Mike Smithson said: "'He's a dodgy Prime Minister surrounded by dodgy donors.' Great line from Ed which will be the one picked up by the bulletins."
It was an awful line which was met by groans in the chamber. The dodgy donor bit might have been ok but no-one thinks Cameron is 'dodgy.' He might be lots of things, some of them unrepeatable, but dodgy isn't one. Miliband got too angry and lost the plot. The rebuffs about Labour were powerful.
Trouble is, Mr Smithson, Tony Blair is too fresh in people's minds, especially now, for any of this to stick hard. The most dodgy politician in a generation, probably for five decades, is now back propping up Miliband and fundraising for him. Under Bliar people got rich and avoided tax like never before in British history.
But guess when you're desperate, and losing, you'll try any ol' stick though.
That is an interesting point...All the shit that was thrown at Cameron over Coulson / phone hacking, and none has really stuck, i.e in comparison to Ed and Nick he is still seen in a much better light. His personal ratings just bump along at "ok", neither very bad nor very good.
I read an article ages ago which summed it quite well basically saying very few people really like Cameron, or ever have (maybe he is too Blair like, maybe not a strong enough leader, the posho trying to fake being a bit more normal)...whatever it maybe...but very few people really really detest him in the way say Thatcher, when they still detest Tories in general / Tory policy.
But because of this "we don't love him, but don't detest him", he wont ever win a majority.
Stepping back a bit, it does look as though Labour are getting increasingly desperate. That is a bit odd given the opinion polling, but it is a very clear feature of the current political landscape.
Mike Smithson said: "'He's a dodgy Prime Minister surrounded by dodgy donors.' Great line from Ed which will be the one picked up by the bulletins."
It was an awful line which was met by groans in the chamber. The dodgy donor bit might have been ok but no-one thinks Cameron is 'dodgy.' He might be lots of things, some of them unrepeatable, but dodgy isn't one. Miliband got too angry and lost the plot. The rebuffs about Labour were powerful.
Trouble is, Mr Smithson, Tony Blair is too fresh in people's minds, especially now, for any of this to stick hard. The most dodgy politician in a generation, probably for five decades, is now back propping up Miliband and fundraising for him. Under Bliar people got rich and avoided tax like never before in British history.
But guess when you're desperate, and losing, you'll try any ol' stick though.
I think the bloke who had it. This is just from memory, but I think he was always demanding a "finder's fee" - the French & the Germans paid up, but the last government refused to.
Now there's always an argument about whether someone should be allowed to profit from a criminal act (the bloke with the data - I believe - stole it), but given that it cost HMRC £1m and I've seen figures of £185m in recovered tax suggested, I'm happy to categorise it as one of those things that government do about which it is best not to inquire too deeply
No, the guy stole the info and first tried to sell it to other banks, then to anybody else who was interested. He sent emails to all major tax authorities, including the UK, saying "want this list"....
The French only got the info when they raided them and seized this stuff, hence why the years of delay between him stealing it and it getting to the tax man.
Stepping back a bit, it does look as though Labour are getting increasingly desperate. That is a bit odd given the opinion polling, but it is a very clear feature of the current political landscape.
I think it's since the NHS stuff failed to really break through for them.
Now they know the NHS isn't going to win them the election, there's really nothing left for them to campaign on?
Stepping back a bit, it does look as though Labour are getting increasingly desperate. That is a bit odd given the opinion polling, but it is a very clear feature of the current political landscape.
Agreed. Whatever your political persuasion that's my reading too. Not sure it's enough to stake on, but maybe it is. There are some signals at the moment out there, I 'think'.
Stepping back a bit, it does look as though Labour are getting increasingly desperate. That is a bit odd given the opinion polling, but it is a very clear feature of the current political landscape.
It is odd - but is it desperation or incompetence? So many within Labour have not reconciled themselves to Ed as leader [never mind his policy prescriptions] and that is surely behind a lot of their current problems.
Stepping back a bit, it does look as though Labour are getting increasingly desperate. That is a bit odd given the opinion polling, but it is a very clear feature of the current political landscape.
Very interesting line in PMQ's. At the end of the exchanges with ED Dave said something like and that's why they are losing (can't recall exact words). Whatever the polls say the Tories clearly think they are moving ahead.
Which polls?
The Tory Party private polls.
Was mentioned in the observer the other day.
Is that similar to the Dan Hodges private poll? Is there reason to expect Tory private polling to be more accurate than the public ones?
All private polling should be taken with a large pinch of salt.
I only mentioned it because someone else wondered why the Tory benches seemed so confident today.
Very interesting line in PMQ's. At the end of the exchanges with ED Dave said something like and that's why they are losing (can't recall exact words). Whatever the polls say the Tories clearly think they are moving ahead.
Which polls?
The Tory Party private polls.
Was mentioned in the observer the other day.
Is that similar to the Dan Hodges private poll? Is there reason to expect Tory private polling to be more accurate than the public ones?
All private polling should be taken with a large pinch of salt.
I only mentioned it because someone else wondered why the Tory benches seemed so confident today.
Stepping back a bit, it does look as though Labour are getting increasingly desperate. That is a bit odd given the opinion polling, but it is a very clear feature of the current political landscape.
Agreed. Whatever your political persuasion that's my reading too. Not sure it's enough to stake on, but maybe it is. There are some signals at the moment out there, I 'think'.
I think it's priced in to the various main markets personally (Cameron odds on to remain PM, Miliband odds against) - can't find much value in the Dave side of things personally.
The Labour 226-250 seat band price was too high yesterday, still might be 10s with Skybet though - which is a good price still.
Funny that Ed's on about dodgy party funding - it was less than two years ago that he personally arranged a large loan with Paul Flowers from the Co-op bank to the Labour Party.
I expect we'll be reminded by CCHQ of that before long.
The issue with Rotherham is that a section of society was deliberately ignored because of fear of being presumed racist. That is surely racist itself.
If Old Etonians were allowed free rein because to investigate them would be anti-Etonian, you would be the first to complain.
You and isam have both claimed that the reason for what happened or didn't as it were in Rotherham was because of a fear of being seen as racist. Has that actually been proven? Is that the clear explanation given in the reports that have been done? I can't say I'm aware of that. There seem to be several possible explanations but for some reason some people want to jump on that one.
Funny that Ed's on about dodgy party funding - it was less than two years ago that he personally arranged a large loan with Paul Flowers from the Co-op bank to the Labour Party.
I expect we'll be reminded by CCHQ of that before long.
Be pointless, the way the BBC treated "poor" Paul Flowers, they will turn it into some saintly story. The interview on Newsnight with him was a disgrace...any other banker, even one who hadn't done anything wrong get limbs torn from them, Flowers, arrrhhhhhhhhh....poor guy....arrhhhhhh....now lets not ask any difficult questions....how are you doing...you doing ok....off the drugs now....
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Avoidance is just where one's chums make rules badly so it can be called something other than evasion
so everyone with an ISA is evading tax?
Did I say every and each tax rule was the same. You tell me is an ISA tax evasion, does it require you to have accountants making up schemes so you can participate etc , you stupid dunderheid.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
"Dodgy prime minister surrounded by dodgy donors" is quite a good line, in the very narrow sense of being a good line at PMQs.
That said, it hardly compares to Blair's "weak, weak, weak" or "I lead my party, he follows his", or even Cameron's "he's an analogue politician in a digital age".
And I don't think it is terribly effective outside the chamber. It will require a lot of repetition to sink in, but I fear that is precisely Labour's intention and we will have to put up with endless "dodgy prime minister" remarks over the next few weeks, both from Labour politicians and their acolytes and cheerleaders on here. Some of these will be very laboured indeed.
Cameron and senior conservatives have to stay calm and stick to their guns. The response which they must repeat ad nauseum, is that this government has a very good record on tackling tax avoidance and Labour cannot excuse their own inaction, nor can Miliband so easily wash his hands of the performance of his own party in government. The counterpunch is that Labour are flailing around grasping at straws because they have nothing to say on, well, anything. The dark arts are making sure the media know all about Labour donors and supporters in a similar position.
Meanwhile the Conservatives need to sharpen their message. The "chaos" line is not resonating and needs to be refined or dropped, and "long-term economic plan" is uninspirational, to put it mildly. Their attacks on Miliband are more effective because they demoralise the Labour troops and highlight one of their major weaknesses. If I were David Cameron I would distill my message to "stability and growth" and work on the following as a conclusion to the sixth question of one of the last PMQs: "the truth, as he knows, and as his party knows, is that he's just. not. up to it." Watch the Labour benches wither in acknowledgement.
Very interesting line in PMQ's. At the end of the exchanges with ED Dave said something like and that's why they are losing (can't recall exact words). Whatever the polls say the Tories clearly think they are moving ahead.
Which polls?
The Tory Party private polls.
Was mentioned in the observer the other day.
Is that similar to the Dan Hodges private poll? Is there reason to expect Tory private polling to be more accurate than the public ones?
All private polling should be taken with a large pinch of salt.
I only mentioned it because someone else wondered why the Tory benches seemed so confident today.
Perhaps a better explanation would be the one OGH had the other day. Tories have no self-awareness.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
Agreed but won't the media game for a few days now be trying to trap Lab in to repeating the smear outside Parliamentary privilege....
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
Watson used the leveson enquiry to directly call James Murdoch something. Murdoch should have instantly challenged him to repeat the allegation outside parliamentary privilege.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this...no...ok, back to the studio, yes must be terrifying for some people all these cuts.
Wrong. GAAR allows the taxman to assess tax which would otherwise be avoided, it doesn't create a criminal offence (though of course a criminal offence may also have been committed under pre-existing law, for example if the taxpayer made false declarations).
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this....
It seems to be impolitic for anyone to suggest that libraries should be in natural decline now that we've got the internet. Making sure that everyone is online is a far more worthwhile goal.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this...no...ok, back to the studio, yes must be terrifying for some people all these cuts.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this....
It seems to be impolitic for anyone to suggest that libraries should be in natural decline now that we've got the internet. Making sure that everyone is online is a far more worthwhile goal.
I couldn't agree more. There is still a role for libraries, but generally as you say internet access and access to online publications / journals etc are the way forward.
Ask a post-grad student in say sciences how often they go to a university library now? I bet they will tell you basically never...because all the material is online. What then is important in case of universities is that they subscribe to all the best journals (which many of the lesser universities in this country don't).
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this....
It seems to be impolitic for anyone to suggest that libraries should be in natural decline now that we've got the internet. Making sure that everyone is online is a far more worthwhile goal.
Libraries contain more than just books: Local references that you cannot find online, a meeting place for toddler groups, and (of course) public internet access.
They need to evolve, but they still have value in the community.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this....
It seems to be impolitic for anyone to suggest that libraries should be in natural decline now that we've got the internet. Making sure that everyone is online is a far more worthwhile goal.
Libraries contain more than just books: Local references that you cannot find online, a meeting place for toddler groups, and (of course) public internet access.
They need to evolve, but they still have value in the community.
Those services don't need to be a library per say. Our kids kids will laugh at the idea you ever needed this massive building to house information that you can view instantly on your portable device, your headset, etc.
There will always be a need for say the British Library, but needing your local town "library" is like Kodak claiming still need film cameras (until they went bust).
We should be planning for the future, and getting everybody online were the focus needs to be.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Avoidance is just where one's chums make rules badly so it can be called something other than evasion
so everyone with an ISA is evading tax?
Did I say every and each tax rule was the same. You tell me is an ISA tax evasion, does it require you to have accountants making up schemes so you can participate etc , you stupid dunderheid.
No but it is tax avoidance. As is pensions contributions. Which account for the vast majority of tax avoidance. We even go to a financial advisor who arranges our finances in a way that shelters them from tax.
Each and everyone of us avoids tax as and when we can. Je suis tax avoiders.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this....
It seems to be impolitic for anyone to suggest that libraries should be in natural decline now that we've got the internet. Making sure that everyone is online is a far more worthwhile goal.
Libraries contain more than just books: Local references that you cannot find online, a meeting place for toddler groups, and (of course) public internet access.
They need to evolve, but they still have value in the community.
It sounds like a redundant service scraping around for a purpose. All those needs are met by various community centres and sure start centres around towns and for a lot cheaper.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this....
It seems to be impolitic for anyone to suggest that libraries should be in natural decline now that we've got the internet. Making sure that everyone is online is a far more worthwhile goal.
I think it's likely the word "library" will drop out of common usage within a couple of generations.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Avoidance is just where one's chums make rules badly so it can be called something other than evasion
so everyone with an ISA is evading tax?
Did I say every and each tax rule was the same. You tell me is an ISA tax evasion, does it require you to have accountants making up schemes so you can participate etc , you stupid dunderheid.
No but it is tax avoidance. As is pensions contributions. Which account for the vast majority of tax avoidance. We even go to a financial advisor who arranges our finances in a way that shelters them from tax.
Each and everyone of us avoids tax as and when we can. Je suis tax avoiders.
I hope Margaret Hodge isn't going to haul me up before her committee about all the tax planning I do.....
You have to love the way the Daily Mail slips this into the PMQs/HSBC story:
"Epstein, above right, who was jailed for 13 months in 2008 for soliciting sex with underage girls, was last month accused of employing teenage 'sex slave' Virginia Roberts, who claimed he made her sleep with Prince Andrew when she was 17. Buckingham Palace has denied the Duke of York had 'any form of sexual contact or relationship with Virginia Roberts' and Epstein has called her claims 'outlandish and offensive'."
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this....
It seems to be impolitic for anyone to suggest that libraries should be in natural decline now that we've got the internet. Making sure that everyone is online is a far more worthwhile goal.
I think it's likely the word "library" will drop out of common usage within a couple of generations.
You underestimate the size of the internet porn industry and the appeal of skimpily-clad librarians.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Avoidance is just where one's chums make rules badly so it can be called something other than evasion
so everyone with an ISA is evading tax?
Did I say every and each tax rule was the same. You tell me is an ISA tax evasion, does it require you to have accountants making up schemes so you can participate etc , you stupid dunderheid.
No but it is tax avoidance. As is pensions contributions. Which account for the vast majority of tax avoidance. We even go to a financial advisor who arranges our finances in a way that shelters them from tax.
Each and everyone of us avoids tax as and when we can. Je suis tax avoiders.
The HMRC had a page explaining the difference between panning and avoidance and evasion.
@Scrapheap_as_was Hardly a worry if you were, you would just pay a percentage of anything that was illegal, and then, since you were not actually convicted, you can sue anyone who calls you dodgy.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Avoidance is just where one's chums make rules badly so it can be called something other than evasion
so everyone with an ISA is evading tax?
Did I say every and each tax rule was the same. You tell me is an ISA tax evasion, does it require you to have accountants making up schemes so you can participate etc , you stupid dunderheid.
No but it is tax avoidance. As is pensions contributions. Which account for the vast majority of tax avoidance. We even go to a financial advisor who arranges our finances in a way that shelters them from tax.
Each and everyone of us avoids tax as and when we can. Je suis tax avoiders.
You can be pedantic if you wish, but these are for everybody and are standard, not like the ones where accountants help one's chums spot the gaping holes , those one's that most people cannot use. Trying to make it sound cuddly and everybody participating is bollocks.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this....
It seems to be impolitic for anyone to suggest that libraries should be in natural decline now that we've got the internet. Making sure that everyone is online is a far more worthwhile goal.
I think it's likely the word "library" will drop out of common usage within a couple of generations.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this....
It seems to be impolitic for anyone to suggest that libraries should be in natural decline now that we've got the internet. Making sure that everyone is online is a far more worthwhile goal.
I think it's likely the word "library" will drop out of common usage within a couple of generations.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this....
It seems to be impolitic for anyone to suggest that libraries should be in natural decline now that we've got the internet. Making sure that everyone is online is a far more worthwhile goal.
I think it's likely the word "library" will drop out of common usage within a couple of generations.
You underestimate the size of the internet porn industry and the appeal of skimpily-clad librarians.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this....
It seems to be impolitic for anyone to suggest that libraries should be in natural decline now that we've got the internet. Making sure that everyone is online is a far more worthwhile goal.
Libraries contain more than just books: Local references that you cannot find online, a meeting place for toddler groups, and (of course) public internet access.
They need to evolve, but they still have value in the community.
It sounds like a redundant service scraping around for a purpose. All those needs are met by various community centres and sure start centres around towns and for a lot cheaper.
Surely 'library' is an abstract concept, a way to store and organize information. The free public service bricks and mortar version of it for storing printed publications may die, but there will always be a need for libraries to store information so long as we remain a scientific, literate civilization.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Did I say every and each tax rule was the same. You tell me is an ISA tax evasion, does it require you to have accountants making up schemes so you can participate etc , you stupid dunderheid.
No but it is tax avoidance. As is pensions contributions. Which account for the vast majority of tax avoidance. We even go to a financial advisor who arranges our finances in a way that shelters them from tax.
Each and everyone of us avoids tax as and when we can. Je suis tax avoiders.
You can be pedantic if you wish, but these are for everybody and are standard, not like the ones where accountants help one's chums spot the gaping holes , those one's that most people cannot use. Trying to make it sound cuddly and everybody participating is bollocks.
But that is exactly what it is. We all avoid it. Self employed people avoid ludicrous amounts of tax meaning often that plumber driving around in a 65k range rover pays less tax than shelf stacker in Asda.
Hundreds of thousands of people pay themselves via incorporated companies to shelter their income from tax. Many people operate just below the vat threshold, to avoid having to levy and pay VAT.
I used to have an LPG car saved me a fortune, i was able to avoid sixty pence a litre in vat and duty by using lpg instead of petrol.
Guess what, ive even at one point had lodgers, and was able to take advantage of the rent a room scheme allowing me to shelter £4,500 from tax every year. I didnt even need to tell anyone i was doing it!!
We wont even talk about all the schemes used to avoid having to pay inheritance tax, something that those who need it will have systems in place.
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
For sure, the issue works better for Labour than the Tories. But it feels like they haven't maximised the potential benefit here.
There were 1100+ high value names that the BBC and Guardian have...I am sure they have kept their powder dry in order to "weaponize" this further. We are now in full on election smear mode.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this...no...ok, back to the studio, yes must be terrifying for some people all these cuts.
Impartial reporting at its best.
The interesting thing about these attacks?
Labour appear to given up on 'policy'.
Well spotted - remember when John Cruddas was going to come up with a big raft of super policies but it was "too soon" to discuss them in public.
The issue with Rotherham is that a section of society was deliberately ignored because of fear of being presumed racist. That is surely racist itself.
If Old Etonians were allowed free rein because to investigate them would be anti-Etonian, you would be the first to complain.
You and isam have both claimed that the reason for what happened or didn't as it were in Rotherham was because of a fear of being seen as racist. Has that actually been proven? Is that the clear explanation given in the reports that have been done? I can't say I'm aware of that. There seem to be several possible explanations but for some reason some people want to jump on that one.
People who suggested it were sent on diversity training, the abusers taunted the victims by saying they would play the race card if investigated
Labour will need to be careful with their dodgy donor smears when not in Parliament!!
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Its a bit job done though...Smeared your opponent, media talking about it, even if they caveat it, seed planted. Also, concentration on will they / wont they sue, takes away from talk of Labour's own donor issues.
Agreed but won't the media game for a few days now be trying to trap Lab in to repeating the smear outside Parliamentary privilege....
Guess what, ive even at one point had lodgers, and was able to take advantage of the rent a room scheme allowing me to shelter £4,500 from tax every year. I didnt even need to tell anyone i was doing it!!
I'm also expecting John Mills, by far Lab's biggest individual donor, to be brought up by CCHQ.
For starters he thinks Labour seems to have "no clear idea on how to get the economy growing" or how to reduce the deficit.
He's also co-chair of Business for Britain and so wants us to have a referendum on the EU. He doesn't seem to agree with the Eds on this...
And one for the lefties! In 2013 his company paid £1.5m corporation tax on almost £100m turnover
PS I know this is a bullshit fact - it's true but it doesn't mean his company avoids/evades tax, the 1.5m was on profits of around 8m - but the lefties cream themselves when they read such a thing about non-Lab-supporting entities.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Did I say every and each tax rule was the same. You tell me is an ISA tax evasion, does it require you to have accountants making up schemes so you can participate etc , you stupid dunderheid.
No but it is tax avoidance. As is pensions contributions. Which account for the vast majority of tax avoidance. We even go to a financial advisor who arranges our finances in a way that shelters them from tax.
Each and everyone of us avoids tax as and when we can. Je suis tax avoiders.
You can be pedantic if you wish, but these are for everybody and are standard, not like the ones where accountants help one's chums spot the gaping holes , those one's that most people cannot use. Trying to make it sound cuddly and everybody participating is bollocks.
Guess what, ive even at one point had lodgers, and was able to take advantage of the rent a room scheme allowing me to shelter £4,500 from tax every year. I didnt even need to tell anyone i was doing it!! .
Unless you earned less than the threshold, you do.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Did I say every and each tax rule was the same. You tell me is an ISA tax evasion, does it require you to have accountants making up schemes so you can participate etc , you stupid dunderheid.
No but it is tax avoidance. As is pensions contributions. Which account for the vast majority of tax avoidance. We even go to a financial advisor who arranges our finances in a way that shelters them from tax.
Each and everyone of us avoids tax as and when we can. Je suis tax avoiders.
You can be pedantic if you wish, but these are for everybody and are standard, not like the ones where accountants help one's chums spot the gaping holes , those one's that most people cannot use. Trying to make it sound cuddly and everybody participating is bollocks.
Guess what, ive even at one point had lodgers, and was able to take advantage of the rent a room scheme allowing me to shelter £4,500 from tax every year. I didnt even need to tell anyone i was doing it!! .
Unless you earned less than the threshold, you're a tax evader.
Q: Did you ask the French if you could use the information to investigate tax evasion and tax avoidance?
Not in those terms, says Homer. But she says things that get written in newspapers do not stand up to the tests needed to secure a conviction in court.
The spectacle of MPs, most of whom couldn't recover a debt from a whelk stall, trying to tell HMRC how to do their job is really quite amusing, especially since those very same MPs made the rules under which HMRC has to operate.
The spectacle of MPs, most of whom couldn't recover a debt from a whelk stall, trying to tell HMRC how to do their job is really quite amusing, especially since those very same MPs made the rules under which HMRC has to operate.
Didn't the same MPs have a special tax code, which allowed them to claim all sorts of expenses which PAYE taxpayers could only dream of, or is that just an urban myth?
Most of the criticism there comes from select committees. It's their job to look tough and produce the soundbites, so I can't take it seriously. The comment from the Election Commissioner is another matter.
'In 2005, Homer was criticised by the Election Commissioner for failings in her role as returning officer during a postal vote-rigging scandal involving Labour candidates the previous year, described by the Commissioner as one that "would disgrace a banana republic", and involving hundreds of votes failing to be counted.[3] Homer defended her role to the Election Commission, saying she had been in "strategic, not operational control", and had confined herself to "motivational management and fire fighting".[4]'
And this person's in charge of HMRC? Heaven help us.
@Charles Watt about drug dealers being able to do the same thing? It would save a fortune if it was used universally. The simple fact is that the rich and powerful do not see tax avoidance as a crime, merely an accidental overstepping of evasion.
The simple fact is that virtually most people do not see tax avoidance as a crime - cash payments to builders, ciggies off the back of a lorry, inheritance tax avoidance scams....it happens at all levels of society an awful lot of the time. There is huge hypocricy on the issue and vast amounts of it regularly spoken by Miliband himself in the H/C. The fact that some very rich people do it as well and get blasted simply highlights the politics of envy and not morality at all.
Did I say every and each tax rule was the same. You tell me is an ISA tax evasion, does it require you to have accountants making up schemes so you can participate etc , you stupid dunderheid.
No but it is tax avoidance. As is pensions contributions. Which account for the vast majority of tax avoidance. We even go to a financial advisor who arranges our finances in a way that shelters them from tax.
Each and everyone of us avoids tax as and when we can. Je suis tax avoiders.
You can be pedantic if you wish, but these are for everybody and are standard, not like the ones where accountants help one's chums spot the gaping holes , those one's that most people cannot use. Trying to make it sound cuddly and everybody participating is bollocks.
Guess what, ive even at one point had lodgers, and was able to take advantage of the rent a room scheme allowing me to shelter £4,500 from tax every year. I didnt even need to tell anyone i was doing it!! .
Unless you earned less than the threshold, you're a tax evader.
Well done for telling us.
Point of note... the limit is £4250.
^_~
oops... thats what i meant... I once bought a raffle ticket at a tory fundraiser, will i now get named at PMQs?
On the #pinkbus, trivial though it may be, it strikes me that this has much the same effect as Ed's "weaponise" blunder - it makes it more difficult for Labour to push an area in which they have a natural advantage, since there's an easy - and resonant - comeback for any journalist.
On the #pinkbus, trivial though it may be, it strikes me that this has much the same effect as Ed's "weaponise" blunder - it makes it more difficult for Labour to push an area in which they have a natural advantage, since there's an easy - and resonant - comeback for any journalist.
Unforced errors.
Why do you think Labour are so glum.
If they can't win on the NHS or equalities what exactly can they win on ?
I mean the one thing that really was a kick in the knackers for them was the polling showing Ed had worse ratings than David Cameron in Glasgow.
A Labour leader with worse ratings than the Old Etonian Toff Tory Leader in GLASGOW
Most of the criticism there comes from select committees. It's their job to look tough and produce the soundbites, so I can't take it seriously. The comment from the Election Commissioner is another matter.
To be criticised by a Select Committee once is one thing. To be criticised by three ......
I bet Labour wish the GE was in February. TBH why are they blasting off all their ammunition 3 months before the election? I would say they are spooked. The tories don't seem to be doing very much attacking, just riposting.
On the #pinkbus, trivial though it may be, it strikes me that this has much the same effect as Ed's "weaponise" blunder - it makes it more difficult for Labour to push an area in which they have a natural advantage, since there's an easy - and resonant - comeback for any journalist.
Unforced errors.
Why do you think Labour are so glum.
If they can't win on the NHS or equalities what exactly can they win on ?
I mean the one thing that really was a kick in the knackers for them was the polling showing Ed had worse ratings than David Cameron in Glasgow.
A Labour leader with worse ratings than the Old Etonian Toff Tory Leader in GLASGOW
Wasn't the question about how well do you think the person is doing their job? Very different from how much do you like them?
@steve_hawkes: Took four hours - Lord Fink challenges Ed Miliband to repeat his "defamatory" comments about tax avoidance outside safety of the Commons
I bet Labour wish the GE was in February. TBH why are they blasting off all their ammunition 3 months before the election? I would say they are spooked. The tories don't seem to be doing very much attacking, just riposting.
Timing is everything.
The Tories are planning to attack at the optimal time.
They don't want a Dieppe 1942, they want a Normandy 1944
On the #pinkbus, trivial though it may be, it strikes me that this has much the same effect as Ed's "weaponise" blunder - it makes it more difficult for Labour to push an area in which they have a natural advantage, since there's an easy - and resonant - comeback for any journalist.
Unforced errors.
Why do you think Labour are so glum.
If they can't win on the NHS or equalities what exactly can they win on ?
I mean the one thing that really was a kick in the knackers for them was the polling showing Ed had worse ratings than David Cameron in Glasgow.
A Labour leader with worse ratings than the Old Etonian Toff Tory Leader in GLASGOW
Wasn't the question about how well do you think the person is doing their job? Very different from how much do you like them?
Was similar to the Ipsos Mori approach and that's the Gold Standard of leadership ratings.
Stepping back a bit, it does look as though Labour are getting increasingly desperate. That is a bit odd given the opinion polling, but it is a very clear feature of the current political landscape.
90 days to Save Ed??
I prefer 90 days to save the UK from Ed. (To be fair he is doing all he can to help).
@rosschawkins: Fink to Miliband: repeat your allegation outside the House of Commons – or withdraw it in public
It was a pretty stupid remark, and you would have to be from another planet to think you could band all those people as reprehensible antisocial and dishonest without some comeback.
Comments
I read an article ages ago which summed it quite well basically saying very few people really like Cameron, or ever have (maybe he is too Blair like, maybe not a strong enough leader, the posho trying to fake being a bit more normal)...whatever it maybe...but very few people really really detest him in the way say Thatcher, when they still detest Tories in general / Tory policy.
But because of this "we don't love him, but don't detest him", he wont ever win a majority.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/jul/11/labour-adviser-tony-blair
and here:
http://order-order.com/2015/02/09/blair-already-back-electioneering-for-labour/
I'd have thought TB is very toxic, but he wouldn't see that even if the Almighty told him.
Lovely smiling picture....Hasn't Birmingham also had serious issues in the area of child services in the recent past?
'A man is confronting Harriet Harman at Asda - "It's patronising and wrong" to divide women and men pic.twitter.com/qYDptRkbTB'
Vanshambles?
The French only got the info when they raided them and seized this stuff, hence why the years of delay between him stealing it and it getting to the tax man.
Now they know the NHS isn't going to win them the election, there's really nothing left for them to campaign on?
I only mentioned it because someone else wondered why the Tory benches seemed so confident today.
The Labour 226-250 seat band price was too high yesterday, still might be 10s with Skybet though - which is a good price still.
I expect we'll be reminded by CCHQ of that before long.
Another do as I say, not as I do fail by Labour.
That said, it hardly compares to Blair's "weak, weak, weak" or "I lead my party, he follows his", or even Cameron's "he's an analogue politician in a digital age".
And I don't think it is terribly effective outside the chamber. It will require a lot of repetition to sink in, but I fear that is precisely Labour's intention and we will have to put up with endless "dodgy prime minister" remarks over the next few weeks, both from Labour politicians and their acolytes and cheerleaders on here. Some of these will be very laboured indeed.
Cameron and senior conservatives have to stay calm and stick to their guns. The response which they must repeat ad nauseum, is that this government has a very good record on tackling tax avoidance and Labour cannot excuse their own inaction, nor can Miliband so easily wash his hands of the performance of his own party in government. The counterpunch is that Labour are flailing around grasping at straws because they have nothing to say on, well, anything. The dark arts are making sure the media know all about Labour donors and supporters in a similar position.
Meanwhile the Conservatives need to sharpen their message. The "chaos" line is not resonating and needs to be refined or dropped, and "long-term economic plan" is uninspirational, to put it mildly. Their attacks on Miliband are more effective because they demoralise the Labour troops and highlight one of their major weaknesses. If I were David Cameron I would distill my message to "stability and growth" and work on the following as a conclusion to the sixth question of one of the last PMQs: "the truth, as he knows, and as his party knows, is that he's just. not. up to it." Watch the Labour benches wither in acknowledgement.
@JohnRentoul: If Leader of Opposition's attack depends on statements he cannot make without parliamentary privilege, it's not a good attack.
Bit of a generalisation of course.
norman smith@BBCNormanS·3 mins3 minutes ago
Understood former Tory treasurer Lord Fink will sue for defamation if Ed Miliband raises #hsbc claims outside Commons
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4 mins4 minutes ago
Tory sources: Fink lived, worked in Switz+ had salary paid into a Swiss bank account. Ready to sue Miliband if makes allegns outside Commons
Watson used the leveson enquiry to directly call James Murdoch something. Murdoch should have instantly challenged him to repeat the allegation outside parliamentary privilege.
He didn't.
After banging the NHS crisis drum for weeks, only the other day, Labour run Birmingham council announced reduced library opening hours, and R5 had a reporter screaming at the public that they must have noticed all the cuts...the £100's millions of cuts...you must have...you must...no..but what about lists a long number of cuts...no...but you not scared / worried about this...no...ok, back to the studio, yes must be terrifying for some people all these cuts.
Impartial reporting at its best.
They have a picture of Barbie's pink van on the big screen
@GuidoFawkes: Harman looks like she's really enjoying her broadcast outing: http://t.co/SnN8VODvoL
Southampton Itchen....tory gain?
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/howard-woolfenden-birmingham-city-council-8618091
Labour appear to given up on 'policy'.
Ask a post-grad student in say sciences how often they go to a university library now? I bet they will tell you basically never...because all the material is online. What then is important in case of universities is that they subscribe to all the best journals (which many of the lesser universities in this country don't).
Libraries contain more than just books: Local references that you cannot find online, a meeting place for toddler groups, and (of course) public internet access.
They need to evolve, but they still have value in the community.
There will always be a need for say the British Library, but needing your local town "library" is like Kodak claiming still need film cameras (until they went bust).
We should be planning for the future, and getting everybody online were the focus needs to be.
Each and everyone of us avoids tax as and when we can. Je suis tax avoiders.
"Epstein, above right, who was jailed for 13 months in 2008 for soliciting sex with underage girls, was last month accused of employing teenage 'sex slave' Virginia Roberts, who claimed he made her sleep with Prince Andrew when she was 17. Buckingham Palace has denied the Duke of York had 'any form of sexual contact or relationship with Virginia Roberts' and Epstein has called her claims 'outlandish and offensive'."
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/science-technology/librarians-go-like-the-clappers-say-experts-200905131758
Hardly a worry if you were, you would just pay a percentage of anything that was illegal, and then, since you were not actually convicted, you can sue anyone who calls you dodgy.
Software library?
Website library?
Film library?
Library of books on your iPad?
Don't see it disappearing anytime soon.
I guess "community information enabler" doesn't have quite the same erotic potential.
How likely is it that the public simply hear, " Miliband said blah blah banks blah blah tax blah blah" when this issue is brought up?
Hundreds of thousands of people pay themselves via incorporated companies to shelter their income from tax. Many people operate just below the vat threshold, to avoid having to levy and pay VAT.
I used to have an LPG car saved me a fortune, i was able to avoid sixty pence a litre in vat and duty by using lpg instead of petrol.
Guess what, ive even at one point had lodgers, and was able to take advantage of the rent a room scheme allowing me to shelter £4,500 from tax every year. I didnt even need to tell anyone i was doing it!!
We wont even talk about all the schemes used to avoid having to pay inheritance tax, something that those who need it will have systems in place.
April 1st perhaps been pencilled in ?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/02/11/what_to_make_of_john_judis_republican_advantage_125558.html
From various threads I've read, it seems HSBC are getting a bigger kicking over this than the Tories.
If Labour are reduced to this kind of tangential attack lines, they must be in trouble.
For starters he thinks Labour seems to have "no clear idea on how to get the economy growing" or how to reduce the deficit.
He's also co-chair of Business for Britain and so wants us to have a referendum on the EU. He doesn't seem to agree with the Eds on this...
And one for the lefties! In 2013 his company paid £1.5m corporation tax on almost £100m turnover
PS I know this is a bullshit fact - it's true but it doesn't mean his company avoids/evades tax, the 1.5m was on profits of around 8m - but the lefties cream themselves when they read such a thing about non-Lab-supporting entities.
Well done for telling us.
^_~
Q: Did you ask the French if you could use the information to investigate tax evasion and tax avoidance?
Not in those terms, says Homer. But she says things that get written in newspapers do not stand up to the tests needed to secure a conviction in court.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/feb/11/cameron-and-miliband-at-pmqs-politics-live-blog
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_Homer
And this person's in charge of HMRC? Heaven help us.
Unforced errors.
If they can't win on the NHS or equalities what exactly can they win on ?
I mean the one thing that really was a kick in the knackers for them was the polling showing Ed had worse ratings than David Cameron in Glasgow.
A Labour leader with worse ratings than the Old Etonian Toff Tory Leader in GLASGOW
Smoke and fire comes to mind.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dear-harriet-harman-please-just-5144704
The Tories are planning to attack at the optimal time.
They don't want a Dieppe 1942, they want a Normandy 1944
Lynton Crosby = Dwight Eisenhower
David Cameron = Omar Bradley
George Osborne = Jim Gavin