Miliband successfully slapped Paxman on the toughness question using Syria.
So tough he stood up to a nice friendly soft-left democratic American leader rather than nasty scary Putin.
Disagree. It's much harder to stand up to Obama than Putin. He's the world's most powerful man and Britain has far more potentially to lose than from alienating Putin. If you instead think politics is wrestling that's up to you.
Cameron: statesmanlike, calm, measured if a touch arrogant but still very assured
Miliband: dreadful with the audience. Mauled first half by Paxo then picked up only to be floored by the final bit caught on mic which will make the news wires.
Scores on the doors out of 10
Cameron 8
Miliband 3
It was much closer than that. I would have said 7:5 to Cameron.
Very personal from Paxo. Where were the questions like that for his mate Dave
Thought he was far more agressive than for Cameron.
Cameron is better at managing Paxo with his answers. Ed's responses were a bit short and allowed Paxo back in. But I agree, Paxo came across as a bit of knob.
Turned off now, I assume there will be the usual faffe from broadcasters after these things, saying nothing.
The definitive verdict:
Cameron - 6 out of 10. Started poorly, but recovered and had some bloody easy questions thrown at him.
Ed M - 5 out of 10. Interviewed worse generally, and had tougher questions from the audience, but the tougher questions gave him more of a chance to say things at least closer to substance, and he sounded ok.
OT - it may be me, the onset of arthritis or senility but I discovered that I have a strange keyboard. Whatever key I hit it comes up with a random letter. If the Germans had my laptop they would have won the war and Benedict Cumberbatch would be receiving awards in New Berlin for portraying the life story of Albert Speer
If that is the case FP then this posting from you is clearly proof of the infinite monkey theory because your random letters have formed a completely coherent sentence. :-)
It is so that I am reduced - the front room is full of them as is the front room inside the front room ... ;-)
Sadly my time is more spent editing that typing. I predict a NJS ctisis in 20ntears
'Are you alright Ed?' From Paxman , on an open mic.
What was Ed's reply?
"Yes, are you?" - not a bad reply, to be honest!
True enough - Voice was a bit strained when giving it, I presume out of annoyance. (and I clarify that I have zero problems with Ed's voice generally - I have a boss who is a vocal doppleganger for Ed, so Ed sounds plenty authoritative to me)
Miliband successfully slapped Paxman on the toughness question using Syria.
So tough he stood up to a nice friendly soft-left democratic American leader rather than nasty scary Putin.
Disagree. It's much harder to stand up to Obama than Putin. He's the world's most powerful man and Britain has far more potentially to lose than from alienating Putin. If you instead think politics is wrestling that's up to you.
I know I tend to gravitate toward a position of sitting on the fence, but I am surprised our twitchy media personalities are bold enough to call that for one side or another really, given how tight the polls are and everything, figured they'd all give non-answers.
I stand by my prediction that this will shift not a single vote. I do believe Cameron should have debated Miliband man to man, as I now think he could have won, so significantly, as to even earn a majority. Miliband shrivels in front of a crowd.
Too late now.
That's why I say marginally because it was a difference of a couple of points out of 400 points.
Well, that was reasonably diverting for an evening. I assume nothing but the interviews will be talked of for a week, given how overly impactful things like these and debates are, according to some. While simultaneously meaning nothing if one person 'wins' or 'loses' of course.
In all honesty, would have preferred a debate, but I'll take what political theatre I can get - unlike lucky buggers in the marginals, I don't get much in the way of theatre or substance.
@SunPolitics 1m1 minute ago YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories ahead by two: CON 36, LAB 34, LD 7, UKIP 13, GRN 5
The 36 for Con could be quite significant. The tories have been laying siege to 36 for a while. Its fair to say they are desperate to retake the lost bastion. There has been the odd breach in the defences, it has been attacked from various directions, always forced back by Lab deploying hurried reserves. Will there be a breakthrough? Are the defenders reserves exhausted; can they fight on two fronts? Is the semi colon your friend or enemy.
Meantime in latest news the search is on for the lost body of Henry I. Reading Tourist Board out tomorrow with the ground radar.
BBC's Allegra Stratton: "clear win for Ed Miliband"
Now either she is a Labour shill or she is just a lefty who cannot see the trees OR I have read this very wrong.
Because, to me, in all honesty, Ed did significantly worse. And I cordially abhor both of them.
We shall see.
I suspect that the BBC might have £4 billion reasons to build up Labour for this election. After all if they've ordered the champagne bottles for May 8th they have to hope that they will use them.
So...irrespective of tonight's events and what impact if any it will have (likely marginal at best, like any other single event), with Miliband having poor ratings, and the Tory party still polling compared to Labour, which one might benefit most from a 'shy voter' effect?
Again, all the hacks get it wrong. Allegra Stratton, Faisal Islam, useless lefty tossers
ICM shows what I said: a clear win for Cameron.
Why am I so much smarter than everyone else in the entire cosmos? Tsk.
Not smarter than me, at least on this occasion.
Ed was an unmitigated disaster, Cameron wasn't great by any stretch but please, who wants that overgrown sixth form debater anywhere near the controls? Tell me all you one eyed partisan Socialists, are you happy with him or are you just a teeny bit worried about what he will do to this country.
@SunPolitics 1m1 minute ago YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories ahead by two: CON 36, LAB 34, LD 7, UKIP 13, GRN 5
The 36 for Con could be quite significant. The tories have been laying siege to 36 for a while. Its fair to say they are desperate to retake the lost bastion. There has been the odd breach in the defences, it has been attacked from various directions, always forced back by Lab deploying hurried reserves. Will there be a breakthrough? Are the defenders reserves exhausted; can they fight on two fronts? Is the semi colon your friend or enemy.
Meantime in latest news the search is on for the lost body of Henry I. Reading Tourist Board out tomorrow with the ground radar.
Yougov on Sky has called it for Miliband marginally.
Bizarre. Is it really just 'last thing you heard' boost, as I really cannot see how Ed M did objectively better than Cameron (Cam's personal ratings generally are the only reason I think he might edge it in his favour with others), and I'm the guy who until the Scottish collapse was calling the election for a Lab majority for 4 years.
Rupert Murdoch ✔ @rupertmurdoch Follow Thanks for 2 mentions, Ed Miliband. Only met once for all of 2 minutes when you embarrassed me with over the top flattery.
Yougov on Sky has called it for Miliband marginally.
Bizarre. Is it really just 'last thing you heard' boost, as I really cannot see how Ed M did objectively better than Cameron (Cam's personal ratings generally are the only reason I think he might edge it in his favour with others), and I'm the guy who until the Scottish collapse was calling the election for a Lab majority for 4 years.
Looking at the ICM poll, Miliband won in the crucial internal of votes, 56% of those said they might change their mind now say they will vote Labour, and on the best PM question Miliband narrows the gap to 48-40 with Cameron.
Rupert Murdoch ✔ @rupertmurdoch Follow Thanks for 2 mentions, Ed Miliband. Only met once for all of 2 minutes when you embarrassed me with over the top flattery.
Ha. Murdoch should only communicate on Twitter, he's great on it.
Ed would surely settle for a 54-46 defeat. His biggest problem though is not enough people will have been watching. He's passable but he needs too get in front of more people.
Ed would surely settle for a 54-46 defeat. His biggest problem though is not enough people will have been watching. He's passable but he needs too get in front of more people.
Yougov on Sky has called it for Miliband marginally.
Bizarre. Is it really just 'last thing you heard' boost, as I really cannot see how Ed M did objectively better than Cameron (Cam's personal ratings generally are the only reason I think he might edge it in his favour with others), and I'm the guy who until the Scottish collapse was calling the election for a Lab majority for 4 years.
See my posts, It's bollocks. Cameron won with ICM and with YouGov. There is also another YouGov poll showing Cameron winning by a larger margin.
The Labour spinning is hilarious. The Guardian has a liveblog with about 400 journalistic analyses saying how well Miliband is doing, then they hit the brick wall of the ICM poll, and eerie silence prevails.
54-46 and 51-49 is not what people would expect from a Cameron/Miliband debate. You know who the victor is when the ICM poll says 40% think Miliband will be best PM.
Yougov on Sky has called it for Miliband marginally.
Bizarre. Is it really just 'last thing you heard' boost, as I really cannot see how Ed M did objectively better than Cameron (Cam's personal ratings generally are the only reason I think he might edge it in his favour with others), and I'm the guy who until the Scottish collapse was calling the election for a Lab majority for 4 years.
See my posts, It's bollocks. Cameron won with ICM and with YouGov. There is also another YouGov poll showing Cameron winning by a larger margin.
The Labour spinning is hilarious. The Guardian has a liveblog with about 400 journalistic analyses saying how well Miliband is doing, then they hit the brick wall of the ICM poll, and eerie silence prevails.
54-46 and 51-49 is not what people would expect from a Cameron/Miliband debate. You know who the victor is when the ICM poll says 40% think Miliband will be best PM.
Statistics lie if you just look at the bare numbers, it's why the smarter people wait to see the details of a poll.
More from the ICM poll.
Only 8% of those polled overall indicated that they were likely to have changed their mind about how they would vote at the election on the basis of what they saw tonight.
Amongst those, 56% said they would now vote Labour. And just 30% said they were now backing the Conservatives.
Yougov on Sky has called it for Miliband marginally.
Bizarre. Is it really just 'last thing you heard' boost, as I really cannot see how Ed M did objectively better than Cameron (Cam's personal ratings generally are the only reason I think he might edge it in his favour with others), and I'm the guy who until the Scottish collapse was calling the election for a Lab majority for 4 years.
See my posts, It's bollocks. Cameron won with ICM and with YouGov. There is also another YouGov poll showing Cameron winning by a larger margin.
The Labour spinning is hilarious. The Guardian has a liveblog with about 400 journalistic analyses saying how well Miliband is doing, then they hit the brick wall of the ICM poll, and eerie silence prevails.
54-46 and 51-49 is not what people would expect from a Cameron/Miliband debate. You know who the victor is when the ICM poll says 40% think Miliband will be best PM.
You said Ed had won the YouGov poll didn't you ?
The Yougov representative on Sky said that, I just reprinted.
Guardian blog "The ICM poll also asked about character.
Ed Miliband did better than David Cameron on four counts: governing in the interests of the many not the few (55% v 27%); having the courage to say what’s right rather than what’s popular (51% v 35%); and understanding “people like me” (48% v 25%). And, when asked which leader was more spin than substance, Miliband also did better. Some 49% said Cameron was more spin than substance, but only 35% for Miliband.
Cameron also won on four counts: being respected around the word (58% to 19%): being decisive (54% to 29%); being good in a crisis (46% to 21%); and being backed by his party (58% to 21%).
The two men are almost equally matched on having “changed his party for the better”. Some 36% say that of Cameron, and 35% of Miliband."
Guardian blog "The ICM poll also asked about character.
Ed Miliband did better than David Cameron on four counts: governing in the interests of the many not the few (55% v 27%); having the courage to say what’s right rather than what’s popular (51% v 35%); and understanding “people like me” (48% v 25%). And, when asked which leader was more spin than substance, Miliband also did better. Some 49% said Cameron was more spin than substance, but only 35% for Miliband.
Cameron also won on four counts: being respected around the word (58% to 19%): being decisive (54% to 29%); being good in a crisis (46% to 21%); and being backed by his party (58% to 21%).
The two men are almost equally matched on having “changed his party for the better”. Some 36% say that of Cameron, and 35% of Miliband."
Cameron decisive and backed by his party? Sure he is (I know he polls well with them, but I guess that doesn't include all those Tory MP rebels).
Guardian blog "The ICM poll also asked about character.
Ed Miliband did better than David Cameron on four counts: governing in the interests of the many not the few (55% v 27%); having the courage to say what’s right rather than what’s being good in a crisis (46% to 21%); popular (51% v 35%); and understanding “people like me” (48% v 25%). And, when asked which leader was more spin than substance, Miliband also did better. Some 49% said Cameron was more spin than substance, but only 35% for Miliband.
Cameron also won on four counts: being respected around the word (58% to 19%): being decisive (54% to 29%); being good in a crisis (46% to 21%); and being backed by his party (58% to 21%).
The two men are almost equally matched on having “changed his party for the better”. Some 36% say that of Cameron, and 35% of Miliband."
being good in a crisis (46% to 21%); that's a big one for Cameron and governing in the interests of the many not the few (55% v 27%); and understanding “people like me” (48% v 25%). these two good for miliband.
Comments
And Ed..? I cringed a bit at times. But reaction online looks positive. Think Paxman a touch too personal.
"Im alrigghht!!!"
Cant think on his feet
Farage also calls it for Ed as it happens
Ed Miliband won. And must've earned a lot of respect. #BattleForNumber10
Ed 4/10
Neither impressed. Dave stayed on message better though. Ed improved at the end and dealt with the personal stuff well, made him look a bit better.
Crap at the start of Paxo bit really good at the end of the Paxo bit.
Didn't see Dave at all but even DH thought Ed was better with Paxo
Any relatively impartial observers like David L or Pulpstar/TSE like to give us their views
The definitive verdict:
Cameron - 6 out of 10. Started poorly, but recovered and had some bloody easy questions thrown at him.
Ed M - 5 out of 10. Interviewed worse generally, and had tougher questions from the audience, but the tougher questions gave him more of a chance to say things at least closer to substance, and he sounded ok.
" Anyone who votes for that prick should be sent straight to the nearest asylum! "
Thank you for your considered and balanced response, it aids my understanding a great deal.
Sadly my time is more spent editing that typing. I predict a NJS ctisis in 20ntears
SNP verdict - *Smug scoff*
LD verdict - Christ, better out than in
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/the-leaders-interviews-twerdict/
The Sun is a lefty communist rag though? We need to wait for the "gold standard" verdict.
In all honesty, would have preferred a debate, but I'll take what political theatre I can get - unlike lucky buggers in the marginals, I don't get much in the way of theatre or substance.
A 54-46 divide is does not equal Miliband being terrible as you said.
Meantime in latest news the search is on for the lost body of Henry I. Reading Tourist Board out tomorrow with the ground radar.
Cameron 5/10
Miliband 5.5/10
A 70-30 for Cameron?
The weird looking nerdy Ed checked Cameron on TV, doing much better that everyone expected.
Ed was an unmitigated disaster, Cameron wasn't great by any stretch but please, who wants that overgrown sixth form debater anywhere near the controls? Tell me all you one eyed partisan Socialists, are you happy with him or are you just a teeny bit worried about what he will do to this country.
More data for the Guardian poll
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/mar/26/election-2015-david-cameron-ed-miliband-jeremy-paxman-live-updates#block-55148a15e4b0b1a24cd21269
Rupert Murdoch ✔ @rupertmurdoch
Follow
Thanks for 2 mentions, Ed Miliband. Only met once for all of 2 minutes when you embarrassed me with over the top flattery.
John, I am a working class boy from a council flat but Ed no more represents the working class than Cameron.
One figure from the Left I liked in recent years was Bob Crow, if he had been Labour leader I could have voted for him.
So that's essentially the 50-50 you said you expected.
You know who the victor is when the ICM poll says 40% think Miliband will be best PM.
You make people think you are a bad loser.
Statistics lie if you just look at the bare numbers, it's why the smarter people wait to see the details of a poll.
More from the ICM poll.
Only 8% of those polled overall indicated that they were likely to have changed their mind about how they would vote at the election on the basis of what they saw tonight.
Amongst those, 56% said they would now vote Labour. And just 30% said they were now backing the Conservatives.
Or are we not into that bit of the broadcast rules yet
"The ICM poll also asked about character.
Ed Miliband did better than David Cameron on four counts: governing in the interests of the many not the few (55% v 27%); having the courage to say what’s right rather than what’s popular (51% v 35%); and understanding “people like me” (48% v 25%). And, when asked which leader was more spin than substance, Miliband also did better. Some 49% said Cameron was more spin than substance, but only 35% for Miliband.
Cameron also won on four counts: being respected around the word (58% to 19%): being decisive (54% to 29%); being good in a crisis (46% to 21%); and being backed by his party (58% to 21%).
The two men are almost equally matched on having “changed his party for the better”. Some 36% say that of Cameron, and 35% of Miliband."