper green to locust yellow/black. And it can be reversed as necessary according to the local environment.

    Mr. M, the Romans hated Punic faith. Bloody rotten cheats, using tactics and strategy :p

    Also, what's your answer?

    [I would've liked to learn Latin but it was, unfortunately, a forced choice between that or German, whereas foul French was forced upon me].

    Ms. Apocalypse, I do apologise. [You don't have four equestrian sons, do you?]

    I keep hoping some noisy politically correct people will get annoyed with Sir Edric and give me a bucketload of publicity.

    Miss Plato, I must agree entirely. It's a disgrace.

  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    I think, perhaps, that you should do more research.

    Germany (that well known technologically backward country) was still using steam locomotives in the 1970s!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive#Germany

    The reason was that they wanted to get their full use out of their locomotives. Britain, OTOH, scrapped a lot of locos prematurely (for several reasons).
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Miss Plato, changes like that are most peculiar. Did you know komodo dragons are capable of parthenogenesis?

    If a lady dragon gets marooned on a lonely island, she can create viable eggs without needing a gentleman dragon.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981

    Mr. Eagles, when it comes to classical history you have the confidence of Crassus before Carrhae.

    Could be worse, I could have all the confidence of Hannibal after Zama.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Mr. M, the Romans hated Punic faith. Bloody rotten cheats, using tactics and strategy :p

    Also, what's your answer?

    [I would've liked to learn Latin but it was, unfortunately, a forced choice between that or German, whereas foul French was forced upon me].

    Ms. Apocalypse, I do apologise. [You don't have four equestrian sons, do you?]

    I keep hoping some noisy politically correct people will get annoyed with Sir Edric and give me a bucketload of publicity.

    Miss Plato, I must agree entirely. It's a disgrace.

    No, I do not have four equestrian sons - I think it's a bit too early in my life for kids!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. Eagles, when he was the ruler of Carthage?

    I'd take that over having my skull used as a goblet.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Mr. M, time for a hard one, as the nun said to the schoolboys.

    Ninth: who succeeded Aurelian?

    I read Tacitus at school and translated it as homework. But then again, I was privately educated in an age when learning Latin wasn't sneered at by the socialism scum who these days take joy in dragging our education system ever downwards.
    Did you study Catullus 16 at school ?
    LOL I'm not sure our Latin master would have approved.
    We had the best Latin teacher, he made us aware of it.

    Had us hooked on Latin after that.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    The Northeastern Railway had electric locos as early as 1914. So there!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_EF1
    Discontinued in 1935 to move back to Steam.

    Since the Industrial Revolution, the UK has been utterly opposed to innovation. The way the UK botched the internet is still costing us Billions.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Dair said:

    GeoffM said:

    Mr. M, time for a hard one, as the nun said to the schoolboys.

    Ninth: who succeeded Aurelian?

    I read Tacitus at school and translated it as homework. But then again, I was privately educated in an age when learning Latin wasn't sneered at by the socialism scum who these days take joy in dragging our education system ever downwards.
    My Latin master.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/7404789.stm
    Mine had a heart attack during a lesson right in front of us.
    He passed away as he would have wanted - mortar board clutched to his head.
    RIP Mr S.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    edited June 2015
    It's a tragedy for the Greeks.

    Greece have been beaten by the Faroe Islands in tonight's Soccerball match.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. Eagles, just checked. Population of the Faroes is around 50,000. That's not even twice Monaco.

    Seems rather symbolic.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    FT: Gib 0 - Germany 7

    I had money on 8-0 and hope on fewer. So I'm still happy with that.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    It's a remarkable bit of evolution.

    Miss Plato, changes like that are most peculiar. Did you know komodo dragons are capable of parthenogenesis?

    If a lady dragon gets marooned on a lonely island, she can create viable eggs without needing a gentleman dragon.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I always associate that with Vikings in Valhalla.

    Mr. Eagles, when he was the ruler of Carthage?

    I'd take that over having my skull used as a goblet.

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Mr. M, indeed.

    Hmm. Can't think many chaps would've got that right.

    Tenth, and last: the emperor who whose mutilation of a rival instigated a prolonged period of the practice in Byzantium.

    As I said earlier by way of explanation, Mr Dancer, I am very familiar with Tacitus. I have the Annals on my bookcase here so I regard that as a much easier question than you seem to!

    This last one, on the other hand, seems to be an opinion-based one. I will need a think and a guess.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    And the FBI wayback machine rumbles on
    A $160 million deal between Nike and Brazil is being investigated by US authorities on suspicion of corruption, it has been reported.

    It comes amid a far-reaching probe into soccer's governing body FIFA, which has seen the arrest of 10 senior officials suspected of fraud.

    Central to the investigation is a 1996 sponsorship deal between Nike and Brazil, the Wall Street Journal reported.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3122398/U-S-probes-Nike-payments-Brazil-soccer-deal-WSJ.html#ixzz3cyjyLhp9
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981

    Mr. Eagles, just checked. Population of the Faroes is around 50,000. That's not even twice Monaco.

    Seems rather symbolic.

    Depending on events and how I feel, the morning thread (or the afternoon thread) will be about Greece, and features a reference to Classical History (eat your heart out David Herdson)
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Dair said:


    Since the Industrial Revolution, the UK has been utterly opposed to innovation.

    I've read some strange stuff on PB threads, but that is the most bizarre!

    "utterly opposed to innovation" - do you really believe that?

    Go and sit down in a quiet room with a glass of water for an hour and calm down.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    edited June 2015
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    The Northeastern Railway had electric locos as early as 1914. So there!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_EF1
    Discontinued in 1935 to move back to Steam.
    The line from London Liverpool Street to Shenfield via my home-patch, Ilford, was electrified as early as 1949. The multiple units introduced back then even had sliding doors.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_306

    I revisited the line today to mark its recent passage to Transport for London operations, in effect being run by Mayor Boris! Even appears an open blue line on the standard Tube Map!

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lYWmqQKjMEk/VHulZg8tYrI/AAAAAAAASdY/Gj0jva5Yg6w/s1600/tubemapmay15.gif
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    edited June 2015
    calum said:

    Some cracking historical tweets about from the time that Unionists thought Murphy was the Sun King incarnate.

    David Maddox ‏@DavidPBMaddox Dec 13
    Looking at the hyperbolic, frenzied tweets from the cybernats tonight clearly the snp are scared sh**less of @jimmurphymp

    Fraser Nelson ‏@FraserNelson Dec 13
    Great news about Jim Murphy. Blairites always were good at winning elections. Now let the restoration begin!

    Iain Martin ‏@iainmartin1 Dec 13
    Nationalists trying to pretend election of @jimmurphymp is a disaster for Labour. It isn't. Good day for Labour, good day for the Union.

    Meanwhile Iain Gray to be caretaker leader for SLAB. I'm guessing everyone's hyperbole buttons will be well muted.

    This is proof the right aren't always the oracle when it comes to who Labour should elect as leader. Not that some right-wing twitter commentators can admit they are wrong, that is. I recall Tom Newton-Dunn's reaction to Murphy's departure. Jesus Christ. Talk about deluded.

    And Fraser Nelson. I actually like him as political commentator (despite not agreeing with him all too much) but my god, as a Scot he should know that if Blairism is going to down badly anywhere, it's probably Scotland. Also Murphy is a personality vaccum.
    Some right howlers on this thread:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/12/13/jim-murphy-wins-scottish-labour-leadership-election-with-56-of-votes-on-first-round/
    This one's even better, from the title piece down.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/12/18/what-makes-jim-murphy-so-dangerous-to-the-snp-is-that-for-the-first-time-in-years-lab-has-a-credible-alternative-first-minister/
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    I think, perhaps, that you should do more research.

    Germany (that well known technologically backward country) was still using steam locomotives in the 1970s!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive#Germany

    The reason was that they wanted to get their full use out of their locomotives. Britain, OTOH, scrapped a lot of locos prematurely (for several reasons).
    You are missing the point. Getting the most use out of existing investment is very different to what happened in the UK. The UK was still investing Government Money in development of steam locomotives in the 1950s and building them into the 1960s.

    Other countries were entirely electric by that date (or much earlier). And the UK was still ploughing taxpayers money into steam engines. Even in 2015 the UK does not have a completely electric railway.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. M, the annals don't go into the third century.

    "Tacitus studied rhetoric in Rome and rose to eminence as a pleader at the Roman Bar. In 77 he married the daughter of Agricola, conqueror of Britain, of whom he later wrote a biography. His other works includethe Germania and the Historiae."

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Annals-Imperial-Rome-Classics/dp/0140440607/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus

    Have you been cheating, you bounder? :p
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2015

    It's a tragedy for the Greeks.

    Greece have been beaten by the Faroe Islands in tonight's Soccerball match.

    Bloody hell. Population = 49,709 according to Wikipedia

    The Faroe Islands might be in the news again on Thursday when they could be the deciding factor in the Danish general election which is on a knife-edge.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    300 is on ITV at 10.30 tonight.

    Absolutely brilliant
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. Eagles, bah. Wasn't impressed when I saw it on TV a little while ago.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    Hilariously wrong on so many levels.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Mr. M, the annals don't go into the third century.

    "Tacitus studied rhetoric in Rome and rose to eminence as a pleader at the Roman Bar. In 77 he married the daughter of Agricola, conqueror of Britain, of whom he later wrote a biography. His other works includethe Germania and the Historiae."

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Annals-Imperial-Rome-Classics/dp/0140440607/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus

    Have you been cheating, you bounder? :p

    I am just wandering idly and more widely from your specific questions into other areas that interest me, so my apologies for muddying the waters.

    I read this last year on my tablet; haven't got it in hard copy. Is it on your reading list? Hellenism in Byzantium: The Transformations of Greek Identity and the Reception of the Classical Tradition" by Anthony Kaldelli

    I'd thought about John Julius Norwich's "Short History of Byzantium" which you mention downthread as your source but was advised it was a bit outdated in its interpretations and was only good as a primer for dates and events. So I accepted the other one as an alternative gift instead. Do you have any other suggestions?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    300 is on ITV at 10.30 tonight.

    Absolutely brilliant

    "Madness? This is PB.com!" - [chucks TSE down well*]

    (* - only kidding!)



  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981

    Mr. Eagles, bah. Wasn't impressed when I saw it on TV a little while ago.

    You must have been in a grumpy mood.

    The sequel/prequel is even better (even if it as historically accurate as an American war movie)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    edited June 2015
    Dair said:

    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    I think, perhaps, that you should do more research.

    Germany (that well known technologically backward country) was still using steam locomotives in the 1970s!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive#Germany

    The reason was that they wanted to get their full use out of their locomotives. Britain, OTOH, scrapped a lot of locos prematurely (for several reasons).
    You are missing the point. Getting the most use out of existing investment is very different to what happened in the UK. The UK was still investing Government Money in development of steam locomotives in the 1950s and building them into the 1960s.

    Other countries were entirely electric by that date (or much earlier). And the UK was still ploughing taxpayers money into steam engines. Even in 2015 the UK does not have a completely electric railway.
    Came back from Coventry to London via Oxford and Reading yesterday - saw the electrification out from London to Bristol is well underway. Scheduled for 2017 operations.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424

    I feel like I'm about to throw a box full of laxatives into the monkey house, but here goes.

    THE historian David Starkey, never short of an outspoken word, has turned his ire on the Scottish National party, likening them to the Nazis and the Saltire to the swastika.

    In an interview with The Sunday Times, Starkey, 70, said the way the SNP blamed the English for Scotland’s woes was similar to how Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany’s ruin after the First World War.

    The historian, a regular member of the panel on BBC1’s Question Time, made a detailed comparison between the SNP and the Nazis, even trying to draw a joke out of the desire to wear kilts and lederhosen.

    http://thetim.es/1IRT291

    Starkey is actually insane.
    He's not insane. He has a fine calculation of the advantages of throwing a deliberately provocative statement to tickle the prejudices of his constituency. Too much and he'd be slapped, too little and he'd be underpaid. He's what you'd get if you took Jeremy Clarkson (the pre-divorce version, before he went off the rails) and removed the in-depth knowledge and sense of humor.

    I could bang on about how Starkey represents everything wrong with this country (overinflated repuation, provocative without reprisal, rewards beyond merit, appointment without virtue, the unending mediocrity of the great and the good) but I'd have to have a lie down. There are good reasons why we don't go down the red-in-tooth-and-claw Hong-Kong/USA version of capitalism, but everytime I see Starkey banging on, the voice in my head says "cut all arts and academic funding to zero and get a proper job already".

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited June 2015
    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:


    Since the Industrial Revolution, the UK has been utterly opposed to innovation.

    I've read some strange stuff on PB threads, but that is the most bizarre!

    "utterly opposed to innovation" - do you really believe that?

    Go and sit down in a quiet room with a glass of water for an hour and calm down.
    I fear we have yet to plumb the full depths of "42 year old I was at school with Fraser Nelson" Dair's ignorance....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    edited June 2015
    Mr. M, hmm.

    No, and, alas, it shan't be on the basis of my Kindle already been stuffed like a glutton's gut and there being several books I want (two by Livy, the Chronographia, the Alexiad, a couple of Crusades and so on) as well.

    I was going to buy another book last year about the Diadochi, but I checked the sample and the author used that Common Era nonsense.

    Also, I got the trilogy on Byzantium, which may well be a different work. [Byzantium: the Early Centuries is book 1].

    Also, there's the latter volumes of Edward Gibbon, of course [but you'd also need the first three because starting at Volume IV would be blasphemy].

    I don't own this, but I considered it a while ago. RHC Davis' A History of Medieval Europe: From Constantine to Saint Louis seems well-regarded.

    Edited extra bit: I really can recommend the Norwich trilogy. It's utterly fantastic, and one of the few histories I've read more than once, cover-to-cover.

    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/book-review-byzantium-by-john-julius.html
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Dair said:


    You are missing the point. Getting the most use out of existing investment is very different to what happened in the UK. The UK was still investing Government Money in development of steam locomotives in the 1950s and building them into the 1960s.

    Other countries were entirely electric by that date (or much earlier). And the UK was still ploughing taxpayers money into steam engines. Even in 2015 the UK does not have a completely electric railway.

    No, Dair, YOU are missing the point.

    Your original sneering comment was "This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s", which coupled with your other nonsensical posting that "Since the Industrial Revolution, the UK has been utterly opposed to innovation." is clearly implying that the UK is backward looking and resistant to new technology.

    My point is that your example of steam locomotives was a bad one (unless you want to call Germany technologically resistant to change as well).

    You merely did what you always do, and changed your tune when you got found out.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I'm astonished Dair is in his 40s - I honestly thought he was about 20 and full of youthful zeal.

    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:


    Since the Industrial Revolution, the UK has been utterly opposed to innovation.

    I've read some strange stuff on PB threads, but that is the most bizarre!

    "utterly opposed to innovation" - do you really believe that?

    Go and sit down in a quiet room with a glass of water for an hour and calm down.
    I fear we have yet to plumb the full depths of "42 year old I was at school with Fraser Nelson" Dair's ignorance....
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 758

    Mr. Eagles, bah. Wasn't impressed when I saw it on TV a little while ago.

    You must have been in a grumpy mood.

    The sequel/prequel is even better (even if it as historically accurate as an American war movie)
    When I watched 300 someone let off a stink bomb in the screening. It was the best part of the film.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Dair said:

    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    I think, perhaps, that you should do more research.

    Germany (that well known technologically backward country) was still using steam locomotives in the 1970s!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive#Germany

    The reason was that they wanted to get their full use out of their locomotives. Britain, OTOH, scrapped a lot of locos prematurely (for several reasons).
    You are missing the point. Getting the most use out of existing investment is very different to what happened in the UK. The UK was still investing Government Money in development of steam locomotives in the 1950s and building them into the 1960s.

    Other countries were entirely electric by that date (or much earlier). And the UK was still ploughing taxpayers money into steam engines. Even in 2015 the UK does not have a completely electric railway.
    Which other countries were 'entirely electic' by that date? Which ones are 'entirely electric' nowadays, aside from small countries like Belgium (nearly) and Switzerland?

    Even Japan was still building steam locomotives in 1960, the year we built our last main-line one (The Evening Star) (*)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive#The_end_of_steam_in_general_use

    Look at it this way. We made our first diesel main-line locomotives in 1948 (a worthy mention to the LMS 10000/10001 twins). Within twelve years of that date we had given up building steam locomotives, and within twenty years diesel and electric had replaced all steam locomotives. That's quite some going.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_D16/1

    You really are clueless on this matter.

    (*) Tornado excepted.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    Monkeys said:

    Mr. Eagles, bah. Wasn't impressed when I saw it on TV a little while ago.

    You must have been in a grumpy mood.

    The sequel/prequel is even better (even if it as historically accurate as an American war movie)
    When I watched 300 someone let off a stink bomb in the screening. It was the best part of the film.
    I'll pretend you didn't just type that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    Public Service Announcement

    My stint as Guest Editor of PB for a period of more than two weeks begins in the next day or so.

    Critical comments about the film 300 increases the likelihood of there being daily threads on AV/electoral reform and Scotland during said stint.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Right, I'm off for the night.

    If you were wondering, Mr. M, the answer was Flavius Phocas, who deposed Maurice and was in turn destroyed by the tragic but splendid emperor Heraclius.

    Night, everyone.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 758

    Public Service Announcement

    My stint as Guest Editor of PB for a period of more than two weeks begins in the next day or so.

    Critical comments about the film 300 increases the likelihood of there being daily threads on AV/electoral reform and Scotland during said stint.

    Amazing film. Best ever.

  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106

    Public Service Announcement

    My stint as Guest Editor of PB for a period of more than two weeks begins in the next day or so.

    Critical comments about the film 300 increases the likelihood of there being daily threads on AV/electoral reform and Scotland during said stint.

    Mr TSE. 300 is the best film that I have ever seen.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Public Service Announcement

    My stint as Guest Editor of PB for a period of more than two weeks begins in the next day or so.

    Critical comments about the film 300 increases the likelihood of there being daily threads on AV/electoral reform and Scotland during said stint.

    "Then we will fight in the shade!" :lol:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    That's more like it, the morning thread will now NOT be "Is AV the only way to save the Union?"
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    Dair said:

    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    I think, perhaps, that you should do more research.

    Germany (that well known technologically backward country) was still using steam locomotives in the 1970s!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive#Germany

    The reason was that they wanted to get their full use out of their locomotives. Britain, OTOH, scrapped a lot of locos prematurely (for several reasons).
    You are missing the point. Getting the most use out of existing investment is very different to what happened in the UK. The UK was still investing Government Money in development of steam locomotives in the 1950s and building them into the 1960s.

    Other countries were entirely electric by that date (or much earlier). And the UK was still ploughing taxpayers money into steam engines. Even in 2015 the UK does not have a completely electric railway.
    Came back from Coventry to London via Oxford and Reading yesterday - saw the electrification out from London to Bristol is well underway. Scheduled for 2017 operations.
    The Thatcher and Major governments electrified many hundreds of miles of railways - the east coast, London to Norwich, London to Cambridge and King's Lynn, and many others.

    The Blair and Brown governments electrified ... nine miles (1), excluding the new-build HS1.

    The Cameron governments are electrifying hundreds more miles.

    The railways do better under the Conservatives than Labour. ;-)

    (1): researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05907/SN05907.pdf
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    That's more like it, the morning thread will now NOT be "Is AV the only way to save the Union?"

    TSE = Xerxes
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Public Service Announcement

    My stint as Guest Editor of PB for a period of more than two weeks begins in the next day or so.

    Critical comments about the film 300 increases the likelihood of there being daily threads on AV/electoral reform and Scotland during said stint.

    300 should be retitled 'Dyson' because it sucks big time from start to finish.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Tim_B said:

    Public Service Announcement

    My stint as Guest Editor of PB for a period of more than two weeks begins in the next day or so.

    Critical comments about the film 300 increases the likelihood of there being daily threads on AV/electoral reform and Scotland during said stint.

    300 should be retitled 'Dyson' because it sucks big time from start to finish.
    Mr Eagles, Sir, he doesn't mean it. Honest.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424

    It's a tragedy for the Greeks.

    Greece have been beaten by the Faroe Islands in tonight's Soccerball match.

    It's not Greece's fault. Greece suffered greatly during WWII and must be given 100 goals a week to spend on pensioner footballers. The Faroe Islanders did not do due diligence and must give them a thousand goals. Angela Merkel is ugly and does not smile: look, there's a cartoon in the Times! - so Germany must give them ten thousand goals. If they fall out of the Eurofootball league the UK must give them emergency funding of ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND GOALS. Greece's population cannot be held responsible for its football players and must receive ONE MILLION GOALS NOW!

    It's not Greece's fault

    It's not Greece's fault.

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited June 2015
    Off-topic: just found this. An item from the 2010 leadership contest with swing voters (SOUTHERN swing voters at that) saw Andy Burnham emerge as the top choice, ahead of both Milibands.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YwOWckI3gs
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Public Service Announcement

    My stint as Guest Editor of PB for a period of more than two weeks begins in the next day or so.

    Critical comments about the film 300 increases the likelihood of there being daily threads on AV/electoral reform and Scotland during said stint.

    Gerald Butler looked like Mick McManus!!!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    Public Service Announcement

    My stint as Guest Editor of PB for a period of more than two weeks begins in the next day or so.

    Critical comments about the film 300 increases the likelihood of there being daily threads on AV/electoral reform and Scotland during said stint.

    300 should be retitled 'Dyson' because it sucks big time from start to finish.
    Mr Eagles, Sir, he doesn't mean it. Honest.
    You've got lucky.

    I'm off to bed, and so can't write a new morning thread about

    "Only AV can keep Scotland in the Union"
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Faroe Islands population 49,000 and change. Attendance at match 5,000. In terms of proportion of population, that is the equivalent of 5.3 million turning up at Wembly for an England home game! (But then the team represents about 0.03% of the population or 0.06% of the male population)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited June 2015
    If you like all-in wrestling a la World of Sport - there's a good documentary on BBC4 about it.

    I loved Kendo Nagasaki myself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thornley

    This interview is simply brilliant
    independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/wrestling-i-hurt-im-dizzy-i-want-to-throw-up--in-the-ring-with-kendo-nagasaki-507344.html
    I'm choking. Kendo Nagasaki, the most frightening wrestler this country ever produced, has got me in a three-quarter nelson: my head is in the crook of his elbow; his forearm is tight against my throat and he's lifting it. I can't breathe. I'm seeing stars, hearing popping sounds in my neck and trying not to pass out. So I bang my palm against his leg, which feels like steel cable under his red leggings, but he won't stop.

    Public Service Announcement

    My stint as Guest Editor of PB for a period of more than two weeks begins in the next day or so.

    Critical comments about the film 300 increases the likelihood of there being daily threads on AV/electoral reform and Scotland during said stint.

    Gerald Butler looked like Mick McManus!!!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Dair said:

    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    I think, perhaps, that you should do more research.

    Germany (that well known technologically backward country) was still using steam locomotives in the 1970s!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive#Germany

    The reason was that they wanted to get their full use out of their locomotives. Britain, OTOH, scrapped a lot of locos prematurely (for several reasons).
    You are missing the point. Getting the most use out of existing investment is very different to what happened in the UK. The UK was still investing Government Money in development of steam locomotives in the 1950s and building them into the 1960s.

    Other countries were entirely electric by that date (or much earlier). And the UK was still ploughing taxpayers money into steam engines. Even in 2015 the UK does not have a completely electric railway.
    Came back from Coventry to London via Oxford and Reading yesterday - saw the electrification out from London to Bristol is well underway. Scheduled for 2017 operations.
    The Thatcher and Major governments electrified many hundreds of miles of railways - the east coast, London to Norwich, London to Cambridge and King's Lynn, and many others.

    The Blair and Brown governments electrified ... nine miles (1), excluding the new-build HS1.

    The Cameron governments are electrifying hundreds more miles.

    The railways do better under the Conservatives than Labour. ;-)

    (1): researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05907/SN05907.pdf
    Which nine miles was that? :)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    edited June 2015

    Dair said:

    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    I think, perhaps, that you should do more research.

    Germany (that well known technologically backward country) was still using steam locomotives in the 1970s!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive#Germany

    The reason was that they wanted to get their full use out of their locomotives. Britain, OTOH, scrapped a lot of locos prematurely (for several reasons).
    You are missing the point. Getting the most use out of existing investment is very different to what happened in the UK. The UK was still investing Government Money in development of steam locomotives in the 1950s and building them into the 1960s.

    Other countries were entirely electric by that date (or much earlier). And the UK was still ploughing taxpayers money into steam engines. Even in 2015 the UK does not have a completely electric railway.
    Came back from Coventry to London via Oxford and Reading yesterday - saw the electrification out from London to Bristol is well underway. Scheduled for 2017 operations.
    The Thatcher and Major governments electrified many hundreds of miles of railways - the east coast, London to Norwich, London to Cambridge and King's Lynn, and many others.

    The Blair and Brown governments electrified ... nine miles (1), excluding the new-build HS1.

    The Cameron governments are electrifying hundreds more miles.

    The railways do better under the Conservatives than Labour. ;-)

    (1): researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05907/SN05907.pdf
    Which nine miles was that? :)
    I read it somewhere, but cannot remember. I think it was a couple of fill-in lines between other electrified routes.

    Edit:
    Nine route miles between Stoke-on-Trent (West Midlands) and Crewe (North West) had electrification commissioned between May 1997 and May 2010.
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2012-04-25a.102604.h
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Re Faroes doing a double over Greece, it reminded me of a joke which did the rounds a few years ago, though it does carry a health warning for Scottish readers.

    Presenter: We have Jim on the line who wants to discuss the Faroe Islands v Scotland game.
    Jim: Thanks...er yeah. Just want to say it's an absolute disgrace. I mean, we're playing probably the weakest side in world football and we can't do better than a draw.
    Presenter: It was a poor result.
    Jim: Poor result! Poor result! It's absolutely scandalous. The manager has lost the plot completely, he's got to go. I know we've never set the world alight over the years on the international stage but I can't remember things being this bad. It's the end for us. The absolute end. I can't see us ever recovering from a setback like this. We're a complete laughing stock.
    Presenter: Look Jim. I know it seems bad now but there is still a long way to go. I can't see you qualifying for Euro 2004 but hopefully things will improve.
    Jim: I never expected for a moment we would qualify. I don't mind that so much. We're not good enough. But listen, to not qualify is one thing, but to fail to beat a team like Scotland is a different matter. It's a bitter blow for everyone here on the Islands.

    * I have been a supporter of lost causes in my time, one of which plays in yellow and red in Scotland.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited June 2015
    So with Guest Editors I guess it is 'Ave bossa nova, similis bossa seneca*' as Dog Latin would have it.

    *Tm Terry Pratchett.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Dair said:

    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, bloody English, taking the world past steam power.

    This is the Britain/England which was still using Steam Locomotives in the 1960s and then diseasels till the 1990s (in the main and still today in the minority) while the world being "taken past steam power" had moved onto Electric Locomotives in the 1930s?

    I think, perhaps, you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.
    I think, perhaps, that you should do more research.

    Germany (that well known technologically backward country) was still using steam locomotives in the 1970s!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive#Germany

    The reason was that they wanted to get their full use out of their locomotives. Britain, OTOH, scrapped a lot of locos prematurely (for several reasons).
    You are missing the point. Getting the most use out of existing investment is very different to what happened in the UK. The UK was still investing Government Money in development of steam locomotives in the 1950s and building them into the 1960s.

    Other countries were entirely electric by that date (or much earlier). And the UK was still ploughing taxpayers money into steam engines. Even in 2015 the UK does not have a completely electric railway.
    Came back from Coventry to London via Oxford and Reading yesterday - saw the electrification out from London to Bristol is well underway. Scheduled for 2017 operations.
    The Thatcher and Major governments electrified many hundreds of miles of railways - the east coast, London to Norwich, London to Cambridge and King's Lynn, and many others.

    The Blair and Brown governments electrified ... nine miles (1), excluding the new-build HS1.

    The Cameron governments are electrifying hundreds more miles.

    The railways do better under the Conservatives than Labour. ;-)

    (1): researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05907/SN05907.pdf
    Which nine miles was that? :)
    I read it somewhere, but cannot remember. I think it was a couple of fill-in lines between other electrified routes.

    Edit:
    Nine route miles between Stoke-on-Trent (West Midlands) and Crewe (North West) had electrification commissioned between May 1997 and May 2010.
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2012-04-25a.102604.h

    Must have been the route via Alsager.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    dr_spyn said:

    Re Faroes doing a double over Greece, it reminded me of a joke which did the rounds a few years ago, though it does carry a health warning for Scottish readers.

    Presenter: We have Jim on the line who wants to discuss the Faroe Islands v Scotland game.
    Jim: Thanks...er yeah. Just want to say it's an absolute disgrace. I mean, we're playing probably the weakest side in world football and we can't do better than a draw.
    Presenter: It was a poor result.
    Jim: Poor result! Poor result! It's absolutely scandalous. The manager has lost the plot completely, he's got to go. I know we've never set the world alight over the years on the international stage but I can't remember things being this bad. It's the end for us. The absolute end. I can't see us ever recovering from a setback like this. We're a complete laughing stock.
    Presenter: Look Jim. I know it seems bad now but there is still a long way to go. I can't see you qualifying for Euro 2004 but hopefully things will improve.
    Jim: I never expected for a moment we would qualify. I don't mind that so much. We're not good enough. But listen, to not qualify is one thing, but to fail to beat a team like Scotland is a different matter. It's a bitter blow for everyone here on the Islands.

    * I have been a supporter of lost causes in my time, one of which plays in yellow and red in Scotland.

    Don't know if you caught the joke that got FIFA's spokesman fired, but I thought it was a corker.

    Q. The President of FIFA, the Secretary-General of FIFA and the FIFA spokesman are in a car. Who's driving?
    A. The police.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYQBd9ordbE
    kle4 said:

    So with Guest Editors I guess it is 'Ave bossa nova, similis bossa seneca*' as Dog Latin would have it.

    *Tm Terry Pratchett.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    dr_spyn said:

    Re Faroes doing a double over Greece, it reminded me of a joke which did the rounds a few years ago, though it does carry a health warning for Scottish readers.

    Presenter: We have Jim on the line who wants to discuss the Faroe Islands v Scotland game.
    Jim: Thanks...er yeah. Just want to say it's an absolute disgrace. I mean, we're playing probably the weakest side in world football and we can't do better than a draw.
    Presenter: It was a poor result.
    Jim: Poor result! Poor result! It's absolutely scandalous. The manager has lost the plot completely, he's got to go. I know we've never set the world alight over the years on the international stage but I can't remember things being this bad. It's the end for us. The absolute end. I can't see us ever recovering from a setback like this. We're a complete laughing stock.
    Presenter: Look Jim. I know it seems bad now but there is still a long way to go. I can't see you qualifying for Euro 2004 but hopefully things will improve.
    Jim: I never expected for a moment we would qualify. I don't mind that so much. We're not good enough. But listen, to not qualify is one thing, but to fail to beat a team like Scotland is a different matter. It's a bitter blow for everyone here on the Islands.

    * I have been a supporter of lost causes in my time, one of which plays in yellow and red in Scotland.

    One of my favourite 'terrible football team' jokes (also involving Scotland, though it hardly matters I suppose) was the one where England were playing Scotland and it was 0-0 at half time. A big brawl at the start of the second sees 10 England players sent off with only Rooney left, and they sit in the dressing room in shock for 45 minutes.

    Come the final whistle the team sees Rooney walk into the dressing room and sit down, looking utterly depressed. They ask him the result and, tears in his eyes, he says England lost 1-0.

    Stunned he could be upset after playing an entire half by himself and only losing 1-0, the team asks him why he's so upset.

    'You don't understand' he cries. 'It was an own goal'.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    England women have beaten Mexico 2-1 tonight. Colombia lost 2-0 to France.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569
    AndyJS said:

    It's a tragedy for the Greeks.

    Greece have been beaten by the Faroe Islands in tonight's Soccerball match.

    Bloody hell. Population = 49,709 according to Wikipedia

    The Faroe Islands might be in the news again on Thursday when they could be the deciding factor in the Danish general election which is on a knife-edge.
    Tuesday! But you must be right about the more substantial point that the centre-right have said they'd support Cameron. I must have missed it in the Danish coverage.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    AndyJS said:

    England women have beaten Mexico 2-1 tonight. Colombia lost 2-0 to France.

    I thought it was France lost 2-0 to Colombia ...
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Danny565 said:

    Off-topic: just found this. An item from the 2010 leadership contest with swing voters (SOUTHERN swing voters at that) saw Andy Burnham emerge as the top choice, ahead of both Milibands.

    Actually, on this thread it is one of the most ON-TOPIC posts!

    Very interesting. Newsnight had a sample of only 12, but I Andy's "win" was still impressive because of the supporting comments of the audience.

    It would be interesting to take a poll of a large sample Might-Vote-Labour voters after the televised hustings of the Labour leadership candidates to see what the reaction is to the 2015 candidates.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    I've remarked before that in 2010 I recall liking Burnham best of the candidates but could not really recall why. So far I'm minded to agree with the suggestion it was just the not-Miliband factor (with Balls and Abbott not even considerations) - although I defended Ed M all those years, he was never great, and having seen nothing exceptional about Burnham so far this time, I can only conclude he was inoffensive and winner by default in my analysis last time around.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Danny 565

    'Off-topic: just found this. An item from the 2010 leadership contest with swing voters (SOUTHERN swing voters at that) saw Andy Burnham emerge as the top choice, ahead of both Milibands.'

    Based on a 3 minute interview and before the Mid Staffs report was published.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    On-topic - I do feel that this text would've been better not pretending to be from Burnham at all. Surely nobody would ever believe it was (and the opt-out removes all doubt) and it would've been more straightforward to say something like "Andy Burnham would like to know what you think are the issues he should take on. Reply to this text to let him know".

    As is, it does just seem weird. And the lack of at least a comma after "Hi" is going to make me lose sleep...
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243
    On the subject of electrification, the Continent had an incentive because the allies bombed most of Europe's railways to bits
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    On the subject of electrification, the Continent had an incentive because the allies bombed most of Europe's railways to bits

    Oh... and the factories to rebuild it.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:


    Since the Industrial Revolution, the UK has been utterly opposed to innovation.

    I've read some strange stuff on PB threads, but that is the most bizarre!

    "utterly opposed to innovation" - do you really believe that?

    Go and sit down in a quiet room with a glass of water for an hour and calm down.
    I'll give you four very pertinent examples to consider how the UK has botched modern technology and crippled it's own economy.

    The telephone.
    The computer.
    Television.
    The Internet.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Well Snowden appears to have achieved his aim

    Sky News

    Britain has been forced to withdraw intelligence agents from operations because Russia and China have obtained access to secret information in files stolen by whistleblower Edward Snowden, according to senior government sources.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Dair said:

    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:


    Since the Industrial Revolution, the UK has been utterly opposed to innovation.

    I've read some strange stuff on PB threads, but that is the most bizarre!

    "utterly opposed to innovation" - do you really believe that?

    Go and sit down in a quiet room with a glass of water for an hour and calm down.
    I'll give you four very pertinent examples to consider how the UK has botched modern technology and crippled it's own economy.

    The telephone.
    The computer.
    Television.
    The Internet.
    If you think the UK has a crippled economy then you cannot get out much!



  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    Greetings from San Francisco - where they know a bit about turning innovation into industries.

    Dair is right - the UK is absolutely shocking at this. In addition to his list, let's throw in the jet engine and also, most recently, graphene. Our business culture - focused on cost control and quarterly returns - actively discourages long-term investment in the creation and roll-out of world class products and breeds a dysfunctional management class that judges itself on its ability to cut, rather than to create. It is little wonder our productivity is so poor and our exports so poor.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Greetings from San Francisco - where they know a bit about turning innovation into industries.

    Dair is right - the UK is absolutely shocking at this. In addition to his list, let's throw in the jet engine and also, most recently, graphene. Our business culture - focused on cost control and quarterly returns - actively discourages long-term investment in the creation and roll-out of world class products and breeds a dysfunctional management class that judges itself on its ability to cut, rather than to create. It is little wonder our productivity is so poor and our exports so poor.

    You certainly have a good point regarding the business culture in the UK being opposed to innovation.

    But the four examples I gave were specifically chosen as ones where Government decision making utterly destroyed any competitive edge the UK should have enjoyed - especially as in all four the UK invented, or were significantly involved, in the technological development.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    A fantastic collection of the failure of the Westminster commentariat over Creepy Jim has been compiled by PB's favourite Bathist.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/sometimes-its-just-a-spade/#more-71964
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    Greetings from San Francisco - where they know a bit about turning innovation into industries.

    Dair is right - the UK is absolutely shocking at this. In addition to his list, let's throw in the jet engine and also, most recently, graphene. Our business culture - focused on cost control and quarterly returns - actively discourages long-term investment in the creation and roll-out of world class products and breeds a dysfunctional management class that judges itself on its ability to cut, rather than to create. It is little wonder our productivity is so poor and our exports so poor.

    SO is right in much of his criticisms of the UK economy but the US capitalists are even worse on short-termism in mature markets. In the US truly innovative products get good funding from a much more highly developed financial sector so that the founders can make big money when they make an IPO.
    In the UK management is not very ambitious personally or for their businesses. Labour unions are controlled by idealogues who believe the State is the answer to our problems.

  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106

    Greetings from San Francisco - where they know a bit about turning innovation into industries.

    Dair is right - the UK is absolutely shocking at this. In addition to his list, let's throw in the jet engine and also, most recently, graphene. Our business culture - focused on cost control and quarterly returns - actively discourages long-term investment in the creation and roll-out of world class products and breeds a dysfunctional management class that judges itself on its ability to cut, rather than to create. It is little wonder our productivity is so poor and our exports so poor.

    "... turning innovation into industries." I entirely agree with you in this. We don't EXPLOIT the innovations as well as we should, but that is an entirely different thing to Dair's ridiculous assertion that we are "utterly opposed to innovation". We are great innovators.

    Take a look at this list of British innovations and then try to claim that we are "utterly opposed to innovation" with a straight face:
    http://www.topbritishinnovations.org/~/link.aspx?_id=6A3DE5CB2B4F41FDB7FB43601398817C&_z=z

    In addition, we have more Nobel prize winners than any other country except the USA.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country

    All Dair is doing (his usual trick) is to try to subtly shift the debate when his original point has been refuted.

    He hates being part of the UK so much that he frantically tries to find any way he can of denigrating it to help justify his own political desire for Scottish Independence.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Greetings from San Francisco - where they know a bit about turning innovation into industries.

    Dair is right - the UK is absolutely shocking at this. In addition to his list, let's throw in the jet engine and also, most recently, graphene. Our business culture - focused on cost control and quarterly returns - actively discourages long-term investment in the creation and roll-out of world class products and breeds a dysfunctional management class that judges itself on its ability to cut, rather than to create. It is little wonder our productivity is so poor and our exports so poor.

    Have a nice holiday.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Disraeli said:

    <
    "... turning innovation into industries." I entirely agree with you in this. We don't EXPLOIT the innovations as well as we should, but that is an entirely different thing to Dair's ridiculous assertion that we are "utterly opposed to innovation". We are great innovators.

    They are not mutually exclusive statements.

    Yes, Scotland and other parts of the UK are great innovators.

    But the government of the UK has always crippled innovation. The four examples I gave are the best evidence of just how the UK government has destroyed the commercial and economic potential of innovation due to the innate and conservative fear of empowering the population.

    The UK is weaker, poorer and worse served by the way the UK government has treated these core industries of modernity. And nothing suggests that the next great thing will be treated any differently.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Moses_ said:

    Well Snowden appears to have achieved his aim

    Sky News

    Britain has been forced to withdraw intelligence agents from operations because Russia and China have obtained access to secret information in files stolen by whistleblower Edward Snowden, according to senior government sources.

    This is all bullshit:
    “Why do you think Snowden ended up in Russia?” said a senior Home Office source. “Putin didn’t give him asylum for nothing. His documents were encrypted but they weren’t completely secure and we have now seen our agents and assets being targeted.”
    He ended up in Russia because that's where he was changing planes when they revoked his passport, and when they thought he was on a diplomatic plane going somewhere else they made it land and tried to arrest him. If they didn't want him to be in Russia, they shouldn't have forced him to stay in Russia.

    Either way, he's been saying he didn't take the documents with them to Russia, in which case it doesn't matter how well encrypted they were.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Dair said:

    Disraeli said:

    <
    "... turning innovation into industries." I entirely agree with you in this. We don't EXPLOIT the innovations as well as we should, but that is an entirely different thing to Dair's ridiculous assertion that we are "utterly opposed to innovation". We are great innovators.

    They are not mutually exclusive statements.

    Yes, Scotland and other parts of the UK are great innovators.

    But the government of the UK has always crippled innovation. The four examples I gave are the best evidence of just how the UK government has destroyed the commercial and economic potential of innovation due to the innate and conservative fear of empowering the population.

    The UK is weaker, poorer and worse served by the way the UK government has treated these core industries of modernity. And nothing suggests that the next great thing will be treated any differently.
    As far as I am concerned I've made my point defending great British innovators - all the women & men who've come up with the new ideas, products and technologies.

    We all (you, me and Southam Observer) seem to agree that once we get the innovations we don't exploit them properly.

    Southam blames the UK business culture, whereas you say "But the government of the UK has always crippled innovation". I don't have a dog in that particular fight, so I let you and SO argue the point. I need to go to bed.

    Sweet dreams everyone.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @SouthamObserver

    'Our business culture - focused on cost control and quarterly returns'

    And US corporations are not focused on cost controls & quarterly returns, clearly you have never worked for a US corporation
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Moses_ said:

    Well Snowden appears to have achieved his aim

    Sky News

    Britain has been forced to withdraw intelligence agents from operations because Russia and China have obtained access to secret information in files stolen by whistleblower Edward Snowden, according to senior government sources.

    Yeah, cause if we had been operationally compromised, we would definitely announce that to our enemies via international media
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790

    Mr. M, hmm.

    ....

    I don't own this, but I considered it a while ago. RHC Davis' A History of Medieval Europe: From Constantine to Saint Louis seems well-regarded.

    ...

    I found that book a few years ago at a jumble sale and bought it because I realised it covered a period of history I didn't know much about. It is good and informative, but a bit limited because it covers mostly Germany, France and Italy, and has not much about Britain, Russia, Scandinavia etc. After reading it, it inspired me to go out and buy a book about Byzantium because that was another area of ignorance which needed to be filled. (I then realised that the Eastern Roman Empire was richer, more cultured and more advanced in various ways than the Western).

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Dair said:

    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:


    Since the Industrial Revolution, the UK has been utterly opposed to innovation.

    I've read some strange stuff on PB threads, but that is the most bizarre!

    "utterly opposed to innovation" - do you really believe that?

    Go and sit down in a quiet room with a glass of water for an hour and calm down.
    I'll give you four very pertinent examples to consider how the UK has botched modern technology and crippled it's own economy.

    The telephone.
    The computer.
    Television.
    The Internet.
    You've rather destroyed your own argument. Innovation took place in the UK in all of those instances. It was the exploitation of the innovation that was lacking. That is not too surprising, as exploitation of technologies tends to take place very close to the largest markets and earliest adopters for that technology, i.e. for those cases the US.

    Even the botching of the exploitation has not crippled the economy. Compare and contrast with Greece, Argentina et al for 'crippling of the economy'. Or Scotland c1699.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    Greetings from San Francisco - where they know a bit about turning innovation into industries.

    Dair is right - the UK is absolutely shocking at this. In addition to his list, let's throw in the jet engine and also, most recently, graphene. Our business culture - focused on cost control and quarterly returns - actively discourages long-term investment in the creation and roll-out of world class products and breeds a dysfunctional management class that judges itself on its ability to cut, rather than to create. It is little wonder our productivity is so poor and our exports so poor.

    It's not just our business culture. The patent system you know so well is very much exploited by the big players, often multinationals, making it very hard for small companies and start-ups to continue.

    This is especially true in my industry. There's f'all management can do about it, whatever the 'business culture'.
Sign In or Register to comment.