Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON takes 12% lead in ComRe/Mail poll which uses new method

124

Comments

  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243
    Plato said:

    Sky's live declaration scoreboard was excellent - very simple and contemporaneous. Why it's not been done before is beyond me.

    I re-watched the 4.30-7.30am segment (the bit when i actually went to bed for a bit) the other week, and it was notable that it was after 6am before the exit poll forecast actually got updated. What on earth took so long I don't know, when the Tories were edging into majority territory from around 1am if not earlier.

    It also meant that bizarrely they were still predicting 58 seats for the SNP well after the point this had ceased to be possible (once two, and then three, non-SNP MPs had been returned).

    I was mostly watching Sky, they took a long time to update to majority territory too. I think they were waiting for the exit pollsters to produce an official new forecast rather than updating on the fly.

    But this slackness should be encouraged as it was phenomenally profitable on Betfair.
    I have fond memories of Grandstand's chalked up horse racing results, as a small child. As I am sure others on here must.
    It took me years to work out what '20 to 1 bar' meant. Never mind 2 to 1 on, I mean what was that? Don't get me started on 100 to 30...
    A small window into a hidden and exotic world.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    With parents like these, it's no wonder the child is in meltdown.

    I'v lost count of the number of times I have read 'its crunch time for Greece as....'
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    The hysteria and hypocrisy in the various responses to Osborne's modest set of savings and asset sales is hilarious:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/jun/04/cameron-writing-to-ipsa-demanding-rethink-over-mps-10-pay-rise-politics-live

    I particularly enjoyed the Alice-in-Wonderland comment by Sadiq Khan (15:19)

    Labour would earn much more credibility with swing voters if they debated what to cut, rather than whether to cut.

    For instance, one Tory goose they could shoot is to continue to increase the aid budget in real terms but to delink it from GDP. That'd give them more money to spend on other things and also rub salt into a Tory sore.

    They could also argue for abolition of some departments like the DCMS to fund health, education and justice.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388
    edited June 2015



    They could also argue for abolition of some departments like the DCMS to fund health, education and justice.

    Don't think there's much chance of that... Would upset all their luvvie backers, LOL! :smiley:

    Then again, it may be a chance of get rid of permanent jinx Eddie Izzard, so might be a good idea after all. ;)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    The hysteria and hypocrisy in the various responses to Osborne's modest set of savings and asset sales is hilarious:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/jun/04/cameron-writing-to-ipsa-demanding-rethink-over-mps-10-pay-rise-politics-live

    I particularly enjoyed the Alice-in-Wonderland comment by Sadiq Khan (15:19)

    Wait didn't this Labour approach just get trounced at the election.

    What's the definition of insanity again ?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Why bother hosing squillions of licence payers hard earned on resurrecting a tired old format? Let them take the show elsewhere if there's a market for it.
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    The hysteria and hypocrisy in the various responses to Osborne's modest set of savings and asset sales is hilarious:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/jun/04/cameron-writing-to-ipsa-demanding-rethink-over-mps-10-pay-rise-politics-live

    I particularly enjoyed the Alice-in-Wonderland comment by Sadiq Khan (15:19)

    Dear Mr N,
    Yes I agree.
    I'd like to think the wage rises could be spread over the term of the parliament.
    I remain as ever your most humble and obedient servant
    Flightpath (Mr)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @STVNews: Salmond in sexism storm after telling MP to 'behave yourself, woman'
    http://t.co/Eut49kpGpK http://t.co/5apK5LPUMp
  • The hysteria and hypocrisy in the various responses to Osborne's modest set of savings and asset sales is hilarious:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/jun/04/cameron-writing-to-ipsa-demanding-rethink-over-mps-10-pay-rise-politics-live

    I particularly enjoyed the Alice-in-Wonderland comment by Sadiq Khan (15:19)

    Hmm. Looked through the Guardian's coverage and found this:

    "Obvious candidates in the firing line among Defra’s 28 arms-length bodies include its waste programme, Wrap. The agency, which works to reduce food waste and plastic bag use, has already been gutted, with its budget reduced to £17.9m in 2014, down from £37.7m in 2011."

    Why are we spending £18 million on an agency to reduce plastic bag usage? The Guardian coverage has had an opposite effect to how it might have intended as it has convinced me that nothing important is being cut...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    PT Ukip's vote rose by 10%, the Tories had a good result in seat terms under FPTP, in vote terms their vote rose by 0.8%, UKIP are the first party other than the Tories, Labour or Liberals to enter the top 3 since 1918

    You're constantly taking UKIP out of all context. Context is that UKIP are a protest party. UKIP's share of the protest vote went up, but the bigger picture is the protest votes went down.

    So fewer voters decided to protest, but of those that did more chose UKIP. That means UKIP's results may be significant relevant to other protest parties, but not a serious majority party of government.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2015
    Warm words from IDS for Ed Miliband in the Chamber, stating that as his experience showed he could still have a long parliamentary career
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    @STVNews: Salmond in sexism storm after telling MP to 'behave yourself, woman'
    http://t.co/Eut49kpGpK http://t.co/5apK5LPUMp

    Cue the Nats channelling Nigel Tufnel...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    PT UKIP's rise and the rise of the SNP meant there was little real difference in the protest party vote, UKIP's aim of course is exit from the EU as the SNP's is exit from the UK, neither wish to form a majority government at Westminster
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    PT UKIP's rise and the rise of the SNP meant there was little real difference in the protest party vote, UKIP's aim of course is exit from the EU as the SNP's is exit from the UK, neither wish to form a majority government at Westminster

    UKIP is nothing like the SNP. The SNP are a serious party of government, a major party. They're just isolated to Scotland.

    UKIP are an Other, a protest party. One seat just the same as the Greens.

    Despite the rise of these parties, the protest party vote fell. This shows UKIP's so-called rise for the mirage it is. Especially for the English figures:

    England Conservatives: 41.0% (+1.4%)
    England Labour: 31.6% (+3.6%)
    England Others: 27.4% (-5.0%)

    UKIP are part of that 5.0% decrease. 2015 marked a failure of the protest parties, including UKIP.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Tories in not understanding how markets work shocker

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32961240
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    watford30 said:

    Why bother hosing squillions of licence payers hard earned on resurrecting a tired old format? Let them take the show elsewhere if there's a market for it.
    Because this tired old format has a worldwide audience of hundreds of millions and earns the BBC £10ms every year.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2015
    Alistair Bush Snr is generally considered to be mid tier in presidential rankings, the economy soured during his time in office which was why he lost reelection, but he raised taxes on the rich to cut the deficit and won the Gulf War. Obama would hope to join the mid tier, the economy has not done too badly and he got Bin Laden despite other foreign policy disasters. Ford, Truman and LBJ are also mid tier. Reagan, FDR, IKE, JFK and Clinton are considered top tier, Carter, Nixon and Bush W bottom tier
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Alistair said:

    Tories in not understanding how markets work shocker

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32961240

    So if refuse to buy my salmon in Tesco as it's more expensive than Aldi that means I "don't understand how markets work" ?


  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Alistair said:

    Tories in not understanding how markets work shocker

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32961240

    Not at all, they understand that the government as a whole has monopsony power and are trying to enforce it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    Tories in not understanding how markets work shocker

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32961240

    The Tories do understand how markets work. The NHS is not a proper market which is why it has fat in it the government is able to address like this, in order to better spend public money. If it was a market things might be different but it isn't.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    And by coincidence NICE made to suspend work on an independent report into safe staffing

    http://www.nice.org.uk/news/article/nhs-england-asks-nice-to-suspend-safe-staffing-programme
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    PT The SNP and UKIP are set up with one aim, exit from the UK and EU respectively, the SNP may win Scottish elections, UKIP European elections, but that is not their aim they are means to an end, neither have any interest in winning UK Westminster elections, just use them as tools to press for independence. Your figures also exclude Scotland where there was a huge protest vote so are misleading
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair Bush Snr is generally considered to be mid tier in presidential rankings, the economy soured during his time in office which was why he lost reelection, but he raised taxes on the rich to cut the deficit and won the Gulf War. Obama would hope to join the mid tier, the economy has not done too badly and he got Bin Laden despite other foreign policy disasters. Ford, Truman and LBJ are also mid tier. Reagan, FDR, IKE, JFK and Clinton are considered top tier, Carter, Nixon and Bush W bottom tier

    Regan's Gallup Approval rating in Jun 1987 is exactly the same as Obama's now.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    PT The SNP and UKIP are set up with one aim, exit from the UK and EU respectively, the SNP may win Scottish elections, UKIP European elections, but that is not their aim they are means to an end, neither have any interest in winning UK Westminster elections, just use them as tools to press for independence. Your figures also exclude Scotland where there was a huge protest vote so are misleading

    Whilst there is a certain amount of logic in calling the SNP vote a protest vote the SNP have also been the party of government in Scotland for the last 8 years which reduces the idea of 'protest' voting for them.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Alistair said:

    And by coincidence NICE made to suspend work on an independent report into safe staffing

    http://www.nice.org.uk/news/article/nhs-england-asks-nice-to-suspend-safe-staffing-programme

    Al old chap - the SNP are running the health service in Scotland.

    Next you will be blaming Cam for the zero tolerance drink driving laws closing pubs and restaurants all over Scotland.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Alistair said:

    Tories in not understanding how markets work shocker

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32961240

    Not at all, they understand that the government as a whole has monopsony power and are trying to enforce it.
    In the East Midlands we have only filled 30% of our GP training posts in a region of 5 million people. It is not just about money, other aspects of terms and conditions come into it too.

    Without locums we could not keep services going, wards staffed, casualty open and operating lists functioning; even before we get into the issue of seven day working.

    The government is in effect a monopoly employer, but there will be major gaps if it abuses its powers. There are skill shortages in many areas.

    We employ a number of agency staff in my department, but always negotiate for the best deal, and only use them if we are going to turn a surplus (an agency surgeoon earning £2000 per day but earning tariff of £14 000 is a bargain!) Or if we are going to have to close the unit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Alistair Reagan left office with a nearly 70% approval rating, Obama will need a big jump to match that
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/116677/presidential-approval-ratings-gallup-historical-statistics-trends.aspx
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Good evening, everyone.

    Some way to the next elections, so it'll be interesting to see which pollster can do best in Holyrood and the London mayoral votes.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    edited June 2015
    TGOHF said:


    Next you will be blaming Cam for the zero tolerance drink driving laws closing pubs and restaurants all over Scotland.

    It's a sair fecht in the hospitality trade alright.

    The National ‏@ScotNational 1 hr1 hour ago
    Diners cancel George Square bookings ahead of Orangefest http://ebx.sh/1KOliJQ
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Alistair UKIP have been the largest UK delegation to the Euopean Parliament, but the SNP's aim is not to lead Holyrood it is independence, UKIP's aim is not to lead UK MEPs in the European Parliament it is to leave the EU
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    edited June 2015
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair Reagan left office with a nearly 70% approval rating, Obama will need a big jump to match that
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/116677/presidential-approval-ratings-gallup-historical-statistics-trends.aspx

    Alistair Reagan?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:


    Next you will be blaming Cam for the zero tolerance drink driving laws closing pubs and restaurants all over Scotland.

    It's a sair fecht in the hospitality trade alright.

    The National ‏@ScotNational 1 hr1 hour ago
    Diners cancel George Square bookings ahead of Orangefest http://ebx.sh/1KOliJQ
    UD - you are the 3rd Nat on here to think I'd even know what Orangefest even is.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "It’s been revealed how former Fifa official Chuck Blazer used to rent a £4,000-a-month apartment – for his cats.

    The 70-year-old American admitted his part in the huge Fifa corruption scandal this week, confirming he accepted bribes to vote for South Africa to host the 2010 World Cup.

    He splashed out £4,000-a-month on the luxury pad in New York’s prestigious Trump Tower, but rarely stayed over, with his cats having sole use."


    http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/04/ex-fifa-official-chuck-blazer-hired-4000-a-month-flat-for-his-cats-5229573/#ixzz3c71JnX6y
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited June 2015
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/new-drink-drive-law-threatening-rural-hospital-trade-warns-study.127796432

    "RURAL bars and hotels fear they are facing the worst summer tourist season for decades after new research showed some have suffered a significant drop in trade since stricter drink drive laws came into force."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3037974/How-Scotland-s-tough-new-drink-drive-limit-affecting-economy-Bar-sales-60-two-months-new-laws-stop-people-indulging.html

    "Bar sales down 60% in two months"

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/drink-drive-law-change-killing-golf-club-bars-1-3644189

    Quick - let's blame the Protestants..
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Plato said:

    OT For summer travellers... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3110706/The-15-airports-furthest-cities-named-one-131-MILES-away-think-is.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

    Ryanair features quite a lot ... "1. Paris Vatry Airport - 131 miles from Paris

    Despite having the French capital in its name, this airport is actually 131 miles from the heart of the city.

    It takes an estimated two hours nine minutes to drive there, despite Ryanair once marketing it as an ideal gateway to the French capital and Disneyland Paris."

    Oslo-Torp can fuck right off.
    120km according to Google maps

    Frankfurt Hahn is even worse - 126km...
    London Prestwick :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Sunl A distant relative
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    AndyJS said:

    "Alex Salmond tells female MP 'behave yourself, woman!'

    Scottish Nationalist MP accused of sexism after outburst in Commons at Anna Soubry, a Treasury minister"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11650695/Alex-Salmond-tells-female-MP-behave-yourself-woman.html

    At the risk of incurring the wrath of the nats, Alex Salmond has always come across to me as a smug pompous pr*ck. And I do not swear lightly.

    I turned when he said, 'The Scottish lion has rroared..' at his count last month, followed by a smirk. Just almost everything about his rhetoric grates.

    Either Angus Robertson or Nicola Sturgeon would (and have) made far better leaders of the SNP than he. In fact, one does wonder how much better YES might have done had either of them been in charge during the indyref last year.
    Grating on the nerves of English reactionaries is not necessarily seen as a negative north of the border.
    What a depressingly predictable response, complete with 180 degree slur.

    You lot really will not brook any criticism of the SNP, or anyone in it, at all, will you?
    Whpify that.
    A fa.
    'ribbing'

    What is permissable, nay hilarious, for PB Tories to call others:

    A smug, pompous prick
    Nazis
    Gestapo
    Fascists
    Stalinists
    racists
    scum
    a*rseholes
    w*nkers
    traitors


    What is not permissable for others to call PB Tories as it will result in tears before bedtime:

    all of the above plus

    PB Tories
    The ****
    Loyalists
    Reactionaries
    Britnats


    Very silly stuff. As I've never voted Tory I cannot be a PB Tory, and I can therefore say very easily that in your list of things it is permissable for PB Tories to say, many not PB Tories also say and with great frequency, therefore your whole post falls to pieces, as it is predicated on the basis that only that group says such things, and that is patently, wholly false.

    Given how many times I've praised the SNP, even as their success depresses me, I feel safer saying I can judge that fairly, if self righteously.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    TGOHF said:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/new-drink-drive-law-threatening-rural-hospital-trade-warns-study.127796432

    "RURAL bars and hotels fear they are facing the worst summer tourist season for decades after new research showed some have suffered a significant drop in trade since stricter drink drive laws came into force."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3037974/How-Scotland-s-tough-new-drink-drive-limit-affecting-economy-Bar-sales-60-two-months-new-laws-stop-people-indulging.html

    "Bar sales down 60% in two months"

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/drink-drive-law-change-killing-golf-club-bars-1-3644189

    Quick - let's blame the Protestants..

    So tax take will be down too......no wonder full independence in 18 months full fiscal autonomy in several years is the latest cry.....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    PT The SNP and UKIP are set up with one aim, exit from the UK and EU respectively, the SNP may win Scottish elections, UKIP European elections, but that is not their aim they are means to an end, neither have any interest in winning UK Westminster elections, just use them as tools to press for independence. Your figures also exclude Scotland where there was a huge protest vote so are misleading

    No it isn't misleading as the SNP and UKIP are totally different entities.

    The SNP are a serious party of government and won 56/59 (95%) of the seats they contested.
    UKIP are a minor protest party that won 1/533 (0%) of the seats in England.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    Question: will the sale of the remainder of Royal Mail be a 'material change' triggering a new referendum?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Alex Salmond tells female MP 'behave yourself, woman!'

    Scottish Nationalist MP accused of sexism after outburst in Commons at Anna Soubry, a Treasury minister"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11650695/Alex-Salmond-tells-female-MP-behave-yourself-woman.html

    At the risk of incurring the wrath of the nats, Alex Salmond has always come across to me as a smug pompous pr*ck. And I do not swear lightly.

    I turned when he said, 'The Scottish lion has rroared..' at his count last month, followed by a smirk. Just almost everything about his rhetoric grates.

    Either Angus Robertson or Nicola Sturgeon would (and have) made far better leaders of the SNP than he. In fact, one does wonder how much better YES might have done had either of them been in charge during the indyref last year.
    Grating on the nerves of English reactionaries is not necessarily seen as a negative north of the border.
    What a depressingly predictable response, complete with 180 degree slur.

    You lot really will not brook any criticism of the SNP, or anyone in it, at all, will you?
    Whpify that.
    A fa.
    'ribbing'

    What is permissable, nay hilarious, for PB Tories to call others:

    A smug, pompous prick
    Nazis
    Gestapo
    Fascists
    Stalinists
    racists
    scum
    a*rseholes
    w*nkers
    traitors


    What is not permissable for others to call PB Tories as it will result in tears before bedtime:

    all of the above plus

    PB Tories
    The ****
    Loyalists
    Reactionaries
    Britnats


    Very silly stuff.
    You mean you missed the informative and insightful discussion led by the Nat posters of the differing strengths and weaknesses of Salmond, Sturgeon and Robertson as leaders?

    Of how one was better at reaching out to female and Labour voters, while the other had had a good first outing at PMQs?

    Funny that.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Alex Salmond tells female MP 'behave yourself, woman!'

    Scottish Nationalist MP accused of sexism after outburst in Commons at Anna Soubry, a Treasury minister"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11650695/Alex-Salmond-tells-female-MP-behave-yourself-woman.html

    At the risk of incurring the wrath of the nats, Alex Salmond has always come across to me as a smug pompous pr*ck. And I do not swear lightly.

    I turned when he said, 'The Scottish lion has rroared..' at his count last month, followed by a smirk. Just almost everything about his rhetoric grates.

    Either Angus Robertson or Nicola Sturgeon would (and have) made far better leaders of the SNP than he. In fact, one does wonder how much better YES might have done had either of them been in charge during the indyref last year.
    Grating on the nerves of English reactionaries is not necessarily seen as a negative north of the border.
    What a depressingly predictable response, complete with 180 degree slur.

    You lot really will not brook any criticism of the SNP, or anyone in it, at all, will you?
    Whpify that.
    A fa.
    'ribbing'

    What is permissable, nay hilarious, for PB Tories to call others:

    A smug, pompous prick
    Nazis
    Gestapo
    Fascists
    Stalinists
    racists
    scum
    a*rseholes
    w*nkers
    traitors


    What is not permissable for others to call PB Tories as it will result in tears before bedtime:

    all of the above plus

    PB Tories
    The ****
    Loyalists
    Reactionaries
    Britnats


    Very silly stuff. As I've never voted Tory I cannot be a PB Tory, and I can therefore say very easily that in your list of things it is permissable for PB Tories to say, many not PB Tories also say and with great frequency, therefore your whole post falls to pieces, as it is predicated on the basis that only that group says such things, and that is patently, wholly false.

    Given how many times I've praised the SNP, even as their success depresses me, I feel safer saying I can judge that fairly, if self righteously.
    And I'm not sure what TUD is on about, calling a PB Tory a PB Tory is a most accurate and flattering statement. Especially after May 7th :D:D
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited June 2015
    I took the suggestion of some on here to replay the GE2015 election night coverage. Around 3.30am we have two Labour supporting BBC pundits (Marr and Kellner) with Dimbleby and Laura Kuenssberg. The two Labour pundits down in the mouth. I guess this is the BBC's idea of balance?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:


    Next you will be blaming Cam for the zero tolerance drink driving laws closing pubs and restaurants all over Scotland.

    It's a sair fecht in the hospitality trade alright.

    The National ‏@ScotNational 1 hr1 hour ago
    Diners cancel George Square bookings ahead of Orangefest http://ebx.sh/1KOliJQ
    UD - you are the 3rd Nat on here to think I'd even know what Orangefest even is.
    As I recall last years Orange parade was quite a success, with its positive desire for the Union:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2755259/Scottish-independence-referendum-Orange-Order-descends-Edinburgh.html

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    TGOHF said:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/new-drink-drive-law-threatening-rural-hospital-trade-warns-study.127796432

    "RURAL bars and hotels fear they are facing the worst summer tourist season for decades after new research showed some have suffered a significant drop in trade since stricter drink drive laws came into force."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3037974/How-Scotland-s-tough-new-drink-drive-limit-affecting-economy-Bar-sales-60-two-months-new-laws-stop-people-indulging.html

    "Bar sales down 60% in two months"

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/drink-drive-law-change-killing-golf-club-bars-1-3644189

    Quick - let's blame the Protestants..

    Nice to see Loyalists stick up for Loyalists - good on you.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    RobD said:

    Question: will the sale of the remainder of Royal Mail be a 'material change' triggering a new referendum?

    Do you think it will get the "stamp" of approval? :lol:
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:


    Next you will be blaming Cam for the zero tolerance drink driving laws closing pubs and restaurants all over Scotland.

    It's a sair fecht in the hospitality trade alright.

    The National ‏@ScotNational 1 hr1 hour ago
    Diners cancel George Square bookings ahead of Orangefest http://ebx.sh/1KOliJQ
    UD - you are the 3rd Nat on here to think I'd even know what Orangefest even is.
    If my memory is not completely at fault, you do show an interest in the, let's say, orange and green side of life which is atypical for a denizen of Hemel Hempstead or Southport or wherever it is you live. So I'm genuinely surprised you haven't been keeping up with the Glaswegian news, given the political implications involved.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Dr. Prasannan, stop pushing the envelope.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    PT UKIP won 13% across the UK, the SNP about 5%. Had Labour promised another independence referendum as the Tories promised a referendum on the EU, the SNP seat total and voteshare at the general election would likely have been much lower
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dr. Prasannan, stop pushing the envelope.

    To be frank, he is just posting for first class reasons.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited June 2015

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Alex Salmond tells female MP 'behave yourself, woman!'

    Scottish Nationalist MP accused of sexism after outburst in Commons at Anna Soubry, a Treasury minister"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11650695/Alex-Salmond-tells-female-MP-behave-yourself-woman.html

    At the risk of incurring the wrath of the nats, Alex Salmond has always come across to me as a smug pompous pr*ck. And I do not swear lightly.

    I turned when he said, 'The Scottish lion has rroared..' at his count last month, followed by a smirk. Just almost everything about his rhetoric grates.

    Either Angus Robertson or Nicola Sturgeon would (and have) made far better leaders of the SNP than he. In fact, one does wonder how much better YES might have done had either of them been in charge during the indyref last year.
    Grating on the nerves of English reactionaries is not necessarily seen as a negative north of the border.
    What a depressingly predictable response, complete with 180 degree slur.

    You lot really will not brook any criticism of the SNP, or anyone in it, at all, will you?
    Whpify that.
    A fa.
    'ri

    Very silly stuff.
    You mean you missed the informative and insightful discussion led by the Nat posters of the differing strengths and weaknesses of Salmond, Sturgeon and Robertson as leaders?

    Of how one was better at reaching out to female and Labour voters, while the other had had a good first outing at PMQs?

    Funny that.
    I did miss it, though that was thankfully irrelevant to the worth of the summary of 'permissable' insults I responded to. Sometimes it's good to miss the start of things.

    HYUFD said:

    PT The SNP and UKIP are set up with one aim, exit from the UK and EU respectively, the SNP may win Scottish elections, UKIP European elections, but that is not their aim they are memisleading

    The SNP are a serious party of government and won 56/59 (95%) of the seats they contested.
    No matter how many times I see that, it never stops being amazing. Even if it was just riding a wave, they are pretty damn incredible to ride it so well, to the point it could have been even better - and that ignoring they helped cause the wave too.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    HYUFD said:

    PT UKIP won 13% across the UK, the SNP about 5%. Had Labour promised another independence referendum as the Tories promised a referendum on the EU, the SNP seat total and voteshare at the general election would likely have been much lower

    That's comparing apples with oranges. UKIP stood in most seats, SNP stood in 59
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Dr. Prasannan, stop pushing the envelope.

    To be frank, he is just posting for first class reasons.
    Has anybody seen my package? :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    DUP?
    SDLP?
    Sinn Fein?
    UUP?
    Alliance?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dr. Prasannan, stop pushing the envelope.

    To be frank, he is just posting for first class reasons.
    Has anybody seen my package? :lol:
    Is that junk? Or only for special delivery??!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    Seriously? That party happens to be in government in Scotland.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    The Irish FA just confirmed it received a'multi million dollar 'payment from fifa in 2010 after it failed to make the world Cup
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    DUP?
    SDLP?
    Sinn Fein?
    UUP?
    Alliance?
    And PC ...

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    On that logic the Monster Raving Loonies aren't a party of protest ...

  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    RobD said:

    Question: will the sale of the remainder of Royal Mail be a 'material change' triggering a new referendum?

    No. The SNP policy is for an independent Scotland to be part of the EU. As such, they would have to accept the reality of privatized postal services, which is an EU project to increase competition in a sector which had been a set of state monopolies.


  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    DUP?
    SDLP?
    Sinn Fein?
    UUP?
    Alliance?
    And PC ...

    MK :)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    Seriously? That party happens to be in government in Scotland.
    A pocket money government. My main objection to FPTP is that it rewards regional parties demanding lots of pork. I'd like to set up a Surrey, Sussex and Hampshire Party and demand more pork for people living in those counties.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932

    HYUFD said:

    PT UKIP's rise and the rise of the SNP meant there was little real difference in the protest party vote, UKIP's aim of course is exit from the EU as the SNP's is exit from the UK, neither wish to form a majority government at Westminster

    UKIP is nothing like the SNP. The SNP are a serious party of government, a major party. They're just isolated to Scotland.

    UKIP are an Other, a protest party. One seat just the same as the Greens.

    Despite the rise of these parties, the protest party vote fell. This shows UKIP's so-called rise for the mirage it is. Especially for the English figures:

    England Conservatives: 41.0% (+1.4%)
    England Labour: 31.6% (+3.6%)
    England Others: 27.4% (-5.0%)

    UKIP are part of that 5.0% decrease. 2015 marked a failure of the protest parties, including UKIP.
    The Greens actually won their seat, rather than receive a defector and then hold it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    Seriously? That party happens to be in government in Scotland.
    A pocket money government. My main objection to FPTP is that it rewards regional parties demanding lots of pork. I'd like to set up a Surrey, Sussex and Hampshire Party and demand more pork for people living in those counties.
    Pocket money? £30bn? Blimey, you must have had rich parents.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited June 2015
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair Bush Snr is generally considered to be mid tier in presidential rankings, the economy soured during his time in office which was why he lost reelection, but he raised taxes on the rich to cut the deficit and won the Gulf War. Obama would hope to join the mid tier, the economy has not done too badly and he got Bin Laden despite other foreign policy disasters. Ford, Truman and LBJ are also mid tier. Reagan, FDR, IKE, JFK and Clinton are considered top tier, Carter, Nixon and Bush W bottom tier

    Considered by whom?

    Nixon was an excellent president save one thing, Watergate. Ending Vietnam and opening up China to the West will be viewed historically as major turning points in global relations, and without it Reagan's achievements against the Soviet bloc would not have been possible, nor would the prosperity of the Clinton years, which was fueled by the deflationary effect of cheap Chinese goods and money, made possible by Nixon.

    On the opposite side of the fence, while he made advances on curbing entitlements, Clinton was mostly lucky to have presided when he did and I doubt history will be rank him particularly highly as a president. To my mind, both Truman (the Marshall Plan) and LBJ (think civil rights) were both far more substantial presidents than Clinton and belong with the greats. Clinton is, of course, a formidable politician, but that is an entirely different thing.

    It is too early for history to have a view on either Bush Jr or Obama - their legacies (Iraq/War on Terror, Obamacare) are still playing out.

    If you want some fun on how scholars and historians grade US presidents, here is a wikipedia page:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States

    NB Clinton is ranked second or third quartile, only 4 places above GHW Bush.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    Seriously? That party happens to be in government in Scotland.
    A pocket money government. My main objection to FPTP is that it rewards regional parties demanding lots of pork. I'd like to set up a Surrey, Sussex and Hampshire Party and demand more pork for people living in those counties.
    Pocket money? £30bn? Blimey, you must have had rich parents.
    Well it's pocket money in the sense they don't have to earn it (and I had to do very little to get my pocket money!). The first thing Cameron should have done is announce that he was giving FFA to Scotland whether they liked it or not.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    in other important news 7 new species of tiny frog have being found in south-east Brazil.

    there is so far no evidence of FIFA bribing them. :)

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    RobD It leads a regional government, UKIP has the largest number of UK MEPs at the European Parliament
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    HYUFD said:

    RobD It leads a regional government, UKIP has the largest number of UK MEPs at the European Parliament

    I sincerely hope it is the case that the Scottish government has more powers than the European one. In any case, the SNP are running things up in Scotland. What are UKIP actually doing in Europe apart from claiming expenses?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Carnyx Why? The Monster Raving Loonies did not stand in my seat and many others neither
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx Why? The Monster Raving Loonies did not stand in my seat and many others neither

    Oh, I stand corrected - I thought they were more widely distributed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    Seriously? That party happens to be in government in Scotland.
    A pocket money government. My main objection to FPTP is that it rewards regional parties demanding lots of pork. I'd like to set up a Surrey, Sussex and Hampshire Party and demand more pork for people living in those counties.
    Pocket money? £30bn? Blimey, you must have had rich parents.
    Well it's pocket money in the sense they don't have to earn it (and I had to do very little to get my pocket money!). The first thing Cameron should have done is announce that he was giving FFA to Scotland whether they liked it or not.
    Oh? Why am I having to do not only my own income tax return but also that of other family members?

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The Irish FA just confirmed it received a'multi million dollar 'payment from fifa in 2010 after it failed to make the world Cup

    If that's the going rate, what's the 'hand of god' worth?????
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    RobD Given the number of directives coming from Brussels and Strasbourg the EU Parliament arguably has more powers than Westminster let alone Holyrood. UKIP won the UK European Parliament elections, the SNP the Scottish Parliament elections
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2015
    Carnyx Thankyou
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Just having a look through the Orange Order site:

    http://www.orangeorderscotland.com/index.html

    I noticed at the bottom of each page the following statement:

    " The Protestant ethic is one of tolerance of other faiths and ideals. It is this tolerance and liberty that the Orange Order promotes and defends. "
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    edited June 2015
    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    Seriously? That party happens to be in government in Scotland.
    A pocket money government. My main objection to FPTP is that it rewards regional parties demanding lots of pork. I'd like to set up a Surrey, Sussex and Hampshire Party and demand more pork for people living in those counties.
    Already exists, why d'you think there is a Green Belt?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    TimT Historical arguments aside I was looking at final approval ratings. Clinton, Reagan, JFK and Ike were all close to 60%+, Bush Snr, LBJ, Ford were all around 50%, Bush W, Nixon, Carter were all around 30%
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    edited June 2015
    I'd be willing to bet quite a few of the legal eagles on here will be receiving e-mails regarding FIFA at the moment in a professional capacity. I think it won't just be FIFA that is going down in this probe.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    PT UKIP won 13% across the UK, the SNP about 5%. Had Labour promised another independence referendum as the Tories promised a referendum on the EU, the SNP seat total and voteshare at the general election would likely have been much lower

    You can not be serious.

    The SNP got 50%, four times more than UKIP's 12.5%
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    calum said:

    Just having a look through the Orange Order site:

    http://www.orangeorderscotland.com/index.html

    I noticed at the bottom of each page the following statement:

    " The Protestant ethic is one of tolerance of other faiths and ideals. It is this tolerance and liberty that the Orange Order promotes and defends. "

    If only every Nat site had a similar footer!
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    edited June 2015

    I took the suggestion of some on here to replay the GE2015 election night coverage. Around 3.30am we have two Labour supporting BBC pundits (Marr and Kellner) with Dimbleby and Laura Kuenssberg. The two Labour pundits down in the mouth. I guess this is the BBC's idea of balance?

    One reason PBTories are provocative is that they are so defensive and tend to exhibit victimhood despite their party's being in the political ascendant. For instance, they see Marr as a Labour supporter essentially for the crime of having family connections to the Labour Party. They get very upset because there are two media in Britain that don't support them. Really they should be exulting in their victory, that's what I'd do, but it's still all about feeling victimised by those who aren't part of the 37 per cent.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Vicky #No2EU ‏@2tweetaboutit 3m3 minutes ago
    #UKIP Deputy Leader @paulnuttallukip on #RoyalMail http://www.ukip.org/three_eu_postal_services_directives_lie_behind_the_destruction_of_the_royal_mail

    UKIP Deputy Leader Paul Nuttall MEP: “It is rarely mentioned in the media but three EU Postal Services Directives lie behind the destruction of the Royal Mail. UKIP opposed these which were implemented initially by Labour while in government.

    “Under EU state aid rules the UK Government is strictly forbidden from helping the Royal Mail with taxpayers’ money and this means that in future it could go bust and completely disappear.

    “This final part of the privatisation means we will be left with a completely destroyed Royal Mail, once a proud British institution that did so much more than just deliver letters. We can thank the EU for that.

    “Even if it does survive I fear that Royal Mail could well end up 100% in foreign ownership, just like much of our utility companies and railways. What a sad outcome for this historic business.”
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    HYUFD said:

    TimT Historical arguments aside I was looking at final approval ratings. Clinton, Reagan, JFK and Ike were all close to 60%+, Bush Snr, LBJ, Ford were all around 50%, Bush W, Nixon, Carter were all around 30%

    Fair enough. But that is no historical measure of greatness. Populists and panderers would dominate the greats, otherwise. Milosevic was popular in Serbia while stirring up hatred for the Albanians in Kosovo. Not sure that makes him a great ...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    HYUFD said:

    RobD Given the number of directives coming from Brussels and Strasbourg the EU Parliament arguably has more powers than Westminster let alone Holyrood. UKIP won the UK European Parliament elections, the SNP the Scottish Parliament elections

    And the SNPs influence in the Scottish Parliament is massive, UKIPs in the European is miniscule. So even if the powers of the parliament are more limited (which I would dispute in the context of people daily lives), the SNP are actually exercising powers. UKIP aren't.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    Pulpstar said:

    I'd be willing to bet quite a few of the legal eagles on here will be receiving e-mails regarding FIFA at the moment in a professional capacity. I think it won't just be FIFA that is going down in this probe.

    And think of all the other international investigations based in Switzerland with multi-million/multi-billlion pound budgets. How confident can anyone be that there has been no wrongdoing in those?

    Where there's money, there's greed.

    The AMl/anti-bribery officers of a lot of organisations are going to be burning the midight oil doing a lot of checks.......

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    Seriously? That party happens to be in government in Scotland.
    A pocket money government. My main objection to FPTP is that it rewards regional parties demanding lots of pork. I'd like to set up a Surrey, Sussex and Hampshire Party and demand more pork for people living in those counties.
    Pocket money? £30bn? Blimey, you must have had rich parents.
    Well it's pocket money in the sense they don't have to earn it (and I had to do very little to get my pocket money!). The first thing Cameron should have done is announce that he was giving FFA to Scotland whether they liked it or not.
    Oh? Why am I having to do not only my own income tax return but also that of other family members?

    Your imperial masters in Westminster command you to. :):D
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MikeK said:

    Vicky #No2EU ‏@2tweetaboutit 3m3 minutes ago
    #UKIP Deputy Leader @paulnuttallukip on #RoyalMail http://www.ukip.org/three_eu_postal_services_directives_lie_behind_the_destruction_of_the_royal_mail

    UKIP Deputy Leader Paul Nuttall MEP: “It is rarely mentioned in the media but three EU Postal Services Directives lie behind the destruction of the Royal Mail. UKIP opposed these which were implemented initially by Labour while in government.

    “Under EU state aid rules the UK Government is strictly forbidden from helping the Royal Mail with taxpayers’ money and this means that in future it could go bust and completely disappear.

    “This final part of the privatisation means we will be left with a completely destroyed Royal Mail, once a proud British institution that did so much more than just deliver letters. We can thank the EU for that.

    “Even if it does survive I fear that Royal Mail could well end up 100% in foreign ownership, just like much of our utility companies and railways. What a sad outcome for this historic business.”

    So UKIP are against privatisation and in favour of state aid?

    Yet we're supposed to consider them a right-wing party?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD So what, the fact it did not even stand in most Westminster seats confirms the SNP is a party of protest at Westminster elections

    Seriously? That party happens to be in government in Scotland.
    A pocket money government. My main objection to FPTP is that it rewards regional parties demanding lots of pork. I'd like to set up a Surrey, Sussex and Hampshire Party and demand more pork for people living in those counties.
    Pocket money? £30bn? Blimey, you must have had rich parents.
    Well it's pocket money in the sense they don't have to earn it (and I had to do very little to get my pocket money!). The first thing Cameron should have done is announce that he was giving FFA to Scotland whether they liked it or not.
    Oh? Why am I having to do not only my own income tax return but also that of other family members?

    Your imperial masters in Westminster command you to. :):D
    Too right!
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD Given the number of directives coming from Brussels and Strasbourg the EU Parliament arguably has more powers than Westminster let alone Holyrood. UKIP won the UK European Parliament elections, the SNP the Scottish Parliament elections

    And the SNPs influence in the Scottish Parliament is massive, UKIPs in the European is miniscule. So even if the powers of the parliament are more limited (which I would dispute in the context of people daily lives), the SNP are actually exercising powers. UKIP aren't.
    I've mentioned here before the leaflets the Scottish Pmt produces to advise people on whether to go to their MP or MSP. They make interesting reading because they put, very simply and clearly, the basic point that there is plenty to do on either count. The powers of the Scottish Pmt ARE limited in terms of peoples' daily lives to a significant degree, however, by exactly that same count. For instance pensions and benefits are reserved to Westminster, and that affects many people (not just the unemployed). But, yes, the SNP-UKIP comparison is asymmetric in many ways.

    Incidentally, the SNP also did markedly better than UKIP in Scotland in the European elections.



  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    TimT It tends to follow though, the presidents who saw the greatest economic growth and tended not to be too involved in unsuccesful foreign conflicts tended to have the highest approval rating
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    PT It was a Westminster election in which the SNP got 5%, less than half what UKIP got
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    MikeK Royal Mail is now making a profit and its share price is still higher than when it was privatised, its problem is too much state interference not too little because it still has the universal service obligation, as a private company its prices should be set by market forces and not government diktat, if the government wants the same price to deliver to the Outer Hebrides as Inner London then the government should provide a subsidy for it
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    PT It was a Westminster election in which the SNP got 5%, less than half what UKIP got

    No. It's a Westminster election in which the SNP got 56 times more than what UKIP got.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    RobD Given UKIP's influence in committees etc they do affect EU legislation
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    TimT I expect Carswell would give a different answer, of course the SNP has a few free marketeers too, both parties are united by nationalism, Scottish or British
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    HYUFD said:

    RobD Given UKIP's influence in committees etc they do affect EU legislation

    I must admit, I haven't heard of a single example of UKIP actually implementing policy in the EU.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD Given UKIP's influence in committees etc they do affect EU legislation

    I must admit, I haven't heard of a single example of UKIP actually implementing policy in the EU.
    They managed to get a referendum on our continued membership of the EU, and both the major parties running around talking about limiting immigration.

    I think they might take that as a win when it comes to influence.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    notme said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD Given UKIP's influence in committees etc they do affect EU legislation

    I must admit, I haven't heard of a single example of UKIP actually implementing policy in the EU.
    They managed to get a referendum on our continued membership of the EU, and both the major parties running around talking about limiting immigration.

    I think they might take that as a win when it comes to influence.
    That's fair enough, but we were discussing the relative powers and influence with the European and Scottish parliaments.
Sign In or Register to comment.