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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A leading academic forecasting model gives Farage just a 2%

SystemSystem Posts: 11,684
edited February 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A leading academic forecasting model gives Farage just a 2% chance in South Thanet – Betfair punters have it at 60%

It was Tim Montgomerie in today’s Times who alerted me to the forecast for Farage’s South Thanet that has been produced by the 2015 UK Parliamentary Election Forecast – a collaberation between dons at UEA, LSE and Durham. For anyone betting on single seats their site is a gem with percentage probabilities for each party in every single seat.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    edited February 2015
    I guess it shows how difficult it is to base Ukip predictions on previous election vote shares... I have tried and I guess my predictions are at the opposite end of the spectrum to those of these fellows


    Today's immigration numbers and comres polling can't do Ukip any harm though and the party rep, Steven woolfe, on daily politics was excellent (Tories wouldn't send anyone and were empty chaired)
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    edited February 2015
    .
  • Options
    isam said:

    I guess it shows how difficult it is to base Ukip predictions on previous election vote shares... I have tried and I guess my predictions are at the opposite end of the spectrum to those of these fellows


    Today's immigration numbers and comres polling can't do Ukip any harm though and the party rep, Steven woolfe, on daily politics was excellent (Tories wouldn't send anyone and were empty chaired)

    ComRes gave UKIP 13% this week (average all pollsters so far this week 14.3%)
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    I remain comfortable with my pb.com competition entry - of UKIP winning just 1 seat.

    Or as some might call it, the Carswell "that bloody Tory" Party. I suspect that is not the party of - how to put this - many of UKIP's less enlightened voters.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2015

    isam said:

    I guess it shows how difficult it is to base Ukip predictions on previous election vote shares... I have tried and I guess my predictions are at the opposite end of the spectrum to those of these fellows


    Today's immigration numbers and comres polling can't do Ukip any harm though and the party rep, Steven woolfe, on daily politics was excellent (Tories wouldn't send anyone and were empty chaired)

    ComRes gave UKIP 13% this week (average all pollsters so far this week 14.3%)
    Personally I suspect the UKIP vote is currently where it has been for the past few months around 16%, just the recent bad press on the TV has made kipper voters a bit more shy. I don't really expect their number to change a great deal until viewing the ballot paper.

    Or as some might call it, the Carswell "that bloody Tory" Party. I suspect that is not the party of - how to put this - many of UKIP's less enlightened voters.

    With lefties like OKC considering opting for a NOTA vote I think an upset in the North of England isn't out of the question, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a Heywood & Middleton type of seat fall from Labour to UKIP on the back of the apathy of the Labour vote.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    Jihadi john - the excuses begin... The poor little lamb

    Catrin Nye (@CatrinNye)
    26/02/2015 12:57
    'Jihadi John' was 'Radicalised by Britain' - press release from @UK_CAGE on contact with
    Mohammed Emwazi ow.ly/3xfiP4
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2015
    isam said:

    Jihadi john - the excuses begin... The poor little lamb

    Catrin Nye (@CatrinNye)
    26/02/2015 12:57
    'Jihadi John' was 'Radicalised by Britain' - press release from @UK_CAGE on contact with
    Mohammed Emwazi ow.ly/3xfiP4

    Beyond parody...Guardian already pushing that angle though. If only people weren't so nasty to him when all he tried to do was go on safari....

    Mohammed Emwazi was in regular contact with Cage Prisoners, whose director is Moazzam Begg...who despite having attended terrorist training camps is a darling of some part of the media, of course had charges of providing terrorist training and funding terrorism in Syria DROPPED. Some might say it is a very small world.
  • Options
    Indigo said:

    isam said:

    I guess it shows how difficult it is to base Ukip predictions on previous election vote shares... I have tried and I guess my predictions are at the opposite end of the spectrum to those of these fellows


    Today's immigration numbers and comres polling can't do Ukip any harm though and the party rep, Steven woolfe, on daily politics was excellent (Tories wouldn't send anyone and were empty chaired)

    ComRes gave UKIP 13% this week (average all pollsters so far this week 14.3%)
    Personally I suspect the UKIP vote is currently where it has been for the past few months around 16%, just the recent bad press on the TV has made kipper voters a bit more shy. I don't really expect their number to change a great deal until viewing the ballot paper.
    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/569483399511064577
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930

    isam said:

    I guess it shows how difficult it is to base Ukip predictions on previous election vote shares... I have tried and I guess my predictions are at the opposite end of the spectrum to those of these fellows


    Today's immigration numbers and comres polling can't do Ukip any harm though and the party rep, Steven woolfe, on daily politics was excellent (Tories wouldn't send anyone and were empty chaired)

    ComRes gave UKIP 13% this week (average all pollsters so far this week 14.3%)
    Today's immigration poll had Ukip top on 36% inc don't knows
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    @MaxPB FPT: One of the consequences of having not a single member of the Government with a degree in Science, Mathematics or Engineering.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited February 2015
    I dont understand their output. In the summary it says UKIP gains almost certain but the only possible gains they list (Boston / Thurrock) are not forecast to be gains at all and they even have UKIP losing Rochester.

    Edit - or do they mean that by forecasting a win for Carswell (which seems to be all they are saying) that this represents an "almost certain seat gain"?

    They have the Greens winning Bristol West. A brave prediction but it is by far the most likely Green gain. And they apparently have 1,000 new members in Bristol since the start of the year alone. That implies a huge level of foot soldiers on the ground to counteract the "wasted voted" issue that will be the biggest problem there.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    "However, the model does not know whether your MP is beloved by constituents or embroiled in scandal, nor does it know whether Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage is standing in your constituency, let alone what the implications of that might be."
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930

    isam said:

    Jihadi john - the excuses begin... The poor little lamb

    Catrin Nye (@CatrinNye)
    26/02/2015 12:57
    'Jihadi John' was 'Radicalised by Britain' - press release from @UK_CAGE on contact with
    Mohammed Emwazi ow.ly/3xfiP4

    Beyond parody...Guardian already pushing that angle though. I mean if people weren't so nasty to him when all he tried to do was go on safari....

    Mohammed Emwazi was in regular contact with Cage Prisoners, whose director is Moazzam Begg...who despite having attended terrorist training camps is a darling of some part of the media, of course had charges of providing terrorist training and funding terrorism in Syria DROPPED. Some might say it is a very small world.
    Blue eyed boy made bad by interfering govt busybodies

    'Mohammed Emwazi is a British citizen who was subjected to security agency harassment for at least four years.

    He was repeatedly detained at airports, deported, barred from entering countries and even allegedly assaulted by officers. This treatment prevented him from leading a normal life while having no means to obtain redress, even though no evidence was ever presented to suggest he committed any wrongdoing.

    A Washington Post investigation recently alleged he was the British IS member known as “Jihadi John”.'

    http://www.cageuk.org/case/mohammed-emwazi
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    isam said:

    isam said:

    I guess it shows how difficult it is to base Ukip predictions on previous election vote shares... I have tried and I guess my predictions are at the opposite end of the spectrum to those of these fellows


    Today's immigration numbers and comres polling can't do Ukip any harm though and the party rep, Steven woolfe, on daily politics was excellent (Tories wouldn't send anyone and were empty chaired)

    ComRes gave UKIP 13% this week (average all pollsters so far this week 14.3%)
    Today's immigration poll had Ukip top on 36% inc don't knows
    Ah, got you! Sorry :)
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Indigo said:

    isam said:

    I guess it shows how difficult it is to base Ukip predictions on previous election vote shares... I have tried and I guess my predictions are at the opposite end of the spectrum to those of these fellows


    Today's immigration numbers and comres polling can't do Ukip any harm though and the party rep, Steven woolfe, on daily politics was excellent (Tories wouldn't send anyone and were empty chaired)

    ComRes gave UKIP 13% this week (average all pollsters so far this week 14.3%)
    Personally I suspect the UKIP vote is currently where it has been for the past few months around 16%, just the recent bad press on the TV has made kipper voters a bit more shy. I don't really expect their number to change a great deal until viewing the ballot paper.
    UKIP support is nowhere near 16% . It is much closer to the 9% being picked up by the likes of ICM and Ipsos Mori
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Neil said:

    I dont understand their output. In the summary it says UKIP gains almost certain but the only possible gains they list (Boston / Thurrock) are not forecast to be gains at all and they even have UKIP losing Rochester.

    They have the Greens winning Bristol West. A brave prediction but it is by far the most likely Green gain. And they apparently have 1,000 new members in Bristol since the start of the year alone. That implies a huge level of foot soldiers on the ground to counteract the "wasted voted" issue that will be the biggest problem there.

    UEA, LSE and Durham, not exactly the cutting edge of rightwingery and kipperdom even for academics....
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Pulpstar said:

    @MaxPB FPT: One of the consequences of having not a single member of the Government with a degree in Science, Mathematics or Engineering.

    As I said, energy policy is the only thing that would motivate me to become an MP, only because they have fecked it up for the last 20 years through lack of expertise.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2015
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Jihadi john - the excuses begin... The poor little lamb

    Catrin Nye (@CatrinNye)
    26/02/2015 12:57
    'Jihadi John' was 'Radicalised by Britain' - press release from @UK_CAGE on contact with
    Mohammed Emwazi ow.ly/3xfiP4

    Beyond parody...Guardian already pushing that angle though. I mean if people weren't so nasty to him when all he tried to do was go on safari....

    Mohammed Emwazi was in regular contact with Cage Prisoners, whose director is Moazzam Begg...who despite having attended terrorist training camps is a darling of some part of the media, of course had charges of providing terrorist training and funding terrorism in Syria DROPPED. Some might say it is a very small world.
    Blue eyed boy made bad by interfering govt busybodies

    'Mohammed Emwazi is a British citizen who was subjected to security agency harassment for at least four years.

    He was repeatedly detained at airports, deported, barred from entering countries and even allegedly assaulted by officers. This treatment prevented him from leading a normal life while having no means to obtain redress, even though no evidence was ever presented to suggest he committed any wrongdoing.

    A Washington Post investigation recently alleged he was the British IS member known as “Jihadi John”.'

    http://www.cageuk.org/case/mohammed-emwazi
    Lets have a look at one of his close associates...Lots of things jump right out.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22721536

    The Islamic Safari Company must have been doing roaring business in trips to Kenya back in the mid to late 2000's.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    OTOH May2015 predicts 4 UKIP seats: http://may2015.com/category/seat-calculator/
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    isam said:

    Jihadi john - the excuses begin... The poor little lamb

    Catrin Nye (@CatrinNye)
    26/02/2015 12:57
    'Jihadi John' was 'Radicalised by Britain' - press release from @UK_CAGE on contact with
    Mohammed Emwazi ow.ly/3xfiP4

    Jilted John, more like.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    isam said:


    Today's immigration numbers and comres polling can't do Ukip any harm though and the party rep, Steven woolfe, on daily politics was excellent (Tories wouldn't send anyone and were empty chaired)

    The 17 February YouGov had Immigration as the top issue facing the country (50%), and the 5th most important issue facing "your family" (20%).

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/tdoeatmyoy/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-170215.pdf
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    I think the more interesting question is whether Thanet South represents UKIP's second or third (or fourth) target. First must be Clacton. But are they really more likely to win Boston or Thurrock than hold Rochester, or win Thanet?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Farage losing would leave Carswell nailed on to take over - and put the focus back on the EU not immigrant hounding.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:

    Farage losing would leave Carswell nailed on to take over - and put the focus back on the EU not immigrant hounding.

    Any news from the campaign? Is Farage digging in down there like he should be if he wants to win? Is he reporting how many doors he knocked on in the constituency every day on twitter?

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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    TGOHF said:

    Farage losing would leave Carswell nailed on to take over - and put the focus back on the EU not immigrant hounding.

    No-one is hounding immigrants.

    UKIP want to change HMG's open door immigration policy. The only way to do that is to leave the EU.
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    Oh dear Poor Old Pig Dog Reckless is toast on this.... scraping just 24% in the GE I think I saw.... lucky to get that.
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    Neil said:

    I dont understand their output. In the summary it says UKIP gains almost certain but the only possible gains they list (Boston / Thurrock) are not forecast to be gains at all and they even have UKIP losing Rochester.

    Yes, they have UKIP one seat as their central forecast, 3 as their upper forecast (summary table in the top right corner of the home page).

    For the Greens, they have Bristol West as a 50% chance, central forecast Green 30%, Lab 28%, LD 23%

    Might be complete bollocks, of course!
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2015
    Anybody who has Wolfgang Blau on their betting slip for next Guardian editor, might as well rip it.

    "Already at a disadvantage for admitting he is not a woman, Blau dug an even deeper grave for himself by naming Nick Clegg as the politician he finds the ‘most convincing’. This is the same leader of the Liberal Democrat party who ‘betrayed’ the paper’s student readership over tuition fees.

    Sensing the murmurs of discontent across the room after his admission, Blau tried to win favour by moving on to his second favourite politician. ‘I also think quite highly of Natalie Bennett,’ he said, seemingly oblivious to the damage her car crash interview on Green party policy had done the day before"

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/2015/02/guardian-hustings-a-good-day-for-external-candidates/

    Sounds like he is about as good at this as his second favourite politician.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Farage losing would leave Carswell nailed on to take over - and put the focus back on the EU not immigrant hounding.

    Any news from the campaign? Is Farage digging in down there like he should be if he wants to win? Is he reporting how many doors he knocked on in the constituency every day on twitter?

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/nigel-farage-takes-on-kent
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Smarmeron said:

    @MaxPB
    The American system has created theoretical power, which is not the same thing?

    NIF has achieved more output than input which is a huge milestone in fusion power.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129562.400-lasersparked-fusion-power-passes-key-milestone.html#.VO8i89ztmko

    On a tiny, tiny budget as well. Laser fusion is the future of energy. Tokomaks are big and expensive.

    As I said, this government needs to invest in the correct technology, not in what has "international consensus". It is not about being popular. Pulling out of ITER may not be a popular move, especially within European circles, but it would be the right move in the long term because Tokomaks just don't work, JET couldn't do it and ITER has basically got the same design.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,020
    FPT @MaxPB :

    Molten Salt Reactors are untried on any large scale. The idea that we invest in them and *might* get food, reliable and cheap reactors in ten to twelve years is exceptionally optimistic. The Fuji reactor is expected to take twenty years for a piddling 100-200MW plant.

    You are also slightly disingenuous about the US laser fusion project, which has massive technical hurdles to overcome - not least how to harness any net-positive energy generated, and how to generate it fast enough (1). It is also way behind schedule and, I believe, over budget. That is despite it mainly being for (whisper it quietly) weapons development, with energy being a secondary concern.

    That is not to say we invest in researching these technologies; just that when compared to the need for energy, and the known characteristics of current reactor designs, they're not the immediate way forward.

    You call it 'old' nuclear power. In fact it is the 'only' nuclear power that is currently available in a form proven for widespread generation.

    (1): http://fire.pppl.gov/NIF_NIC_report_rev5_koonin_2012.pdf
  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    isam said:

    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Farage losing would leave Carswell nailed on to take over - and put the focus back on the EU not immigrant hounding.

    Any news from the campaign? Is Farage digging in down there like he should be if he wants to win? Is he reporting how many doors he knocked on in the constituency every day on twitter?

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/nigel-farage-takes-on-kent
    Sounds very sensible.

    Much better than flying over the constituency in a light plane.

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    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    Neil said:

    isam said:

    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Farage losing would leave Carswell nailed on to take over - and put the focus back on the EU not immigrant hounding.

    Any news from the campaign? Is Farage digging in down there like he should be if he wants to win? Is he reporting how many doors he knocked on in the constituency every day on twitter?

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/nigel-farage-takes-on-kent
    Sounds very sensible.

    Much better than flying over the constituency in a light plane.

    Mind you he is currently in Washington DC haha
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    I dont understand their output. In the summary it says UKIP gains almost certain but the only possible gains they list (Boston / Thurrock) are not forecast to be gains at all and they even have UKIP losing Rochester.

    Yes, they have UKIP one seat as their central forecast, 3 as their upper forecast (summary table in the top right corner of the home page).

    For the Greens, they have Bristol West as a 50% chance, central forecast Green 30%, Lab 28%, LD 23%

    Might be complete bollocks, of course!
    I havent read anything about their methodology (I presume it's outlined somewhere). I am racking my brains as to what inputs you could use to produce a forecast of a 50% chance of the Green party winning Bristol West. I havent come up with a sensible answer yet.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    FPT @MaxPB :

    Molten Salt Reactors are untried on any large scale. The idea that we invest in them and *might* get food, reliable and cheap reactors in ten to twelve years is exceptionally optimistic. The Fuji reactor is expected to take twenty years for a piddling 100-200MW plant.

    You are also slightly disingenuous about the US laser fusion project, which has massive technical hurdles to overcome - not least how to harness any net-positive energy generated, and how to generate it fast enough (1). It is also way behind schedule and, I believe, over budget. That is despite it mainly being for (whisper it quietly) weapons development, with energy being a secondary concern.

    That is not to say we invest in researching these technologies; just that when compared to the need for energy, and the known characteristics of current reactor designs, they're not the immediate way forward.

    You call it 'old' nuclear power. In fact it is the 'only' nuclear power that is currently available in a form proven for widespread generation.

    (1): http://fire.pppl.gov/NIF_NIC_report_rev5_koonin_2012.pdf

    That's why we should halt the current nuclear investment plans and just go all in with gas turbines. We should not be lumbered with old style PWRs for the next 50 years because of the short sightedness of politicians.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2015
    MaxPB said:

    FPT @MaxPB :

    Molten Salt Reactors are untried on any large scale. The idea that we invest in them and *might* get food, reliable and cheap reactors in ten to twelve years is exceptionally optimistic. The Fuji reactor is expected to take twenty years for a piddling 100-200MW plant.

    You are also slightly disingenuous about the US laser fusion project, which has massive technical hurdles to overcome - not least how to harness any net-positive energy generated, and how to generate it fast enough (1). It is also way behind schedule and, I believe, over budget. That is despite it mainly being for (whisper it quietly) weapons development, with energy being a secondary concern.

    That is not to say we invest in researching these technologies; just that when compared to the need for energy, and the known characteristics of current reactor designs, they're not the immediate way forward.

    You call it 'old' nuclear power. In fact it is the 'only' nuclear power that is currently available in a form proven for widespread generation.

    (1): http://fire.pppl.gov/NIF_NIC_report_rev5_koonin_2012.pdf

    That's why we should halt the current nuclear investment plans and just go all in with gas turbines. We should not be lumbered with old style PWRs for the next 50 years because of the short sightedness of politicians.
    Gas leaves us open to colossal fluctuations in commodity prices, and beholden to foreign powers. Doesn't sound too clever to me.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited February 2015
    99+% chance fo Lib Dem Seat loss according to this website:
    Bradford East
    Brent Central
    Chippenham
    Manchester, Withington
    Norwich South
    Redcar
    Somerton and Frome
    Burnley North West
    Argyll and Bute
    Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey
    Solihull
    East Dunbartonshire

    95-98%
    Wells
    North East Fife
    Edinburgh West
    Cardiff Central Wales
    Mid Dorset and North Poole
    Gordon

    Selected others:
    Ross Skye Lochaber 92%

    Portsmouth South 81%

    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk 78%
    Leeds North West 76%

    Orkney & Shetland 55%
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT @MaxPB :

    Molten Salt Reactors are untried on any large scale. The idea that we invest in them and *might* get food, reliable and cheap reactors in ten to twelve years is exceptionally optimistic. The Fuji reactor is expected to take twenty years for a piddling 100-200MW plant.

    You are also slightly disingenuous about the US laser fusion project, which has massive technical hurdles to overcome - not least how to harness any net-positive energy generated, and how to generate it fast enough (1). It is also way behind schedule and, I believe, over budget. That is despite it mainly being for (whisper it quietly) weapons development, with energy being a secondary concern.

    That is not to say we invest in researching these technologies; just that when compared to the need for energy, and the known characteristics of current reactor designs, they're not the immediate way forward.

    You call it 'old' nuclear power. In fact it is the 'only' nuclear power that is currently available in a form proven for widespread generation.

    (1): http://fire.pppl.gov/NIF_NIC_report_rev5_koonin_2012.pdf

    That's why we should halt the current nuclear investment plans and just go all in with gas turbines. We should not be lumbered with old style PWRs for the next 50 years because of the short sightedness of politicians.
    Gas leaves us open to colossal fluctuations in commodity prices, and beholden to foreign powers. Doesn't sound too clever to me.
    That is already the case and gas is cheaper than the guaranteed strike price agreed for the nuclear reactor planned. It would be a case of no change.
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    MaxPB said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @MaxPB
    The American system has created theoretical power, which is not the same thing?

    As I said, this government needs to invest in the correct technology, not in what has "international consensus". It is not about being popular. Pulling out of ITER may not be a popular move, especially within European circles, but it would be the right move in the long term because Tokomaks just don't work, JET couldn't do it and ITER has basically got the same design.
    Agree with that. Polywell might work. Thorium / molten salt does work - but not yet at scale. Lockheed Corporation is apprently quite close with some skunkworks type activity. I think a bit of healthy international competition rather than collaboration is what we need. We should leave ITER and invest in powergen driven R&D as a competitive advantage.
  • Options
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Farage losing would leave Carswell nailed on to take over - and put the focus back on the EU not immigrant hounding.

    Any news from the campaign? Is Farage digging in down there like he should be if he wants to win? Is he reporting how many doors he knocked on in the constituency every day on twitter?

    Its about a week old:

    Nigel Farage Is Avoiding The Media In His Bid To Get Into Parliament

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/nigel-farage-takes-on-kent

    That said he is in the US just now but will be back for the Annual Conference in Thanet at the weekend
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Lib Dems holding in both Hallam and Cambridge though.
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    @Pulpstar

    Well Solihull is definitely wrong, which rather undermines their credibility generally.

    I'm not saying the Yellow Peril are certain to hang on to this seat, but it's not a 99/1 shot.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    It would be wonferful to see the loud mouthed Farage taken down several pegs.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited February 2015

    @Pulpstar

    Well Solihull is definitely wrong, which rather undermines their credibility generally.

    I'm not saying the Yellow Peril are certain to hang on to this seat, but it's not a 99/1 shot.

    We think it's wrong, but we cannot see the election being run 1,000 times in Solihull alas. Do the Liberal Democrats keep Solihull more than 10 times in these alternate future universes ?
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    Also in terrorism news, the FBI have arrested a would-be Jihadist whose participation may well have brought abut the triumph of the Caliphate, had he not had his passport confiscated by his Mum.

    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/25/isis-material-support-plot-involved-confidential-informant/
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    MaxPB said:

    Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT @MaxPB :

    Molten Salt Reactors are untried on any large scale. The idea that we invest in them and *might* get food, reliable and cheap reactors in ten to twelve years is exceptionally optimistic. The Fuji reactor is expected to take twenty years for a piddling 100-200MW plant.

    You are also slightly disingenuous about the US laser fusion project, which has massive technical hurdles to overcome - not least how to harness any net-positive energy generated, and how to generate it fast enough (1). It is also way behind schedule and, I believe, over budget. That is despite it mainly being for (whisper it quietly) weapons development, with energy being a secondary concern.

    That is not to say we invest in researching these technologies; just that when compared to the need for energy, and the known characteristics of current reactor designs, they're not the immediate way forward.

    You call it 'old' nuclear power. In fact it is the 'only' nuclear power that is currently available in a form proven for widespread generation.

    (1): http://fire.pppl.gov/NIF_NIC_report_rev5_koonin_2012.pdf

    That's why we should halt the current nuclear investment plans and just go all in with gas turbines. We should not be lumbered with old style PWRs for the next 50 years because of the short sightedness of politicians.
    Gas leaves us open to colossal fluctuations in commodity prices, and beholden to foreign powers. Doesn't sound too clever to me.
    That is already the case and gas is cheaper than the guaranteed strike price agreed for the nuclear reactor planned. It would be a case of no change.
    Not changing from a situation means it must be ok. Hmmm.

    Gas may be currently cheaper but historically has been much, much higher. It will be again. The price of nuclear is only very, very weakly related to the cost of (plentiful) uranium.
  • Options
    Before anyone gets to carried away with this prediction model read this in the fine print from the site:

    How confident are you that UKIP will really do so poorly at converting votes into seats?

    Not as confident as the model says we are, for many of the reasons noted above. UKIP performance is uncertain in a way that is very difficult to model. Because UKIP has such a limited record in parliamentary elections, it is difficult to predict where they will perform well. Moreover, we just have no idea from recent UK history how well a party like UKIP can be expected to do in the general election compared to, for example, the EP election in 2014. The fact that our estimates put weight on both lagged vote from 2010 and current polling means that the model is skeptical about UKIPs poll numbers, and will remain so until shortly before the election. If UKIP support holds at its current levels through election day and polling begins to indicate that UKIP support is concentrated in certain constituencies rather than inefficiently spread across most constituencies, the forecast may begin to indicate seat gains.


    http://www.electionforecast.co.uk/#addingup

    Anyone got a coin? Head or tails?
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    Pulpstar said:

    Well Solihull is definitely wrong, which rather undermines their credibility generally.

    I'm not saying the Yellow Peril are certain to hang on to this seat, but it's not a 99/1 shot.

    They are not idiots, though. If you read through the FAQ it's clear that they know what they are doing, and know the limitations of what they are doing.

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    Neil said:

    I havent read anything about their methodology (I presume it's outlined somewhere). I am racking my brains as to what inputs you could use to produce a forecast of a 50% chance of the Green party winning Bristol West. I havent come up with a sensible answer yet.

    It's probably demographics:

    The way we infer these broader patterns is by modelling how individual respondents' voting intention varies as a function of the characteristics of their constituency. By constituency characteristics, we mean things like past vote and incumbent party, as well as population density, region, average age, distribution of religious affiliation and many other characteristics made available by the 2011 UK Census. We use a multilevel model that we designed specifically for this project in order to estimate how these characteristics correlate with polling responses. The more strongly these characteristics are related to individuals' vote choice, the more confident we can be in estimating constituency vote shares, even for constituencies where we only have a few observations in the raw data. For the purposes of prediction, we don't need these characteristics to cause people to vote in any particular way: correlation is enough.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    edited February 2015
    Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT @MaxPB :

    Molten Salt Reactors are untried on any large scale. The idea that we invest in them and *might* get food, reliable and cheap reactors in ten to twelve years is exceptionally optimistic. The Fuji reactor is expected to take twenty years for a piddling 100-200MW plant.

    You are also slightly disingenuous about the US laser fusion project, which has massive technical hurdles to overcome - not least how to harness any net-positive energy generated, and how to generate it fast enough (1). It is also way behind schedule and, I believe, over budget. That is despite it mainly being for (whisper it quietly) weapons development, with energy being a secondary concern.

    That is not to say we invest in researching these technologies; just that when compared to the need for energy, and the known characteristics of current reactor designs, they're not the immediate way forward.

    You call it 'old' nuclear power. In fact it is the 'only' nuclear power that is currently available in a form proven for widespread generation.

    (1): http://fire.pppl.gov/NIF_NIC_report_rev5_koonin_2012.pdf

    That's why we should halt the current nuclear investment plans and just go all in with gas turbines. We should not be lumbered with old style PWRs for the next 50 years because of the short sightedness of politicians.
    Gas leaves us open to colossal fluctuations in commodity prices, and beholden to foreign powers. Doesn't sound too clever to me.
    That is already the case and gas is cheaper than the guaranteed strike price agreed for the nuclear reactor planned. It would be a case of no change.
    Not changing from a situation means it must be ok. Hmmm.

    Gas may be currently cheaper but historically has been much, much higher. It will be again. The price of nuclear is only very, very weakly related to the cost of (plentiful) uranium.
    Gas is and has always been cheaper than the guaranteed strike price and Uranium isn't cheap or plentiful, we're at or near Peak Uranium and Uranium prices are just as prone to fluctuation as oil and gas.

    Additionally we have no domestic Uranium mines, we do, however, have domestic gas reserves on shore.

    This idea that nuclear power is the solution is fraught with issues, that's without taking waste disposal expenses into account.
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    Hengists_GiftHengists_Gift Posts: 628
    edited February 2015
    Another point worth noting the model is incapable of recognising incumbency, celebrity or notoriety or any other personal characteristics, (age, gender, ethnicity) :

    However, the model does not know whether your MP is beloved by constituents or embroiled in scandal, nor does it know whether Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage is standing in your constituency, let alone what the implications of that might be.

    http://www.electionforecast.co.uk/#addingup

    In fact the site sums up the value of the seat level forecast like this:

    Think of our seat-level projections as a baseline for what you might expect from past election results, geography and demography, plus a little bit of polling data.
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    jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    I have just finished doing a filming session with Emily Maitlis from the BBC newsnight team. They are doing a series of short reports in interesting constituencies where Emily runs with a local running club and then discusses the prospects for the GE.
    We were in Tim Farrons constituency,where he is absolutely certain to be re-elected.
    We are strictly a Fellrunning club,so we took her over a few gentle trails. I never discuss politics with my club mates,but the mention of UKIP brought universal condemnation from all of us,younger members being the most anti.
    4 of us ran,and in the interview session I was surprised at the range of opinions from my fellow club mates.
    Anyway the 2 hours of filming will probably end up as 2 minutes on newsnight, I will wait and see the outcome.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    As already pointed out the election forecast website has some rather offbeat predictions. Labour and UKIP on the same vote share in Rochester (24%) is rather ludicrous. I can't imagine how Kelly Tolhurst is expected to land 40% of the vote unless it's a different Kelly Tolhurst to the one who stood in November.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @MarkHopkins
    Not just Ladbrokes, almost all the chains on the high street are doing restructuring and rationalization due to the move to digital purchases.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    I havent read anything about their methodology (I presume it's outlined somewhere). I am racking my brains as to what inputs you could use to produce a forecast of a 50% chance of the Green party winning Bristol West. I havent come up with a sensible answer yet.

    It's probably demographics:

    The way we infer these broader patterns is by modelling how individual respondents' voting intention varies as a function of the characteristics of their constituency. By constituency characteristics, we mean things like past vote and incumbent party, as well as population density, region, average age, distribution of religious affiliation and many other characteristics made available by the 2011 UK Census. We use a multilevel model that we designed specifically for this project in order to estimate how these characteristics correlate with polling responses. The more strongly these characteristics are related to individuals' vote choice, the more confident we can be in estimating constituency vote shares, even for constituencies where we only have a few observations in the raw data. For the purposes of prediction, we don't need these characteristics to cause people to vote in any particular way: correlation is enough.
    I'm still struggling to see how the demographics of Bristol West are such that the chance of a Green gain there is 50% whereas nowhere else is it greater than 10% (despite the Greens having similar starting positions in what I would consider to be fairly similar seats).

    Now I actually think that a gain in Bristol West is indeed far more likely than anywhere else but this is because I know it's the party's 2nd priority seat nationally and I know that resources are being pumped into it. I cant imagine the model allows for that? But, hey, who am I to argue? A win in Bristol West would be an amazing result that would put a smile on my face for many weeks.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    £8 million hit on Boxing Day ?

    I remember backing Silvianaco Conti at a seemingly good price that day !
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    Hengists_GiftHengists_Gift Posts: 628
    edited February 2015
    Brom said:

    As already pointed out the election forecast website has some rather offbeat predictions. Labour and UKIP on the same vote share in Rochester (24%) is rather ludicrous. I can't imagine how Kelly Tolhurst is expected to land 40% of the vote unless it's a different Kelly Tolhurst to the one who stood in November.

    The model takes no consideration of the personalities involved or their records in the constituency or elsewhere (see my previous post).
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    @Neil - Yes, I agree it looks very odd.

    However, I wonder if what this does point to is that Labour might be value?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    jayfdee said:

    I have just finished doing a filming session with Emily Maitlis from the BBC newsnight team. They are doing a series of short reports in interesting constituencies where Emily runs with a local running club and then discusses the prospects for the GE.
    We were in Tim Farrons constituency,where he is absolutely certain to be re-elected.
    We are strictly a Fellrunning club,so we took her over a few gentle trails. I never discuss politics with my club mates,but the mention of UKIP brought universal condemnation from all of us,younger members being the most anti.
    4 of us ran,and in the interview session I was surprised at the range of opinions from my fellow club mates.
    Anyway the 2 hours of filming will probably end up as 2 minutes on newsnight, I will wait and see the outcome.

    Probably a touch of value in the 1-16 about Farron in Westmorland tbh.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    @Neil - Yes, I agree it looks very odd.

    However, I wonder if what this does point to is that Labour might be value?

    GREEN GAIN NAILED ON!!!!!

    I might actually spend a weekend in Bristol between now and the GE doing some door knocking. I will obviously let my fellow PB Tories know if the gossip on the ground points to any value ;)

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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    I'm guessing the Boston forecast doesn't take in the immigration of most of Lithuania to a small area of the Lincolnshire fens.

    Still, if 50-1 is offer anywhere, I'll make my second ever political bet (the one with Isam was my first).
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    Pulpstar said:

    99+% chance fo Lib Dem Seat loss according to this website:
    Bradford East
    Brent Central
    Chippenham
    Manchester, Withington
    Norwich South
    Redcar
    Somerton and Frome
    Burnley North West
    Argyll and Bute
    Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey
    Solihull
    East Dunbartonshire

    95-98%
    Wells
    North East Fife
    Edinburgh West
    Cardiff Central Wales
    Mid Dorset and North Poole
    Gordon

    Selected others:
    Ross Skye Lochaber 92%

    Portsmouth South 81%

    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk 78%
    Leeds North West 76%

    Orkney & Shetland 55%

    Some of the Scotland seats have interesting forecasts too. Can the SNP overturn Labour's 14k majority in Cumbernauld? Yes, it's certainly possible. However, is there really a 99% probability of them doing so?

    Certainly they don't seem to allow much room for sharp changes in the polling or a black swan. I think Nate Silver's model works much better here. Even though Obama looked likely to win re-election for quite some time, he was only given a 60% chance of winning until late in the campaign when it went up to about 80%. Silver was allowing for the fact the polling could be wrong or there could be an error in his model
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    Brom said:

    I can't imagine how Kelly Tolhurst is expected to land 40% of the vote unless it's a different Kelly Tolhurst to the one who stood in November.

    Why not? She got 35% in the by-election. It would not be at all surprising if in the GE the Conservatives do a little better.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Smarmeron said:

    @MarkHopkins
    Not just Ladbrokes, almost all the chains on the high street are doing restructuring and rationalization due to the move to digital purchases.

    Haven't been in a bookies for 7 years - all done online now.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    As already pointed out the election forecast website has some rather offbeat predictions. Labour and UKIP on the same vote share in Rochester (24%) is rather ludicrous. I can't imagine how Kelly Tolhurst is expected to land 40% of the vote unless it's a different Kelly Tolhurst to the one who stood in November.

    The model takes no consideration of the personalities involved or their records in the constituency or elsewhere (see my previous post).
    But assuming it takes into account the by-election result the figures proposed by the model would roughly require a 5,500 vote swing from the UKIP incumbent to the Conservatives.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited February 2015



    Some of the Scotland seats have interesting forecasts too. Can the SNP overturn Labour's 14k majority in Cumbernauld? Yes, it's certainly possible. However, is there really a 99% probability of them doing so?

    The polls point to it being a gain, the yes% 84 analysis points to it being a gain, May2015, Fisher(I think), Election forecast models point to it being a gain, the local political media points to it being a gain http://www.cumbernauld-media.com/news/politics/1303-labour-source-says-cumbernauld-seat-loss-would-be-a-humiliation; @antifrank's model points to it being a gain, the almost 3 ton I've got on the SNP there bloody well hopes it will be a gain...

    Labour are 6-4 to back there, I reckon they are 4-1 at least to hold it.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TGOHF
    There are some who never go near a supermarket or clothes shop these days either.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,819
    Personally I don't think Farage will do it and I reckon he'll stand down as UKIP leader after 7th May in favour of Carswell.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,020
    Patrick said:

    MaxPB said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @MaxPB
    The American system has created theoretical power, which is not the same thing?

    As I said, this government needs to invest in the correct technology, not in what has "international consensus". It is not about being popular. Pulling out of ITER may not be a popular move, especially within European circles, but it would be the right move in the long term because Tokomaks just don't work, JET couldn't do it and ITER has basically got the same design.
    Agree with that. Polywell might work. Thorium / molten salt does work - but not yet at scale. Lockheed Corporation is apprently quite close with some skunkworks type activity. I think a bit of healthy international competition rather than collaboration is what we need. We should leave ITER and invest in powergen driven R&D as a competitive advantage.
    I've mentioned the Lockheed Skunkworks project on here, which ended with a very interesting conversation with someone (Ms Cyclefree, perhaps?) I see it as potentially very promising simply because of who is working on it, although there is still a long way to go.

    It is called the High-Beta reactor:
    http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/us/products/compact-fusion.html
    But some are sceptical:
    http://www.technologyreview.com/news/531836/does-lockheed-martin-really-have-a-breakthrough-fusion-machine/

    IMHO ITER is only useful for long-term research, especially into high-flux materials, at places like IFMIF:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fusion_Materials_Irradiation_Facility
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Pulpstar said:



    Some of the Scotland seats have interesting forecasts too. Can the SNP overturn Labour's 14k majority in Cumbernauld? Yes, it's certainly possible. However, is there really a 99% probability of them doing so?

    The polls point to it being a gain, the yes% 84 analysis points to it being a gain, all the models point to it being a gain, the local political media points to it being a gain.

    Labour are 6-4 to back there, I reckon they are 4-1 tops to hold it.
    If would be a tiny disaster in the pensions world that noone else would notice if Labour formed the next Government but Gregg McClymont lost his seat and wasnt able to take up the role of Pension Minister. He is the first Labour spokesperson in years to hold the brief for long enough to understand it.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    edited February 2015
    B*gger, just realised Boston would be 5/1 only.

    Will JackW, Mr Senior or Antifrank give me 50/1 for Boston? I know they're normally sensible erudite posters who have a better knowledge than me of betting, but where Ukip is concerned, they act like a Victorian lady with a mouse running up her leg.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    I can't imagine how Kelly Tolhurst is expected to land 40% of the vote unless it's a different Kelly Tolhurst to the one who stood in November.

    Why not? She got 35% in the by-election. It would not be at all surprising if in the GE the Conservatives do a little better.
    Maybe so, but I suppose I was more getting at the 16% winning margin. Similarly in Clacton it predicts Carswell to win by a narrow 5%, and while I do expect his majority to decrease I get the impression that in these 2 cases the model hasn't taken into account that people are less likely to change their vote when the you've had a by-election only a few months prior (and particularly in Rochester where the candidates remain the same).
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    Pulpstar said:

    £8 million hit on Boxing Day ?

    I remember backing Silvianaco Conti at a seemingly good price that day !
    It was the football, not the horses. All the big teams won. 17th January was just as bad.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    re Greens chances in Bristol - what will definitely help is the 800% (yes, 800%!) increase in membership in a year. They now have nearly 2,000 members there. That's a doubling of membership in less than two months. That will definitely have an impact.
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    Neil said:

    re Greens chances in Bristol - what will definitely help is the 800% (yes, 800%!) increase in membership in a year. They now have nearly 2,000 members there. That's a doubling of membership in less than two months. That will definitely have an impact.

    Isn't there a serious danger that some of them will attempt to promote Green policies to the electorate?
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    CD13 said:


    Will JackW, Mr Senior or Antifrank give me 50/1 for Boston? I know they're normally sensible erudite posters who have a better knowledge than me of betting, but where Ukip is concerned, they act like a Victorian lady with a mouse running up her leg.

    You'll never goad Mr Senior into making a ridiculous value bet to back up his party political prejudices. *metaphorically strokes a metaphorical 8/1 betting slip on Caroline Lucas to win Brighton Pavilion*
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Pulpstar said:

    £8 million hit on Boxing Day ?

    I remember backing Silvianaco Conti at a seemingly good price that day !
    It was the football, not the horses. All the big teams won. 17th January was just as bad.
    Ack, too parochial !
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    re Greens chances in Bristol - what will definitely help is the 800% (yes, 800%!) increase in membership in a year. They now have nearly 2,000 members there. That's a doubling of membership in less than two months. That will definitely have an impact.

    Isn't there a serious danger that some of them will attempt to promote Green policies to the electorate?
    Not after they've been through the induction process. I doubt anyone who wants to talk policy will be let loose on the door steps.

  • Options
    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    re Greens chances in Bristol - what will definitely help is the 800% (yes, 800%!) increase in membership in a year. They now have nearly 2,000 members there. That's a doubling of membership in less than two months. That will definitely have an impact.

    Isn't there a serious danger that some of them will attempt to promote Green policies to the electorate?
    Not after they've been through the induction process. I doubt anyone who wants to talk policy will be let loose on the door steps.

    What's the secret strategy then? Green face paint, free balloons and a pitch of "let Westminster know you've had enough"?

    If so, 7/2 looks massive.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Completely off-topic - here's hoping Sunday's game is a little better than this classic 0-0 draw between Ireland and England:

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2015/0226/682977-video-ireland-0-0-england-1963/
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Beeb live blog
    "There's been a new development in the Swiss tax scandal. Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) whose results you'll remember were published this morning and which remains 80% taxpayer owned, has said German prosecutors are looking at whether its private bank in Switzerland helped some clients evade tax."

    Shall we file that under "no one seen that coming"?
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    re Greens chances in Bristol - what will definitely help is the 800% (yes, 800%!) increase in membership in a year. They now have nearly 2,000 members there. That's a doubling of membership in less than two months. That will definitely have an impact.

    Isn't there a serious danger that some of them will attempt to promote Green policies to the electorate?
    Not after they've been through the induction process. I doubt anyone who wants to talk policy will be let loose on the door steps.

    What's the secret strategy then?
    If I told you it wouldnt be secret!
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Bristol Green Capital.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-31623105

    Roll up roll up see the plastic whales...
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    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    As already pointed out the election forecast website has some rather offbeat predictions. Labour and UKIP on the same vote share in Rochester (24%) is rather ludicrous. I can't imagine how Kelly Tolhurst is expected to land 40% of the vote unless it's a different Kelly Tolhurst to the one who stood in November.

    The model takes no consideration of the personalities involved or their records in the constituency or elsewhere (see my previous post).
    But assuming it takes into account the by-election result the figures proposed by the model would roughly require a 5,500 vote swing from the UKIP incumbent to the Conservatives.
    But you don't know how much the by election result is taken into consideration and is influencing the projection. I doubt it has a particularly major influence when they are using figures going back to 1979.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015
    Smarmeron said:

    Beeb live blog
    "There's been a new development in the Swiss tax scandal. Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) whose results you'll remember were published this morning and which remains 80% taxpayer owned, has said German prosecutors are looking at whether its private bank in Switzerland helped some clients evade tax."

    Shall we file that under "no one seen that coming"?

    I wonder if Fred Goodwin knew? Possibly, since it's a division of Coutts, bought in 2003, that's in trouble.
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    Brom said:

    Maybe so, but I suppose I was more getting at the 16% winning margin. Similarly in Clacton it predicts Carswell to win by a narrow 5%, and while I do expect his majority to decrease I get the impression that in these 2 cases the model hasn't taken into account that people are less likely to change their vote when the you've had a by-election only a few months prior (and particularly in Rochester where the candidates remain the same).

    Yes, fair enough - they warn that their model doesn't take things like that into account.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,454
    edited February 2015

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    re Greens chances in Bristol - what will definitely help is the 800% (yes, 800%!) increase in membership in a year. They now have nearly 2,000 members there. That's a doubling of membership in less than two months. That will definitely have an impact.

    Isn't there a serious danger that some of them will attempt to promote Green policies to the electorate?
    Not after they've been through the induction process. I doubt anyone who wants to talk policy will be let loose on the door steps.

    What's the secret strategy then? Green face paint, free balloons and a pitch of "let Westminster know you've had enough"?

    If so, 7/2 looks massive.
    The Green strategy is Niceness and pretty young females in t shirts about two sizes too small for them.

    I was canvassed in Manchester last week, I told them I was domiciled in another constituency, a Tory and I drive a one man global warming machine.

    But they still were polite and explained that saving the environment was a priority and that voting Green would be perfect for someone like me.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TheWatcher

    "In its annual report earlier RBS said "a prosecuting authority in Germany is undertaking an investigation into Coutts & Co Ltd in Switzerland, and current and former employees, for alleged aiding and abetting of tax evasion by certain Coutts & Co Ltd clients". It adds the bank is "cooperating with the authority"."

    I wonder if anyone interesting banked with them?
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    On topic, what are the Tory chances in Bootle?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Smarmeron said:

    @TheWatcher

    "In its annual report earlier RBS said "a prosecuting authority in Germany is undertaking an investigation into Coutts & Co Ltd in Switzerland, and current and former employees, for alleged aiding and abetting of tax evasion by certain Coutts & Co Ltd clients". It adds the bank is "cooperating with the authority"."

    I wonder if anyone interesting banked with them?

    HMQ...

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    Smarmeron said:

    Beeb live blog
    "There's been a new development in the Swiss tax scandal. Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) whose results you'll remember were published this morning and which remains 80% taxpayer owned, has said German prosecutors are looking at whether its private bank in Switzerland helped some clients evade tax."

    Shall we file that under "no one seen that coming"?

    I wonder if Fred Goodwin knew? Possibly, since it's a division of Coutts, bought in 2003, that's in trouble.
    Labour has given 23 bankers honours, brought three into the Government as ministers and involved 37 in commissions and advisory bodies.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2012/01/fred-goodwin-rbs-financial

    Those were the good old days.
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    Glad to see Thurrock is fairly high in these %.
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    Smarmeron said:

    @TheWatcher

    "In its annual report earlier RBS said "a prosecuting authority in Germany is undertaking an investigation into Coutts & Co Ltd in Switzerland, and current and former employees, for alleged aiding and abetting of tax evasion by certain Coutts & Co Ltd clients". It adds the bank is "cooperating with the authority"."

    I wonder if anyone interesting banked with them?

    Coutts and Co have a pretty high bar to bank with them.

    So all their clients are either very wealthy and or high earners.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Smarmeron said:

    @TheWatcher

    "In its annual report earlier RBS said "a prosecuting authority in Germany is undertaking an investigation into Coutts & Co Ltd in Switzerland, and current and former employees, for alleged aiding and abetting of tax evasion by certain Coutts & Co Ltd clients". It adds the bank is "cooperating with the authority"."

    I wonder if anyone interesting banked with them?

    Loads of Lefty politicians and media luvvies I'd expect.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @dr_spyn
    It will be just her Madgeship getting invited for lunch with HMRC then?
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    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    re Greens chances in Bristol - what will definitely help is the 800% (yes, 800%!) increase in membership in a year. They now have nearly 2,000 members there. That's a doubling of membership in less than two months. That will definitely have an impact.

    Isn't there a serious danger that some of them will attempt to promote Green policies to the electorate?
    Not after they've been through the induction process. I doubt anyone who wants to talk policy will be let loose on the door steps.

    What's the secret strategy then? Green face paint, free balloons and a pitch of "let Westminster know you've had enough"?

    If so, 7/2 looks massive.
    The Green strategy is Niceness and pretty young females in t shirts about two sizes too small for them.

    I was canvassed in Manchester last week, I told them I was domiciled in another constituency, a Tory and I drive a one man global warming machine.

    But they still were polite and explained that saving the environment was a priority and that voting Green would be perfect for someone like me.
    My only Green bet this year (following a handsome wager win on Caroline Lucas in 2010) is Bristol West.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,454
    edited February 2015
    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    I can't imagine how Kelly Tolhurst is expected to land 40% of the vote unless it's a different Kelly Tolhurst to the one who stood in November.

    Why not? She got 35% in the by-election. It would not be at all surprising if in the GE the Conservatives do a little better.
    Maybe so, but I suppose I was more getting at the 16% winning margin. Similarly in Clacton it predicts Carswell to win by a narrow 5%, and while I do expect his majority to decrease I get the impression that in these 2 cases the model hasn't taken into account that people are less likely to change their vote when the you've had a by-election only a few months prior (and particularly in Rochester where the candidates remain the same).
    That's not true

    We saw in 1992 a string of by election gains being reversed when the same candidates stood again.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Smarmeron said:

    @dr_spyn
    It will be just her Madgeship getting invited for lunch with HMRC then?

    Audience without coffee?

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited February 2015

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    re Greens chances in Bristol - what will definitely help is the 800% (yes, 800%!) increase in membership in a year. They now have nearly 2,000 members there. That's a doubling of membership in less than two months. That will definitely have an impact.

    Isn't there a serious danger that some of them will attempt to promote Green policies to the electorate?
    Not after they've been through the induction process. I doubt anyone who wants to talk policy will be let loose on the door steps.

    What's the secret strategy then? Green face paint, free balloons and a pitch of "let Westminster know you've had enough"?

    If so, 7/2 looks massive.
    The comments on http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/bristolwest/comment-page-7/#comments have made me a believer.

    "The have way overestimated the SNP in Scotland and underestimated the Lib Dems too, overwhelmingly so in the case of Bristol West."

    Electionsforecast for the SNP is bang in line with Ladbrokes odds and SPIN.

    & 2000 local members indicates an SNP like swing is well possible.

    I've had a tenner at 7-2 anyway.
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