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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The genius of George Osborne: His government’s failure on t

SystemSystem Posts: 11,705
edited December 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The genius of George Osborne: His government’s failure on the deficit is being ignored

Given that the key objective of the coalition government since May 2010 has been to deal with the deficit then you would have thought that the failure to meet targets on this key matter would have been the dominant part of the media’s coverage of yesterday’s autumn statement.

Read the full story here


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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    But meeting that promise is not something that really affects the public. What they care about is how their own pocket books are doing and their sense of their future prospects. So long as the financial markets are convinced that British public finances are in good enough shape, then hitting deficit targets is neither here nor there.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    The country's most popular heir-to-a-baronetcy strikes again! ;)
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    MTimT said:

    But meeting that promise is not something that really affects the public. What they care about is how their own pocket books are doing and their sense of their future prospects. So long as the financial markets are convinced that British public finances are in good enough shape, then hitting deficit targets is neither here nor there.

    Basically.

    Seems apt to repost this:

    Do Voters Even Care About The Deficit? http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/autumn-statement-deficit_b_6261134.html

    Will the Westminster bubble ever get the message?
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MTimT said:

    So long as the financial markets are convinced that British public finances are in good enough shape, then hitting deficit targets is neither here nor there.

    Very much this.

    The markets see a choice between Balls, who made the mess in the first place, and who would be given no benefit of the doubt at all when it comes to slipping the end dates for reducing the deficit, never mind that his publicly stated policy is to borrow more to fund capital expenditure. On the other side they see Osborne, who didn't make the mess, and so far has all the key economic indicators heading in the right direction, even if not as fast as he first hoped.

    I would be very surprised if the markets actually give a damn about him hitting the suggested deadlines, if it takes a few years longer, they get more interest, what they are going to be much more concerned about is that their investment is safe, and the government is always going to be in a position to make its interest payments in a timely matter... in other words to feel comfortable that the UK isn't going to be the next Italy or Greece.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Ooo baby, four hours of daily politics to watch.

    I seriously need a life ;)
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    If only his "genius" extended to actually getting the economy right.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    If only his "genius" extended to actually getting the economy right.

    You are very grumpy in the morning.

    I've been spending the last few days examining lots of sexy vaccines for diseases I didn't know existed... always cheers me up :)
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    edited December 2014
    Charles said:

    If only his "genius" extended to actually getting the economy right.

    You are very grumpy in the morning.

    I've been spending the last few days examining lots of sexy vaccines for diseases I didn't know existed... always cheers me up :)
    That's not grumpy Charles, I can do proper grumpy always best when Mr Llama's on the board we can do our Statler and Waldorf routine ;-)

    Anyways nice to see you banker chappies getting up early, I'm off out soon to move a factory electrician arrives at 7.30.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    If only his "genius" extended to actually getting the economy right.

    You are very grumpy in the morning.

    I've been spending the last few days examining lots of sexy vaccines for diseases I didn't know existed... always cheers me up :)
    That's not grumpy Charles, I can do proper grumpy always best when Mr Llama's on the board we can do our Statler and Waldorf routine ;-)

    Anyways nice to see you banker chappies getting up early, I'm off out soon to move a factory electrician arrives at 7.30.
    Enjoy!

    I have a breakfast at 7, followed by another day of lectures with titles such as "regulatory requirements for conventional and next generation vaccines" I shall try not to sleep through it...
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    It's good to see a positive thread about the Conservatives, and it's well placed. There is no getting away from this being a brilliant autumn statement. People who are not known Cons supporters are either begrudgingly or happily acknowledging it.

    By no means did I agree with everything Maggie introduced, but the privatisation of council homes was a stroke of genius. British like to own their homes. Osborne's revision on stamp duty is a smart move. A very very smart move.

    With a Budget still to come in March I maintain my view 80%+ that the Conservatives will win the GE outright. They have too many cards to play.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Don't tell Ken Clarke.

    To be fair I think Ball's academic economic credentials are probably substantially better then Ozzy (Osborne wasn't Kennedy Economics Scholar at Harvard, Balls was), but his economic good sense is blinded by his politics.
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    By the way, there's nothing fiscally wrong with having a debt. It's whether you can manage and service it that matters. I know that's shocking but it's true.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Would be a great argument.

    Except that Ozzy didn't go to Eton.

    And Nottingham High School is really rather good.

    Apart from that: brilliant!
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Indigo said:

    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Don't tell Ken Clarke.

    To be fair I think Ball's academic economic credentials are probably substantially better then Ozzy (Osborne wasn't Kennedy Economics Scholar at Harvard, Balls was), but his economic good sense is blinded by his politics.
    I think Balls abilities are massively over-rated but he benefits in one respect by sitting next to Ed who really is somewhat limited.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    By the way, there's nothing fiscally wrong with having a debt. It's whether you can manage and service it that matters. I know that's shocking but it's true.

    It's more of an issue where debt as a % of GDP is increasing and there appears to be no plan to reduce it. So in general, a deficit of, say 1% over the cycle is not a particular issue

    That said, given where we are, we probably need a period of fiscal consolidation (debt repayment) to reduce the levels of debt as a % of GDP as they are high enough to reduce our flexibility. I'd like to see debt of 30-40% of GDP as a reasonable long-term target.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Charles said:

    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Would be a great argument.

    Except that Ozzy didn't go to Eton.

    And Nottingham High School is really rather good.

    Apart from that: brilliant!
    Oops! Just seems that Ozzy went to Eton - when you listen to Ed he gives the impression that you have to go to Eton to be a Tory:)
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    You Gov Subsamples - Labour

    London: 31
    South: 25
    Mid/Wales: 30
    North: 43
    Scotland: 21
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    It's more Labour's strategic awfulness. "Too far, too fast" was always a terrible message for a party with an image of spending like a drunken sailor to be putting out. Now they aren't listened to when they rightly point out that the deficit isn't coming down.

    Worse, the Conservatives can continue to use the deficit as a stick to beat Labour with.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Sky leading on the Guardian meme of cuts that take us back to the 1930s - not at all sure that will be seen as a bad thing by middle England.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Having regard to the Autumn statement I've come round to considered view that :

    Ed Gromit From The Red Planet Will Never Be Prime Minister
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    JackW said:

    Having regard to the Autumn statement I've come round to considered view that :

    Ed Gromit From The Red Planet Will Never Be Prime Minister

    As I guy interested in space, I did enjoy the red planet joke ;)
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    The Sun front page is hilarious, will Ed be tearing it up.?
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    I was in my car at the time, I didn't realise the Lab benches had to suck it up after being told off by the ghastly Bercow.. What larks eh"!!
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited December 2014

    If only his "genius" extended to actually getting the economy right.

    Just give it a rest why don't you? You lot had your chance and you drove the economy into the fiscal brick wall. Yes the guys that still remain sitting on the opposition front bench YES those guys did it

    They have no hope in May
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Having regard to the Autumn statement I've come round to considered view that :

    Ed Gromit From The Red Planet Will Never Be Prime Minister

    As I guy interested in space, I did enjoy the red planet joke ;)
    Is there life on Mars ? ....

    Was Gordon Brown the man who sold the world gold reserves to the Martians for a pittance ?

  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Moses_ said:

    If only his "genius" extended to actually getting the economy right.

    Just give it a rest why don't you? You lot had your chance and you drove the economy into the fiscal brick wall. Yes the guys that still remain sitting on the opposition front bench YES those guys did it

    They have no hope in May
    I don't think he supports any party - just a serial loaner, probably should go UKIP:)
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Having regard to the Autumn statement I've come round to considered view that :

    Ed Gromit From The Red Planet Will Never Be Prime Minister

    As I guy interested in space, I did enjoy the red planet joke ;)
    Is there life on Mars ? ....

    Was Gordon Brown the man who sold the world gold reserves to the Martians for a pittance ?

    He exchanged the gold for a single triganic pu.. a bargain!
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    felix said:

    Moses_ said:

    If only his "genius" extended to actually getting the economy right.

    Just give it a rest why don't you? You lot had your chance and you drove the economy into the fiscal brick wall. Yes the guys that still remain sitting on the opposition front bench YES those guys did it

    They have no hope in May
    I don't think he supports any party - just a serial loaner, probably should go UKIP:)
    He will be claiming next that there is a triple dip recession in the Welsh NHS .. Or some such similar crock of crap?
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    So we see now there is very clear water between the desired Tory end-state of a significantly smaller state and budget surplus in 5 or 6 years' time vs Labour who have no clear end-state at all but one assumes they will not want to shrink the state or achieve a surplus.

    Personally I have no doubt Ozzy will fail to meet the surplus timeframe. Another recession / market meltdown / Eurosplat will have happened in the meantime. But I don't care. The direction of travel and willingness to accommodate 'events' without losing sight of that end point is crystal clear. And right. It can be no other way in a globalising competitive world where 'there is no money' and we have an unaffordable state.

    Labour are a party without a plan or a vision that reflects the reality of the world we live in.
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Having regard to the Autumn statement I've come round to considered view that :

    Ed Gromit From The Red Planet Will Never Be Prime Minister

    As I guy interested in space, I did enjoy the red planet joke ;)
    Is there life on Mars ? ....

    Was Gordon Brown the man who sold the world gold reserves to the Martians for a pittance ?

    And bleeped it before he did it?
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Having regard to the Autumn statement I've come round to considered view that :

    Ed Gromit From The Red Planet Will Never Be Prime Minister

    As I guy interested in space, I did enjoy the red planet joke ;)
    Is there life on Mars ? ....

    Was Gordon Brown the man who sold the world gold reserves to the Martians for a pittance ?

    He exchanged the gold for a single triganic pu.. a bargain!

    Well at least the ningis exchange rate has to be better now ?
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    MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Just keep under-estimating Osborne for the next 6 months...
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Patrick said:

    Labour are a party without a plan or a vision that reflects the reality of the world we live in.

    As was mentioned last week, they have to decide what they are for first. Its not enough to be "not the Tories", most people couldn't give a damn about the detail of policies or manifestos, but they do want to know what their vision of the UK is. So, what is the future role of a party whose raison d'etre is essentially raising lots of money and giving it to deserving causes (for some value of "deserving"), when there isn't any more money to spray around.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Having regard to the Autumn statement I've come round to considered view that :

    Ed Gromit From The Red Planet Will Never Be Prime Minister

    As I guy interested in space, I did enjoy the red planet joke ;)
    Is there life on Mars ? ....

    Was Gordon Brown the man who sold the world gold reserves to the Martians for a pittance ?

    He exchanged the gold for a single triganic pu.. a bargain!
    That's all hunky dory but I thought Gordon Brown exchanged the gold with a certain Mr Z Stardust for all the spiders from Mars ?!?

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Moses_ said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Having regard to the Autumn statement I've come round to considered view that :

    Ed Gromit From The Red Planet Will Never Be Prime Minister

    As I guy interested in space, I did enjoy the red planet joke ;)
    Is there life on Mars ? ....

    Was Gordon Brown the man who sold the world gold reserves to the Martians for a pittance ?

    He exchanged the gold for a single triganic pu.. a bargain!

    Well at least the ningis exchange rate has to be better now ?
    At least the coins are so unwieldy it could never get so bad as to force a run on it ;)
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Having regard to the Autumn statement I've come round to considered view that :

    Ed Gromit From The Red Planet Will Never Be Prime Minister

    As I guy interested in space, I did enjoy the red planet joke ;)
    Is there life on Mars ? ....

    Was Gordon Brown the man who sold the world gold reserves to the Martians for a pittance ?

    He exchanged the gold for a single triganic pu.. a bargain!
    That's all hunky dory but I thought Gordon Brown exchanged the gold with a certain Mr Z Stardust for all the spiders from Mars ?!?

    A mere cover story to hide his aspiration to control in the intergalactic currency markets ;)
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Its was always a good guide on the site, the more Tim smeared someone , The better they were......
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    Morning all.

    The BBC and Guardian both lead with "Public spending is set to fall to levels not seen since the 1930s" as though it is a bad thing. - personally I've no problems with that.


    The Sun really need to improve their photoshop skills....
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Indigo said:

    So, what is the future role of a party whose raison d'etre is essentially raising lots of money and giving it to deserving causes (for some value of "deserving"), when there isn't any more money to spray around.

    As Mr Laffer said on Newsnight last night, if you have a system that takes money from people who work and gives it to people who don't work, you end up with lots of people not working.

    That may be ok in times of 'plenty', but when the people earning the money are feeling a squeeze, it's not an attractive proposition.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Balls lived at Eton.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    "Will the same hold this time just five months before election day? Will the failure to meet targets on deficit reduction simply be sidelined. Judging by the front pages then that looks likely."
    Mike Smithson in dreamland again, Trying with all his might to blot out UKIP and anointing Osborne. It won't work. Even the BBC see's through your nonsense. The 30 pieces of silver bribe to the electorate is looking more tarnished by the minute.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1385280/more-austerity-to-follow-predictable-statement
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30323690
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome: .@edballsmp on stamp duty reform: “We would have done it but we didn't because we had other things to do.” #r4today

    Like trashing banking regulation
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCr4today: Ed Balls: We've had a wage and living standards crisis, not an unemployment one #r4today

    Unfortunate for Ed that he, and numpties like Blanchflower, predicted an unemployment crisis...
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    RobD said:

    Moses_ said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Having regard to the Autumn statement I've come round to considered view that :

    Ed Gromit From The Red Planet Will Never Be Prime Minister

    As I guy interested in space, I did enjoy the red planet joke ;)
    Is there life on Mars ? ....

    Was Gordon Brown the man who sold the world gold reserves to the Martians for a pittance ?

    He exchanged the gold for a single triganic pu.. a bargain!

    Well at least the ningis exchange rate has to be better now ?
    At least the coins are so unwieldy it could never get so bad as to force a run on it ;)

    Would reply but busy looking in Back of the proverbial drawer just in case I have some Ningis notes left over from the last holiday. Do Paddy power take Ningis?
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MikeK said:

    "Will the same hold this time just five months before election day? Will the failure to meet targets on deficit reduction simply be sidelined. Judging by the front pages then that looks likely."
    Mike Smithson in dreamland again, Trying with all his might to blot out UKIP and anointing Osborne. It won't work. Even the BBC see's through your nonsense. The 30 pieces of silver bribe to the electorate is looking more tarnished by the minute.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1385280/more-austerity-to-follow-predictable-statement
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30323690

    Go on enlighten us then, what is UKIPs policy for improving the economy with no money to spend. If they are not going to make the cuts the Osborne has announced (and Labour are, even though they try and deny it) where are they going to raise the money from?
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCr4today: Ed Balls: We've had a wage and living standards crisis, not an unemployment one #r4today

    Unfortunate for Ed that he, and numpties like Blanchflower, predicted an unemployment crisis...

    The way this is going by thetime these Labour muppets get to the GE they will be claiming there is a lack of basket crisis at the entrance to LidLs
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited December 2014
    antifrank said:

    Worse, the Conservatives can continue to use the deficit as a stick to beat Labour with.

    I don't think that's true.

    The Conservatives have clearly failed to address the budget deficit. Any mention of it will just remind voters that the current government have wasted five years, and added debt to deficit.

    In a recent joint appearance on Mr Marr's programme Messrs Balls and Osborne apparently both ducked questions on the deficit.

    "...the presenter was visibly exasperated as the Chancellor and his Labour would-be replacement failed utterly to address his principal question, asked over and over again: what will they do to eliminate this country’s budget deficit — the annual gap between what the state spends and what it receives through taxes — currently running at £100billion?"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2855470/DOMINIC-LAWSON-wish-Osborne-Balls-stop-trying-bribe-money.html
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited December 2014

    antifrank said:

    Worse, the Conservatives can continue to use the deficit as a stick to beat Labour with.

    I don't think that's true.

    The Conservatives have clearly failed to address the budget deficit. Any mention of it will just remind voters that the current government have wasted five years, and added debt to deficit.

    In a recent joint appearance on Mr Marr's programme Messrs Balls and Osborne apparently both ducked questions on the deficit.

    "...the presenter was visibly exasperated as the Chancellor and his Labour would-be replacement failed utterly to address his principal question, asked over and over again: what will they do to eliminate this country’s budget deficit — the annual gap between what the state spends and what it receives through taxes — currently running at £100billion?"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2855470/DOMINIC-LAWSON-wish-Osborne-Balls-stop-trying-bribe-money.html
    "The Conservatives have clearly failed to address the budget deficit"

    Missed a bit there let me add it for you....,

    "The Conservatives have clearly failed to address the budget deficit created by Labour despite warnings to the labour government since 2003 "

    Yup that's more accurate
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    antifrank said:

    Worse, the Conservatives can continue to use the deficit as a stick to beat Labour with.

    I don't think that's true.

    The Conservatives have clearly failed to address the budget deficit. Any mention of it will just remind voters that the current government have wasted five years, and added debt to deficit.

    In a recent joint appearance on Mr Marr's programme Messrs Balls and Osborne apparently both ducked questions on the deficit.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2855470/DOMINIC-LAWSON-wish-Osborne-Balls-stop-trying-bribe-money.html
    The flaw in this thinking is that the public largely dont care about the deficit, its a fantasy number with lots of digits which has no meaning in their everyday lives. The public care about the money in their pocket, the value of their assets, and the stability of their jobs. In respect of those items most of the public (i.e. those not incredibly well off ) will feel quite good about things after that budget.

    I dont think they are even that fussed about cuts, they heard a lot of noise from example from Police about how cutting budgets would be the end of the world, and yet a 30% cut in the police budget has been absorbed, and crime is down. The public knows that most public services are hugely inefficient and feather-bedded, and are unlikely to get that exercised about other large numbers getting smaller if it doesn't appear to affect them and theirs.
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    Scott_P said:

    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Balls lived at Eton.
    And contact to popular opinion OSBORNE DID NOT GO TO ETON. He was at St Paul's Hammersmith.
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited December 2014

    Scott_P said:

    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Balls lived at Eton.
    And contact to popular opinion OSBORNE DID NOT GO TO ETON. He was at St Paul's Hammersmith.
    But... but....That's where Harriet Dromey went ? Non? Or some public Skool with a very similar name?
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Indigo said:

    MikeK said:

    "Will the same hold this time just five months before election day? Will the failure to meet targets on deficit reduction simply be sidelined. Judging by the front pages then that looks likely."
    Mike Smithson in dreamland again, Trying with all his might to blot out UKIP and anointing Osborne. It won't work. Even the BBC see's through your nonsense. The 30 pieces of silver bribe to the electorate is looking more tarnished by the minute.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1385280/more-austerity-to-follow-predictable-statement
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30323690

    Go on enlighten us then, what is UKIPs policy for improving the economy with no money to spend. If they are not going to make the cuts the Osborne has announced (and Labour are, even though they try and deny it) where are they going to raise the money from?
    Leaving the EU will add £26 billion each year net to the coffers immediately. Look up UKIPs details on the internet for more savings.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    The emerging back to the 1930s meme is potentially damaging.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Indigo said:

    MikeK said:

    "Will the same hold this time just five months before election day? Will the failure to meet targets on deficit reduction simply be sidelined. Judging by the front pages then that looks likely."
    Mike Smithson in dreamland again, Trying with all his might to blot out UKIP and anointing Osborne. It won't work. Even the BBC see's through your nonsense. The 30 pieces of silver bribe to the electorate is looking more tarnished by the minute.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1385280/more-austerity-to-follow-predictable-statement
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30323690

    Go on enlighten us then, what is UKIPs policy for improving the economy with no money to spend. If they are not going to make the cuts the Osborne has announced (and Labour are, even though they try and deny it) where are they going to raise the money from?
    Indeed UKIP have pledged to re-introduce the spare room subsidy and defend the NHS from cuts while increasing defence spending.

    The magic money tree has purple foliage!
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Jonathan said:

    The emerging back to the 1930s meme is potentially damaging.

    I guess Your rice Crispies must have had a bad taste this morning with the sour milk?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scottish Govt says 20% of house purchases will be worse off after April under their SD scheme.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    MikeK said:
    But will buckle at the first whiff of cordite - e.g. the spare room subsidy.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MikeK said:

    Indigo said:

    MikeK said:

    "Will the same hold this time just five months before election day? Will the failure to meet targets on deficit reduction simply be sidelined. Judging by the front pages then that looks likely."
    Mike Smithson in dreamland again, Trying with all his might to blot out UKIP and anointing Osborne. It won't work. Even the BBC see's through your nonsense. The 30 pieces of silver bribe to the electorate is looking more tarnished by the minute.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1385280/more-austerity-to-follow-predictable-statement
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30323690

    Go on enlighten us then, what is UKIPs policy for improving the economy with no money to spend. If they are not going to make the cuts the Osborne has announced (and Labour are, even though they try and deny it) where are they going to raise the money from?
    Leaving the EU will add £26 billion each year net to the coffers immediately. Look up UKIPs details on the internet for more savings.
    How much ?

    – UKIP will leave the EU and save at least £8bn pa in net contributions.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Jonathan said:

    The emerging back to the 1930s meme is potentially damaging.

    While 1932 had grim figures, from 1933 onwards Britain had growth of 4% a year, even before re-armament, and largely based on the new industries, as well as housebuilding:

    http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2013/apr/19/1930s-house-building-economic-recovery

    But do bear in mind that Chamberlain was a poor PM but a great CoE; so stick to what you know George!
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Jonathan said:

    The emerging back to the 1930s meme is potentially damaging.

    1930's.. Yes "The Wilderness Years, (1929-1939) Labour have a lot of wilderness years coming their way
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome: Scots could be charged double the English rate for buying homes as a result of changes to stamp duty. http://t.co/okP8I6lRKH
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: Scots could be charged double the English rate for buying homes as a result of changes to stamp duty. http://t.co/okP8I6lRKH

    That's fair enough, they need to pay for the socialist nirvana they want some how.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome: George Osborne hits out at the BBC's "totally hyperbolic coverage of spending cuts". "Has the world fallen in? It hasn't." #r4today
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    Good morning, everyone.

    Shocked and astounded that the Mirror isn't positive about George Osborne.
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Ed balls just said on BBC news that he is not coming along with incised policies and fantasy policies but he will and I quote put up the tax to "50p for those that earn over 150,000 pounds

    Ed wishes by the way George had balanced the budget in this Parliament and he is disappointed that that was not done.



    From that point on it was really shit
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,142
    edited December 2014
    Not many people are interested in the deficit because not many people believe in living within their means.

    What people believe in is the magic money tree and yesterday it got another hard shaking.

    It was a very Gordon Brown like performance - lots of talk about 'grwth', which is assumed will continue for ever (because recessions never happen do they), moves to get house prices rising and lots of fiddley changes.

    Now some of these changes are doubtless worthwhile but others will have negative effects and others pointless beyond their obvious vote buying purpose (the child APT being an example here).

    The underlying similarities between Brown's and Osborne's economic strategies explains why Osborne was so ineffective during the recession and also why Balls is so ineffective now.

    Take a look at what the OBN said about Osborne's 2010 Budget:

    http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/wordpress/docs/junebudget_annexc.pdf

    Assumptions of pay rises of over 5% in 2014, 2015 and 2016 and the balance of payments deficit at near zero.

    Now take a look at what the OBN are predicting now:

    http://cdn.budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/December_2014_EFO-web513.pdf

    Big pay rises, a huge improvement in the balance of payments deficit from its now record level and, on page 76, an immediate and massive household borrowing surge of around £100bn per year.

    It seems that the OBN can only pretend that the government borrowing will fall if household borrowing replaces it.

    Well maybe it will and maybe it wont.

    But borrowing £100bn plus each and every year is the action of a country living beyond its means and it makes no effective difference if that borrowing is by households or by the government.
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    O/T

    Betfair's half year PBT to 31.10.14 has increased by 112% from £31.7m to £67.3M compared with the corresponding period last year.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MikeK said:
    Cool. A party that tells the truth.

    So, when you win 80 seats in 2015 and become a key part of the next Coalition government, how will you reduce spending by £100 billion?

    (Specifics please. And "Europe" is unrealistic - the net cost is probably about £10bn, but a it's likely that much of that spending would be replaced by UK equivalent programmes)
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited December 2014
    Mirror doing a poll of voting intentions here

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alan-titchmarsh-ukip-saying-what-4744382

    Current totals

    Lab 20%
    LDem 1%
    Other 6%
    UKIP 67%
    Con 5%
    Not Vote 5%

    Nice to see Mirror readers voting Labour (in a fit of mischief I encouraged the least favoured by Mirror Editorial option)
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    YouGov: Today's 2010 VIs show a new high of 17% of LDs going to Green. (LD retention at 23%). Now the gloves are off with Clegg and Cable showing dissent, will the LDs improve their polling and are both these gents worried about re-election next year.?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Moses_ said:

    Scott_P said:

    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Balls lived at Eton.
    And contact to popular opinion OSBORNE DID NOT GO TO ETON. He was at St Paul's Hammersmith.
    But... but....That's where Harriet Dromey went ? Non? Or some public Skool with a very similar name?
    Osborne went to St. Paul's Boys
    Harriet to St. Paul's Girls...
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    O/T

    Betfair's half year PBT to 31.10.14 has increased by 112% from £31.7m to £67.3M compared with the corresponding period last year.

    Betfair might say : all contributions gratefully received, especially from PBers.
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    Charles said:

    Moses_ said:

    Scott_P said:

    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Balls lived at Eton.
    And contact to popular opinion OSBORNE DID NOT GO TO ETON. He was at St Paul's Hammersmith.
    But... but....That's where Harriet Dromey went ? Non? Or some public Skool with a very similar name?
    Osborne went to St. Paul's Boys
    Harriet to St. Paul's Girls...
    Out of curiosity are St Pauls and Westminster viewed differently ?

    Is one regarded as posher or better or takes people from different background than the other.

    And does anyone think of Harrow as a London public school now or is that still compared with Eton, Winchester etc ?

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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Just watched the BBC shown film of the choke victim. I have to say he was not showing any gun, he had his arms up, palms outwards fingers splayed to show complete total and entire compliance with instructions ,

    Then 5 or 6 cops jumped him??? One around the neck.

    I always support the police but WTF?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Did George really promise a freeze on working age benefits, and lowering the welfare cap. If so, then how long for, and how low?

    It really is a major erosion of the welfare state. Probably an overdue one, and only do-able while unemployment is low and jobs being created.

    Where is ALP when we need his yellow boxes?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Moses_ said:

    Scott_P said:

    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Balls lived at Eton.
    And contact to popular opinion OSBORNE DID NOT GO TO ETON. He was at St Paul's Hammersmith.
    But... but....That's where Harriet Dromey went ? Non? Or some public Skool with a very similar name?
    Osborne went to St. Paul's Boys
    Harriet to St. Paul's Girls...
    Out of curiosity are St Pauls and Westminster viewed differently ?

    Is one regarded as posher or better or takes people from different background than the other.

    And does anyone think of Harrow as a London public school now or is that still compared with Eton, Winchester etc ?

    Harrow is slipping into the second division.

    Westminster compared to Eton and Winchester (although rather rich but not posh parents)

    St. Paul's seen as the best London day school - different positioning entirely
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Moses_ said:

    Just watched the BBC shown film of the choke victim. I have to say he was not showing any gun, he had his arms up, palms outwards fingers splayed to show complete total and entire compliance with instructions ,

    Then 5 or 6 cops jumped him??? One around the neck.

    I always support the police but WTF?

    Both sides seem to be frequently rather naughty, as can be seen when the police wear personal cameras, look what happens to complaints/uses of force:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/01/obama-police-body-cameras_n_6250146.html
    One frequently cited pilot program in Rialto, California, found that between 2012 and 2013, in the first year of the city using police cameras, the number of complaints filed against officers fell by 88 percent and use of force by officers fell by almost 60 percent.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Did George really promise a freeze on working age benefits, and lowering the welfare cap. If so, then how long for, and how low?

    It really is a major erosion of the welfare state. Probably an overdue one, and only do-able while unemployment is low and jobs being created.

    Where is ALP when we need his yellow boxes?

    He certainly said on R5 he wants to lower the cap to 23k in the next parly - not sure it is possible with the LDs.

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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited December 2014
    Charles said:

    Moses_ said:

    Scott_P said:

    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Balls lived at Eton.
    And contact to popular opinion OSBORNE DID NOT GO TO ETON. He was at St Paul's Hammersmith.
    But... but....That's where Harriet Dromey went ? Non? Or some public Skool with a very similar name?
    Osborne went to St. Paul's Boys
    Harriet to St. Paul's Girls...
    Thanks Charles for the clarification

    But Harriet could not possibly have gone to a public Skool. So I think you are very wrong there.

    I mean she has spent here entire life and political career fighting against public and grammar stools so she would never ever ever ever have gone to one herself.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @stephenkb: Flashforward to 2019: Rachel Reeves points out forlornly that Sajid Javid has fallen slightly short of the Balls deficit plan.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited December 2014
    Charles said:

    MikeK said:
    Cool. A party that tells the truth.

    So, when you win 80 seats in 2015 and become a key part of the next Coalition government, how will you reduce spending by £100 billion?

    (Specifics please. And "Europe" is unrealistic - the net cost is probably about £10bn, but a it's likely that much of that spending would be replaced by UK equivalent programmes)
    There are some listed on UKIP's website, it is pretty thin.

    But Labour, Conservatives and LDs have proven their unwillingness to cut spending in government so UKIP win the 'fiscal conservative' contest by default.

    "Reducing debts we leave to our grandchildren

    – UKIP will leave the EU and save at least £8bn pa in net contributions.

    – UKIP will cut the foreign aid budget by £9bn pa, prioritising disaster relief and schemes which provide water and inoculation against preventable diseases.

    – UKIP will scrap the HS2 project which is uneconomical and unjustified.

    – UKIP will abolish the Department of Energy and Climate Change and scrap green subsidies.

    – UKIP will abolish the Department for Culture Media and Sport.

    – UKIP will reduce Barnett Formula spending and give devolved parliaments and assemblies further tax powers to compensate."

    http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people

    http://www.ukip.org/speeches_from_annual_conference
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    All those completing on their home sales in the next few days will have quite a few more pounds in their pockets - what a timely gift from HMRC.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MarkitEconomics: French ILO #unemployment rate rises to 10.4% in Q3 (10.1% in Q2)

    So Ed, how is France's bold new vision for the economy working out then...?
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    Morning all,

    Bit surprised how little discussion there is generally about inflation. I had a quick scan of the OBR's document - they are predicting below 2% until 2017. This is big news, surely - given the years and years of above the BoE expected figure. All the flim flam about this autumn statement will be long forgotten if we enter into deflation.
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    Mr. Rottenborough, below 2% isn't necessarily deflation.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,068

    All those completing on their home sales in the next few days will have quite a few more pounds in their pockets - what a timely gift from HMRC.

    I'm in my 70's and have bought three and sold two houses in my 50+ married years. I'm not likely to sell my present abode.
    The change in stamp duty will benefit my grandchildren, might benefit my children, but how will it benefit me?
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    ' Yesterday reminded me of his brilliant move in October 2007 when the Tories were trailing in the polls and all the talk was of Gordon Brown calling a snap election. Osbo made an announcement on what a CON government would do with inheritance tax laws and at one stroke the media narrative changed. '

    I can show an old ConHome comment where I suggested the IHT change before Osborne announced it.

    Although I've always thought that Brown's loss of bottle happened during the Labour conference and not because of anything Osborne said, whether or not Osborne got his big idea from me.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That is a brilliantly stupid quote from Mr Balls - I read it three times just to be sure it said what I thought it did.

    What a numpty.
    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: .@edballsmp on stamp duty reform: “We would have done it but we didn't because we had other things to do.” #r4today

    Like trashing banking regulation

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Indigo said:

    Patrick said:

    Labour are a party without a plan or a vision that reflects the reality of the world we live in.

    As was mentioned last week, they have to decide what they are for first. Its not enough to be "not the Tories"
    Disagree. It may easily be enough to be "not the Tories".

    The Tories are nasty, corrupt, in it for themselves and their fat-cat bankster buddies, and don't care for the poor, sick or disabled.

    Not being the Tories gets them instantly a very decent core and then if they promise to copy the Cons that will get them a few more and then if they have a moment of clarity and some fancy policy (just needs one by now) that will sweep up a few more.

    Could easily do it.
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    Mr. Rottenborough, below 2% isn't necessarily deflation.

    No, but EU zone seems to be heading that way and we could then 'import' it across the channel. Obviously oil price is a key factor.
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    NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    No mention of the Big Society on this thread, which just happened to be the centrepiece of the Tories' 2010 Election campaign.

    This abysmal failure means there is no replacement for the services cut by the Tories.

    Labour will easily win the next election because of this.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    edited December 2014

    Charles said:

    Moses_ said:

    Scott_P said:

    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Balls lived at Eton.
    And contact to popular opinion OSBORNE DID NOT GO TO ETON. He was at St Paul's Hammersmith.
    But... but....That's where Harriet Dromey went ? Non? Or some public Skool with a very similar name?
    Osborne went to St. Paul's Boys
    Harriet to St. Paul's Girls...
    Out of curiosity are St Pauls and Westminster viewed differently ?

    Is one regarded as posher or better or takes people from different background than the other.

    And does anyone think of Harrow as a London public school now or is that still compared with Eton, Winchester etc ?

    Westminster smarter, St. Paul's academically better, Harrow not a London public school.

    (Edit: "smarter" not as in academically or intellectually smarter)
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    All those completing on their home sales in the next few days will have quite a few more pounds in their pockets - what a timely gift from HMRC.

    I'm in my 70's and have bought three and sold two houses in my 50+ married years. I'm not likely to sell my present abode.
    The change in stamp duty will benefit my grandchildren, might benefit my children, but how will it benefit me?
    They will have a bit more cash to make the house nicer when you visit.

    Or if they work in the building or home furnishing trade they may have more overtime.

    However if they are a diversity coordinator they might be worse off.

    Etc.

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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Scott_P said:

    @MarkitEconomics: French ILO #unemployment rate rises to 10.4% in Q3 (10.1% in Q2)

    So Ed, how is France's bold new vision for the economy working out then...?

    Superb

    Can't wait until May when Labour get in and then we can follow France as Ed wants us too

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    Mr. Rottenborough, a good point on the sinking ship that is the eurozone. We're not aboard, but we may get dragged down.
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    FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    Charles said:

    Moses_ said:

    Scott_P said:

    felix said:

    OT.

    It all seems to me to boil down to the fact that Balls went to a second rate public school and Ozzy went to Eton. No contest:))))))

    Balls lived at Eton.
    And contact to popular opinion OSBORNE DID NOT GO TO ETON. He was at St Paul's Hammersmith.
    But... but....That's where Harriet Dromey went ? Non? Or some public Skool with a very similar name?
    Osborne went to St. Paul's Boys
    Harriet to St. Paul's Girls...
    Out of curiosity are St Pauls and Westminster viewed differently ?

    Is one regarded as posher or better or takes people from different background than the other.

    And does anyone think of Harrow as a London public school now or is that still compared with Eton, Winchester etc ?

    Westminster has a higher cache, St Paul's has a more cosmopolitan student body which puts many parents, including my own back in the day, off.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited December 2014
    Ninoinoz said:

    No mention of the Big Society on this thread, which just happened to be the centrepiece of the Tories' 2010 Election campaign.

    This abysmal failure means there is no replacement for the services cut by the Tories.

    Labour will easily win the next election because of this.

    The council Xmas off site bonding weekend isn't an essential service.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Gushing front page from the Daily Mail tommorow 1 point
    Gushing front page from the Sun tommorow 1 point

    2 more points for the bingo card
This discussion has been closed.