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  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dair said:

    @Dair, Financier.

    "Britain runs a massive trade deficit with the EU (but a surplus with the rest of the world)."

    http://www.cps.org.uk/publications/reports/britain-and-the-eu-a-solution/

    So the UK is competitive in the global market place.

    I can't work out if your being ironic or your head is too deep in the sand.

    You don't stop needing to buy the stuff you currently buy from Europe by leaving the EU. All you do is increase the price paid. A catastrophe for an economy already a second rate trading nation and destined to be destroyed by an EU exit.
    Many UK companies would like to be able to buy at world market rates.

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/abolish-the-cap-let-food-prices-tumble
    I very much doubt that leaving the EU make any substantive difference to the level of tariffs imposed on UK goods. And I very much doubt that we'd be more aggressive at cutting tariffs than the EU (through WTO negotiations) has been.

    As an aside, abolishing the CAP would clearly be a good thing. It's not the government's job to subsidise any particular industry, particularly when the consequences of that action increase the cost of food to consumers.
    The EU is essentially a protectionist barrier isn't it?

    Joining the EU redirected a lot of UK import business to EU members. Leaving the EU would strengthen the option of buying from non-EU members.

    As an aside, what goods do you think we would buy from outside the EU that we currently buy from inside the EU, other than food?
    I think all UK trade would skew to english speaking countries just as a matter of ease.

    Competition generally comes down to price & quality. Ease of communication is a factor in both of those.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Mortimer said:


    No, it wouldn't - you missed your once in a generation/lifetime chance. There are no constitutional obligations to maintain the current far too high level of spending in the Northern regions of GB. It would, however, result in some hilarious posts on PB and a even more provincial whinging on the 10pm news.

    Once SNP control all the Westminster seats they are neutralised as a threat - it may be the most counter productive definition of electoral success ever seen...

    You seem to be clutching at straws. The last time this happened - where a pro independence party controlled every seat in its purview, the UK broke apart. Of course this time it is full dissolution on the cards.

    Still, please, think as you will and make this happen. The sooner the better.
    Ah yes that would be the lot who signed up for partition, civil war and 70 years of poverty and emigration.

    The Irish majority never signed up for partition, etc. That was purely the choice of Westminster and history has shown what a ridiculously stupid choice that was. Ironically if the six counties had gone with the rest of Ireland the Cahtolicisation of the country would (probably) not have happened.
    Back in 1918, two of those Six Counties had Catholic majorities and a majority voted for either SF or IPP (that would be Fermanagh and Tyrone).

    Nowadays, four of the Six Counties have Catholic majorities, only Antrim and Down now have Protestant majorities.
    And yet the Union has never been safer.
    The three main parties still can't be arsed to stand for election there though!
    Conservatives are standing in 16 constituencies and UKIP in 10.

    It's mostly Labour who support sectarian politics.
    I corrected my post before seeing yours!
    It casts serious doubts on your ELBOW.
    ELBOW methodology has been consistent since its inception in August :)

    BTW, updating for last night's YG, part-ELBOW for the week so far gives a Lab lead of 0.7%!
    Understand the ELBOW methodology - it's pretty simple.

    However, it does have it's flaws! Have you thought about averaging out the daily YouGov?

    I personally like it and not because it's showing a Labour lead! ;)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Mortimer said:


    No, it wouldn't - you missed your once in a generation/lifetime chance. There are no constitutional obligations to maintain the current far too high level of spending in the Northern regions of GB. It would, however, result in some hilarious posts on PB and a even more provincial whinging on the 10pm news.

    Once SNP control all the Westminster seats they are neutralised as a threat - it may be the most counter productive definition of electoral success ever seen...

    You seem to be clutching at straws. The last time this happened - where a pro independence party controlled every seat in its purview, the UK broke apart. Of course this time it is full dissolution on the cards.

    Still, please, think as you will and make this happen. The sooner the better.
    Ah yes that would be the lot who signed up for partition, civil war and 70 years of poverty and emigration.

    The Irish majority never signed up for partition, etc. That was purely the choice of Westminster and history has shown what a ridiculously stupid choice that was. Ironically if the six counties had gone with the rest of Ireland the Cahtolicisation of the country would (probably) not have happened.
    Back in 1918, two of those Six Counties had Catholic majorities and a majority voted for either SF or IPP (that would be Fermanagh and Tyrone).

    Nowadays, four of the Six Counties have Catholic majorities, only Antrim and Down now have Protestant majorities.
    And yet the Union has never been safer.
    Aha now I understand it - the catholic position on contraception !

    How long is it before Sinn Fein have captured all of Northern Ireland, demographics must be on their side long term.
    The economics aren't.
    Doesn't seem constituency boundaries are either !
    Au contraire NI boundaries sort of reflect the vote 18 seats - 10 Unionists 8 Nationalists - circ 56/44 %

    Maybe if the english seats were less gerrymandered Cameron would be in with a chance to win.

    Oh the irony Ulster the epitome of representative politics !
    Actually on further inspection it seems it is the DUP that do extremeley well out of it all there, 44% of the seats for 25% of the vote !
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Mortimer said:


    No, it wouldn't - you missed your once in a generation/lifetime chance. There are no constitutional obligations to maintain the current far too high level of spending in the Northern regions of GB. It would, however, result in some hilarious posts on PB and a even more provincial whinging on the 10pm news.

    Once SNP control all the Westminster seats they are neutralised as a threat - it may be the most counter productive definition of electoral success ever seen...

    You seem to be clutching at straws. The last time this happened - where a pro independence party controlled every seat in its purview, the UK broke apart. Of course this time it is full dissolution on the cards.

    Still, please, think as you will and make this happen. The sooner the better.
    Ah yes that would be the lot who signed up for partition, civil war and 70 years of poverty and emigration.

    The Irish majority never signed up for partition, etc. That was purely the choice of Westminster and history has shown what a ridiculously stupid choice that was. Ironically if the six counties had gone with the rest of Ireland the Cahtolicisation of the country would (probably) not have happened.
    Back in 1918, two of those Six Counties had Catholic majorities and a majority voted for either SF or IPP (that would be Fermanagh and Tyrone).

    Nowadays, four of the Six Counties have Catholic majorities, only Antrim and Down now have Protestant majorities.
    And yet the Union has never been safer.
    Aha now I understand it - the catholic position on contraception !

    How long is it before Sinn Fein have captured all of Northern Ireland, demographics must be on their side long term.
    The economics aren't.
    Doesn't seem constituency boundaries are either !
    Au contraire NI boundaries sort of reflect the vote 18 seats - 10 Unionists 8 Nationalists - circ 56/44 %

    Maybe if the english seats were less gerrymandered Cameron would be in with a chance to win.

    Oh the irony Ulster the epitome of representative politics !
    Actually on further inspection it seems it is the DUP that do extremeley well out of it all there, 44% of the seats for 25% of the vote !
    It's more a question of the UUP doing badly. They're in total disarray.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655
    JEO said:


    I was speaking to a guy that owned an Import-Export company the other day, and he told me that the free market inside the EU was nowhere near as free as people often thought. He claimed that a lot of big companies use contract law to get round differential pricing, meaning arbitrage was not possible, and that the EU authorities turned a blind eye to big French and German players. I thought it was interesting, but not sure what the political solution is.

    I don't understand the allegation. Is he claiming that companies sell to different people at different prices across the EU?

    That's obviously true. Companies in the US sell at different prices in different parts of the US. Take industrial gasses: it's a market dominated by three players (Linde, Air Products, and Airgas). Given extracting oxygen or nitrogen and bottling it costs the same pretty much wherever you are in the US, you would expect prices would be pretty much the same.

    Yet someone in rural Texas will pay twice what someone in Chicago does. That's because - even though it's a single market - there are local monopolies/oligopolies.

    Companies - and people - are economically rational. They will charge what they can get away with charging. I don't know any business (which wishes to remain in business) charging a premium to someone just because they come from a different country.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Mortimer said:


    No, it wouldn't - you missed your once in a generation/lifetime chance. There are no constitutional obligations to maintain the current far too high level of spending in the Northern regions of GB. It would, however, result in some hilarious posts on PB and a even more provincial whinging on the 10pm news.

    Once SNP control all the Westminster seats they are neutralised as a threat - it may be the most counter productive definition of electoral success ever seen...

    You seem to be clutching at straws. The last time this happened - where a pro independence party controlled every seat in its purview, the UK broke apart. Of course this time it is full dissolution on the cards.

    Still, please, think as you will and make this happen. The sooner the better.
    Ah yes that would be the lot who signed up for partition, civil war and 70 years of poverty and emigration.

    The Irish majority never signed up for partition, etc. That was purely the choice of Westminster and history has shown what a ridiculously stupid choice that was. Ironically if the six counties had gone with the rest of Ireland the Cahtolicisation of the country would (probably) not have happened.
    Back in 1918, two of those Six Counties had Catholic majorities and a majority voted for either SF or IPP (that would be Fermanagh and Tyrone).

    Nowadays, four of the Six Counties have Catholic majorities, only Antrim and Down now have Protestant majorities.
    And yet the Union has never been safer.
    Aha now I understand it - the catholic position on contraception !

    How long is it before Sinn Fein have captured all of Northern Ireland, demographics must be on their side long term.
    The economics aren't.
    Doesn't seem constituency boundaries are either !
    Au contraire NI boundaries sort of reflect the vote 18 seats - 10 Unionists 8 Nationalists - circ 56/44 %

    Maybe if the english seats were less gerrymandered Cameron would be in with a chance to win.

    Oh the irony Ulster the epitome of representative politics !
    Actually on further inspection it seems it is the DUP that do extremeley well out of it all there, 44% of the seats for 25% of the vote !
    It's more a question of the UUP doing badly. They're in total disarray.
    Just had a look at 2005 Lagan Valley - Holy smokes !
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dair said:

    @Dair, Financier.

    "Britain runs a massive trade deficit with the EU (but a surplus with the rest of the world)."

    http://www.cps.org.uk/publications/reports/britain-and-the-eu-a-solution/

    So the UK is competitive in the global market place.

    I can't work out if your being ironic or your head is too deep in the sand.

    You don't stop needing to buy the stuff you currently buy from Europe by leaving the EU. All you do is increase the price paid. A catastrophe for an economy already a second rate trading nation and destined to be destroyed by an EU exit.
    Many UK companies would like to be able to buy at world market rates.

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/abolish-the-cap-let-food-prices-tumble
    I very much doubt that leaving the EU make any substantive difference to the level of tariffs imposed on UK goods. And I very much doubt that we'd be more aggressive at cutting tariffs than the EU (through WTO negotiations) has been.

    As an aside, abolishing the CAP would clearly be a good thing. It's not the government's job to subsidise any particular industry, particularly when the consequences of that action increase the cost of food to consumers.
    The EU is essentially a protectionist barrier isn't it?

    Joining the EU redirected a lot of UK import business to EU members. Leaving the EU would strengthen the option of buying from non-EU members.

    As an aside, what goods do you think we would buy from outside the EU that we currently buy from inside the EU, other than food?
    Battery technology is a major area where non-EU solutions are significantly cheaper and better, though I'm sure the likes of Nissan already buy from overseas.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    rcs1000 said:

    JEO said:


    I was speaking to a guy that owned an Import-Export company the other day, and he told me that the free market inside the EU was nowhere near as free as people often thought. He claimed that a lot of big companies use contract law to get round differential pricing, meaning arbitrage was not possible, and that the EU authorities turned a blind eye to big French and German players. I thought it was interesting, but not sure what the political solution is.

    I don't understand the allegation. Is he claiming that companies sell to different people at different prices across the EU?

    That's obviously true. Companies in the US sell at different prices in different parts of the US. Take industrial gasses: it's a market dominated by three players (Linde, Air Products, and Airgas). Given extracting oxygen or nitrogen and bottling it costs the same pretty much wherever you are in the US, you would expect prices would be pretty much the same.

    Yet someone in rural Texas will pay twice what someone in Chicago does. That's because - even though it's a single market - there are local monopolies/oligopolies.

    Companies - and people - are economically rational. They will charge what they can get away with charging. I don't know any business (which wishes to remain in business) charging a premium to someone just because they come from a different country.
    I didn't quite understand it either, to be honest, and I felt embarrassed showing my ignorance after I asked twice! I think it was something to do with contractual obligations on sales preventing resales at lower prices, but can't be completely sure. To be honest, I was bringing it up in the hope that someone else might provide more light to it!
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Isam: You still offering evens on UKIP seats over/under 4.5? I'd probably be up for £25 on that (me taking under).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dair said:

    @Dair, Financier.

    "Britain runs a massive trade deficit with the EU (but a surplus with the rest of the world)."

    http://www.cps.org.uk/publications/reports/britain-and-the-eu-a-solution/

    So the UK is competitive in the global market place.

    I can't work out if your being ironic or your head is too deep in the sand.

    You don't stop needing to buy the stuff you currently buy from Europe by leaving the EU. All you do is increase the price paid. A catastrophe for an economy already a second rate trading nation and destined to be destroyed by an EU exit.
    Many UK companies would like to be able to buy at world market rates.

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/abolish-the-cap-let-food-prices-tumble
    I very much doubt that leaving the EU make any substantive difference to the level of tariffs imposed on UK goods. And I very much doubt that we'd be more aggressive at cutting tariffs than the EU (through WTO negotiations) has been.

    As an aside, abolishing the CAP would clearly be a good thing. It's not the government's job to subsidise any particular industry, particularly when the consequences of that action increase the cost of food to consumers.
    The EU is essentially a protectionist barrier isn't it?

    Joining the EU redirected a lot of UK import business to EU members. Leaving the EU would strengthen the option of buying from non-EU members.

    As an aside, what goods do you think we would buy from outside the EU that we currently buy from inside the EU, other than food?
    Battery technology is a major area where non-EU solutions are significantly cheaper and better, though I'm sure the likes of Nissan already buy from overseas.
    I thought - although I could be wrong - that Lithium Ion batteries were already zero rated. It's why SAFT (Europe's largest battery maker) is building its new factory in Jacksonville, Florida.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Mortimer said:


    No, it wouldn't - you missed your once in a generation/lifetime chance. There are no constitutional obligations to maintain the current far too high level of spending in the Northern regions of GB. It would, however, result in some hilarious posts on PB and a even more provincial whinging on the 10pm news.

    Once SNP control all the Westminster seats they are neutralised as a threat - it may be the most counter productive definition of electoral success ever seen...

    You seem to be clutching at straws. The last time this happened - where a pro independence of poverty and emigration.

    The Irish majorit of the country would (probably) not have happened.
    Back in 1918, two of those Six Counties had Catholic majorities and a majority voted for either SF or IPP (that would be Fermanagh and Tyrone).

    Nowadays, four of the Six Counties have Catholic majorities, only Antrim and Down now have Protestant majorities.
    And yet the Union has never been safer.
    Aha now I understand it - the catholic position on contraception !

    How long is it before Sinn Fein have captured all of Northern Ireland, demographics must be on their side long term.
    The economics aren't.
    Doesn't seem constituency boundaries are either !
    Au contraire NI boundaries sort of reflect the vote 18 seats - 10 Unionists 8 Nationalists - circ 56/44 %

    Maybe if the english seats were less gerrymandered Cameron would be in with a chance to win.

    Oh the irony Ulster the epitome of representative politics !
    Actually on further inspection it seems it is the DUP that do extremeley well out of it all there, 44% of the seats for 25% of the vote !
    It's more a question of the UUP doing badly. They're in total disarray.
    Just had a look at 2005 Lagan Valley - Holy smokes !
    This was always a strong UUP seat until Donaldson switched parties. Jim Molyneaux was the previous MP.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    isam said:

    Guessing games without betting odds or money staked don't really interest me

    Anyone brave enough to be betting on this election outside of Scotland is a braver man than me....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Mortimer said:


    No, it wouldn't - you missed your once in a generation/lifetime chance. There are no constitutional obligations to maintain the current far too high level of spending in the Northern regions of GB. It would, however, result in some hilarious posts on PB and a even more provincial whinging on the 10pm news.

    Once SNP control all the Westminster seats they are neutralised as a threat - it may be the most counter productive definition of electoral success ever seen...

    You seem to be clutching at straws. The last time this happened - where a pro independence party controlled every seat in its purview, the UK broke apart. Of course this time it is full dissolution on the cards.

    Still, please, think as you will and make this happen. The sooner the better.
    Ah yes that would be the lot who signed up for partition, civil war and 70 years of poverty and emigration.

    The Irish majority never signed up for partition, etc. That was purely the choice of Westminster and history has shown what a ridiculously stupid choice that was. Ironically if the six counties had gone with the rest of Ireland the Cahtolicisation of the country would (probably) not have happened.
    Back in 1918, two of those Six Counties had Catholic majorities and a majority voted for either SF or IPP (that would be Fermanagh and Tyrone).

    Nowadays, four of the Six Counties have Catholic majorities, only Antrim and Down now have Protestant majorities.
    And yet the Union has never been safer.
    Aha now I understand it - the catholic position on contraception !

    How long is it before Sinn Fein have captured all of Northern Ireland, demographics must be on their side long term.
    The economics aren't.
    Doesn't seem constituency boundaries are either !
    Au contraire NI boundaries sort of reflect the vote 18 seats - 10 Unionists 8 Nationalists - circ 56/44 %

    Maybe if the english seats were less gerrymandered Cameron would be in with a chance to win.

    Oh the irony Ulster the epitome of representative politics !
    Actually isn't it 9 Unionists (inc. Lady Hermon), 8 Nationalists, and 1 Alliance?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Quincel said:

    Isam: You still offering evens on UKIP seats over/under 4.5? I'd probably be up for £25 on that (me taking under).

    Lol, I'm sure you can manage to get more than £25 down at odds-against over 3.5
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    edited April 2015
    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    murali_s said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Mortimer said:


    No, it wouldn't - you missed your once in a generation/lifetime chance. There are no constitutional obligations to maintain the current far too high level of spending in the Northern regions of GB. It would, however, result in some hilarious posts on PB and a even more provincial whinging on the 10pm news.

    Once SNP control all the Westminster seats they are neutralised as a threat - it may be the most counter productive definition of electoral success ever seen...

    You seem to be clutching at straws. The last time this happened - where a pro independence party controlled every seat in its purview, the UK broke apart. Of course this time it is full dissolution on the cards.

    Still, please, think as you will and make this happen. The sooner the better.
    Ah yes that would be the lot who signed up for partition, civil war and 70 years of poverty and emigration.

    Back in 1918, two of those Six Counties had Catholic majorities and a majority voted for either SF or IPP (that would be Fermanagh and Tyrone).

    Nowadays, four of the Six Counties have Catholic majorities, only Antrim and Down now have Protestant majorities.
    And yet the Union has never been safer.
    The three main parties still can't be arsed to stand for election there though!
    Conservatives are standing in 16 constituencies and UKIP in 10.

    It's mostly Labour who support sectarian politics.
    I corrected my post before seeing yours!
    It casts serious doubts on your ELBOW.
    ELBOW methodology has been consistent since its inception in August :)

    BTW, updating for last night's YG, part-ELBOW for the week so far gives a Lab lead of 0.7%!
    Understand the ELBOW methodology - it's pretty simple.

    However, it does have it's flaws! Have you thought about averaging out the daily YouGov?

    I personally like it and not because it's showing a Labour lead! ;)
    We always calculate the simple poll average alongside the ELBOW aggregate vote share. The simple average for this week shows a Tory lead of 0.3!

    Take your pick :)
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited April 2015
    JEO said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JEO said:


    I was speaking to a guy that owned an Import-Export company the other day, and he told me that the free market inside the EU was nowhere near as free as people often thought. He claimed that a lot of big companies use contract law to get round differential pricing, meaning arbitrage was not possible, and that the EU authorities turned a blind eye to big French and German players. I thought it was interesting, but not sure what the political solution is.

    I don't understand the allegation. Is he claiming that companies sell to different people at different prices across the EU?

    That's obviously true. Companies in the US sell at different prices in different parts of the US. Take industrial gasses: it's a market dominated by three players (Linde, Air Products, and Airgas). Given extracting oxygen or nitrogen and bottling it costs the same pretty much wherever you are in the US, you would expect prices would be pretty much the same.

    Yet someone in rural Texas will pay twice what someone in Chicago does. That's because - even though it's a single market - there are local monopolies/oligopolies.

    Companies - and people - are economically rational. They will charge what they can get away with charging. I don't know any business (which wishes to remain in business) charging a premium to someone just because they come from a different country.
    I didn't quite understand it either, to be honest, and I felt embarrassed showing my ignorance after I asked twice! I think it was something to do with contractual obligations on sales preventing resales at lower prices, but can't be completely sure. To be honest, I was bringing it up in the hope that someone else might provide more light to it!
    Prices for branded goods often vary from one country to another. Either because of strong local brands, local income levels, or a policy of dumping excess stock in particular national markets.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Quincel said:

    Isam: You still offering evens on UKIP seats over/under 4.5? I'd probably be up for £25 on that (me taking under).

    it was 4/5 not Evens but I will lay £25
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited April 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    98.0%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Down_(UK_Parliament_constituency) (1959)

    UUP George Currie 51,773 98.0
    Sinn Féin Joseph Campbell 1,039 2.0
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Sat in a cafe in central London - just overheard Nicola S described as 'dangerous'!

    Clegg has a strong argument on that - Salmond, Farage or Me.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32311736
    Yes but in no seat are the Liberals competing against UKIP and there is only one seat where they are competing with the SNP and have any sort of chance of winning.

    It's a redundant argument because it's a choice which is not on offer to almost every single voter.
    I think that he is asking the electorate to give him enough seats to hold the balance of power otherwise the SNP or UKIP might fulfil that role. OK, I know and you know that UKIP are unlikely to be in that position.
    It matters not that UKIP and the LibDems are not in contention in any particular constituency, what matters to him is that voters in the constituencies that he holds realise that they can do something to stop the SNP or UKIP being involved in government.
    I get this is what he is trying to say.

    I just don't think it stands up to basic arithmetic. All he can do is take seats off the Tories and maybe a few Labourites. Doesn't change the impact of the SNP.

    The only thing that could stop the SNP holding power (as things look today) would be for the Tories to wipe the Liberals out. Every other outcome points to Lab/SNP agreement regardless of Liberal performance.
    Basic arithmetic.
    If the LibDems hold most of their seats and the Tories most of theirs, then the existing coalition can continue (whether it would is another matter). There is some wiggle room where the Libdems could lose some and the Tories move up or down a bit with the same possibility.
    Labour losing seats to the SNP won't make much difference. LibDems losing to the SNP could make a difference depending on the numbers, but as I said earlier, Clegg's message (It's Salmond, Farage or Me) is to the electorate in his existing seats.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dair said:

    @Dair, Financier.

    "Britain runs a massive trade deficit with the EU (but a surplus with the rest of the world)."

    http://www.cps.org.uk/publications/reports/britain-and-the-eu-a-solution/

    So the UK is competitive in the global market place.

    I can't work out if your being ironic or your head is too deep in the sand.

    You don't stop needing to buy the stuff you currently buy from Europe by leaving the EU. All you do is increase the price paid. A catastrophe for an economy already a second rate trading nation and destined to be destroyed by an EU exit.
    Many UK companies would like to be able to buy at world market rates.

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/abolish-the-cap-let-food-prices-tumble
    I very much doubt that leaving the EU make any substantive difference to the level of tariffs imposed on UK goods. And I very much doubt that we'd be more aggressive at cutting tariffs than the EU (through WTO negotiations) has been.

    As an aside, abolishing the CAP would clearly be a good thing. It's not the government's job to subsidise any particular industry, particularly when the consequences of that action increase the cost of food to consumers.
    The EU is essentially a protectionist barrier isn't it?

    Joining the EU redirected a lot of UK import business to EU members. Leaving the EU would strengthen the option of buying from non-EU members.

    As an aside, what goods do you think we would buy from outside the EU that we currently buy from inside the EU, other than food?
    Battery technology is a major area where non-EU solutions are significantly cheaper and better, though I'm sure the likes of Nissan already buy from overseas.
    I thought - although I could be wrong - that Lithium Ion batteries were already zero rated. It's why SAFT (Europe's largest battery maker) is building its new factory in Jacksonville, Florida.
    Yes I think they are. The major area that needs reform is agriculture products.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Quincel said:

    Isam: You still offering evens on UKIP seats over/under 4.5? I'd probably be up for £25 on that (me taking under).

    Lol, I'm sure you can manage to get more than £25 down at odds-against over 3.5
    Must admit I haven't checked the bookies recently, just saw Isam's post about wanting predictions with odds etc below and jogged my memory.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    98.0%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Down_(UK_Parliament_constituency) (1959)

    UUP George Currie 51,773 98.0
    Sinn Féin Joseph Campbell 1,039 2.0
    He was a brave man, that Joseph Campbell - standing for Sinn Fein of all parties in North Down.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited April 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    But surprisingly the winner is a by-election, though the identity of the opposition might explain it!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleton_and_Prestwich_by-election,_1940

    Conservative Ernest Everard Gates 32,036 98.7
    British Union of Fascists F. Haslam 418 1.3
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    edited April 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    William Ross in Londonderry East got 93.9 in the same set of by-elections!

    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/bel.htm

    And John Taylor in Strangford got 94.2
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/bstr.htm
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited April 2015
    ydoethur said:

    (1) The Irish were fairly evenly divided on the subject, but the majority under Collins were in favour of partition as a temporary measure. THat's why there was a civil war started by the minority who were against it, under de Valera.

    A slight rewriting of history. The civil war was not fought over partition, as later Irish nationalists in the 1960s and 1970s liked to claim. Partition was assumed by the vast majority of both sides to be a temporary measure. The principal causes of the war were the oath of allegiance to the Crown and the constitution of the Irish Free State set out in the Anglo-Irish Treaty. As for partition, it is arguable it was inevitable from the Buckingham Palace Conference of summer 1914, where it was accepted that the Government of Ireland Act 1914 could not enter into force without special provision for Ulster.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    But surprisingly the winner is a by-election, though the identity of the opposition might explain it!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleton_and_Prestwich_by-election,_1940

    Conservative Ernest Everard Gates 32,036 98.7
    British Union of Fascists F. Haslam 418 1.3
    East Kerry 1885

    1885[edit]
    Jeremiah Daniel Sheehan was returned with a massive majority over his opponent, C H de G Robertson:
    Sheehan (Nationalist): 3069 (99.0%)
    Robertson (Conservative): 30 (1.0%)
    -Majority: 3039 (98.0%)
    This remains the largest majority by percentage of the vote in any UK Parliamentary election.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    But surprisingly the winner is a by-election, though the identity of the opposition might explain it!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleton_and_Prestwich_by-election,_1940

    Conservative Ernest Everard Gates 32,036 98.7
    British Union of Fascists F. Haslam 418 1.3
    East Kerry 1885

    1885[edit]
    Jeremiah Daniel Sheehan was returned with a massive majority over his opponent, C H de G Robertson:
    Sheehan (Nationalist): 3069 (99.0%)
    Robertson (Conservative): 30 (1.0%)
    -Majority: 3039 (98.0%)
    This remains the largest majority by percentage of the vote in any UK Parliamentary election.
    Yebbut before Universal Suffrage :)
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    98.0%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Down_(UK_Parliament_constituency) (1959)

    UUP George Currie 51,773 98.0
    Sinn Féin Joseph Campbell 1,039 2.0
    He was a brave man, that Joseph Campbell - standing for Sinn Fein of all parties in North Down.
    I went to school in Ballyholme and Bangor. In the primary school they split the classes for Religious Education. They asked me in my first week if I was a Catholic or Protestant and I didn't know, so they said you're probably a Protestant.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Are the SNP and Plaid Cymru manifestos to come shortly?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    It seems the Irish have a very clear idea of who they want to vote for and who they don't in general.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    98.0%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Down_(UK_Parliament_constituency) (1959)

    UUP George Currie 51,773 98.0
    Sinn Féin Joseph Campbell 1,039 2.0
    He was a brave man, that Joseph Campbell - standing for Sinn Fein of all parties in North Down.
    North Down doesn't require much courage, it's all bankers and accountants. North Antrim on the other hand.....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    William Ross in Londonderry East got 93.9 in the same set of by-elections!

    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/bel.htm

    And John Taylor in Strangford got 94.2
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/bstr.htm
    And Ian Paisley got 96.5 in North Antrim
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/bna.htm
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dair said:

    @Dair, Financier.

    "Britain runs a massive trade deficit with the EU (but a surplus with the rest of the world)."

    http://www.cps.org.uk/publications/reports/britain-and-the-eu-a-solution/

    So the UK is competitive in the global market place.

    I can't work out if your being ironic or your head is too deep in the sand.

    You don't stop needing to buy the stuff you currently buy from Europe by leaving the EU. All you do is increase the price paid. A catastrophe for an economy already a second rate trading nation and destined to be destroyed by an EU exit.
    Many UK companies would like to be able to buy at world market rates.

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/abolish-the-cap-let-food-prices-tumble
    I very much doubt that leaving the EU make any substantive difference to the level of tariffs imposed on UK goods. And I very much doubt that we'd be more aggressive at cutting tariffs than the EU (through WTO negotiations) has been.

    As an aside, abolishing the CAP would clearly be a good thing. It's not the government's job to subsidise any particular industry, particularly when the consequences of that action increase the cost of food to consumers.
    The EU is essentially a protectionist barrier isn't it?

    Joining the EU redirected a lot of UK import business to EU members. Leaving the EU would strengthen the option of buying from non-EU members.

    As an aside, what goods do you think we would buy from outside the EU that we currently buy from inside the EU, other than food?
    Battery technology is a major area where non-EU solutions are significantly cheaper and better, though I'm sure the likes of Nissan already buy from overseas.
    I thought - although I could be wrong - that Lithium Ion batteries were already zero rated. It's why SAFT (Europe's largest battery maker) is building its new factory in Jacksonville, Florida.
    Yes I think they are. The major area that needs reform is agriculture products.
    Absolutely agree. And it is no coincidence that when joining the EEC was first discussed/proposed, it was the impact on food prices that was considered its most serious negative impact.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    ydoethur said:

    (1) The Irish were fairly evenly divided on the subject, but the majority under Collins were in favour of partition as a temporary measure. THat's why there was a civil war started by the minority who were against it, under de Valera.

    A slight rewriting of history. The civil war was not fought over partition, as later Irish nationalists in the 1960s and 1970s liked to claim. Partition was assumed by the vast majority of both sides to be a temporary measure. The principal causes of the war were the oath of allegiance to the Crown and the constitution of the Irish Free State set out in the Anglo-Irish Treaty. As for partition, it is arguable it was inevitable from the Buckingham Palace Conference of summer 1914, where it was accepted that the Government of Ireland Act 1914 could not enter into force without special provision for Ulster.

    The constitution, including the partition, which was something they regarded as a betrayal (for the simple reason they knew it was unlikely to be resolved). The oath of allegiance was not an issue (certainly not as great an issue as is sometimes claimed) because in practice they were not forced to take it and in any case that was definitely admitted to be temporary.

    The slogan of the rebels after Collins moved the army into the west was 'Collins marches through Cork. Why not through Belfast?'
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    edited April 2015

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    98.0%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Down_(UK_Parliament_constituency) (1959)

    UUP George Currie 51,773 98.0
    Sinn Féin Joseph Campbell 1,039 2.0
    He was a brave man, that Joseph Campbell - standing for Sinn Fein of all parties in North Down.
    North Down doesn't require much courage, it's all bankers and accountants. North Antrim on the other hand.....
    Actually SF came third in North Antrim at GE 2010, and second at the 2011 Assembly election
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/ana.htm
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    But surprisingly the winner is a by-election, though the identity of the opposition might explain it!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleton_and_Prestwich_by-election,_1940

    Conservative Ernest Everard Gates 32,036 98.7
    British Union of Fascists F. Haslam 418 1.3
    East Kerry 1885

    1885[edit]
    Jeremiah Daniel Sheehan was returned with a massive majority over his opponent, C H de G Robertson:
    Sheehan (Nationalist): 3069 (99.0%)
    Robertson (Conservative): 30 (1.0%)
    -Majority: 3039 (98.0%)
    This remains the largest majority by percentage of the vote in any UK Parliamentary election.
    Presumably Nick Clegg will beat that this time around...
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Are the SNP and Plaid Cymru manifestos to come shortly?

    Plaid launched theirs first week of campaign

    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/general-election-2015-plaid-cymru-8952639
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    98.0%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Down_(UK_Parliament_constituency) (1959)

    UUP George Currie 51,773 98.0
    Sinn Féin Joseph Campbell 1,039 2.0
    He was a brave man, that Joseph Campbell - standing for Sinn Fein of all parties in North Down.
    North Down doesn't require much courage, it's all bankers and accountants. North Antrim on the other hand.....
    Actually SF came third in North Antrim at GE 2010, and second at the 2011 Assembly election
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/ana.htm
    North Antrim is Paisley country.

    Close to Scotland you see.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Anyone got a market up for how long it is before Miliband's corner throw the towel in during the debate ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Mr. 09, ah, cheers.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    But surprisingly the winner is a by-election, though the identity of the opposition might explain it!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleton_and_Prestwich_by-election,_1940

    Conservative Ernest Everard Gates 32,036 98.7
    British Union of Fascists F. Haslam 418 1.3
    East Kerry 1885

    1885[edit]
    Jeremiah Daniel Sheehan was returned with a massive majority over his opponent, C H de G Robertson:
    Sheehan (Nationalist): 3069 (99.0%)
    Robertson (Conservative): 30 (1.0%)
    -Majority: 3039 (98.0%)
    This remains the largest majority by percentage of the vote in any UK Parliamentary election.
    Presumably Nick Clegg will beat that this time around...
    According to some posters on here, the SNP will easily top this in constituencies right across Scotland on 7th May.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,949
    isam said:

    isam said:


    FPT Re Reckless and Carswell campaigning in their constituencies

    Sean_F said:

    "Is there any need? The consensus here seems to be that the Conservatives are strolling to victory in each seat."
    As it was before both by elections

    The consensus on here will not tolerate anyone advising the Tories might not win., or are a bad value bet.

    Richard Nabavi, a good guy that I have met and like, and I think, unusually for Tories on this site (Tissue price & Casino Royale excepted), knows his stuff betting wise, wrote a lengthy analysis on why the Tories would win Rochester by election, with the conclusion that they would win by between 3-10% I think. The praise lavished on him for this analysis was fulsome... he had said what they wanted to hear

    I disagreed, said Reckless would win easily, and was ridiculed

    Reckless won easily. People talked about something else
    I was about one and half points too optimistic (on the Tory side) in the contest for the winning margin for Reckless.

    That made me a helluva lot closer than most of the Kippers.

    I am saying the Kippers will poll nine point something in the General. On that basis Reckless is not an MP (and neither is anyone except Carswell).

    My entry in the pb.com election game was for one Kipper MP. Seeing nothing to change my mind on that.
    Guessing games without betting odds or money staked don't really interest me

    Just because I choose not to bet with YOU doesn't mean I choose not to bet....
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dair said:

    @Dair, Financier.

    "Britain runs a massive trade deficit with the EU (but a surplus with the rest of the world)."

    http://www.cps.org.uk/publications/reports/britain-and-the-eu-a-solution/

    So the UK is competitive in the global market place.

    I can't work out if your being ironic or your head is too deep in the sand.

    You don't stop needing to buy the stuff you currently buy from Europe by leaving the EU. All you do is increase the price paid. A catastrophe for an economy already a second rate trading nation and destined to be destroyed by an EU exit.
    Many UK companies would like to be able to buy at world market rates.

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/abolish-the-cap-let-food-prices-tumble
    I very much doubt that leaving the EU make any substantive difference to the level of tariffs imposed on UK goods. And I very much doubt that we'd be more aggressive at cutting tariffs than the EU (through WTO negotiations) has been.

    As an aside, abolishing the CAP would clearly be a good thing. It's not the government's job to subsidise any particular industry, particularly when the consequences of that action increase the cost of food to consumers.
    The EU is essentially a protectionist barrier isn't it?

    Joining the EU redirected a lot of UK import business to EU members. Leaving the EU would strengthen the option of buying from non-EU members.

    As an aside, what goods do you think we would buy from outside the EU that we currently buy from inside the EU, other than food?
    Battery technology is a major area where non-EU solutions are significantly cheaper and better, though I'm sure the likes of Nissan already buy from overseas.
    I thought - although I could be wrong - that Lithium Ion batteries were already zero rated. It's why SAFT (Europe's largest battery maker) is building its new factory in Jacksonville, Florida.
    Yes I think they are. The major area that needs reform is agriculture products.
    Absolutely agree. And it is no coincidence that when joining the EEC was first discussed/proposed, it was the impact on food prices that was considered its most serious negative impact.
    At the time. Now we also have over-regulation.

    Beyond economics there is the question of democratic accountability of government policy.
  • Głosuję UKIP tak wszyscy Litwini będą odsyłane
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    98.0%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Down_(UK_Parliament_constituency) (1959)

    UUP George Currie 51,773 98.0
    Sinn Féin Joseph Campbell 1,039 2.0
    He was a brave man, that Joseph Campbell - standing for Sinn Fein of all parties in North Down.
    North Down doesn't require much courage, it's all bankers and accountants. North Antrim on the other hand.....
    Actually SF came third in North Antrim at GE 2010, and second at the 2011 Assembly election
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/ana.htm
    North Antrim is Paisley country.

    Close to Scotland you see.
    28% Catholic in North Antrim
    only 13% Catholic in North Down

    North Antrim contains the tiny Moyle Council area which is 60% majority Catholic (almost like Little Ireland beyond Ulster).
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    98.0%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Down_(UK_Parliament_constituency) (1959)

    UUP George Currie 51,773 98.0
    Sinn Féin Joseph Campbell 1,039 2.0
    He was a brave man, that Joseph Campbell - standing for Sinn Fein of all parties in North Down.
    North Down doesn't require much courage, it's all bankers and accountants. North Antrim on the other hand.....
    Actually SF came third in North Antrim at GE 2010, and second at the 2011 Assembly election
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/ana.htm
    North Antrim is Paisley country.

    Close to Scotland you see.
    28% Catholic in North Antrim
    only 13% Catholic in North Down

    North Antrim contains the tiny Moyle Council area which is 60% majority Catholic (almost like Little Ireland beyond Ulster).
    Moyle council has been abolished under new council arrangements, it's merged with its neighbour.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    But surprisingly the winner is a by-election, though the identity of the opposition might explain it!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleton_and_Prestwich_by-election,_1940

    Conservative Ernest Everard Gates 32,036 98.7
    British Union of Fascists F. Haslam 418 1.3
    East Kerry 1885

    1885[edit]
    Jeremiah Daniel Sheehan was returned with a massive majority over his opponent, C H de G Robertson:
    Sheehan (Nationalist): 3069 (99.0%)
    Robertson (Conservative): 30 (1.0%)
    -Majority: 3039 (98.0%)
    This remains the largest majority by percentage of the vote in any UK Parliamentary election.
    Presumably Nick Clegg will beat that this time around...
    According to some posters on here, the SNP will easily top this in constituencies right across Scotland on 7th May.
    I certainly hope they don't, it would indicate a terrible efficiency of vote !
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    98.0%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Down_(UK_Parliament_constituency) (1959)

    UUP George Currie 51,773 98.0
    Sinn Féin Joseph Campbell 1,039 2.0
    He was a brave man, that Joseph Campbell - standing for Sinn Fein of all parties in North Down.
    North Down doesn't require much courage, it's all bankers and accountants. North Antrim on the other hand.....
    Actually SF came third in North Antrim at GE 2010, and second at the 2011 Assembly election
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/ana.htm
    North Antrim is Paisley country.

    Close to Scotland you see.
    28% Catholic in North Antrim
    only 13% Catholic in North Down

    North Antrim contains the tiny Moyle Council area which is 60% majority Catholic (almost like Little Ireland beyond Ulster).
    My other half is originally from North Antrim. He's one of fourteen brothers and sisters. His extended family must make up an appreciable percentage of the electorate.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    Głosuję UKIP tak wszyscy Litwini będą odsyłane

    Zdrada jałtańska!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Miss Plato, the name rings a bell... are they the chaps who invaded Egypt with chariots?

    [Which turned out handily for the Egyptians, as the daft sods hadn't a clue what the wheel was before that point].

    Presumably, if that's right, they'll've come from the east (relative to Egypt), so I'd guess there might be some crossover with the Assyrians/Medes.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    An ancient Indo-European people who settled in Turkey/Syria?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    The current top forecast vote share from the modellers is Hanretty "Na h-Eileanan an Iar" with the SNP on 84%.

    I'd take unders here if offered.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    98.0%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Down_(UK_Parliament_constituency) (1959)

    UUP George Currie 51,773 98.0
    Sinn Féin Joseph Campbell 1,039 2.0
    He was a brave man, that Joseph Campbell - standing for Sinn Fein of all parties in North Down.
    North Down doesn't require much courage, it's all bankers and accountants. North Antrim on the other hand.....
    Actually SF came third in North Antrim at GE 2010, and second at the 2011 Assembly election
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/ana.htm
    North Antrim is Paisley country.

    Close to Scotland you see.
    28% Catholic in North Antrim
    only 13% Catholic in North Down

    North Antrim contains the tiny Moyle Council area which is 60% majority Catholic (almost like Little Ireland beyond Ulster).
    Moyle council has been abolished under new council arrangements, it's merged with its neighbour.
    Ah, seems to have finally been implemented, read it was delayed from 2011.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,949
    Has Farage disowned the 2015 UKIP Manifesto yet?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,500
    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    Mrs J is very fascinated by the Hittites, and her favourite necklace includes a Hittite symbol (the same as in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites )
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2015
    The lost 4th Great Kingdom along with the Assyrians, Egyptians, Babylonians... and lost until they were rediscovered in about 1905.

    Their great city was built in c1285BC - in Turkey - Anatolia region

    Miss Plato, the name rings a bell... are they the chaps who invaded Egypt with chariots?

    [Which turned out handily for the Egyptians, as the daft sods hadn't a clue what the wheel was before that point].

    Presumably, if that's right, they'll've come from the east (relative to Egypt), so I'd guess there might be some crossover with the Assyrians/Medes.

  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dair said:

    @Dair, Financier.

    "Britain runs a massive trade deficit with the EU (but a surplus with the rest of the world)."

    http://www.cps.org.uk/publications/reports/britain-and-the-eu-a-solution/

    So the UK is competitive in the global market place.

    I can't work out if your being ironic or your head is too deep in the sand.

    You don't stop needing to buy the stuff you currently buy from Europe by leaving the EU. All you do is increase the price paid. A catastrophe for an economy already a second rate trading nation and destined to be destroyed by an EU exit.
    Many UK companies would like to be able to buy at world market rates.

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/abolish-the-cap-let-food-prices-tumble
    I very much doubt that leaving the EU make any substantive difference to the level of tariffs imposed on UK goods. And I very much doubt that we'd be more aggressive at cutting tariffs than the EU (through WTO negotiations) has been.

    As an aside, abolishing the CAP would clearly be a good thing. It's not the government's job to subsidise any particular industry, particularly when the consequences of that action increase the cost of food to consumers.
    The EU is essentially a protectionist barrier isn't it?

    Joining the EU redirected a lot of UK import business to EU members. Leaving the EU would strengthen the option of buying from non-EU members.

    As an aside, what goods do you think we would buy from outside the EU that we currently buy from inside the EU, other than food?
    Have you had an answer to that yet?
    Presumably Farage thinks the Germans would quail at our threat to buy Chinese built MGs instead of BMWs. Most Japanese cars are built in Europe (ie the UK). The fact that Hyundai builds six models at their factory in the Czech Republic tells us where most of auto manufacturing would end up if we left the EU.
    We get our tat from China as it is.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Miss Plato, just clicked Mr. Jessop's link, and it seems they did exist around the same time as the Assyrians.

    I'd guess, judging from the map, that much of their legacy is being destroyed by the rabid dogs of ISIS.

    Slightly curious about the Great Kingdom definition.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That the Hittite language wasn't Middle Eastern but Indo-European took me by surprise. And written in cuneiform!

    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    Mrs J is very fascinated by the Hittites, and her favourite necklace includes a Hittite symbol (the same as in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites )
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Has Farage disowned the 2015 UKIP Manifesto yet?

    Interesting that SNP, PC and GREEN leaders ('the coven') have ganged up on Farage for his HIV comments.

    Can we expect a massive fight on this on Thursday, with Ed in the middle?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Has Farage disowned the 2015 UKIP Manifesto yet?

    Are Tor Bay councillors all up for re-election this year?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    But surprisingly the winner is a by-election, though the identity of the opposition might explain it!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleton_and_Prestwich_by-election,_1940

    Conservative Ernest Everard Gates 32,036 98.7
    British Union of Fascists F. Haslam 418 1.3
    East Kerry 1885

    1885[edit]
    Jeremiah Daniel Sheehan was returned with a massive majority over his opponent, C H de G Robertson:
    Sheehan (Nationalist): 3069 (99.0%)
    Robertson (Conservative): 30 (1.0%)
    -Majority: 3039 (98.0%)
    This remains the largest majority by percentage of the vote in any UK Parliamentary election.
    Presumably Nick Clegg will beat that this time around...
    According to some posters on here, the SNP will easily top this in constituencies right across Scotland on 7th May.
    I certainly hope they don't, it would indicate a terrible efficiency of vote !
    The SNP will get close to 100% of Scottish votes:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCk42HdWgAAx68h.jpg
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    It seems the Irish have a very clear idea of who they want to vote for and who they don't in general.

    Scotland heading the same way - the Romanist-Nationalist party on course for 45+ MPs.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    If it's still on iPlayer - Lost Cities of the Ancients episode 3.

    Miss Plato, just clicked Mr. Jessop's link, and it seems they did exist around the same time as the Assyrians.

    I'd guess, judging from the map, that much of their legacy is being destroyed by the rabid dogs of ISIS.

    Slightly curious about the Great Kingdom definition.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Plato said:

    That the Hittite language wasn't Middle Eastern but Indo-European took me by surprise. And written in cuneiform!

    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    Mrs J is very fascinated by the Hittites, and her favourite necklace includes a Hittite symbol (the same as in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites )
    Glasgow was a welsh kingdom.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Brom said:
    Crikey I hope the good voters of Brentford and Isleworth don't pay too much attention. On Labour at 1-3 here ;)
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    rcs1000 said:

    JEO said:


    I was speaking to a guy that owned an Import-Export company the other day, and he told me that the free market inside the EU was nowhere near as free as people often thought. He claimed that a lot of big companies use contract law to get round differential pricing, meaning arbitrage was not possible, and that the EU authorities turned a blind eye to big French and German players. I thought it was interesting, but not sure what the political solution is.

    I don't understand the allegation. Is he claiming that companies sell to different people at different prices across the EU?

    That's obviously true. Companies in the US sell at different prices in different parts of the US. Take industrial gasses: it's a market dominated by three players (Linde, Air Products, and Airgas). Given extracting oxygen or nitrogen and bottling it costs the same pretty much wherever you are in the US, you would expect prices would be pretty much the same.

    Yet someone in rural Texas will pay twice what someone in Chicago does. That's because - even though it's a single market - there are local monopolies/oligopolies.

    Companies - and people - are economically rational. They will charge what they can get away with charging. I don't know any business (which wishes to remain in business) charging a premium to someone just because they come from a different country.
    There's an interesting podcast on Blood from Radiolabs that has a section on the market in donated blood that might interest you.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2015
    They were very keen on chariots and seemed to have the same code of ethics as N Korea and ISIS. Brutal ultra soldiers with the building skills of the Romans.

    Apparently they marched 1000 miles to Babylon, destroyed it and marched back - then they went for Egypt under Ramasees.

    Miss Plato, just clicked Mr. Jessop's link, and it seems they did exist around the same time as the Assyrians.

    I'd guess, judging from the map, that much of their legacy is being destroyed by the rabid dogs of ISIS.

    Slightly curious about the Great Kingdom definition.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    Plato said:

    That the Hittite language wasn't Middle Eastern but Indo-European took me by surprise. And written in cuneiform!

    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    Mrs J is very fascinated by the Hittites, and her favourite necklace includes a Hittite symbol (the same as in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites )
    Glasgow was a welsh kingdom.

    Edinburgh was Anglo-Saxon
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    edited April 2015
    Miss Plato, you might be interested in the Greek art prog (part 2/3 is on BBC4 tonight at 9pm, I think), by the same chap who did the Roman one.

    I think I saw one or two lost cities, but it didn't grab me (saw one in Egypt). Likewise, I lost interest in the South American kingdoms programme. The Lost Kingdoms of Africa was more interesting.

    Edited extra bit: not on iPlayer now, but I imagine it'll be repeated. Lots of Lost Cities/Kingdoms stuff up there.
  • Głosuję UKIP tak wszyscy Litwini będą odsyłane

    Zdrada jałtańska!
    Jadąc tutaj, biorąc brytyjskie miejsca pracy ... wysłać je wszystkie z powrotem
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I'm an ancient sites nut and seen all the amazing ones in Turkey [bar this one] and Egypt, and India.

    I really fancy Jordan and Greece but there's so many to choose from. Troy was very basic - the oddest was Necropolis, literally a city of the dead in Turkey.

    Miss Plato, you might be interested in the Greek art prog (part 2/3 is on BBC4 tonight at 9pm, I think), by the same chap who did the Roman one.

    I think I saw one or two lost cities, but it didn't grab me (saw one in Egypt). Likewise, I lost interest in the South American kingdoms programme. The Lost Kingdoms of Africa was more interesting.

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Pulpstar said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Lagan Valley by-election, 1986
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    UUP Jim Molyneaux 32,514 90.7 +31.5

    Has 90.7% of the vote ever been topped in a contested election ?

    Also 52.7% of the total electorate - a mandate above DNV/the field must be rare indeed :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_by-elections,_1986

    Not exactly contested elections.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    rcs1000 said:

    JEO said:


    I was speaking to a guy that owned an Import-Export company the other day, and he told me that the free market inside the EU was nowhere near as free as people often thought. He claimed that a lot of big companies use contract law to get round differential pricing, meaning arbitrage was not possible, and that the EU authorities turned a blind eye to big French and German players. I thought it was interesting, but not sure what the political solution is.

    I don't understand the allegation. Is he claiming that companies sell to different people at different prices across the EU?

    That's obviously true. Companies in the US sell at different prices in different parts of the US. Take industrial gasses: it's a market dominated by three players (Linde, Air Products, and Airgas). Given extracting oxygen or nitrogen and bottling it costs the same pretty much wherever you are in the US, you would expect prices would be pretty much the same.

    Yet someone in rural Texas will pay twice what someone in Chicago does. That's because - even though it's a single market - there are local monopolies/oligopolies.

    Companies - and people - are economically rational. They will charge what they can get away with charging. I don't know any business (which wishes to remain in business) charging a premium to someone just because they come from a different country.
    Those firms make OPEC look like a competitive bunch.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    If you can access Travel Channel - there's loads of light and interesting historical monument shows on there. And others re museum secrets. I could watch them all day.

    Miss Plato, you might be interested in the Greek art prog (part 2/3 is on BBC4 tonight at 9pm, I think), by the same chap who did the Roman one.

    I think I saw one or two lost cities, but it didn't grab me (saw one in Egypt). Likewise, I lost interest in the South American kingdoms programme. The Lost Kingdoms of Africa was more interesting.

    Edited extra bit: not on iPlayer now, but I imagine it'll be repeated. Lots of Lost Cities/Kingdoms stuff up there.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Plato said:

    That the Hittite language wasn't Middle Eastern but Indo-European took me by surprise. And written in cuneiform!

    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    Mrs J is very fascinated by the Hittites, and her favourite necklace includes a Hittite symbol (the same as in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites )
    Glasgow was a welsh kingdom.

    Edinburgh was Anglo-Saxon
    I was looking at a map of Anglo Saxon migration the other day.

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Britain.Anglo.Saxon.homelands.settlements.400.500.jpg

    Odd that the UK was allied against Germany in WW1. Within the EU you can see a north-european/germanic alliance.




  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    rcs1000 said:

    @Another_Dave,

    Bilateral trade balances are never particularly useful in themselves. If country (a) produces 1m cars, but no steel, and country (b) produces steel but no cars, and country (c) produces wheat for all then all countries can have zero net trade balances, but country (a) can have a massive imbalance with country (b), as it imports the steel for 1m cars, but only exports - say - 500k cars back.

    I think you have to look at the whole picture - which is that we run a trade deficit, as we have done for the majority of the period since 1945 - and ask why?

    Firstly, we - as a country -have substantial overseas investments, and these pay us money in the form of interest payments and dividends. This income then gets spent on imports. Countries with substantial income from overseas - which is particularly the UK and the US - tend to run trade deficits.

    Secondly, we have been a haven for foreign capital. As money has come in to buy up property, and the like, that creates excess liquidity sloshing around the UK. Liquidity that ends up in imports.

    Finally, outside of automotive where we are third in Europe, and some service industries, we don't actually make that much "stuff". If you look at manufactured products per person you get the following statistics:

    Germany	 7,634 
    Japan 7,547
    US 5,950
    Netherlands 4,863
    Italy 4,247
    Canada 4,111
    UK 3,692
    France 3,500
    Spain 2,997
    At 10% of GDP, we have the lowest share of manufacturing of any major industrialised country.
    But we do continue to make more manufactured goods than ever before. I know some people do not like that but it is true.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/277158/ep2-government-policy-since-1945.pdf
    ''Today, Britain produces more manufactured goods in absolute terms than ever before.
    Against that, manufacturing output relative to GDP has fallen for around 40 years, to a
    third of previous levels.''

    We have other parts to our economy which have grown over the years, eg financial services.
    Our overseas investments bring money in. When the world is in a downturn they bring in less profit. When we are doing well the inward investment takes out more if both happen at the same time our balance of payments suffer, but it is an indication of us doing well.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    edited April 2015
    Miss Plato, I'm not much of a traveller, but the Great Wall was intriguing to see. Some of the steps (which are ruinously tall in places) have grooves almost a foot deep worn into them.

    Edited extra bit: I should probably watch less TV, not more. Ought to try and be more productive.
  • I remember watching Predator 2 which featured a Jamaican gang leader who referred to the police as "the Babylon".

    What would gang leaders in Babylon have called the police?
  • Plato said:

    That the Hittite language wasn't Middle Eastern but Indo-European took me by surprise. And written in cuneiform!

    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    Mrs J is very fascinated by the Hittites, and her favourite necklace includes a Hittite symbol (the same as in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites )
    Glasgow was a welsh kingdom.

    Edinburgh was Anglo-Saxon
    I was looking at a map of Anglo Saxon migration the other day.

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Britain.Anglo.Saxon.homelands.settlements.400.500.jpg

    Odd that the UK was allied against Germany in WW1. Within the EU you can see a north-european/germanic alliance.




    A lot of Germans felt the same way. They were shocked that "England" could align themselves with Russia and France against Germany.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    taffys said:

    Has Farage disowned the 2015 UKIP Manifesto yet?

    Interesting that SNP, PC and GREEN leaders ('the coven') have ganged up on Farage for his HIV comments.

    Can we expect a massive fight on this on Thursday, with Ed in the middle?

    I imagine they'll all be ganging up on the PM, given he won't be there. His right to buy announcement yesterday was perfectly timed for giving the Lefties something to get their teeth stuck into.

    Anyway, it seems to have unravelled now and been widely given the big thumbs down. And to add to the mess, it's given his opponents something to beat him up about that they didn't have up their sleeves 2 days ago.

    You can say one thing about Dave, he sure knows how to not fight election campaigns.

    If there was a dimly lit flickering hope of salvation on May 7th, I think the ill-conceived RTB extension policy has just extinguished it.

    DC has not just opened the door to No 10 to EdM, he's ushered him right in there.

    Game over.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    I remember watching Predator 2 which featured a Jamaican gang leader who referred to the police as "the Babylon".

    What would gang leaders in Babylon have called the police?

    Boss?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Mr. Sykes, for a Conservative you do seem to enjoy damning your own party.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Pulpstar said:

    The current top forecast vote share from the modellers is Hanretty "Na h-Eileanan an Iar" with the SNP on 84%.

    I'd take unders here if offered.

    Excluding Buckingham, my tops is East Ham @ 73.6%
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711

    Plato said:

    That the Hittite language wasn't Middle Eastern but Indo-European took me by surprise. And written in cuneiform!

    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    Mrs J is very fascinated by the Hittites, and her favourite necklace includes a Hittite symbol (the same as in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites )
    Glasgow was a welsh kingdom.

    Edinburgh was Anglo-Saxon
    I was looking at a map of Anglo Saxon migration the other day.

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Britain.Anglo.Saxon.homelands.settlements.400.500.jpg

    Odd that the UK was allied against Germany in WW1. Within the EU you can see a north-european/germanic alliance.




    A lot of Germans felt the same way. They were shocked that "England" could align themselves with Russia and France against Germany.
    Since time immemorial - well, since we gave up trying to conquer France - the primary UK foreign policy consideration has been to avoid any one power dominating the continent. Whoever it is.

    Spanish, Dutch, French, French, French, German, German, Russian.. And now the EU.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Plato said:

    That the Hittite language wasn't Middle Eastern but Indo-European took me by surprise. And written in cuneiform!

    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    Mrs J is very fascinated by the Hittites, and her favourite necklace includes a Hittite symbol (the same as in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites )
    Glasgow was a welsh kingdom.
    Edinburgh was Anglo-Saxon
    I was looking at a map of Anglo Saxon migration the other day.
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Britain.Anglo.Saxon.homelands.settlements.400.500.jpg

    Odd that the UK was allied against Germany in WW1. Within the EU you can see a north-european/germanic alliance.
    Why do you think that German military occupation/hegemony over Europe and the occupation of the Channel coast would have been in British interests? Why do you think that the declared German Weltpolitik would have been in British interests?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2015

    taffys said:

    Has Farage disowned the 2015 UKIP Manifesto yet?

    Interesting that SNP, PC and GREEN leaders ('the coven') have ganged up on Farage for his HIV comments.

    Can we expect a massive fight on this on Thursday, with Ed in the middle?

    I imagine they'll all be ganging up on the PM, given he won't be there. His right to buy announcement yesterday was perfectly timed for giving the Lefties something to get their teeth stuck into.

    Anyway, it seems to have unravelled now and been widely given the big thumbs down. And to add to the mess, it's given his opponents something to beat him up about that they didn't have up their sleeves 2 days ago.

    You can say one thing about Dave, he sure knows how to not fight election campaigns.

    If there was a dimly lit flickering hope of salvation on May 7th, I think the ill-conceived RTB extension policy has just extinguished it.

    DC has not just opened the door to No 10 to EdM, he's ushered him right in there.

    Game over.
    Because you're an impartial and positive judge of the PM. Remind me when you last sang his praises?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,949
    Plato said:

    I'm an ancient sites nut and seen all the amazing ones in Turkey [bar this one] and Egypt, and India.

    I really fancy Jordan and Greece but there's so many to choose from. Troy was very basic - the oddest was Necropolis, literally a city of the dead in Turkey.

    Miss Plato, you might be interested in the Greek art prog (part 2/3 is on BBC4 tonight at 9pm, I think), by the same chap who did the Roman one.

    I think I saw one or two lost cities, but it didn't grab me (saw one in Egypt). Likewise, I lost interest in the South American kingdoms programme. The Lost Kingdoms of Africa was more interesting.

    So not seen Petra? Ooh, that's an omission....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    Plato said:

    That the Hittite language wasn't Middle Eastern but Indo-European took me by surprise. And written in cuneiform!

    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    Mrs J is very fascinated by the Hittites, and her favourite necklace includes a Hittite symbol (the same as in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites )
    Glasgow was a welsh kingdom.

    Edinburgh was Anglo-Saxon
    I was looking at a map of Anglo Saxon migration the other day.

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Britain.Anglo.Saxon.homelands.settlements.400.500.jpg

    Odd that the UK was allied against Germany in WW1. Within the EU you can see a north-european/germanic alliance.

    A lot of Germans felt the same way. They were shocked that "England" could align themselves with Russia and France against Germany.
    And then in WW2, Germany invaded Germanic Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands, as well as Belgium and Luxembourg (the latter two majority Germanic by language).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Southam Observer and Bob Sykes xD
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    My bucket list has 32 countries on it to go!

    Plato said:

    I'm an ancient sites nut and seen all the amazing ones in Turkey [bar this one] and Egypt, and India.

    I really fancy Jordan and Greece but there's so many to choose from. Troy was very basic - the oddest was Necropolis, literally a city of the dead in Turkey.

    Miss Plato, you might be interested in the Greek art prog (part 2/3 is on BBC4 tonight at 9pm, I think), by the same chap who did the Roman one.

    I think I saw one or two lost cities, but it didn't grab me (saw one in Egypt). Likewise, I lost interest in the South American kingdoms programme. The Lost Kingdoms of Africa was more interesting.

    So not seen Petra? Ooh, that's an omission....
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672

    Plato said:

    That the Hittite language wasn't Middle Eastern but Indo-European took me by surprise. And written in cuneiform!

    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    Mrs J is very fascinated by the Hittites, and her favourite necklace includes a Hittite symbol (the same as in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites )
    Glasgow was a welsh kingdom.

    Edinburgh was Anglo-Saxon
    I was looking at a map of Anglo Saxon migration the other day.

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Britain.Anglo.Saxon.homelands.settlements.400.500.jpg

    Odd that the UK was allied against Germany in WW1. Within the EU you can see a north-european/germanic alliance.

    A few years back Eddie Izzard did a great TV piece in which he went to Friesland and spoke to a Frisian farmer: Izzard in Old English, the farmer in Frisian. They managed two speak to each other pretty intelligibly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeC1yAaWG34

  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Plato said:

    That the Hittite language wasn't Middle Eastern but Indo-European took me by surprise. And written in cuneiform!

    Plato said:

    OT @Morris_Dancer just been watching a fascinating prog about Hittites. Do you know much about them?

    Mrs J is very fascinated by the Hittites, and her favourite necklace includes a Hittite symbol (the same as in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites )
    Glasgow was a welsh kingdom.

    Edinburgh was Anglo-Saxon
    I was looking at a map of Anglo Saxon migration the other day.

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Britain.Anglo.Saxon.homelands.settlements.400.500.jpg

    Odd that the UK was allied against Germany in WW1. Within the EU you can see a north-european/germanic alliance.

    A lot of Germans felt the same way. They were shocked that "England" could align themselves with Russia and France against Germany.
    Since time immemorial - well, since we gave up trying to conquer France - the primary UK foreign policy consideration has been to avoid any one power dominating the continent. Whoever it is.

    Spanish, Dutch, French, French, French, German, German, Russian.. And now the EU.
    Correct in a nutshell. Add in control of the English Channel. HMS Warrior was the 'ultimate deterrent' of her day. She simply patrolled up and down the channel.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,500
    Plato said:

    I'm an ancient sites nut and seen all the amazing ones in Turkey [bar this one] and Egypt, and India.

    I really fancy Jordan and Greece but there's so many to choose from. Troy was very basic - the oddest was Necropolis, literally a city of the dead in Turkey.

    Miss Plato, you might be interested in the Greek art prog (part 2/3 is on BBC4 tonight at 9pm, I think), by the same chap who did the Roman one.

    I think I saw one or two lost cities, but it didn't grab me (saw one in Egypt). Likewise, I lost interest in the South American kingdoms programme. The Lost Kingdoms of Africa was more interesting.

    Apparently Turkey do not have the same attitude that we have towards their architectural heritage. Which is a shame, as they have so much of it.

    Mrs J's family come from Tarsus, (birthplace of St Paul), and as a child her mum would dig in the garden and find Roman coins. This was not seen as anything particularly noteworthy.

    Her uncle would also take her fishing with explosives, but that is a different story ...
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