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  • TGOHF said:

    Kippers shrieking about EU audits, whilst Farage and chums trouser unaccounted allowances, for 'banks of computers' and family on the payroll.

    You've got to laugh.

    That is the system set up by the EU. Blame them. At least Farage and UKIP are trying to get the UK out of it entirely. You seem content to let it carry on as is.
    Absolutely no hypocrisy there...
    You would have them refuse to accept the legitimate allowances and do their work for free? Its a thought I suppose and if we could get all MEPs to work for free then maybe I might be a little more sympathetic to them.
    UKIP MEPS have an appalling record for expense fraud in the EU . ITs only right people are sceptical of claims from that party
    If by appalling record you mean two cases - that of Tom Wise and Ashley Mote
    2 out of 13? How does that compare with other UK parties?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Andrew Neill on PMQs

    "LOTO saying to the Conservatives 'you're useless'...
    The PM saying to Labour 'you're useless'...

    and the public agrees with them because both are struggling to get to 30% in the polls which is unprecedented"

    It isn't unprecedented at all.

    There was an ICM that had the Tories and Lab (and the Lib Dems) on 30% in 2004.

    Also there was the time when the Tories and Lab were polling less than 30% and the Alliance was polling around 50%
    Andrew Neil's bad.

    Still, good for UKIP...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
  • TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Galloway isn't a Kipper!
  • isam said:

    Andrew Neill on PMQs

    "LOTO saying to the Conservatives 'you're useless'...
    The PM saying to Labour 'you're useless'...

    and the public agrees with them because both are struggling to get to 30% in the polls which is unprecedented"

    It isn't unprecedented at all.

    There was an ICM that had the Tories and Lab (and the Lib Dems) on 30% in 2004.

    Also there was the time when the Tories and Lab were polling less than 30% and the Alliance was polling around 50%
    And where is the Alliance now?
    I think most of the Lib Dems now are ex Alliance.
    50% then, struggling to reach 10% now.
    33 years is a long time in politics.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    Scott_P said:

    @LabourList: Unite endorse Neil Findlay for leader of Scottish Labour http://labli.st/1AhFuQ6

    Oh, thanks for that - and he's got ASLEF and Unison as well. I also note the comment

    "Unite has this week conducted a poll of members in Scotland, finding that 78% would prefer the leader to be a member of the Scottish Parliament. Worryingly for Labour, they also found that 54% who voted Labour in 2010 do not expect to do so again in 2010."

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Maybe we should have interfered by starting some kind of war?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2014

    It would be travesty enough to see Ed Miliband, the bloke that NOBODY wants to be PM (probably not even himself), get a majority or a workable minority on 32-35% of the vote. To do so when the combined Tory/UKIP vote was pushing 50% would be totally unthinkable.

    There simply has to be some accomodation between the Tories and UKIP before next May. A formal pact is obviously a non-starter, but there has to be some bargain struck and an agreement on where UKIP will stand and where it won't / where each party will focus its resources and efforts. It would appear that this is what UKIP voters want anyway.

    I don't think that you can bunch CON & UKIP together. That is oldthink.

    70% of voters in this latest round of polling did not vote CON at GE10.

    Its only Tories you hear suggesting these pacts, we cant help who chats us up!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited November 2014
    Scott_P said:

    @LabourList: Unite endorse Neil Findlay for leader of Scottish Labour http://labli.st/1AhFuQ6

    Union endorsement has worked so well for Labour nationally....why not in the London branch office Scotland too?
  • Alistair said:



    Does anybody know where I can read a decent, non-partisan account of what went wrong here?

    I believe the basic story is that after the EU hands the money over to the countries the countries don't keep good enough track of it to satisfy the EU's audit that it has gone to the right target.
    Thanks, Alistair.

    That already puts it in some sort of perspective. The problem is at the Country level. It's still not great, but makes a bit more sense.

    Btw, I am a colossal cynic when it comes to audit certificates, having witnessed so much skulduggery in connection with them over many years. But I'll save that for another day.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited November 2014
    Socrates said:

    Amazingly, Labour's immigration spokesman saying sensible things.

    "This report shows that immigration since 2001 has contributed to the public finances as well as to the economy.

    "However, the impact of different kinds of immigration varies and the system needs to be fair - so we need stronger border controls to tackle illegal immigration and stronger action against employers who use immigration to undercut local wages and jobs, but we should welcome international university students who bring in billions."


    Not going far enough at all, and I'm sure it won't influence Ed Miliband's "more mass immigration policy", but there seems to be the first sign of accepting different types of immigration vary in their impact. The logical next step is to start limiting the immigrants who are low-skilled, low-income or have a low likelihood of integrating easily. And that includes a fair chunk of family migration.

    Other parts of that report show immigration to be a net drag.

    "... the overall cost of migration to the UK [1995-2011]: estimated to be between £114bn as a best case scenario, and £159bn at worst, as the bill for migrants accessing public services such as the NHS, education, infrastructure and benefits was higher than the amount paid by the group in taxes."

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/11/05/Immigration-has-Cost-Britain-150-Billion-EU-Sponsored-Report-Finds

    http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/395
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited November 2014

    TGOHF said:

    Kippers shrieking about EU audits, whilst Farage and chums trouser unaccounted allowances, for 'banks of computers' and family on the payroll.

    You've got to laugh.

    That is the system set up by the EU. Blame them. At least Farage and UKIP are trying to get the UK out of it entirely. You seem content to let it carry on as is.
    Absolutely no hypocrisy there...
    You would have them refuse to accept the legitimate allowances and do their work for free? Its a thought I suppose and if we could get all MEPs to work for free then maybe I might be a little more sympathetic to them.
    UKIP MEPS have an appalling record for expense fraud in the EU . ITs only right people are sceptical of claims from that party
    If by appalling record you mean two cases - that of Tom Wise and Ashley Mote
    2 out of 13? How does that compare with other UK parties?
    Maybe the other parties don't highlight UKIP's record because of this:

    "MPs to escape expenses investigations after paperwork destroyed by Parliament"
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/11204405/MPs-to-escape-expenses-investigations-after-paperwork-destroyed-by-Parliament.html

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.


    http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2011/2/24/1298572836940/Tony-Blair-Embarks-On-Tou-007.jpg

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited November 2014

    TGOHF said:

    Kippers shrieking about EU audits, whilst Farage and chums trouser unaccounted allowances, for 'banks of computers' and family on the payroll.

    You've got to laugh.

    That is the system set up by the EU. Blame them. At least Farage and UKIP are trying to get the UK out of it entirely. You seem content to let it carry on as is.
    Absolutely no hypocrisy there...
    You would have them refuse to accept the legitimate allowances and do their work for free? Its a thought I suppose and if we could get all MEPs to work for free then maybe I might be a little more sympathetic to them.
    UKIP MEPS have an appalling record for expense fraud in the EU . ITs only right people are sceptical of claims from that party
    If by appalling record you mean two cases - that of Tom Wise and Ashley Mote
    2 out of 13? How does that compare with other UK parties?
    Maybe the other parties don't highlight UKIP's record because of this:

    "MPs to escape expenses investigations after paperwork destroyed by Parliament"
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/11204405/MPs-to-escape-expenses-investigations-after-paperwork-destroyed-by-Parliament.html

    Whataboutery!

    What if UKIP had had MPs?

  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179

    It would be travesty enough to see Ed Miliband, the bloke that NOBODY wants to be PM (probably not even himself), get a majority or a workable minority on 32-35% of the vote. To do so when the combined Tory/UKIP vote was pushing 50% would be totally unthinkable.

    There simply has to be some accomodation between the Tories and UKIP before next May. A formal pact is obviously a non-starter, but there has to be some bargain struck and an agreement on where UKIP will stand and where it won't / where each party will focus its resources and efforts. It would appear that this is what UKIP voters want anyway.

    A UKIP pact of any kind with the Tories before the election may well push up the Labour vote share and depress the UKIP one. If UKIP is serious about winning in Labour heartlands it needs to avoid the Tories at all costs until after polling day.

    Exactly. There can't be a formal pact, as I say. The Tories though need to come to some arrangement with Farage so he gets the tanks off their lawns where it is going to put a Labour MP into Westminster instead of a Tory one. The Tories would reciprocate in, say, Clacton, Rochester, Thanet S etc. No need to announce it. Just do it. I expect many Eurosceptic/BOO Tory MPs are doing such anyway.

    As things stand, and as the Ashcroft polling confirms, the Tories are going to be massacred next May, even if their overall vote share nationally matches or edges out Labour. I don't think the SNP surge will rob Labour of as many Scottish seats as some think, but the UKIP surge combined with the LD lefties returning to Labour will cost the Tories massively.

    I can honestly see Cameron having fewer MPs than Major got in 97, at worst it may even be a wipeout other than a rump of ultra-safe seats. And yet voters will have preferred Cameron to be PM than Miliband.
  • I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg
  • It would be travesty enough to see Ed Miliband, the bloke that NOBODY wants to be PM (probably not even himself), get a majority or a workable minority on 32-35% of the vote. To do so when the combined Tory/UKIP vote was pushing 50% would be totally unthinkable.

    There simply has to be some accomodation between the Tories and UKIP before next May. A formal pact is obviously a non-starter, but there has to be some bargain struck and an agreement on where UKIP will stand and where it won't / where each party will focus its resources and efforts. It would appear that this is what UKIP voters want anyway.

    Ukip's goal is to destroy the Conservative Party, not prop it up
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    JohnO said:

    Socrates said:

    This is a devastating account that was white-washed by the UK media:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/04/libyan-troops-go-wild-in-england.html

    You mean like this in today's Daily Mail

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2820269/Government-ends-training-Libyan-soldiers-UK-five-face-court-today-charged-sex-attacks-men-women.html

    Or a lengthy item on yesterday's Channel 4 News.

    You're losing it, mate.
    JohnO, will we be seeing you at Dirty Dicks on the 21st?

    My choice of footwear will be dependent on your attendance.
    I shall be feckless and legless thanks to Reckless (and pre DD cocktails with the pbTory Lodge)
  • TGOHF said:

    Kippers shrieking about EU audits, whilst Farage and chums trouser unaccounted allowances, for 'banks of computers' and family on the payroll.

    You've got to laugh.

    That is the system set up by the EU. Blame them. At least Farage and UKIP are trying to get the UK out of it entirely. You seem content to let it carry on as is.
    Absolutely no hypocrisy there...
    You would have them refuse to accept the legitimate allowances and do their work for free? Its a thought I suppose and if we could get all MEPs to work for free then maybe I might be a little more sympathetic to them.
    UKIP MEPS have an appalling record for expense fraud in the EU . ITs only right people are sceptical of claims from that party
    If by appalling record you mean two cases - that of Tom Wise and Ashley Mote
    2 out of 13? How does that compare with other UK parties?
    Maybe the other parties don't highlight UKIP's record because of this:

    "MPs to escape expenses investigations after paperwork destroyed by Parliament"
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/11204405/MPs-to-escape-expenses-investigations-after-paperwork-destroyed-by-Parliament.html

    Whataboutery!

    What if UKIP had had MPs?

    Still elected representatives, just different parliaments!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    Good to see someone offering a measured opinion of Gadaffi, as opposed to being photographed cuddling him one minute, and thinking he's satan's spawn as soon as the Americans decide they want rid.

  • JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Socrates said:

    This is a devastating account that was white-washed by the UK media:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/04/libyan-troops-go-wild-in-england.html

    You mean like this in today's Daily Mail

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2820269/Government-ends-training-Libyan-soldiers-UK-five-face-court-today-charged-sex-attacks-men-women.html

    Or a lengthy item on yesterday's Channel 4 News.

    You're losing it, mate.
    JohnO, will we be seeing you at Dirty Dicks on the 21st?

    My choice of footwear will be dependent on your attendance.
    I shall be feckless and legless thanks to Reckless (and pre DD cocktails with the pbTory Lodge)
    Yay!
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Increased immigration by boat from Libya is just one of the many catastrophic consequences of attacking Libya, alarming how many posters are supporting that disastrous intervention.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821

    It would be travesty enough to see Ed Miliband, the bloke that NOBODY wants to be PM (probably not even himself), get a majority or a workable minority on 32-35% of the vote. To do so when the combined Tory/UKIP vote was pushing 50% would be totally unthinkable.

    There simply has to be some accomodation between the Tories and UKIP before next May. A formal pact is obviously a non-starter, but there has to be some bargain struck and an agreement on where UKIP will stand and where it won't / where each party will focus its resources and efforts. It would appear that this is what UKIP voters want anyway.

    A UKIP pact of any kind with the Tories before the election may well push up the Labour vote share and depress the UKIP one. If UKIP is serious about winning in Labour heartlands it needs to avoid the Tories at all costs until after polling day.

    And avoid them after the election too.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited November 2014
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Socrates said:

    This is a devastating account that was white-washed by the UK media:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/04/libyan-troops-go-wild-in-england.html

    You mean like this in today's Daily Mail

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2820269/Government-ends-training-Libyan-soldiers-UK-five-face-court-today-charged-sex-attacks-men-women.html

    Or a lengthy item on yesterday's Channel 4 News.

    You're losing it, mate.
    JohnO, will we be seeing you at Dirty Dicks on the 21st?

    My choice of footwear will be dependent on your attendance.
    I shall be feckless and legless thanks to Reckless (and pre DD cocktails with the pbTory Lodge)
    For a man of your esteemed position (The King of Esher) such behaviour might not be wise. I'll have my camera with me for potential blackmail opportunities.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited November 2014
    http://labourlist.org/2014/11/neil-findlay-gets-unison-endorsement-for-scottish-labour-leader/

    UNISON endorsement too.

    And ASLEF.

    So UNITE, UNISON, ASLEF - how many other unions are there.

    Could Findlay gain the backing of all the unions ?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Would you prefer to live in Libya now, or Libya under Gadaffi? Answers on a postcard please.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2014

    Alistair said:



    Does anybody know where I can read a decent, non-partisan account of what went wrong here?

    I believe the basic story is that after the EU hands the money over to the countries the countries don't keep good enough track of it to satisfy the EU's audit that it has gone to the right target.
    Thanks, Alistair.

    That already puts it in some sort of perspective. The problem is at the Country level. It's still not great, but makes a bit more sense.

    Btw, I am a colossal cynic when it comes to audit certificates, having witnessed so much skulduggery in connection with them over many years. But I'll save that for another day.
    This would suggest witholding future payments to those countries until they sort out their corruption and record-keeping would be a good way forward.

    Pissing more money up the wall without understanding where the first (and second, and third, ...) lot has gone seems peculiarly lax given the 6 nanoseconds it took to start threatening the UK with punitive fines for non-payment of their latest demand.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466
    edited November 2014

    It would be travesty enough to see Ed Miliband, the bloke that NOBODY wants to be PM (probably not even himself), get a majority or a workable minority on 32-35% of the vote. To do so when the combined Tory/UKIP vote was pushing 50% would be totally unthinkable.

    There simply has to be some accomodation between the Tories and UKIP before next May. A formal pact is obviously a non-starter, but there has to be some bargain struck and an agreement on where UKIP will stand and where it won't / where each party will focus its resources and efforts. It would appear that this is what UKIP voters want anyway.

    A UKIP pact of any kind with the Tories before the election may well push up the Labour vote share and depress the UKIP one. If UKIP is serious about winning in Labour heartlands it needs to avoid the Tories at all costs until after polling day.

    Absolutely, Southam, there is no mileage in any kind of pre-election agreement from Farage's viewpoint.

    After the Election is a different matter. Goodness knows what the Election Map will look like then, but the public would generally expect the politicos to make of it the best they can and do whatever deals they think necessary.

    That's pretty much what happened last time.
  • Of course, as Minister-Emperor, I would absorb the EU into the Commonwealth* and thereby absorb the Strasbourg Parliament into the Imperial Senate :)

    *EU as a whole has English as an Official Language!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    At what stage does Boyak bow out ?
  • From the outside its funny looking in on a old bunch of tories wondering how to save a sinking ship ! Some so dim and thinking Farage would want to prop up a tories Govt , You clearly don't know the Man like me
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    Good to see someone offering a measured opinion of Gadaffi, as opposed to being photographed cuddling him one minute, and thinking he's satan's spawn as soon as the Americans decide they want rid.

    Apart from arming the IRA and blowing up a passenger plane over the Uk its difficult to see what was wrong with the chap..
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    So you would say the current situation in Libya is better for us or worse after our clearly well thought through and considered intervention there?
  • Interesting that when the second seat specific question was asked the CON share increased by an average 1.5% across the 12 seats polled.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Socrates said:

    This is a devastating account that was white-washed by the UK media:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/04/libyan-troops-go-wild-in-england.html

    You mean like this in today's Daily Mail

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2820269/Government-ends-training-Libyan-soldiers-UK-five-face-court-today-charged-sex-attacks-men-women.html

    Or a lengthy item on yesterday's Channel 4 News.

    You're losing it, mate.
    JohnO, will we be seeing you at Dirty Dicks on the 21st?

    My choice of footwear will be dependent on your attendance.
    I shall be feckless and legless thanks to Reckless (and pre DD cocktails with the pbTory Lodge)
    For a man of your esteemed position (The King of Esher) such behaviour might not be wise. I'll have my camera with me for potential blackmail opportunities.

    Photo away, little man - I am the Lutfur Rahman of Surrey. Nothing can touch me. Ooh, er?
  • I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg

    For those of us not as au fait with the iconography of Doctor Who - might you offer an interpretation of their choices (I get Wilson as Hartnell, but Brown as Baker ?)

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2014
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
    Sigh. We'd prefer it if countries took responsibility for the waters adjacent to them, just as the UK does.

    Still, UKIP appears to prefer a system where a dictator terrorises the whole nation, and an effective police state prevents migrants from setting out at all. Sort of like East Germany with more sand and sunshine.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,960
    edited November 2014
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    Good to see someone offering a measured opinion of Gadaffi, as opposed to being photographed cuddling him one minute, and thinking he's satan's spawn as soon as the Americans decide they want rid.

    Apart from arming the IRA and blowing up a passenger plane over the Uk its difficult to see what was wrong with the chap..
    He also featured in my fourth favourite ever musical mash up

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBY-0n4esNY
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
    Are they drowning in the English Channel?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    It would be travesty enough to see Ed Miliband, the bloke that NOBODY wants to be PM (probably not even himself), get a majority or a workable minority on 32-35% of the vote. To do so when the combined Tory/UKIP vote was pushing 50% would be totally unthinkable.

    There simply has to be some accomodation between the Tories and UKIP before next May. A formal pact is obviously a non-starter, but there has to be some bargain struck and an agreement on where UKIP will stand and where it won't / where each party will focus its resources and efforts. It would appear that this is what UKIP voters want anyway.

    A UKIP pact of any kind with the Tories before the election may well push up the Labour vote share and depress the UKIP one. If UKIP is serious about winning in Labour heartlands it needs to avoid the Tories at all costs until after polling day.

    Absolutely, Southam, there is no mileage in any kind of pre-election agreement from Farage's viewpoint.

    After the Election is a different matter. Goodness knows what the Election Map will look like then, but the public would generally expect the politicos to make of it the best they can and do whatever deals they think necessary.

    That's pretty much what happened last time.
    Someone I know who attended a UKIP PPC assessment was told off for referring to "lefties"
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
    Are they drowning in the English Channel?
    Oh! have we left the EU?!!!

    Hooray!!
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2014
    isam said:

    It would be travesty enough to see Ed Miliband, the bloke that NOBODY wants to be PM (probably not even himself), get a majority or a workable minority on 32-35% of the vote. To do so when the combined Tory/UKIP vote was pushing 50% would be totally unthinkable.

    There simply has to be some accomodation between the Tories and UKIP before next May. A formal pact is obviously a non-starter, but there has to be some bargain struck and an agreement on where UKIP will stand and where it won't / where each party will focus its resources and efforts. It would appear that this is what UKIP voters want anyway.

    A UKIP pact of any kind with the Tories before the election may well push up the Labour vote share and depress the UKIP one. If UKIP is serious about winning in Labour heartlands it needs to avoid the Tories at all costs until after polling day.

    Absolutely, Southam, there is no mileage in any kind of pre-election agreement from Farage's viewpoint.

    After the Election is a different matter. Goodness knows what the Election Map will look like then, but the public would generally expect the politicos to make of it the best they can and do whatever deals they think necessary.

    That's pretty much what happened last time.
    Someone I know who attended a UKIP PPC assessment was told off for referring to "lefties"
    Properly referred to as "shifty workshy commies" under UKIP regulation 234 :)
  • I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg

    For those of us not as au fait with the iconography of Doctor Who - might you offer an interpretation of their choices (I get Wilson as Hartnell, but Brown as Baker ?)

    Well Kinnock as Christopher Eccleston's Doctor seems just wrong as well

    I think the New Statesman got their Bakers mixed up, Gordon Brown as Colin Baker would be more apt.

    But thinking of the wider Doctor Who mythology, you could make inarguable cases that Gordon Brown is more Davros, or in terms of unpopularity, The Rani.

    Blair might be better off as John Hurt's The War Doctor, given the millions dead because of him *innocent face*
  • TGOHF said:

    Kippers shrieking about EU audits, whilst Farage and chums trouser unaccounted allowances, for 'banks of computers' and family on the payroll.

    You've got to laugh.

    That is the system set up by the EU. Blame them. At least Farage and UKIP are trying to get the UK out of it entirely. You seem content to let it carry on as is.
    Absolutely no hypocrisy there...
    You would have them refuse to accept the legitimate allowances and do their work for free? Its a thought I suppose and if we could get all MEPs to work for free then maybe I might be a little more sympathetic to them.
    UKIP MEPS have an appalling record for expense fraud in the EU . ITs only right people are sceptical of claims from that party
    If by appalling record you mean two cases - that of Tom Wise and Ashley Mote
    2 out of 13? How does that compare with other UK parties?
    Maybe the other parties don't highlight UKIP's record because of this:

    "MPs to escape expenses investigations after paperwork destroyed by Parliament"
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/11204405/MPs-to-escape-expenses-investigations-after-paperwork-destroyed-by-Parliament.html

    Whataboutery!

    What if UKIP had had MPs?

    Still elected representatives, just different parliaments!
    So compare them within the same parliaments - how does the percentage of imprisoned UKIP MEPs compare with other UK party MEPs?
  • JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Socrates said:

    This is a devastating account that was white-washed by the UK media:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/04/libyan-troops-go-wild-in-england.html

    You mean like this in today's Daily Mail

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2820269/Government-ends-training-Libyan-soldiers-UK-five-face-court-today-charged-sex-attacks-men-women.html

    Or a lengthy item on yesterday's Channel 4 News.

    You're losing it, mate.
    JohnO, will we be seeing you at Dirty Dicks on the 21st?

    My choice of footwear will be dependent on your attendance.
    I shall be feckless and legless thanks to Reckless (and pre DD cocktails with the pbTory Lodge)
    For a man of your esteemed position (The King of Esher) such behaviour might not be wise. I'll have my camera with me for potential blackmail opportunities.

    Photo away, little man - I am the Lutfur Rahman of Surrey. Nothing can touch me. Ooh, er?
    I'll make sure you end up on the right train.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    edited November 2014
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    Good to see someone offering a measured opinion of Gadaffi, as opposed to being photographed cuddling him one minute, and thinking he's satan's spawn as soon as the Americans decide they want rid.

    Apart from arming the IRA and blowing up a passenger plane over the Uk its difficult to see what was wrong with the chap..
    Well it was definitely difficult for Blair, Sarkozy, Van Rumpoy, and any of the other hypocritical world elite who were brown nosing him one minute and agreed to unseat him the next. Personally I'd prefer national leadership that neither cosies up to dictators, nor suddenly decides to depose them in favour of blood drenched anarchy -call me zany.
  • It would be travesty enough to see Ed Miliband, the bloke that NOBODY wants to be PM (probably not even himself), get a majority or a workable minority on 32-35% of the vote. To do so when the combined Tory/UKIP vote was pushing 50% would be totally unthinkable.

    There simply has to be some accomodation between the Tories and UKIP before next May. A formal pact is obviously a non-starter, but there has to be some bargain struck and an agreement on where UKIP will stand and where it won't / where each party will focus its resources and efforts. It would appear that this is what UKIP voters want anyway.

    A UKIP pact of any kind with the Tories before the election may well push up the Labour vote share and depress the UKIP one. If UKIP is serious about winning in Labour heartlands it needs to avoid the Tories at all costs until after polling day.

    Exactly. There can't be a formal pact, as I say. The Tories though need to come to some arrangement with Farage so he gets the tanks off their lawns where it is going to put a Labour MP into Westminster instead of a Tory one. The Tories would reciprocate in, say, Clacton, Rochester, Thanet S etc. No need to announce it. Just do it. I expect many Eurosceptic/BOO Tory MPs are doing such anyway.

    As things stand, and as the Ashcroft polling confirms, the Tories are going to be massacred next May, even if their overall vote share nationally matches or edges out Labour. I don't think the SNP surge will rob Labour of as many Scottish seats as some think, but the UKIP surge combined with the LD lefties returning to Labour will cost the Tories massively.

    I can honestly see Cameron having fewer MPs than Major got in 97, at worst it may even be a wipeout other than a rump of ultra-safe seats. And yet voters will have preferred Cameron to be PM than Miliband.
    Is such a paradox that unusual? In 79 Jim was preferred to Maggie as PM I believe. Revealed preference - if people really want David to be PM they simply have to vote for him
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    isam said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
    Are they drowning in the English Channel?
    Oh! have we left the EU?!!!

    Hooray!!
    Uh oh - back to Kipper retraining for you - the last thing the great Nigel wants is that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Interesting that when the second seat specific question was asked the CON share increased by an average 1.5% across the 12 seats polled.

    Not in Cannock Chase though !
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,960
    edited November 2014
    FYI - The Staggers on their front page, have a Blue Dalek, I'm assuming representing the Tories.

    It should be remembered that in Victory of the Daleks, the Blue Dalek was The (Master) Strategist Dalek

    http://www.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/dalek/types/25-blue-strategist-dalek/
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
    Are they drowning in the English Channel?
    Oh! have we left the EU?!!!

    Hooray!!
    Uh oh - back to Kipper retraining for you - the last thing the great Nigel wants is that.
    No more Allowances.
  • I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg

    For those of us not as au fait with the iconography of Doctor Who - might you offer an interpretation of their choices (I get Wilson as Hartnell, but Brown as Baker ?)

    Well Kinnock as Christopher Eccleston's Doctor seems just wrong as well
    I thought that might be what was intended, but surely Sylvester McCoy would have been less inappropriate.....and Ed as Matt Smith (?) - not (Labour Luvvie) Tennant? Young chap not up to the job?

    Its all a bit of a mess
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
    Sigh. We'd prefer it if countries took responsibility for the waters adjacent to them, just as the UK does.

    Still, UKIP appears to prefer a system where a dictator terrorises the whole nation, and an effective police state prevents migrants from setting out at all. Sort of like East Germany with more sand and sunshine.
    Another one who needs to answer the question whether they would rather live in Libya under Gadaffi, or currently.
  • I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg

    For those of us not as au fait with the iconography of Doctor Who - might you offer an interpretation of their choices (I get Wilson as Hartnell, but Brown as Baker ?)

    Well Kinnock as Christopher Eccleston's Doctor seems just wrong as well
    I thought that might be what was intended, but surely Sylvester McCoy would have been less inappropriate.....and Ed as Matt Smith (?) - not (Labour Luvvie) Tennant? Young chap not up to the job?

    Its all a bit of a mess
    David Tennant was very popular (and all time favourite Doc in recent polls with Tom Baker's Doctor, who is Gordon Brown in this montage)

    Popular isn't a word you can associate with either Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband.
  • Anorak said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
    Sigh. We'd prefer it if countries took responsibility for the waters adjacent to them, just as the UK does.

    Still, UKIP appears to prefer a system where a dictator terrorises the whole nation, and an effective police state prevents migrants from setting out at all. Sort of like East Germany with more sand and sunshine.
    Another one who needs to answer the question whether they would rather live in Libya under Gadaffi, or currently.
    Surely those can't be the only choices.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    Interesting that when the second seat specific question was asked the CON share increased by an average 1.5% across the 12 seats polled.

    Evidence of pro Tory tactical voting, I would expect that to happen, no way will the Labour vote be as efficient next time.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    I'm no fan of illegal immigration from North Africa, but it would be frankly immoral to have allowed a massacre in Benghazi on our doorstep.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    edited November 2014

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Socrates said:

    This is a devastating account that was white-washed by the UK media:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/04/libyan-troops-go-wild-in-england.html

    You mean like this in today's Daily Mail

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2820269/Government-ends-training-Libyan-soldiers-UK-five-face-court-today-charged-sex-attacks-men-women.html

    Or a lengthy item on yesterday's Channel 4 News.

    You're losing it, mate.
    JohnO, will we be seeing you at Dirty Dicks on the 21st?

    My choice of footwear will be dependent on your attendance.
    I shall be feckless and legless thanks to Reckless (and pre DD cocktails with the pbTory Lodge)
    For a man of your esteemed position (The King of Esher) such behaviour might not be wise. I'll have my camera with me for potential blackmail opportunities.

    Photo away, little man - I am the Lutfur Rahman of Surrey. Nothing can touch me. Ooh, er?
    I'll make sure you end up on the right train.
    I'm sorry but that's Neil's statutory responsibility and cannot be delegated.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
    Sigh. We'd prefer it if countries took responsibility for the waters adjacent to them, just as the UK does.

    Still, UKIP appears to prefer a system where a dictator terrorises the whole nation, and an effective police state prevents migrants from setting out at all. Sort of like East Germany with more sand and sunshine.
    Another one who needs to answer the question whether they would rather live in Libya under Gadaffi, or currently.
    Surely those can't be the only choices.
    Well one of them is not a choice anymore!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
    Are they drowning in the English Channel?
    Oh! have we left the EU?!!!

    Hooray!!
    Uh oh - back to Kipper retraining for you - the last thing the great Nigel wants is that.
    No more Allowances.
    Annie Lennox?
  • JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Socrates said:

    This is a devastating account that was white-washed by the UK media:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/04/libyan-troops-go-wild-in-england.html

    You mean like this in today's Daily Mail

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2820269/Government-ends-training-Libyan-soldiers-UK-five-face-court-today-charged-sex-attacks-men-women.html

    Or a lengthy item on yesterday's Channel 4 News.

    You're losing it, mate.
    JohnO, will we be seeing you at Dirty Dicks on the 21st?

    My choice of footwear will be dependent on your attendance.
    I shall be feckless and legless thanks to Reckless (and pre DD cocktails with the pbTory Lodge)
    For a man of your esteemed position (The King of Esher) such behaviour might not be wise. I'll have my camera with me for potential blackmail opportunities.

    Photo away, little man - I am the Lutfur Rahman of Surrey. Nothing can touch me. Ooh, er?
    Interesting admission John and dangerous. I'll forward this on to Mr. Pickles.

  • I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg

    For those of us not as au fait with the iconography of Doctor Who - might you offer an interpretation of their choices (I get Wilson as Hartnell, but Brown as Baker ?)

    Well Kinnock as Christopher Eccleston's Doctor seems just wrong as well
    I thought that might be what was intended, but surely Sylvester McCoy would have been less inappropriate.....and Ed as Matt Smith (?) - not (Labour Luvvie) Tennant? Young chap not up to the job?

    Its all a bit of a mess
    David Tennant was very popular (and all time favourite Doc in recent polls with Tom Baker's Doctor, who is Gordon Brown in this montage)

    Popular isn't a word you can associate with either Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband.
    It might be more fun casting Labour leaders as Doctor Who villains:

    Blair - Dalek - exterminate the Tories thrice....(favourite quote from 'War with the Cybermen' 'This is not war! This is Pest Control!'

    Brown - Cyberman - no heart......pest.....

    .....I'll leave the rest up to you......
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670


    I can honestly see Cameron having fewer MPs than Major got in 97, at worst it may even be a wipeout other than a rump of ultra-safe seats. And yet voters will have preferred Cameron to be PM than Miliband.

    If only they had some kind of, I don't know, alternative vote with which they could indicate this.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    edited November 2014

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Socrates said:

    This is a devastating account that was white-washed by the UK media:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/04/libyan-troops-go-wild-in-england.html

    You mean like this in today's Daily Mail

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2820269/Government-ends-training-Libyan-soldiers-UK-five-face-court-today-charged-sex-attacks-men-women.html

    Or a lengthy item on yesterday's Channel 4 News.

    You're losing it, mate.
    JohnO, will we be seeing you at Dirty Dicks on the 21st?

    My choice of footwear will be dependent on your attendance.
    I shall be feckless and legless thanks to Reckless (and pre DD cocktails with the pbTory Lodge)
    For a man of your esteemed position (The King of Esher) such behaviour might not be wise. I'll have my camera with me for potential blackmail opportunities.

    Photo away, little man - I am the Lutfur Rahman of Surrey. Nothing can touch me. Ooh, er?
    Interesting admission John and dangerous. I'll forward this on to Mr. Pickles.

    Deleted.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Socrates said:

    I'm no fan of illegal immigration from North Africa, but it would be frankly immoral to have allowed a massacre in Benghazi on our doorstep.

    Perpetual war it is then, you have already show your willingness to support the 'right' massacres when it suits you so I don't think you can claim a moral justification.

    Foreign policy should be dictated by the pursuit of the national interest within acceptable moral boundaries.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg

    For those of us not as au fait with the iconography of Doctor Who - might you offer an interpretation of their choices (I get Wilson as Hartnell, but Brown as Baker ?)

    Well Kinnock as Christopher Eccleston's Doctor seems just wrong as well
    I thought that might be what was intended, but surely Sylvester McCoy would have been less inappropriate.....and Ed as Matt Smith (?) - not (Labour Luvvie) Tennant? Young chap not up to the job?

    Its all a bit of a mess
    David Tennant was very popular (and all time favourite Doc in recent polls with Tom Baker's Doctor, who is Gordon Brown in this montage)

    Popular isn't a word you can associate with either Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband.
    Brown should have been Peter Davidson -a poor replacement for the best doctor of all time Tom Baker.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
    Sigh. We'd prefer it if countries took responsibility for the waters adjacent to them, just as the UK does.

    Still, UKIP appears to prefer a system where a dictator terrorises the whole nation, and an effective police state prevents migrants from setting out at all. Sort of like East Germany with more sand and sunshine.
    Another one who needs to answer the question whether they would rather live in Libya under Gadaffi, or currently.
    I hear Amin ran a tight ship in Uganda too. Perhaps you could pose a similar question to John Sentamu?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    Good to see someone offering a measured opinion of Gadaffi, as opposed to being photographed cuddling him one minute, and thinking he's satan's spawn as soon as the Americans decide they want rid.

    Apart from arming the IRA and blowing up a passenger plane over the Uk its difficult to see what was wrong with the chap..
    By far the biggest scandal of Al-Mehgrahi's release and completely glossed over by the press was his quid-pro-quo dropping of his appeal which would have shattered the ludicrously flimsy case against him.

    The key eye witness was beyond unreliable and the key forensic evidence (timer board) was flagrantly tampered with.
  • TGOHF said:

    Kippers shrieking about EU audits, whilst Farage and chums trouser unaccounted allowances, for 'banks of computers' and family on the payroll.

    You've got to laugh.

    That is the system set up by the EU. Blame them. At least Farage and UKIP are trying to get the UK out of it entirely. You seem content to let it carry on as is.
    Absolutely no hypocrisy there...
    You would have them refuse to accept the legitimate allowances and do their work for free? Its a thought I suppose and if we could get all MEPs to work for free then maybe I might be a little more sympathetic to them.
    UKIP MEPS have an appalling record for expense fraud in the EU . ITs only right people are sceptical of claims from that party
    If by appalling record you mean two cases - that of Tom Wise and Ashley Mote
    2 out of 13? How does that compare with other UK parties?
    Maybe the other parties don't highlight UKIP's record because of this:

    "MPs to escape expenses investigations after paperwork destroyed by Parliament"
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/11204405/MPs-to-escape-expenses-investigations-after-paperwork-destroyed-by-Parliament.html

    Whataboutery!

    What if UKIP had had MPs?

    Still elected representatives, just different parliaments!
    So compare them within the same parliaments - how does the percentage of imprisoned UKIP MEPs compare with other UK party MEPs?
    Strasbourg isn't the only parliament that UK voters elect...
  • JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Socrates said:

    This is a devastating account that was white-washed by the UK media:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/04/libyan-troops-go-wild-in-england.html

    You mean like this in today's Daily Mail

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2820269/Government-ends-training-Libyan-soldiers-UK-five-face-court-today-charged-sex-attacks-men-women.html

    Or a lengthy item on yesterday's Channel 4 News.

    You're losing it, mate.
    JohnO, will we be seeing you at Dirty Dicks on the 21st?

    My choice of footwear will be dependent on your attendance.
    I shall be feckless and legless thanks to Reckless (and pre DD cocktails with the pbTory Lodge)
    For a man of your esteemed position (The King of Esher) such behaviour might not be wise. I'll have my camera with me for potential blackmail opportunities.

    Photo away, little man - I am the Lutfur Rahman of Surrey. Nothing can touch me. Ooh, er?
    I'll make sure you end up on the right train.
    I'm sorry but that's Neil's statutory responsibility and cannot be delegated.
    Boo, well I'll still keep an eye on you

    PS - I think I've found ColinW on twitter

    https://twitter.com/sxybio
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    Good to see someone offering a measured opinion of Gadaffi, as opposed to being photographed cuddling him one minute, and thinking he's satan's spawn as soon as the Americans decide they want rid.

    Apart from arming the IRA and blowing up a passenger plane over the Uk its difficult to see what was wrong with the chap..
    By far the biggest scandal of Al-Mehgrahi's release
    What bigger than the SNP releasing a convicted mass murdering terrorist ? I think not.
  • Speedy said:

    A few things from the marginals poll:

    1. Lord Ashcroft is approaching the upper boundary of Labour gains, but not there yet, with 38 Labour gains from the Tories so far.

    2. There is a UKIP stronghold in the midlands, Cannock Chase is the second midlands seat with UKIP close to the winning post and is neighboring Walsall North, so that suggests a strong local UKIP presence.

    3. Aidan Burley's chances of being the next defector to UKIP suddenly become severe.

    Aidan Burley is stepping down anyway. If he felt like doing the Tories a favour [in recognition of the damage he did them] then a defection to UKIP would be a thoughtful parting gift.
  • I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg

    For those of us not as au fait with the iconography of Doctor Who - might you offer an interpretation of their choices (I get Wilson as Hartnell, but Brown as Baker ?)

    Well Kinnock as Christopher Eccleston's Doctor seems just wrong as well
    I thought that might be what was intended, but surely Sylvester McCoy would have been less inappropriate.....and Ed as Matt Smith (?) - not (Labour Luvvie) Tennant? Young chap not up to the job?

    Its all a bit of a mess
    David Tennant was very popular (and all time favourite Doc in recent polls with Tom Baker's Doctor, who is Gordon Brown in this montage)

    Popular isn't a word you can associate with either Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband.
    It might be more fun casting Labour leaders as Doctor Who villains:

    Blair - Dalek - exterminate the Tories thrice....(favourite quote from 'War with the Cybermen' 'This is not war! This is Pest Control!'

    Brown - Cyberman - no heart......pest.....

    .....I'll leave the rest up to you......
    You're lucky I'm not guest editing PB this week, or we'd have a very Doctor Who themed thread.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,960
    edited November 2014
    TGOHF said:

    I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg

    For those of us not as au fait with the iconography of Doctor Who - might you offer an interpretation of their choices (I get Wilson as Hartnell, but Brown as Baker ?)

    Well Kinnock as Christopher Eccleston's Doctor seems just wrong as well
    I thought that might be what was intended, but surely Sylvester McCoy would have been less inappropriate.....and Ed as Matt Smith (?) - not (Labour Luvvie) Tennant? Young chap not up to the job?

    Its all a bit of a mess
    David Tennant was very popular (and all time favourite Doc in recent polls with Tom Baker's Doctor, who is Gordon Brown in this montage)

    Popular isn't a word you can associate with either Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband.
    Brown should have been Peter Davidson -a poor replacement for the best doctor of all time Tom Baker.

    I like Peter Davidson, he was my first Doctor.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    It's almost a 'Colonel, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability...' moment.
    Quite - I hope Putin doesnt feel too spurned - he thought he had the Kipper poster dictator gig sewn up..
    'A real gent that Muammar. Loved his mum, kept all the troublesome brown people in order, and off the Italian beaches...'
    Hardly a good line to take as the Conservatives prefer to leave "the brown people" to drown
    Sigh. We'd prefer it if countries took responsibility for the waters adjacent to them, just as the UK does.

    Still, UKIP appears to prefer a system where a dictator terrorises the whole nation, and an effective police state prevents migrants from setting out at all. Sort of like East Germany with more sand and sunshine.
    Another one who needs to answer the question whether they would rather live in Libya under Gadaffi, or currently.
    I hear Amin ran a tight ship in Uganda too. Perhaps you could pose a similar question to John Sentamu?
    The quality of Tesco's Zimbabwean blueberries has never been higher than under Uncle Bob - top bloke.
  • From the Daily Mail article on Windlestone Hall, a wonderfully twisted-up sentence :

    Designed by architect Ignatius Bonomi and built for Robert Thompson Eden, the property was the 1897 birthplace of the former Tory prime minister Sir Anthony Eden


  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    It would be travesty enough to see Ed Miliband, the bloke that NOBODY wants to be PM (probably not even himself), get a majority or a workable minority on 32-35% of the vote. To do so when the combined Tory/UKIP vote was pushing 50% would be totally unthinkable.

    There simply has to be some accomodation between the Tories and UKIP before next May. A formal pact is obviously a non-starter, but there has to be some bargain struck and an agreement on where UKIP will stand and where it won't / where each party will focus its resources and efforts. It would appear that this is what UKIP voters want anyway.

    A UKIP pact of any kind with the Tories before the election may well push up the Labour vote share and depress the UKIP one. If UKIP is serious about winning in Labour heartlands it needs to avoid the Tories at all costs until after polling day.

    Good afternoon.

    Time and time again Farage has said and repeated that there will be no formal pact with the Cons.

    1. The membership of UKIP won't allow it and don't want it. You must remember that nearly 20K new members have joined the party in the last 20 months and would oppose any such move. Also thousands of supporters would be against it.

    2. The clarion call and slogan for the GE is: "Vote UKIP, Get UKIP"

    3. An expanded election strategy has been adopted by the UKIP NEC.
    (a) To concentrate on the 30 most advantageous constituencies.
    (b) To expand that to the next 70 constituencies on the list if possible.
    (c) So depending on finance, activists and organisation the target is now 100 seats.

    4. UKIP will be fighting the Lab/Lib/Con everywhere they can. NO PACT!
  • TGOHF said:

    Kippers shrieking about EU audits, whilst Farage and chums trouser unaccounted allowances, for 'banks of computers' and family on the payroll.

    You've got to laugh.

    That is the system set up by the EU. Blame them. At least Farage and UKIP are trying to get the UK out of it entirely. You seem content to let it carry on as is.
    Absolutely no hypocrisy there...
    You would have them refuse to accept the legitimate allowances and do their work for free? Its a thought I suppose and if we could get all MEPs to work for free then maybe I might be a little more sympathetic to them.
    UKIP MEPS have an appalling record for expense fraud in the EU . ITs only right people are sceptical of claims from that party
    If by appalling record you mean two cases - that of Tom Wise and Ashley Mote
    2 out of 13? How does that compare with other UK parties?
    Maybe the other parties don't highlight UKIP's record because of this:

    "MPs to escape expenses investigations after paperwork destroyed by Parliament"
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/11204405/MPs-to-escape-expenses-investigations-after-paperwork-destroyed-by-Parliament.html

    Whataboutery!

    What if UKIP had had MPs?

    Still elected representatives, just different parliaments!
    So compare them within the same parliaments - how does the percentage of imprisoned UKIP MEPs compare with other UK party MEPs?
    Strasbourg isn't the only parliament that UK voters elect...
    I'll take 2/13 as 'more' then.......
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466
    edited November 2014

    Interesting that when the second seat specific question was asked the CON share increased by an average 1.5% across the 12 seats polled.

    Mike, why do you think that is? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

    Also, do you think UKIP's strength in Cannock is just a one-off or indicative of a much greater potential than has generally been imagined?

    By my reckoning, Cannock Chase cannot have been higher than about 40 in UKIP's target list. Unless there are specific local factors to explain their progress there (and I don't think the little Nazi hoo-hah really does) LA's poll may be an indication that the value still lies in backing UKIP seats, generally and individually.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    Good to see someone offering a measured opinion of Gadaffi, as opposed to being photographed cuddling him one minute, and thinking he's satan's spawn as soon as the Americans decide they want rid.

    Apart from arming the IRA and blowing up a passenger plane over the Uk its difficult to see what was wrong with the chap..
    By far the biggest scandal of Al-Mehgrahi's release and completely glossed over by the press was his quid-pro-quo dropping of his appeal which would have shattered the ludicrously flimsy case against him.

    The key eye witness was beyond unreliable and the key forensic evidence (timer board) was flagrantly tampered with.
    Iran always seemed more likely as retaliation for the shooting down of the passenger plane by the US Navy. Iran being another great example of the blowback one gets from interfering in other people's countries, namely overthrowing Mossadegh.

    Still not sure why we should be dictating who should and shouldn't rule over different countries. Why leave Mugabe in power and not Assad?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    isam said:

    Bah, could only get 8/1 with Paddy Power on Cannock Chase

    It helps to get good prices if you think for yourself before polling is announced rather than try to catch a bookie out who hasn't seen it yet
    Miiiiaoooow

    Isam vs TSE - this time its personal.
  • I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg

    For those of us not as au fait with the iconography of Doctor Who - might you offer an interpretation of their choices (I get Wilson as Hartnell, but Brown as Baker ?)

    Well Kinnock as Christopher Eccleston's Doctor seems just wrong as well
    I thought that might be what was intended, but surely Sylvester McCoy would have been less inappropriate.....and Ed as Matt Smith (?) - not (Labour Luvvie) Tennant? Young chap not up to the job?

    Its all a bit of a mess
    David Tennant was very popular (and all time favourite Doc in recent polls with Tom Baker's Doctor, who is Gordon Brown in this montage)

    Popular isn't a word you can associate with either Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband.
    It might be more fun casting Labour leaders as Doctor Who villains:

    Blair - Dalek - exterminate the Tories thrice....(favourite quote from 'War with the Cybermen' 'This is not war! This is Pest Control!'

    Brown - Cyberman - no heart......pest.....

    .....I'll leave the rest up to you......
    You're lucky I'm not guest editing PB this week, or we'd have a very Doctor Who themed thread.
    Witch Doctor Who? :)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    Good to see someone offering a measured opinion of Gadaffi, as opposed to being photographed cuddling him one minute, and thinking he's satan's spawn as soon as the Americans decide they want rid.

    Apart from arming the IRA and blowing up a passenger plane over the Uk its difficult to see what was wrong with the chap..
    By far the biggest scandal of Al-Mehgrahi's release
    What bigger than the SNP releasing a convicted mass murdering terrorist ? I think not.
    Well, the contention of a great many people is that he isn't a mass murderer and the real culprits are still at large.

    Dropping his appeal has prevented this line of inquiry being officially investigated. His co-accused - who was apparently vital to Al-Megrahi's actions - was acquitted on the basis he was in Sweden at the time of the alleged actions.
  • TGOHF said:

    Kippers shrieking about EU audits, whilst Farage and chums trouser unaccounted allowances, for 'banks of computers' and family on the payroll.

    You've got to laugh.

    That is the system set up by the EU. Blame them. At least Farage and UKIP are trying to get the UK out of it entirely. You seem content to let it carry on as is.
    Absolutely no hypocrisy there...
    You would have them refuse to accept the legitimate allowances and do their work for free? Its a thought I suppose and if we could get all MEPs to work for free then maybe I might be a little more sympathetic to them.
    UKIP MEPS have an appalling record for expense fraud in the EU . ITs only right people are sceptical of claims from that party
    If by appalling record you mean two cases - that of Tom Wise and Ashley Mote
    2 out of 13? How does that compare with other UK parties?
    Maybe the other parties don't highlight UKIP's record because of this:

    "MPs to escape expenses investigations after paperwork destroyed by Parliament"
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/11204405/MPs-to-escape-expenses-investigations-after-paperwork-destroyed-by-Parliament.html

    Whataboutery!

    What if UKIP had had MPs?

    Still elected representatives, just different parliaments!
    So compare them within the same parliaments - how does the percentage of imprisoned UKIP MEPs compare with other UK party MEPs?
    Strasbourg isn't the only parliament that UK voters elect...
    I'll take 2/13 as 'more' then.......
    Bah, excellent native PB Tory wit!
    [whack!]
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited November 2014

    TGOHF said:

    I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg

    For those of us not as au fait with the iconography of Doctor Who - might you offer an interpretation of their choices (I get Wilson as Hartnell, but Brown as Baker ?)

    Well Kinnock as Christopher Eccleston's Doctor seems just wrong as well
    I thought that might be what was intended, but surely Sylvester McCoy would have been less inappropriate.....and Ed as Matt Smith (?) - not (Labour Luvvie) Tennant? Young chap not up to the job?

    Its all a bit of a mess
    David Tennant was very popular (and all time favourite Doc in recent polls with Tom Baker's Doctor, who is Gordon Brown in this montage)

    Popular isn't a word you can associate with either Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband.
    Brown should have been Peter Davidson -a poor replacement for the best doctor of all time Tom Baker.

    I like Peter Davidson, he was my first Doctor.
    Total lightweight after Baker - who used cricket tactics (Horns of the Nimon) rather than wearing the jumpers..
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Speedy said:

    A few things from the marginals poll:

    1. Lord Ashcroft is approaching the upper boundary of Labour gains, but not there yet, with 38 Labour gains from the Tories so far.

    2. There is a UKIP stronghold in the midlands, Cannock Chase is the second midlands seat with UKIP close to the winning post and is neighboring Walsall North, so that suggests a strong local UKIP presence.

    3. Aidan Burley's chances of being the next defector to UKIP suddenly become severe.

    Aidan Burley is stepping down anyway. If he felt like doing the Tories a favour [in recognition of the damage he did them] then a defection to UKIP would be a thoughtful parting gift.
    "In Cannock Chase, UKIP became the official opposition on the district council after winning enough seats to put them level with the Tories. The stalemate was resolved with the shock decision of Rawnsley councillor Jodie Jones, fiancee of Conservative MP Aidan Burley, to resign the party whip and stand as an independent."

    http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2014/05/27/ukip-puts-focus-on-west-midlands-after-elections-success/
  • False Flag

    "Why leave Mugabe in power and not Assad?"

    Blair asked the same question in his autobiography.

    It obviously irked him too, but the simple truth is that you can get an international consensus for the removal of some and not others.

    Mugabe was a hero in the eyes of many black Africans for fighting and shaking off white rulers. It made him untouchable.

    It's realpolitik. Not much you can do about it.
  • Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    Good to see someone offering a measured opinion of Gadaffi, as opposed to being photographed cuddling him one minute, and thinking he's satan's spawn as soon as the Americans decide they want rid.

    Apart from arming the IRA and blowing up a passenger plane over the Uk its difficult to see what was wrong with the chap..
    By far the biggest scandal of Al-Mehgrahi's release
    What bigger than the SNP releasing a convicted mass murdering terrorist ? I think not.
    Dropping his appeal has prevented this line of inquiry being officially investigated.
    Wasn't that a condition of his release?

    Killed several birds (SNP & UK govt) birds with one stone......
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Must be Kipper "the Tripoli buses ran on time under Muammar.." theme of theday

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-mark-reckless-colonel-gaddafi-good-halting-immigration-1473253

    "Tory defector Reckless said the deposed leader had stopped boats from making the hazardous voyage across the Mediterranean sea to Italy.

    He said: "Whatever people say about Gaddafi, one thing is he didn't allow those boats to come across."

    Good to see someone offering a measured opinion of Gadaffi, as opposed to being photographed cuddling him one minute, and thinking he's satan's spawn as soon as the Americans decide they want rid.

    Apart from arming the IRA and blowing up a passenger plane over the Uk its difficult to see what was wrong with the chap..
    By far the biggest scandal of Al-Mehgrahi's release
    What bigger than the SNP releasing a convicted mass murdering terrorist ? I think not.
    Well, the contention of a great many people is that he isn't a mass murderer and the real culprits are still at large.

    Dropping his appeal has prevented this line of inquiry being officially investigated. His co-accused - who was apparently vital to Al-Megrahi's actions - was acquitted on the basis he was in Sweden at the time of the alleged actions.
    As you say - usually better to have a trial to determine such matters than pretending he was on death's door.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    MikeK said:

    It would be travesty enough to see Ed Miliband, the bloke that NOBODY wants to be PM (probably not even himself), get a majority or a workable minority on 32-35% of the vote. To do so when the combined Tory/UKIP vote was pushing 50% would be totally unthinkable.

    There simply has to be some accomodation between the Tories and UKIP before next May. A formal pact is obviously a non-starter, but there has to be some bargain struck and an agreement on where UKIP will stand and where it won't / where each party will focus its resources and efforts. It would appear that this is what UKIP voters want anyway.

    A UKIP pact of any kind with the Tories before the election may well push up the Labour vote share and depress the UKIP one. If UKIP is serious about winning in Labour heartlands it needs to avoid the Tories at all costs until after polling day.

    Good afternoon.

    Time and time again Farage has said and repeated that there will be no formal pact with the Cons.

    1. The membership of UKIP won't allow it and don't want it. You must remember that nearly 20K new members have joined the party in the last 20 months and would oppose any such move. Also thousands of supporters would be against it.

    2. The clarion call and slogan for the GE is: "Vote UKIP, Get UKIP"

    3. An expanded election strategy has been adopted by the UKIP NEC.
    (a) To concentrate on the 30 most advantageous constituencies.
    (b) To expand that to the next 70 constituencies on the list if possible.
    (c) So depending on finance, activists and organisation the target is now 100 seats.

    4. UKIP will be fighting the Lab/Lib/Con everywhere they can. NO PACT!
    And ensuring Britain's most Europhile Government in history is elected into power by such a majority it might govern for a generation. We might even join the Euro.

    All of which proves Cameron was absolutely bang on the money when he called them nutters, loonies and fruitcakes.

    He was, and remains, spot on.
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited November 2014
    Sunil said:

    Of course, as Minister-Emperor, I would absorb the EU into the Commonwealth* and thereby absorb the Strasbourg Parliament into the Imperial Senate :)

    *EU as a whole has English as an Official Language!

    Because previous Latin, Germanic, Hunnish, French, Burgundian, Spanish, Swedish, French, Hapsburg or German attempts were so successful? Was SoWo your "Western-European" history teacher (or have you heard of Bizmarck and 'Mittle-Europa' and realised what a [MODERATED] {MODERATED] eejit the 'walnut' is)...?

    EtA:
    Strasbourg was once Polish (Duchy-of-Alsace; due to inter-Euro stupidity). Brandenburg-Prussia [Mightier-than-England] posts come to mind....
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Up to May 2010 the Lib/Lab vote was about 50% and Tories about 40%, the rest 10%. Now the Lib/Lab vote in opinion polls is about 40% and right wing is 50% (Tory/UKIP). But does this mean anything or is protest vote moving around. Libs will do far better than opinion polls simply because they will get teh protest vote in some areas. Look at their share in local elections. It is far better than opinion polls. I expect them to end up at about 17%. Labour won't beat 35% but their ground troops in marginals is very good. The election will be down to the Tory vote and it needs to hit 40% if they are to win most seats let alone majority.
  • Interesting that when the second seat specific question was asked the CON share increased by an average 1.5% across the 12 seats polled.

    Mike, why do you think that is? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

    Also, do you think UKIP's strength in Cannock is just a one-off or indicative of a much greater potential than has generally been imagined?

    By my reckoning, Cannock Chase cannot have been higher than about 40 in UKIP's target list. Unless there are specific local factors to explain their progress there (and I don't think the little Nazi hoo-hah really does) LA's poll may be an indication that the value still lies in backing UKIP seats, generally and individually.
    Incumbency bonus?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,173
    Loughborough must be an outlier - I need my Portillo moment in my former home patch!
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,000
    The SNP was formed in 1934. Douglas Young, the person you are referring was its fourth leader, 1942-45, and did not join the party until 1938.

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    » show previous quotes
    The origins of the Whigs (later the Liberal party) lay in its opposition to absolute monarchy, and in particular its opposition to Catholic Monarchs.

    The origins of the Tories lie in opposing the Whig's exclusion bill, aimed at disinheriting James Duke of York.

    The Labour Party was formed as a movement to represent the newly enfranchised urban proletariat -a rejection of the centrist Liberal Party that aimed to represent this constituency.

    The Scottish National Party was founded in opposition to the UK -its leader at the time was jailed for campaigning against conscription during World War II.

    The SDP was founded to create a new centrist political force in the UK. We all know how that went.

    Every successful political movement starts because it is against something. Otherwise what point would their be in a new political movement? It's not rocket science.


  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    MikeK said:

    It would be travesty enough to see Ed Miliband, the bloke that NOBODY wants to be PM (probably not even himself), get a majority or a workable minority on 32-35% of the vote. To do so when the combined Tory/UKIP vote was pushing 50% would be totally unthinkable.

    There simply has to be some accomodation between the Tories and UKIP before next May. A formal pact is obviously a non-starter, but there has to be some bargain struck and an agreement on where UKIP will stand and where it won't / where each party will focus its resources and efforts. It would appear that this is what UKIP voters want anyway.

    A UKIP pact of any kind with the Tories before the election may well push up the Labour vote share and depress the UKIP one. If UKIP is serious about winning in Labour heartlands it needs to avoid the Tories at all costs until after polling day.

    Good afternoon.

    Time and time again Farage has said and repeated that there will be no formal pact with the Cons.

    1. The membership of UKIP won't allow it and don't want it. You must remember that nearly 20K new members have joined the party in the last 20 months and would oppose any such move. Also thousands of supporters would be against it.

    2. The clarion call and slogan for the GE is: "Vote UKIP, Get UKIP"

    3. An expanded election strategy has been adopted by the UKIP NEC.
    (a) To concentrate on the 30 most advantageous constituencies.
    (b) To expand that to the next 70 constituencies on the list if possible.
    (c) So depending on finance, activists and organisation the target is now 100 seats.

    4. UKIP will be fighting the Lab/Lib/Con everywhere they can. NO PACT!
    And ensuring Britain's most Europhile Government in history is elected into power by such a majority it might govern for a generation. We might even join the Euro.

    All of which proves Cameron was absolutely bang on the money when he called them nutters, loonies and fruitcakes.

    He was, and remains, spot on.
    "And ensuring Britain's most Europhile Government in history is elected into power by such a majority it might govern for a generation"

    How's the LSD diet going Bob?
  • TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    I think I may have geekgasmed

    The Doctor Who themed front of this week's New Statesman

    Running out of time - Is it too late for Ed to regenerate Labour

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1rfM3BIgAEL7NX.jpg

    For those of us not as au fait with the iconography of Doctor Who - might you offer an interpretation of their choices (I get Wilson as Hartnell, but Brown as Baker ?)

    Well Kinnock as Christopher Eccleston's Doctor seems just wrong as well
    I thought that might be what was intended, but surely Sylvester McCoy would have been less inappropriate.....and Ed as Matt Smith (?) - not (Labour Luvvie) Tennant? Young chap not up to the job?

    Its all a bit of a mess
    David Tennant was very popular (and all time favourite Doc in recent polls with Tom Baker's Doctor, who is Gordon Brown in this montage)

    Popular isn't a word you can associate with either Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband.
    Brown should have been Peter Davidson -a poor replacement for the best doctor of all time Tom Baker.

    I like Peter Davidson, he was my first Doctor.
    Total lightweight after Baker - who used cricket tactics (Horns of the Nimon) rather than wearing the jumpers..
    That was John Nathan-Turner's fault.

    Rubbish producer.

    He's the Ed Milband of Doctor Who producers
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    sarissa said:

    The SNP was formed in 1934. Douglas Young, the person you are referring was its fourth leader, 1942-45, and did not join the party until 1938.

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    » show previous quotes
    The origins of the Whigs (later the Liberal party) lay in its opposition to absolute monarchy, and in particular its opposition to Catholic Monarchs.

    The origins of the Tories lie in opposing the Whig's exclusion bill, aimed at disinheriting James Duke of York.

    The Labour Party was formed as a movement to represent the newly enfranchised urban proletariat -a rejection of the centrist Liberal Party that aimed to represent this constituency.

    The Scottish National Party was founded in opposition to the UK -its leader at the time was jailed for campaigning against conscription during World War II.

    The SDP was founded to create a new centrist political force in the UK. We all know how that went.

    Every successful political movement starts because it is against something. Otherwise what point would their be in a new political movement? It's not rocket science.


    I don't believe it alters the thrust of what I was saying, but thank you for the correction.

This discussion has been closed.