Just listened to Murphy's victory speech. I think Cameron dodged a bullet there. He articulates the Labour position more clearly and coherently than Ed will ever do.
Might we also have a PB competition on the number of "poofters" in Ukip's branch in South Basildon with a tiebreak question on how many brace of "peasants" Farage bags in the annual Boxing Day cull there?
"A UKIP spokesman said they were "the rantings of an angry man" who was on sedatives for an injury at the time." What would he have said if he hadn't been on sedatives?
Colour me a bit sceptical. Sedatives just lower inhibitions a bit, like alcohol, and in vino veritas!
The spokesman's defence was "the rantings of an angry man". With defenders like that who needs critics!
Imagine this fellow in parliament!
Inclined to agree. In a similar vein an elderly relative of my wife is suffering dementia. She rants in quite horrific ways about gays, blacks and any other minority that comes to mind. Friends excuse her by saying (quite kindly) that it must be the dementia. Unfortunately we have to point out that she has always been like this in her views and all that has changed is that she has lost her inhibitions.
He may be, but I find the idea of a political party that wishes to use its representatives to restrain power rather than exercise power very attractive.
This may explain why nobody (except their opponents) cares too much about their manifesto or policy swerves - they will never be in power, but they will restrain the executive, rather than be the executive.
Just listened to Murphy's victory speech. I think Cameron dodged a bullet there. He articulates the Labour position more clearly and coherently than Ed will ever do.
My GP changed my painkillers a year ago and the side effects were hilarious for a day - I became convinced I was invincible and wanted to smite anyone who disagreed with me. Then it wore off. Great fun at the time, if rather peculiar.
Might we also have a PB competition on the number of "poofters" in Ukip's branch in South Basildon with a tiebreak question on how many brace of "peasants" Farage bags in the annual Boxing Day cull there?
"A UKIP spokesman said they were "the rantings of an angry man" who was on sedatives for an injury at the time." What would he have said if he hadn't been on sedatives?
Colour me a bit sceptical. Sedatives just lower inhibitions a bit, like alcohol, and in vino veritas!
The spokesman's defence was "the rantings of an angry man". With defenders like that who needs critics!
Imagine this fellow in parliament!
Inclined to agree. In a similar vein an elderly relative of my wife is suffering dementia. She rants in quite horrific ways about gays, blacks and any other minority that comes to mind. Friends excuse her by saying (quite kindly) that it must be the dementia. Unfortunately we have to point out that she has always been like this in her views and all that has changed is that she has lost her inhibitions.
I'd expect a bounce but not a huge one - doubt if the average voter has been paying that much attention to the lengthy leadership ballot. Murphy's election was a necessary but not yet sufficient condition for a full recovery.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
I live with diversity every day - my village, friends and family are all quite diverse. It's lovely. And no, it's not Burton Bradstock.
What experience do you have of living with diversity? And weren't you the poster who claimed he was afraid of walking through Stepney Green / Whitechapel?
My GP changed my painkillers a year ago and the side effects were hilarious for a day - I became convinced I was invincible and wanted to smite anyone who disagreed with me. Then it wore off. Great fun at the time, if rather peculiar.
Might we also have a PB competition on the number of "poofters" in Ukip's branch in South Basildon with a tiebreak question on how many brace of "peasants" Farage bags in the annual Boxing Day cull there?
"A UKIP spokesman said they were "the rantings of an angry man" who was on sedatives for an injury at the time." What would he have said if he hadn't been on sedatives?
Colour me a bit sceptical. Sedatives just lower inhibitions a bit, like alcohol, and in vino veritas!
The spokesman's defence was "the rantings of an angry man". With defenders like that who needs critics!
Imagine this fellow in parliament!
Inclined to agree. In a similar vein an elderly relative of my wife is suffering dementia. She rants in quite horrific ways about gays, blacks and any other minority that comes to mind. Friends excuse her by saying (quite kindly) that it must be the dementia. Unfortunately we have to point out that she has always been like this in her views and all that has changed is that she has lost her inhibitions.
"In tape-recorded phone calls leaked to The Mail on Sunday..."
Just out of interest. What exactly is the legal status of taping someones phone calls and publishing them in national newspapers?
So far you have blamed sedatives, Libservatives, the Mail, the law and the entire town of Chigwell.
Cameron, the EU, Walnut whips, Somalians, the lizard people and Russell Brand must be feeling left out.
I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just trying to explain why every time the newspapers run stories like this the UKIP vote goes up not down.
Does their vote go up?. I'm a pretty casual observer of these things but I get the impression that wherever kippers actually hold power they lose votes at the next available opportunity. (Local elections) as for their polling figure they seem to pick up a lot of support room the DNV pool, who if history is anything to go by will not vote next time either.
Might we also have a PB competition on the number of "poofters" in Ukip's branch in South Basildon with a tiebreak question on how many brace of "peasants" Farage bags in the annual Boxing Day cull there?
"A UKIP spokesman said they were "the rantings of an angry man" who was on sedatives for an injury at the time." What would he have said if he hadn't been on sedatives?
Colour me a bit sceptical. Sedatives just lower inhibitions a bit, like alcohol, and in vino veritas!
The spokesman's defence was "the rantings of an angry man". With defenders like that who needs critics!
Imagine this fellow in parliament!
Inclined to agree. In a similar vein an elderly relative of my wife is suffering dementia. She rants in quite horrific ways about gays, blacks and any other minority that comes to mind. Friends excuse her by saying (quite kindly) that it must be the dementia. Unfortunately we have to point out that she has always been like this in her views and all that has changed is that she has lost her inhibitions.
Rather cruel, if I may say so.
Surely one's inhibitions are part of one's personality. If they are taken away by prescription drugs or impairment, surely your personality has been changed, not that you've changed your personality.
Surely through growing up we learn to control are baser selves? Or do you yourself not possess one which emerges when you have a dark night of the soul?
My GP changed my painkillers a year ago and the side effects were hilarious for a day - I became convinced I was invincible and wanted to smite anyone who disagreed with me. Then it wore off. Great fun at the time, if rather peculiar.
Might we also have a PB competition on the number of "poofters" in Ukip's branch in South Basildon with a tiebreak question on how many brace of "peasants" Farage bags in the annual Boxing Day cull there?
"A UKIP spokesman said they were "the rantings of an angry man" who was on sedatives for an injury at the time." What would he have said if he hadn't been on sedatives?
Colour me a bit sceptical. Sedatives just lower inhibitions a bit, like alcohol, and in vino veritas!
The spokesman's defence was "the rantings of an angry man". With defenders like that who needs critics!
Imagine this fellow in parliament!
Inclined to agree. In a similar vein an elderly relative of my wife is suffering dementia. She rants in quite horrific ways about gays, blacks and any other minority that comes to mind. Friends excuse her by saying (quite kindly) that it must be the dementia. Unfortunately we have to point out that she has always been like this in her views and all that has changed is that she has lost her inhibitions.
I'd expect a bounce but not a huge one - doubt if the average voter has been paying that much attention to the lengthy leadership ballot. Murphy's election was a necessary but not yet sufficient condition for a full recovery.
That sounds about right. Labour can now reasonably hope that their position will not deteriorate further. To win voters back for May they must hope either that the SNP starts overreaching or that they are able to put together and communicate a positive prospectus for voting Labour in Scotland. Time is short.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
I live with diversity every day - my village, friends and family are all quite diverse. It's lovely. And no, it's not Burton Bradstock.
What experience do you have of living with diversity? And weren't you the poster who claimed he was afraid of walking through Stepney Green / Whitechapel?
I was that poster, and what I said was that coming out of Whitechapel Station and walking past the market to visit my client you could easily believe you were in a different country. Try it some time and see what you think.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
I'd expect a bounce but not a huge one - doubt if the average voter has been paying that much attention to the lengthy leadership ballot. Murphy's election was a necessary but not yet sufficient condition for a full recovery.
I agree with that but his position on making Scotland the fairest country on earth is (despite being a very bad pun) clever positioning. He is going to campaign on how the SNP's catastrophic education policies have let down the poor and disadvantaged, how their failure to modernise the NHS has resulted in excessive bureaucracy and limited resources where they count and about how little has been done about the shocking state of public sector housing in Scotland.
Such attacks will demonstrate how little the SNP have done for Scots with their majority in Holyrood while they obsessed with the neverendum and will make it very difficult for Sturgeon to outflank him to the left as she plans. Sturgeon is smart enough to see the risks and sacking incompetents like Russell was a good start but she has got years of bureaucratic, centralising inertia to explain away and it will be a challenge.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
I'd expect a bounce but not a huge one - doubt if the average voter has been paying that much attention to the lengthy leadership ballot. Murphy's election was a necessary but not yet sufficient condition for a full recovery.
That sounds about right. Labour can now reasonably hope that their position will not deteriorate further. To win voters back for May they must hope either that the SNP starts overreaching or that they are able to put together and communicate a positive prospectus for voting Labour in Scotland. Time is short.
I would anticipate the some sort of large row will be confected with London Labour within the next couple of months to allow Mr Murphy to demonstrate his independence from them. I am sure a tacit agreement will be reached on areas where Murphy can maneuver his tanks without London interfering.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
What about those from other parties that issue anti-semitic statements such as Tonge and Ward, do they make your skin crawl as well?
And can you answer my question about womens rights and homophobia amongst Muslims please.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
Do the PB Tories who make references to 'ragheads' and 'fuzzywuzzies' also make your skin crawl ?
"Sturgeon........... has got years of bureaucratic, centralising inertia to explain away and it will be a challenge."
I think you will find that much of the electorate do not regard that as the reality. Murphy has very little chance at all of winning more seats for Labour than the SNP in Holyrood 2016.
What he does have is the old claim -vote Labour to stop the Tories in GE 2015.
The battleground is whether or not that is trumped by the SNP claims:
* You tried that last time and it did not work
* What difference does it really make to elect Miliband (who you do not rate) and the Red Tories rather than the Blue Tories?
* There is a good chance that a group of SNP MPs will achieve much more for Scotland than sending a group of mostly anonymous Labour MPs to Westminster yet again.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
I live with diversity every day - my village, friends and family are all quite diverse. It's lovely. And no, it's not Burton Bradstock.
What experience do you have of living with diversity? And weren't you the poster who claimed he was afraid of walking through Stepney Green / Whitechapel?
I was that poster, and what I said was that coming out of Whitechapel Station and walking past the market to visit my client you could easily believe you were in a different country. Try it some time and see what you think.
I'm pretty sure you expressed fear, which (if my memory is correct) was fairly ridiculous. And yes, I have tried it, most recently earlier this year when we walked from Mile End to the theatre in Aldwych, on the way seeing and enjoying so many different aspects of London life.
If you engage nicely with people, the vast majority of people will engage nicely with you. If you fear them, you should expect some to feel the same way towards you.
As an aside, when I lived in Stepney 20 years ago, I was chucking in university to start work. I'd frequently walk places, and once I was stopped by these young kids who asked me if I was a policeman. When I asked why they thought I was one, they said it was because I was wearing a white shirt. Evidently they saw very few people in white shirts on their estate, and the ones who did wear them were policemen ...
Still not as funny as the kids who asked me the same question on the outskirts of March, near the end of a 20-mile hike. I was quite unsure how they mistook this sweaty, bearded loon carrying a heavy pack for a policeman!
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
Do the PB Tories who make references to 'ragheads' and 'fuzzywuzzies' also make your skin crawl ?
You forgot to mention the ones that obsess about people having brown skins, and "ting-tong" all the time.
Christmas stuff got in the way of catching up with the threads yesterday and today looks more of the same. But I am glad that Jim Murphy won.
His next challenge has to be to get into Holyrood and out of Westminster soonest. This site is understandably focussed on the implications of a Labour melt down in May of next year making it much more difficult for Labour to be the largest party but one of Salmond's successes is that for Scottish politics Holyrood is where the action is and where the leader needs to be.
In my opinion the base of SNP strength is not the losing of the referendum but their control of Holyrood. That is why I was forecasting the SNP would have gains in May next year over a year ago despite expecting the referendum to decide No.
It is a bit like what the Lib Dems do on a smaller scale using their activists and ultimately control of the local council to consolidate the position of their MP but on a larger scale. The key to diminishing the SNP in Scotland is to win back or at least remove the SNP majority in Holyrood. While they have that they will have a dominant position in Scottish politics. That is Murphy's challenge and he can't do it from Westminster.
I think Jim Murphy becoming the SLAB leader is probably already baked into SLAB’s support level of around 25%. I do not foresee Murphy being able to attract back any of the SLAB supporters currently backing the SNP. However, he may prevent further leakage of support to UKIP, but his right wing credentials will most likely drive more of SLAB’s remaining supporters into the arms of the Greens, LibDems, SNP and even the SSP.
I remain sceptical whether Jim will ever actually seek a seat in Holyrood, as there does not seem to be any easy path into Holyrood. However bad things get for SLAB in May 2015, they will likely do even worse in Holyrood 2016. This is due to the vagaries of the D’Hondt method, which Labour introduced to Scotland to ensure that the SNP would never get a majority. Based on current polling the SNP would win virtually all of the constituency seats. Therefore, unless the SNP are expected to get around 55-60% of the regional vote in a region, in which case D’Hondt would work in their favour, most of the SNP regional votes are going to be wasted. Therefore, I would expect SNP tactical voting on a grand scale and anticipate the Green’s being the major beneficiary of these votes. The Greens could end up snapping at SLAB’s heels for second place – I wonder what the odds on this outcome would be !!
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
Do the PB Tories who make references to 'ragheads' and 'fuzzywuzzies' also make your skin crawl ?
Yes, what about you? I get sick of reading people excuse bad behaviour from one of their tribe by immediately saying yebbut what about (insert tribe here). If its wrong, its wrong, regardless of who says it.
Might we also have a PB competition on the number of "poofters" in Ukip's branch in South Basildon with a tiebreak question on how many brace of "peasants" Farage bags in the annual Boxing Day cull there?
"A UKIP spokesman said they were "the rantings of an angry man" who was on sedatives for an injury at the time." What would he have said if he hadn't been on sedatives?
Colour me a bit sceptical. Sedatives just lower inhibitions a bit, like alcohol, and in vino veritas!
The spokesman's defence was "the rantings of an angry man". With defenders like that who needs critics!
Imagine this fellow in parliament!
He'd probably be like Dive Evans or Terry Dicks.
I first met Kerry Smith a long time ago, when he was a Conservative activist and candidate in Barking and Dagenham. I thought he was unsuitable to be a candidate then, and it doesn't seem he has improved. Hopefully, John Baron will cross the floor.
I'd expect a bounce but not a huge one - doubt if the average voter has been paying that much attention to the lengthy leadership ballot. Murphy's election was a necessary but not yet sufficient condition for a full recovery.
That sounds about right. Labour can now reasonably hope that their position will not deteriorate further. To win voters back for May they must hope either that the SNP starts overreaching or that they are able to put together and communicate a positive prospectus for voting Labour in Scotland. Time is short.
I would anticipate the some sort of large row will be confected with London Labour within the next couple of months to allow Mr Murphy to demonstrate his independence from them.
From what I've seen and read of Mr Murphy, I suspect he's quite capable of having some genuine rows - that his pathetic pygmy predecessor has teen the huff shows at least what a low base he is operating against. Apart from wanting someone to take the fight to the SNP from the left, I suspect the diverging poll ratings of Labour in Scotland and England over the run up to the GE will make Ed's life all the more interesting. The media have decided they like Jim & they don't like Ed......
I seem to recall that this woman was interviewed about her book and she was as much of a nasty piece of work that you would expect without ever having met her.
From WIKI
In September 2014, in an interview published in the Guardian, Mantel confessed to fantasizing about the murdering of Margaret Thatcher in 1983, and fictionalized the event in a short story called 'The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher: 6 August 1983'. In the interview she expands on her hatred for the former British prime minister.
RT @CameronYardeJnr: Was Christmas TV better in the old days? Christmas Day on BBC1 in 1988. You decide. pic.twitter.com/GL4haWwOxB
Looks like there is probably less repeats there than you get now ;-)
Also most people will have taken one look at that lot and turned the TV off, maybe put on some music and talked with their family, played board games, possibly started a game of Charades. Of course these days everyone take one look at 400 channels of cr@p, turns the TV off, and sits around the place staring at their tablets and phones and ignoring each other. Not sure its a step forward tbh,
"Sturgeon........... has got years of bureaucratic, centralising inertia to explain away and it will be a challenge."
I think you will find that much of the electorate do not regard that as the reality. Murphy has very little chance at all of winning more seats for Labour than the SNP in Holyrood 2016.
What he does have is the old claim -vote Labour to stop the Tories in GE 2015.
The battleground is whether or not that is trumped by the SNP claims:
* You tried that last time and it did not work
* What difference does it really make to elect Miliband (who you do not rate) and the Red Tories rather than the Blue Tories?
* There is a good chance that a group of SNP MPs will achieve much more for Scotland than sending a group of mostly anonymous Labour MPs to Westminster yet again.
I don't see what sending a large group of SNP MPs to Westminster will do for Scotland other than ensure that there is no chance of a significant percentage of our MPs being a part of a government and having the ear of ministers. The 6 SNPs in this Parliament have hardly been high profile or influential.
But, as I have already said this morning, I agree with you that the real battle ground is Holyrood 2016. Can the SNP repeat their 2011 triumph? That is Murphy's challenge and I am not suggesting it is an easy one for him, just that he has started well and positioned himself well for the battle.
I also agree that Ed is Murphy's (and Labour's) biggest problem. For a Labour leader to consistently poll behind a Tory PM in Scotland is some feat.
I seem to recall that this woman was interviewed about her book and she was as much of a nasty piece of work that you would expect without ever having met her.
From WIKI
In September 2014, in an interview published in the Guardian, Mantel confessed to fantasizing about the murdering of Margaret Thatcher in 1983, and fictionalized the event in a short story called 'The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher: 6 August 1983'. In the interview she expands on her hatred for the former British prime minister.
The word that is missing is her IRRATIONAL hatred
Indeed, she should stay away from contemporary writing, her books "Wolf Hall" and "Bring Up The Bodies" about the life of Thomas Cromwell, the Secretary to the Council of Henry VIII were excellent.
Surely a 'peasant's hunt' is a hunt by a single peasant. And since it was a quote - how can the BBC know if it was peasants or peasant's ? I suspect Kerry really meant *bien peasant* hunt :^ )
Be careful, the report says he spoke of organising a "a peasant's hunt through Chigwell village". Unless, the BBC is ungrammatical, that means a hunt by peasants to overthrow their rightful masters.
Not something, I thought you'd be happy with.
No - he was mimicking some of the braying boors that I knew (but didn't associate with) at university.
Instead of shooting "pheasants" you shoot "peasants".
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
Do the PB Tories who make references to 'ragheads' and 'fuzzywuzzies' also make your skin crawl ?
Yes, what about you? I get sick of reading people excuse bad behaviour from one of their tribe by immediately saying yebbut what about (insert tribe here). If its wrong, its wrong, regardless of who says it.
I agree with you on that, but surely the most striking example is easy to remember?
Just last week in THURROCK of all places, a Conservative leaflet was distributed referencing UKIP candidate Tim Aker by his full name of Timur to highlight his Turkish heritage. This was placed next to pictures of Islamic terrorists and and references to the Conservative candidate being a local where as "Timur" wasn't.
That day the Tory MP for Thurrock, Jackie Doyle-Price was tweeting from a Jim Davidson gig, saying "I salute you"
I mentioned it tirelessly on here, saying if it were UKIP that had done this, the site would be in meltdown from faux outrage. The only non Kipper criticism came from AntiFrank. TGOHF said "Tim Aker should man up"
As if by magic, to prove my point, today we have some unpleasant utterances from a UKIP candidate in the other Thurrock seat.. and JackW, TGOHF, Marquee Mark et al are tripping over themselves to be outraged. It is pathetic, playground behaviour.
They pick and choose when to be offended depending on who said it, not what was said.
Might we also have a PB competition on the number of "poofters" in Ukip's branch in South Basildon with a tiebreak question on how many brace of "peasants" Farage bags in the annual Boxing Day cull there?
"A UKIP spokesman said they were "the rantings of an angry man" who was on sedatives for an injury at the time." What would he have said if he hadn't been on sedatives?
Colour me a bit sceptical. Sedatives just lower inhibitions a bit, like alcohol, and in vino veritas!
The spokesman's defence was "the rantings of an angry man". With defenders like that who needs critics!
Imagine this fellow in parliament!
He'd probably be like Dive Evans or Terry Dicks.
I first met Kerry Smith a long time ago, when he was a Conservative activist and candidate in Barking and Dagenham. I thought he was unsuitable to be a candidate then, and it doesn't seem he has improved. Hopefully, John Baron will cross the floor.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
Not even the AP allows the use of the term 'homophobia' anymore, it's a nonsense that conflates a simple healthy dislike of unnatural behaviour with a psychological condition.
The government's strategy of non-action stretches to the top. Yet there was a time when David Cameron had plenty to say about individual cases and plenty of demands that governments intervene. That time was when he was Leader of the Opposition:
' The Tory leader said he would not flinch from raising the case as he believed it was symptomatic of levels of social breakdown in Britain.
"I think when things like this happen it is right to stand back, reflect and ask ourselves some deep questions about what is going wrong in our society," he told an audience at a community centre in Gillingham.
Mr Cameron denied that his frequent references to a "broken Britain" was an over-statement and "terrible crimes" such as those which had happened in Doncaster could not be ignored.
"I don't think it is right every time one of these events takes place to say that it is just some isolated incident of evil that we should look away from and forget about."
"Are we going to do that every time there is a Jamie Bulger or a Baby Peter or a Ben Kinsella or a Gary Newlove or what has happened in Doncaster? We shouldn't. We should ask about what has gone wrong with our society and what we are going to do about it."
And he hit back at critics who have accused him of exploiting the Doncaster case for political ends, saying: "I think it is right to raise it in a responsible way and it is right to have this debate about how we can strengthen our society." '
Now compare Cameron's response to Rotherham - said nothing, done nothing.
Even though Rotherham MP Sarah Champion has said she has spoken to Cameron (and Theresa May) multiple times stressing that it is a national problem.
There is a famous quote attributed to Edmund Burke which is much liked by Conservatives.
So why has this government allowed evil to triumph in Rotherham by doing nothing ?
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
Do the PB Tories who make references to 'ragheads' and 'fuzzywuzzies' also make your skin crawl ?
Yes, what about you? I get sick of reading people excuse bad behaviour from one of their tribe by immediately saying yebbut what about (insert tribe here). If its wrong, its wrong, regardless of who says it.
I totally agree with that and have stated many times on here that I find tribal politics both childish and depressing, when I had a dig just now I was pointing out the hypocrisy that is all.
I'm scared of Whitechapel. And been accused of being a racist on here for saying so.
I got on the wrong Tube and alighted at Whitechapel to be met with menacing groups of Muslim men who clearly thought I was White Trash.
I don't scare easy - at all, but I was unnerved. I was at college in Camberwell which is a step down from Peckham. And hail from the rough end of Newcastle.
Diversity isn't some catch all excuse to negate others genuine fears and concerns.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
I live with diversity every day - my village, friends and family are all quite diverse. It's lovely. And no, it's not Burton Bradstock.
What experience do you have of living with diversity? And weren't you the poster who claimed he was afraid of walking through Stepney Green / Whitechapel?
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters. Many or most of them support UKIP's most controversial ideas, from zero net migration to the death penalty to banning the burqa or, of course, quitting the EU.
The people who are genuinely "horrified" by UKIP are the urban lefty middle classes who are, I suspect, TRULY and cordially despised by the majority of Brits, hence the gruesome unpopularity of all major political parties and their leaders.
AND very committed Conservatives, who blame UKIP for splitting the vote. Kerry Smith's views were okay when he was a Conservative candidate.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters. Many or most of them support UKIP's most controversial ideas, from zero net migration to the death penalty to banning the burqa or, of course, quitting the EU.
The people who are genuinely "horrified" by UKIP are the urban lefty middle classes who are, I suspect, TRULY and cordially despised by the majority of Brits, hence the gruesome unpopularity of all major political parties and their leaders.
AND very committed Conservatives, who blame UKIP for splitting the vote. Kerry Smith's views were okay when he was a Conservative candidate.
The most depressing thing about these revelations is that UKIP high command apparently knew all about Mr Smith's views and decided that they didn't matter so long as no one found out about them.
I seem to recall that this woman was interviewed about her book and she was as much of a nasty piece of work that you would expect without ever having met her.
From WIKI
In September 2014, in an interview published in the Guardian, Mantel confessed to fantasizing about the murdering of Margaret Thatcher in 1983, and fictionalized the event in a short story called 'The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher: 6 August 1983'. In the interview she expands on her hatred for the former British prime minister.
The word that is missing is her IRRATIONAL hatred
Indeed, she should stay away from contemporary writing, her books "Wolf Hall" and "Bring Up The Bodies" about the life of Thomas Cromwell, the Secretary to the Council of Henry VIII were excellent.
I couldn't give a toss how good they are, I wouldn't read anything of hers on principle.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters. Many or most of them support UKIP's most controversial ideas, from zero net migration to the death penalty to banning the burqa or, of course, quitting the EU.
The people who are genuinely "horrified" by UKIP are the urban lefty middle classes who are, I suspect, TRULY and cordially despised by the majority of Brits, hence the gruesome unpopularity of all major political parties and their leaders.
"The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters"
Last night half a dozen mates and me went to my local for a few beers.. as it was my birthday I was allowed to talk about politics for 5 mins... every one of them said they were going to vote UKIP, but also said they don't like to mention it in case people think bad of them...
FWIW they all said they wouldn't have their wives/girlfriends breastfeed in public either, said it was for exhibitionists.
PBers would probably consider me and my mates as oiks, but we are actually relatively well to do for Hornchurch
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters. Many or most of them support UKIP's most controversial ideas, from zero net migration to the death penalty to banning the burqa or, of course, quitting the EU.
The people who are genuinely "horrified" by UKIP are the urban lefty middle classes who are, I suspect, TRULY and cordially despised by the majority of Brits, hence the gruesome unpopularity of all major political parties and their leaders.
AND very committed Conservatives, who blame UKIP for splitting the vote. Kerry Smith's views were okay when he was a Conservative candidate.
The most depressing thing about these revelations is that UKIP high command apparently knew all about Mr Smith's views and decided that they didn't matter so long as no one found out about them.
I suspect the same is true about the contents of every "black book" in every parties Whips Office. The sort of Alpha personalities that want to become MPs tend to be "adventurous" and "strong minded" and get up to, and say all sorts of stuff that wouldn't look good on the front of the Daily Mail. Thats why you need someone who "puts some stick about, make'em jump" ;-)
I seem to recall that this woman was interviewed about her book and she was as much of a nasty piece of work that you would expect without ever having met her.
From WIKI
In September 2014, in an interview published in the Guardian, Mantel confessed to fantasizing about the murdering of Margaret Thatcher in 1983, and fictionalized the event in a short story called 'The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher: 6 August 1983'. In the interview she expands on her hatred for the former British prime minister.
The word that is missing is her IRRATIONAL hatred
Indeed, she should stay away from contemporary writing, her books "Wolf Hall" and "Bring Up The Bodies" about the life of Thomas Cromwell, the Secretary to the Council of Henry VIII were excellent.
I couldn't give a toss how good they are, I wouldn't read anything of hers on principle.
On the same logic you wouldn't read Le Morte D'Arthur because Thomas Malory was a convicted rapist. Bad people can produce great work.
Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies are great works.
I disagree - one's public persona is what drugs leech away - so you just show more of what you really think and feel than you'd normally allow.
Your inner bully/comformist is ditched and you run wild and have fun instead.
I had a very good friend who became someone totally different when high on cannabis - dark, angry, vengeful, a Scarfe cartoonist. When I thought about his life when sober - I could see it all hidden and wondered how I never noticed what laid beneath his shy, self conscious, nerdy persona.
Might we also have a PB competition on the number of "poofters" in Ukip's branch in South Basildon with a tiebreak question on how many brace of "peasants" Farage bags in the annual Boxing Day cull there?
"A UKIP spokesman said they were "the rantings of an angry man" who was on sedatives for an injury at the time." What would he have said if he hadn't been on sedatives?
Colour me a bit sceptical. Sedatives just lower inhibitions a bit, like alcohol, and in vino veritas!
The spokesman's defence was "the rantings of an angry man". With defenders like that who needs critics!
Imagine this fellow in parliament!
Inclined to agree. In a similar vein an elderly relative of my wife is suffering dementia. She rants in quite horrific ways about gays, blacks and any other minority that comes to mind. Friends excuse her by saying (quite kindly) that it must be the dementia. Unfortunately we have to point out that she has always been like this in her views and all that has changed is that she has lost her inhibitions.
Rather cruel, if I may say so.
Surely one's inhibitions are part of one's personality. If they are taken away by prescription drugs or impairment, surely your personality has been changed, not that you've changed your personality.
Surely through growing up we learn to control are baser selves? Or do you yourself not possess one which emerges when you have a dark night of the soul?
"Sturgeon........... has got years of bureaucratic, centralising inertia to explain away and it will be a challenge."
I think you will find that much of the electorate do not regard that as the reality. Murphy has very little chance at all of winning more seats for Labour than the SNP in Holyrood 2016.
What he does have is the old claim -vote Labour to stop the Tories in GE 2015.
The battleground is whether or not that is trumped by the SNP claims:
* You tried that last time and it did not work
* What difference does it really make to elect Miliband (who you do not rate) and the Red Tories rather than the Blue Tories?
* There is a good chance that a group of SNP MPs will achieve much more for Scotland than sending a group of mostly anonymous Labour MPs to Westminster yet again.
For a Labour leader to consistently poll behind a Tory PM in Scotland is some feat.
I still can't get my head round that......I check every time YouGov measure it, just to make sure - and its as bad as ever - and its not even close - not 'a bit worse than' - but 'worse than'.
The other interesting perspective in today's YouGov is that while Scots do not see themselves as significantly more left wing than the rest of the UK, they do see Labour and Miliband as less left-wing - in contrast to the other parties/leaders, which they rate very similarly to the rest of the UK.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters. Many or most of them support UKIP's most controversial ideas, from zero net migration to the death penalty to banning the burqa or, of course, quitting the EU.
The people who are genuinely "horrified" by UKIP are the urban lefty middle classes who are, I suspect, TRULY and cordially despised by the majority of Brits, hence the gruesome unpopularity of all major political parties and their leaders.
AND very committed Conservatives, who blame UKIP for splitting the vote. Kerry Smith's views were okay when he was a Conservative candidate.
The most depressing thing about these revelations is that UKIP high command apparently knew all about Mr Smith's views and decided that they didn't matter so long as no one found out about them.
how's that more depressing than any other party ?
do other parties regularly sweep their Augean stables or just decide not rocking the boat is easier ?
Last year's polls don't win you MPs. Actually the only thing that get Kippers a seat is a defection...
Not defections, elections. UKIP can't magically increase the number of their MPs until there is an election.
UKIP look set to elect a number of their candidates in May 2015. I don't see why you have such a hard time accepting this. Their best case scenario probably tops out ~40. Ladbrokes have set their over/under UKIP seat market around 7.5
I recently decided against buying a book based on its use of CE and BCE. If a historian is a revisionist about the bloody calendar that both irritates me in itself and makes me wonder whether he'll be wearing politically correct goggles for the rest of his work.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters. Many or most of them support UKIP's most controversial ideas, from zero net migration to the death penalty to banning the burqa or, of course, quitting the EU.
The people who are genuinely "horrified" by UKIP are the urban lefty middle classes who are, I suspect, TRULY and cordially despised by the majority of Brits, hence the gruesome unpopularity of all major political parties and their leaders.
AND very committed Conservatives, who blame UKIP for splitting the vote. Kerry Smith's views were okay when he was a Conservative candidate.
The most depressing thing about these revelations is that UKIP high command apparently knew all about Mr Smith's views and decided that they didn't matter so long as no one found out about them.
Well they deselected him and tried to force two other candidates in his place before he was reinstated, so hopefully that might ease the weight of your black dog
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters. Many or most of them support UKIP's most controversial ideas, from zero net migration to the death penalty to banning the burqa or, of course, quitting the EU.
The people who are genuinely "horrified" by UKIP are the urban lefty middle classes who are, I suspect, TRULY and cordially despised by the majority of Brits, hence the gruesome unpopularity of all major political parties and their leaders.
"The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters"
Last night half a dozen mates and me went to my local for a few beers.. as it was my birthday I was allowed to talk about politics for 5 mins... every one of them said they were going to vote UKIP, but also said they don't like to mention it in case people think bad of them...
FWIW they all said they wouldn't have their wives/girlfriends breastfeed in public either, said it was for exhibitionists.
PBers would probably consider me and my mates as oiks, but we are actually relatively well to do for Hornchurch
I'm scared of Whitechapel. And been accused of being a racist on here for saying so.
I got on the wrong Tube and alighted at Whitechapel to be met with menacing groups of Muslim men who clearly thought I was White Trash.
I don't scare easy - at all, but I was unnerved. I was at college in Camberwell which is a step down from Peckham. And hail from the rough end of Newcastle.
Diversity isn't some catch all excuse to negate others genuine fears and concerns.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
I live with diversity every day - my village, friends and family are all quite diverse. It's lovely. And no, it's not Burton Bradstock.
What experience do you have of living with diversity? And weren't you the poster who claimed he was afraid of walking through Stepney Green / Whitechapel?
Fair enough. I'm sorry you had that experience, and would not call you racist for feeling it.
I hope it doesn't put you off Whitechapel too much - it's well worth a stroll through, even if it is just to the Whitechapel Gallery: http://www.whitechapelgallery.org/
I love that area, even if I don't get to go back there very much. It will be interesting to see if and how it changes when Crossrail arrives in a few years - I guess the yuppisation creeping up from the City will accelerate, and the area will lose something.
I seem to recall that this woman was interviewed about her book and she was as much of a nasty piece of work that you would expect without ever having met her.
From WIKI
In September 2014, in an interview published in the Guardian, Mantel confessed to fantasizing about the murdering of Margaret Thatcher in 1983, and fictionalized the event in a short story called 'The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher: 6 August 1983'. In the interview she expands on her hatred for the former British prime minister.
The word that is missing is her IRRATIONAL hatred
Indeed, she should stay away from contemporary writing, her books "Wolf Hall" and "Bring Up The Bodies" about the life of Thomas Cromwell, the Secretary to the Council of Henry VIII were excellent.
I couldn't give a toss how good they are, I wouldn't read anything of hers on principle.
On the same logic you wouldn't read Le Morte D'Arthur because Thomas Malory was a convicted rapist. Bad people can produce great work.
Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies are great works.
they may well be , but I would give such a nasty person a cent of my hard earned cash
Mr. T, it was interesting that on Have I Got News For You, Reginald D. Hunter pointed out that Kirsty Wark and Ian Hislop were attacking Farage for something he hadn't actually said.
Of late, the programme's sometimes seemed like a dinner party where the left and right of mainstream parties repeatedly agree that UKIP is ghastly.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
homophobia....... a simple healthy dislike of unnatural behaviour
Where to start.....
What is 'healthy' about disliking someone for an innate trait?
Is it 'healthy' to dislike people with blue eyes or blonde hair?
Why is it 'unnatural' given people, to quote a song are 'Born this way'?
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
Do the PB Tories who make references to 'ragheads' and 'fuzzywuzzies' also make your skin crawl ?
I recently decided against buying a book based on its use of CE and BCE. If a historian is a revisionist about the bloody calendar that both irritates me in itself and makes me wonder whether he'll be wearing politically correct goggles for the rest of his work.
Good morning all; not another morning about the evils of Ukipism, is it? BTW belated birthday wishes to isam. Have one on me, and if we meet at the next PB do I'll pay up.
Good morning all; not another morning about the evils of Ukipism, is it? BTW belated birthday wishes to isam. Have one on me, and if we meet at the next PB do I'll pay up.
I think I had the pleasure of meeting you at the PB bash early last year (last month's was the first one I'd been to in 18 months or so).
Surely a 'peasant's hunt' is a hunt by a single peasant. And since it was a quote - how can the BBC know if it was peasants or peasant's ? I suspect Kerry really meant *bien peasant* hunt :^ )
Be careful, the report says he spoke of organising a "a peasant's hunt through Chigwell village". Unless, the BBC is ungrammatical, that means a hunt by peasants to overthrow their rightful masters.
Not something, I thought you'd be happy with.
No - he was mimicking some of the braying boors that I knew (but didn't associate with) at university.
Instead of shooting "pheasants" you shoot "peasants".
"In tape-recorded phone calls leaked to The Mail on Sunday..."
Just out of interest. What exactly is the legal status of taping someones phone calls and publishing them in national newspapers?
AIUI it was originally sent to the UKIP NEC - hence his initial deselection.
I would imagine that you could argue a "public interest" defence in this situation, though, as he is putting himself forward as a candidate for election
Good morning all; not another morning about the evils of Ukipism, is it? BTW belated birthday wishes to isam. Have one on me, and if we meet at the next PB do I'll pay up.
Thank you both.
Yes its another morning of UKIP bashing from the hypocrites that don't criticise Tory ethnic baiting...
If UKIP are JackW's stroppy teenager, it seems the Tories are the middle aged parent "Do as I say not as I do"
Good morning all; not another morning about the evils of Ukipism, is it? BTW belated birthday wishes to isam. Have one on me, and if we meet at the next PB do I'll pay up.
I think I had the pleasure of meeting you at the PB bash early last year (last month's was the first one I'd been to in 18 months or so).
Yes we did meet and spoke in a group with Fat Steve, sharing a red between us.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters. Many or most of them support UKIP's most controversial ideas, from zero net migration to the death penalty to banning the burqa or, of course, quitting the EU.
The people who are genuinely "horrified" by UKIP are the urban lefty middle classes who are, I suspect, TRULY and cordially despised by the majority of Brits, hence the gruesome unpopularity of all major political parties and their leaders.
AND very committed Conservatives, who blame UKIP for splitting the vote. Kerry Smith's views were okay when he was a Conservative candidate.
The most depressing thing about these revelations is that UKIP high command apparently knew all about Mr Smith's views and decided that they didn't matter so long as no one found out about them.
They did try to remove him as a PPC, but the replacements were less than optimal.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
homophobia....... a simple healthy dislike of unnatural behaviour
Where to start.....
What is 'healthy' about disliking someone for an innate trait?
Is it 'healthy' to dislike people with blue eyes or blonde hair?
Why is it 'unnatural' given people, to quote a song are 'Born this way'?
Murderers and paedophiles are born that way too.
I am not aware of blond hair and blue eyes leading to negative behaviour, positive indeed, despite what the Karate Kid would lead one to believe.
You just don't get it, do you. It is precisely because he refers to "Chinks", "Pooftahs" and "Peasants" (the later meaning jumped up working class people who think they are in the elite), and that using such language causes a fit of the vapours among right thinking people that he is attracting far more votes than he loses.
You just don't get it, do you.
Each of those terms is simply offensive name-calling.
It doesn't add anything to political discourse.
As my grandfather used to say: "Never offend someone unnecessarily" (along with "never make an enemy unintentionally", it's one of my favourite lessons)
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
homophobia....... a simple healthy dislike of unnatural behaviour
Where to start.....
What is 'healthy' about disliking someone for an innate trait?
Is it 'healthy' to dislike people with blue eyes or blonde hair?
Why is it 'unnatural' given people, to quote a song are 'Born this way'?
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters. Many or most of them support UKIP's most controversial ideas, from zero net migration to the death penalty to banning the burqa or, of course, quitting the EU.
The people who are genuinely "horrified" by UKIP are the urban lefty middle classes who are, I suspect, TRULY and cordially despised by the majority of Brits, hence the gruesome unpopularity of all major political parties and their leaders.
AND very committed Conservatives, who blame UKIP for splitting the vote. Kerry Smith's views were okay when he was a Conservative candidate.
The most depressing thing about these revelations is that UKIP high command apparently knew all about Mr Smith's views and decided that they didn't matter so long as no one found out about them.
Why is that so "depressing"? The same could probably be said about the personal opinions or private lives of, literally, thousands of prospective parliamentary candidates, of all parties. Man is made from crooked timber.
It is only your hatred/fear of UKIP which makes you hyperbolic. It is quite a phenomenon, this UKIP hatred.
Politics attracts more than its fair share of unsavoury people. UKIP is no exception to this general rule.
You just don't get it, do you. It is precisely because he refers to "Chinks", "Pooftahs" and "Peasants" (the later meaning jumped up working class people who think they are in the elite), and that using such language causes a fit of the vapours among right thinking people that he is attracting far more votes than he loses.
You just don't get it, do you.
Each of those terms is simply offensive name-calling.
It doesn't add anything to political discourse.
As my grandfather used to say: "Never offend someone unnecessarily" (along with "never make an enemy unintentionally", it's one of my favourite lessons)
It wasn't part of political discourse. It was said in a private telephone conversation that some S**t taped and passed onto a national newspaper.
Things said in private conversations have different thresholds to public speeches.
And frankly I can't see much difference between hacking someones voicemail and using the information or publishing it and taping someones phonecall (presumably without their consent) and using it in that way.
A very good friend of mine is voting Kipper - he left London [Morden] to get away from the crime and multi-culti schooling that he felt was harming his kids' education.
He doesn't like gay marriage [or public gayness as it makes him uncomfortable], he's a White Van Man, very traditional WWC. He'd never approve of public breastfeeding as it's uncivilised in his view. Death penalty to paedos sort. And a huge England supporter. He's a walking UKIP voter - complete with tattoos.
He's mid 30s and a self employed builder. And smart.
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
snip
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters. Many or most of them support UKIP's most controversial ideas, from zero net migration to the death penalty to banning the burqa or, of course, quitting the EU.
The people who are genuinely "horrified" by UKIP are the urban lefty middle classes who are, I suspect, TRULY and cordially despised by the majority of Brits, hence the gruesome unpopularity of all major political parties and their leaders.
"The great majority of decent Brits do not despise UKIP, though they may nervously affect to do so when asked by pollsters"
Last night half a dozen mates and me went to my local for a few beers.. as it was my birthday I was allowed to talk about politics for 5 mins... every one of them said they were going to vote UKIP, but also said they don't like to mention it in case people think bad of them...
FWIW they all said they wouldn't have their wives/girlfriends breastfeed in public either, said it was for exhibitionists.
PBers would probably consider me and my mates as oiks, but we are actually relatively well to do for Hornchurch
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
homophobia....... a simple healthy dislike of unnatural behaviour
Where to start.....
What is 'healthy' about disliking someone for an innate trait?
Is it 'healthy' to dislike people with blue eyes or blonde hair?
Why is it 'unnatural' given people, to quote a song are 'Born this way'?
Murderers and paedophiles are born that way too.
But they do harm to others - what's your point?
By the way, you do know that many homophobes are actually gay, don't you?
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
homophobia....... a simple healthy dislike of unnatural behaviour
Where to start.....
What is 'healthy' about disliking someone for an innate trait?
Is it 'healthy' to dislike people with blue eyes or blonde hair?
Why is it 'unnatural' given people, to quote a song are 'Born this way'?
Murderers and paedophiles are born that way too.
And there are plenty of people who have the capability to murder who do not because they excercise self discipline (and probably not a few with paedophile tendencies who resist the temptation to indulge them - having such temptations must be a ghastly situation to find yourself in)
Racism (or more accurately tribalism or herdism) is an instinctive reaction to outsiders that is innate in the human condition. It is only reason , self control and self discipline that keeps it under control. Liberals fail to understand that we are not rational beings, we are animals with instincts who are capable of rational thought to a lesser or greater degree, but always controlled to a lesser or greater degree by instinct.
You just don't get it, do you. It is precisely because he refers to "Chinks", "Pooftahs" and "Peasants" (the later meaning jumped up working class people who think they are in the elite), and that using such language causes a fit of the vapours among right thinking people that he is attracting far more votes than he loses.
You just don't get it, do you.
Each of those terms is simply offensive name-calling.
It doesn't add anything to political discourse.
As my grandfather used to say: "Never offend someone unnecessarily" (along with "never make an enemy unintentionally", it's one of my favourite lessons)
It wasn't part of political discourse. It was said in a private telephone conversation that some S**t taped and passed onto a national newspaper.
Things said in private conversations have different thresholds to public speeches.
And frankly I can't see much difference between hacking someones voicemail and using the information or publishing it and taping someones phonecall (presumably without their consent) and using it in that way.
Cameron made a private comment to another politician, something about the Queen "purring" about the Scotland result.
A cameraman picked it up with a long-range microphone, not because it was meant to be recorded.
Is that "hacking" his private conversation without consent? Should it have been published?
Might we also have a PB competition on the number of "poofters" in Ukip's branch in South Basildon with a tiebreak question on how many brace of "peasants" Farage bags in the annual Boxing Day cull there?
That sounds like a good game. We can also count the number of duck houses in Gosport, and the number of peerages made available to major donors just to add to the festive jollity, not forgetting the number of people offering to influence legislation for a consideration, another examination of people's expenses might be good fun as well.
Be gentle with him. @JackW's a LibDem...so you can surely understand him feeling a little bitter about UKIP's relative success.
Even people who like to sneer at others deserve representation.
I have a better idea of JackW's identity than most here and I can assure you that he is not a Lib Dem.
It was an assumption given that he gets a fit of the vapours on being accused of Tory-inclinations, but is a proud supporter of the Coalition.
That said, his hero worship of John Thurso makes me suspicious...
One man's "rough around the edges" is another man's racism, homophobia, scape-goating. The search for the person they believe has poisoned their well. Who has robbed them of their deserved entitlement to " something better than this".
UKIP's Utopia is for many their embodiment of Hell on Earth.
What the elite dismiss as racism the 'rough around the edges' bloke sees as realism, you know the people who actually live with diversity every day instead of heading off to live in Burton Bradstock.
As for homophobia I don't know a single Kipper that is in any way, shape or form homophobic, though I am sure there are some as there in all parties. Quick question, how do the Left square the Muslim stance on homosexuality or there abuse of womens rights?
I'm afraid the 'rough around the edges' person has had enough of being told what they should or should not believe by people that have no idea of their everyday life.
Your delusion starts with saying it is "the elite" that call out Kippers for spouting racist, homophobic, downright nasty sentiment. No. It is the majority. The great majority of decent Brits, of whatever heritage. These representatives of your party make our skin crawl.
homophobia....... a simple healthy dislike of unnatural behaviour
Where to start.....
What is 'healthy' about disliking someone for an innate trait?
Is it 'healthy' to dislike people with blue eyes or blonde hair?
Why is it 'unnatural' given people, to quote a song are 'Born this way'?
Murderers and paedophiles are born that way too.
You think nurture (or lack of) plays no part? Interesting.
Edit: actually, scrub that, I can't think of anything less interesting than a round of well worn banalities on nature v. nurture.
You just don't get it, do you. It is precisely because he refers to "Chinks", "Pooftahs" and "Peasants" (the later meaning jumped up working class people who think they are in the elite), and that using such language causes a fit of the vapours among right thinking people that he is attracting far more votes than he loses.
You just don't get it, do you.
Each of those terms is simply offensive name-calling.
It doesn't add anything to political discourse.
As my grandfather used to say: "Never offend someone unnecessarily" (along with "never make an enemy unintentionally", it's one of my favourite lessons)
It wasn't part of political discourse. It was said in a private telephone conversation that some S**t taped and passed onto a national newspaper.
Things said in private conversations have different thresholds to public speeches.
And frankly I can't see much difference between hacking someones voicemail and using the information or publishing it and taping someones phonecall (presumably without their consent) and using it in that way.
Cameron made a private comment to another politician, something about the Queen "purring" about the Scotland result.
A cameraman picked it up with a long-range microphone, not because it was meant to be recorded.
Is that "hacking" his private conversation without consent? Should it have been published?
If you are overheard, then you are overheard. Taping someones phone call, without telling them you are going to do it first (as call centres do) is a crime.
I don't know much about Scotland but I'd have thought the Labour position would improve as soon as they stopped publicly squabbling, which it sounds like they'll do. I also wonder whether the polling isn't over-stating the SNP thanks to people who would normally be non-voters and tuned in for the referendum.
I don't think squabbling is an issue, at least within the MPs and MSPs. MY impression is that what is left of the Labour hierarchy i Scotland has already stopped squabbling. Mr Murphy has now been very firmly given the bell to put on the cat.
The fault line is rather within the wider party membership + union affiliates, in large part because of indyref. Remember we haven't had party membership figures in Scotland for years so we can't track the decline and when it happened. They aren't even saying how many actually voted in the party leadership (last time I looked), never mind how many members there are today.
"Sturgeon........... has got years of bureaucratic, centralising inertia to explain away and it will be a challenge."
I think you will find that much of the electorate do not regard that as the reality. Murphy has very little chance at all of winning more seats for Labour than the SNP in Holyrood 2016.
What he does have is the old claim -vote Labour to stop the Tories in GE 2015.
The battleground is whether or not that is trumped by the SNP claims:
* You tried that last time and it did not work
* What difference does it really make to elect Miliband (who you do not rate) and the Red Tories rather than the Blue Tories?
* There is a good chance that a group of SNP MPs will achieve much more for Scotland than sending a group of mostly anonymous Labour MPs to Westminster yet again.
For a Labour leader to consistently poll behind a Tory PM in Scotland is some feat.
I still can't get my head round that......I check every time YouGov measure it, just to make sure - and its as bad as ever - and its not even close - not 'a bit worse than' - but 'worse than'.
The other interesting perspective in today's YouGov is that while Scots do not see themselves as significantly more left wing than the rest of the UK, they do see Labour and Miliband as less left-wing - in contrast to the other parties/leaders, which they rate very similarly to the rest of the UK.
You just don't get it, do you. It is precisely because he refers to "Chinks", "Pooftahs" and "Peasants" (the later meaning jumped up working class people who think they are in the elite), and that using such language causes a fit of the vapours among right thinking people that he is attracting far more votes than he loses.
You just don't get it, do you.
Each of those terms is simply offensive name-calling.
It doesn't add anything to political discourse.
As my grandfather used to say: "Never offend someone unnecessarily" (along with "never make an enemy unintentionally", it's one of my favourite lessons)
It wasn't part of political discourse. It was said in a private telephone conversation that some S**t taped and passed onto a national newspaper.
Things said in private conversations have different thresholds to public speeches.
And frankly I can't see much difference between hacking someones voicemail and using the information or publishing it and taping someones phonecall (presumably without their consent) and using it in that way.
Cameron made a private comment to another politician, something about the Queen "purring" about the Scotland result.
A cameraman picked it up with a long-range microphone, not because it was meant to be recorded.
Is that "hacking" his private conversation without consent? Should it have been published?
I don't think it should have. And I defended him on here at the time.
I don't see what sending a large group of SNP MPs to Westminster will do for Scotland other than ensure that there is no chance of a significant percentage of our MPs being a part of a government and having the ear of ministers. The 6 SNPs in this Parliament have hardly been high profile or influential.
But, as I have already said this morning, I agree with you that the real battle ground is Holyrood 2016. Can the SNP repeat their 2011 triumph? That is Murphy's challenge and I am not suggesting it is an easy one for him, just that he has started well and positioned himself well for the battle.
I also agree that Ed is Murphy's (and Labour's) biggest problem. For a Labour leader to consistently poll behind a Tory PM in Scotland is some feat.
As I've said before I cannot see the logic of centrist or rightwing Scots voting for an obviously leftwing SNP in Holyrood in 2016, especially one equipped with significant new tax raising powers. Why would you do that?
The only reason might be that you are a passionate rightwing separatist who wants an immediate new referendum, and will suffer a left wing, tax-n-spend Scottish executive to get there, but how many of these voters actually exist? 5% of Scots? 2%?
The SNP will do well in 2015 but, paradoxically, devomax will mean they do less well in 2016, in my opinion. Sturgeon will have to form a coalition.
Historically, the SNP have tried to avoid the left/right wing analysis on the very sound basis that supporters of independence come from both wings. That changed to some degree under Salmond who saw that he could not make real progress in Scotland unless he could undermine Labour. Up until that point most of the SNP seats were ex tory seats where tartan tories had become used to voting for them.
It looks and sounds as if Sturgeon is going to go even further down the same path. Assuming she does, and it makes sense for her to do so, it will be interesting to see how these tartan tories respond. I know several of them who voted No in the referendum but have been voting for the SNP for years. Will they really continue to support an ever more left wing party?
Of course it never does to underestimate the weakness of both the tories and, now, the Lib Dems in Scotland. There may be an opportunity there but the opportunity existing and the capability to take advantage of it are two different things.
You just don't get it, do you. It is precisely because he refers to "Chinks", "Pooftahs" and "Peasants" (the later meaning jumped up working class people who think they are in the elite), and that using such language causes a fit of the vapours among right thinking people that he is attracting far more votes than he loses.
You just don't get it, do you.
Each of those terms is simply offensive name-calling.
It doesn't add anything to political discourse.
As my grandfather used to say: "Never offend someone unnecessarily" (along with "never make an enemy unintentionally", it's one of my favourite lessons)
It wasn't part of political discourse. It was said in a private telephone conversation that some S**t taped and passed onto a national newspaper.
Things said in private conversations have different thresholds to public speeches.
And frankly I can't see much difference between hacking someones voicemail and using the information or publishing it and taping someones phonecall (presumably without their consent) and using it in that way.
Cameron made a private comment to another politician, something about the Queen "purring" about the Scotland result.
A cameraman picked it up with a long-range microphone, not because it was meant to be recorded.
Is that "hacking" his private conversation without consent? Should it have been published?
This is an absurd bit of hair splitting, Cameron was in public. If someone hacked into your email account and sent all your emails to the local paper would that be fair game ? What about if some obtained a copy of your bank statement ? The fact that the police require a warrant to record what you say on the telephone, but dont to record what you say in public even discretely to a colleague should be a bit of a give away.
Might we also have a PB competition on the number of "poofters" in Ukip's branch in South Basildon with a tiebreak question on how many brace of "peasants" Farage bags in the annual Boxing Day cull there?
"A UKIP spokesman said they were "the rantings of an angry man" who was on sedatives for an injury at the time." What would he have said if he hadn't been on sedatives?
Colour me a bit sceptical. Sedatives just lower inhibitions a bit, like alcohol, and in vino veritas!
The spokesman's defence was "the rantings of an angry man". With defenders like that who needs critics!
Imagine this fellow in parliament!
Inclined to agree. In a similar vein an elderly relative of my wife is suffering dementia. She rants in quite horrific ways about gays, blacks and any other minority that comes to mind. Friends excuse her by saying (quite kindly) that it must be the dementia. Unfortunately we have to point out that she has always been like this in her views and all that has changed is that she has lost her inhibitions.
Although I read an article a few years ago suggesting that loss of inhibitions is related to old age generally, not dementia
Comments
http://www.mediafire.com/view/8yid4isbyi9uh3l/YouGov polls 12 months to 14 December 2014.jpg#
Not my graphs - merely an observer of trends.
I guess I've a God Complex :^ )
What experience do you have of living with diversity? And weren't you the poster who claimed he was afraid of walking through Stepney Green / Whitechapel?
Surely one's inhibitions are part of one's personality. If they are taken away by prescription drugs or impairment, surely your personality has been changed, not that you've changed your personality.
Surely through growing up we learn to control are baser selves? Or do you yourself not possess one which emerges when you have a dark night of the soul?
....................................................................
Laters .... I have an appointment with a blue suit and red cape ....
YouGov
12 Dec 2014 Con 32%, Lab 32%, LD 7%, UKIP 16%
12 Dec 2013 Con 35%, Lab 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 11%
12 Dec 2012 Con 31%, Lab 44%, LD 12%, UKIP 9%
ComRes (online)
13 Dec 2014 Con 33%, Lab 32%, LD 7%, UKIP 18%
13 Dec 2013 Con 29%, Lab 36%, LD 8% UKIP 18%
16 Dec 2012 Con 28%, Lab 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 14%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election#2014
Such attacks will demonstrate how little the SNP have done for Scots with their majority in Holyrood while they obsessed with the neverendum and will make it very difficult for Sturgeon to outflank him to the left as she plans. Sturgeon is smart enough to see the risks and sacking incompetents like Russell was a good start but she has got years of bureaucratic, centralising inertia to explain away and it will be a challenge.
http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/testing-boundaries-1-conservatives-vs.html
And can you answer my question about womens rights and homophobia amongst Muslims please.
"Sturgeon........... has got years of bureaucratic, centralising inertia to explain away and it will be a challenge."
I think you will find that much of the electorate do not regard that as the reality. Murphy has very little chance at all of winning more seats for Labour than the SNP in Holyrood 2016.
What he does have is the old claim -vote Labour to stop the Tories in GE 2015.
The battleground is whether or not that is trumped by the SNP claims:
* You tried that last time and it did not work
* What difference does it really make to elect Miliband (who you do not rate) and the Red Tories rather than the Blue Tories?
* There is a good chance that a group of SNP MPs will achieve much more for Scotland than sending a group of mostly anonymous Labour MPs to Westminster yet again.
If you engage nicely with people, the vast majority of people will engage nicely with you. If you fear them, you should expect some to feel the same way towards you.
As an aside, when I lived in Stepney 20 years ago, I was chucking in university to start work. I'd frequently walk places, and once I was stopped by these young kids who asked me if I was a policeman. When I asked why they thought I was one, they said it was because I was wearing a white shirt. Evidently they saw very few people in white shirts on their estate, and the ones who did wear them were policemen ...
Still not as funny as the kids who asked me the same question on the outskirts of March, near the end of a 20-mile hike. I was quite unsure how they mistook this sweaty, bearded loon carrying a heavy pack for a policeman!
http://www.mediafire.com/view/lufedieio062ooo/YouGov Polls since 2010 GE as of 14 December 2014.jpg#
Apologies for the lack of Green data.
I remain sceptical whether Jim will ever actually seek a seat in Holyrood, as there does not seem to be any easy path into Holyrood. However bad things get for SLAB in May 2015, they will likely do even worse in Holyrood 2016. This is due to the vagaries of the D’Hondt method, which Labour introduced to Scotland to ensure that the SNP would never get a majority. Based on current polling the SNP would win virtually all of the constituency seats. Therefore, unless the SNP are expected to get around 55-60% of the regional vote in a region, in which case D’Hondt would work in their favour, most of the SNP regional votes are going to be wasted. Therefore, I would expect SNP tactical voting on a grand scale and anticipate the Green’s being the major beneficiary of these votes. The Greens could end up snapping at SLAB’s heels for second place – I wonder what the odds on this outcome would be !!
RT @CameronYardeJnr: Was Christmas TV better in the old days? Christmas Day on BBC1 in 1988. You decide. pic.twitter.com/GL4haWwOxB
I first met Kerry Smith a long time ago, when he was a Conservative activist and candidate in Barking and Dagenham. I thought he was unsuitable to be a candidate then, and it doesn't seem he has improved. Hopefully, John Baron will cross the floor.
From WIKI
In September 2014, in an interview published in the Guardian, Mantel confessed to fantasizing about the murdering of Margaret Thatcher in 1983, and fictionalized the event in a short story called 'The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher: 6 August 1983'. In the interview she expands on her hatred for the former British prime minister.
The word that is missing is her IRRATIONAL hatred
Also most people will have taken one look at that lot and turned the TV off, maybe put on some music and talked with their family, played board games, possibly started a game of Charades. Of course these days everyone take one look at 400 channels of cr@p, turns the TV off, and sits around the place staring at their tablets and phones and ignoring each other. Not sure its a step forward tbh,
But, as I have already said this morning, I agree with you that the real battle ground is Holyrood 2016. Can the SNP repeat their 2011 triumph? That is Murphy's challenge and I am not suggesting it is an easy one for him, just that he has started well and positioned himself well for the battle.
I also agree that Ed is Murphy's (and Labour's) biggest problem. For a Labour leader to consistently poll behind a Tory PM in Scotland is some feat.
From WIKI
In September 2014, in an interview published in the Guardian, Mantel confessed to fantasizing about the murdering of Margaret Thatcher in 1983, and fictionalized the event in a short story called 'The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher: 6 August 1983'. In the interview she expands on her hatred for the former British prime minister.
The word that is missing is her IRRATIONAL hatred
Indeed, she should stay away from contemporary writing, her books "Wolf Hall" and "Bring Up The Bodies" about the life of Thomas Cromwell, the Secretary to the Council of Henry VIII were excellent.
Instead of shooting "pheasants" you shoot "peasants".
Oh! How they laughed.
Jackasses.
Just last week in THURROCK of all places, a Conservative leaflet was distributed referencing UKIP candidate Tim Aker by his full name of Timur to highlight his Turkish heritage. This was placed next to pictures of Islamic terrorists and and references to the Conservative candidate being a local where as "Timur" wasn't.
That day the Tory MP for Thurrock, Jackie Doyle-Price was tweeting from a Jim Davidson gig, saying "I salute you"
I mentioned it tirelessly on here, saying if it were UKIP that had done this, the site would be in meltdown from faux outrage. The only non Kipper criticism came from AntiFrank. TGOHF said "Tim Aker should man up"
As if by magic, to prove my point, today we have some unpleasant utterances from a UKIP candidate in the other Thurrock seat.. and JackW, TGOHF, Marquee Mark et al are tripping over themselves to be outraged. It is pathetic, playground behaviour.
They pick and choose when to be offended depending on who said it, not what was said.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/11/ap-nixes-homophobia-ethnic-cleansing-150315.html
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/homophobia-no-longer-exists/comment-page-1/
The government's strategy of non-action stretches to the top. Yet there was a time when David Cameron had plenty to say about individual cases and plenty of demands that governments intervene. That time was when he was Leader of the Opposition:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7724210.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8473888.stm
' The Tory leader said he would not flinch from raising the case as he believed it was symptomatic of levels of social breakdown in Britain.
"I think when things like this happen it is right to stand back, reflect and ask ourselves some deep questions about what is going wrong in our society," he told an audience at a community centre in Gillingham.
Mr Cameron denied that his frequent references to a "broken Britain" was an over-statement and "terrible crimes" such as those which had happened in Doncaster could not be ignored.
"I don't think it is right every time one of these events takes place to say that it is just some isolated incident of evil that we should look away from and forget about."
"Are we going to do that every time there is a Jamie Bulger or a Baby Peter or a Ben Kinsella or a Gary Newlove or what has happened in Doncaster? We shouldn't. We should ask about what has gone wrong with our society and what we are going to do about it."
And he hit back at critics who have accused him of exploiting the Doncaster case for political ends, saying: "I think it is right to raise it in a responsible way and it is right to have this debate about how we can strengthen our society." '
Now compare Cameron's response to Rotherham - said nothing, done nothing.
Even though Rotherham MP Sarah Champion has said she has spoken to Cameron (and Theresa May) multiple times stressing that it is a national problem.
There is a famous quote attributed to Edmund Burke which is much liked by Conservatives.
So why has this government allowed evil to triumph in Rotherham by doing nothing ?
I got on the wrong Tube and alighted at Whitechapel to be met with menacing groups of Muslim men who clearly thought I was White Trash.
I don't scare easy - at all, but I was unnerved. I was at college in Camberwell which is a step down from Peckham. And hail from the rough end of Newcastle.
Diversity isn't some catch all excuse to negate others genuine fears and concerns.
I couldn't give a toss how good they are, I wouldn't read anything of hers on principle.
Last night half a dozen mates and me went to my local for a few beers.. as it was my birthday I was allowed to talk about politics for 5 mins... every one of them said they were going to vote UKIP, but also said they don't like to mention it in case people think bad of them...
FWIW they all said they wouldn't have their wives/girlfriends breastfeed in public either, said it was for exhibitionists.
PBers would probably consider me and my mates as oiks, but we are actually relatively well to do for Hornchurch
On the same logic you wouldn't read Le Morte D'Arthur because Thomas Malory was a convicted rapist. Bad people can produce great work.
Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies are great works.
Your inner bully/comformist is ditched and you run wild and have fun instead.
I had a very good friend who became someone totally different when high on cannabis - dark, angry, vengeful, a Scarfe cartoonist. When I thought about his life when sober - I could see it all hidden and wondered how I never noticed what laid beneath his shy, self conscious, nerdy persona.
The other interesting perspective in today's YouGov is that while Scots do not see themselves as significantly more left wing than the rest of the UK, they do see Labour and Miliband as less left-wing - in contrast to the other parties/leaders, which they rate very similarly to the rest of the UK.
do other parties regularly sweep their Augean stables or just decide not rocking the boat is easier ?
UKIP look set to elect a number of their candidates in May 2015. I don't see why you have such a hard time accepting this. Their best case scenario probably tops out ~40. Ladbrokes have set their over/under UKIP seat market around 7.5
I recently decided against buying a book based on its use of CE and BCE. If a historian is a revisionist about the bloody calendar that both irritates me in itself and makes me wonder whether he'll be wearing politically correct goggles for the rest of his work.
Maybe they just don't have enough candidates?
17.55%
Only kidding, BTW Happy belated Birthday!
I hope it doesn't put you off Whitechapel too much - it's well worth a stroll through, even if it is just to the Whitechapel Gallery:
http://www.whitechapelgallery.org/
I love that area, even if I don't get to go back there very much. It will be interesting to see if and how it changes when Crossrail arrives in a few years - I guess the yuppisation creeping up from the City will accelerate, and the area will lose something.
Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies are great works.
they may well be , but I would give such a nasty person a cent of my hard earned cash
Of late, the programme's sometimes seemed like a dinner party where the left and right of mainstream parties repeatedly agree that UKIP is ghastly.
What is 'healthy' about disliking someone for an innate trait?
Is it 'healthy' to dislike people with blue eyes or blonde hair?
Why is it 'unnatural' given people, to quote a song are 'Born this way'?
It's no different from Nips or Honkies or Gerries. I can't get even the tiniest bit worked up about this issue.
We all use shorthand - affectionately or otherwise. I think a black person calling another black person a coconut is infinitely more offensive.
@Sunil_Prasannan
Good morning all; not another morning about the evils of Ukipism, is it?
BTW belated birthday wishes to isam. Have one on me, and if we meet at the next PB do I'll pay up.
I think I had the pleasure of meeting you at the PB bash early last year (last month's was the first one I'd been to in 18 months or so).
You're clearly too much of a gent and well brought up to be one.
I think you're one of the most gracious posters on here. So there.
I would imagine that you could argue a "public interest" defence in this situation, though, as he is putting himself forward as a candidate for election
Yes its another morning of UKIP bashing from the hypocrites that don't criticise Tory ethnic baiting...
If UKIP are JackW's stroppy teenager, it seems the Tories are the middle aged parent "Do as I say not as I do"
I am not aware of blond hair and blue eyes leading to negative behaviour, positive indeed, despite what the Karate Kid would lead one to believe.
Each of those terms is simply offensive name-calling.
It doesn't add anything to political discourse.
As my grandfather used to say: "Never offend someone unnecessarily" (along with "never make an enemy unintentionally", it's one of my favourite lessons)
Things said in private conversations have different thresholds to public speeches.
And frankly I can't see much difference between hacking someones voicemail and using the information or publishing it and taping someones phonecall (presumably without their consent) and using it in that way.
He doesn't like gay marriage [or public gayness as it makes him uncomfortable], he's a White Van Man, very traditional WWC. He'd never approve of public breastfeeding as it's uncivilised in his view. Death penalty to paedos sort. And a huge England supporter. He's a walking UKIP voter - complete with tattoos.
He's mid 30s and a self employed builder. And smart.
By the way, you do know that many homophobes are actually gay, don't you?
You should tell your "friend" that......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126957/Homophobes-attracted-sex-study-finds.html
Racism (or more accurately tribalism or herdism) is an instinctive reaction to outsiders that is innate in the human condition. It is only reason , self control and self discipline that keeps it under control. Liberals fail to understand that we are not rational beings, we are animals with instincts who are capable of rational thought to a lesser or greater degree, but always controlled to a lesser or greater degree by instinct.
Cameron made a private comment to another politician, something about the Queen "purring" about the Scotland result.
A cameraman picked it up with a long-range microphone, not because it was meant to be recorded.
Is that "hacking" his private conversation without consent? Should it have been published?
That said, his hero worship of John Thurso makes me suspicious...
Edit: actually, scrub that, I can't think of anything less interesting than a round of well worn banalities on nature v. nurture.
I don't think squabbling is an issue, at least within the MPs and MSPs. MY impression is that what is left of the Labour hierarchy i Scotland has already stopped squabbling. Mr Murphy has now been very firmly given the bell to put on the cat.
The fault line is rather within the wider party membership + union affiliates, in large part because of indyref. Remember we haven't had party membership figures in Scotland for years so we can't track the decline and when it happened. They aren't even saying how many actually voted in the party leadership (last time I looked), never mind how many members there are today.
It looks and sounds as if Sturgeon is going to go even further down the same path. Assuming she does, and it makes sense for her to do so, it will be interesting to see how these tartan tories respond. I know several of them who voted No in the referendum but have been voting for the SNP for years. Will they really continue to support an ever more left wing party?
Of course it never does to underestimate the weakness of both the tories and, now, the Lib Dems in Scotland. There may be an opportunity there but the opportunity existing and the capability to take advantage of it are two different things.
Their argument is that licences cost £50 to obtain but cost the police £200 to process
http://www.labour-southeast.org.uk/gun_licence_subsidy_leaves_se_police_forces_over_3m_out_of_pocket