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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What will be Ed Miliband’s First Question in this week’s PM

SystemSystem Posts: 11,704
edited March 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What will be Ed Miliband’s First Question in this week’s PMQs?

Including today’s PMQs, there are four PMQs left before the general election, the one in a fortnight’s time will be drowned out by the budget that follows on from that, and the final one will be during  the defacto election campaign.

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    First ..... again!
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    FPT:

    Get your money off UKIP. Farage has bottled it......

    UKIP's Farage rejects 'arbitrary' immigration targets

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31722779

    It does seem an uncharacteristically sensibłe view - can we have the populist Nigel back?
    He is trying to ride two horses, in exactly the same way we were saying that Dave can't. Don't know if Nige can pull if off yet either, but its worth a try... a certain amount of populist ranting for the benefit of WVM and some sotto voce sensible qualification of those comments for his geriatric Tories.
  • Options
    I see Betfair has had an attack of "Ladbrokitis" by introducing into its repertoire of betting markets what I refer to as a "Mugs' List"
    Tailor made that is for mug punters in that one cannot be sure that ANY of the issues listed will be raised by Miliband in his first question at PMQs and in such circumstances, the bookie would simply pocket the entire pool ...... nice work if you can get it and little wonder that Betfair decided to expand its operations to include fixed odds betting, thereby competing head on with the likes of Shadsy and his masters.
    Such Mug Lists should always be avoided in my opinion unless and until they include a final category described as "None of the above".
    If absolutely forced to choose a category, I would agree with TSE that Immigration is probably the best bet, closely followed imho by Housing (or rather the lack/expense thereof). Most of the other picks are total non-starters.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    I think the 4/1 on tuition fees is a good bet. That had been Ed's big policy this week and he'll want to get a response out of Cameron that will be used during the campaign. LAB wants to make this a dividing line for a whole series of reasons. The generation divide over the protection of pensioners' could have resonance.

    I'm having short break in France at moment.
  • Options
    Judging by the prominence of Sporting's advertising immediately above the posting box of every thread on PB.com at present, this spread-betting firm must be paying OGH handsomely for the privilege. Good for him and good for Sporting in having comfortably out-manoeuvred the bigger and uglier betting firms in achieving what in betting parlance can be described as something of a coup.
    We PBers are set to benefit also from the GE prize competion(s) which are being sponsored by Sporting.
  • Options
    I see you're up early for the coffee and croissants Mike!
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    I'm not sure immigration is such an obvious choice - it opens up two lines of rebuttal from Cameron - Labour's immigration record and the booming economy, sucking workers (employment stats too) in....

    I think Miliband will try to breathe fresh life into his 'Tuition Fees cut for rich graduates funded by pensioner middle income earners, though that too is not without its front bench splits challenges.
  • Options
    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited March 2015
    Interesting to see that 2015 UK Parliamentary Election Forecast currently has the Tories no fewer than 12 seats ahead of Labour (287 vs 275), only a matter of days after the red team were marginally ahead. Clearly there has been something of a shift, although whether and for how long this continues remains to be seen. Stephen Fisher's GE Seats projection on Friday may prove interesting. I for one was despairing of the Tories last week when he showed them declining to an 11 month low.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    First ..... again!

    I leave the computer for thirty minutes and this happens! Woe is me.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Again disappointed that the much-trailed AV thread has again been postponed.

    On topic - any chance of an accumulator for a combo-question?
  • Options
    "Again disappointed that the much-trailed AV thread has again been postponed."

    Seeking a cure for your insomnia are you Rob?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    "Again disappointed that the much-trailed AV thread has again been postponed."

    Seeking a cure for your insomnia are you Rob?

    Just teasing TSE ;) The amount that thread has been hyped, it better be a corker :p
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    Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    edited March 2015
    Libdems down to three seats with baxtering the Yougov poll. Mind you it says UKIP zero too so UNS is probably not the best of references at the moment. But if they get only 5% of votes, even if a good chunk of their constituents do think their local MP walks on water, its going to be minibus time.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited March 2015
    Morning all

    Phone Hacking 10/1 - The likelihood of Ed, highlighting the Mirror Group hacking scandal and by association the editor of the day, are pretty remote imho.

    Tuition Fees, as Ed's pet project seems likely, and possibly Russia if Ed is wearing his statesman's hat and not the usual school cap.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    On topic from the options - there is no such thing as "Scottish Oil".
    It's UK oil.
  • Options

    Libdems down to three seats with baxtering the Yougov poll. Mind you it says UKIP zero too so UNS is probably not the best of references at the moment. But if they get only 5% of votes, even if a good chunk of their constituents do think their local MP walks on water, its going to be minibus time.

    The traditional currency here on PB.com is London black cabs ..... minibus is such an inprecise term, depending on how mini is mini. Let's assume a boys' rugby team/girls' hockey team so 15 persons maximum including substitutes and teacher/driver so that would equate to 3 London black cabs in MartinDaySpeak.
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Moving average chart of the 100 most recent YouGov polls. Click to enlarge...

    Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    BBC ‘top story’ - Workers' pay 'below pre-crisis level'

    Cost of living/living wage @12/1 – Ed might want to avoid this topic unless it is to congratulate the Coalition.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31711854
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    scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    GeoffM

    Actually there is - see Continental Shelf Jurisdiction Order 1968 or read my old Professsor Alec Kemp's official history of North Sea Oil or indeed read anything at all before you post.

    There already is a legally based Scottish sector of the North Sea and , when Scotland becomes independent, there will be the legislative base to run the basin properly that is more like Norway than Westminster.
  • Options
    GeoffM said:

    On topic from the options - there is no such thing as "Scottish Oil".
    It's UK oil.

    Careful Geoff - it's 200+ years of English fracking gas reserves, remember.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    GeoffM said:

    On topic from the options - there is no such thing as "Scottish Oil".
    It's UK oil.

    Careful Geoff - it's 200+ years of English fracking gas reserves, remember.
    Great point. Scrub my previous trolling. Territorial integrity and all that!
  • Options
    scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    Peter

    How is all that fracking going again in the North West or was it the North East of England or is it just far enough away from Putney as not to impact on house prices?
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    First Saturday ARSE with added APLOMB & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown

    4444 minutes
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    scotslass said:

    Peter

    How is all that fracking going again in the North West or was it the North East of England or is it just far enough away from Putney as not to impact on house prices?

    Last time I looked, they're not yet fracking in my back garden, but I understand there's plenty of fracking potential in S.E. England.
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Gadfly said:

    Moving average chart of the 100 most recent YouGov polls. Click to enlarge...

    Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire

    It's the return of the green tories
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Comes to something when the top bet is children's Issues. I mean there is little else that in one way or another is not dangerous for them to raise. It will be immigration though as the government for one reason and another has missed that target so are a little open on that issue. Mind you never underestimate miliband to see an open goal in front and then with huge and devastating accuracy.........boot the ball into the stands.
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    scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    Today's YouGov cross break from Scotland hasUKIPers on 6 per cent - yesterday's on 0 per cent: that's correct a big round zero. Does this indicate a major surge to 6 or that the truth is out there at 3 or that verysmall numbers are difficult to measure!

    Actually it tells you to use 5 or ten sub sample averages on which the SNP are a country mile ahead of the rest.
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    Moses_ said:

    Comes to something when the top bet is children's Issues. I mean there is little else that in one way or another is not dangerous for them to raise. It will be immigration though as the government for one reason and another has missed that target so are a little open on that issue. Mind you never underestimate miliband to see an open goal in front and then with huge and devastating accuracy.........boot the ball into the stands.

    Quite right - so EdM's question is set to be how did the two Daves (Cameron & Beckham), etc. conspire to mess up England's bid for the 2018 World Cup tournament?
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    JackW said:

    First Saturday ARSE with added APLOMB & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown

    4444 minutes

    Letting it all hang out at the weekend Jack?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: Household incomes returning to pre-crisis levels, more or less. Labour's campaign theme for March? Cost of living crisis.
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    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191

    Gadfly said:

    Moving average chart of the 100 most recent YouGov polls. Click to enlarge...

    Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire

    It's the return of the green tories
    It certainly conveys that impression. Does it relate to Natalie's car crash I wonder?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    scotslass said:

    Today's YouGov cross break from Scotland hasUKIPers on 6 per cent - yesterday's on 0 per cent: that's correct a big round zero. Does this indicate a major surge to 6 or that the truth is out there at 3 or that verysmall numbers are difficult to measure!

    Actually it tells you to use 5 or ten sub sample averages on which the SNP are a country mile ahead of the rest.

    SNP starting to catch Lib Dem in the north.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I agree with our host. Anyone drawing up a grid would want to press home the chosen campaign theme of the week. For Ed Miliband that's tuition fees. 4/1 is probably decent value.

    But I don't like playing markets like this, so I'm not betting.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Has our very own Foxinsox sunk the Lib Dems - I reckon if he'd pushed Lib Dem in the sample they may have been looking at the sunlit uplands of 6%.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    antifrank said:

    I agree with our host. Anyone drawing up a grid would want to press home the chosen campaign theme of the week. For Ed Miliband that's tuition fees. 4/1 is probably decent value.

    But I don't like playing markets like this, so I'm not betting.

    Are the Lib Dems heading for a ring of fire ?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Not saying Yougov is wrong, but that's quite some upweighting on the Conservative % when the 2010 VI was as close as damnit to the correct score.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967

    Gadfly said:

    Moving average chart of the 100 most recent YouGov polls. Click to enlarge...

    Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire

    It's the return of the green tories
    The Conservatives' 5-day lead with Yougov is 1.2%. Yougov is now in line with the phone polls (albeit with a highish UKIP score).

    Buy, without wishing to spoil the party, it could be a blip, and we have TNS to come.
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    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited March 2015
    Gadfly said:

    Gadfly said:

    Moving average chart of the 100 most recent YouGov polls. Click to enlarge...

    Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire

    It's the return of the green tories
    It certainly conveys that impression. Does it relate to Natalie's car crash I wonder?
    The big puzzle is just where are the lost Green votes going - seemingly not to either Labour or the LibDems and surely not to the Tories, so where? Will not vote I guess.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    Gadfly said:

    Gadfly said:

    Moving average chart of the 100 most recent YouGov polls. Click to enlarge...

    Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire

    It's the return of the green tories
    It certainly conveys that impression. Does it relate to Natalie's car crash I wonder?
    The big puzzle is just where are the lost Green votes going - seemingly not to either Labour or the LibDems and surely not to the Tories, so where?
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/03/04/conservatives-lead-2/

    Nowhere.

    Greens on a steady ~ 6% or thereabouts.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Judging by the crosstabs, Labour will do better in the South than in Scotland.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    YG LD 2010 VI continues to be all over the place.

    Last three days LAB/LD split has been: 30/28; 23/29; 34/21. So is Labour losing 2010 LDs support or not?

    The Scottish subsample is more stable:SNP/SLAB: 38/28; 44/25[ 40/27
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    Just clocking on and a couple of observations:

    LibDems 5% - hahahahahaha....The physical body of their remaining MPs after the GE will have outlived their party's purpose and redundant philiosophy. Zombies. A hard to remove stain in the political toilet bowl.

    Whatever Ed goes with at PMQs Dave will have some solid ammo to shoot back with. Tuition fees paid for with pension raids? Universally ripped apart in the press. And whatever he goes with we're going to hear from Dave about the Mirror hacks, Rotherham, no economic policy, 'bill somebody' type quips.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    I agree with our host. Anyone drawing up a grid would want to press home the chosen campaign theme of the week. For Ed Miliband that's tuition fees. 4/1 is probably decent value.

    But I don't like playing markets like this, so I'm not betting.

    Are the Lib Dems heading for a ring of fire ?
    They're certainly going to be Hurt.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Household incomes returning to pre-crisis levels, more or less. Labour's campaign theme for March? Cost of living crisis.

    Good job there's been no inflation in the last 7 years.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @iainjwatson: Now @ukip leader Nigel Farage says no caps and targets on immigration on #r4today - but thinks numbers would be less than 50,000
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
    UKIP are pushing work visas, rather than citizenship.

    "Foreign workers classified as “highly skilled” under the new points system would be given 5-year visas, after which they would be allowed to apply for permanent leave to remain, according to UKIP.

    During the 5-year period, they would be expected to have their own health insurance, and would be barred from claiming any U.K. benefits."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/ukip-plans-points-system-benefits-ban-for-immigrants
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Gadfly said:

    Gadfly said:

    Moving average chart of the 100 most recent YouGov polls. Click to enlarge...

    Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire

    It's the return of the green tories
    It certainly conveys that impression. Does it relate to Natalie's car crash I wonder?
    The big puzzle is just where are the lost Green votes going - seemingly not to either Labour or the LibDems and surely not to the Tories, so where? Will not vote I guess.
    Depends if they were "real" green votes, of green "protest" votes to kick Dave up the arse. If they were Tories "sending a message" then they could be coming home. As I have long suggested, people put too much trust in voters not using opinion polls to send messages (ie. lying to the pollsters) when they are clearly happy to do that in real elections, at much more cost.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
    UKIP are pushing work visas, rather than citizenship.

    "Foreign workers classified as “highly skilled” under the new points system would be given 5-year visas, after which they would be allowed to apply for permanent leave to remain, according to UKIP.

    During the 5-year period, they would be expected to have their own health insurance, and would be barred from claiming any U.K. benefits."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/ukip-plans-points-system-benefits-ban-for-immigrants
    Would employers be able to pay foreign workers higher wages to compensate for this additional cost that these workers would bear?
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Now @ukip leader Nigel Farage says no caps and targets on immigration on #r4today - but thinks numbers would be less than 50,000

    So, no caps on immigration this week, criticising Enoch Powell last week.

    That's the afternoon thread sorted.

    "Have Farage and UKIP become part of the Liberal LabLibCan Metropolitan Elite with these new policies?"
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Aiannucci: UKIP were going to publish their manifesto last week. Anyone know what happened to it?

    @paulwaugh: Wonder what @Aiannucci + @mrchrisaddison make of new UKIP policy. TTOI Rise of The Nutters had an 'independent expert board' on immigration.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Now @ukip leader Nigel Farage says no caps and targets on immigration on #r4today - but thinks numbers would be less than 50,000

    So, no caps on immigration this week, criticising Enoch Powell last week.

    That's the afternoon thread sorted.

    "Have Farage and UKIP become part of the Liberal LabLibCan Metropolitan Elite with these new policies?"
    The Australian style points system gives more than twice the percapita immigration rate of the UK.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,063

    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
    UKIP are pushing work visas, rather than citizenship.

    "Foreign workers classified as “highly skilled” under the new points system would be given 5-year visas, after which they would be allowed to apply for permanent leave to remain, according to UKIP.

    During the 5-year period, they would be expected to have their own health insurance, and would be barred from claiming any U.K. benefits."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/ukip-plans-points-system-benefits-ban-for-immigrants
    I know it’s not going to happen, but just how would the lack or otherwise of health insurance work in practice? And, if a University, for example, want’s to appoint someone from outside UK to a senior position ..... which does happen ...... what about their spouse/children?
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited March 2015

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.

    I believe Australia just gives extra points in their system for shortage jobs on a list (which used to be produced centrally, but now appears to come from state capitals in the area you are looking to immigrate to), and further extra points if you already have a job offer. So the market balances itself, young skilled generally useful people get in anyway, sightly older or less qualified people in shortage professions (assuming they are professionally qualified and have appropriate experience) get the same consideration, as do even older people if they have a job offer.

  • Options
    I note that that the latest YouGov contains a subtle tribute to Leonard Nimoy.

    With 1701 respondents.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @anntreneman: Farage's goal to return immigration figures to .'normal ' is a rather inspired moment in history of fantasy politics
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited March 2015
    Sean_F said:

    Gadfly said:

    Moving average chart of the 100 most recent YouGov polls. Click to enlarge...

    Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire

    It's the return of the green tories
    The Conservatives' 5-day lead with Yougov is 1.2%. Yougov is now in line with the phone polls (albeit with a highish UKIP score).

    Buy, without wishing to spoil the party, it could be a blip, and we have TNS to come.
    Mr Cameron seems to have made a strong statement on child protection, as a response to Rotherham/ Oxford etc.

    I could see that giving a veto-gasm type polling boost. With the election approaching they could have the promised legislation as part of their election platform rather than folding the way they did with the veto.

    "...the government plans to make it a criminal offence to wilfully neglect those at risk of, and victims of, child sexual abuse.

    Social workers, education practitioners and local councillors would be covered by the sanction, which would be introduced as an extension of the crime of wilful neglect of patients by care workers in this year’s Criminal Justice and Courts Act.

    Yet these proposals are only going out to consultation. There will be further reports to come and committee recommendations sought ahead of any legislation being brought before parliament for a vote."

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/03/03/downing-street-holds-a-sex-abuse-summit-too-little-too-late-for-those-who-have-suffered-already/
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Scott_P said:

    @Aiannucci: UKIP were going to publish their manifesto last week. Anyone know what happened to it?

    Farage just said on Radio 4 that he expects to have the manifesto publishedin April, after the others have been published.

    The problem seems to be a shortage of fag packets for him to write it on.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,063

    Sean_F said:

    Gadfly said:

    Moving average chart of the 100 most recent YouGov polls. Click to enlarge...

    Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire

    It's the return of the green tories
    The Conservatives' 5-day lead with Yougov is 1.2%. Yougov is now in line with the phone polls (albeit with a highish UKIP score).

    Buy, without wishing to spoil the party, it could be a blip, and we have TNS to come.
    Mr Cameron seems to have made a strong statement on child protection, as a response to Rotherham/ Oxford etc.

    I could see that giving a veto-gasm type polling boost. With the election approaching they could have the promised legislation as part of their election platform rather than folding the way they did with the veto.

    "...the government plans to make it a criminal offence to wilfully neglect those at risk of, and victims of, child sexual abuse.

    Yet these proposals are only going out to consultation. There will be further reports to come and committee recommendations sought ahead of any legislation being brought before parliament for a vote."

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/03/03/downing-street-holds-a-sex-abuse-summit-too-little-too-late-for-those-who-have-suffered-already/
    Social workers, education practitioners and local councillors would be covered by the sanction, which would be introduced as an extension of the crime of wilful neglect of patients by care workers in this year’s Criminal Justice and Courts Act.


    Bit like FGM, then!!!!
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    ann treneman ‏@anntreneman 4m4 minutes ago

    Farage's goal to return immigration figures to .'normal ' is a rather inspired moment in history of fantasy politics
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Scott_P said:

    @Aiannucci: UKIP were going to publish their manifesto last week. Anyone know what happened to it?

    Farage just said on Radio 4 that he expects to have the manifesto publishedin April, after the others have been published.

    The problem seems to be a shortage of fag packets for him to write it on.
    Are the LDs going to have a manifesto, or will Mr Clegg just say 'trust me'?
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Now @ukip leader Nigel Farage says no caps and targets on immigration on #r4today - but thinks numbers would be less than 50,000

    So, no caps on immigration this week, criticising Enoch Powell last week.

    That's the afternoon thread sorted.

    "Have Farage and UKIP become part of the Liberal LabLibCan Metropolitan Elite with these new policies?"
    The Australian style points system gives more than twice the percapita immigration rate of the UK.

    Australia has a third the population of the UK, so two thirds of the actual immigration.

    How does that work out as immigrants per square kilometre of land (clue, Australia is 7 MILLION square metres of land, the UK is less than quarter of one million, so about a 30th of the size)
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,009
    Good morning, everyone.

    I'd go for the NHS, with Tax Avoidance second choice.

    Immigration is easier to respond to (Labour opened the floodgates, and they don't want a drastic reduction either).
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited March 2015

    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
    UKIP are pushing work visas, rather than citizenship.

    "Foreign workers classified as “highly skilled” under the new points system would be given 5-year visas, after which they would be allowed to apply for permanent leave to remain, according to UKIP.

    During the 5-year period, they would be expected to have their own health insurance, and would be barred from claiming any U.K. benefits."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/ukip-plans-points-system-benefits-ban-for-immigrants
    I know it’s not going to happen, but just how would the lack or otherwise of health insurance work in practice? And, if a University, for example, want’s to appoint someone from outside UK to a senior position ..... which does happen ...... what about their spouse/children?
    Its not a completely off the wall idea, other countries do exactly what is being proposed. You basically don't get your visa stamped until you can show your insurance documentation, and you make an "annual report" to their immigration office where you update your location details etc, and show any new insurance certificate as required, if you don't have the insurance they cancel your visa. Dependent visa are usually linked to the sponsoring visa and need to supply insurance documentation in the same way.
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191

    Scott_P said:

    @Aiannucci: UKIP were going to publish their manifesto last week. Anyone know what happened to it?

    Farage just said on Radio 4 that he expects to have the manifesto publishedin April, after the others have been published.

    The problem seems to be a shortage of fag packets for him to write it on.
    Farage has been 'found out' and I suspect he knows it.

    His false bonhomie wears thin over time.
  • Options
    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Indigo said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Now @ukip leader Nigel Farage says no caps and targets on immigration on #r4today - but thinks numbers would be less than 50,000

    So, no caps on immigration this week, criticising Enoch Powell last week.

    That's the afternoon thread sorted.

    "Have Farage and UKIP become part of the Liberal LabLibCan Metropolitan Elite with these new policies?"
    The Australian style points system gives more than twice the percapita immigration rate of the UK.

    Australia has a third the population of the UK, so two thirds of the actual immigration.

    How does that work out as immigrants per square kilometre of land (clue, Australia is 7 MILLION square metres of land, the UK is less than quarter of one million, so about a 30th of the size)
    they also have quite a lot more desert than the UK, to be fair
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    On topic - tuition fees.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited March 2015
    Aussie migration:

    The Australian Bureau of Statistics released its latest statistic report on migration, which revealed that the number of migrants has increased by 28% in the past decade, with 508,662 people moving to Australia and 264,291 leaving.

    British people continue to make up the largest portion of Australia’s overseas-born population, followed by New Zealanders, Chinese, Indians and Vietnamese.

    However, the number of British immigrants is decreasing overall and the countries with the fastest growing number of immigrants to Australia, apart from Nepal which had a very small number to begin with, are India at 12% more per year-on-year average, Pakistan (11.4%), Bangladesh (10.9%) and Sudan (9.2%).

    The number of people who live in Australia but were born in Serbia had the biggest decrease, with a 3.1% drop year on year.#

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/18/annual-migration-figures-show-twice-as-many-arrivals-as-departures
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
    UKIP are pushing work visas, rather than citizenship.

    "Foreign workers classified as “highly skilled” under the new points system would be given 5-year visas, after which they would be allowed to apply for permanent leave to remain, according to UKIP.

    During the 5-year period, they would be expected to have their own health insurance, and would be barred from claiming any U.K. benefits."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/ukip-plans-points-system-benefits-ban-for-immigrants
    Presumably they won't have to pay National Insurance contributions since they don't get anything out? This might actually work OK - young, healthy people with high earning potential. OTOH people who can get work visas already have this profile, so have they properly accounted for the damage to the National Insurance risk pool?
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Now @ukip leader Nigel Farage says no caps and targets on immigration on #r4today - but thinks numbers would be less than 50,000

    So, no caps on immigration this week, criticising Enoch Powell last week.

    That's the afternoon thread sorted.

    "Have Farage and UKIP become part of the Liberal LabLibCan Metropolitan Elite with these new policies?"
    The Australian style points system gives more than twice the percapita immigration rate of the UK.

    Australia has a third the population of the UK, so two thirds of the actual immigration.

    How does that work out as immigrants per square kilometre of land (clue, Australia is 7 MILLION square metres of land, the UK is less than quarter of one million, so about a 30th of the size)
    they also have quite a lot more desert than the UK, to be fair
    Yep, its 35% desert, so the non-desert bit is only 20 times the size of the UK.

  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    antifrank said:

    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
    UKIP are pushing work visas, rather than citizenship.

    "Foreign workers classified as “highly skilled” under the new points system would be given 5-year visas, after which they would be allowed to apply for permanent leave to remain, according to UKIP.

    During the 5-year period, they would be expected to have their own health insurance, and would be barred from claiming any U.K. benefits."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/ukip-plans-points-system-benefits-ban-for-immigrants
    Would employers be able to pay foreign workers higher wages to compensate for this additional cost that these workers would bear?
    Private health insurance is often part of employment terms now.

    I seem to recall a mini-scandal that BBC management and senior Civil Servants prefer Bupa to the NHS.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2015

    Scott_P said:

    @Aiannucci: UKIP were going to publish their manifesto last week. Anyone know what happened to it?

    Farage just said on Radio 4 that he expects to have the manifesto publishedin April, after the others have been published.

    The problem seems to be a shortage of fag packets for him to write it on.
    Are the LDs going to have a manifesto, or will Mr Clegg just say 'trust me'?
    I think the party with the hardest challenge on writing its manifesto is Labour. Ed has done a super job of keeping the party together by avoiding policy at all costs. But he's going to have to commit something to paper. It is frankly incredible that after years as leader and with only 2 months to go we still all have no idea really what a Labour administration would do. The second the Labour manifesto is published its going to upset some of their own and be wide open to attack from the other parties.
  • Options
    MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    What distinguishes the two YouGov polls this week is that the Tories have better 2010 voter retention than Labour (doesn't happen regularly I think) - which is quite something when considering Ukip and the two parties are coming from a high base and low base respectively
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Assembly members have voted against a move to ban smacking children in Wales.

    Cardiff North AM Julie Morgan had proposed a change to the Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence Bill to remove the defence of "reasonable punishment".

    It would have made it illegal in Wales for parents to hit their children but the amendment from Labour's Ms Morgan was lost by 36 votes to 16.

    The Welsh Labour government opposed the measure.

    It had rejected calls for a free vote on the issue.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31697730
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Millsy said:

    What distinguishes the two YouGov polls this week is that the Tories have better 2010 voter retention than Labour

    If you couldn't bring yourself to vote for Gordo, why on Earth would you vote for Ed?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    antifrank said:

    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
    UKIP are pushing work visas, rather than citizenship.

    "Foreign workers classified as “highly skilled” under the new points system would be given 5-year visas, after which they would be allowed to apply for permanent leave to remain, according to UKIP.

    During the 5-year period, they would be expected to have their own health insurance, and would be barred from claiming any U.K. benefits."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/ukip-plans-points-system-benefits-ban-for-immigrants
    Would employers be able to pay foreign workers higher wages to compensate for this additional cost that these workers would bear?
    Private health insurance is often part of employment terms now.

    I seem to recall a mini-scandal that BBC management and senior Civil Servants prefer Bupa to the NHS.
    Although private health insurance in the uk is a bit different from that in - say - the us. Bupa won't be paying for your treatment if you are in a car accident or have a hear attack.
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited March 2015
    Indigo..Having traveled extensively to most parts of OZ I was always surprised at just how many people actually live out in the desert areas...and make a living from it.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
    UKIP are pushing work visas, rather than citizenship.

    "Foreign workers classified as “highly skilled” under the new points system would be given 5-year visas, after which they would be allowed to apply for permanent leave to remain, according to UKIP.

    During the 5-year period, they would be expected to have their own health insurance, and would be barred from claiming any U.K. benefits."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/ukip-plans-points-system-benefits-ban-for-immigrants
    Presumably they won't have to pay National Insurance contributions since they don't get anything out? This might actually work OK - young, healthy people with high earning potential. OTOH people who can get work visas already have this profile, so have they properly accounted for the damage to the National Insurance risk pool?
    I don't understand this, if you put these five year visa people in their own category and maybe make them pay less NI, or maybe not, it might just be the price of being in that category, but anyway. That group then exists outside the current NI system, it neither increases or reduces the risk to the pool compared to a pool where those people are not in the country. You are right to suggest the risk of the pool might increase, but only because it is currently being subsidised. I believe the existence of this pool is largely a work of political fiction anyway, and the NI money now goes into the Consolidated Fund (ie. general taxation)
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sajid Javid might be peaking too soon:

    @montie: Interesting: @SajidJavid now in clear third place in future contest to succeed David Cameron http://t.co/TEBtOJFbFz http://t.co/fc5GR3CIse
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    Indigo said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Now @ukip leader Nigel Farage says no caps and targets on immigration on #r4today - but thinks numbers would be less than 50,000

    So, no caps on immigration this week, criticising Enoch Powell last week.

    That's the afternoon thread sorted.

    "Have Farage and UKIP become part of the Liberal LabLibCan Metropolitan Elite with these new policies?"
    The Australian style points system gives more than twice the percapita immigration rate of the UK.

    Australia has a third the population of the UK, so two thirds of the actual immigration.

    How does that work out as immigrants per square kilometre of land (clue, Australia is 7 MILLION square metres of land, the UK is less than quarter of one million, so about a 30th of the size)
    they also have quite a lot more desert than the UK, to be fair
    I'm not sure amount is empty space is that useful a metric. Or are we about to have open borders in Scotland?

  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727
    Patrick said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Aiannucci: UKIP were going to publish their manifesto last week. Anyone know what happened to it?

    Farage just said on Radio 4 that he expects to have the manifesto publishedin April, after the others have been published.

    The problem seems to be a shortage of fag packets for him to write it on.
    Are the LDs going to have a manifesto, or will Mr Clegg just say 'trust me'?
    I think the party with the hardest challenge on writing its manifesto is Labour. Ed has done a super job of keeping the party together by avoiding policy at all costs. But he's going to have to commit something to paper. It is frankly incredible that after years as leader and with only 2 months to go we still all have no idea really what a Labour administration would do. The second the Labour manifesto is published its going to upset some of their own and be wide open to attack from the other parties.
    True. Also UKIP will have problems and may lose some of the NOTA supporters. Are we seeing that starting already? Is the net migration limit 50,000 or is that 'arbitrary'?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31722779
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Patrick said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Aiannucci: UKIP were going to publish their manifesto last week. Anyone know what happened to it?

    Farage just said on Radio 4 that he expects to have the manifesto publishedin April, after the others have been published.

    The problem seems to be a shortage of fag packets for him to write it on.
    Are the LDs going to have a manifesto, or will Mr Clegg just say 'trust me'?
    I think the party with the hardest challenge on writing its manifesto is Labour. Ed has done a super job of keeping the party together by avoiding policy at all costs. But he's going to have to commit something to paper. It is frankly incredible that after years as leader and with only 2 months to go we still all have no idea really what a Labour administration would do. The second the Labour manifesto is published its going to upset some of their own and be wide open to attack from the other parties.
    Its entirely possible we are going to see a "warm words" manifesto, which is a load of good knocking copy against the Tories and Kippers, sounds warm and comforting, says "fairness" every third word, but doesn't actually commit them to very much.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Indigo said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Now @ukip leader Nigel Farage says no caps and targets on immigration on #r4today - but thinks numbers would be less than 50,000

    So, no caps on immigration this week, criticising Enoch Powell last week.

    That's the afternoon thread sorted.

    "Have Farage and UKIP become part of the Liberal LabLibCan Metropolitan Elite with these new policies?"
    The Australian style points system gives more than twice the percapita immigration rate of the UK.

    Australia has a third the population of the UK, so two thirds of the actual immigration.

    How does that work out as immigrants per square kilometre of land (clue, Australia is 7 MILLION square metres of land, the UK is less than quarter of one million, so about a 30th of the size)
    No. Australia has as many annual immigrants as us, but about a 1/3 of our population.

    Australia is vast, but these migrants are not living in the outback. Australia is one of the most urbanised countries in the world and migration is putting the same strain on their pre existing population as on ours.

    So far as I can see no developed economy has managed to get immigration down to the level that Farage or Cameron propose apart from Japan.

    Is the plan to ban foreign spouses of British nationals? Deport all asylum seekers on arrival irrespective of their history? Deport all students as soon as their course finishes? Refuse permission for the 10 million UK nationals living outside the country from returning. These are the sorts of policies required to get net migration down to the tens of thousands.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    edited March 2015
    antifrank said:

    Sajid Javid might be peaking too soon:

    @montie: Interesting: @SajidJavid now in clear third place in future contest to succeed David Cameron http://t.co/TEBtOJFbFz http://t.co/fc5GR3CIse

    See that only confirms to me that Tory leaders should be elected by the parliamentary party and not party activists.

    Liam Bloody Fox in 4th place!

    And Owen Paterson on 5%!
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,017

    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
    UKIP are pushing work visas, rather than citizenship.

    "Foreign workers classified as “highly skilled” under the new points system would be given 5-year visas, after which they would be allowed to apply for permanent leave to remain, according to UKIP.

    During the 5-year period, they would be expected to have their own health insurance, and would be barred from claiming any U.K. benefits."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/ukip-plans-points-system-benefits-ban-for-immigrants
    Presumably they won't have to pay National Insurance contributions since they don't get anything out? This might actually work OK - young, healthy people with high earning potential. OTOH people who can get work visas already have this profile, so have they properly accounted for the damage to the National Insurance risk pool?
    Contributionbased JSA and ESA are technically not social security benefits, so there is a possibility they would be expected to pay NI but would then not qualify for income-based benefits either before qualifying for contributionbased benefits or after they expire (1 year for ESA and 6 months for JSA). And if course would get credits towards a pension. Income-related benefits are paid for from general taxation.

    To ensure it isn't discriminatory, why not introduce a similar qualification period for Brits? It would have a nugatory effect, as most of us would qualify by the age of 5, but should mean that it could be applied to EU citizens as we would be treating them the same as UK citizens.

  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    Indigo said:

    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
    UKIP are pushing work visas, rather than citizenship.

    "Foreign workers classified as “highly skilled” under the new points system would be given 5-year visas, after which they would be allowed to apply for permanent leave to remain, according to UKIP.

    During the 5-year period, they would be expected to have their own health insurance, and would be barred from claiming any U.K. benefits."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/ukip-plans-points-system-benefits-ban-for-immigrants
    Presumably they won't have to pay National Insurance contributions since they don't get anything out? This might actually work OK - young, healthy people with high earning potential. OTOH people who can get work visas already have this profile, so have they properly accounted for the damage to the National Insurance risk pool?
    I don't understand this, if you put these five year visa people in their own category and maybe make them pay less NI, or maybe not, it might just be the price of being in that category, but anyway. That group then exists outside the current NI system, it neither increases or reduces the risk to the pool compared to a pool where those people are not in the country. You are right to suggest the risk of the pool might increase, but only because it is currently being subsidised. I believe the existence of this pool is largely a work of political fiction anyway, and the NI money now goes into the Consolidated Fund (ie. general taxation)
    I'm comparing to the situation where these immigrants are already in the country, paying NI, and getting paid out. Sorry, I only skimmed the news - is this actually a plan for additional immigration that isn't possible now?
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited March 2015

    Is the plan to ban foreign spouses of British nationals? Deport all asylum seekers on arrival irrespective of their history? Deport all students as soon as their course finishes? Refuse permission for the 10 million UK nationals living outside the country from returning. These are the sorts of policies required to get net migration down to the tens of thousands.

    No, 10's of thousands is plainly bollocks. Personally I just want control on immigration, not any particular number, mostly so that we can avoid bringing in people that don't contribute to society, and so we can usefully throw undesirables out without them shortly walking back in the door again.

    The asylum seekers is a red herring, they are not counted in immigration numbers, and in any case over half the asylum seekers to the UK have been rejected and have had their appeals rejected, and yet ARE STILL IN THE COUNTRY, over half the Somalis in the country for example, are failed asylum seekers that have yet to be deported. Someone in immigration needs a firm kick up the arse there.

    Mostly what I want is a PM that doesn't lie about things he cant deliver. The no ifs, no buts pledge wouldn't have been possible even with a Conservative majority government, so it was a lie.

  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,133

    Financier said:

    Farage in his interview on ITV this morning has realised that the only way to control EU immigration is to leave the EU So he has had to abandon targets.

    Also said he want an Australian points system that would limit immigrants to only those with required skill sets. Why hasn't that been imposed before (on non-EU) - LD objections and threats?

    British non-EU immigration rules for immigrating for employment purposes are already effectively more restrictive than that: You need a company that's prepared to say they need you and will spend time and money on the process.

    I suppose you could tighten it up more by saying the government has a list of jobs that aren't needed and if a company says they need a particular person from overseas they must be lying and won't even look at the application, but this would obviously be thoroughly mad since there's no way the government's list could cover all possible situations, and I'd be surprised if it's what Australia do in practice.
    UKIP are pushing work visas, rather than citizenship.

    "Foreign workers classified as “highly skilled” under the new points system would be given 5-year visas, after which they would be allowed to apply for permanent leave to remain, according to UKIP.

    During the 5-year period, they would be expected to have their own health insurance, and would be barred from claiming any U.K. benefits."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/ukip-plans-points-system-benefits-ban-for-immigrants
    Presumably they won't have to pay National Insurance contributions since they don't get anything out? This might actually work OK - young, healthy people with high earning potential. OTOH people who can get work visas already have this profile, so have they properly accounted for the damage to the National Insurance risk pool?
    Do you really think that national insurance contributions fund the NHS and welfare state generally ???
  • Options
    Indigo said:

    Patrick said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Aiannucci: UKIP were going to publish their manifesto last week. Anyone know what happened to it?

    Farage just said on Radio 4 that he expects to have the manifesto publishedin April, after the others have been published.

    The problem seems to be a shortage of fag packets for him to write it on.
    Are the LDs going to have a manifesto, or will Mr Clegg just say 'trust me'?
    I think the party with the hardest challenge on writing its manifesto is Labour. Ed has done a super job of keeping the party together by avoiding policy at all costs. But he's going to have to commit something to paper. It is frankly incredible that after years as leader and with only 2 months to go we still all have no idea really what a Labour administration would do. The second the Labour manifesto is published its going to upset some of their own and be wide open to attack from the other parties.
    Its entirely possible we are going to see a "warm words" manifesto, which is a load of good knocking copy against the Tories and Kippers, sounds warm and comforting, says "fairness" every third word, but doesn't actually commit them to very much.
    I would have thought an 'all motherhood statements' manifesto for a GE when we face some very serious issues as a country is going to be very easy to attack. All the 'not a serious party for government' issues will rush to the fore. Labour need a credible manifesto (especially economically) and I don't see how they can pull one out of the hat at the eleventh hour (and 59 minutes).
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967

    Indigo said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Now @ukip leader Nigel Farage says no caps and targets on immigration on #r4today - but thinks numbers would be less than 50,000

    So, no caps on immigration this week, criticising Enoch Powell last week.

    That's the afternoon thread sorted.

    "Have Farage and UKIP become part of the Liberal LabLibCan Metropolitan Elite with these new policies?"
    The Australian style points system gives more than twice the percapita immigration rate of the UK.

    Australia has a third the population of the UK, so two thirds of the actual immigration.

    How does that work out as immigrants per square kilometre of land (clue, Australia is 7 MILLION square metres of land, the UK is less than quarter of one million, so about a 30th of the size)
    No. Australia has as many annual immigrants as us, but about a 1/3 of our population.

    Australia is vast, but these migrants are not living in the outback. Australia is one of the most urbanised countries in the world and migration is putting the same strain on their pre existing population as on ours.

    So far as I can see no developed economy has managed to get immigration down to the level that Farage or Cameron propose apart from Japan.

    Is the plan to ban foreign spouses of British nationals? Deport all asylum seekers on arrival irrespective of their history? Deport all students as soon as their course finishes? Refuse permission for the 10 million UK nationals living outside the country from returning. These are the sorts of policies required to get net migration down to the tens of thousands.
    And yet, the UK managed to do so, from 1962-1997, when the economy grew more rapidly than subsequently.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,427
    Indigo said:

    Patrick said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Aiannucci: UKIP were going to publish their manifesto last week. Anyone know what happened to it?

    Farage just said on Radio 4 that he expects to have the manifesto publishedin April, after the others have been published.

    The problem seems to be a shortage of fag packets for him to write it on.
    Are the LDs going to have a manifesto, or will Mr Clegg just say 'trust me'?
    I think the party with the hardest challenge on writing its manifesto is Labour. Ed has done a super job of keeping the party together by avoiding policy at all costs. But he's going to have to commit something to paper. It is frankly incredible that after years as leader and with only 2 months to go we still all have no idea really what a Labour administration would do. The second the Labour manifesto is published its going to upset some of their own and be wide open to attack from the other parties.
    Its entirely possible we are going to see a "warm words" manifesto, which is a load of good knocking copy against the Tories and Kippers, sounds warm and comforting, says "fairness" every third word, but doesn't actually commit them to very much.
    I read yesterday, I forget where, that there were between 20 and 30 people "involved" in writing the Lab manifesto. Can't imagine how difficult that is going to be to deliver on time. Wouldn't have happened under Campbell, Mandelson & Blair Inc.

    Personally, I was hoping Jon Crudas would be allowed to just get on with it - it would have been an interesting and highly thought provoking document.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited March 2015
    Indigo said:

    Patrick said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Aiannucci: UKIP were going to publish their manifesto last week. Anyone know what happened to it?

    Farage just said on Radio 4 that he expects to have the manifesto publishedin April, after the others have been published.

    The problem seems to be a shortage of fag packets for him to write it on.
    Are the LDs going to have a manifesto, or will Mr Clegg just say 'trust me'?
    I think the party with the hardest challenge on writing its manifesto is Labour. Ed has done a super job of keeping the party together by avoiding policy at all costs. But he's going to have to commit something to paper. It is frankly incredible that after years as leader and with only 2 months to go we still all have no idea really what a Labour administration would do. The second the Labour manifesto is published its going to upset some of their own and be wide open to attack from the other parties.
    Its entirely possible we are going to see a "warm words" manifesto, which is a load of good knocking copy against the Tories and Kippers, sounds warm and comforting, says "fairness" every third word, but doesn't actually commit them to very much.
    If Ed goes down that route, it will be as well received as his last conference speech - ie, panned by all sides of the political spectrum.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    MORE Welsh voters believe David Cameron would be a better prime minister than Ed Miliband, according to a new poll.

    The ICM survery, commissioned by BBC Wales, found 34 per cent rated the Tory leader, over just 23 per cent for his Labour rival.

    The Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg came in at 5 per cent, three points behind the UKIP leader Nigel Farage on 8 per cent.

    Twenty-one per cent answered 'none of them'

    http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Welsh-voters-prefer-Cameron-Miliband-according/story-26116247-detail/story.html
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Patrick said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Aiannucci: UKIP were going to publish their manifesto last week. Anyone know what happened to it?

    Farage just said on Radio 4 that he expects to have the manifesto publishedin April, after the others have been published.

    The problem seems to be a shortage of fag packets for him to write it on.
    Are the LDs going to have a manifesto, or will Mr Clegg just say 'trust me'?
    The second the Labour manifesto is published its going to upset some of their own and be wide open to attack from the other parties.
    Look how well reduced Tuition fees for wealthy graduates paid for by pensioners fared led to splits in the shadow cabinet......
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Ed's first question this morning should be "what on earth happened to my lead in the polls" ?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Sean_F said:

    Indigo said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Now @ukip leader Nigel Farage says no caps and targets on immigration on #r4today - but thinks numbers would be less than 50,000

    So, no caps on immigration this week, criticising Enoch Powell last week.

    That's the afternoon thread sorted.

    "Have Farage and UKIP become part of the Liberal LabLibCan Metropolitan Elite with these new policies?"
    The Australian style points system gives more than twice the percapita immigration rate of the UK.

    Australia has a third the population of the UK, so two thirds of the actual immigration.

    How does that work out as immigrants per square kilometre of land (clue, Australia is 7 MILLION square metres of land, the UK is less than quarter of one million, so about a 30th of the size)
    No. Australia has as many annual immigrants as us, but about a 1/3 of our population.

    Australia is vast, but these migrants are not living in the outback. Australia is one of the most urbanised countries in the world and migration is putting the same strain on their pre existing population as on ours.

    So far as I can see no developed economy has managed to get immigration down to the level that Farage or Cameron propose apart from Japan.

    Is the plan to ban foreign spouses of British nationals? Deport all asylum seekers on arrival irrespective of their history? Deport all students as soon as their course finishes? Refuse permission for the 10 million UK nationals living outside the country from returning. These are the sorts of policies required to get net migration down to the tens of thousands.
    And yet, the UK managed to do so, from 1962-1997, when the economy grew more rapidly than subsequently.
    Surely that was down to the huge exodus of luvvies fleeing Fatcha?
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited March 2015
    Looking at the detail of today's YouGov poll reveals a Tory lead of 1.4%. Only rounding of party shares made it 2%.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Financier said:

    MORE Welsh voters believe David Cameron would be a better prime minister than Ed Miliband, according to a new poll.

    Wonder what the Northern Irish think.....we know the views of the Scots & English, so that just leaves them......
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727

    antifrank said:

    Sajid Javid might be peaking too soon:

    @montie: Interesting: @SajidJavid now in clear third place in future contest to succeed David Cameron http://t.co/TEBtOJFbFz http://t.co/fc5GR3CIse

    See that only confirms to me that Tory leaders should be elected by the parliamentary party and not party activists.

    Liam Bloody Fox in 4th place!

    And Owen Paterson on 5%!
    Please not Owen Patterson, may he sink below 5%.
This discussion has been closed.