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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With the campaign just about to start new BES polling sugge

SystemSystem Posts: 11,693
edited March 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With the campaign just about to start new BES polling suggests the the Tories will hang onto current levels of support…but

With the formal hostilities due to start on Thursday with the Channel 4/Sky News event the British Election Study has new polling that suggests that looks at the CON record on key policies.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2015
    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2015
    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    Just because some voters are living in cloud-cuckoo land, that doesn't necessarily mean that a political party claiming it is fit to be in power in six weeks' time would be well-advised to agree with them. Quite apart from anything else, politics doesn't end on May 8th 2015. There's a risk, after all, that Labour might actually win the election - and then what would they do?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    I thought it was quite wonderful when Balls said he wouldn't cut any of the cuts or something like that.

    Gives up the CDE of Scotland completely whilst keeping them in the hunt in lower middle class England.

    PERFECT.
  • Options
    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    Can anyone recommend a good seat predictor? EC seems to be way out.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    Just because some voters are living in cloud-cuckoo land, that doesn't necessarily mean that a political party claiming it is fit to be in power in six weeks' time would be well-advised to agree with them. Quite apart from anything else, politics doesn't end on May 8th 2015. There's a risk, after all, that Labour might actually win the election - and then what would they do?
    "Some voters" meaning three-quarters of the public?

    What Labour could do if they win the election is to do what governments have done for something like 100 of the last 150 years (including most of Thatcher's years in office, and indeed the past 5 years): not worry about running a relatively modest deficit, watch the sky NOT fall in despite some initial hysterical scaremongering, and instead focus on looking after the British people and the public services they depend on.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    edited March 2015
    Tabman said:

    Can anyone recommend a good seat predictor? EC seems to be way out.

    Electionforecast.co.uk, May2015.com & Ashcroft polls.

    EC is worth bearing in mind but I attach more weight to the others.
  • Options
    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    If governments gave the spectacularly under-informed electorate everything they wanted we'd be in serious trouble rather quickly.

    Politicians in an ideal world should be chosen for their judgement above all else, not what baubles they promise to hand out in manifestos. Reality probably somewhere in between I would say
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
  • Options
    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    Pulpstar said:

    Tabman said:

    Can anyone recommend a good seat predictor? EC seems to be way out.

    Electionforecast.co.uk, May2015.com & Ashcroft polls.

    EC is worth bearing in mind but I attach more weight to the others.
    Gracias Senor

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
    how on earth do the Conservatives stay in power if they are behind on seats ?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,361
    Part-ELBOW for the three national polls so far this week (Populus, YG, Ashcroft):

    Lab 1.1% lead
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Tabman said:

    Can anyone recommend a good seat predictor? EC seems to be way out.

    http://www.electionforecast.co.uk

    Hi- it is updated automatically I think dependant on polls.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
    how on earth do the Conservatives stay in power if they are behind on seats ?
    To be honest, my fear is that if the Tories get most votes (even if they're second on seats), the public will see the Tories as the "legitimate" government.

    Whether they can get the Parliamentary arithmetic to work in their favour in such a scenario is a different question, though.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
    how on earth do the Conservatives stay in power if they are behind on seats ?
    To be honest, my fear is that if the Tories get most votes (even if they're second on seats), the public will see the Tories as the "legitimate" government.

    Whether they can get the Parliamentary arithmetic to work in their favour in such a scenario is a different question, though.
    Labour can be a few seats behind and still form the Gov't.

    If Lab + SDLP + Green + PC + SNP > 323, Ed is PM.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    I can't help but think the GE will be determined less by Cameron hanging on to his support as Ed losing his.

    Neither is particularly well placed to motivate more people to vote for them.
  • Options
    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    I'm heading out onto the mean streets of North Birmingham next week in my small attempt to boost turnout from their recent derisory levels. If you think the aim is worthwhile, please throw a penny in the jar... http://www.gofundme.com/pqy6qc
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,883
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
    how on earth do the Conservatives stay in power if they are behind on seats ?
    To be honest, my fear is that if the Tories get most votes (even if they're second on seats), the public will see the Tories as the "legitimate" government.

    Whether they can get the Parliamentary arithmetic to work in their favour in such a scenario is a different question, though.
    Labour can be a few seats behind and still form the Gov't.

    If Lab + SDLP + Green + PC + SNP > 323, Ed is PM.
    Dont forget Respect as well
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    I thought Professor Green is a singer.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,218
    Re the Labour NHS poster, someone (sorry can't remember who) said on the previous thread that Labour were obviously using a stock photo.

    I'm a bit puzzled by this. Does the NHS sell our X-rays to photographic libraries? I'm pretty certain that I've never consented to any of my medical information being sold to a commercial organisation for advertising purposes. Or is this an X-ray from overseas?

    How can a patient's X-ray become a stock photo without the patient explicitly consenting? And if they did not consent, aren't there other obvious questions to be asked about a political party's use of such material than what the X-ray reveals?

    Incidentally on the NHS I was at my local hospital this morning for some tests (after the GP's worried look yesterday, I'm rather hoping he's hopelessly wrong on what might be wrong with me) and it has clearly had a lot of money spent on it with more being spent and not just on fripperies but on real improvements. Very impressive. As was the service. I've also noted that my GP practice has improved significantly.

    Purely anecdotal I know and I realise that BJO and Foxnsox have the insider's view but I find it hard to reconcile what I see as a patient with the doom'n'gloom I read in the papers about the NHS.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    'I can't help but think the GE will be determined less by Cameron hanging on to his support as Ed losing his.'

    Ed won't even lose his support. It simply won't turn up.
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Pulpstar said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
    how on earth do the Conservatives stay in power if they are behind on seats ?
    Constitutionally, It is for the opposition to oust the Prime Minister. If Labour can only propose a Labour-led minority government, rather than a stable government, then that will be hard for them to do.

    Although votes don't affect that arithmetic directly, obviously this is down to political will/reality and only a Tory lead on votes would convince Cameron to bunker down and run a minority government (for however long).
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    Despite a few of them peeling off to the Greens, the 2010 Lib Dems are still a decent positive for Ed. Also the fact that in the round when you look at opinion polls you sort of need to add 1% on for Labour in the Lab-Con battlegrounds of England as that's been lost in Scotland.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,844
    edited March 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
    how on earth do the Conservatives stay in power if they are behind on seats ?
    To be honest, my fear is that if the Tories get most votes (even if they're second on seats), the public will see the Tories as the "legitimate" government.

    Whether they can get the Parliamentary arithmetic to work in their favour in such a scenario is a different question, though.
    Labour can be a few seats behind and still form the Gov't.

    If Lab + SDLP + Green + PC + SNP > 323, Ed is PM.
    How we'd laugh at that shambles...

    :smiley::smiley::smiley:

  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Tabman said:

    Can anyone recommend a good seat predictor? EC seems to be way out.

    ARSE

  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
    how on earth do the Conservatives stay in power if they are behind on seats ?
    To be honest, my fear is that if the Tories get most votes (even if they're second on seats), the public will see the Tories as the "legitimate" government.

    Whether they can get the Parliamentary arithmetic to work in their favour in such a scenario is a different question, though.
    Labour can be a few seats behind and still form the Gov't.

    If Lab + SDLP + Green + PC + SNP > 323, Ed is PM.
    For about a fortnight.
  • Options
    blueburnblueburn Posts: 14
    ''And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit''. So, 75% of respondents are total morons, rendering the concept of democracy dead. Time to send for Richard III.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,361
    Part-ELBOW for the three national polls so far this week (Populus, YG, Ashcroft):

    Lab 1.1% lead

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
    how on earth do the Conservatives stay in power if they are behind on seats ?
    To be honest, my fear is that if the Tories get most votes (even if they're second on seats), the public will see the Tories as the "legitimate" government.

    Whether they can get the Parliamentary arithmetic to work in their favour in such a scenario is a different question, though.
    Labour can be a few seats behind and still form the Gov't.

    If Lab + SDLP + Green + PC + SNP > 323, Ed is PM.
    For about a fortnight.
    No, I think it carries on till 2016 - fudge is in large supply at Westminster normally. Also Conservatives and Lib Dems will be having leadership elections and will be buttering up some Labour backbenchers to bring down the Gov't.

    Doubt Danczuk and Woodcock to name but two would need any buttering at all though.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    What were the options, was it just 'absolutely necessary' and 'absolutely unnecessary'. Or was there more of a continuum?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    Just because some voters are living in cloud-cuckoo land, that doesn't necessarily mean that a political party claiming it is fit to be in power in six weeks' time would be well-advised to agree with them. Quite apart from anything else, politics doesn't end on May 8th 2015. There's a risk, after all, that Labour might actually win the election - and then what would they do?
    "Some voters" meaning three-quarters of the public?

    What Labour could do if they win the election is to do what governments have done for something like 100 of the last 150 years (including most of Thatcher's years in office, and indeed the past 5 years): not worry about running a relatively modest deficit, watch the sky NOT fall in despite some initial hysterical scaremongering, and instead focus on looking after the British people and the public services they depend on.
    Thick, thick, thick - we have zero inflation and are subject to EU rules on deficits not to mention the IMF etc, - there is no way we can borrow yet more to fund social services for the idle and feckless. You really need to grow up, or better still, move to Greece and try some real austerity.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
    how on earth do the Conservatives stay in power if they are behind on seats ?
    To be honest, my fear is that if the Tories get most votes (even if they're second on seats), the public will see the Tories as the "legitimate" government.

    Whether they can get the Parliamentary arithmetic to work in their favour in such a scenario is a different question, though.
    Labour can be a few seats behind and still form the Gov't.

    If Lab + SDLP + Green + PC + SNP > 323, Ed is PM.
    How we'd laugh at that shambles...

    :smiley::smiley::smiley:

    Con + LD + DUP + UKIP at 324 seats would be just as amusing tbh.

    Popcorn all round for either of them.
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
    how on earth do the Conservatives stay in power if they are behind on seats ?
    To be honest, my fear is that if the Tories get most votes (even if they're second on seats), the public will see the Tories as the "legitimate" government.

    Whether they can get the Parliamentary arithmetic to work in their favour in such a scenario is a different question, though.
    Labour can be a few seats behind and still form the Gov't.

    If Lab + SDLP + Green + PC + SNP > 323, Ed is PM.
    For about a fortnight.
    No, I think it carries on till 2016 - fudge is in large supply at Westminster normally. Also Conservatives and Lib Dems will be having leadership elections and will be buttering up some Labour backbenchers to bring down the Gov't.

    Doubt Danczuk and Woodcock to name but two would need any buttering at all though.
    Going back to my scenario, it's possible that an arrangement, however unstable, would cross the primary hurdle of getting Cameron out and Miliband in. Once that had happened, it would be a Labour minority government that would result from a collapse, not a Tory one.

    As to whether Lab + SDLP + Green + PC + SNP would work, that might a bridge too far, even though I don't doubt there is more room for fuge than most people think.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,444
    The BES shocked me at a conference last month by predicting just one Liberal Democrat hold.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    http://electionsetc.com/ - Check out the number of ways Nigel Dodds can have a critical influence on parliament.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    isam posted this via a tweet on the last thread:

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-03/24/political-betting-guide-uk-general-election-2015

    "Hot political betting tips from the bookies
    ...

    A minority government, either Labour or Tory, currently seems under-rated to Betfair's James Midmer: "It's getting hard to see any alternative result."

    For Ladbrokes' Matthew Shaddick, it's all about getting data from reliable sources like electionsetc.com or electionforecast.co.uk, and the under-rated possibility of a Labour minority government." "

    *innocent face*

    The most constitutionally difficult scenario would be where Labour lead the Tories by a small number of seats, but can't form a government. In such a case, the Tories might be ahead on votes, behind on seats... and maybe retain the government...
    how on earth do the Conservatives stay in power if they are behind on seats ?
    To be honest, my fear is that if the Tories get most votes (even if they're second on seats), the public will see the Tories as the "legitimate" government.

    Whether they can get the Parliamentary arithmetic to work in their favour in such a scenario is a different question, though.
    Labour can be a few seats behind and still form the Gov't.

    If Lab + SDLP + Green + PC + SNP > 323, Ed is PM.
    I'm not sure whether such a government would last very long.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    @Sean_F You can have Con + LD with c&s from UKIP and DUP if you like ;)
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    felix said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    Just because some voters are living in cloud-cuckoo land, that doesn't necessarily mean that a political party claiming it is fit to be in power in six weeks' time would be well-advised to agree with them. Quite apart from anything else, politics doesn't end on May 8th 2015. There's a risk, after all, that Labour might actually win the election - and then what would they do?
    "Some voters" meaning three-quarters of the public?

    What Labour could do if they win the election is to do what governments have done for something like 100 of the last 150 years (including most of Thatcher's years in office, and indeed the past 5 years): not worry about running a relatively modest deficit, watch the sky NOT fall in despite some initial hysterical scaremongering, and instead focus on looking after the British people and the public services they depend on.
    Thick, thick, thick - we have zero inflation and are subject to EU rules on deficits not to mention the IMF etc, - there is no way we can borrow yet more to fund social services for the idle and feckless. You really need to grow up, or better still, move to Greece and try some real austerity.
    I wasn't aware there were any EU deficit targets (excepting Eurozone and new entrants)?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Burn.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    felix said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    Just because some voters are living in cloud-cuckoo land, that doesn't necessarily mean that a political party claiming it is fit to be in power in six weeks' time would be well-advised to agree with them. Quite apart from anything else, politics doesn't end on May 8th 2015. There's a risk, after all, that Labour might actually win the election - and then what would they do?
    "Some voters" meaning three-quarters of the public?

    What Labour could do if they win the election is to do what governments have done for something like 100 of the last 150 years (including most of Thatcher's years in office, and indeed the past 5 years): not worry about running a relatively modest deficit, watch the sky NOT fall in despite some initial hysterical scaremongering, and instead focus on looking after the British people and the public services they depend on.
    Thick, thick, thick - we have zero inflation and are subject to EU rules on deficits not to mention the IMF etc, - there is no way we can borrow yet more to fund social services for the idle and feckless. You really need to grow up, or better still, move to Greece and try some real austerity.
    Then how come we're able to borrow RIGHT NOW? Why are MORE cuts necessary when there are no problems securing borrowing for the level of current spending? And I'm afraid I'm not going to buy that the markets have some supreme faith in the mythical powers of George Osborne which means they can swallow fiscal policies that they wouldn't swallow from other governments pursuing the same ones.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    http://electionsetc.com/ - Check out the number of ways Nigel Dodds can have a critical influence on parliament.

    The DUP are quite clear what they want: money.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/dup-names-its-price-for-electoral-deal-with-tories-or-labour-1bn-for-northern-ireland-10128931.html
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Grandiose said:

    felix said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    Just because some voters are living in cloud-cuckoo land, that doesn't necessarily mean that a political party claiming it is fit to be in power in six weeks' time would be well-advised to agree with them. Quite apart from anything else, politics doesn't end on May 8th 2015. There's a risk, after all, that Labour might actually win the election - and then what would they do?
    "Some voters" meaning three-quarters of the public?

    What Labour could do if they win the election is to do what governments have done for something like 100 of the last 150 years (including most of Thatcher's years in office, and indeed the past 5 years): not worry about running a relatively modest deficit, watch the sky NOT fall in despite some initial hysterical scaremongering, and instead focus on looking after the British people and the public services they depend on.
    Thick, thick, thick - we have zero inflation and are subject to EU rules on deficits not to mention the IMF etc, - there is no way we can borrow yet more to fund social services for the idle and feckless. You really need to grow up, or better still, move to Greece and try some real austerity.
    I wasn't aware there were any EU deficit targets (excepting Eurozone and new entrants)?
    There certainly are I believe which cover all members. Having said that my points remain valid even if there were no constraints of that kind. Danny wants the rest of the world - most of which is much poorer than the UK to fund us in a much richer lifestyle. Incredibly selfish and really thick!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    Lab + SDLP + Green + PC + SNP = 326
    Con + LD + DUP + UKIP ~= 317 on Mr Fisher's model at the moment.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Labour NHS poster, someone (sorry can't remember who) said on the previous thread that Labour were obviously using a stock photo.

    I'm a bit puzzled by this. Does the NHS sell our X-rays to photographic libraries? I'm pretty certain that I've never consented to any of my medical information being sold to a commercial organisation for advertising purposes. Or is this an X-ray from overseas?

    How can a patient's X-ray become a stock photo without the patient explicitly consenting? And if they did not consent, aren't there other obvious questions to be asked about a political party's use of such material than what the X-ray reveals?

    Incidentally on the NHS I was at my local hospital this morning for some tests (after the GP's worried look yesterday, I'm rather hoping he's hopelessly wrong on what might be wrong with me) and it has clearly had a lot of money spent on it with more being spent and not just on fripperies but on real improvements. Very impressive. As was the service. I've also noted that my GP practice has improved significantly.

    Purely anecdotal I know and I realise that BJO and Foxnsox have the insider's view but I find it hard to reconcile what I see as a patient with the doom'n'gloom I read in the papers about the NHS.

    Google 'Romford recorder queens hospital'
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Danny565 said:

    felix said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    Just because some voters are living in cloud-cuckoo land, that doesn't necessarily mean that a political party claiming it is fit to be in power in six weeks' time would be well-advised to agree with them. Quite apart from anything else, politics doesn't end on May 8th 2015. There's a risk, after all, that Labour might actually win the election - and then what would they do?
    "Some voters" meaning three-quarters of the public?

    What Labour could do if they win the election is to do what governments have done for something like 100 of the last 150 years (including most of Thatcher's years in office, and indeed the past 5 years): not worry about running a relatively modest deficit, watch the sky NOT fall in despite some initial hysterical scaremongering, and instead focus on looking after the British people and the public services they depend on.
    Thick, thick, thick - we have zero inflation and are subject to EU rules on deficits not to mention the IMF etc, - there is no way we can borrow yet more to fund social services for the idle and feckless. You really need to grow up, or better still, move to Greece and try some real austerity.
    Then how come we're able to borrow RIGHT NOW? Why are MORE cuts necessary when there are no problems securing borrowing for the level of current spending? And I'm afraid I'm not going to buy that the markets have some supreme faith in the mythical powers of George Osborne which means they can swallow fiscal policies that they wouldn't swallow from other governments pursuing the same ones.
    You cannot live on borrowing without impoverishing the future. I'm not going to bother arguing further with you as it is clearly pointless. You'll never get it.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Danny565 said:

    Then how come we're able to borrow RIGHT NOW? Why are MORE cuts necessary when there are no problems securing borrowing for the level of current spending? And I'm afraid I'm not going to buy that the markets have some supreme faith in the mythical powers of George Osborne which means they can swallow fiscal policies that they wouldn't swallow from other governments pursuing the same ones.

    Err, but you were suggesting that a future Labour-led government should pursue completely different policies.

    It's brilliant logic - "the markets and business are confident that Osborne has it right, therefore we can completely safely do the opposite and still retain market and business confidence".
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    felix said:

    Danny565 said:

    felix said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    Just because some voters are living in cloud-cuckoo land, that doesn't necessarily mean that a political party claiming it is fit to be in power in six weeks' time would be well-advised to agree with them. Quite apart from anything else, politics doesn't end on May 8th 2015. There's a risk, after all, that Labour might actually win the election - and then what would they do?
    "Some voters" meaning three-quarters of the public?

    What Labour could do if they win the election is to do what governments have done for something like 100 of the last 150 years (including most of Thatcher's years in office, and indeed the past 5 years): not worry about running a relatively modest deficit, watch the sky NOT fall in despite some initial hysterical scaremongering, and instead focus on looking after the British people and the public services they depend on.
    Thick, thick, thick - we have zero inflation and are subject to EU rules on deficits not to mention the IMF etc, - there is no way we can borrow yet more to fund social services for the idle and feckless. You really need to grow up, or better still, move to Greece and try some real austerity.
    Then how come we're able to borrow RIGHT NOW? Why are MORE cuts necessary when there are no problems securing borrowing for the level of current spending? And I'm afraid I'm not going to buy that the markets have some supreme faith in the mythical powers of George Osborne which means they can swallow fiscal policies that they wouldn't swallow from other governments pursuing the same ones.
    You cannot live on borrowing without impoverishing the future. I'm not going to bother arguing further with you as it is clearly pointless. You'll never get it.
    That still doesn't address why, if it's so impossible to "live on borrowing", why RIGHT NOW we're "living on borrowing" and the sky ISN'T falling in.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Danny565 said:

    That still doesn't address why, if it's so impossible to "live on borrowing", why RIGHT NOW we're "living on borrowing" and the sky ISN'T falling in.

    Have you ever tried renewing an overdraft using that logic?
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2015

    Danny565 said:

    Then how come we're able to borrow RIGHT NOW? Why are MORE cuts necessary when there are no problems securing borrowing for the level of current spending? And I'm afraid I'm not going to buy that the markets have some supreme faith in the mythical powers of George Osborne which means they can swallow fiscal policies that they wouldn't swallow from other governments pursuing the same ones.

    Err, but you were suggesting that a future Labour-led government should pursue completely different policies.
    I'm saying that spending/the deficit should be kept at roughly the same level as now (a level which "the markets" are perfectly happy with), rather than cut back further unnecessarily as both the Tories and Labour are insisting on.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Pulpstar said:

    Lab + SDLP + Green + PC + SNP = 326
    Con + LD + DUP + UKIP ~= 317 on Mr Fisher's model at the moment.

    Con+Lab+LD+UKIP+SDLP+DUP+Green+PC =591.

    Bagpipes are made illegal.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2015
    Danny565 said:

    I'm saying that spending/the deficit should be kept at roughly the same level as now (a level which "the markets" are perfectly happy with), rather than cut back further unnecessarily.

    They are not 'perfectly happy' with it continuing indefinitely. They are happy with the course which the government has set out to address the problem, a course which you are proposing to trash.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    @Antifrank The DUP are impressive negotiators, they have potential deals lined up with UKIP, Lab, Con and have arranged some nice moves with the UUP to their mutual benefit in NI.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758

    Danny565 said:

    That still doesn't address why, if it's so impossible to "live on borrowing", why RIGHT NOW we're "living on borrowing" and the sky ISN'T falling in.

    Have you ever tried renewing an overdraft using that logic?
    LOL, Richard, you just know he has.

    " look if I borrow more then I can affford to pay back my loans"
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Interesting article on Labour's woes in Scotland. Written with an SNP slant, but it does contain this gem
    Labour is trying to play two games at once, and losing. Jim Murphy’s leadership has failed to budge the polls, while Ed Miliband – lacking in integrity and full of air – continues to project as much clout as a BHS bag flapping on a branch.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/24/labour-scotland-scots-snp-nationalism-18-years
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    I guess of all the main parties they pretty much know they'll get 8 or 9 seats so have been able to forward plan some.
  • Options
    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Then how come we're able to borrow RIGHT NOW? Why are MORE cuts necessary when there are no problems securing borrowing for the level of current spending? And I'm afraid I'm not going to buy that the markets have some supreme faith in the mythical powers of George Osborne which means they can swallow fiscal policies that they wouldn't swallow from other governments pursuing the same ones.

    Err, but you were suggesting that a future Labour-led government should pursue completely different policies.
    I'm saying that spending/the deficit should be kept at roughly the same level as now (a level which "the markets" are perfectly happy with), rather than cut back further unnecessarily as both the Tories and Labour are insisting on.
    The day will come when we can't borrow at the historically low rates we can today. Keeping the deficit at today's levels will then cost us a lot lot more, implying more spending on debt servicing and less on other stuff.

    In any case today's low levels of interest rates are in large part down to the direction of travel of the deficit being downwards, and the fact the economy is growing. Both thanks in no small part to George Osborne.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    http://electionsetc.com/ - Check out the number of ways Nigel Dodds can have a critical influence on parliament.

    The DUP are quite clear what they want: money.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/dup-names-its-price-for-electoral-deal-with-tories-or-labour-1bn-for-northern-ireland-10128931.html
    Not actually that much different from any of the other parties.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Labour NHS poster, someone (sorry can't remember who) said on the previous thread that Labour were obviously using a stock photo.

    I'm a bit puzzled by this. Does the NHS sell our X-rays to photographic libraries? I'm pretty certain that I've never consented to any of my medical information being sold to a commercial organisation for advertising purposes. Or is this an X-ray from overseas?

    How can a patient's X-ray become a stock photo without the patient explicitly consenting? And if they did not consent, aren't there other obvious questions to be asked about a political party's use of such material than what the X-ray reveals?

    Incidentally on the NHS I was at my local hospital this morning for some tests (after the GP's worried look yesterday, I'm rather hoping he's hopelessly wrong on what might be wrong with me) and it has clearly had a lot of money spent on it with more being spent and not just on fripperies but on real improvements. Very impressive. As was the service. I've also noted that my GP practice has improved significantly.

    Purely anecdotal I know and I realise that BJO and Foxnsox have the insider's view but I find it hard to reconcile what I see as a patient with the doom'n'gloom I read in the papers about the NHS.

    It is likely to be a stock photo, so could be from anywhere in the world. Such images cannot be published without patient consent even in medical journals in the UK. There are a great number of medical youtube clips that may or may not have been through the consent process.

    In terms of the NHS, I am not particularly negative. In Leics things are noticeably better than 5 years ago, with much better co operation between the CCGs and the acute Trust, though possibly we are a bit out of the usual. Certain other trends such as the dumbibg down of medical and nursing training worry me more.

    Hope your results prove everything is a false alarm.

  • Options
    SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,650
    Cam booed by pensioners,the group most protected by this government.

    Is this due to swingback?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    SMukesh said:

    Cam booed by pensioners,the group most protected by this government.

    Is this due to swingback?

    Meanwhile, Ed didn't even turn up!
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    @Antifrank The DUP are impressive negotiators, they have potential deals lined up with UKIP, Lab, Con and have arranged some nice moves with the UUP to their mutual benefit in NI.

    I seem to recall that in the aftermath of the collapse of Robert Maxwell's empire it emerged that he had apparently sold the Berlitz business to three different buyers. The DUP seem to be attempting the same stunt.

    Labour, the Conservatives and the UUP are already grimly aware of the need to count their fingers when shaking on a deal with the DUP. I'm not sure that UKIP have yet realised that.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    Meanwhile, Ed didn't even turn up!

    Ed couldn't have all of them ejected from the hall for heckling...
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Labour NHS poster, someone (sorry can't remember who) said on the previous thread that Labour were obviously using a stock photo.

    I'm a bit puzzled by this. Does the NHS sell our X-rays to photographic libraries? I'm pretty certain that I've never consented to any of my medical information being sold to a commercial organisation for advertising purposes. Or is this an X-ray from overseas?

    How can a patient's X-ray become a stock photo without the patient explicitly consenting? And if they did not consent, aren't there other obvious questions to be asked about a political party's use of such material than what the X-ray reveals?

    Incidentally on the NHS I was at my local hospital this morning for some tests (after the GP's worried look yesterday, I'm rather hoping he's hopelessly wrong on what might be wrong with me) and it has clearly had a lot of money spent on it with more being spent and not just on fripperies but on real improvements. Very impressive. As was the service. I've also noted that my GP practice has improved significantly.

    Purely anecdotal I know and I realise that BJO and Foxnsox have the insider's view but I find it hard to reconcile what I see as a patient with the doom'n'gloom I read in the papers about the NHS.

    I imagine graphic designers just go to Getty Images to satisfy their x-ray requirements so no obvious reason to think it's a UK patient.

    I hope the scare is just a scare.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    Cameron avoided the debates to do Q&A's didn't he?

    Hasn't done all that well today...

    'The speech passed without incident. His problems began during the subsequent Q&A, just as he was breezing his way through an answer about NHS agency staff.

    “Excuse me!” cut in the man who’d asked him about it. “You haven’t answered my question!”

    Mildly startled – as if a sleepy old tabby he was stroking had hissed at him – Mr Cameron tried not answering the question in a different way. But the heckle seemed to have awoken something in the audience. There was now a growing hubbub of unrest.

    “Rubbish!” shouted a voice. “Answer the question!” harrumphed another. “I am, sir!” blurted the Prime Minister. The audience didn’t seem convinced. A man with white hair sat irately shaking his stick.

    “Look, I’ll be frank,” said Mr Cameron, switching tone from “harassed customer services” to “paternal authority”. “If you’re not satisfied with how elderly people are being looked after by this Government, don’t blame other ministers – blame me.”

    “We are!” shouted a man in the audience. The hubbub intensified.

    Normally Mr Cameron does Q&A sessions in offices and factories, where audiences are on their best behaviour because their bosses are present. Unfortunately for him, retirees don’t have bosses.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11492472/Sketch-You-havent-answered-my-question-David-Cameron-gets-mugged-by-pensioners.html
  • Options
    SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,650
    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    Cam booed by pensioners,the group most protected by this government.

    Is this due to swingback?

    Meanwhile, Ed didn't even turn up!
    I guess there`s only so much sound-bites they could out up with.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    Cam booed by pensioners,the group most protected by this government.

    Is this due to swingback?

    Meanwhile, Ed didn't even turn up!
    Was he invited :) ?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    edited March 2015
    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    Cam booed by pensioners,the group most protected by this government.

    Is this due to swingback?

    Meanwhile, Ed didn't even turn up!
    I guess there`s only so much sound-bites they could out up with.
    No, they invited him IIRC.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    felix said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    Just because some voters are living in cloud-cuckoo land, that doesn't necessarily mean that a political party claiming it is fit to be in power in six weeks' time would be well-advised to agree with them. Quite apart from anything else, politics doesn't end on May 8th 2015. There's a risk, after all, that Labour might actually win the election - and then what would they do?
    "Some voters" meaning three-quarters of the public?

    What Labour could do if they win the election is to do what governments have done for something like 100 of the last 150 years (including most of Thatcher's years in office, and indeed the past 5 years): not worry about running a relatively modest deficit, watch the sky NOT fall in despite some initial hysterical scaremongering, and instead focus on looking after the British people and the public services they depend on.
    Thick, thick, thick - we have zero inflation and are subject to EU rules on deficits not to mention the IMF etc, - there is no way we can borrow yet more to fund social services for the idle and feckless. You really need to grow up, or better still, move to Greece and try some real austerity.
    The Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union governs what deficits Eurozone countries are allowed to run. The United Kingdom is not a signatory to the treaty. (Some other non-Eurozone EU countries, such as Denmark, are signatories.) As we are not a signatory, there are no possible sanctions on the UK from the EU should we choose to run a 25% budget deficit.

    Likewise, our membership of the IMF carries no treaty bound obligations regarding deficit levels.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    isam said:

    Cameron avoided the debates to do Q&A's didn't he?

    Hasn't done all that well today...

    'The speech passed without incident. His problems began during the subsequent Q&A, just as he was breezing his way through an answer about NHS agency staff.

    “Excuse me!” cut in the man who’d asked him about it. “You haven’t answered my question!”

    Mildly startled – as if a sleepy old tabby he was stroking had hissed at him – Mr Cameron tried not answering the question in a different way. But the heckle seemed to have awoken something in the audience. There was now a growing hubbub of unrest.

    “Rubbish!” shouted a voice. “Answer the question!” harrumphed another. “I am, sir!” blurted the Prime Minister. The audience didn’t seem convinced. A man with white hair sat irately shaking his stick.

    “Look, I’ll be frank,” said Mr Cameron, switching tone from “harassed customer services” to “paternal authority”. “If you’re not satisfied with how elderly people are being looked after by this Government, don’t blame other ministers – blame me.”

    “We are!” shouted a man in the audience. The hubbub intensified.

    Normally Mr Cameron does Q&A sessions in offices and factories, where audiences are on their best behaviour because their bosses are present. Unfortunately for him, retirees don’t have bosses.'
    SHORT LINK


    Labour party activist like last time?

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    Cam booed by pensioners,the group most protected by this government.

    Is this due to swingback?

    Meanwhile, Ed didn't even turn up!
    I guess there`s only so much sound-bites they could out up with.
    No, they invited him IIRC.
    Bloody Hell - ignoring pensioners... "Brave"
  • Options
    SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,650
    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    Cam booed by pensioners,the group most protected by this government.

    Is this due to swingback?

    Meanwhile, Ed didn't even turn up!
    I guess there`s only so much sound-bites they could out up with.
    No, they invited him IIRC.
    I don`t know if Ed is going or not but the shine is starting to come off one person at the moment and it`s not Ed.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    Cam booed by pensioners,the group most protected by this government.

    Is this due to swingback?

    Meanwhile, Ed didn't even turn up!
    I guess there`s only so much sound-bites they could out up with.
    No, they invited him IIRC.
    I don`t know if Ed is going or not but the shine is starting to come off one person at the moment and it`s not Ed.
    Didn't realise Ed had shine. Now waiting for someone to make the obvious joke....
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997

    Danny565 said:

    That still doesn't address why, if it's so impossible to "live on borrowing", why RIGHT NOW we're "living on borrowing" and the sky ISN'T falling in.

    Have you ever tried renewing an overdraft using that logic?
    Borrowing is a good thing as long as it is sustainable. Without borrowing there is no saving. It should put funds to better use if properly managed.

    This is what blue chip companies do that maintain a constant debt/equity gearing and borrow every year. It makes sense if you are growing and enables you to grow faster if you invest it in growth assets.

    If GDP is growing at 3% pa, then government can run a deficit of 3% a year (i.e., borrow £60bn a year) and maintain a constant debt/GDP ratio. There is nothing admirable or desirable about eliminating the deficit if the economy is growing. But it should be invested in the future (education, R&D, infrastructure) rather than consumed now.
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Andrew Cooper on r2 at lunch time: the issue is not really whether you want Cameron to be PM for 5 years but whether you want Miliband to be PM for 5 minutes. Harsh, but fair.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Alex Salmond has now made explicit what everyone had assumed: the SNP would vote down a Conservative Queen Speech.

    http://may2015.com/featured/exclusive-alex-salmond-says-snp-would-vote-down-the-tories-in-a-queens-speech/
  • Options
    madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    Danny565 said:

    felix said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    "BES data, adds Professor Green, shows most voters think cuts in public spending have gone too far. And only 25% consider it ‘absolutely necessary’ to cut the deficit."

    It's a good job Labour haven't decided to swallow the whole Tory narrative on the deficit/cuts that only 25% of the public agree with, then. (/sarcasm)

    Just because some voters are living in cloud-cuckoo land, that doesn't necessarily mean that a political party claiming it is fit to be in power in six weeks' time would be well-advised to agree with them. Quite apart from anything else, politics doesn't end on May 8th 2015. There's a risk, after all, that Labour might actually win the election - and then what would they do?
    "Some voters" meaning three-quarters of the public?

    What Labour could do if they win the election is to do what governments have done for something like 100 of the last 150 years (including most of Thatcher's years in office, and indeed the past 5 years): not worry about running a relatively modest deficit, watch the sky NOT fall in despite some initial hysterical scaremongering, and instead focus on looking after the British people and the public services they depend on.
    Thick, thick, thick - we have zero inflation and are subject to EU rules on deficits not to mention the IMF etc, - there is no way we can borrow yet more to fund social services for the idle and feckless. You really need to grow up, or better still, move to Greece and try some real austerity.
    Then how come we're able to borrow RIGHT NOW? Why are MORE cuts necessary when there are no problems securing borrowing for the level of current spending? And I'm afraid I'm not going to buy that the markets have some supreme faith in the mythical powers of George Osborne which means they can swallow fiscal policies that they wouldn't swallow from other governments pursuing the same ones.
    You have obviously never tried to persuade a bank manager to extend your overdraft when you desperately need it, I assume.

    The rule of the world is simple:
    People lend you money when they are sure you can afford it and will pay it back.
    When times are hard and your lenders see that, they want you to repay.

    Read about Jim Callaghan and how he got on with the IMF: the net result was an actual reduction in spending on the NHS...
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Barnesian said:

    Danny565 said:

    That still doesn't address why, if it's so impossible to "live on borrowing", why RIGHT NOW we're "living on borrowing" and the sky ISN'T falling in.

    Have you ever tried renewing an overdraft using that logic?
    Borrowing is a good thing as long as it is sustainable. Without borrowing there is no saving. It should put funds to better use if properly managed.

    This is what blue chip companies do that maintain a constant debt/equity gearing and borrow every year. It makes sense if you are growing and enables you to grow faster if you invest it in growth assets.

    If GDP is growing at 3% pa, then government can run a deficit of 3% a year (i.e., borrow £60bn a year) and maintain a constant debt/GDP ratio. There is nothing admirable or desirable about eliminating the deficit if the economy is growing. But it should be invested in the future (education, R&D, infrastructure) rather than consumed now.
    Reducing the debt pile does have advantages- lower interest payments. I think we are spending half as much as we do on education on our interest.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    Bloody Hell - ignoring pensioners... "Brave"

    They sent Liz Kendall instead. Some would say that was a major improvement
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    Barnesian said:

    Danny565 said:

    That still doesn't address why, if it's so impossible to "live on borrowing", why RIGHT NOW we're "living on borrowing" and the sky ISN'T falling in.

    Have you ever tried renewing an overdraft using that logic?
    Borrowing is a good thing as long as it is sustainable. Without borrowing there is no saving. It should put funds to better use if properly managed.

    This is what blue chip companies do that maintain a constant debt/equity gearing and borrow every year. It makes sense if you are growing and enables you to grow faster if you invest it in growth assets.

    If GDP is growing at 3% pa, then government can run a deficit of 3% a year (i.e., borrow £60bn a year) and maintain a constant debt/GDP ratio. There is nothing admirable or desirable about eliminating the deficit if the economy is growing. But it should be invested in the future (education, R&D, infrastructure) rather than consumed now.
    The maths are slightly more complicated than that :-)

    If your debt-to=GDP is 50%, and you run a 3% deficit, and growth is 3% and inflation 1%, then your nominal GDP increases 4% and therefore reduces your debt-to-GDP to 48%. If you then add on the 3% deficit, you get to 51% of GDP.

    You need to consider both the starting debt level and the underlying level of inflation.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    antifrank said:

    Alex Salmond has now made explicit what everyone had assumed: the SNP would vote down a Conservative Queen Speech.

    http://may2015.com/featured/exclusive-alex-salmond-says-snp-would-vote-down-the-tories-in-a-queens-speech/

    Plaid Cymru would too I assume.

    Also the Greens.

    SDLP ?
  • Options
    SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,650
    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    Cam booed by pensioners,the group most protected by this government.

    Is this due to swingback?

    Meanwhile, Ed didn't even turn up!
    I guess there`s only so much sound-bites they could out up with.
    No, they invited him IIRC.
    I don`t know if Ed is going or not but the shine is starting to come off one person at the moment and it`s not Ed.
    Didn't realise Ed had shine. Now waiting for someone to make the obvious joke....
    The final joke will be on the 7th of May,mate.
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    antifrank said:

    Alex Salmond has now made explicit what everyone had assumed: the SNP would vote down a Conservative Queen Speech.

    http://may2015.com/featured/exclusive-alex-salmond-says-snp-would-vote-down-the-tories-in-a-queens-speech/

    So you can add SNP and Lab seats together, effectively, in terms of who forms the government
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027

    isam said:

    Cameron avoided the debates to do Q&A's didn't he?

    Hasn't done all that well today...

    'The speech passed without incident. His problems began during the subsequent Q&A, just as he was breezing his way through an answer about NHS agency staff.

    “Excuse me!” cut in the man who’d asked him about it. “You haven’t answered my question!”

    Mildly startled – as if a sleepy old tabby he was stroking had hissed at him – Mr Cameron tried not answering the question in a different way. But the heckle seemed to have awoken something in the audience. There was now a growing hubbub of unrest.

    “Rubbish!” shouted a voice. “Answer the question!” harrumphed another. “I am, sir!” blurted the Prime Minister. The audience didn’t seem convinced. A man with white hair sat irately shaking his stick.

    “Look, I’ll be frank,” said Mr Cameron, switching tone from “harassed customer services” to “paternal authority”. “If you’re not satisfied with how elderly people are being looked after by this Government, don’t blame other ministers – blame me.”

    “We are!” shouted a man in the audience. The hubbub intensified.

    Normally Mr Cameron does Q&A sessions in offices and factories, where audiences are on their best behaviour because their bosses are present. Unfortunately for him, retirees don’t have bosses.'
    SHORT LINK


    Labour party activist like last time?

    No; someone who talks to their working (or trying to work) grandchildren!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    edited March 2015
    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    Cam booed by pensioners,the group most protected by this government.

    Is this due to swingback?

    Meanwhile, Ed didn't even turn up!
    I guess there`s only so much sound-bites they could out up with.
    No, they invited him IIRC.
    I don`t know if Ed is going or not but the shine is starting to come off one person at the moment and it`s not Ed.
    Didn't realise Ed had shine. Now waiting for someone to make the obvious joke....
    The final joke will be on the 7th of May,mate.
    Yes, when EICIPM. We'll be a laughing stock around the world ;)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    Anything less than that from Salmond and he could kiss Motherwell and the rest of the west of Scotland goodbye.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,883
    isam said:

    Cameron avoided the debates to do Q&A's didn't he?

    Hasn't done all that well today...

    'The speech passed without incident. His problems began during the subsequent Q&A, just as he was breezing his way through an answer about NHS agency staff.

    “Excuse me!” cut in the man who’d asked him about it. “You haven’t answered my question!”

    Mildly startled – as if a sleepy old tabby he was stroking had hissed at him – Mr Cameron tried not answering the question in a different way. But the heckle seemed to have awoken something in the audience. There was now a growing hubbub of unrest.

    “Rubbish!” shouted a voice. “Answer the question!” harrumphed another. “I am, sir!” blurted the Prime Minister. The audience didn’t seem convinced. A man with white hair sat irately shaking his stick.

    “Look, I’ll be frank,” said Mr Cameron, switching tone from “harassed customer services” to “paternal authority”. “If you’re not satisfied with how elderly people are being looked after by this Government, don’t blame other ministers – blame me.”

    “We are!” shouted a man in the audience. The hubbub intensified.

    Normally Mr Cameron does Q&A sessions in offices and factories, where audiences are on their best behaviour because their bosses are present. Unfortunately for him, retirees don’t have bosses.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11492472/Sketch-You-havent-answered-my-question-David-Cameron-gets-mugged-by-pensioners.html

    I see the bloke who asked the original question raised the exact point that I have been banging on about for months. Drs and nurses leaving the NHS in massive numbers and only working via agencies at highly inflated rates.

    5 years of pay freezes means people aren't prepared to work for NHS rates when can earn double prostituting their labour via agencies.

    Tory solution 5 more years of pay freezes. They still don't get it.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Freggles said:

    antifrank said:

    Alex Salmond has now made explicit what everyone had assumed: the SNP would vote down a Conservative Queen Speech.

    http://may2015.com/featured/exclusive-alex-salmond-says-snp-would-vote-down-the-tories-in-a-queens-speech/

    So you can add SNP and Lab seats together, effectively, in terms of who forms the government
    Expect more Salmond/Miliband posters.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    antifrank said:

    Alex Salmond has now made explicit what everyone had assumed: the SNP would vote down a Conservative Queen Speech.

    http://may2015.com/featured/exclusive-alex-salmond-says-snp-would-vote-down-the-tories-in-a-queens-speech/

    Poor old Nicola - leader in name only..

  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Then how come we're able to borrow RIGHT NOW? Why are MORE cuts necessary when there are no problems securing borrowing for the level of current spending? And I'm afraid I'm not going to buy that the markets have some supreme faith in the mythical powers of George Osborne which means they can swallow fiscal policies that they wouldn't swallow from other governments pursuing the same ones.

    Err, but you were suggesting that a future Labour-led government should pursue completely different policies.
    I'm saying that spending/the deficit should be kept at roughly the same level as now (a level which "the markets" are perfectly happy with), rather than cut back further unnecessarily as both the Tories and Labour are insisting on.
    Money that's spent paying interest on the national debt could be spent on more worthwhile projects. Why would one want to increase these interest payments?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Freggles said:

    antifrank said:

    Alex Salmond has now made explicit what everyone had assumed: the SNP would vote down a Conservative Queen Speech.

    http://may2015.com/featured/exclusive-alex-salmond-says-snp-would-vote-down-the-tories-in-a-queens-speech/

    So you can add SNP and Lab seats together, effectively, in terms of who forms the government
    Not quite. The SNP have not committed to vote on every English-only matter. So that bloc may have a majority for UK matters but not for English-only matters. That would suit the SNP very nicely indeed, but not so much Labour.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Freggles said:

    So you can add SNP and Lab seats together, effectively, in terms of who forms the government

    Confirms the Tory campaign in England. A vote for Ed in England is a vote for Alex, his puppetmaster.

    Over to you, Ed.
  • Options
    SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,650
    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    Cam booed by pensioners,the group most protected by this government.

    Is this due to swingback?

    Meanwhile, Ed didn't even turn up!
    I guess there`s only so much sound-bites they could out up with.
    No, they invited him IIRC.
    I don`t know if Ed is going or not but the shine is starting to come off one person at the moment and it`s not Ed.
    Didn't realise Ed had shine. Now waiting for someone to make the obvious joke....
    The final joke will be on the 7th of May,mate.
    Yes, when EICIPM. We'll be a laughing stock around the world ;)
    Sounds like you have given up already.Chin up.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855

    isam said:

    Cameron avoided the debates to do Q&A's didn't he?

    Hasn't done all that well today...

    'The speech passed without incident. His problems began during the subsequent Q&A, just as he was breezing his way through an answer about NHS agency staff.

    “Excuse me!” cut in the man who’d asked him about it. “You haven’t answered my question!”

    Mildly startled – as if a sleepy old tabby he was stroking had hissed at him – Mr Cameron tried not answering the question in a different way. But the heckle seemed to have awoken something in the audience. There was now a growing hubbub of unrest.

    “Rubbish!” shouted a voice. “Answer the question!” harrumphed another. “I am, sir!” blurted the Prime Minister. The audience didn’t seem convinced. A man with white hair sat irately shaking his stick.

    “Look, I’ll be frank,” said Mr Cameron, switching tone from “harassed customer services” to “paternal authority”. “If you’re not satisfied with how elderly people are being looked after by this Government, don’t blame other ministers – blame me.”

    “We are!” shouted a man in the audience. The hubbub intensified.

    Normally Mr Cameron does Q&A sessions in offices and factories, where audiences are on their best behaviour because their bosses are present. Unfortunately for him, retirees don’t have bosses.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11492472/Sketch-You-havent-answered-my-question-David-Cameron-gets-mugged-by-pensioners.html

    I see the bloke who asked the original question raised the exact point that I have been banging on about for months. Drs and nurses leaving the NHS in massive numbers and only working via agencies at highly inflated rates.

    5 years of pay freezes means people aren't prepared to work for NHS rates when can earn double prostituting their labour via agencies.

    Tory solution 5 more years of pay freezes. They still don't get it.
    Doctors and nurses aren't poorly paid.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    Poor old Nicola - leader in name only..

    ...but, but, but, the SNPers were telling us only yesterday that Alex had a low profile, didn't get involved, was content for Nicola to have all the limelight.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    TGOHF said:

    antifrank said:

    Alex Salmond has now made explicit what everyone had assumed: the SNP would vote down a Conservative Queen Speech.

    http://may2015.com/featured/exclusive-alex-salmond-says-snp-would-vote-down-the-tories-in-a-queens-speech/

    Poor old Nicola - leader in name only..

    Except it is exactly the same as what Nicola has been saying ?

    Anyway I think it backs up a point I made - Labour is more likely to put the Conservatives in power than the SNP, PC and Greens are. Specifically some of their backbenchers abstaining on a Tory Queen's speech...
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    Freggles said:

    So you can add SNP and Lab seats together, effectively, in terms of who forms the government

    Confirms the Tory campaign in England. A vote for Ed in England is a vote for Alex, his puppetmaster.

    Over to you, Ed.
    Missed this poster - featuring Eck as the eyes for pies piper ?

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/03/tories-unveil-poster-ed-miliband-dancing-alex-salmond-calling-tune
  • Options
    Stab me.

    Another thread confirming the Tories can't win here.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    antifrank said:

    Freggles said:

    antifrank said:

    Alex Salmond has now made explicit what everyone had assumed: the SNP would vote down a Conservative Queen Speech.

    http://may2015.com/featured/exclusive-alex-salmond-says-snp-would-vote-down-the-tories-in-a-queens-speech/

    So you can add SNP and Lab seats together, effectively, in terms of who forms the government
    Not quite. The SNP have not committed to vote on every English-only matter. So that bloc may have a majority for UK matters but not for English-only matters. That would suit the SNP very nicely indeed, but not so much Labour.
    Hmmmph... I backed LAB-SNP & LAB-LD-SNP... Looks like they are well underwater now on a technicality (I was warned)

    On Lab minority too so prepare for 5 more years of DC!
  • Options
    SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,650
    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Cameron avoided the debates to do Q&A's didn't he?

    Hasn't done all that well today...

    'The speech passed without incident. His problems began during the subsequent Q&A, just as he was breezing his way through an answer about NHS agency staff.

    “Excuse me!” cut in the man who’d asked him about it. “You haven’t answered my question!”

    Mildly startled – as if a sleepy old tabby he was stroking had hissed at him – Mr Cameron tried not answering the question in a different way. But the heckle seemed to have awoken something in the audience. There was now a growing hubbub of unrest.

    “Rubbish!” shouted a voice. “Answer the question!” harrumphed another. “I am, sir!” blurted the Prime Minister. The audience didn’t seem convinced. A man with white hair sat irately shaking his stick.

    “Look, I’ll be frank,” said Mr Cameron, switching tone from “harassed customer services” to “paternal authority”. “If you’re not satisfied with how elderly people are being looked after by this Government, don’t blame other ministers – blame me.”

    “We are!” shouted a man in the audience. The hubbub intensified.

    Normally Mr Cameron does Q&A sessions in offices and factories, where audiences are on their best behaviour because their bosses are present. Unfortunately for him, retirees don’t have bosses.'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11492472/Sketch-You-havent-answered-my-question-David-Cameron-gets-mugged-by-pensioners.html

    I see the bloke who asked the original question raised the exact point that I have been banging on about for months. Drs and nurses leaving the NHS in massive numbers and only working via agencies at highly inflated rates.

    5 years of pay freezes means people aren't prepared to work for NHS rates when can earn double prostituting their labour via agencies.

    Tory solution 5 more years of pay freezes. They still don't get it.
    Doctors and nurses aren't poorly paid.
    Have you ever done a nurses` job?I wouldn`t do it for all the money in the world.
This discussion has been closed.