Mr. Antifrank, you appear to be saying the fact there's a story is a story in itself.
That in turn points to how the SNP should be handling it. The line should be: "everyone in the room has confirmed the memo was inaccurate. It's always dangerous to take secondhand reports as gospel. We're happy to set the record straight."
Not: "BURN THE INFIDELS".
One of your MPs has demanded the journalist's resignation for reporting this story. And the SNP is not a race.
A religion, possibly.
Journalists should be sacked when they knowingly print blatant lies.
Mr. Antifrank, you appear to be saying the fact there's a story is a story in itself.
That in turn points to how the SNP should be handling it. The line should be: "everyone in the room has confirmed the memo was inaccurate. It's always dangerous to take secondhand reports as gospel. We're happy to set the record straight."
Not: "BURN THE INFIDELS".
Making things up is a bit silly even for you. They have very clearly stated it is a lie , asked why the patsy journalist did not bother to check his facts etc and asked them to print the truth. You take that and manage to make it into some bizarre pathetic racist " BURN THE INFIDELS" , amazing.
One of your MPs has demanded the journalist's resignation for reporting this story. And the SNP is not a race.
A religion, possibly.
Once again, the memo was a story all by itself. I'm sure you both realise this. If it had been a secondhand report in an official French memo that David Cameron sought Scottish independence, you wouldn't be doubting this.
The Telegraph had a perfecto good story to print, though they certainly sexed it up beyond what the memo justified.
The story is whether the memo is real , if so why did the civil servant lie on it and why did the journalist ask everyone but the victim about it and have it printed knowing it was fabricated lies. We had several similar ones during the referendum that never got followed up. I do not expect we will see this investigated properly or the instigators brought to book. Lots of dog whistles mind you.
At this point it does become interesting. If the memo is fictional, then it's a very different matter.
Doesn't have to be a Foreign Office memo. Of course if the DT has claimed it is a FO memo then. Well I don't know what happens next but something would happen.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
Does the memo exist outside the imagination of the DT?
Have the Civil Service produced the original document? I'm slightly surprised why not - even if it was leaked in the first place.
Should this memo exist, and be produced then presumably you will be retracting your ranting, since a journalist is completely entitled to take an official minute at face value, if it subsequently turns out to be inaccurate that is hardly the journalists fault. If it says what it is purported to say presumably you will beg his forgiveness for branding him a liar.
LOL, and you have the cheek to admonish me for conspiracy, you must b ea government lackey used to making up these kind of things. Whatever happened to journalists verifying their stories , oh I forgot when you know you are printing blatant lies it is not wise to check up on them. Look over there a squirrel.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
Does the memo exist outside the imagination of the DT?
Have the Civil Service produced the original document? I'm slightly surprised why not - even if it was leaked in the first place.
The way it looks to me:
SLAB supporting Scottish civil servant misrepresents conversation to London. Lab supporting FCO civil servant seizes on internal memo and leaks it to unionist newspaper. Just my opinion though, obviously no evidence, but I could see it happen that way.
Once again, the memo was a story all by itself. I'm sure you both realise this. If it had been a secondhand report in an official French memo that David Cameron sought Scottish independence, you wouldn't be doubting this.
The Telegraph had a perfecto good story to print, though they certainly sexed it up beyond what the memo justified.
The reporter did not do BASIC fact checking. The memo is merely a piece of paper of dubious provenance till fact checked.
All he needed to do was telephone the French Consul. Clearly he is accessible to journalists as a number were able to get a quote from him quite quickly after the story broke. And he says the memo is incorrect.
This is why journalism requires fact checking. Failure to do such a fundamental part of the job would appear to me to be gross incompetence. That's grounds for dismissal.
Oh don't write bollocks. Unless you are suggesting that the memo is a fabricated document, you have to accept that it is a record of what the British government understood to be Nicola Sturgeon's privately expressed preference. That is a story all in itself. The document is the story.
And of course it is now being denied by all present. No one present has any interest in doing otherwise.
The brittle hysteria that SNP supporters show whenever anything mildly awkward to their cause crops up does them no credit at all. A more confident party would simply waft this story away.
I think you are perhaps overlooking the fact that the media is broadly anti-SNP and pro-Union so there is nowhere else to debate such things - if it did not happen on the net where would it happen?
And the toxicity of the Tories in Scotland.
Of course the reaction is strong - those last few percentage points of potnetoal Labour to SNP switchers in the most nonlinear part of the votes vs seats curve.
Once again, the memo was a story all by itself. I'm sure you both realise this. If it had been a secondhand report in an official French memo that David Cameron sought Scottish independence, you wouldn't be doubting this.
The Telegraph had a perfecto good story to print, though they certainly sexed it up beyond what the memo justified.
The reporter did not do BASIC fact checking. The memo is merely a piece of paper of dubious provenance till fact checked.
All he needed to do was telephone the French Consul. Clearly he is accessible to journalists as a number were able to get a quote from him quite quickly after the story broke. And he says the memo is incorrect.
This is why journalism requires fact checking. Failure to do such a fundamental part of the job would appear to me to be gross incompetence. That's grounds for dismissal.
Oh don't write bollocks. Unless you are suggesting that the memo is a fabricated document, you have to accept that it is a record of what the British government understood to be Nicola Sturgeon's privately expressed preference. That is a story all in itself. The document is the story.
And of course it is now being denied by all present. No one present has any interest in doing otherwise.
The brittle hysteria that SNP supporters show whenever anything mildly awkward to their cause crops up does them no credit at all. A more confident party would simply waft this story away.
It is quite clear to me and I am no lover of the SNP , that the whole " memo " / story is a complete fabrication designed to fool the gullible such as yourself .
I think Mr Herdson neglects the polling on the views of England on an SNP-propped up government...
It's not aimed at potential Labour voters. It's aimed at potential UKIP voters. And so far it's been far more effective than I expected.
Don't understand that at all, and what on earth is your metric for effectiveness on potential kippers?
There is a cohort of voters who aren't warm on the current Conservative leadership who have been thinking about voting for UKIP. This group responds particularly virulently to the idea of Scotland being given more money. The idea of a Labour/SNP alliance fills them with loathing.
Anecdotally I have had several such voters raise this spontaneously with me. And in the polls UKIP recently have been drifting down a bit while the Conservatives have been climbing a bit. Correlation does not equal causation, I accept.
You're correct. Among my friends and acquaintances are plenty who dislike Cameron, would happily vote UKIP in secondary elections, but will vote Conservative to keep out Labour/SNP.
Yep! Agree with the anecdotal data that while Cameron is maybe not brilliant, the alternative is a throwback to the 1970's and could well end up with us heading to the IMF again.
The national debt has doubled during this parliament.
The national debt has doubled during this parliament.
Given the state of the economy and the size of the deficit in 2010 an impressive result.
Anyone who posts about the national debt having doubled should be made to provide detail of exactly which departments they would have closed and which taxes they would have raised to eliminate the deficit in 1 year
Indeed - lots of left-wingers seem determined to attack Cameron from the right on this one, saying how he failed to eliminate the deficit.
Would they rather he had cut more? (to which the answer is possibly, but only so they could differentiate themselves more from him than they can do now).
Should this memo exist, and be produced then presumably you will be retracting your ranting, since a journalist is completely entitled to take an official minute at face value, if it subsequently turns out to be inaccurate that is hardly the journalists fault. If it says what it is purported to say presumably you will beg his forgiveness for branding him a liar.
No he is NOT entitled to take it at face value.
He is required to FACT CHECK it. In this case, contact the French Consul and ask if it is true. The French Consul would then debunk the document and the story dies. That's the whole point of fact checking and why it is fundamental to journalism.
These are not "optional" parts of the process. The reliance and dedication to fact checking is the last bastion of print journalism in its attempts to stave off the less reliable (as it is not always fact checked) online and citizen journalism destroying the industry.
If the papers cannot even offer that, they cannot offer anything.
Really ? Can you hear yourself ?
He isn't required to do any such thing.
He may even have tried and been told to go away, you don't know.
So long as its not libellous, and much as you would love it to be, it isn't, he can write any old bollocks he wants that his publisher will publish. How much fact checking do you think the Daily Sport does ?
None which is why the Daily Sport had the reputation it had. The Telegraph wants a different reputation. One where it is a reliable Newspaper of Record. The ONLY way to maintain such a reputation is through a journalistic process of meticulous fact checking.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Had my first doorknock of the election from a party today. Had a nice chat with a man from Plaid about the Barnett formula and we both agreed that it should be reformed. Discussed the Leaders debate as well. Didn't agree on much else and not going to vote for them but wished him well in the campaign and told him I hope they get a bit closer to Labour in my constituency, Coming from the Rhondda (Me too, Leanne!) I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.
DennisBets The SNP have made clear they will vote down a Tory government
I am aware of this! I do not believe a word of it, they are power hungry nationalists hell bent on implementing policies their own people already voted against. Anyone not agreeing with SNP in Scotland is being alienated by the popularist expectations to vote SNP or be seen as some sort of Lord of the Manor traitor who should go and live in Downton Abbey.
Normal working class people will tire of this and see a SLAB vote as a route back from an isolationalist dictatorship
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
Does the memo exist outside the imagination of the DT?
Have the Civil Service produced the original document? I'm slightly surprised why not - even if it was leaked in the first place.
The way it looks to me:
SLAB supporting Scottish civil servant misrepresents conversation to London. Lab supporting FCO civil servant seizes on internal memo and leaks it to unionist newspaper. Just my opinion though, obviously no evidence, but I could see it happen that way.
You are missing a good few Tories there
I don't know of any Tories that want Labour to do well in Scotland. I think Dave and the Tory leadership are quite comfortable with the SNP sweeping the board in Scotland because they know it damages Labour and makes Labour's path to 326 virtually impossible, while also allowing them to play up the Ed in Nicola's pocket angle. It would be counter productive for the Tories to leak or fabricate a memo like this. The union has been won, the fight now is over home rule for Scotland and EV4EL in England, it will be a union in name only, but that is good enough for the Tories AIUI.
Once again, the memo was a story all by itself. I'm sure you both realise this. If it had been a secondhand report in an official French memo that David Cameron sought Scottish independence, you wouldn't be doubting this.
The Telegraph had a perfecto good story to print, though they certainly sexed it up beyond what the memo justified.
The reporter did not do BASIC fact checking. The memo is merely a piece of paper of dubious provenance till fact checked.
All he needed to do was telephone the French Consul. Clearly he is accessible to journalists as a number were able to get a quote from him quite quickly after the story broke. And he says the memo is incorrect.
This is why journalism requires fact checking. Failure to do such a fundamental part of the job would appear to me to be gross incompetence. That's grounds for dismissal.
Oh don't write bollocks. Unless you are suggesting that the memo is a fabricated document, you have to accept that it is a record of what the British government understood to be Nicola Sturgeon's privately expressed preference. That is a story all in itself. The document is the story.
And of course it is now being denied by all present. No one present has any interest in doing otherwise.
The brittle hysteria that SNP supporters show whenever anything mildly awkward to their cause crops up does them no credit at all. A more confident party would simply waft this story away.
It is clear it is fabricated by the UK government , both participants have publicly stated that they did not discuss or say what was implied. We will see if the Tories investigate the person who wrote the lies and who gave those lies to the journalist.
He may even have tried and been told to go away, you don't know.
So long as its not libellous, and much as you would love it to be, it isn't, he can write any old bollocks he wants that his publisher will publish. How much fact checking do you think the Daily Sport does ?
None which is why the Daily Sport had the reputation it had. The Telegraph wants a different reputation. One where it is a reliable Newspaper of Record. The ONLY way to maintain such a reputation is through a journalistic process of meticulous fact checking.
I think we might be getting closer to the issue now. The Daily Clickbait has recently lost most of its quality journalists in a massive clear out of talent, most of which seems to have moved to Buzzfeed or Breitbart. Most of its bloggers got the boot a few months ago.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
I too think there is definitely a kernel of truth in it to be honest. The Scots Labour party will try and big this story up, but it will be the almost hysterical denials and over reaction from the SNP supporters camp which will end up fuelling this storm in a teacup for even longer in the media.
I also suspect Sturgeon would have preferred Salmond to quietly leave Holyrood and retire from day to day politics rather than heading off back to Westminster playing the uncontrollable maverick in the SNP pack. And as she no doubt realises, Salmond and his ego were never going to be able to head off back to anonymity on the Westminster backbenchers, any more than he would have done at Holyrood after serving as FM.
At the end of the day, Sturgeon is facing her big election next year at Holyrood, she needs to match or do better than Salmond did in 2011 to call it a personal success as FM. So Sturgeon will prefer a Conservative Government at Westminster as it helped the SNP win that majority back in 2011. But Salmond would definitely prefer a minority Labour Government, hence his threats to write a Labour budget or try to vote down a minority Conservative Government, just so he can to replace it with a minority Labour Government with him acting as a high profile power broker. And that is where tensions might be created between Sturgeon and Salmond as their own political interests now look to be going in very different directions from when they originally worked together at Holyrood.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Only daft Tories could ever imagine that Sturgeon would be silly enough to discuss this with a French Diplomat whilst being recorded by a UK lackey. We are not talking clowns like Dave here we are talking about real clever people.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 3m3 minutes ago Nicola #Sturgeon calls for inquiry into the leaked memo in which she allegedly told an ambassador she secretly supported David Cameron as PM
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
This leak does no benefit to the Conservative party. I can't understand why that is so hard to understand. The Tories are doing all they can to talk up the SNP and hope they win as many seats off Labour as possible. You may not like that fact, you may think it is foolish of them but it is unquestionably what they want.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Perhaps because some smell the hand of Grant Shapps in this .
Once again, the memo was a story all by itself. I'm sure you both realise this. If it had been a secondhand report in an official French memo that David Cameron sought Scottish independence, you wouldn't be doubting this.
The Telegraph had a perfecto good story to print, though they certainly sexed it up beyond what the memo justified.
The reporter did not do BASIC fact checking. The memo is merely a piece of paper of dubious provenance till fact checked.
All he needed to do was telephone the French Consul. Clearly he is accessible to journalists as a number were able to get a quote from him quite quickly after the story broke. And he says the memo is incorrect.
This is why journalism requires fact checking. Failure to do such a fundamental part of the job would appear to me to be gross incompetence. That's grounds for dismissal.
Oh don't write bollocks. Unless you are suggesting that the memo is a fabricated document, you have to accept that it is a record of what the British government understood to be Nicola Sturgeon's privately expressed preference. That is a story all in itself. The document is the story.
And of course it is now being denied by all present. No one present has any interest in doing otherwise.
The brittle hysteria that SNP supporters show whenever anything mildly awkward to their cause crops up does them no credit at all. A more confident party would simply waft this story away.
It is clear it is fabricated by the UK government , both participants have publicly stated that they did not discuss or say what was implied. We will see if the Tories investigate the person who wrote the lies and who gave those lies to the journalist.
Because it couldn't possibly be fabricated by a Scottish civil servant in Holyrood that didn't support the SNP ?
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
Does the memo exist outside the imagination of the DT?
Have the Civil Service produced the original document? I'm slightly surprised why not - even if it was leaked in the first place.
will beg his forgiveness for branding him a liar.
But you are right - the wording was unfortunate and I wasn't specifically intending to suggest that the DT or any particular journalist was lying (for one thing, the document may turn ip as you say, or someone else was doing the fibbing). .
He is complicit by not checking the veracity of the supposed document. He either knew it was dodgy or he is a crap journalist.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Perhaps because some smell the hand of Grant Shapps in this .
What? Why would a Tory want to help SLAB? Are you clueless?
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Perhaps because some smell the hand of Grant Shapps in this .
An even bigger reason for the Tories not to investigate (although as MaxPB points out, it fails the cui bono test). It is sounding like it is the Telegraph that needs to stand up the story.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Perhaps because some smell the hand of Grant Shapps in this .
What? Why would a Tory want to help SLAB? Are you clueless?
The way the story is going it seems to be helping the SNP not SLAB .
The memo is an account of a conversation with the French Counsel General. The French Counsel General denies it. The UK official who wrote it didn't even believe it. Only James Mathew of Sky is left giving this nonsence any credence as he suggests not because it is true but because it is a story! .
Therefore in summary this will help the NATS just like the attacks on Salmond of two weeks ago helped the NATS.
It keeps them front and centre of the campaign and everything else that is thrown at them will be part of the establishment dirty tricks narrative
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 3m3 minutes ago Nicola #Sturgeon calls for inquiry into the leaked memo in which she allegedly told an ambassador she secretly supported David Cameron as PM
Nicola has just put her career on the line. If it turns out that she's lying, she's finished.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Perhaps because some smell the hand of Grant Shapps in this .
I agree it looks like a planted story, but the Conservatives (1 Scottish MP) are not competing with the SNP in this election. The 'hand' will most likely belong to Labour (41 Scottish MPs), or the LDs (11 Scottish MPs).
Both Labour and LD spokesmen were quoted in the original article.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
I'm not sure that this will actually make much difference now. Last night when it broke it seemed bigger, but this morning it seems like a dud. The full quote is basically nothing and even the civil servant who took down the notes doesn't believe it and it sounds like the Scottish government mandarin misrepresented the conversation to London.
Hence my original comment. The danger for the SNP is not this memo but their own wildly OTT reaction to the story.
You mean your irrational reaction to what you make up about their reaction. Just admit you are talking merde and move on.
Wanting the journalist sacked is absurd.
Not if he is making up stories and knowingly using false documents, using lies etc as it would appear. Either the document, his report or both look suspect given that both parties who had the conversation said it was untrue.
One thing there is no doubt about . This is that such a memo exists ! I have not read or heard that it is a fake.
It maybe that both the French Ambassador and Nicola Sturgeon can deny them [ the French obviously will as they do not want to be seen as involving themselves in the election in another country ].
Remember the memo was written in the Foreign office based on a telephone conversation. The two participants were themselves not involved in the memo - so easy for them to deny. The writer of the memo or even the person who telephoned - neither of whom were present presumably.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Perhaps because some smell the hand of Grant Shapps in this .
Shapps does not have that access. It would appear to have come via/from the Scottish Office of the UK Govt. This is a story that advantages two parties. Scottish Labour and Scottish Lib Dems. The Scottish Labour have past access to civil servants in London and Edinburgh. The Liberal Democrats run the Scottish Office. It is either SLAB or SLDs.
The memo is an account of a conversation with the French Counsel General. The French Counsel General denies it. The UK official who wrote it didn't even believe it. Only James Mathew of Sky is left giving this nonsence any credence as he suggests not because it is true but because it is a story! .
Therefore in summary this will help the NATS just like the attacks on Salmond of two weeks ago helped the NATS.
It keeps them front and centre of the campaign and everything else that is thrown at them will be part of the establishment dirty tricks narrative
One thing there is no doubt about . This is that such a memo exists ! I have not read or heard that it is a fake.
It maybe that both the French Ambassador and Nicola Sturgeon can deny them [ the French obviously will as they do not want to be seen as involving themselves in the election in another country ].
Remember the memo was written in the Foreign office based on a telephone conversation. The two participants were themselves not involved in the memo - so easy for them to deny. The writer of the memo or even the person who telephoned - neither of whom were present presumably.
Foreign office say they have no record of the memo.
At this point it does become interesting. If the memo is fictional, then it's a very different matter.
Doesn't have to be a Foreign Office memo. Of course if the DT has claimed it is a FO memo then. Well I don't know what happens next but something would happen.
We will get a clue when we see how diligently they look into it. BBC claim it is a real memo, so you can be sure it will be fake.
Mr. Antifrank, you appear to be saying the fact there's a story is a story in itself.
That in turn points to how the SNP should be handling it. The line should be: "everyone in the room has confirmed the memo was inaccurate. It's always dangerous to take secondhand reports as gospel. We're happy to set the record straight."
Not: "BURN THE INFIDELS".
Making things up is a bit silly even for you. They have very clearly stated it is a lie , asked why the patsy journalist did not bother to check his facts etc and asked them to print the truth. You take that and manage to make it into some bizarre pathetic racist " BURN THE INFIDELS" , amazing.
One of your MPs has demanded the journalist's resignation for reporting this story. And the SNP is not a race.
A religion, possibly.
Once again, the memo was a story all by itself. I'm sure you both realise this. If it had been a secondhand report in an official French memo that David Cameron sought Scottish independence, you wouldn't be doubting this.
The Telegraph had a perfecto good story to print, though they certainly sexed it up beyond what the memo justified.
The story is whether the memo is real , if so why did the civil servant lie on it and why did the journalist ask everyone but the victim about it and have it printed knowing it was fabricated lies. We had several similar ones during the referendum that never got followed up. I do not expect we will see this investigated properly or the instigators brought to book. Lots of dog whistles mind you.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
I'm not sure that this will actually make much difference now. Last night when it broke it seemed bigger, but this morning it seems like a dud. The full quote is basically nothing and even the civil servant who took down the notes doesn't believe it and it sounds like the Scottish government mandarin misrepresented the conversation to London.
Hence my original comment. The danger for the SNP is not this memo but their own wildly OTT reaction to the story.
You mean your irrational reaction to what you make up about their reaction. Just admit you are talking merde and move on.
Wanting the journalist sacked is absurd.
Not if he is making up stories and knowingly using false documents, using lies etc as it would appear. Either the document, his report or both look suspect given that both parties who had the conversation said it was untrue.
More question begging. You have no reason to suspect he knew the document was false. You don't even know if the document is false. You are going to have massive amounts of egg on your face if the document turns up, and appears genuine. Its entirely possible that a SLAB sympathisers in Holyrood wrote official minutes that misrepresented the meeting. Its also entirely possible the document is correct in every respect and that embarrassed people are denying it. Some evidence would be nice in place of all this ranting and hyperbole.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Perhaps because some smell the hand of Grant Shapps in this .
What? Why would a Tory want to help SLAB? Are you clueless?
The way the story is going it seems to be helping the SNP not SLAB .
Well that would be an astonishing double bluff by the Tories. The UK establishment seeks to 'damage' the SNP but only reinforces their seige mentality. Not even sure Lynton Crosby would come up with that.
MaxPB Salmond has made clear he would vote down a Tory government on a vote of confidence, a deal on EVEL and devomax would therefore not get a chance, though given Labour could well win most seats in England the Tories should not get too confident over EVEL anyway
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Perhaps because some smell the hand of Grant Shapps in this .
What? Why would a Tory want to help SLAB? Are you clueless?
A large 50+ SNP block will have to worry any future minority government. A couple of dozen SNP seats would concern a tory minority government far less.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Perhaps because some smell the hand of Grant Shapps in this .
What? Why would a Tory want to help SLAB? Are you clueless?
The way the story is going it seems to be helping the SNP not SLAB .
Clearly that wasn't the intention of the leak. The intention was to make Dave and Nicola look like BFFs and the SNP look like Tory stooges taking instructions from Westminster. That it looks to have backfired was not the intention of the leaker.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 3m3 minutes ago Nicola #Sturgeon calls for inquiry into the leaked memo in which she allegedly told an ambassador she secretly supported David Cameron as PM
Nicola has just put her career on the line. If it turns out that she's lying, she's finished.
Don't be stupid Monica, this is about the only time you can tell a politician is telling the truth, when they deny it that strongly in plain words you can be sure it is the truth. If it was not she would have had 15 minutes of weasely words and went round about the houses. The French have already publicly said it was false.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 3m3 minutes ago Nicola #Sturgeon calls for inquiry into the leaked memo in which she allegedly told an ambassador she secretly supported David Cameron as PM
Is Nicola now describing it as "Leaked" rather than "Fabricated"?
The conversation between her and the French Ambassador obviously happened - they did meet - the question is exactly what was said and by whom. If the DT stand by their story then someone needs to provide a documented alternative minute of the meeting.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
I'm not sure that this will actually make much difference now. Last night when it broke it seemed bigger, but this morning it seems like a dud. The full quote is basically nothing and even the civil servant who took down the notes doesn't believe it and it sounds like the Scottish government mandarin misrepresented the conversation to London.
Hence my original comment. The danger for the SNP is not this memo but their own wildly OTT reaction to the story.
You mean your irrational reaction to what you make up about their reaction. Just admit you are talking merde and move on.
Wanting the journalist sacked is absurd.
Not if he is making up stories and knowingly using false documents, using lies etc as it would appear. Either the document, his report or both look suspect given that both parties who had the conversation said it was untrue.
I admire your Scottish sense of fair play, of course if a politician and a French diplomat deny something then it must be untrue
Once again, the memo was a story all by itself. I'm sure you both realise this. If it had been a secondhand report in an official French memo that David Cameron sought Scottish independence, you wouldn't be doubting this.
The Telegraph had a perfecto good story to print, though they certainly sexed it up beyond what the memo justified.
The reporter did not do BASIC fact checking. The memo is merely a piece of paper of dubious provenance till fact checked.
All he needed to do was telephone the French Consul. Clearly he is accessible to journalists as a number were able to get a quote from him quite quickly after the story broke. And he says the memo is incorrect.
This is why journalism requires fact checking. Failure to do such a fundamental part of the job would appear to me to be gross incompetence. That's grounds for dismissal.
Oh don't write bollocks. Unless you are suggesting that the memo is a fabricated document, you have to accept that it is a record of what the British government understood to be Nicola Sturgeon's privately expressed preference. That is a story all in itself. The document is the story.
And of course it is now being denied by all present. No one present has any interest in doing otherwise.
The brittle hysteria that SNP supporters show whenever anything mildly awkward to their cause crops up does them no credit at all. A more confident party would simply waft this story away.
It is clear it is fabricated by the UK government , both participants have publicly stated that they did not discuss or say what was implied. We will see if the Tories investigate the person who wrote the lies and who gave those lies to the journalist.
Because it couldn't possibly be fabricated by a Scottish civil servant in Holyrood that didn't support the SNP ?
Scottish Office UK civil servant you mean perhaps. I do agree my statement is a bit dodgy , but in essence it will be a UK Lib Dem/Tory involved even if in Scottish Office.
MaxPB Salmond has made clear he would vote down a Tory government on a vote of confidence, a deal on EVEL and devomax would therefore not get a chance, though given Labour could well win most seats in England the Tories should not get too confident over EVEL anyway
The latest polls show Labour well behind in England, nowhere near most seats.
Salmond can say what he likes before the election. If the Tories are the largest party in England and the SNP the largest party in Scotland a deal will be done for Scots home rule and EV4EL. Both parties want to shaft Labour and political reality will trump the mutual hatred.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 3m3 minutes ago Nicola #Sturgeon calls for inquiry into the leaked memo in which she allegedly told an ambassador she secretly supported David Cameron as PM
Nicola has just put her career on the line. If it turns out that she's lying, she's finished.
Don't be stupid Monica, this is about the only time you can tell a politician is telling the truth, when they deny it that strongly in plain words you can be sure it is the truth. If it was not she would have had 15 minutes of weasely words and went round about the houses. The French have already publicly said it was false.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 3m3 minutes ago Nicola #Sturgeon calls for inquiry into the leaked memo in which she allegedly told an ambassador she secretly supported David Cameron as PM
Nicola has just put her career on the line. If it turns out that she's lying, she's finished.
Don't be stupid Monica, this is about the only time you can tell a politician is telling the truth, when they deny it that strongly in plain words you can be sure it is the truth. If it was not she would have had 15 minutes of weasely words and went round about the houses. The French have already publicly said it was false.
Reading between the lines of the memo, Nicola was rather tired and emotional after a long day. Perhaps she doesn't fully recall the night's conversations.
He may even have tried and been told to go away, you don't know.
So long as its not libellous, and much as you would love it to be, it isn't, he can write any old bollocks he wants that his publisher will publish. How much fact checking do you think the Daily Sport does ?
None which is why the Daily Sport had the reputation it had. The Telegraph wants a different reputation. One where it is a reliable Newspaper of Record. The ONLY way to maintain such a reputation is through a journalistic process of meticulous fact checking.
I think we might be getting closer to the issue now. The Daily Clickbait has recently lost most of its quality journalists in a massive clear out of talent, most of which seems to have moved to Buzzfeed or Breitbart. Most of its bloggers got the boot a few months ago.
Indeed proper Fact Checked Journalism is more expensive, more labour intensive and slower. But it's also the basic claim that the dead tree media make for being more reliable.
If this turns out to be the hoax that it currently looks to be, this could do significant long term damage to the Telegraph. They're facing a huge IPSO sanction, potentially crippling litigation and a massive loss of reputaiton, all because they didn't make one phone call.
4 April 2015 at 12:18pm Sturgeon calls for inquiry into leaked memo about alleged PM comments SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has told Sky News she is calling for an enquiry into a leaked memo that alleged she expressed a preference to see David Cameron as prime minister after the general election over Ed Miliband. Ms Sturgeon has "categorically" denied making the comments during a meeting with a French diplomat in February. Last updated Sat 4 Apr 2015
FWIW if I was able to bet, I think this frenchgate fiasco is the result of SLABs dirty tricks department. 1. SLAB have much better access to the Telegraph and to the civil servants. 2. McTiernan worked for the Telegraph and works for Jim Murphy. 3. SLAB have most to gain from this. 4. Labour had many politicised civil servants. McBride being one big example of the species.
Mr. Antifrank, you appear to be saying the fact there's a story is a story in itself.
That in turn points to how the SNP should be handling it. The line should be: "everyone in the room has confirmed the memo was inaccurate. It's always dangerous to take secondhand reports as gospel. We're happy to set the record straight."
Not: "BURN THE INFIDELS".
One of your MPs has demanded the journalist's resignation for reporting this story. And the SNP is not a race.
A religion, possibly.
Journalists should be sacked when they knowingly print blatant lies.
Mr. Antifrank, you appear to be saying the fact there's a story is a story in itself.
Not: "BURN THE INFIDELS".
Making things up is a bit silly even for you. They have very clearly stated it is a lie , asked why the patsy journalist did not bother to check his facts etc and asked them to print the truth. You take that and manage to make it into some bizarre pathetic racist " BURN THE INFIDELS" , amazing.
One of your MPs has demanded the journalist's resignation for reporting this story. And the SNP is not a race.
A religion, possibly.
Once again, the memo was a story all by itself. I'm sure you both realise this. If it had been a secondhand report in an official French memo that David Cameron sought Scottish independence, you wouldn't be doubting this.
The Telegraph had a perfecto good story to print, though they certainly sexed it up beyond what the memo justified.
The story is whether the memo is real , if so why did the civil servant lie on it and why did the journalist ask everyone but the victim about it and have it printed knowing it was fabricated lies. We had several similar ones during the referendum that never got followed up. I do not expect we will see this investigated properly or the instigators brought to book. Lots of dog whistles mind you.
Why do you think the civil servant "lied" ? The French are in no position to embarrass the FM - the last thing they want is for the story to fester. They are embarrassed as it is that such a confidential discussion leaked out. Nicola will deny it, of course. Just like she said Barroso lied !
I have no doubt the memo is genuine and the writer believed what he wrote.
Mr. Antifrank, you appear to be saying the fact there's a story is a story in itself.
That in turn points to how the SNP should be handling it. The line should be: "everyone in the room has confirmed the memo was inaccurate. It's always dangerous to take secondhand reports as gospel. We're happy to set the record straight."
Not: "BURN THE INFIDELS".
Making things up is a bit silly even for you. They have very clearly stated it is a lie , asked why the patsy journalist did not bother to check his facts etc and asked them to print the truth. You take that and manage to make it into some bizarre pathetic racist " BURN THE INFIDELS" , amazing.
One of your MPs has demanded the journalist's resignation for reporting this story. And the SNP is not a race.
A religion, possibly.
Once again, the memo was a story all by itself. I'm sure you both realise this. If it had been a secondhand report in an official French memo that David Cameron sought Scottish independence, you wouldn't be doubting this.
The Telegraph had a perfecto good story to print, though they certainly sexed it up beyond what the memo justified.
The story is whether the memo is real , if so why did the civil servant lie on it and why did the journalist ask everyone but the victim about it and have it printed knowing it was fabricated lies. We had several similar ones during the referendum that never got followed up. I do not expect we will see this investigated properly or the instigators brought to book. Lots of dog whistles mind you.
Yes merde lies like that, nothing the Tories will not stoop to.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 3m3 minutes ago Nicola #Sturgeon calls for inquiry into the leaked memo in which she allegedly told an ambassador she secretly supported David Cameron as PM
Nicola has just put her career on the line. If it turns out that she's lying, she's finished.
Don't be stupid Monica, this is about the only time you can tell a politician is telling the truth, when they deny it that strongly in plain words you can be sure it is the truth. If it was not she would have had 15 minutes of weasely words and went round about the houses. The French have already publicly said it was false.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 3m3 minutes ago Nicola #Sturgeon calls for inquiry into the leaked memo in which she allegedly told an ambassador she secretly supported David Cameron as PM
Nicola has just put her career on the line. If it turns out that she's lying, she's finished.
Don't be stupid Monica, this is about the only time you can tell a politician is telling the truth, when they deny it that strongly in plain words you can be sure it is the truth. If it was not she would have had 15 minutes of weasely words and went round about the houses. The French have already publicly said it was false.
Reading between the lines of the memo, Nicola was rather tired and emotional after a long day. Perhaps she doesn't fully recall the night's conversations.
I bet she can hold her drink , no wishy washy effete Londoner politician here.
FWIW if I was able to bet, I think this frenchgate fiasco is the result of SLABs dirty tricks department. 1. SLAB have much better access to the Telegraph and to the civil servants. 2. McTiernan worked for the Telegraph and works for Jim Murphy. 3. SLAB have most to gain from this. 4. Labour had many politicised civil servants. McBride being one big example of the species.
Yup, that's my gut feeling as well. A Labour supporting Scottish civil servant has misrepresented the conversation and leaked a memo to the Telegraph.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Try and keep up. The French Counsel General was present and has just categorically denied the story in a long interview with Sky. He was the one who phoned the Foreign Office Official and although he looks like a splendid chap (and there is no way he would lie straight on camera) his accent could have been challanging to some plumby FO type.
So the Ambassador denies it, Sturgeon denies it, it wasn't in the official French or Scottish Government record of the meeting and the guy who made the phone call categorically denies saying it. Even the writer of the memo thought it was fanciful!
None of that is the story. The story is why this malicious or ridiculous piece of political gossip wended its way into the Torygraph - who is responsible for the dirty tricks..
He may even have tried and been told to go away, you don't know.
So long as its not libellous, and much as you would love it to be, it isn't, he can write any old bollocks he wants that his publisher will publish. How much fact checking do you think the Daily Sport does ?
None which is why the Daily Sport had the reputation it had. The Telegraph wants a different reputation. One where it is a reliable Newspaper of Record. The ONLY way to maintain such a reputation is through a journalistic process of meticulous fact checking.
I think we might be getting closer to the issue now. The Daily Clickbait has recently lost most of its quality journalists in a massive clear out of talent, most of which seems to have moved to Buzzfeed or Breitbart. Most of its bloggers got the boot a few months ago.
Indeed proper Fact Checked Journalism is more expensive, more labour intensive and slower. But it's also the basic claim that the dead tree media make for being more reliable.
If this turns out to be the hoax that it currently looks to be, this could do significant long term damage to the Telegraph. They're facing a huge IPSO sanction, potentially crippling litigation and a massive loss of reputaiton, all because they didn't make one phone call.
Nothing so far coming out suggests it was a fabrication. The Telegraph appears to have published a story based on a leaked memo. The content of the memo may not be to the liking of one or both participants and indeed maybe a distortion of what transpired but that does not make the memo fake !
Something here doesn't make sense. The civil servant who wrote the memo doubts whether Sturgeon would have made the remark. So who could have leaked it? There is no Lib Dem in the Foreign Office.
Something here doesn't make sense. The civil servant who wrote the memo doubts whether Sturgeon would have made the remark. So who could have leaked it? There is no Lib Dem in the Foreign Office.
I highly doubt it was a minister that leaked it. A Labour supporting civil servant is a much likelier candidate.
Something here doesn't make sense. The civil servant who wrote the memo doubts whether Sturgeon would have made the remark. So who could have leaked it? There is no Lib Dem in the Foreign Office.
In which case, the "caller" who suggested that comes into suspicion. He presumably works in the French Embassy.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Is there a difference
You have to be joking. The Tories have been fighting a Labour supporting Civil Service since they got into office. McBride was a civil servant remember. Ask Michael Gove how it was trying to reform his Tory civil service in the Department of Education.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
I'm not sure that this will actually make much difference now. Last night when it broke it seemed bigger, but this morning it seems like a dud. The full quote is basically nothing and even the civil servant who took down the notes doesn't believe it and it sounds like the Scottish government mandarin misrepresented the conversation to London.
Hence my original comment. The danger for the SNP is not this memo but their own wildly OTT reaction to the story.
You mean your irrational reaction to what you make up about their reaction. Just admit you are talking merde and move on.
Wanting the journalist sacked is absurd.
Not if he is making up stories and knowingly using false documents, using lies etc as it would appear. Either the document, his report or both look suspect given that both parties who had the conversation said it was untrue.
More question begging. You have no reason to suspect he knew the document was false. You don't even know if the document is false. You are going to have massive amounts of egg on your face if the document turns up, and appears genuine. Its entirely possible that a SLAB sympathisers in Holyrood wrote official minutes that misrepresented the meeting. Its also entirely possible the document is correct in every respect and that embarrassed people are denying it. Some evidence would be nice in place of all this ranting and hyperbole.
I don't mind egg on my face, someone has doctored something somewhere and a patsy journalist used it without checking, whole thing is extremely dodgy and for sure some economy with the truth going on. Unless you believe both her and the French Ambassador are liars then I hardly think it is hyperbole. Also given it is standard Westminster / Civil service smear tactics that have been used regularly again it seems not to be hyperbole. If it walks like a duck ,quacks like a duck and looks like a duck then it is a safe assumption to assume that it is a duck.
Try and keep up. The French Counsel General was present and has just categorically denied the story in a long interview with Sky. He was the one who phoned the Foreign Office Official and although he looks like a splendid chap (and there is no way he would lie straight on camera) his accent could have been challanging to some plumby FO type.
So the Ambassador denies it, Sturgeon denies it, it wasn't in the official French or Scottish Government record of the meeting and the guy who made the phone call categorically denies saying it. Even the writer of the memo thought it was fanciful!
None of that is the story. The story is why this malicious or ridiculous piece of political gossip wended its way into the Torygraph - who is responsible for the dirty tricks..
One thing there is no doubt about . This is that such a memo exists ! I have not read or heard that it is a fake.
It maybe that both the French Ambassador and Nicola Sturgeon can deny them [ the French obviously will as they do not want to be seen as involving themselves in the election in another country ].
Remember the memo was written in the Foreign office based on a telephone conversation. The two participants were themselves not involved in the memo - so easy for them to deny. The writer of the memo or even the person who telephoned - neither of whom were present presumably.
BBC has confirmed such a memo exists.The Telegraph were within their rights to write the story based on such a memo.
The diplomatic leak is a storm in a teacup (judging from the memo, it's probably founded in truth). But the SNP reaction to the story's publication is potentially far more damaging to their cause. Though sexed up, the memo is absolutely of public interest. Awkwardness for the SNP is not a ground to withhold publication.
Fact it is a lie is a concern
The memo exists. The reporting in that memo that Nicola Sturgeon preferred David Cameron as Prime Minister exists. That's a big story all by itself.
I'm not sure that this will actually make much difference now. Last night when it broke it seemed bigger, but this morning it seems like a dud. The full quote is basically nothing and even the civil servant who took down the notes doesn't believe it and it sounds like the Scottish government mandarin misrepresented the conversation to London.
Hence my original comment. The danger for the SNP is not this memo but their own wildly OTT reaction to the story.
You mean your irrational reaction to what you make up about their reaction. Just admit you are talking merde and move on.
Wanting the journalist sacked is absurd.
Not if he is making up stories and knowingly using false documents, using lies etc as it would appear. Either the document, his report or both look suspect given that both parties who had the conversation said it was untrue.
I admire your Scottish sense of fair play, of course if a politician and a French diplomat deny something then it must be untrue
John , for sure if the other participants are Westminster based.
Something here doesn't make sense. The civil servant who wrote the memo doubts whether Sturgeon would have made the remark. So who could have leaked it? There is no Lib Dem in the Foreign Office.
In which case, the "caller" who suggested that comes into suspicion. He presumably works in the French Embassy.
There appears to be a chain of minute taking. It appears that someone took minutes in the meeting, someone else read those minutes over the phone to a third party in London, who wrote down the minute that was leaked, and commented there in that he felt it likely that comment hand been made and something must have been lost in translation. Either the minute taker, the guy on the phone, or the London minute take might have seen fit to modify the contents of the minute, or they might be accurate.
Storm in a teacup-And why are the Nats so over the top about everything?
It's hysterical innit?
The Nats who are getting over excited about journalists lying, and demanding their resignation, were very quiet when Salmond lied about his legal advice about an Independent Scotland's membership of the EU.
Will be interesting to see if the Tories investigate the incident and we ever learn which government employees were involved in the lies and plotting against the Scottish Government. I will not hold my breath on that one.
Why would the Tories investigate it? Surely it's down to the Civil Service.
Is there a difference
You have to be joking. The Tories have been fighting a Labour supporting Civil Service since they got into office. McBride was a civil servant remember. Ask Michael Gove how it was trying to reform his Tory civil service in the Department of Education.
I work on the basis that so long as everyone agrees that the civil service is partisan against their team, they're probably reasonably impartial.
Remember it's the civil services job to stop the elected idiots ruining the country.
Something here doesn't make sense. The civil servant who wrote the memo doubts whether Sturgeon would have made the remark. So who could have leaked it? There is no Lib Dem in the Foreign Office.
In which case, the "caller" who suggested that comes into suspicion. He presumably works in the French Embassy.
There appears to be a chain of minute taking. It appears that someone took minutes in the meeting, someone else read those minutes over the phone to a third party in London, who wrote down the minute that was leaked, and commented there in that he felt it likely that comment hand been made and something must have been lost in translation. Either the minute taker, the guy on the phone, or the London minute take might have seen fit to modify the contents of the minute, or they might be accurate.
Storm in a teacup-And why are the Nats so over the top about everything?
Why not when you are dealing with lying cheating no-good toerags in Westminster on a daily basis. They and their paid lackeys like the Telegraph are below contempt and rotten to the core.
Storm in a teacup-And why are the Nats so over the top about everything?
Precisely. It probably was said. The Telegraph should have notified Sturgeon and asked for her account. It won't mark a return to former glories for SLAB. The SNP should probably just be brushing it off and not making such a fuss -they are drawing more attention to it than it warrants.
Dair Doubt it Telegraph readers hate the SNP and some hate Cameron, all SNP voters hate Cameron. Anyway the Zinoviev letter did not do the Mail much harm
Comments
We had several similar ones during the referendum that never got followed up.
I do not expect we will see this investigated properly or the instigators brought to book. Lots of dog whistles mind you.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Whatever happened to journalists verifying their stories , oh I forgot when you know you are printing blatant lies it is not wise to check up on them. Look over there a squirrel.
But doesn't say what office.
And the toxicity of the Tories in Scotland.
Of course the reaction is strong - those last few percentage points of potnetoal Labour to SNP switchers in the most nonlinear part of the votes vs seats curve.
Would they rather he had cut more? (to which the answer is possibly, but only so they could differentiate themselves more from him than they can do now).
Anyone not agreeing with SNP in Scotland is being alienated by the popularist expectations to vote SNP or be seen as some sort of Lord of the Manor traitor who should go and live in Downton Abbey.
Normal working class people will tire of this and see a SLAB vote as a route back from an isolationalist dictatorship
We will see if the Tories investigate the person who wrote the lies and who gave those lies to the journalist.
http://order-order.com/2015/04/02/ex-telegraph-hacks-pol-pot-twitter-smackdown/
We are not talking clowns like Dave here we are talking about real clever people.
Nicola #Sturgeon calls for inquiry into the leaked memo in which she allegedly told an ambassador she secretly supported David Cameron as PM
Therefore in summary this will help the NATS just like the attacks on Salmond of two weeks ago helped the NATS.
It keeps them front and centre of the campaign and everything else that is thrown at them will be part of the establishment dirty tricks narrative
Both Labour and LD spokesmen were quoted in the original article.
It maybe that both the French Ambassador and Nicola Sturgeon can deny them [ the French obviously will as they do not want to be seen as involving themselves in the election in another country ].
Remember the memo was written in the Foreign office based on a telephone conversation. The two participants were themselves not involved in the memo - so easy for them to deny. The writer of the memo or even the person who telephoned - neither of whom were present presumably.
But the identity of the official at the meeting will be known: wonder how he/she's feeling today.
This is a story that advantages two parties. Scottish Labour and Scottish Lib Dems. The Scottish Labour have past access to civil servants in London and Edinburgh. The Liberal Democrats run the Scottish Office. It is either SLAB or SLDs.
Daily Telegraph - Alex Salmond spent £20,000 keeping secret non-existent EU legal advice
Are we back in Kansas, Dorothy?
The conversation between her and the French Ambassador obviously happened - they did meet - the question is exactly what was said and by whom. If the DT stand by their story then someone needs to provide a documented alternative minute of the meeting.
Salmond can say what he likes before the election. If the Tories are the largest party in England and the SNP the largest party in Scotland a deal will be done for Scots home rule and EV4EL. Both parties want to shaft Labour and political reality will trump the mutual hatred.
If this turns out to be the hoax that it currently looks to be, this could do significant long term damage to the Telegraph. They're facing a huge IPSO sanction, potentially crippling litigation and a massive loss of reputaiton, all because they didn't make one phone call.
Sturgeon calls for inquiry into leaked memo about alleged PM comments
SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has told Sky News she is calling for an enquiry into a leaked memo that alleged she expressed a preference to see David Cameron as prime minister after the general election over Ed Miliband.
Ms Sturgeon has "categorically" denied making the comments during a meeting with a French diplomat in February.
Last updated Sat 4 Apr 2015
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-04-04/sturgeon-calls-for-inquiry-into-leaked-memo-about-alleged-pm-comments/
Go on Nicola keep digging.
1. SLAB have much better access to the Telegraph and to the civil servants.
2. McTiernan worked for the Telegraph and works for Jim Murphy.
3. SLAB have most to gain from this.
4. Labour had many politicised civil servants. McBride being one big example of the species.
I have no doubt the memo is genuine and the writer believed what he wrote.
Try and keep up. The French Counsel General was present and has just categorically denied the story in a long interview with Sky. He was the one who phoned the Foreign Office Official and although he looks like a splendid chap (and there is no way he would lie straight on camera) his accent could have been challanging to some plumby FO type.
So the Ambassador denies it, Sturgeon denies it, it wasn't in the official French or Scottish Government record of the meeting and the guy who made the phone call categorically denies saying it. Even the writer of the memo thought it was fanciful!
None of that is the story. The story is why this malicious or ridiculous piece of political gossip wended its way into the Torygraph - who is responsible for the dirty tricks..
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBvrkNfWMAA1Qzu.jpg
And their two panelists?
Peter Oborne and Dan Hodge.
Seriously.
Listen carefully to what he says (and doesn't say).
Unless you believe both her and the French Ambassador are liars then I hardly think it is hyperbole. Also given it is standard Westminster / Civil service smear tactics that have been used regularly again it seems not to be hyperbole.
If it walks like a duck ,quacks like a duck and looks like a duck then it is a safe assumption to assume that it is a duck.
The Nats who are getting over excited about journalists lying, and demanding their resignation, were very quiet when Salmond lied about his legal advice about an Independent Scotland's membership of the EU.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/oct/23/alex-salmond-eu-legal-advice-scotland
Remember it's the civil services job to stop the elected idiots ruining the country.
This is starting to look very, very bad for Alistair Carmichael and the Liberal Democrats.