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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf’s summation as the big day gets closer

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited April 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf’s summation as the big day gets closer

The worst pun of the day from the William Hill press office
Punters Back Mili To Be Ed Boy

Read the full story here


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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,862
    1
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930

    1

    Did you see the Bournemouth penalty debacle? Any view?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,862
    Stilll all to play for.

    17 days to go and got all BJO family to register. 8 LAB votes secured
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,549
    About 6.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,549
    (Honing my prediction skills)
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817

    Stilll all to play for.

    8 LAB votes secured

    That's as many as they are going to get in the whole of Scotland it seems... ;)

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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''17 days to go and got all BJO family to register. 8 LAB votes secured.'

    My, you are a trusting fellow. In the secrecy of the ballot box, who knows what happens..??
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    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,882
    edited April 2015
    I think a large swathe of the country is going to be unhappy whatever the election result. A Lab/LD or Con/LD government without Clegg would probably be the best compromise.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Stilll all to play for.

    17 days to go and got all BJO family to register. 8 LAB votes secured

    I'm going to put an X in the Tory box with such fervor as to cancel out your eight labour votes.... :D
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433
    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Charles said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    How we deal with those fleeing all these catastrophes is hard to say. Leaving them to drown in the Mediterranean is, quite apart from any moral considerations, unlikely to succeed. If the choice is between living with IS or possible drowning there's no decision to take. Send them somewhere else? Maybe - but where? Why would Tunisia or Morocco want to have these people? Letting them into Europe? We can't take everyone who wants to leave the Middle East or Africa.

    The only way that works, I think is to scoop them out of the water and dump them back on th beach in Libya.

    We can't take moral responsibility for everyone who sets sail across the Med.
    That seems like the right strategy to me. Have a processing centre in Tunisia or somewhere else in North Africa. We set a cap for the EU to take the top 10,000 (or whatever the number is) most desperate cases each year, and ship anyone else back to the beaches. We can't take everyone fleeing a warzone, and it is perverse to only take the ones that dare and succeed the dangerous crossing - almost encouraging a perilous risk of human life.
    It's also important to remember that most of the people are *not* Libyans. I think the latest bunch were from Somalia and Eritrea. Saying we will take them because there is a war in Libya makes no sense.
    It seems odd to take Somali refugees when there's a thriving Somali state right next door in Somaliland. On what basis do Eritreans claim?

    The whole refugee thing seems to be abused at times. There are a lot of Russian people who claim asylum in the UK on the basis of homophobia back home. That seems like a much smaller threat than the generalised threat of living in a warzone, which doesn't qualify you. I don't particularly mind it, as Russian gay people tend to be very pro-Western, educated and don't have any children to pay for, but it shows the system is a bit illogical.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    The Scottish figures suggest the Tory strategy may be resonating in rUK
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    May I be the first to say that ICMs lead of 'just' 2 per cent should be seen in the context of Lord Ashcrofts 4pct lead for the Tories.....
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433
    I can't see how us agreeing to take these people in would have helped their predicament. If anything, surely announcing we will not let them in will discourage more boats in the future.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    How we deal with those fleeing all these catastrophes is hard to say. Leaving them to drown in the Mediterranean is, quite apart from any moral considerations, unlikely to succeed. If the choice is between living with IS or possible drowning there's no decision to take. Send them somewhere else? Maybe - but where? Why would Tunisia or Morocco want to have these people? Letting them into Europe? We can't take everyone who wants to leave the Middle East or Africa.

    The only way that works, I think is to scoop them out of the water and dump them back on th beach in Libya.

    We can't take moral responsibility for everyone who sets sail across the Med.
    That seems like the right strategy to me. Have a processing centre in Tunisia or somewhere else in North Africa. We set a cap for the EU to take the top 10,000 (or whatever the number is) most desperate cases each year, and ship anyone else back to the beaches. We can't take everyone fleeing a warzone, and it is perverse to only take the ones that dare and succeed the dangerous crossing - almost encouraging a perilous risk of human life.
    It's also important to remember that most of the people are *not* Libyans. I think the latest bunch were from Somalia and Eritrea. Saying we will take them because there is a war in Libya makes no sense.
    It seems odd to take Somali refugees when there's a thriving Somali state right next door in Somaliland.
    Ah yes, Somaliland. Does anyone know why that hasn't been recognised? I'd heard it was both stable and even democratic?
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    LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    Not surprisingly it now appears David Cameron did not say fox hunting was his favourite sport, as Marr stated.

    I think an apology it now in order from the BBC and also from their correspondents, Norman Smith and Carole Walker but I'm sure no-one will hold their breath.

    Appalling bias.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    How we deal with those fleeing all these catastrophes is hard to say. Leaving them to drown in the Mediterranean is, quite apart from any moral considerations, unlikely to succeed. If the choice is between living with IS or possible drowning there's no decision to take. Send them somewhere else? Maybe - but where? Why would Tunisia or Morocco want to have these people? Letting them into Europe? We can't take everyone who wants to leave the Middle East or Africa.

    The only way that works, I think is to scoop them out of the water and dump them back on th beach in Libya.

    We can't take moral responsibility for everyone who sets sail across the Med.
    That seems like the right strategy to me. Have a processing centre in Tunisia or somewhere else in North Africa. We set a cap for the EU to take the top 10,000 (or whatever the number is) most desperate cases each year, and ship anyone else back to the beaches. We can't take everyone fleeing a warzone, and it is perverse to only take the ones that dare and succeed the dangerous crossing - almost encouraging a perilous risk of human life.
    It's also important to remember that most of the people are *not* Libyans. I think the latest bunch were from Somalia and Eritrea. Saying we will take them because there is a war in Libya makes no sense.
    It seems odd to take Somali refugees when there's a thriving Somali state right next door in Somaliland. On what basis do Eritreans claim?

    The whole refugee thing seems to be abused at times. There are a lot of Russian people who claim asylum in the UK on the basis of homophobia back home. That seems like a much smaller threat than the generalised threat of living in a warzone, which doesn't qualify you. I don't particularly mind it, as Russian gay people tend to be very pro-Western, educated and don't have any children to pay for, but it shows the system is a bit illogical.
    I thought the refugee convention said that to claim asylum you had to do this in the first available country. So none of these people (or v few of them) are genuine asylum seekers under the convention. In practice, people are escaping to a place which is (a) safer and (b) likely to give them a better life i.e. Europe. So a mixture of both.

    The questions which European governments have to decide is (a) whether they want to take any of these people at all. If not, they need to be hard-hearted and either refuse to rescue people - which would seem to go against all normal human instincts - or simply send them back; or (b) if they do want to take some, how to choose; and (c) how to bear the costs and burdens.





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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    kle4 said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    How we deal with those fleeing all these catastrophes is hard to say. Leaving them to drown in the Mediterranean is, quite apart from any moral considerations, unlikely to succeed. If the choice is between living with IS or possible drowning there's no decision to take. Send them somewhere else? Maybe - but where? Why would Tunisia or Morocco want to have these people? Letting them into Europe? We can't take everyone who wants to leave the Middle East or Africa.

    The only way that works, I think is to scoop them out of the water and dump them back on th beach in Libya.

    We can't take moral responsibility for everyone who sets sail across the Med.
    That seems like the right strategy to me. Have a processing centre in Tunisia or somewhere else in North Africa. We set a cap for the EU to take the top 10,000 (or whatever the number is) most desperate cases each year, and ship anyone else back to the beaches. We can't take everyone fleeing a warzone, and it is perverse to only take the ones that dare and succeed the dangerous crossing - almost encouraging a perilous risk of human life.
    It's also important to remember that most of the people are *not* Libyans. I think the latest bunch were from Somalia and Eritrea. Saying we will take them because there is a war in Libya makes no sense.
    It seems odd to take Somali refugees when there's a thriving Somali state right next door in Somaliland.
    Ah yes, Somaliland. Does anyone know why that hasn't been recognised? I'd heard it was both stable and even democratic?
    They even have English as an official language! (possible hat-tip to the region being a British protectorate before 1960).
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    kle4 said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    How we deal with those fleeing all these catastrophes is hard to say. Leaving them to drown in the Mediterranean is, quite apart from any moral considerations, unlikely to succeed. If the choice is between living with IS or possible drowning there's no decision to take. Send them somewhere else? Maybe - but where? Why would Tunisia or Morocco want to have these people? Letting them into Europe? We can't take everyone who wants to leave the Middle East or Africa.

    The only way that works, I think is to scoop them out of the water and dump them back on th beach in Libya.

    We can't take moral responsibility for everyone who sets sail across the Med.
    That seems like the right strategy to me. Have a processing centre in Tunisia or somewhere else in North Africa. We set a cap for the EU to take the top 10,000 (or whatever the number is) most desperate cases each year, and ship anyone else back to the beaches. We can't take everyone fleeing a warzone, and it is perverse to only take the ones that dare and succeed the dangerous crossing - almost encouraging a perilous risk of human life.
    It's also important to remember that most of the people are *not* Libyans. I think the latest bunch were from Somalia and Eritrea. Saying we will take them because there is a war in Libya makes no sense.
    It seems odd to take Somali refugees when there's a thriving Somali state right next door in Somaliland.
    Ah yes, Somaliland. Does anyone know why that hasn't been recognised? I'd heard it was both stable and even democratic?
    I have been to Hargeisa in Somaliland. I even posted on pb.com there, from my hotel garden (the wifi was very good).

    I don't know what the power politics behind refusing recognition were, but they had a functioning state, backed up by democratic elections.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    Nice cartoon, Marf!
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    Stilll all to play for.

    17 days to go and got all BJO family to register. 8 LAB votes secured

    Is your constituency a marginal, currently Labour or what? Those 8 votes may be entirely wasted from an electoral perspective!

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
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    JamesMJamesM Posts: 221
    FTP

    @tyson - Welcome to the clarets supporters team! A lifetime of mights and maybes!

    @foxinsoxuk - I would not say Leicester are safe with a win, you would only be on 31 points and I think 35 is needed. Indeed if you lose, you may still be fine.

    We have been solid at home, but lacking goals. Remember the 2-0 defeat last year was when Vokes got injured. Perhaps he will get back in to the goals one year on!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    kle4 said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    How we deal with those fleeing all these catastrophes is hard to say. Leaving them to drown in the Mediterranean is, quite apart from any moral considerations, unlikely to succeed. If the choice is between living with IS or possible drowning there's no decision to take. Send them somewhere else? Maybe - but where? Why would Tunisia or Morocco want to have these people? Letting them into Europe? We can't take everyone who wants to leave the Middle East or Africa.

    The only way that works, I think is to scoop them out of the water and dump them back on th beach in Libya.

    We can't take moral responsibility for everyone who sets sail across the Med.
    That seems like the right strategy to me. Have a processing centre in Tunisia or somewhere else in North Africa. We set a cap for the EU to take the top 10,000 (or whatever the number is) most desperate cases each year, and ship anyone else back to the beaches. We can't take everyone fleeing a warzone, and it is perverse to only take the ones that dare and succeed the dangerous crossing - almost encouraging a perilous risk of human life.
    It's also important to remember that most of the people are *not* Libyans. I think the latest bunch were from Somalia and Eritrea. Saying we will take them because there is a war in Libya makes no sense.
    It seems odd to take Somali refugees when there's a thriving Somali state right next door in Somaliland.
    Ah yes, Somaliland. Does anyone know why that hasn't been recognised? I'd heard it was both stable and even democratic?
    They even have English as an official language! (possible hat-tip to the region being a British protectorate before 1960).
    Another Commonwealth member?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2015
    What the bloody hell is going on with the polls...does anybody know? Tories up, but down, and down but up...and now behind on this issue etc etc etc.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    incumbency factor
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Lack of "private polling" from Torbay speaking quite loudly for the blues imo...
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Stilll all to play for.

    17 days to go and got all BJO family to register. 8 LAB votes secured

    We Blues really do need to get the staff back breeding in double digits. It's the only way to counter these public sector early retirees with nothing else to do....
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    edited April 2015
    SeanT said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Same vibe I'm getting. Labour have to deal with this. But how?

    If I were Miliband I'd say that "I would never do a deal with the SNP under any circumstances, nor rely on them for any votes to sustain my government."

    In other words, I'd lie.
    "I'd call another election and aim to secure a majority". Obviously repealing the dreadful FTPA in the process
  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Pulpstar said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Lack of "private polling" from Torbay speaking quite loudly for the blues imo...
    I wonder how Marcus would feel if the Tories finally picked off Torbay. Delighted I'm sure but he wouldnt be human if it wasnt slightly bittersweet.

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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    SeanT said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Same vibe I'm getting. Labour have to deal with this. But how?

    If I were Miliband I'd say that "I would never do a deal with the SNP under any circumstances, nor rely on them for any votes to sustain my government."

    In other words, I'd lie.
    That's unrealistic. And voters know it. Isn't the obvious answer that he should be pushing to get every possible Labour vote so that Labour can form a majority government without needing SNP votes - though I confess I don't know whether that is at all doable.

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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    40% of Tories?!

    Isam is right, UKIP will be very happy with 32%... perhaps respondents effectively treated the question as a forced choice between the three alternatives.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited April 2015
    Neil said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Lack of "private polling" from Torbay speaking quite loudly for the blues imo...
    I wonder how Marcus would feel if the Tories finally picked off Torbay. Delighted I'm sure but he wouldnt be human if it wasnt slightly bittersweet.

    Marcus Wood seemed to be somewhat overconfident. But I think the whole "Tories will never win Torbay back groupthink" meme was what set the initial odds at a very tasty 9-4.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    How we deal with those fleeing all these catastrophes is hard to say. Leaving them to drown in the Mediterranean is, quite apart from any moral considerations, unlikely to succeed. If the choice is between living with IS or possible drowning there's no decision to take. Send them somewhere else? Maybe - but where? Why would Tunisia or Morocco want to have these people? Letting them into Europe? We can't take everyone who wants to leave the Middle East or Africa.

    The only way that works, I think is to scoop them out of the water and dump them back on th beach in Libya.

    We can't take moral responsibility for everyone who sets sail across the Med.
    That seems like the right strategy to me. Have a processing centre in Tunisia or somewhere else in North Africa. We set a cap for the EU to take the top 10,000 (or whatever the number is) most desperate cases each year, and ship anyone else back to the beaches. We can't take everyone fleeing a warzone, and it is perverse to only take the ones that dare and succeed the dangerous crossing - almost encouraging a perilous risk of human life.
    It's also important to remember that most of the people are *not* Libyans. I think the latest bunch were from Somalia and Eritrea. Saying we will take them because there is a war in Libya makes no sense.
    It seems odd to take Somali refugees when there's a thriving Somali state right next door in Somaliland.
    Ah yes, Somaliland. Does anyone know why that hasn't been recognised? I'd heard it was both stable and even democratic?
    They even have English as an official language! (possible hat-tip to the region being a British protectorate before 1960).
    Another Commonwealth member?
    Already in my list of English-speaking states and territories - which includes the whole EU :)
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    What the bloody hell is going on with the polls...does anybody know? Tories up, but down, and down but up...and now behind on this issue etc etc etc.

    If you average them they all say the same thing, no change.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    How we deal with those fleeing all these catastrophes is hard to say. Leaving them to drown in the Mediterranean is, quite apart from any moral considerations, unlikely to succeed. If the choice is between living with IS or possible drowning there's no decision to take. Send them somewhere else? Maybe - but where? Why would Tunisia or Morocco want to have these people? Letting them into Europe? We can't take everyone who wants to leave the Middle East or Africa.

    The only way that works, I think is to scoop them out of the water and dump them back on th beach in Libya.

    We can't take moral responsibility for everyone who sets sail across the Med.
    That seems like the right strategy to me. Have a processing centre in Tunisia or somewhere else in North Africa. We set a cap for the EU to take the top 10,000 (or whatever the number is) most desperate cases each year, and ship anyone else back to the beaches. We can't take everyone fleeing a warzone, and it is perverse to only take the ones that dare and succeed the dangerous crossing - almost encouraging a perilous risk of human life.
    It's also important to remember that most of the people are *not* Libyans. I think the latest bunch were from Somalia and Eritrea. Saying we will take them because there is a war in Libya makes no sense.
    It seems odd to take Somali refugees when there's a thriving Somali state right next door in Somaliland.
    Ah yes, Somaliland. Does anyone know why that hasn't been recognised? I'd heard it was both stable and even democratic?
    They even have English as an official language! (possible hat-tip to the region being a British protectorate before 1960).
    Another Commonwealth member?
    Already in my list of English-speaking states and territories - which includes the whole EU :)
    I imagine the French aren't too happy about that!!
  • Options
    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    JamesM said:

    FTP

    @tyson - Welcome to the clarets supporters team! A lifetime of mights and maybes!

    @foxinsoxuk - I would not say Leicester are safe with a win, you would only be on 31 points and I think 35 is needed. Indeed if you lose, you may still be fine.

    We have been solid at home, but lacking goals. Remember the 2-0 defeat last year was when Vokes got injured. Perhaps he will get back in to the goals one year on!

    The Big Mo is with Leicester, unlike Hull.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,336
    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.
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    FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Grandiose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    40% of Tories?!

    Isam is right, UKIP will be very happy with 32%... perhaps respondents effectively treated the question as a forced choice between the three alternatives.
    Hard to spin those findings as anything other than good for UKIP. Poor for the Lib Dems, especially as they try to be as inoffensive as possible, along with their centrist positioning.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Grandiose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    40% of Tories?!

    Isam is right, UKIP will be very happy with 32%... perhaps respondents effectively treated the question as a forced choice between the three alternatives.
    No, I don't think so. I think a lot of Tories would rather be in a coalition with UKIP. And I think a lot of Tories like the LibDem coalition too. In - admittedly metropolitan circles, full of people isam would loathe - the coalition is regarded as having been reasonably successful in a very difficult environment. I think a lot of people would vote for its continuation if they had the option.
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    franklynfranklyn Posts: 297

    Stilll all to play for.

    17 days to go and got all BJO family to register. 8 LAB votes secured

    I had the idea that there was something called a secret ballot...or did you assist them?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited April 2015

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    I'd imagine the SNP would be a bigger factor in LD-Con battles than Lab-Con actually. And certainly in Torbay over Broxtowe.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    FalseFlag said:

    Grandiose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    40% of Tories?!

    Isam is right, UKIP will be very happy with 32%... perhaps respondents effectively treated the question as a forced choice between the three alternatives.
    Hard to spin those findings as anything other than good for UKIP. Poor for the Lib Dems, especially as they try to be as inoffensive as possible, along with their centrist positioning.
    So: more people wanting to get into bed with the Europhile LibDems than the Eurosceptic UKIP is good news for UKIP.

    Unspoofable.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Mr. T, Clegg discovered promising one thing and delivering another can do terminal damage to a brand.

    And it'd be worse for Labour if they got into bed with the SNP. The Conservatives would take huge chunks out of red England, UKIP would get in where the blues couldn't, and it'd help the Lib Dems come back.

    But, as I've said before, Miliband will be desperate to become PM because if he doesn't he ended his brother's political career and caused huge family turmoil for nothing. He's also a damned fool who thinks price fixing works and the answer to every question is state intervention. I'd be unsurprised if he tried to carve England into pathetic little fiefdoms.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    How we deal with those fleeing all these catastrophes is hard to say. Leaving them to drown in the Mediterranean is, quite apart from any moral considerations, unlikely to succeed. If the choice is between living with IS or possible drowning there's no decision to take. Send them somewhere else? Maybe - but where? Why would Tunisia or Morocco want to have these people? Letting them into Europe? We can't take everyone who wants to leave the Middle East or Africa.

    The only way that works, I think is to scoop them out of the water and dump them back on th beach in Libya.

    We can't take moral responsibility for everyone who sets sail across the Med.
    That seems like the right strategy to me. Have a processing centre in Tunisia or somewhere else in North Africa. We set a cap for the EU to take the top 10,000 (or whatever the number is) most desperate cases each year, and ship anyone else back to the beaches. We can't take everyone fleeing a warzone, and it is perverse to only take the ones that dare and succeed the dangerous crossing - almost encouraging a perilous risk of human life.
    It's also important to remember that most of the people are *not* Libyans. I think the latest bunch were from Somalia and Eritrea. Saying we will take them because there is a war in Libya makes no sense.
    It seems odd to take Somali refugees when there's a thriving Somali state right next door in Somaliland.
    Ah yes, Somaliland. Does anyone know why that hasn't been recognised? I'd heard it was both stable and even democratic?
    They even have English as an official language! (possible hat-tip to the region being a British protectorate before 1960).
    Another Commonwealth member?
    Already in my list of English-speaking states and territories - which includes the whole EU :)
    I imagine the French aren't too happy about that!!
    They will have representation in my fantasy Imperial Senate, bien sûr :)
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    Is there a list of all polls with change on previous poll available easily?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
    They'll hold Yeovil, I suspect. Largely because the Conservatives have failed to find a candidate to the right of David Laws. (Joke)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited April 2015
    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Same vibe I'm getting. Labour have to deal with this. But how?

    If I were Miliband I'd say that "I would never do a deal with the SNP under any circumstances, nor rely on them for any votes to sustain my government."

    In other words, I'd lie.
    Isn't the obvious answer that he should be pushing to get every possible Labour vote so that Labour can form a majority government without needing SNP votes

    That sort of answer is so cliche I don't know why Labour (and Tories for the 'work with UKIP' variant) do not just carry the answer around on card or a soundfile and produce it whenever asked. At this point it's one of those stock non-answer answers which cannot possibly fool anyone. Surely there comes a time when the proper political response is just so obviously token they may as well say something approaching the truth, like 'We do not want to do that, and we care confident that we will not have to do that (this bit is a bit stretching the truth admittedly), but we will of course consider on the numbers as the British people determine how best to react, though we certainly have no plans to work with x'.

    It's not great by any means, as well as using the 'no plans' stock response, but it's better than the insult to our intelligence of what we are getting.

    Mr. T, Clegg discovered promising one thing and delivering another can do terminal damage to a brand.

    Normally it isn't though, so he's been unlucky in that respect.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
    As I reported on Saturday, the Home Secretary was visiting Yeovil after Torbay.

    Make of that what you will....
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    SeanT said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Same vibe I'm getting. Labour have to deal with this. But how?

    If I were Miliband I'd say that "I would never do a deal with the SNP under any circumstances, nor rely on them for any votes to sustain my government."

    In other words, I'd lie.
    Tssk, if only the Scots weren't scare-mongered into voting No!
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Same vibe I'm getting. Labour have to deal with this. But how?

    If I were Miliband I'd say that "I would never do a deal with the SNP under any circumstances, nor rely on them for any votes to sustain my government."

    In other words, I'd lie.
    The Tories and the SNP both benifit by continuously throwing sh*t at eachother, and Labour are kind of lost in between without a coherent message.
  • Options
    FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Grandiose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    40% of Tories?!

    Isam is right, UKIP will be very happy with 32%... perhaps respondents effectively treated the question as a forced choice between the three alternatives.
    Hard to spin those findings as anything other than good for UKIP. Poor for the Lib Dems, especially as they try to be as inoffensive as possible, along with their centrist positioning.
    So: more people wanting to get into bed with the Europhile LibDems than the Eurosceptic UKIP is good news for UKIP.

    Unspoofable.
    I wouldn't haven't thought the EU angle comes into it, certainly doesn't to me.

    Don't address the points I make, again.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Grandiose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    40% of Tories?!

    Isam is right, UKIP will be very happy with 32%... perhaps respondents effectively treated the question as a forced choice between the three alternatives.
    Hard to spin those findings as anything other than good for UKIP. Poor for the Lib Dems, especially as they try to be as inoffensive as possible, along with their centrist positioning.
    So: more people wanting to get into bed with the Europhile LibDems than the Eurosceptic UKIP is good news for UKIP.

    Unspoofable.
    I can reverse that.
    More people wanting to get into bed with Eurosceptic Farage than Europhile Clegg is good news for Clegg.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    How we deal with those fleeing all these catastrophes is hard to say. Leaving them to drown in the Mediterranean is, quite apart from any moral considerations, unlikely to succeed. If the choice is between living with IS or possible drowning there's no decision to take. Send them somewhere else? Maybe - but where? Why would Tunisia or Morocco want to have these people? Letting them into Europe? We can't take everyone who wants to leave the Middle East or Africa.

    The only way that works, I think is to scoop them out of the water and dump them back on th beach in Libya.

    We can't take moral responsibility for everyone who sets sail across the Med.
    That seems like the right strategy to me. Have a processing centre in Tunisia or somewhere else in North Africa. We set a cap for the EU to take the top 10,000 (or whatever the number is) most desperate cases each year, and ship anyone else back to the beaches. We can't take everyone fleeing a warzone, and it is perverse to only take the ones that dare and succeed the dangerous crossing - almost encouraging a perilous risk of human life.
    It's also important to remember that most of the people are *not* Libyans. I think the latest bunch were from Somalia and Eritrea. Saying we will take them because there is a war in Libya makes no sense.
    It seems odd to take Somali refugees when there's a thriving Somali state right next door in Somaliland.
    Ah yes, Somaliland. Does anyone know why that hasn't been recognised? I'd heard it was both stable and even democratic?
    They even have English as an official language! (possible hat-tip to the region being a British protectorate before 1960).
    Another Commonwealth member?
    Already in my list of English-speaking states and territories - which includes the whole EU :)
    I imagine the French aren't too happy about that!!
    They will have representation in my fantasy Imperial Senate, bien sûr :)
    Non-voting, one hopes :p
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    isam said:

    Is there a list of all polls with change on previous poll available easily?

    You can sort the table in Wikipedia by polling company to quickly scan the poll-by-poll changes

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election#2015
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Same vibe I'm getting. Labour have to deal with this. But how?

    If I were Miliband I'd say that "I would never do a deal with the SNP under any circumstances, nor rely on them for any votes to sustain my government."

    In other words, I'd lie.
    That's unrealistic. And voters know it. Isn't the obvious answer that he should be pushing to get every possible Labour vote so that Labour can form a majority government without needing SNP votes - though I confess I don't know whether that is at all doable.

    Why is it unrealistic? Politicians lie all the time.

    What you're suggesting is what he is already doing, and it ain't working.
    It's not the lying which is unrealistic. But saying that he won't rely on SNP votes since senior Lab people are already saying the opposite.

    I don't know whether the SNP issue will necessarily be such a big bogeyman as some seem to think. If you're pro-Labour why would it worry you that there will be another left-wing anti-austerity party around to stiffen Labour views?

    If you're not Labour then it might well be a problem. But voters might just look at it as the opposite of the Tory/Lib Dem coalition and go, hmph: we've had one coalition; we'll survive another one with different ingredients.

  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2015

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
    As I reported on Saturday, the Home Secretary was visiting Yeovil after Torbay.

    Make of that what you will....
    Maybe she's having Tea with Laws and Ashdown.

    The people of Yeovil didn't want to get rid of Laws even after his big scandal, so why now?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    isam said:

    Is there a list of all polls with change on previous poll available easily?

    May2015 website has it for the latest polls.
  • Options
    FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Grandiose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    40% of Tories?!

    Isam is right, UKIP will be very happy with 32%... perhaps respondents effectively treated the question as a forced choice between the three alternatives.
    Hard to spin those findings as anything other than good for UKIP. Poor for the Lib Dems, especially as they try to be as inoffensive as possible, along with their centrist positioning.
    So: more people wanting to get into bed with the Europhile LibDems than the Eurosceptic UKIP is good news for UKIP.

    Unspoofable.
    I can reverse that.
    More people wanting to get into bed with Eurosceptic Farage than Europhile Clegg is good news for Clegg.
    The SNP are europhile. UKIP and Farage are more preferred, substantially so.

    I am parodying, I don't think it is relevant.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Same vibe I'm getting. Labour have to deal with this. But how?

    If I were Miliband I'd say that "I would never do a deal with the SNP under any circumstances, nor rely on them for any votes to sustain my government."

    In other words, I'd lie.
    The narrative today has completely changed the GE and there is absolutely nothing Ed Miliband or labour can say or do (other than saying I agree with Nicola). The irony is that the wall to wall media coverage has created this story and all David Cameron and the conservatives needs t do is to pick up the narrative and make huge political gains out of it in RUK
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    JEO said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    How we deal with those fleeing all these catastrophes is hard to say. Leaving them to drown in the Mediterranean is, quite apart from any moral considerations, unlikely to succeed. If the choice is between living with IS or possible drowning there's no decision to take. Send them somewhere else? Maybe - but where? Why would Tunisia or Morocco want to have these people? Letting them into Europe? We can't take everyone who wants to leave the Middle East or Africa.

    The only way that works, I think is to scoop them out of the water and dump them back on th beach in Libya.

    We can't take moral responsibility for everyone who sets sail across the Med.
    That seems like the right strategy to me. Have a processing centre in Tunisia or somewhere else in North Africa. We set a cap for the EU to take the top 10,000 (or whatever the number is) most desperate cases each year, and ship anyone else back to the beaches. We can't take everyone fleeing a warzone, and it is perverse to only take the ones that dare and succeed the dangerous crossing - almost encouraging a perilous risk of human life.
    It's also important to remember that most of the people are *not* Libyans. I think the latest bunch were from Somalia and Eritrea. Saying we will take them because there is a war in Libya makes no sense.
    It seems odd to take Somali refugees when there's a thriving Somali state right next door in Somaliland.
    Ah yes, Somaliland. Does anyone know why that hasn't been recognised? I'd heard it was both stable and even democratic?
    They even have English as an official language! (possible hat-tip to the region being a British protectorate before 1960).
    Another Commonwealth member?
    Already in my list of English-speaking states and territories - which includes the whole EU :)
    I imagine the French aren't too happy about that!!
    They will have representation in my fantasy Imperial Senate, bien sûr :)
    Non-voting, one hopes :p
    Well I've given the Germans voting rights, so no choice :)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    ComRes/ITV: Who/which parties/leaders voters would like/not like involved in government. Bad for SNP Labour/UKIP better LDs
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    Nick, there is certainly a fear that having a tie-up with the SNP will kill future infrastructure investment into the South West. Although Labour has already started that ball rolling in their manifesto, saying they would cancel a major road upgrade.

    If you want a shock Labour loss, folks, try Plymouth Moor View. Johnny Mercer is a fabulously energetic (ex military) candidate for the Tories. I'm told he aims to have personally knocked on every door in the constituency by election day.

    And Labour are having a bit of a mare with UKIP, so I am told....
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    SeanT said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Same vibe I'm getting. Labour have to deal with this. But how?

    If I were Miliband I'd say that "I would never do a deal with the SNP under any circumstances, nor rely on them for any votes to sustain my government."

    In other words, I'd lie.
    The narrative today has completely changed the GE and there is absolutely nothing Ed Miliband or labour can say or do (other than saying I agree with Nicola). The irony is that the wall to wall media coverage has created this story and all David Cameron and the conservatives needs t do is to pick up the narrative and make huge political gains out of it in RUK
    Which is what I'm sure John Major will do tomorrow.

    Which by one of those strange coincidences is exactly how he spent the final week of the 1992 campaign (denouncing Labour's devolutiun proposals) to seemingly great effect.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    JamesM said:

    FTP

    @tyson - Welcome to the clarets supporters team! A lifetime of mights and maybes!

    @foxinsoxuk - I would not say Leicester are safe with a win, you would only be on 31 points and I think 35 is needed. Indeed if you lose, you may still be fine.

    We have been solid at home, but lacking goals. Remember the 2-0 defeat last year was when Vokes got injured. Perhaps he will get back in to the goals one year on!

    The Big Mo is with Leicester, unlike Hull.
    Sunderland and Hull have very tough run ins and are playing very poorly. Leicester the best (apart from Chelea) but there will be twists and turns!

    While mathematically not certain a win against Burnley would leave us needing 4 points from Chelsea H, Newcastle H, Southampton H, Sunderland A and QPR H. The last could be a hell of a final day if we are both still in the running.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Mr. kle4, Clegg buggered up the non-fulfilment with a three-way split after an abstention had been negotiated.

    There's no avoiding SNP influence in a Lab-SNP arrangement. Saying 'it's not a formal coalition' is like saying 'she's not my girlfriend, we're just mutually exclusive **** buddies'.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Grandiose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    40% of Tories?!

    Isam is right, UKIP will be very happy with 32%... perhaps respondents effectively treated the question as a forced choice between the three alternatives.
    Hard to spin those findings as anything other than good for UKIP. Poor for the Lib Dems, especially as they try to be as inoffensive as possible, along with their centrist positioning.
    So: more people wanting to get into bed with the Europhile LibDems than the Eurosceptic UKIP is good news for UKIP.

    Unspoofable.
    I can reverse that.
    More people wanting to get into bed with Eurosceptic Farage than Europhile Clegg is good news for Clegg.
    It's clearly bloody awful news for Clegg. It's fair to say that - of the four main party leaders - Clegg is the most obviously a dead man walking. There will be three or four Liberal Democrat MPs, ones who lost their seats by a few hundred or a thousand votes, who will be cursing Nick Clegg come May 8th.

    But, ultimately, despite UKIP's higher poll ratings, fewer people want UKIP in power than want the LibDems. And by a ratio of more than 1.5:1, more people don't want UKIP in power. (And, again, this is a massively worse ratio than the LibDem's one.)

    Those who claim this is "good news" for UKIP have entered into a higher state of cognitive dissonance.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    JohnO said:

    SeanT said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Same vibe I'm getting. Labour have to deal with this. But how?

    If I were Miliband I'd say that "I would never do a deal with the SNP under any circumstances, nor rely on them for any votes to sustain my government."

    In other words, I'd lie.
    The narrative today has completely changed the GE and there is absolutely nothing Ed Miliband or labour can say or do (other than saying I agree with Nicola). The irony is that the wall to wall media coverage has created this story and all David Cameron and the conservatives needs t do is to pick up the narrative and make huge political gains out of it in RUK
    Which is what I'm sure John Major will do tomorrow.

    Which by one of those strange coincidences is exactly how he spent the final week of the 1992 campaign (denouncing Labour's devolutiun proposals) to seemingly great effect.
    Don't get us PB Tories all excited with the prospect of 92 repeated. A glorious election. :D
  • Options
    FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    edited April 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Grandiose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    40% of Tories?!

    Isam is right, UKIP will be very happy with 32%... perhaps respondents effectively treated the question as a forced choice between the three alternatives.
    Hard to spin those findings as anything other than good for UKIP. Poor for the Lib Dems, especially as they try to be as inoffensive as possible, along with their centrist positioning.
    So: more people wanting to get into bed with the Europhile LibDems than the Eurosceptic UKIP is good news for UKIP.

    Unspoofable.
    I can reverse that.
    More people wanting to get into bed with Eurosceptic Farage than Europhile Clegg is good news for Clegg.
    It's clearly bloody awful news for Clegg. It's fair to say that - of the four main party leaders - Clegg is the most obviously a dead man walking. There will be three or four Liberal Democrat MPs, ones who lost their seats by a few hundred or a thousand votes, who will be cursing Nick Clegg come May 8th.

    But, ultimately, despite UKIP's higher poll ratings, fewer people want UKIP in power than want the LibDems. And by a ratio of more than 1.5:1, more people don't want UKIP in power. (And, again, this is a massively worse ratio than the LibDem's one.)

    Those who claim this is "good news" for UKIP have entered into a higher state of cognitive dissonance.
    You do understand the concept of relative don't you?

    Or perhaps you expected a lot higher numbers for UKIP, I was expecting better for the Lib Dems.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
    As I reported on Saturday, the Home Secretary was visiting Yeovil after Torbay.

    Make of that what you will....
    Maybe she's having Tea with Laws and Ashdown.

    The people of Yeovil didn't want to get rid of Laws even after his big scandal, so why now?
    The Telegraph exposed Laws AFTER the 2010 general election. He was out the Cabinet and suspended from Parliament AFTER the 2010 general election.

    His voters have yet to pass judgment on his little expenses difficulty.....
  • Options
    JohnO said:

    SeanT said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Same vibe I'm getting. Labour have to deal with this. But how?

    If I were Miliband I'd say that "I would never do a deal with the SNP under any circumstances, nor rely on them for any votes to sustain my government."

    In other words, I'd lie.
    The narrative today has completely changed the GE and there is absolutely nothing Ed Miliband or labour can say or do (other than saying I agree with Nicola). The irony is that the wall to wall media coverage has created this story and all David Cameron and the conservatives needs t do is to pick up the narrative and make huge political gains out of it in RUK
    Which is what I'm sure John Major will do tomorrow.

    Which by one of those strange coincidences is exactly how he spent the final week of the 1992 campaign (denouncing Labour's devolutiun proposals) to seemingly great effect.
    Hasn't Micheal Fosyth's intervention confused that line of attack.

    I think Labour need to push the idea that both the SNP and Tories benefit from dividing the country and the union, and it's only Labour that will secure the union. That's the only line of attack that might have some potency.

    Also they need Gordon Brown out in Scotland every day. He might be about as attractive as Ebola to English voters but he still carries weight north of the border.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    Nick, there is certainly a fear that having a tie-up with the SNP will kill future infrastructure investment into the South West. Although Labour has already started that ball rolling in their manifesto, saying they would cancel a major road upgrade.

    If you want a shock Labour loss, folks, try Plymouth Moor View. Johnny Mercer is a fabulously energetic (ex military) candidate for the Tories. I'm told he aims to have personally knocked on every door in the constituency by election day.

    And Labour are having a bit of a mare with UKIP, so I am told....
    Plymouth Moor View, latest constituency poll:

    LAB 35
    UKIP 30
    CON 26

    There is a much greater chance UKIP take that seat than the "energetic candidate'.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    SeanT said:

    Today's Newsnight Index is bad news for Labour (-6) and good news for SNP (+4) and Tories (+3)

    CON: 283
    LAB: 269
    SNP: 47
    LD: 26
    KIP: 1
    GRN: 1
    Others: 23

    That would, I think, be some kind of minority Cameron govt.

    Nope, not on those numbers - Con + LD need at least 5 more.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    Speedy said:

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    Nick, there is certainly a fear that having a tie-up with the SNP will kill future infrastructure investment into the South West. Although Labour has already started that ball rolling in their manifesto, saying they would cancel a major road upgrade.

    If you want a shock Labour loss, folks, try Plymouth Moor View. Johnny Mercer is a fabulously energetic (ex military) candidate for the Tories. I'm told he aims to have personally knocked on every door in the constituency by election day.

    And Labour are having a bit of a mare with UKIP, so I am told....
    Plymouth Moor View, latest constituency poll:

    LAB 35
    UKIP 30
    CON 26

    There is a much greater chance UKIP take that seat than the "energetic candidate'.
    When and by whom?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
    As I reported on Saturday, the Home Secretary was visiting Yeovil after Torbay.

    Make of that what you will....
    Maybe she's having Tea with Laws and Ashdown.

    The people of Yeovil didn't want to get rid of Laws even after his big scandal, so why now?
    The Telegraph exposed Laws AFTER the 2010 general election. He was out the Cabinet and suspended from Parliament AFTER the 2010 general election.

    His voters have yet to pass judgment on his little expenses difficulty.....
    I remember a BBC report after the scandal with lots of sympathetic people in Yeovil saying that Laws was a great man and shouldn't resign AFTER the scandal.
  • Options
    JamesMJamesM Posts: 221
    edited April 2015
    Burnley's run-in isn't too bad but we need that win, however lucky or scrappy to boost the confidence. After Leicester we have, West Ham (a), Hull (a), Stoke (h), Villa (a) - so teams with either little to play for, or in generally poor form. The problem we have is that there are only 2 homes matches in the last 5 games. If it goes to the last match of the season I hope Villa are safe and dreaming of Wembley!
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    Nick, there is certainly a fear that having a tie-up with the SNP will kill future infrastructure investment into the South West. Although Labour has already started that ball rolling in their manifesto, saying they would cancel a major road upgrade.

    If you want a shock Labour loss, folks, try Plymouth Moor View. Johnny Mercer is a fabulously energetic (ex military) candidate for the Tories. I'm told he aims to have personally knocked on every door in the constituency by election day.

    And Labour are having a bit of a mare with UKIP, so I am told....
    Plymouth Moor View, latest constituency poll:

    LAB 35
    UKIP 30
    CON 26

    There is a much greater chance UKIP take that seat than the "energetic candidate'.
    When and by whom?
    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/01/plymouth-moor-view/
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Grandiose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    40% of Tories?!

    Isam is right, UKIP will be very happy with 32%... perhaps respondents effectively treated the question as a forced choice between the three alternatives.
    Hard to spin those findings as anything other than good for UKIP. Poor for the Lib Dems, especially as they try to be as inoffensive as possible, along with their centrist positioning.
    So: more people wanting to get into bed with the Europhile LibDems than the Eurosceptic UKIP is good news for UKIP.

    Unspoofable.
    I can reverse that.
    More people wanting to get into bed with Eurosceptic Farage than Europhile Clegg is good news for Clegg.
    It's clearly bloody awful news for Clegg. It's fair to say that - of the four main party leaders - Clegg is the most obviously a dead man walking. There will be three or four Liberal Democrat MPs, ones who lost their seats by a few hundred or a thousand votes, who will be cursing Nick Clegg come May 8th.

    But, ultimately, despite UKIP's higher poll ratings, fewer people want UKIP in power than want the LibDems. And by a ratio of more than 1.5:1, more people don't want UKIP in power. (And, again, this is a massively worse ratio than the LibDem's one.)

    Those who claim this is "good news" for UKIP have entered into a higher state of cognitive dissonance.
    You do understand the concept of relative don't you?

    Or perhaps you expected a lot higher numbers for UKIP, I was expecting better for the Lib Dems.
    I find it astonishing that a poll finding that finds UKIP is less preferred than the LibDems as a coalition partner is considered good news.

    UKIP, who placed first in the Euro elections in 2014, doesn't even manage to get the same share of voters who think it should be in any position in government.

    But I guess if your ambition is to become the fourth party of British politics, then it is good news.

    Cognitive dissonance, thy embodiment is FalseFlag.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    Speedy said:

    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    Nick, there is certainly a fear that having a tie-up with the SNP will kill future infrastructure investment into the South West. Although Labour has already started that ball rolling in their manifesto, saying they would cancel a major road upgrade.

    If you want a shock Labour loss, folks, try Plymouth Moor View. Johnny Mercer is a fabulously energetic (ex military) candidate for the Tories. I'm told he aims to have personally knocked on every door in the constituency by election day.

    And Labour are having a bit of a mare with UKIP, so I am told....
    Plymouth Moor View, latest constituency poll:

    LAB 35
    UKIP 30
    CON 26

    There is a much greater chance UKIP take that seat than the "energetic candidate'.
    When and by whom?
    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/01/plymouth-moor-view/
    Thanks but somewhat dated wouldn't you agree?
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Had more vote Tory get Ed leaflets from LDs in Bristol West - complete with gurning visage of Miliband with added no money left quotes from Byrne. That leaflet was for me, whereas my wife gets the only LDs can save NHS stuff. One leaflet from Cons, UKIP and Greens - still to photograph those.

    Labour leaflet has candidate with Harman not Miliband. Harman an electoral asset FFS...still laughting at that one, but there will be some women who think she is a wonderful human being, but they could be on something powerful, and only available on prescription from a psychiatrist.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    Nick, there is certainly a fear that having a tie-up with the SNP will kill future infrastructure investment into the South West. Although Labour has already started that ball rolling in their manifesto, saying they would cancel a major road upgrade.

    If you want a shock Labour loss, folks, try Plymouth Moor View. Johnny Mercer is a fabulously energetic (ex military) candidate for the Tories. I'm told he aims to have personally knocked on every door in the constituency by election day.

    And Labour are having a bit of a mare with UKIP, so I am told....
    Plymouth Moor View, latest constituency poll:

    LAB 35
    UKIP 30
    CON 26

    There is a much greater chance UKIP take that seat than the "energetic candidate'.
    When and by whom?
    I reckon UKIP and CON would have switched places there now tbh - people go into Lab vs Con mode, less than 1% will have noted that Ashcroft poll.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    Been out all day in Torbay. Beautiful sunny day - getting as brown as a berry.

    The SNP are proving the Tories best recruiting sergeant. By a country mile. Spent the day canvassing previously identified waverers. The number of people who raised "that Nicola Sturgeon" unprompted was startling.

    Blue nosepegs being re-ordered in bulk....

    Same vibe I'm getting. Labour have to deal with this. But how?

    If I were Miliband I'd say that "I would never do a deal with the SNP under any circumstances, nor rely on them for any votes to sustain my government."

    In other words, I'd lie.
    That's unrealistic. And voters know it. Isn't the obvious answer that he should be pushing to get every possible Labour vote so that Labour can form a majority government without needing SNP votes - though I confess I don't know whether that is at all doable.

    Why is it unrealistic? Politicians lie all the time.

    What you're suggesting is what he is already doing, and it ain't working.
    It's not the lying which is unrealistic. But saying that he won't rely on SNP votes since senior Lab people are already saying the opposite.

    I don't know whether the SNP issue will necessarily be such a big bogeyman as some seem to think. If you're pro-Labour why would it worry you that there will be another left-wing anti-austerity party around to stiffen Labour views?

    If you're not Labour then it might well be a problem. But voters might just look at it as the opposite of the Tory/Lib Dem coalition and go, hmph: we've had one coalition; we'll survive another one with different ingredients.

    Labour's vote is soft, we know that. A lot of Blairites don't like Miliband, a lot of LD switches could easily switch back to the LDs.

    Plus a lot of rUK people in poorer areas (Cornwall, Wales, the north) really dislike the idea of the Scots (who they already see as indulged) getting an even bigger slice of the pie (when they already have their own government, "protecting" them from Westminster and nasty tuition fees etc).

    The idea of 5m Scotch calling the shots in England (population 55m) challenges the innate English sense of fair play, even - perhaps - with Lefties.

    One big problem with your thesis.
    In the polls more and more people have a positive view of Sturgeon and the SNP, thanks to the debates too.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Speedy said:

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    Nick, there is certainly a fear that having a tie-up with the SNP will kill future infrastructure investment into the South West. Although Labour has already started that ball rolling in their manifesto, saying they would cancel a major road upgrade.

    If you want a shock Labour loss, folks, try Plymouth Moor View. Johnny Mercer is a fabulously energetic (ex military) candidate for the Tories. I'm told he aims to have personally knocked on every door in the constituency by election day.

    And Labour are having a bit of a mare with UKIP, so I am told....
    Plymouth Moor View, latest constituency poll:

    LAB 35
    UKIP 30
    CON 26

    There is a much greater chance UKIP take that seat than the "energetic candidate'.
    Not what my man on the ground says....
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    Speedy said:

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    Nick, there is certainly a fear that having a tie-up with the SNP will kill future infrastructure investment into the South West. Although Labour has already started that ball rolling in their manifesto, saying they would cancel a major road upgrade.

    If you want a shock Labour loss, folks, try Plymouth Moor View. Johnny Mercer is a fabulously energetic (ex military) candidate for the Tories. I'm told he aims to have personally knocked on every door in the constituency by election day.

    And Labour are having a bit of a mare with UKIP, so I am told....
    Plymouth Moor View, latest constituency poll:

    LAB 35
    UKIP 30
    CON 26

    There is a much greater chance UKIP take that seat than the "energetic candidate'.
    Another seat tipped by me as a value UKIP bet in May 2013
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    edited April 2015

    Speedy said:

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    Nick, there is certainly a fear that having a tie-up with the SNP will kill future infrastructure investment into the South West. Although Labour has already started that ball rolling in their manifesto, saying they would cancel a major road upgrade.

    If you want a shock Labour loss, folks, try Plymouth Moor View. Johnny Mercer is a fabulously energetic (ex military) candidate for the Tories. I'm told he aims to have personally knocked on every door in the constituency by election day.

    And Labour are having a bit of a mare with UKIP, so I am told....
    Plymouth Moor View, latest constituency poll:

    LAB 35
    UKIP 30
    CON 26

    There is a much greater chance UKIP take that seat than the "energetic candidate'.
    Not what my man on the ground says....
    I am reminded of 1992, when my mother (OGH's better half) became convinced that Mike Smithson would be elected Member of Parliament for Bedfordshire North East. My mother, it bears noting, is among the most pessimistic people I have ever met. People involved in campaigns, working incredibly hard, hanging out with people who share their points of view... always become excessively optimistic.

    Therefore I prefer to listen only to negative reports :-) (It was when a friend of mine, historically active in the Cambridge Labour Party first told me that Huppert was going to walk re-election that I realised that there was free money on the table.)
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    On Saturday, I met a PC candidate in Llangollen, who was being helped out by an SNP supporter. Not sure how being left of Labour wins over votes in areas which rely on tourism and sheep farming. Am wondering how LD vote will hold up in Mid Wales and The Marches - there are some very marginal seats out there.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Grandiose said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Naturallmondo I disagree with the statement "Bad for UKIP"

    32% of people want us to play a role in the next British govt? Fantastic

    Yes, it's quite a remarkable figure really. Perhaps we found the shy kippers.

    Well, it's the 15% who vote for UKIP directly, plus 40% of Tory voters, plus 10% of Labour voters.

    Nevertheless, it's telling that it's worse than the rampantly pro-European LibDems.
    40% of Tories?!

    So: more people wanting to get into bed with the Europhile LibDems than the Eurosceptic UKIP is good news for UKIP.

    Unspoofable.
    I can reverse that.
    More people wanting to get into bed with Eurosceptic Farage than Europhile Clegg is good news for Clegg.
    It's clearly bloody awful news for Clegg. It's fair to say that - of the four main party leaders - Clegg is the most obviously a dead man walking. There will be three or four Liberal Democrat MPs, ones who lost their seats by a few hundred or a thousand votes, who will be cursing Nick Clegg come May 8th.

    But, ultimately, despite UKIP's higher poll ratings, fewer people want UKIP in power than want the LibDems. And by a ratio of more than 1.5:1, more people don't want UKIP in power. (And, again, this is a massively worse ratio than the LibDem's one.)

    Those who claim this is "good news" for UKIP have entered into a higher state of cognitive dissonance.
    You do understand the concept of relative don't you?

    Or perhaps you expected a lot higher numbers for UKIP, I was expecting better for the Lib Dems.
    I find it astonishing that a poll finding that finds UKIP is less preferred than the LibDems as a coalition partner is considered good news.

    UKIP, who placed first in the Euro elections in 2014, doesn't even manage to get the same share of voters who think it should be in any position in government.

    But I guess if your ambition is to become the fourth party of British politics, then it is good news.

    Cognitive dissonance, thy embodiment is FalseFlag.
    Given that the Lib Dems are incumbent, the fav coalition partner of both Labour and Conservatives, and UKIP the most hated party they are magnificent figures
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited April 2015
    I think Jim is close to squeaming and squeaming...

    Jim Murphy‏@JimForScotland·32 mins32 minutes ago
    @David_Cameron < You have demeaned the Office of Prime Minister of the United Kingdom to become a desperate cheerleader for the SNP.

    tories are a caring bunch aren't we?

    Ruth Davidson MSP‏@RuthDavidsonMSP·10m10 minutes ago
    .@JimForScotland @David_Cameron

    you ok, hun?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    Nick, there is certainly a fear that having a tie-up with the SNP will kill future infrastructure investment into the South West. Although Labour has already started that ball rolling in their manifesto, saying they would cancel a major road upgrade.

    If you want a shock Labour loss, folks, try Plymouth Moor View. Johnny Mercer is a fabulously energetic (ex military) candidate for the Tories. I'm told he aims to have personally knocked on every door in the constituency by election day.

    And Labour are having a bit of a mare with UKIP, so I am told....
    Plymouth Moor View, latest constituency poll:

    LAB 35
    UKIP 30
    CON 26

    There is a much greater chance UKIP take that seat than the "energetic candidate'.
    Another seat tipped by me as a value UKIP bet in May 2013
    Your UKIP trading bet recommendations were outstanding. Those who followed your advice (and I only took you up in Thurrock, and not at 16/1) have made a lot of money.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,288
    If Jack W's intelligence from the senior Con source is right then in my view Cameron absolutely should not go for a head to head debate with Miliband.

    20 losses to Lab
    6 gains from LD in the bag
    10 further gains from LD too close to call

    Assume they get half of the too close to call.

    That means a net loss of 9 seats + Clacton = 10 seats down on 2010

    Which gives them 297 inc Speaker.

    That is enough for Cameron to remain PM. And the intelligence suggests continued seepage back from UKIP which should help at the margin.

    If I was Cameron I would hold my nerve. Plus the debate with Miliband has risk attached - not just in itself but the media will play it up as Cameron panicking.
  • Options
    Having had populus, icm, and ashcroft polls, apart from the daily you gov, who else will be reporting this week
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    PS News from my Cornish sources suggests the LDs will retain just one seat: North Cornwall.

    I doubt they'll even retain that. 2015 will be a LibDem bloodbath in the South West, as Red Liberals punsh them for getting into bed with the Tories.
    Not even Yeovil?
    As I reported on Saturday, the Home Secretary was visiting Yeovil after Torbay.

    Make of that what you will....
    A very decent show of Coalition solidarity by Theresa May. Well done her for supporting David Laws.

  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    An afternoon canvassing in a traditionally Tory area (Nuthall) - "what will you do with the SNP?"" was mentioned once, by someone who seemed curious rather than concerned. Quite happy to have the Tories spend a few days chasing that hare. But Marquee Mark seems to be getting a very different picture - a regional variation, maybe. Where people wanted to discuss the result, there was a unanimous expectation of a hung Parliament - people who mentioned it didn't seem enthusiastic at the prospect, but felt we'd just need to deal with it by shifting majorities as required - "What else can you do?"

    There will be an Economist piece on Broxtowe on Thursday.

    Nick, there is certainly a fear that having a tie-up with the SNP will kill future infrastructure investment into the South West. Although Labour has already started that ball rolling in their manifesto, saying they would cancel a major road upgrade.

    If you want a shock Labour loss, folks, try Plymouth Moor View. Johnny Mercer is a fabulously energetic (ex military) candidate for the Tories. I'm told he aims to have personally knocked on every door in the constituency by election day.

    And Labour are having a bit of a mare with UKIP, so I am told....
    Plymouth Moor View, latest constituency poll:

    LAB 35
    UKIP 30
    CON 26

    There is a much greater chance UKIP take that seat than the "energetic candidate'.
    Not what my man on the ground says....
    Partisan anecdotal evidence is not the best kind when you disagree with an opinion poll.

    Though the Heywood by-election was an exception, but compouter2 was in the inside of the local Labour operation and local Labour animosity with Danczuk was an excellent guide to the close result.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    SeanT writes "Plus a lot of rUK people in poorer areas (Cornwall, Wales, the north) really dislike the idea of the Scots (who they already see as indulged) getting an even bigger slice of the pie (when they already have their own government, "protecting" them from Westminster and nasty tuition fees etc)."

    From BBC Wales:

    "Answering a question at the SNP manifesto launch, Ms Sturgeon had said: "I do support Leanne Wood's and Plaid Cymru's call for parity for Wales but not at the expense of Scotland, because I do not accept that Scotland is subsidised and I will argue passionately against that notion for as long as I am in politics.”

    Well, fair play to Ms Sturgeon.

    I don’t think any of the vacuous Welsh Labour MPs have ever said anything like this. All the Kinnocks and the Hains and the Murphys and the Howells and the Bryants have never once said that Wales should have parity with Scotland. Even thought they had (in some cases) many years in power to fix this.

    Compare Ms Sturgeon with Mr Miliband, “I’m not going to make a false promise to you now, Leanne, on this stage, because it's not responsible, because we have a deficit that we have to get down."

    Nicola Sturgeon’s message (whether she means it or not) will go down a lot better then Ed Miliband’s.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Well the Edinburgh North and LEith news is nice.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    MikeL said:

    If Jack W's intelligence from the senior Con source is right then in my view Cameron absolutely should not go for a head to head debate with Miliband.

    20 losses to Lab
    6 gains from LD in the bag
    10 further gains from LD too close to call

    Assume they get half of the too close to call.

    That means a net loss of 9 seats + Clacton = 10 seats down on 2010

    Which gives them 297 inc Speaker.

    That is enough for Cameron to remain PM. And the intelligence suggests continued seepage back from UKIP which should help at the margin.

    If I was Cameron I would hold my nerve. Plus the debate with Miliband has risk attached - not just in itself but the media will play it up as Cameron panicking.

    I think you can probably take the Tories up to 20 gains from the LibDems, but you need to remember that they will probably lose at least one of Thanet South and Rochester - and possibly both - to UKIP. (And possibly, if the LibDem recovery continues, another couple.)
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