I don't think the Tories are burying their head in the sand - it is more that in every actual vote in God knows how long, Labour is not doing well:
- it nearly lost Heywood and Middleton - it's vote collapsed in Rochester (the Conservatives also fell but as NF said, it was labour-leaning Strood that switched decisively) - it didn't do anything in Clacton - Bar London, Labour had an awful European election result.
The thing that ought to frighten Labour is that, every time when people are focused on voting, Labour seems to suffer.
Ignore real votes and listen to the wise people, polls , especially negative ones for the Tories are much more important. Let us forget that last weeks Ashcroft poll told a slightly different story
Are you sure the real reason that you're limiting your exposure to the British economy isn't that you realise whoever wins the next election, the economy is doomed, because all Cameron and Osborne have been doing has been kicking the can and allowing Labour being worse to mask their own wilful refusal to stem the gushing arterial bleeding of money out of this country?
Given the starting point and world economic conditions, the government has done quite astonishingly well. In absolute terms the UK is in a massively better position than it was in 2010, and in relative terms is doing better than any other major economy apart from the US (and in some ways even better than the US).
Of course there are huge challenges, but so there are in China (and the commodity-reliant economies like Australia), Japan, and most particularly the Eurozone. We can get through it and gradually get back on track, if we continue Osborne's well-judged economic policies, or we can slide back into decline like France under Hollande. The electorate will decide which it is.
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
This is complete nonsense. It's the government's job to fund and manage state education, not the responsibility of private schools.
The underlying assumption is that private schools are better. If this is the case then the government shoold look at what they are doing right and then try to emulate it in state schools. This would involve abandoning dogma though.
Threatening the private schools because state schools are bad is just idiotic.
Private schools can be profit-making enterprises which don't have responsibilities to wider society, or they can be charities. But I've long been confused at how they can be both.
Rochester effect: Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn 7m7 minutes ago YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Respite for Ed Mili as 4 point lead back with UKIP's Rochester bounce. LAB 34%, CON 30%, UKIP 18%, LDEM 6%, GRN 6%
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
But even I can see privately educated Hunt will be ridiculed
No, having said that it's not Cameron's fault that he went to Eton, I also think it's not Hunt's fault where he went. The important thing is the lessons people learn - if Hunt's experience has helped show him that making the narrowly-focused private schools into charities is an eccentricity that we can't afford, that's fine.
We can't afford public sector pensions either, can we scrap them as well please?
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
But even I can see privately educated Hunt will be ridiculed
No, having said that it's not Cameron's fault that he went to Eton, I also think it's not Hunt's fault where he went. The important thing is the lessons people learn - if Hunt's experience has helped show him that making the narrowly-focused private schools into charities is an eccentricity that we can't afford, that's fine.
If that's the case, let's have a cull of the many other narrowly focused 'charities' we can no longer afford. There's plenty of streamlining to be done there.
'Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.'
So the tax break ends and lots of private schools close / are priced out of business,hope Hunt has a plan and budget to fund all the additional state school students.
Who's going to make the decision whether a private school is "compliant"? Some Labour-appointed quangocrat?
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
This is complete nonsense. It's the government's job to fund and manage state education, not the responsibility of private schools.
The underlying assumption is that private schools are better. If this is the case then the government shoold look at what they are doing right and then try to emulate it in state schools. This would involve abandoning dogma though.
Threatening the private schools because state schools are bad is just idiotic.
Private schools can be profit-making enterprises which don't have responsibilities to wider society, or they can be charities. But I've long been confused at how they can be both.
Are you sure the real reason that you're limiting your exposure to the British economy isn't that you realise whoever wins the next election, the economy is doomed, because all Cameron and Osborne have been doing has been kicking the can and allowing Labour being worse to mask their own wilful refusal to stem the gushing arterial bleeding of money out of this country?
Given the starting point, the government has done quite astonishingly well. In absolute terms the UK is in a massively better position than it was in 2010, and in relative terms is doing better than any other major economy apart from the US.
Of course there are huge challenges, but so there are in China (and the commodity-reliant economies like Australia), Japan, and most particularly the Eurozone. We can get through it and dradually get back on track, if we continue Osborne's well-judged economic policies, or we can slide back into decline like France under Hollande. The electorate will decide which it is.
That's weird, I distinctly remember you saying that cutting the deficit by half was inadequate and that losing AAA rating would be catastrophic. You used to condemn others for mentioning the global economy.
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Respite for Ed Mili as 4 point lead back with UKIP's Rochester bounce. LAB 34%, CON 30%, UKIP 18%, LDEM 6%, GRN 6%
Fantastic Monday polls for LAB Average poll lead today 4.67% good start for this weeks ELBOW
Tonights YG LAB 345 CON 255 LD 21 (UKPR)
EICIPM
YG Nov average looks like only being a 1% lead though so still all to play for
' if Hunt's experience has helped show him that making the narrowly-focused private schools into charities is an eccentricity that we can't afford, that's fine.'
So what's the additional cost of say 50% of privately educated students switching to state education ?
Today's polls have Labour leads of 5, 5 and 4. Tomorrow night we should have the comres phone poll.
It will be interesting to see how things settle by the end of the week, if UKIP can produce another record high with any pollster and if the Labour lead continues at these levels.
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
'Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.'
So the tax break ends and lots of private schools close / are priced out of business,hope Hunt has a plan and budget to fund all the additional state school students.
God are we back to this nonsense again. Soak the rich, class war etc etc etc.
Last time they were in power it was all about the charity commissions (who shouldn't be political) leaning on schools to do Labour's dirty work.
Ed is definitely trying to pi$$ off any final remaining inspirational middle class types that loved Blair in 97.
I'm looking forward to these late-night threads during the weeks running up to the General Election. In 2010 you could set your watch by them, so to speak:
'Wibbly wobbly Tory bottoms...'
'Cameron! Pledge a referendum on EU membership. Now!'
I received a video message from Paddy Ashdown this evening thanking me for a donation to the Lib Dems. No problem there - I give quite frequently. But apparently someone - or a group of someones - have matched my donation and all others. I have been trying to find out who these people are - and how much has been raised. Can anyone help?
' if Hunt's experience has helped show him that making the narrowly-focused private schools into charities is an eccentricity that we can't afford, that's fine.'
So what's the additional cost of say 50% of privately educated students switching to state education ?
Don't confuse him, he is Labour so money doesn't concern him, someone else will pay
Off-topic: I'm heading for a weekend in Vienna on 5 December, staying in the Favoriten district. Any PBers got tips for the sights, restaurants, WWI/WWII stuff, etc?
That's weird, I distinctly remember you saying that cutting the deficit by half was inadequate and that losing AAA rating would be catastrophic. You used to condemn others for mentioning the global economy.
- Cutting the deficit in half is inadequate, and more needs to be done.
- Luckily we kept our AAA rating with S+P, the most important ratings agency, but, yes, the wobble of 2010/11 was worrying.
- I have never, ever, on any occasion, condemned anyone for considering global economic conditions when evaluating the UK's performance. Quite the opposite, in fact; I pointed out on many occasions that Labour's legacy was to leave us with the worst deficit of any major economy, a mind-blowing overspend under Darling of one pound for every three pounds of revenue.
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
This is complete nonsense. It's the government's job to fund and manage state education, not the responsibility of private schools.
The underlying assumption is that private schools are better. If this is the case then the government shoold look at what they are doing right and then try to emulate it in state schools. This would involve abandoning dogma though.
Threatening the private schools because state schools are bad is just idiotic.
Private schools can be profit-making enterprises which don't have responsibilities to wider society, or they can be charities. But I've long been confused at how they can be both.
They do not make a profit.
I hope that unconfuses you.
Almost, now I'm confused about something else. What do they spend all the extra money on? Seriously, I don't know how much state schools get per pupil but I've always assumed it is a fraction of the £10k some private schools charge.
I received a video message from Paddy Ashdown this evening thanking me for a donation to the Lib Dems. No problem there - I give quite frequently. But apparently someone - or a group of someones - have matched my donation and all others. I have been trying to find out who these people are - and how much has been raised. Can anyone help?
Alan Bown, his way of ensuring UKIP continue to thrive.
'Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.'
So the tax break ends and lots of private schools close / are priced out of business,hope Hunt has a plan and budget to fund all the additional state school students.
God are we back to this nonsense again. Soak the rich, class war etc etc etc.
Last time they were in power it was all about the charity commissions (who shouldn't be political) leaning on schools to do Labour's dirty work.
Ed is definitely trying to pi$$ off any final remaining inspirational middle class types that loved Blair in 97.
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
But even I can see privately educated Hunt will be ridiculed
No, having said that it's not Cameron's fault that he went to Eton, I also think it's not Hunt's fault where he went. The important thing is the lessons people learn - if Hunt's experience has helped show him that making the narrowly-focused private schools into charities is an eccentricity that we can't afford, that's fine.
I am sure the sun, daily mail, express, star et al will still run with the Hunt story for months though.
As I say I agree with the policy but playing the man will weaken its appeal i think
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
This is complete nonsense. It's the government's job to fund and manage state education, not the responsibility of private schools.
The underlying assumption is that private schools are better. If this is the case then the government shoold look at what they are doing right and then try to emulate it in state schools. This would involve abandoning dogma though.
Threatening the private schools because state schools are bad is just idiotic.
Private schools can be profit-making enterprises which don't have responsibilities to wider society, or they can be charities. But I've long been confused at how they can be both.
They do not make a profit.
I hope that unconfuses you.
Almost, now I'm confused about something else. What do they spend all the extra money on? Seriously, I don't know how much state schools get per pupil but I've always assumed it is a fraction of the £10k some private schools charge.
Can't you work it out?
Smaller class sizes so more teachers, better facilities etc
Will you be calling on Conservative supporters in Heywood & Middleton and Rotherham to vote UKIP next year ?
No, whilst UKIPers like you accuse me of condoning child abuse, it ain't gonna happen.
The Screaming Eagles = Ed's little helper.
On that issue perhaps you could give your views on the government's response to the Jay report.
After all you don't want anyone thinking you might condone child abuse do you.
I'm not going to engage you on this topic, as you're clearly messed up in the head to use child abuse to score partisan point scoring for us to have a sensible discussion on this topic.
Like the vile child rapists/abusers, you don't see these are people and victims, but things to be used and abused to get your kicks.
Off-topic: I'm heading for a weekend in Vienna on 5 December, staying in the Favoriten district. Any PBers got tips for the sights, restaurants, WWI/WWII stuff, etc?
You have chosen the wrong time to visit Vienna, the best time is in the early summer. Still try to visit the former royal palaces, or the Prater amusement park known from the film The Third Man or the opera house.
There are somewhat more than 600,000 children in independent schools. To lose the charitable status tax breaks would be the equivalent of roughly £1200 per head. If the schools tell HMG to muck off they lose any obligation to partner state schools, share teachers and facilities, provide bursaries etc. at a cost that given the current scale of fees is not terribly significant. Some of the smaller schools might be forced to close but overall who would actually gain by removing charitable status?
That's weird, I distinctly remember you saying that cutting the deficit by half was inadequate and that losing AAA rating would be catastrophic. You used to condemn others for mentioning the global economy.
- Cutting the deficit in half is inadequate, and more needs to be done.
- Luckily we kept our AAA rating with S+P, the most important ratings agency, but, yes, the wobble of 2010/11 was worrying.
- I have never, ever, on any occasion, condemned anyone for considering global economic conditions when evaluating the UK's performance. Quite the opposite, in fact; I pointed out on many occasions that Labour's legacy was to leave us with the worst deficit of any major economy, a mind-blowing overspend under Darling of one pound for every three pounds of revenue.
So in short the Tories have failed on their primary goal...
"We will safeguard Britain’s credit rating with a credible plan to eliminate the bulk of the structural deficit over a Parliament. "
We can only assume that they will fail again in next parliament if given the chance.
Sadly, we cannot afford another 5 wasted years. So we have to take the latest claims of Tory grand economic plans with a heap of salt.
And FWIW you have certainly spun 180 degrees on considering global factors in the causes of UK performance.
Off-topic: I'm heading for a weekend in Vienna on 5 December, staying in the Favoriten district. Any PBers got tips for the sights, restaurants, WWI/WWII stuff, etc?
You have chosen the wrong time to visit Vienna, the best time is in the early summer. Still try to visit the former royal palaces, or the Prater amusement park known from the film The Third Man or the opera house.
Probably, but it's really a diversion from my visit to Slovakia for my final dental treatment... The Third Man stuff is a must, of course, and in winter it'll seem more atmospheric, I suppose.
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
This is complete nonsense. It's the government's job to fund and manage state education, not the responsibility of private schools.
The underlying assumption is that private schools are better. If this is the case then the government shoold look at what they are doing right and then try to emulate it in state schools. This would involve abandoning dogma though.
Threatening the private schools because state schools are bad is just idiotic.
Private schools can be profit-making enterprises which don't have responsibilities to wider society, or they can be charities. But I've long been confused at how they can be both.
They do not make a profit.
I hope that unconfuses you.
Almost, now I'm confused about something else. What do they spend all the extra money on? Seriously, I don't know how much state schools get per pupil but I've always assumed it is a fraction of the £10k some private schools charge.
Can't you work it out?
Smaller class sizes so more teachers, better facilities etc
The average private school fee is almost 3 times the average spend per student in state schools. The class sizes should be single digits by a simple teacher ratio and so on.
'Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.'
So the tax break ends and lots of private schools close / are priced out of business,hope Hunt has a plan and budget to fund all the additional state school students.
God are we back to this nonsense again. Soak the rich, class war etc etc etc.
Last time they were in power it was all about the charity commissions (who shouldn't be political) leaning on schools to do Labour's dirty work.
Ed is definitely trying to pi$$ off any final remaining inspirational middle class types that loved Blair in 97.
I don't think most people who voted Blair in 1997 would in hindsight vote for Blair or anyone like Blair ever again.
I find it totally amazing how Tories on this site fail to see the weakness of their position. They are betting everything on a belief that negative views of EdM will see them through.
There are somewhat more than 600,000 children in independent schools. To lose the charitable status tax breaks would be the equivalent of roughly £1200 per head. If the schools tell HMG to muck off they lose any obligation to partner state schools, share teachers and facilities, provide bursaries etc. at a cost that given the current scale of fees is not terribly significant. Some of the smaller schools might be forced to close but overall who would actually gain by removing charitable status?
The whole thing is bollox, its purpose is to keep bigjohnowls happy.
That's weird, I distinctly remember you saying that cutting the deficit by half was inadequate and that losing AAA rating would be catastrophic. You used to condemn others for mentioning the global economy.
- Cutting the deficit in half is inadequate, and more needs to be done.
- Luckily we kept our AAA rating with S+P, the most important ratings agency, but, yes, the wobble of 2010/11 was worrying.
- I have never, ever, on any occasion, condemned anyone for considering global economic conditions when evaluating the UK's performance. Quite the opposite, in fact; I pointed out on many occasions that Labour's legacy was to leave us with the worst deficit of any major economy, a mind-blowing overspend under Darling of one pound for every three pounds of revenue.
Spending should balance over the economic cycle. What the govt are doing as well as creating growth to do just that, is to cut is spending and in part raise taxes to eliminate the structural deficit. ''According to the latest International Monetary Fund fiscal monitor, the cyclically-adjusted deficit has come down from 10.3% of gross domestic product in 2009 to 4.1% this year, a big reduction. One reason is that there is still a lot left to do is that Osborne toughened his own target, aiming for an overall budget surplus in the next parliament rather than just eliminating the current deficit.'' http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002058.html#more
http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002059.html 'Forecasts are forecasts, and they could all be wrong. All the forecasters emphasise that there are risks, particularly in the eurozone. But if we look at the detail of what is happening, it suggests we should not be too pessimistic ..... That is also the outlook for the eurozone, but it is important to distinguish between the current growth weakness, centred on France, Italy and Germany, and the earlier pronounced weakness of the so-called peripheral economies – Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Greece – which threatened to break up the system. There is much less risk of euro break-up, which would have given us a second global financial crisis, then than now.'
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
This is complete nonsense. It's the government's job to fund and manage state education, not the responsibility of private schools.
The underlying assumption is that private schools are better. If this is the case then the government shoold look at what they are doing right and then try to emulate it in state schools. This would involve abandoning dogma though.
Threatening the private schools because state schools are bad is just idiotic.
Private schools can be profit-making enterprises which don't have responsibilities to wider society, or they can be charities. But I've long been confused at how they can be both.
They do not make a profit.
I hope that unconfuses you.
Almost, now I'm confused about something else. What do they spend all the extra money on? Seriously, I don't know how much state schools get per pupil but I've always assumed it is a fraction of the £10k some private schools charge.
Some might charge 10k pounds - when my daughter attended my old boarding school, it was MUCH more than that.
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
This is complete nonsense. It's the government's job to fund and manage state education, not the responsibility of private schools.
The underlying assumption is that private schools are better. If this is the case then the government shoold look at what they are doing right and then try to emulate it in state schools. This would involve abandoning dogma though.
Threatening the private schools because state schools are bad is just idiotic.
Private schools can be profit-making enterprises which don't have responsibilities to wider society, or they can be charities. But I've long been confused at how they can be both.
They do not make a profit.
I hope that unconfuses you.
Almost, now I'm confused about something else. What do they spend all the extra money on? Seriously, I don't know how much state schools get per pupil but I've always assumed it is a fraction of the £10k some private schools charge.
Can't you work it out?
Smaller class sizes so more teachers, better facilities etc
The average private school fee is almost 3 times the average spend per student in state schools. The class sizes should be single digits by a simple teacher ratio and so on.
Local private schools here have class sizes of 10 to 15, equivalent State schools have 30 plus.
Factor in the other better facilities and it's easy to see where the money goes.
And FWIW you have certainly spun 180 degrees on considering global factors in the causes of UK performance.
No, I most certainly haven't. I have always considered global factors in assessing the UK economic performance.
For some bizarre reason (well, not bizarre, it's very obvious) Labour supporters don't seem to be able to keep two ideas in their heads simultaneously: 1 Labour was not responsible for the global financial crisis; 2 Labour was responsible for the particularly dire relative performance of the UK when the crisis hit.
Maybe if Tristram Hunt and his privately educated peers Shirley Williams and Richard Crossland had not tried to close down most of the grammar schools more state schools would have been able to compete with the top private schools. Even Finland selects at 16. Labour also ended assisted places, one of the best ways for talented pupils from lower income backgrounds to get a private school place
And FWIW you have certainly spun 180 degrees on considering global factors in the causes of UK performance.
No, I most certainly haven't. I have always considered global factors in assessing the UK economic performance.
For some bizarre reason (well, not bizarre, it's very obvious) Labour supporters don't seem to be able to keep two ideas in their heads simultaneously: 1 Labour was not responsible for the global financial crisis; 2 Labour was responsible for the particularly dire relative performance of the UK when the crisis hit.
AKA.They didn't fix the roof while the sun was shining and maxed out GB's credit card.
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
This is complete nonsense. It's the government's job to fund and manage state education, not the responsibility of private schools.
The underlying assumption is that private schools are better. If this is the case then the government shoold look at what they are doing right and then try to emulate it in state schools. This would involve abandoning dogma though.
Threatening the private schools because state schools are bad is just idiotic.
Private schools can be profit-making enterprises which don't have responsibilities to wider society, or they can be charities. But I've long been confused at how they can be both.
They do not make a profit.
I hope that unconfuses you.
Almost, now I'm confused about something else. What do they spend all the extra money on? Seriously, I don't know how much state schools get per pupil but I've always assumed it is a fraction of the £10k some private schools charge.
20-30% goes on fee reductions for scholars, bursaries, etc.
Teachers typically are significantly higher paid
There is also substantial investment (arguably over investment) in facilities
Off-topic: I'm heading for a weekend in Vienna on 5 December, staying in the Favoriten district. Any PBers got tips for the sights, restaurants, WWI/WWII stuff, etc?
You have chosen the wrong time to visit Vienna, the best time is in the early summer. Still try to visit the former royal palaces, or the Prater amusement park known from the film The Third Man or the opera house.
Probably, but it's really a diversion from my visit to Slovakia for my final dental treatment... The Third Man stuff is a must, of course, and in winter it'll seem more atmospheric, I suppose.
Royal Palaces and the Prater are a must. So many great museums including the Art History museum in the museum quarter. St Stephens cathedral disappointed me a bit as I found it too dark - Voltivskirche, MinoritenKirche, Franciscan Church etc much better. Town Hall is a hugely impressive building as well as the Parliament. Make sure you visit Demmel, the famous cake shop just off the main shopping street. Musikverein - the main concert hall for the great New Year concerts is a must at night if you ask me. The zoo is also well worth a visit (oldest zoo in the world IIRC). Such a great city - 2nd best in Europe after Venice IMHO if we exclude London from consideration. Try and visit one of the many coffee shops as well. Didn't get time to go to the Jewish quarter (district 2) so would want to take that in next time I visit. Don't bother with the OPEC building, probably the most modern in the centre of Vienna and looks horridly out of place compared to its majestic surroundings.
It should be said that Labour has not seen an uptick of note today - the widening of the gap appears to be down to Tory poor performance. I expect therefore the lead to revert to 1-2 points. What can be said is that the Emily Klass War has left the polling unaffected. Worth remembering when we next get over excited
Off-topic: I'm heading for a weekend in Vienna on 5 December, staying in the Favoriten district. Any PBers got tips for the sights, restaurants, WWI/WWII stuff, etc?
You have chosen the wrong time to visit Vienna, the best time is in the early summer. Still try to visit the former royal palaces, or the Prater amusement park known from the film The Third Man or the opera house.
Probably, but it's really a diversion from my visit to Slovakia for my final dental treatment... The Third Man stuff is a must, of course, and in winter it'll seem more atmospheric, I suppose.
Maybe if Tristram Hunt and his privately educated peers Shirley Williams and Richard Crossland had not tried to close down most of the grammar schools more state schools would have been able to compete with the top private schools. Even Finland selects at 16. Labour also ended assisted places, one of the best ways for talented pupils from lower income backgrounds to get a private school place
Hurrah, bring back grammar schools is a huge thing for me
Looks like Labour are going after private schools.
Britain’s private schools will lose £700m in tax breaks unless they agree to break down the “corrosive divide of privilege” and do more to help children from state schools, Tristram Hunt, shadow education secretary, writes in the Guardian.
This is complete nonsense. It's the government's job to fund and manage state education, not the responsibility of private schools.
The underlying assumption is that private schools are better. If this is the case then the government shoold look at what they are doing right and then try to emulate it in state schools. This would involve abandoning dogma though.
Threatening the private schools because state schools are bad is just idiotic.
Private schools can be profit-making enterprises which don't have responsibilities to wider society, or they can be charities. But I've long been confused at how they can be both.
They do not make a profit.
I hope that unconfuses you.
Almost, now I'm confused about something else. What do they spend all the extra money on? Seriously, I don't know how much state schools get per pupil but I've always assumed it is a fraction of the £10k some private schools charge.
A couple of years ago the local spend was £5,500 per child in state schools in the LEA. Let us assume its now £6,000. If 15% of the 600,000 private pupils leave because of the extra £1,200 a head increase in fees and are switched to the state system the per head cost = £540m pa. The £1,200 a head tax estimates mentioned would bring in £612m. On top of that is the extra capital spending required...... So no effing saving to the state......
"No, having said that it's not Cameron's fault that he went to Eton, I also think it's not Hunt's fault where he went. "
I would normally accept this, that school is mainly a matter of parental choice. And so I would not normally damn a Labour MP for attending an independent school as a child.
However, Tristram's father (as I am sure you know) was a Labour councillor and is the Labour peer, Baron Hunt.
So, there doesn't seem to be any excuse.
In fact, it looks on a par with Professor Balls, who campaigned against the 11 plus, and then send his son to independent school.
I would have thought that generations of Labour families attending independent schools is pretty indefensible. It is exactly this that makes the Labour party look out of touch to its voters.
It should be said that Labour has not seen an uptick of note today - the widening of the gap appears to be down to Tory poor performance. I expect therefore the lead to revert to 1-2 points. What can be said is that the Emily Klass War has left the polling unaffected. Worth remembering when we next get over excited
Wobbly Monday for the Blues. Lets see if this is a consistent trend or on the worst side of the MoE for them. I find it hard to see the Tories polling less than the 31% they got in 1997 but I rule nothing out in this ultra fluid political climate that we find ourselves in. Lets see how the coalition gets on navigating the winter with the NHS and long range forecasts for some significant icy snowy blasts coming along. Plenty could change in the next 5 and a half months.
Some terrible legislation proposed by Theresa May - how on earth are they going to define what constitutes an extremist when checking universities and the like for what they have done to reduce the threat posed by extremists? Just don't see how those proposals are in the least bit workable at all.
Maybe if Tristram Hunt and his privately educated peers Shirley Williams and Richard Crossland had not tried to close down most of the grammar schools more state schools would have been able to compete with the top private schools. Even Finland selects at 16. Labour also ended assisted places, one of the best ways for talented pupils from lower income backgrounds to get a private school place
The triumph of dogma over reality and common sense
"No, having said that it's not Cameron's fault that he went to Eton, I also think it's not Hunt's fault where he went. "
I would normally accept this, that school is mainly a matter of parental choice. And so I would not normally damn a Labour MP for attending an independent school as a child.
However, Tristram's father (as I am sure you know) was a Labour councillor and is the Labour peer, Baron Hunt.
So, there doesn't seem to be any excuse.
In fact, it looks on a par with Professor Balls, who campaigned against the 11 plus, and then send his son to independent school.
I would have thought that generations of Labour families attending independent schools is pretty indefensible. It is exactly this that makes the Labour party look out of touch to its voters.
You might blame Baron Hunt for it but you can hardly blame Tristram!
Will you be calling on Conservative supporters in Heywood & Middleton and Rotherham to vote UKIP next year ?
No, whilst UKIPers like you accuse me of condoning child abuse, it ain't gonna happen.
The Screaming Eagles = Ed's little helper.
On that issue perhaps you could give your views on the government's response to the Jay report.
After all you don't want anyone thinking you might condone child abuse do you.
I'm not going to engage you on this topic, as you're clearly messed up in the head to use child abuse to score partisan point scoring for us to have a sensible discussion on this topic.
Like the vile child rapists/abusers, you don't see these are people and victims, but things to be used and abused to get your kicks.
Pathetic.
You sound exactly like tim when he kept accusing Socrates of the same thing.
I know people, both relatives and work colleagues, who live in the communities the victims come from so I could take offence but wont because I want a proper disccussion.
Now give your views on the government's response to the Jay report.
To make it easier for you to do so I will stay away from PB for a few days.
Tomorrow is the thirteenth week since the report so a fitting time for you to say what you think of the government's response.
Please confirm that you will do so during my absence.
Off-topic: I'm heading for a weekend in Vienna on 5 December, staying in the Favoriten district. Any PBers got tips for the sights, restaurants, WWI/WWII stuff, etc?
You have chosen the wrong time to visit Vienna, the best time is in the early summer. Still try to visit the former royal palaces, or the Prater amusement park known from the film The Third Man or the opera house.
Probably, but it's really a diversion from my visit to Slovakia for my final dental treatment... The Third Man stuff is a must, of course, and in winter it'll seem more atmospheric, I suppose.
Royal Palaces and the Prater are a must. So many great museums including the Art History museum in the museum quarter. St Stephens cathedral disappointed me a bit as I found it too dark - Voltivskirche, MinoritenKirche, Franciscan Church etc much better. Town Hall is a hugely impressive building as well as the Parliament. Make sure you visit Demmel, the famous cake shop just off the main shopping street. Musikverein - the main concert hall for the great New Year concerts is a must at night if you ask me. The zoo is also well worth a visit (oldest zoo in the world IIRC). Such a great city - 2nd best in Europe after Venice IMHO if we exclude London from consideration. Try and visit one of the many coffee shops as well. Didn't get time to go to the Jewish quarter (district 2) so would want to take that in next time I visit. Don't bother with the OPEC building, probably the most modern in the centre of Vienna and looks horridly out of place compared to its majestic surroundings.
The OPEC building? That's a small office building with only six floors, you would have thought with all that oil money they could build a bigger building but they don't need one I guess.
Will you be calling on Conservative supporters in Heywood & Middleton and Rotherham to vote UKIP next year ?
No, whilst UKIPers like you accuse me of condoning child abuse, it ain't gonna happen.
The Screaming Eagles = Ed's little helper.
On that issue perhaps you could give your views on the government's response to the Jay report.
After all you don't want anyone thinking you might condone child abuse do you.
I'm not going to engage you on this topic, as you're clearly messed up in the head to use child abuse to score partisan point scoring for us to have a sensible discussion on this topic.
Like the vile child rapists/abusers, you don't see these are people and victims, but things to be used and abused to get your kicks.
Pathetic.
You sound exactly like tim when he kept accusing Socrates of the same thing.
I know people, both relatives and work colleagues, who live in the communities the victims come from so I could take offence but wont because I want a proper disccussion.
Now give your views on the government's response to the Jay report.
To make it easier for you to do so I will stay away from PB for a few days.
Tomorrow is the thirteenth week since the report so a fitting time for you to say what you think of the government's response.
Please confirm that you will do so during my absence.
You can stay away as long as you like, it makes no odds to me. Bye, bye.
Will you be calling on Conservative supporters in Heywood & Middleton and Rotherham to vote UKIP next year ?
No, whilst UKIPers like you accuse me of condoning child abuse, it ain't gonna happen.
The Screaming Eagles = Ed's little helper.
On that issue perhaps you could give your views on the government's response to the Jay report.
After all you don't want anyone thinking you might condone child abuse do you.
Barking.
Perhaps you'd like to give your views on the government's response to the Rotherham report ?
Why would I get involved in discussion with somebody who would use the abuse of children as a weapon to attack a poster of good repute on here?
The government's response has been adequatre so far. Abusers are in jail and investigations are under way. Its only due to the objections of the victims that a full enquiry has not started. Pickles has started an investigation in to Rotherham. The scale of the scandal was uncovered by a Rotherham investigation. The IPCC has started an enquiry into the police. Meantime the SY police have arrested 3 more people and say they have several other investigations underway into the abuse. When you are a kipper you are not concerned about due process. You are concerned about whipping up hysteria for political gain. Kippers are not bothered about Farage ignoring racist comments from his own MEPs or indeed his own comments. They want to hear them and want to hear more.
Will you be calling on Conservative supporters in Heywood & Middleton and Rotherham to vote UKIP next year ?
No, whilst UKIPers like you accuse me of condoning child abuse, it ain't gonna happen.
The Screaming Eagles = Ed's little helper.
On that issue perhaps you could give your views on the government's response to the Jay report.
After all you don't want anyone thinking you might condone child abuse do you.
I'm not going to engage you on this topic, as you're clearly messed up in the head to use child abuse to score partisan point scoring for us to have a sensible discussion on this topic.
Like the vile child rapists/abusers, you don't see these are people and victims, but things to be used and abused to get your kicks.
Pathetic.
You sound exactly like tim when he kept accusing Socrates of the same thing.
I know people, both relatives and work colleagues, who live in the communities the victims come from so I could take offence but wont because I want a proper disccussion.
Now give your views on the government's response to the Jay report.
To make it easier for you to do so I will stay away from PB for a few days.
Tomorrow is the thirteenth week since the report so a fitting time for you to say what you think of the government's response.
Please confirm that you will do so during my absence.
He has a point TSE, it's been a long time since the scandal and the government has done nothing. Not that Labour would have done anything for voting reasons, but the government isn't supported by large numbers of so called ethnic voters from the north, so they don't have any visible excuse for doing nothing for months on this.
Will you be calling on Conservative supporters in Heywood & Middleton and Rotherham to vote UKIP next year ?
No, whilst UKIPers like you accuse me of condoning child abuse, it ain't gonna happen.
The Screaming Eagles = Ed's little helper.
On that issue perhaps you could give your views on the government's response to the Jay report.
After all you don't want anyone thinking you might condone child abuse do you.
Barking.
Perhaps you'd like to give your views on the government's response to the Rotherham report ?
Why would I get involved in discussion with somebody who would use the abuse of children as a weapon to attack a poster of good repute on here?
The government's response has been adequatre so far. Abusers are in jail and investigations are under way. Its only due to the objections of the victims that a full enquiry has not started. Pickles has started an investigation in to Rotherham. The scale of the scandal was uncovered by a Rotherham investigation. The IPCC has started an enquiry into the police. Meantime the SY police have arrested 3 more people and say they have several other investigations underway into the abuse. When you are a kipper you are not concerned about due process. You are concerned about whipping up hysteria for political gain. Kippers are not bothered about Farage ignoring racist comments from his own MEPs or indeed his own comments. They want to hear them and want to hear more.
Bringing Kippers into it just outlines your own insecurities, though I agree with the rest of your post.
Don't forget it was a UKIP supporting foster couple that had children taken away from them by the disgusting Joyce Thacker, while all the time she knew what was going on. Political dogma meant more than protecting vulnerable children.
Interesting discussion on the budget / structural deficit. As I said back in 2010, the coalition targets were never achievable on the basis of the demographics alone. On the income side, income tax revenue is well below forecast, mainly as a result of the almost non-existant wage growth for most. On the spending side, it looks like the government simply didn't allow for the demographics in forecasting how much spend is going out on public sector pensions. As for where we are in the economic cycle, well we're nearly 6 years into recovery since early 2009....and with the world economy forecast to turn down in the final quarter of next year, I would suggest that the structural deficit is much much larger than most current estimates. We should be running a budget surplus at this stage of the cycle, fat chance of that at the moment.
Pulpstar - had a quick look at the charts for Brent Crude Oil at the weekend, think the recent declines are about done and some retrace higher is due, but equally I think USD is near its high and we need a retrace higher on GBPUSD. On balance, would marginally favour your bet of over £50 at year end holding up but think its going to be close either way. Was a pleasure to meet you on Friday evening.
Wobbly Monday for the Blues. Lets see if this is a consistent trend or on the worst side of the MoE for them. I find it hard to see the Tories polling less than the 31% they got in 1997 but I rule nothing out in this ultra fluid political climate that we find ourselves in. Lets see how the coalition gets on navigating the winter with the NHS and long range forecasts for some significant icy snowy blasts coming along. Plenty could change in the next 5 and a half months.
Some terrible legislation proposed by Theresa May - how on earth are they going to define what constitutes an extremist when checking universities and the like for what they have done to reduce the threat posed by extremists? Just don't see how those proposals are in the least bit workable at all.
How do you define "extremist", does voting for opposition parties make you one? It surely does in most third world countries.
Comments
Of course there are huge challenges, but so there are in China (and the commodity-reliant economies like Australia), Japan, and most particularly the Eurozone. We can get through it and gradually get back on track, if we continue Osborne's well-judged economic policies, or we can slide back into decline like France under Hollande. The electorate will decide which it is.
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/newcastle-city-council-spends-3600-8086991
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn 7m7 minutes ago
YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Respite for Ed Mili as 4 point lead back with UKIP's Rochester bounce. LAB 34%, CON 30%, UKIP 18%, LDEM 6%, GRN 6%
I hope that unconfuses you.
LAB 34% (+1)
CON 30% (-3)
UKIP 18% (+2)
LD 6%=
GRN 6%=
Tonights YG LAB 345 CON 255 LD 21 (UKPR)
EICIPM
YG Nov average looks like only being a 1% lead though so still all to play for
' if Hunt's experience has helped show him that making the narrowly-focused private schools into charities is an eccentricity that we can't afford, that's fine.'
So what's the additional cost of say 50% of privately educated students switching to state education ?
Tomorrow night we should have the comres phone poll.
It will be interesting to see how things settle by the end of the week, if UKIP can produce another record high with any pollster and if the Labour lead continues at these levels.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/us/politics/rand-paul-calls-for-a-formal-declaration-of-war-against-isis.html?_r=2&assetType=nyt_now
Last time they were in power it was all about the charity commissions (who shouldn't be political) leaning on schools to do Labour's dirty work.
Ed is definitely trying to pi$$ off any final remaining inspirational middle class types that loved Blair in 97.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPL3yv-LbHA
'Wibbly wobbly Tory bottoms...'
'Cameron! Pledge a referendum on EU membership. Now!'
'Just sack Osborne.'
'That Michael Crick really is a ...'
- Luckily we kept our AAA rating with S+P, the most important ratings agency, but, yes, the wobble of 2010/11 was worrying.
- I have never, ever, on any occasion, condemned anyone for considering global economic conditions when evaluating the UK's performance. Quite the opposite, in fact; I pointed out on many occasions that Labour's legacy was to leave us with the worst deficit of any major economy, a mind-blowing overspend under Darling of one pound for every three pounds of revenue.
By committing political suicide they have done wonders for Labour.
As I say I agree with the policy but playing the man will weaken its appeal i think
On that issue perhaps you could give your views on the government's response to the Jay report.
After all you don't want anyone thinking you might condone child abuse do you.
Smaller class sizes so more teachers, better facilities etc
Like the vile child rapists/abusers, you don't see these are people and victims, but things to be used and abused to get your kicks.
A huge winter storm is due to hit the mid-atlantic and northeast at about mid-day Wednesday.
It's the perfect excuse not to travel for Thanksgiving! :-)
Still try to visit the former royal palaces, or the Prater amusement park known from the film The Third Man or the opera house.
I voted EDP in the SYPCC election - the UKIP candidate was crap and was an ex-plod.
"We will safeguard Britain’s credit rating with a credible plan to eliminate the bulk of the structural deficit over a Parliament. "
We can only assume that they will fail again in next parliament if given the chance.
Sadly, we cannot afford another 5 wasted years. So we have to take the latest claims of Tory grand economic plans with a heap of salt.
And FWIW you have certainly spun 180 degrees on considering global factors in the causes of UK performance.
The Third Man stuff is a must, of course, and in winter it'll seem more atmospheric, I suppose.
What the govt are doing as well as creating growth to do just that, is to cut is spending and in part raise taxes to eliminate the structural deficit.
''According to the latest International Monetary Fund fiscal monitor, the cyclically-adjusted deficit has come down from 10.3% of gross domestic product in 2009 to 4.1% this year, a big reduction. One reason is that there is still a lot left to do is that Osborne toughened his own target, aiming for an overall budget surplus in the next parliament rather than just eliminating the current deficit.''
http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002058.html#more
http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002059.html
'Forecasts are forecasts, and they could all be wrong. All the forecasters emphasise that there are risks, particularly in the eurozone. But if we look at the detail of what is happening, it suggests we should not be too pessimistic ..... That is also the outlook for the eurozone, but it is important to distinguish between the current growth weakness, centred on France, Italy and Germany, and the earlier pronounced weakness of the so-called peripheral economies – Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Greece – which threatened to break up the system. There is much less risk of euro break-up, which would have given us a second global financial crisis, then than now.'
Perhaps someone has only just realized you have 2?
To avoid these problems in the future, use only one screen name and only one screen name.
Factor in the other better facilities and it's easy to see where the money goes.
The average budget per state pupil in England is £4,550 ,so the tax break saves the state over £ 3,000.
Wonder what that means?
How many screen names can you have?
For some bizarre reason (well, not bizarre, it's very obvious) Labour supporters don't seem to be able to keep two ideas in their heads simultaneously: 1 Labour was not responsible for the global financial crisis; 2 Labour was responsible for the particularly dire relative performance of the UK when the crisis hit.
I'll prepare myself for smoting.
Your numerous active screen names has set off the spam trap, as spammers use various screen names from the same IP address.
Why don't you just settle for Bobaspam ?
My other one is Nigel4England
Teachers typically are significantly higher paid
There is also substantial investment (arguably over investment) in facilities
He wouldn't be able to make that comparison today, not with swiss bank accounts, CERN and Herzog&de Meuron.
If 15% of the 600,000 private pupils leave because of the extra £1,200 a head increase in fees and are switched to the state system the per head cost = £540m pa. The £1,200 a head tax estimates mentioned would bring in £612m. On top of that is the extra capital spending required...... So no effing saving to the state......
Mike was saying at DD how much he misses that onlywayisessex smoting victim!!!
"No, having said that it's not Cameron's fault that he went to Eton, I also think it's not Hunt's fault where he went. "
I would normally accept this, that school is mainly a matter of parental choice. And so I would not normally damn a Labour MP for attending an independent school as a child.
However, Tristram's father (as I am sure you know) was a Labour councillor and is the Labour peer, Baron Hunt.
So, there doesn't seem to be any excuse.
In fact, it looks on a par with Professor Balls, who campaigned against the 11 plus, and then send his son to independent school.
I would have thought that generations of Labour families attending independent schools is pretty indefensible. It is exactly this that makes the Labour party look out of touch to its voters.
Some terrible legislation proposed by Theresa May - how on earth are they going to define what constitutes an extremist when checking universities and the like for what they have done to reduce the threat posed by extremists? Just don't see how those proposals are in the least bit workable at all.
You sound exactly like tim when he kept accusing Socrates of the same thing.
I know people, both relatives and work colleagues, who live in the communities the victims come from so I could take offence but wont because I want a proper disccussion.
Now give your views on the government's response to the Jay report.
To make it easier for you to do so I will stay away from PB for a few days.
Tomorrow is the thirteenth week since the report so a fitting time for you to say what you think of the government's response.
Please confirm that you will do so during my absence.
You can delete my other one!!!!!
That's a small office building with only six floors, you would have thought with all that oil money they could build a bigger building but they don't need one I guess.
The scale of the scandal was uncovered by a Rotherham investigation. The IPCC has started an enquiry into the police.
Meantime the SY police have arrested 3 more people and say they have several other investigations underway into the abuse.
When you are a kipper you are not concerned about due process. You are concerned about whipping up hysteria for political gain.
Kippers are not bothered about Farage ignoring racist comments from his own MEPs or indeed his own comments. They want to hear them and want to hear more.
Mine was TheWatcher
Don't forget it was a UKIP supporting foster couple that had children taken away from them by the disgusting Joyce Thacker, while all the time she knew what was going on. Political dogma meant more than protecting vulnerable children.
Pulpstar - had a quick look at the charts for Brent Crude Oil at the weekend, think the recent declines are about done and some retrace higher is due, but equally I think USD is near its high and we need a retrace higher on GBPUSD. On balance, would marginally favour your bet of over £50 at year end holding up but think its going to be close either way. Was a pleasure to meet you on Friday evening.
It surely does in most third world countries.