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  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041

    RobD said:

    So I've not actually watched the BBC UKIP program. Don't know if I could stand watching it to be honest (I get the impression it'll be like watching the office, pretty cringeworthy).

    Don't waste your time.

    It was appalling. Though I did feel sorry for the Kipper Press Officer.
    Yeah, I just saw the still where she had her head in her hands. What possessed the councillor to make those remarks with a bloody camera there?
  • One hour to go till the Good Lord speaketh!

    I predict a LARGER Tory lead of 2
    Reasonable prediction :)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Maybe Iceland = Farage is a very good analogy.

    Iceland are surprisingly successful, despite being hated and mocked in equal measure by the metro elite as the chavs supermarket. But growing across the country and are teflon like when it comes to bad PR....even the horse meat scandal, they ended up selling more burgers than they ever had and somehow came out of that with zero damage to their long term future.

    The fact that there are UKIP voters and Labour voters is depressing testament to the fact that we share our country with a large minority of people who are morally ugly and morally incompetent.
    That kind of attitude very neatly demonstrates why the Conservatives probably can't win an overall majority again. The massive sense of entitlement, combined with the belief that non-Conservative voters are stupid or malevolent.
    Because, of course, Mr Bond speaks for all Conservatives everywhere.
    Fair enough but what does that say about attitudes to ukip based on the comments of one no mark councillor? We see enough broad stroke / judgemental posts of that type
    A councilor is an elected representative of the party. It says a lot about their screening process, and the reaction of the hierarchy to some of the comments is significant as well (it can be interpreted as condoning, albeit not endorsing, the remarks).

    But, as far as I know Bond_James_Bond is a no-nothing poster on a website and what he says is as relevant to the Conservative Party as what I say on here.
    Splitting hairs, fair enough
    Not really.

    As far as I know Bond's closest connection to the Tories is that he (may) vote for them.

    An elected official is a representative of the party. If an elected official is a racist then it clearly doesn't mean the party is racist, or any other members are racist.

    However, you can deduce something about the party's structures and processes.

    Personally I think that the outrage bus is disturbingly powerful in this country. People are jerks, but it doesn't mean that they should get sacked necessarily.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited February 2015
    @Andrew_ComRes: We are delighted to announce a new polling partnership with the Daily Mail @DailyMailUK @MailOnline

    @Andrew_ComRes: ComRes monthly daily newspaper voting intention series, running since 2006, will continue in partnership with @DailyMailUK
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    edited February 2015
    Rozanne Duncan was sacked very quickly.

    The husband and wife press officer team came across well in the show I thought. You could see the mortification on their faces as Rozanne was speaking, like a slow motion car crash.
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    One of those days when it looks delightful but is bloody cold.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Maybe Iceland = Farage is a very good analogy.

    Iceland are surprisingly successful, despite being hated and mocked in equal measure by the metro elite as the chavs supermarket. But growing across the country and are teflon like when it comes to bad PR....even the horse meat scandal, they ended up selling more burgers than they ever had and somehow came out of that with zero damage to their long term future.

    The fact that there are UKIP voters and Labour voters is depressing testament to the fact that we share our country with a large minority of people who are morally ugly and morally incompetent.
    That kind of attitude very neatly demonstrates why the Conservatives probably can't win an overall majority again. The massive sense of entitlement, combined with the belief that non-Conservative voters are stupid or malevolent.
    Because, of course, Mr Bond speaks for all Conservatives everywhere.
    Fair enough but what does that say about attitudes to ukip based on the comments of one no mark councillor? We see enough broad stroke / judgemental posts of that type
    A councilor is an elected representative of the party. It says a lot about their screening process, and the reaction of the hierarchy to some of the comments is significant as well (it can be interpreted as condoning, albeit not endorsing, the remarks).

    But, as far as I know Bond_James_Bond is a no-nothing poster on a website and what he says is as relevant to the Conservative Party as what I say on here.
    Splitting hairs, fair enough
    Not really.

    As far as I know Bond's closest connection to the Tories is that he (may) vote for them.

    An elected official is a representative of the party. If an elected official is a racist then it clearly doesn't mean the party is racist, or any other members are racist.

    However, you can deduce something about the party's structures and processes.

    Personally I think that the outrage bus is disturbingly powerful in this country. People are jerks, but it doesn't mean that they should get sacked necessarily.
    Aidan Burley. Deduce away.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    So I've not actually watched the BBC UKIP program. Don't know if I could stand watching it to be honest (I get the impression it'll be like watching the office, pretty cringeworthy).

    Don't waste your time.

    It was appalling. Though I did feel sorry for the Kipper Press Officer.
    Yeah, I just saw the still where she had her head in her hands. What possessed the councillor to make those remarks with a bloody camera there?
    She genuinely thinks her comments aren't racist or even at least likely to offend.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    One of those days when it looks delightful but is bloody cold.

    Prolonged thunder storm with copious amounts of hail here in south Devon. A blessing that the dog has gone profoundly deaf....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    edited February 2015
    Dog bites man, Castrogiovanni likely to miss the match against Scotland after getting bitten by a friend's dog:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31588224
  • Sean_F said:

    It's not an uncommon attitude on this forum.

    Nor is it uncommon for Kippers to accuse everyone else of lying, and Labour supporters to accuse Conservatives of hating the disabled or caring only for the rich.

    Well, well. On balance, I have to say any Conservative sense of entitlement (as you call it) is the least unattractive of the three. It is at least based on a wish to be judged by the positive achievements of this Conservative-led government.
  • Scott_P said:

    @Andrew_ComRes: We are delighted to announce a new polling partnership with the Daily Mail @DailyMailUK @MailOnline

    @Andrew_ComRes: ComRes monthly daily newspaper voting intention series, running since 2006, will continue in partnership with @DailyMailUK

    Poll out this evening apparently
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    So I've not actually watched the BBC UKIP program. Don't know if I could stand watching it to be honest (I get the impression it'll be like watching the office, pretty cringeworthy).

    Don't waste your time.

    It was appalling. Though I did feel sorry for the Kipper Press Officer.
    Yeah, I just saw the still where she had her head in her hands. What possessed the councillor to make those remarks with a bloody camera there?
    She genuinely thinks her comments aren't racist or even at least likely to offend.
    That seems to be genuinely true. I find her disturbing not because Ukip didn't immediately pick up on her racist views (which she may have kept to herself) but because she got through their batshit-craziness filters.
  • Oh God. Are Comres going to be doing a daily poll ?
  • Scott_P said:

    @Andrew_ComRes: We are delighted to announce a new polling partnership with the Daily Mail @DailyMailUK @MailOnline

    @Andrew_ComRes: ComRes monthly daily newspaper voting intention series, running since 2006, will continue in partnership with @DailyMailUK

    Ah, more polls for ELBOW! The more the merrier :)
  • Oh God. Are Comres going to be doing a daily poll ?

    I read that as a monthly poll for a daily newspaper.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2015
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Maybe Iceland = Farage is a very good analogy.

    Iceland are surprisingly successful, despite being hated and mocked in equal measure by the metro elite as the chavs supermarket. But growing across the country and are teflon like when it comes to bad PR....even the horse meat scandal, they ended up selling more burgers than they ever had and somehow came out of that with zero damage to their long term future.

    The fact that there are UKIP voters and Labour voters is depressing testament to the fact that we share our country with a large minority of people who are morally ugly and morally incompetent.
    That kind of attitude very neatly demonstrates why the Conservatives probably can't win an overall majority again. The massive sense of entitlement, combined with the belief that non-Conservative voters are stupid or malevolent.
    Because, of course, Mr Bond speaks for all Conservatives everywhere.
    Fair enough but what does that say about attitudes to ukip based on the comments of one no mark councillor? We see enough broad stroke / judgemental posts of that type
    A councilor is an elected representative of the party. It says a lot about their screening process, and the reaction of the hierarchy to some of the comments is significant as well (it can be interpreted as condoning, albeit not endorsing, the remarks).

    But, as far as I know Bond_James_Bond is a no-nothing poster on a website and what he says is as relevant to the Conservative Party as what I say on here.
    Splitting hairs, fair enough
    Personally I think that the outrage bus is disturbingly powerful in this country. People are jerks, but it doesn't mean that they should get sacked necessarily.
    Speaking personnally, I find the outrage cycle to be tedious and self-defeating, as I find myself becoming insensitised to the indiscretions of our politicians/celebrities/chealsea fans/whoever.

    The main impact now is to feed a general feeling of cynicism, ennui and misanthropy, rather than any specific antipathy towards the individual(s) concerned. Sad, isn't it.
  • Oh God. Are Comres going to be doing a daily poll ?

    I read that as a monthly poll for a daily newspaper.
    Ah yes that would make more sense.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited February 2015

    Oh God. Are Comres going to be doing a daily poll ?

    I read that as a monthly poll for a daily newspaper.
    I think they're doing more than that ("extensive provision of polling throughout the General Election campaign period") but maintaining their existing monthly series as part of that.

    "More details on plans for polling during the election campaign will follow in the coming weeks."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    So I've not actually watched the BBC UKIP program. Don't know if I could stand watching it to be honest (I get the impression it'll be like watching the office, pretty cringeworthy).

    Don't waste your time.

    It was appalling. Though I did feel sorry for the Kipper Press Officer.
    Yeah, I just saw the still where she had her head in her hands. What possessed the councillor to make those remarks with a bloody camera there?
    She genuinely thinks her comments aren't racist or even at least likely to offend.
    She’s ill. Needs help.
  • Oh God. Are Comres going to be doing a daily poll ?

    I read that as a monthly poll for a daily newspaper.
    I think they're doing more than that ("extensive provision of polling throughout the General Election campaign period") but maintaining their existing monthly series as part of that.

    "More details on plans for polling during the election campaign will follow in the coming weeks."
    Right, that would make sense.
  • Because I've heard rumours that a pollster other than YouGov and ComRes plan to do a daily poll from March onwards until the Election Day.

    I'm not sure I could cope with that.
  • Oh God. Are Comres going to be doing a daily poll ?

    I read that as a monthly poll for a daily newspaper.
    So they're giving up on the Independent?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Oh God. Are Comres going to be doing a daily poll ?

    I think it means a monthly poll, in a daily newspaper.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Sean_F said:

    It's not an uncommon attitude on this forum.

    Nor is it uncommon for Kippers to accuse everyone else of lying, and Labour supporters to accuse Conservatives of hating the disabled or caring only for the rich.

    Well, well. On balance, I have to say any Conservative sense of entitlement (as you call it) is the least unattractive of the three. It is at least based on a wish to be judged by the positive achievements of this Conservative-led government.
    Conservative chooses the three options and thinks the conservatives are the best, shocker!
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Anorak
    It is a common feeling amongst many, that it is austerity for the masses, and nest feathering for the privileged few.
    Unfortunately, the disconnect it engenders among voters means it empowers those few even more.
  • Oh God. Are Comres going to be doing a daily poll ?

    I read that as a monthly poll for a daily newspaper.
    So they're giving up on the Independent?
    More likely the other way around, I'd expect.
  • isam said:

    Conservative chooses the three options and thinks the conservatives are the best, shocker!

    Quite right too!
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31591643

    Ofcom to probe C4 programme on UKIP for breach of rules on "offensive material, misleadingness and due impartiality".
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    What a fabulous collection of movie/TV related cars. Has to be visited sometime....

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02kn406
  • Because I've heard rumours that a pollster other than YouGov and ComRes plan to do a daily poll from March onwards until the Election Day.

    I'm not sure I could cope with that.

    Opinion polls... must have opinion polls...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    edited February 2015

    Sean_F said:

    It's not an uncommon attitude on this forum.

    Nor is it uncommon for Kippers to accuse everyone else of lying, and Labour supporters to accuse Conservatives of hating the disabled or caring only for the rich.

    Well, well. On balance, I have to say any Conservative sense of entitlement (as you call it) is the least unattractive of the three. It is at least based on a wish to be judged by the positive achievements of this Conservative-led government.

    I think dear old Richard may have forgotten to mention the all too common accusation on here from our Tory chums that Labour supporters hate this country and its history, that Labour deliberately "imported" immigrants to up its vote, that Labour voters believe others should pay for their "sweeties", and so on.

  • Oh God. Are Comres going to be doing a daily poll ?

    I read that as a monthly poll for a daily newspaper.
    So they're giving up on the Independent?
    More likely the other way around, I'd expect.
    No they are planning to maintain their relationship with the Indy and Sunday Indy/Sunday mirror
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Conservative chooses the three options and thinks the conservatives are the best, shocker!

    Quite right too!
    Haha :)
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Smarmeron said:

    @Anorak
    It is a common feeling amongst many, that it is austerity for the masses, and nest feathering for the privileged few.
    Unfortunately, the disconnect it engenders among voters means it empowers those few even more.

    I thinks that's right; it gets to the point where you stop caring about any differentiation amongst the "priviliged few".
  • I think dear old Richard may have forgotten to mention the all too common accusation on here from our Tory chums that Labour supporters hate this country and its history, that Labour deliberately "imported" immigrants to up its vote, that Labour voters believe others should pay for their "sweeties", and so on.

    Fair point, but the difference is that you'll be hard pressed to find a senior Conservataive making such remarks. You'll have no difficulty whatsoever finding senior Labour (and indeed LibDem) politicians making personalised and offensive comments about Conservatives and their motives.
  • Oh God. Are Comres going to be doing a daily poll ?

    I read that as a monthly poll for a daily newspaper.
    So they're giving up on the Independent?
    More likely the other way around, I'd expect.
    No they are planning to maintain their relationship with the Indy and Sunday Indy/Sunday mirror
    Huzzah, so there will be more polls to play around with my ELBOW!
  • The real scandal of this site is the revisionist insanity of those who take the indefensibly mad view that Caesar was superior to Hannibal.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Ishmael_X said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Maybe Iceland = Farage is a very good analogy.

    Iceland are surprisingly successful, despite being hated and mocked in equal measure by the metro elite as the chavs supermarket. But growing across the country and are teflon like when it comes to bad PR....even the horse meat scandal, they ended up selling more burgers than they ever had and somehow came out of that with zero damage to their long term future.

    The fact that there are UKIP voters and Labour voters is depressing testament to the fact that we share our country with a large minority of people who are morally ugly and morally incompetent.
    That kind of attitude very neatly demonstrates why the Conservatives probably can't win an overall majority again. The massive sense of entitlement, combined with the belief that non-Conservative voters are stupid or malevolent.
    Because, of course, Mr Bond speaks for all Conservatives everywhere.
    Fair enough but what does that say about attitudes to ukip based on the comments of one no mark councillor? We see enough broad stroke / judgemental posts of that type
    A councilor is an elected representative of the party. It says a lot about their screening process, and the reaction of the hierarchy to some of the comments is significant as well (it can be interpreted as condoning, albeit not endorsing, the remarks).

    But, as far as I know Bond_James_Bond is a no-nothing poster on a website and what he says is as relevant to the Conservative Party as what I say on here.
    Splitting hairs, fair enough
    Not really.

    As far as I know Bond's closest connection to the Tories is that he (may) vote for them.

    An elected official is a representative of the party. If an elected official is a racist then it clearly doesn't mean the party is racist, or any other members are racist.

    However, you can deduce something about the party's structures and processes.

    Personally I think that the outrage bus is disturbingly powerful in this country. People are jerks, but it doesn't mean that they should get sacked necessarily.
    Aidan Burley. Deduce away.
    My deduction is that Aidan Burley is an idiot, not a racist.

    If you tried to screen out idiots from the political process things might be a lot quieter in Westminster...
  • Because I've heard rumours that a pollster other than YouGov and ComRes plan to do a daily poll from March onwards until the Election Day.

    I'm not sure I could cope with that.

    March is but six days away!
  • Oops!

    Ed Balls asks for a statement on the HSBC tax evasion scandal.

    John Bercow, the Speaker, says he does not want to be pedantic, but the agreed wording of the urgent question related to the “tax avoidance” scandal.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/feb/23/jack-straw-and-malcolm-rifkind-respond-to-cash-for-access-allegations-politics-live-blog#block-54eb18e7e4b0396c3e2b1dd1
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Anorak said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Maybe Iceland = Farage is a very good analogy.

    Iceland are surprisingly successful, despite being hated and mocked in equal measure by the metro elite as the chavs supermarket. But growing across the country and are teflon like when it comes to bad PR....even the horse meat scandal, they ended up selling more burgers than they ever had and somehow came out of that with zero damage to their long term future.

    The fact that there are UKIP voters and Labour voters is depressing testament to the fact that we share our country with a large minority of people who are morally ugly and morally incompetent.
    That kind of attitude very neatly demonstrates why the Conservatives probably can't win an overall majority again. The massive sense of entitlement, combined with the belief that non-Conservative voters are stupid or malevolent.
    Because, of course, Mr Bond speaks for all Conservatives everywhere.
    Fair enough but what does that say about attitudes to ukip based on the comments of one no mark councillor? We see enough broad stroke / judgemental posts of that type
    A councilor is an elected representative of the party. It says a lot about their screening process, and the reaction of the hierarchy to some of the comments is significant as well (it can be interpreted as condoning, albeit not endorsing, the remarks).

    But, as far as I know Bond_James_Bond is a no-nothing poster on a website and what he says is as relevant to the Conservative Party as what I say on here.
    Splitting hairs, fair enough
    Personally I think that the outrage bus is disturbingly powerful in this country. People are jerks, but it doesn't mean that they should get sacked necessarily.
    Speaking personnally, I find the outrage cycle to be tedious and self-defeating, as I find myself becoming insensitised to the indiscretions of our politicians/celebrities/chealsea fans/whoever.

    The main impact now is to feed a general feeling of cynicism, ennui and misanthropy, rather than any specific antipathy towards the individual(s) concerned. Sad, isn't it.
    There's that element, certainly.

    But once Twitter focuses on something - and it is entirely capricious - then natural justice and due process rapidly falls by the wayside. That is a serious issue.
  • Charles said:



    My deduction is that Aidan Burley is an idiot, not a racist.

    If you tried to screen out idiots from the political process things might be a lot quieter in Westminster...

    Why shouldn't idiots have their fair share of representation in Parliament?

    It doesn't seem to command very much respect even though it's stuffed with lawyers and political careerists at present.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Osborne obviously enjoying himself.
  • antifrank said:

    Charles said:



    My deduction is that Aidan Burley is an idiot, not a racist.

    If you tried to screen out idiots from the political process things might be a lot quieter in Westminster...

    Why shouldn't idiots have their fair share of representation in Parliament?

    It doesn't seem to command very much respect even though it's stuffed with lawyers and political careerists at present.
    Perhaps we could get rid of the lawyers as a first step?
  • Because I've heard rumours that a pollster other than YouGov and ComRes plan to do a daily poll from March onwards until the Election Day.

    I'm not sure I could cope with that.

    March is but six days away!
    I think it is mid March, around the time of the budget
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    antifrank said:

    Charles said:



    My deduction is that Aidan Burley is an idiot, not a racist.

    If you tried to screen out idiots from the political process things might be a lot quieter in Westminster...

    Why shouldn't idiots have their fair share of representation in Parliament?

    It doesn't seem to command very much respect even though it's stuffed with lawyers and political careerists at present.
    You do appreciate that it is possible to represent an idiot, without being one yourself?

    Although as a lawyer...
  • antifrank said:

    Charles said:



    My deduction is that Aidan Burley is an idiot, not a racist.

    If you tried to screen out idiots from the political process things might be a lot quieter in Westminster...

    Why shouldn't idiots have their fair share of representation in Parliament?

    It doesn't seem to command very much respect even though it's stuffed with lawyers and political careerists at present.
    Perhaps we could get rid of the lawyers as a first step?
    To clarify, you're meaning nothing more ambitious than excluding them from Parliament?
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Is Balls serious..what a dork..
  • antifrank said:

    To clarify, you're meaning nothing more ambitious than excluding them from Parliament?

    Yes, I certainly wouldn't want to exclude them from political betting.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    I don't see how Labour have a leg to stand on criticising the lack of prosecution. It seems they were quite happy for HMRC to work on the basis of offering people no prosecution if they paid.

    Both parties are to blame for the unconscionable way HMRC deals with evasion.

    If you evade tax, you should have to repay the tax and pay penalties AND go to jail. If you don't repay you go to jail for longer (which as I understand it is how this would be dealt with under other jurisdictions).
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    "is it not good enough for this Chancellor to shout and bluster" claims Ed Balls, blustering at the top of his voice...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    "Ed Balls performance will not save his political career" - Osborne
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Dair said:

    I don't see how Labour have a leg to stand on criticising the lack of prosecution. It seems they were quite happy for HMRC to work on the basis of offering people no prosecution if they paid.

    Both parties are to blame for the unconscionable way HMRC deals with evasion.

    If you evade tax, you should have to repay the tax and pay penalties AND go to jail. If you don't repay you go to jail for longer (which as I understand it is how this would be dealt with under other jurisdictions).

    I'd probably give a discount for an early settlement as well.

    But do we know how many of the HSBC people were evading rather than avoiding tax?
  • antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    Charles said:



    My deduction is that Aidan Burley is an idiot, not a racist.

    If you tried to screen out idiots from the political process things might be a lot quieter in Westminster...

    Why shouldn't idiots have their fair share of representation in Parliament?

    It doesn't seem to command very much respect even though it's stuffed with lawyers and political careerists at present.
    Perhaps we could get rid of the lawyers as a first step?
    To clarify, you're meaning nothing more ambitious than excluding them from Parliament?
    Hmmm....well more radical measures have been proposed:

    "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

    Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71–78
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Bit rough for Aidan to be deselected for hi-jinks at a stag do in my opinion.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IsabelHardman: Labour MPs could do better job of pretending to look enthused if they want us to conclude they think Balls is doing a good job with this qu
  • Mr. Punter, also reminiscent of the first two-parter of Star Trek: The Next Generation.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Osborne is de balling Balls
  • Anorak said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Maybe Iceland = Farage is a very good analogy.

    Iceland are surprisingly successful, despite being hated and mocked in equal measure by the metro elite as the chavs supermarket. But growing across the country and are teflon like when it comes to bad PR....even the horse meat scandal, they ended up selling more burgers than they ever had and somehow came out of that with zero damage to their long term future.

    The fact that there are UKIP voters and Labour voters is depressing testament to the fact that we share our country with a large minority of people who are morally ugly and morally incompetent.
    That kind of attitude very neatly demonstrates why the Conservatives probably can't win an overall majority again. The massive sense of entitlement, combined with the belief that non-Conservative voters are stupid or malevolent.
    Because, of course, Mr Bond speaks for all Conservatives everywhere.
    Fair enough but what does that say about attitudes to ukip based on the comments of one no mark councillor? We see enough broad stroke / judgemental posts of that type
    A councilor is an elected representative of the party. It says a lot about their screening process, and the reaction of the hierarchy to some of the comments is significant as well (it can be interpreted as condoning, albeit not endorsing, the remarks).

    But, as far as I know Bond_James_Bond is a no-nothing poster on a website and what he says is as relevant to the Conservative Party as what I say on here.
    Splitting hairs, fair enough
    Personally I think that the outrage bus is disturbingly powerful in this country. People are jerks, but it doesn't mean that they should get sacked necessarily.
    Speaking personnally, I find the outrage cycle to be tedious and self-defeating, as I find myself becoming insensitised to the indiscretions of our politicians/celebrities/chealsea fans/whoever.

    The main impact now is to feed a general feeling of cynicism, ennui and misanthropy, rather than any specific antipathy towards the individual(s) concerned. Sad, isn't it.
    I agree it is tedious. Especially the cases where some special interest group picks up on a poor use of language by some minor politico and makes them issue a grovelling apology. I wish someone would have the courage to say "get a life and stop whining about trivia" to these people
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Charles
    Under the law, one.
    Under scrutiny of the evidence, and making an estimation, 95% according to the French.
  • I think dear old Richard may have forgotten to mention the all too common accusation on here from our Tory chums that Labour supporters hate this country and its history, that Labour deliberately "imported" immigrants to up its vote, that Labour voters believe others should pay for their "sweeties", and so on.

    Fair point, but the difference is that you'll be hard pressed to find a senior Conservataive making such remarks. You'll have no difficulty whatsoever finding senior Labour (and indeed LibDem) politicians making personalised and offensive comments about Conservatives and their motives.

    I think dear old Richard may have forgotten to mention the all too common accusation on here from our Tory chums that Labour supporters hate this country and its history, that Labour deliberately "imported" immigrants to up its vote, that Labour voters believe others should pay for their "sweeties", and so on.

    Fair point, but the difference is that you'll be hard pressed to find a senior Conservataive making such remarks. You'll have no difficulty whatsoever finding senior Labour (and indeed LibDem) politicians making personalised and offensive comments about Conservatives and their motives.
    I wasn't very hard pressed to find this from the most senior Tory of all:
    http://www.lbc.co.uk/david-cameron-ukip-fruitcakes-and-loonies-63456
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    antifrank said:

    Charles said:



    My deduction is that Aidan Burley is an idiot, not a racist.

    If you tried to screen out idiots from the political process things might be a lot quieter in Westminster...

    Why shouldn't idiots have their fair share of representation in Parliament?
    It seems pretty much pro rata to the number of idiots in the general population....
  • Both Jack Straw and Malcolm Rifkind were lawyers before they entered Parliament.
  • antifrank said:

    Charles said:



    My deduction is that Aidan Burley is an idiot, not a racist.

    If you tried to screen out idiots from the political process things might be a lot quieter in Westminster...

    Why shouldn't idiots have their fair share of representation in Parliament?
    It seems pretty much pro rata to the number of idiots in the general population....
    Who will prospose a quota.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Pulpstar said:

    Bit rough for Aidan to be deselected for hi-jinks at a stag do in my opinion.

    I don't think he was
    Charles said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Maybe Iceland = Farage is a very good analogy.

    Ic that with zero damage to their long term future.

    The fact that there are UKIP voters and Labour voters is depressing testament to the fact that we share our country with a large minority of people who are morally ugly and morally incompetent.
    That kind of attitude very neatly demonstrates why the Conservatives probably can't win an overall majority again. The massive sense of entitlement, combined with the belief that non-Conservative voters are stupid or malevolent.
    Because, of course, Mr Bond speaks for all Conservatives everywhere.
    Fair enough but what does that say about attitudes to ukip based on the comments of one no mark councillor? We see enough broad stroke / judgemental posts of that type
    A councilor is an elected representative of the party. It says a lot about their screening process, and the reaction of the hierarchy to some of the comments is significant as well (it can be interpreted as condoning, albeit not endorsing, the remarks).

    But, as far as I know Bond_James_Bond is a no-nothing poster on a website and what he says is as relevant to the Conservative Party as what I say on here.
    Splitting hairs, fair enough
    Not really.

    As far as I know Bond's closest connection to the Tories is that he (may) vote for them.

    An elected official is a representative of the party. If an elected official is a racist then it clearly doesn't mean the party is racist, or any other members are racist.

    However, you can deduce something about the party's structures and processes.

    Personally I think that the outrage bus is disturbingly powerful in this country. People are jerks, but it doesn't mean that they should get sacked necessarily.
    Aidan Burley. Deduce away.
    My deduction is that Aidan Burley is an idiot, not a racist.

    If you tried to screen out idiots from the political process things might be a lot quieter in Westminster...
    Most racism is just idiocy. Doesn't stop it being racism. And Burley clearly thought it was anti-semitic because he apologised to the Jewish Chronicle.
  • antifrank said:

    Charles said:



    My deduction is that Aidan Burley is an idiot, not a racist.

    If you tried to screen out idiots from the political process things might be a lot quieter in Westminster...

    Why shouldn't idiots have their fair share of representation in Parliament?
    It seems pretty much pro rata to the number of idiots in the general population....
    We could draw Venn diagrams of lawyers, career politicians and idiots. There must be some MPs who manage to sit in the centre of the diagram.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    antifrank said:

    Both Jack Straw and Malcolm Rifkind were lawyers before they entered Parliament.

    People trained to get guilty people off the hook running the country equals why it's all about spinning to stay in power rather than doing the right thing
  • Lord Ashcroft poll

    Con 32 (+2) Lab 36 (+5) LD 7 (-2) UKIP 11 (-5) Greens 8 (nc)

    Highest Lab score with Lord A since July, Lowest ever UKIP score with the Good Lord

    Clear Outlier/Gold Standard/Lead Standard/Peak Kipper

    Delete as appropriate
  • Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Maybe Iceland = Farage is a very good analogy.

    Iceland are surprisingly successful, despite being hated and mocked in equal measure by the metro elite as the chavs supermarket. But growing across the country and are teflon like when it comes to bad PR....even the horse meat scandal, they ended up selling more burgers than they ever had and somehow came out of that with zero damage to their long term future.

    The fact that there are UKIP voters and Labour voters is depressing testament to the fact that we share our country with a large minority of people who are morally ugly and morally incompetent.
    That kind of attitude very neatly demonstrates why the Conservatives probably can't win an overall majority again. The massive sense of entitlement, combined with the belief that non-Conservative voters are stupid or malevolent.
    Because, of course, Mr Bond speaks for all Conservatives everywhere.
    Fair enough but what does that say about attitudes to ukip based on the comments of one no mark councillor? We see enough broad stroke / judgemental posts of that type
    A councilor is an elected representative of the party. It says a lot about their screening process, and the reaction of the hierarchy to some of the comments is significant as well (it can be interpreted as condoning, albeit not endorsing, the remarks).

    But, as far as I know Bond_James_Bond is a no-nothing poster on a website and what he says is as relevant to the Conservative Party as what I say on here.
    What is perhaps more relevant is that the Tories still have well established racists and homophobes as councillors even after they have been exposed. At least UKIP get rid of them when they are uncovered whilst the Tories defend them and allow them to continue in office under the Tory banner.
  • I wasn't very hard pressed to find this from the most senior Tory of all:
    http://www.lbc.co.uk/david-cameron-ukip-fruitcakes-and-loonies-63456

    Which is not an example of what I said you wouldn't find.

    As for Cameron's remark itself, it was largely true in 2006, was it not? I thought the whole point about UKIP was that it had changed and become much more professional and serious since then. People like Douglas Carswell, or our own Sean Fear, weren't involved with UKIP as it then was. Even UKIP's own leader seems to agree, calling UKIP's 2010 manifesto 'drivel'.
  • New Thread
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Lord Ashcroft poll

    Con 32 (+2) Lab 36 (+5) LD 7 (-2) UKIP 11 (-5) Greens 8 (nc)

    Highest Lab score with Lord A since July, Lowest ever UKIP score with the Good Lord

    Clear Outlier/Gold Standard/Lead Standard/Peak Kipper

    Delete as appropriate

    LARGER (Lord Ashcroft Randomly Generated Election Result) is a complete joke

  • Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3 minutes ago
    Ashcroft National Poll, 20-22 Feb: CON 32%, LAB 36%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 11%, GRN 8%. Full details on @ConHome, 4pm.

  • His Lordship appears to have been reunited with his pogo stick.
  • Mr. Eagles, bouncier than Zebedee on a trampoline :p

    Entertaining, but hard to take entirely seriously when you can predict a massive bounce/slump one way or the other.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    edited February 2015


    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3 minutes ago
    Ashcroft National Poll, 20-22 Feb: CON 32%, LAB 36%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 11%, GRN 8%. Full details on @ConHome, 4pm.

    Up and down like a hookers draws as usual.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    edited February 2015
    "UKIP: The First 100 Days" has resulted in all those on the left who were toying with them heading back to Labour. Or something.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    What a fabulous collection of movie/TV related cars. Has to be visited sometime....

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02kn406

    Ace, thanx for sharing.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Sean_F said:

    It's not an uncommon attitude on this forum.

    Nor is it uncommon for Kippers to accuse everyone else of lying, and Labour supporters to accuse Conservatives of hating the disabled or caring only for the rich.

    Well, well. On balance, I have to say any Conservative sense of entitlement (as you call it) is the least unattractive of the three. It is at least based on a wish to be judged by the positive achievements of this Conservative-led government.

    I think dear old Richard may have forgotten to mention the all too common accusation on here from our Tory chums that Labour supporters hate this country and its history, that Labour deliberately "imported" immigrants to up its vote, that Labour voters believe others should pay for their "sweeties", and so on.

    to be fair Southam I think one of Labours senior people admitted that was exactly what they had done re immigration (and to rub the right's "nose in it").
  • isam said:

    antifrank said:

    Both Jack Straw and Malcolm Rifkind were lawyers before they entered Parliament.

    People trained to get guilty people off the hook running the country equals why it's all about spinning to stay in power rather than doing the right thing
    Makes me wonder how much C4 and the Telegraph will be paying into the Straw/Rifkind pension funds?
This discussion has been closed.