The UKIP odds in Stocksbridge & Penistone are worth looking at.
I don't think I would fancy being the right honourable er..member for that constituency.
I once read an article by a local chap from the second town complaining about the problems of spelling out the town name when making orders over the telephone - almost always had the phone put down on him after 5 letters.
Does anyone think the threats of Cameron having a leadership challenge mounted if tories lose Rochester are serious or just hot air?
I think it could happen. It might well be really stupid, but apart from a brief period of quiescence earlier this year, the Tory rebels have not proven themselves to be the types who do not cause trouble even when it appears there is no upside to doing so, and with Cameron categorically unable to control his party and the probability of more jumping ship - there are plenty who clearly want to, inasmuch as many do not appear to mind losing to UKIP - could those lot possibly contain themselves, even if they should? Unlikely, I'd say. The only thing that might prevent the Tories from being the second largest party would, funnily enough, be a Labour wipeout in Scotland, and with the result in essence out of Tory hands, they are free to try anything.
Does anyone think the threats of Cameron having a leadership challenge mounted if tories lose Rochester are serious or just hot air?
UKIP or Labour mischief making.
There is no chance whatsoever of it. There is more chance of Burnley winning the Premier League for the next ten seasons in a row than Cameron being forced out this side of May 8th.
But seriously, you've missed SirNorfolkPassmore (Lab 10.33%) and Ninoinoz (Lab 12.51%).
I have SirNorfolkPassmore [9th] and I judged your entry on the second round score (UKIP by 4.1%) as it was on the basis of the final result that people were making their entries.
First, apologies. Second, good job it was clear cut, otherwise the rules were a bit vague.
Clearly shows Labour continuing to do well in urban areas but losing ground in wwc industrial towns.
There's complicating factors such as no LibDem candidate and UKIP becoming established as the main anti-Labour party but the trends are clear.
The UKIP odds in Stocksbridge & Penistone are worth looking at.
Presumably the "core cities" urban areas have large populations of ethnic minorities. That might be covering similar losses among the white working class in places like Sheffield. This is the reason Labour don't want to do anything about mass immigration. The white working class dislike Labour's contempt for traditional English culture, so Labour would prefer to dilute their democratic power by bringing in more people from the world's trouble spots. It "makes the Right's arguments out of date", in the words of Andrew Neather.
There's also the concentration of public sector middle classes in large urban areas.
Together with some rich private sector sector professionals in finance, law, 'consulting' etc.
Its safe to say that none of these groups have a high opinion of UKIP or of the wwc generally.
The increasing economic inequality I spoke of earlier is most evident in cities and the bigger the city the more evident it is.
Cities have lots of jobs for 'professionals' and lots of low wage / low skilled jobs in the service sector but increasingly few of the C1C2 jobs.
Added to this is the increasing cost of city living, property costs above all which means that the people living there are either those at the top of the economic scale or those at the bottom (either immigrants living in multi-occupancy or locals surviving on welfare).
Consequently the C1C2s move out to 'middling' areas where people doing an 'average' job on 'average' earnings can still afford an 'average' house and have an 'average' life.
Certainly in South Yorkshire there are now, judging by the accents I hear, significant numbers of ex-Londoners or ex-Home Counties people whereas a couple of decades ago such people would have been very rare.
I think 4th is the best I have done in any competition and even then I fell foul of over estimating UKIP. Another lesson learned.
For a self-confessed guess it puts the efforts of the rest of us in their proper context - not good at all!
You are right. The true message of this competition is to bet on politics with the head and not the heart. Especially when there is actual money on it.
Politically the consequence of these changing demographics is that large urban areas will become more left wing and middling towns and old industrial areas more right wing.
But we're now in an era where the political class has become more urban dominated than previously.
Inevitably they are influenced by the environment they experience ie increasingly left wing cities.
This I would suggest is especially dangerous for the Conservative party. If the Conservative leadership increasingly chase after leftish urban votes while their voters are increasingly hostile to the 'urban mentality' then a political vacuum will be created.
Does anyone think the threats of Cameron having a leadership challenge mounted if tories lose Rochester are serious or just hot air?
I would say its hot air. Who would be the alternative that the rebels could agree on?
For the Tories to get rid of Cameron six months before the election would be very 'brave'. Who would replace him, Boris isn't an MP, Theresa May, Osborne? It could decimate the Tories, UKIP might get more than a handful, most likely Labour would do well out of it.
Does anyone think the threats of Cameron having a leadership challenge mounted if tories lose Rochester are serious or just hot air?
Don't know, but I do know Eurosceptics under pressure from the UKIP tide in the East will postpone defecting if there is a challenge, but defect at the most inopportune time for Cameron if there isn't.
If Reckless wins easily on the 20th, this would show how easy it is and there's an MEP berth as a safety net.
Does anyone think the threats of Cameron having a leadership challenge mounted if tories lose Rochester are serious or just hot air?
I would say its hot air. Who would be the alternative that the rebels could agree on?
For the Tories to get rid of Cameron six months before the election would be very 'brave'. Who would replace him, Boris isn't an MP, Theresa May, Osborne? It could decimate the Tories, UKIP might get more than a handful, most likely Labour would do well out of it.
Nah!! Whatever happens the Tories are now stuck with Cammo to the bitter end. Same as Labour are stuck with weirdo RedED. Leaders the opposition pray for.
Politically the consequence of these changing demographics is that large urban areas will become more left wing and middling towns and old industrial areas more right wing.
But we're now in an era where the political class has become more urban dominated than previously.
Inevitably they are influenced by the environment they experience ie increasingly left wing cities.
This I would suggest is especially dangerous for the Conservative party. If the Conservative leadership increasingly chase after leftish urban votes while their voters are increasingly hostile to the 'urban mentality' then a political vacuum will be created.
Into this UKIP steps.
I was at a political meeting where it was stated that 50% of Labour members were in London.
The UKIP odds in Stocksbridge & Penistone are worth looking at.
I don't think I would fancy being the right honourable er..member for that constituency.
Guido used to use a photo of the local MP standing next to a fete stall at a constituency event. It had a banner with the name of the town on it neatly obscured by the MPs torso ... from the letter T. A sub-editors dream.
The UKIP odds in Stocksbridge & Penistone are worth looking at.
I don't think I would fancy being the right honourable er..member for that constituency.
Guido used to use a photo of the local MP standing next to a fete stall at a constituency event. It had a banner with the name of the town on it neatly obscured by the MPs torso ... from the letter T. A sub-editors dream.
It would not surprise me that Labour's press team start Ed's latest relaunch there, under a similar banner.
This is interesting; but if you examine the individual data, it doesn't add up.
In what way does it not add up?
Count the supposed totals of population in the individual areas.
The missing 0.193% that I found in the area of Eden is only 100 people, which appears to be the smallest unit of the population that they are using (if you look at some of the other percentages, they are multiples of 0.193%) - so it's just a rounding error.
Does anyone think the threats of Cameron having a leadership challenge mounted if tories lose Rochester are serious or just hot air?
Don't know, but I do know Eurosceptics under pressure from the UKIP tide in the East will postpone defecting if there is a challenge, but defect at the most inopportune time for Cameron if there isn't.
If Reckless wins easily on the 20th, this would show how easy it is and there's an MEP berth as a safety net.
Except they won't get the same traction because we're pretty much over for by elections now this parliament. It's conceivable, just, that one could be squeezed in during February but I think it's highly unlikely before the prorogation of parliament in March.
Does anyone think the threats of Cameron having a leadership challenge mounted if tories lose Rochester are serious or just hot air?
Don't know, but I do know Eurosceptics under pressure from the UKIP tide in the East will postpone defecting if there is a challenge, but defect at the most inopportune time for Cameron if there isn't.
If Reckless wins easily on the 20th, this would show how easy it is and there's an MEP berth as a safety net.
Except they won't get the same traction because we're pretty much over for by elections now this parliament. It's conceivable, just, that one could be squeezed in during February but I think it's highly unlikely before the prorogation of parliament in March.
One of the reasons that Rochester has been held several weeks after Reckless resigned. Any Tory planning to go and force a by-election will have to do so within days of Rochester result. Otherwise as audreyanne says there is no time or indeed need for a by-election.
Politically the consequence of these changing demographics is that large urban areas will become more left wing and middling towns and old industrial areas more right wing.
But we're now in an era where the political class has become more urban dominated than previously.
Inevitably they are influenced by the environment they experience ie increasingly left wing cities.
This I would suggest is especially dangerous for the Conservative party. If the Conservative leadership increasingly chase after leftish urban votes while their voters are increasingly hostile to the 'urban mentality' then a political vacuum will be created.
Into this UKIP steps.
I was at a political meeting where it was stated that 50% of Labour members were in London.
Anyone know if this is true?
I've read that as well.
Now add in how many are in Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Edinburgh etc.
There will also be a wide variation within London with proportionally far more in Camden, Islington and Lambeth than there is Havering, Bexley and Sutton.
UKIPRomseySotonNorth @UKIPRomsey 2h2 hours ago According to this Conservative MP, people thinking of voting #UKIP in #RochesterAndStrood are 'moany farts' Embedded image permalink
UKIPRomseySotonNorth @UKIPRomsey 2h2 hours ago According to this Conservative MP, people thinking of voting #UKIP in #RochesterAndStrood are 'moany farts' Embedded image permalink
Politically the consequence of these changing demographics is that large urban areas will become more left wing and middling towns and old industrial areas more right wing.
But we're now in an era where the political class has become more urban dominated than previously.
Inevitably they are influenced by the environment they experience ie increasingly left wing cities.
This I would suggest is especially dangerous for the Conservative party. If the Conservative leadership increasingly chase after leftish urban votes while their voters are increasingly hostile to the 'urban mentality' then a political vacuum will be created.
Into this UKIP steps.
I was at a political meeting where it was stated that 50% of Labour members were in London.
Anyone know if this is true?
And what of that 50% are in Notting Hill, Primrose Hill, Hampstead and Dulwich?
UKIPRomseySotonNorth @UKIPRomsey 2h2 hours ago According to this Conservative MP, people thinking of voting #UKIP in #RochesterAndStrood are 'moany farts' Embedded image permalink
Is that Caroline Nokes? (I've seen the follow up post now)
The UKIP odds in Stocksbridge & Penistone are worth looking at.
I don't think I would fancy being the right honourable er..member for that constituency.
I once read an article by a local chap from the second town complaining about the problems of spelling out the town name when making orders over the telephone - almost always had the phone put down on him after 5 letters.
I can remember when I was a teenager my parents when looking at houses for a house move in South London found a really nice house that basically met all their criteria. Unfortunately it was in a street called "Penistone Road". No offer was made.
I've often thought that the name can't do anything for house price values there...
The winner certainly isn't me. I forecast a narrow ukip win, based on a gut feeling that none-of-the-above feeling would translate into support for ukip. Maybe it would have in more normal by election. Didn't anticipate that turnout would be quite so low.
The sixty-odd votes that enabled Labour to win on the first round were critical. Had it gone to a second, Labour's winning margin would have been a good deal smaller though still comfortable; I'd guess something like 12-13%.
I presume this is why there was no recount, despite Labour were only marginally over the 50%.
There should have been a recount. Labour were just 19 votes over 50% apparently.
But UKIP would have needed that result to be wrong AND every second preference vote to win. It wasn't worth the recount.
If the result is that close to triggering a second round, a recount should be automatic regardless of how likely or unlikely a particular party is to win or lose. Party considerations shouldn't come into it.
"Once the LRO has counted all of the first preferences, or votes in an election with only two candidates, and adjudicated any doubtful ballot papers, the provisional local totals should be shared informally with the candidates, agents and designated counting agents present. It is at this stage that recounts can be requested by candidates, (sub) agents and the designated counting agents. Requests for recounts must be considered, but may be refused if, in the LRO’s opinion, the request is unreasonable."
My understanding was that the returning officer can ask for a recount even if none of the candidates or agents want to have one. Maybe that's for parliamentary elections only. JohnLoony said the same thing yesterday.
I've no doubt the returning officer can, but if the candidates and agents are satisfied why do so?
The first recount in Croydon Central in 2005 was done on the initiative of the Returning Officer, without waiting to refer to the candidates, because the margin of victory was less than 100 and there was a discrepancy of 20 between the counted total and the verified total.
I'm going to Troll so apologies in advance but I want this off my chest.
It is not unprecedented through European political history and current European politics for a new party to become popular by combining Nationalism, blaming most things going wrong in the country as a result of actions taken by organisations or peoples overseas and.or as a result of particular minorities within the host country itself.
That is perhaps why UKIP is the most disliked party whilst also having a very significant and motivated group of supporters too. It works and has always worked but it's certainly nothing new in the history of politics.
Now feel free to assault the wet pro-european tory stance I favour!!
Demonizing your political opponents is nothing new either.
Indeed but what there is wrong in what I've said?
UKIP are nazis?
Don't be silly. They're not nazis.
English Poujadists, really, nothing more complicated than that.
Politically the consequence of these changing demographics is that large urban areas will become more left wing and middling towns and old industrial areas more right wing.
But we're now in an era where the political class has become more urban dominated than previously.
Inevitably they are influenced by the environment they experience ie increasingly left wing cities.
This I would suggest is especially dangerous for the Conservative party. If the Conservative leadership increasingly chase after leftish urban votes while their voters are increasingly hostile to the 'urban mentality' then a political vacuum will be created.
Into this UKIP steps.
I was at a political meeting where it was stated that 50% of Labour members were in London.
Anyone know if this is true?
And what of that 50% are in Notting Hill, Primrose Hill, Hampstead and Dulwich?
I don't about the London bias referred to here, but House of Commons library has a paper on party membership with lots of stats (but not geographic location) for membership. The three main parties are more male, professional/managerial and retired than the electorate in general.
Does anyone think the threats of Cameron having a leadership challenge mounted if tories lose Rochester are serious or just hot air?
Don't know, but I do know Eurosceptics under pressure from the UKIP tide in the East will postpone defecting if there is a challenge, but defect at the most inopportune time for Cameron if there isn't.
If Reckless wins easily on the 20th, this would show how easy it is and there's an MEP berth as a safety net.
Except they won't get the same traction because we're pretty much over for by elections now this parliament. It's conceivable, just, that one could be squeezed in during February but I think it's highly unlikely before the prorogation of parliament in March.
One of the reasons that Rochester has been held several weeks after Reckless resigned. Any Tory planning to go and force a by-election will have to do so within days of Rochester result. Otherwise as audreyanne says there is no time or indeed need for a by-election.
Isn't another one something to do with November being the 46 letters to the 1922 committee time of year?
All I meant was that the presiding officer presumably decided that there was no point in a recount since (by any reasonable measure) it would never change the outcome of the winner.
No point! No POINT!
But, but what about all those people wanting to know how the second preferences split...
All I meant was that the presiding officer presumably decided that there was no point in a recount since (by any reasonable measure) it would never change the outcome of the winner.
No point! No POINT!
But, but what about all those people wanting to know how the second preferences split...
FEED THE BEAST!!
Damn.
You've scuppered my scheme to find out the extent of anti-UKIP Conservative voting intent.
This is interesting; but if you examine the individual data, it doesn't add up.
In what way does it not add up?
Count the supposed totals of population in the individual areas.
Which bit am I supposed to be looking at / adding up? Am I supposed to add up all the population totals of all the local authority areas to check whether it adds up to the population of England?
A little unfair to take the comment "moany farts" out of context.
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
Why? It makes it no less abusive? it doesn't even have the saving grace of being witty as you point out its not very good (actually its piss poor). But there again you Tories always were the Blue Meanies........
I'm going to Troll so apologies in advance but I want this off my chest.
It is not unprecedented through European political history and current European politics for a new party to become popular by combining Nationalism, blaming most things going wrong in the country as a result of actions taken by organisations or peoples overseas and.or as a result of particular minorities within the host country itself.
That is perhaps why UKIP is the most disliked party whilst also having a very significant and motivated group of supporters too. It works and has always worked but it's certainly nothing new in the history of politics.
Now feel free to assault the wet pro-european tory stance I favour!!
Demonizing your political opponents is nothing new either.
Indeed but what there is wrong in what I've said?
UKIP are nazis?
Don't be silly. They're not nazis.
English Poujadists, really, nothing more complicated than that.
The idea that UKIP are anti-urban or anti-industrialization is nonsense. Some of their biggest support comes from old mining and manufacturing towns. Neither are they anti-parliamentarism, given they want to defend parliament from the encroachment of the authoritarian EU.
The poujadist accusation is just another thinly disguised effort to link them to things like anti-Semitism. It's pathetic.
All I meant was that the presiding officer presumably decided that there was no point in a recount since (by any reasonable measure) it would never change the outcome of the winner.
No point! No POINT!
But, but what about all those people wanting to know how the second preferences split...
FEED THE BEAST!!
I'd have loved to have known, it would have given an even better assessment of the correct betting odds for South Yorkshire seats next year (English Dem 2nd prefs in particular). But hey ho we can't have everything.
A little unfair to take the comment "moany farts" out of context.
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
Why? It makes it no less abusive? it doesn't even have the saving grace of being witty as you point out its not very good (actually its piss poor). But there again you Tories always were the Blue Meanies........
A little unfair to take the comment "moany farts" out of context.
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
Why? It makes it no less abusive? it doesn't even have the saving grace of being witty as you point out its not very good (actually its piss poor). But there again you Tories always were the Blue Meanies........
I would put it in the category of not worth getting worked up about.
You guys really do seem to have thin skins.
It's the real oddity of kippers. They detest political correctness. Yet when anyone describes them in terms they regard as disparaging, they squeal like stuck pigs.
I'm going to Troll so apologies in advance but I want this off my chest.
It is not unprecedented through European political history and current European politics for a new party to become popular by combining Nationalism, blaming most things going wrong in the country as a result of actions taken by organisations or peoples overseas and.or as a result of particular minorities within the host country itself.
That is perhaps why UKIP is the most disliked party whilst also having a very significant and motivated group of supporters too. It works and has always worked but it's certainly nothing new in the history of politics.
Now feel free to assault the wet pro-european tory stance I favour!!
Demonizing your political opponents is nothing new either.
Indeed but what there is wrong in what I've said?
UKIP are nazis?
Don't be silly. They're not nazis.
English Poujadists, really, nothing more complicated than that.
The idea that UKIP are anti-urban or anti-industrialization is nonsense. Some of their biggest support comes from old mining and manufacturing towns. Neither are they anti-parliamentarism, given they want to defend parliament from the encroachment of the authoritarian EU.
The poujadist accusation is just another thinly disguised effort to link them to things like anti-Semitism. It's pathetic.
Poujadism was really a revolt against rapid change. Urbanisation and industrialisation was the themes that it took in France at the time.
There was no attempt to link it to anti-Semitism - you made that one up.
You may not believe it, but I respect UKIP voters while despairing of their leadership (who I regard as self-regarding chancers who would disastrous for the country).
A little unfair to take the comment "moany farts" out of context.
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
Why? It makes it no less abusive? it doesn't even have the saving grace of being witty as you point out its not very good (actually its piss poor). But there again you Tories always were the Blue Meanies........
A little unfair to take the comment "moany farts" out of context.
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
Why? It makes it no less abusive? it doesn't even have the saving grace of being witty as you point out its not very good (actually its piss poor). But there again you Tories always were the Blue Meanies........
I would put it in the category of not worth getting worked up about.
You guys really do seem to have thin skins.
Well, it's comments like that which make me yearn to vote UKIP. It's not that I identify with them, it's simply the mixture of condescension and entitlement that the quip conveys.
If I automatically vote Conservative (as I have done all my life), then I'm no better than the donkeys who vote for whoever has the red rosette.
In terms of the level of insult, I agree, you'd have to be very thin skinned to get worked up about it.
Even now, as Labour sups in the last-chance saloon ahead of Nationalist potential Armageddon, the trade union Unite is setting about the lunatic task of blocking Mr Murphy – the party’s only hope – for the crime of being electable.
Yougov finds Scotland would now vote Yes 52-48%. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/01/scotland-vote-independence-poll-yougov Albeit from the same polling company who told us Yes were going to win a few weeks before No won by 10%! The Nat surge at the moment is putting the pressure on for devomax, but once the bill for devomax is introduced in January with the second reading by the general election the surge will begin to recede
Ed Miliband has been given a ticking-off by police after being snapped giving change to a woman sitting on a Manchester street - because begging is against the law.
Isn't that one of the anagrams that the Fawlty Towers hotel sign got changed to ?
It is still one of the delightful mysteries of seventies telly - how, in an age when you couldn't say anything remotely rude, let alone sweary, they got away with Flowery Twats.....
I'm going to Troll so apologies in advance but I want this off my chest.
It is not unprecedented through European political history and current European politics for a new party to become popular by combining Nationalism, blaming most things going wrong in the country as a result of actions taken by organisations or peoples overseas and.or as a result of particular minorities within the host country itself.
That is perhaps why UKIP is the most disliked party whilst also having a very significant and motivated group of supporters too. It works and has always worked but it's certainly nothing new in the history of politics.
Now feel free to assault the wet pro-european tory stance I favour!!
Demonizing your political opponents is nothing new either.
Indeed but what there is wrong in what I've said?
UKIP are nazis?
Don't be silly. They're not nazis.
English Poujadists, really, nothing more complicated than that.
The idea that UKIP are anti-urban or anti-industrialization is nonsense. Some of their biggest support comes from old mining and manufacturing towns. Neither are they anti-parliamentarism, given they want to defend parliament from the encroachment of the authoritarian EU.
The poujadist accusation is just another thinly disguised effort to link them to things like anti-Semitism. It's pathetic.
Poujadism was really a revolt against rapid change. Urbanisation and industrialisation was the themes that it took in France at the time.
There was no attempt to link it to anti-Semitism - you made that one up.
You may not believe it, but I respect UKIP voters while despairing of their leadership (who I regard as self-regarding chancers who would disastrous for the country).
The Telegraphs obit of Poujade makes it clear he held anti-Semitic views.
A little unfair to take the comment "moany farts" out of context.
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
Why? It makes it no less abusive? it doesn't even have the saving grace of being witty as you point out its not very good (actually its piss poor). But there again you Tories always were the Blue Meanies........
I would put it in the category of not worth getting worked up about.
You guys really do seem to have thin skins.
It's the real oddity of kippers. They detest political correctness. Yet when anyone describes them in terms they regard as disparaging, they squeal like stuck pigs.
Remind you of any group you know? Atheists, for instance.
Ed Miliband has been given a ticking-off by police after being snapped giving change to a woman sitting on a Manchester street - because begging is against the law.
Even now, as Labour sups in the last-chance saloon ahead of Nationalist potential Armageddon, the trade union Unite is setting about the lunatic task of blocking Mr Murphy – the party’s only hope – for the crime of being electable.
I swear, this hyping up of Jim "Funereal" Murphy is another example of how detached the Westminster bubble is from reality. What evidence is there that he would be some unstoppable big hit with the public?
A little unfair to take the comment "moany farts" out of context.
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
Why? It makes it no less abusive? it doesn't even have the saving grace of being witty as you point out its not very good (actually its piss poor). But there again you Tories always were the Blue Meanies........
Isn't that one of the anagrams that the Fawlty Towers hotel sign got changed to ?
It is still one of the delightful mysteries of seventies telly - how, in an age when you couldn't say anything remotely rude, let alone sweary, they got away with Flowery Twats.....
Possibly for the same reason the Goon show got away with having a character, who from memory appeared in numerous episodes, called Hugh Jampton. For that matter how did Kenneth Horn and his team get away with the Julian and Sandy sketches*? ISIRTA also regularly took the piss out of the BBC censorship.
Spike Milligan once put forward the theory that those in authority in the BBC, being nice chaps, just didn't have a clue. I think it more likely that, as long as the breaches in the rules, were not blatant the BBC were happy for them to go ahead.
*I am not sure the BBC would allow Julian and Sandy on air in these more enlightened times.
Isn't that one of the anagrams that the Fawlty Towers hotel sign got changed to ?
It is still one of the delightful mysteries of seventies telly - how, in an age when you couldn't say anything remotely rude, let alone sweary, they got away with Flowery Twats.....
The censors probably didn't know what the word meant.
Back in the Sixties, Kenneth Williams got away with Round the Horne which is absolutely filthy.
A little unfair to take the comment "moany farts" out of context.
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
Why? It makes it no less abusive? it doesn't even have the saving grace of being witty as you point out its not very good (actually its piss poor). But there again you Tories always were the Blue Meanies........
I would put it in the category of not worth getting worked up about.
You guys really do seem to have thin skins.
It's the real oddity of kippers. They detest political correctness. Yet when anyone describes them in terms they regard as disparaging, they squeal like stuck pigs.
I don't agree, Frank.
My experience is that Kippers have a pretty decent sense of humour and don't mind a bit of good-natured ribbing. Marf's 'UKIP Map Of The World' was pretty well received here by Kips and non-Kips alike, with one or two inconsequential exceptions. I now learn that it was reproduced on the Facebook page of the UKIP Parliamentary Candidate for Dover, David Little:
Even now, as Labour sups in the last-chance saloon ahead of Nationalist potential Armageddon, the trade union Unite is setting about the lunatic task of blocking Mr Murphy – the party’s only hope – for the crime of being electable.
I swear, this hyping up of Jim "Funereal" Murphy is another example of how detached the Westminster bubble is from reality. What evidence is there that he would be some unstoppable big hit with the public? A bit like the Tories saying they are going to give Mark Reckless a lesson in Rochester. It doesn't seem to be going that way.
This seems to be a theme running through comments on PB - the complete detachment of Westminster from the people they are supposed to be representing.
Ed Miliband has been given a ticking-off by police after being snapped giving change to a woman sitting on a Manchester street - because begging is against the law.
Only for the police, I suspect. They are no wide open to the question of the number of arrests and prosecutions they have made for begging. If they are going to go gobbing off at a National Politician they can expect some questions to be asked about their own conduct.
The UKIP odds in Stocksbridge & Penistone are worth looking at.
I don't think I would fancy being the right honourable er..member for that constituency.
I once read an article by a local chap from the second town complaining about the problems of spelling out the town name when making orders over the telephone - almost always had the phone put down on him after 5 letters.
I can remember when I was a teenager my parents when looking at houses for a house move in South London found a really nice house that basically met all their criteria. Unfortunately it was in a street called "Penistone Road". No offer was made.
I've often thought that the name can't do anything for house price values there...
Isn't that one of the anagrams that the Fawlty Towers hotel sign got changed to ?
It is still one of the delightful mysteries of seventies telly - how, in an age when you couldn't say anything remotely rude, let alone sweary, they got away with Flowery Twats.....
Possibly for the same reason the Goon show got away with having a character, who from memory appeared in numerous episodes, called Hugh Jampton. For that matter how did Kenneth Horn and his team get away with the Julian and Sandy sketches*? ISIRTA also regularly took the piss out of the BBC censorship.
Spike Milligan once put forward the theory that those in authority in the BBC, being nice chaps, just didn't have a clue. I think it more likely that, as long as the breaches in the rules, were not blatant the BBC were happy for them to go ahead.
*I am not sure the BBC would allow Julian and Sandy on air in these more enlightened times.
Round the Horn(e) was SO full of innuendo. Who, of our generation, can forget Rambling Sid Rumpole? Let alone, as previously quoted, Julian and Sandy!
However, I'm surprised that Citizen Khan is screened!
The UKIP odds in Stocksbridge & Penistone are worth looking at.
I don't think I would fancy being the right honourable er..member for that constituency.
I once read an article by a local chap from the second town complaining about the problems of spelling out the town name when making orders over the telephone - almost always had the phone put down on him after 5 letters.
I can remember when I was a teenager my parents when looking at houses for a house move in South London found a really nice house that basically met all their criteria. Unfortunately it was in a street called "Penistone Road". No offer was made.
I've often thought that the name can't do anything for house price values there...
In Radlett, there's Faggots Close.
My favourite place in London is the narrow Milkmaid's Passage.
Isn't that one of the anagrams that the Fawlty Towers hotel sign got changed to ?
It is still one of the delightful mysteries of seventies telly - how, in an age when you couldn't say anything remotely rude, let alone sweary, they got away with Flowery Twats.....
Possibly for the same reason the Goon show got away with having a character, who from memory appeared in numerous episodes, called Hugh Jampton. For that matter how did Kenneth Horn and his team get away with the Julian and Sandy sketches*? ISIRTA also regularly took the piss out of the BBC censorship.
Spike Milligan once put forward the theory that those in authority in the BBC, being nice chaps, just didn't have a clue. I think it more likely that, as long as the breaches in the rules, were not blatant the BBC were happy for them to go ahead.
*I am not sure the BBC would allow Julian and Sandy on air in these more enlightened times.
tim's silly phrase ... PB Tories never learn ... seems to be true as regards their attitude to Kippers.
They simultaneously want to insult them and also convince them to vote Conservative. Think of them as Millwall football supporters. To get them to support Chelsea, you chant "You're all thick."
Yup, that will have them queueing down the road at Stamford Bridge.
At least, TSE is only interested in insulting them and would rather lose the election than have them on his side.
In fact, the arrogant insulting others they think of as their intellectual inferiors is counterproductive. But as tim said ...
Wasn't Jim Murphy rumoured to have been the source for a lot of the leaks when he was a shadow cabinet minister? He is therefore on good terms with a lot of the media, which is maybe why he's getting these endorsements from the Spectator and the Telegraph.
I'm going to Troll so apologies in advance but I want this off my chest.
It is not unprecedented through European political history and current European politics for a new party to become popular by combining Nationalism, blaming most things going wrong in the country as a result of actions taken by organisations or peoples overseas and.or as a result of particular minorities within the host country itself.
That is perhaps why UKIP is the most disliked party whilst also having a very significant and motivated group of supporters too. It works and has always worked but it's certainly nothing new in the history of politics.
Now feel free to assault the wet pro-european tory stance I favour!!
Demonizing your political opponents is nothing new either.
Indeed but what there is wrong in what I've said?
UKIP are nazis?
Don't be silly. They're not nazis.
English Poujadists, really, nothing more complicated than that.
The idea that UKIP are anti-urban or anti-industrialization is nonsense. Some of their biggest support comes from old mining and manufacturing towns. Neither are they anti-parliamentarism, given they want to defend parliament from the encroachment of the authoritarian EU.
The poujadist accusation is just another thinly disguised effort to link them to things like anti-Semitism. It's pathetic.
Poujadism was really a revolt against rapid change. Urbanisation and industrialisation was the themes that it took in France at the time.
There was no attempt to link it to anti-Semitism - you made that one up.
You may not believe it, but I respect UKIP voters while despairing of their leadership (who I regard as self-regarding chancers who would disastrous for the country).
I didn't mean it was an attempt by you personally to link it to anti-Semitism, but I think the broader push of that comparison is trying to imply that link. If you've studied French political history from this period, you would know it's a defining aspect of the movement.
If the comparison is as vague as "movements that have emerged in opposition to social change" then you've described half the political movements in history, from the Bolsheviks to the Orange Order.
A little unfair to take the comment "moany farts" out of context.
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
Why? It makes it no less abusive? it doesn't even have the saving grace of being witty as you point out its not very good (actually its piss poor). But there again you Tories always were the Blue Meanies........
I would put it in the category of not worth getting worked up about.
You guys really do seem to have thin skins.
It's the real oddity of kippers. They detest political correctness. Yet when anyone describes them in terms they regard as disparaging, they squeal like stuck pigs.
I don't agree, Frank.
My experience is that Kippers have a pretty decent sense of humour and don't mind a bit of good-natured ribbing. Marf's 'UKIP Map Of The World' was pretty well received here by Kips and non-Kips alike, with one or two inconsequential exceptions. I now learn that it was reproduced on the Facebook page of the UKIP Parliamentary Candidate for Dover, David Little:
Isn't that one of the anagrams that the Fawlty Towers hotel sign got changed to ?
It is still one of the delightful mysteries of seventies telly - how, in an age when you couldn't say anything remotely rude, let alone sweary, they got away with Flowery Twats.....
The censors probably didn't know what the word meant.
Back in the Sixties, Kenneth Williams got away with Round the Horne which is absolutely filthy.
The camp dialogues between Williams and Hugh Paddick were hilarious but so blue they can only have got through because the authorities simply didn't understand them.
The UKIP odds in Stocksbridge & Penistone are worth looking at.
I don't think I would fancy being the right honourable er..member for that constituency.
I once read an article by a local chap from the second town complaining about the problems of spelling out the town name when making orders over the telephone - almost always had the phone put down on him after 5 letters.
I can remember when I was a teenager my parents when looking at houses for a house move in South London found a really nice house that basically met all their criteria. Unfortunately it was in a street called "Penistone Road". No offer was made.
I've often thought that the name can't do anything for house price values there...
In Radlett, there's Faggots Close.
My favourite place in London is the narrow Milkmaid's Passage.
Grape Street had a different name pre-19th century.
I think Ukippers' reaction to insults stems from two things.
Disbelief that they as voters are being insulted by a party that wants their votes. Supposedly. It's a bit like walking into a shop and being racially insulted, but the shopkeeper still expects to receive your money.
As pointed out, the Cameroons are very PC about groups that would never vote for them, but outstandingly rude to those who would. The sheer double standard infuriates Ukippers. The example that sticks in my mind is the hoo-ha over revenge porn, but when a young female Ukipper is the victim there was silence from the normally vocal sisterhood.
Isn't that one of the anagrams that the Fawlty Towers hotel sign got changed to ?
It is still one of the delightful mysteries of seventies telly - how, in an age when you couldn't say anything remotely rude, let alone sweary, they got away with Flowery Twats.....
Possibly for the same reason the Goon show got away with having a character, who from memory appeared in numerous episodes, called Hugh Jampton. For that matter how did Kenneth Horn and his team get away with the Julian and Sandy sketches*? ISIRTA also regularly took the piss out of the BBC censorship.
Spike Milligan once put forward the theory that those in authority in the BBC, being nice chaps, just didn't have a clue. I think it more likely that, as long as the breaches in the rules, were not blatant the BBC were happy for them to go ahead.
*I am not sure the BBC would allow Julian and Sandy on air in these more enlightened times.
Round the Horn(e) was SO full of innuendo. Who, of our generation, can forget Rambling Sid Rumpole? Let alone, as previously quoted, Julian and Sandy!
However, I'm surprised that Citizen Khan is screened!
Don't forget Herr Lipp, from the League of Gentlemen.
@Socrates - can you share with us what white working class culture is in England and what bits of it Labour hates?
There's always been an element of the upper-middle class which hates the working class, on either economic and/or social grounds. This, please note, is across the political spectrum.
Among leftist upper-middle classes there can also be a sense of 'betrayal' that the 'chosen people' ie the 'workers' haven't turned out as they were supposed to be. Obviously it can't be that intellectual socialists were wrong but the working class have failed their 'bettors'.
There's probably a resentment factor among upper-middle class leftist politicians that for decades they had to have working class constituencies and support working class issues.
Now add in globalisation providing a new working class of immigrants who are cheaper and more subservient than the locals and the resentment of the British working class grows.
As it would be 'racist' to be disparaging about the non-white British working class the full force of the dislike is transferred onto the wwc.
Comments
youtube.com/watch?v=wcSg6dAZ03w
There is no chance whatsoever of it. There is more chance of Burnley winning the Premier League for the next ten seasons in a row than Cameron being forced out this side of May 8th.
Second, good job it was clear cut, otherwise the rules were a bit vague.
Together with some rich private sector sector professionals in finance, law, 'consulting' etc.
Its safe to say that none of these groups have a high opinion of UKIP or of the wwc generally.
The increasing economic inequality I spoke of earlier is most evident in cities and the bigger the city the more evident it is.
Cities have lots of jobs for 'professionals' and lots of low wage / low skilled jobs in the service sector but increasingly few of the C1C2 jobs.
Added to this is the increasing cost of city living, property costs above all which means that the people living there are either those at the top of the economic scale or those at the bottom (either immigrants living in multi-occupancy or locals surviving on welfare).
Consequently the C1C2s move out to 'middling' areas where people doing an 'average' job on 'average' earnings can still afford an 'average' house and have an 'average' life.
Certainly in South Yorkshire there are now, judging by the accents I hear, significant numbers of ex-Londoners or ex-Home Counties people whereas a couple of decades ago such people would have been very rare.
But we're now in an era where the political class has become more urban dominated than previously.
Inevitably they are influenced by the environment they experience ie increasingly left wing cities.
This I would suggest is especially dangerous for the Conservative party. If the Conservative leadership increasingly chase after leftish urban votes while their voters are increasingly hostile to the 'urban mentality' then a political vacuum will be created.
Into this UKIP steps.
If Reckless wins easily on the 20th, this would show how easy it is and there's an MEP berth as a safety net.
This is interesting; but if you examine the individual data, it doesn't add up.
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/america-pre-qualifying.html
Anyone know if this is true?
Now add in how many are in Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Edinburgh etc.
There will also be a wide variation within London with proportionally far more in Camden, Islington and Lambeth than there is Havering, Bexley and Sutton.
According to this Conservative MP, people thinking of voting #UKIP in #RochesterAndStrood are 'moany farts'
Embedded image permalink
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/blabbermouth-scots-ukip-mep-launches-4324887
I've often thought that the name can't do anything for house price values there...
Isn't that one of the anagrams that the Fawlty Towers hotel sign got changed to ?
English Poujadists, really, nothing more complicated than that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Poujade
http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=sn05125
But, but what about all those people wanting to know how the second preferences split...
FEED THE BEAST!!
What fine role models 'Private Cameron's Phony Tart*uck Gang' are to young women
Sounds like an intelligent, objective, evidence-based and consensus-forming way to go.
http://labourlist.org/2014/10/miliband-announces-plans-to-scrap-the-lords-and-introduce-an-elected-senate-of-nations-and-regions/
You've scuppered my scheme to find out the extent of anti-UKIP Conservative voting intent.
A little unfair to take the comment "moany farts" out of context.
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
Considering David Cameron's well known views on Ukippers, shouldn't that be Loony Farts Club Band?
He withdrew that comment later.
Very impressive from Ed.
It's clear a (not very good) riff on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Nigel Farage's Moany Farts Club Band)
Why? It makes it no less abusive? it doesn't even have the saving grace of being witty as you point out its not very good (actually its piss poor). But there again you Tories always were the Blue Meanies........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Submarine_(film)
The poujadist accusation is just another thinly disguised effort to link them to things like anti-Semitism. It's pathetic.
After reaffirming it first, though.
Only when it started to cause him trouble did he "withdraw" it.
The man is an absolute weasel.
No he hasn't. It was one of his usual non denial denial waffle round the houses type comments
The bright white light, yellow,
Skids along the pavement, shallow,
Path of sunlight, brief and slim,
Tumbles through autumnal dim.
Desiccated twig and leaf
Crunch and crumble underneath;
Orange, red and rusty brown
Dust becomes the ancient ground.
Black and grey accumulations
Rumble up to perorations
Last gasp of long-dead thunder
Blow and bluster, grimly blunder
Down below we shift and shuffle,
Veiled by our scarf and muffle;
Keep against the wind and rain
Waiting for the sun again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Submarine_(film)
I would put it in the category of not worth getting worked up about.
You guys really do seem to have thin skins.
You guys really do seem to have thin skins.
It's the real oddity of kippers. They detest political correctness. Yet when anyone describes them in terms they regard as disparaging, they squeal like stuck pigs.
There was no attempt to link it to anti-Semitism - you made that one up.
You may not believe it, but I respect UKIP voters while despairing of their leadership (who I regard as self-regarding chancers who would disastrous for the country).
Fraser Nelson believes he withdrew it, and that's good enough for me.
You guys really do seem to have thin skins.
Thin skins? After the crap your lot have repeatedly thrown at us? Hardly In my case I just like the sport. But if you don't want to play............
ROFLMAO That sad little doormat.......
You guys really do seem to have thin skins.
Well, it's comments like that which make me yearn to vote UKIP. It's not that I identify with them, it's simply the mixture of condescension and entitlement that the quip conveys.
If I automatically vote Conservative (as I have done all my life), then I'm no better than the donkeys who vote for whoever has the red rosette.
In terms of the level of insult, I agree, you'd have to be very thin skinned to get worked up about it.
Albeit from the same polling company who told us Yes were going to win a few weeks before No won by 10%!
The Nat surge at the moment is putting the pressure on for devomax, but once the bill for devomax is introduced in January with the second reading by the general election the surge will begin to recede
It is still one of the delightful mysteries of seventies telly - how, in an age when you couldn't say anything remotely rude, let alone sweary, they got away with Flowery Twats.....
Remind you of any group you know? Atheists, for instance.
Doh! It just gets woise n woise....
Winter is icummen in,
Lhude sing Goddamm.
Raineth drop and staineth slop,
And how the wind doth ramm!
Sing: Goddamm.
Skiddeth bus and sloppeth us,
An ague hath my ham.
Freezeth river, turneth liver,
Damn you, sing: Goddamm.
Goddamm, Goddamm, 'tis why I am, Goddamm,
So 'gainst the winter's balm.
Sing goddamm, damm, sing Goddamm.
Sing goddamm, sing goddamm, DAMM.
I swear, this hyping up of Jim "Funereal" Murphy is another example of how detached the Westminster bubble is from reality. What evidence is there that he would be some unstoppable big hit with the public?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Submarine_(film)
Do I hear the noise of a barrel being scraped?
Possibly for the same reason the Goon show got away with having a character, who from memory appeared in numerous episodes, called Hugh Jampton. For that matter how did Kenneth Horn and his team get away with the Julian and Sandy sketches*? ISIRTA also regularly took the piss out of the BBC censorship.
Spike Milligan once put forward the theory that those in authority in the BBC, being nice chaps, just didn't have a clue. I think it more likely that, as long as the breaches in the rules, were not blatant the BBC were happy for them to go ahead.
*I am not sure the BBC would allow Julian and Sandy on air in these more enlightened times.
The censors probably didn't know what the word meant.
Back in the Sixties, Kenneth Williams got away with Round the Horne which is absolutely filthy.
I don't agree, Frank.
My experience is that Kippers have a pretty decent sense of humour and don't mind a bit of good-natured ribbing. Marf's 'UKIP Map Of The World' was pretty well received here by Kips and non-Kips alike, with one or two inconsequential exceptions. I now learn that it was reproduced on the Facebook page of the UKIP Parliamentary Candidate for Dover, David Little:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204807407882083&set=a.10204781269788647.1073741831.1144945223&type=1&theater
As the man himself writes, 'If you can't laugh at yourself, there's no hope.'
Apparently the toon is due to appear in tomorrow's Sunday People. I wonder how it will go down there?
A bit like the Tories saying they are going to give Mark Reckless a lesson in Rochester. It doesn't seem to be going that way.
This seems to be a theme running through comments on PB - the complete detachment of Westminster from the people they are supposed to be representing.
Only for the police, I suspect. They are no wide open to the question of the number of arrests and prosecutions they have made for begging. If they are going to go gobbing off at a National Politician they can expect some questions to be asked about their own conduct.
Spike Milligan once put forward the theory that those in authority in the BBC, being nice chaps, just didn't have a clue. I think it more likely that, as long as the breaches in the rules, were not blatant the BBC were happy for them to go ahead.
*I am not sure the BBC would allow Julian and Sandy on air in these more enlightened times.
Round the Horn(e) was SO full of innuendo. Who, of our generation, can forget Rambling Sid Rumpole? Let alone, as previously quoted, Julian and Sandy!
However, I'm surprised that Citizen Khan is screened!
Spike Milligan once put forward the theory that those in authority in the BBC, being nice chaps, just didn't have a clue. I think it more likely that, as long as the breaches in the rules, were not blatant the BBC were happy for them to go ahead.
*I am not sure the BBC would allow Julian and Sandy on air in these more enlightened times.
They did allow Little Britain.
They simultaneously want to insult them and also convince them to vote Conservative. Think of them as Millwall football supporters. To get them to support Chelsea, you chant "You're all thick."
Yup, that will have them queueing down the road at Stamford Bridge.
At least, TSE is only interested in insulting them and would rather lose the election than have them on his side.
In fact, the arrogant insulting others they think of as their intellectual inferiors is counterproductive. But as tim said ...
If the comparison is as vague as "movements that have emerged in opposition to social change" then you've described half the political movements in history, from the Bolsheviks to the Orange Order.
My experience is that Kippers have a pretty decent sense of humour and don't mind a bit of good-natured ribbing. Marf's 'UKIP Map Of The World' was pretty well received here by Kips and non-Kips alike, with one or two inconsequential exceptions. I now learn that it was reproduced on the Facebook page of the UKIP Parliamentary Candidate for Dover, David Little:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204807407882083&set=a.10204781269788647.1073741831.1144945223&type=1&theater
As the man himself writes, 'If you can't laugh at yourself, there's no hope.'
Apparently the toon is due to appear in tomorrow's Sunday People. I wonder how it will go down there?
TBF, all credit to the Fruitcake PPC for Dover. There's an American who publishes all sort of Maps of the World as seen by ......
Back in the Sixties, Kenneth Williams got away with Round the Horne which is absolutely filthy.
The camp dialogues between Williams and Hugh Paddick were hilarious but so blue they can only have got through because the authorities simply didn't understand them.
'Bona, bona!'
Timeless brilliance.
Our ancestors were far blunter than we are.
Disbelief that they as voters are being insulted by a party that wants their votes. Supposedly.
It's a bit like walking into a shop and being racially insulted, but the shopkeeper still expects to receive your money.
As pointed out, the Cameroons are very PC about groups that would never vote for them, but outstandingly rude to those who would. The sheer double standard infuriates Ukippers. The example that sticks in my mind is the hoo-ha over revenge porn, but when a young female Ukipper is the victim there was silence from the normally vocal sisterhood.
However, I'm surprised that Citizen Khan is screened!
Don't forget Herr Lipp, from the League of Gentlemen.
Among leftist upper-middle classes there can also be a sense of 'betrayal' that the 'chosen people' ie the 'workers' haven't turned out as they were supposed to be. Obviously it can't be that intellectual socialists were wrong but the working class have failed their 'bettors'.
There's probably a resentment factor among upper-middle class leftist politicians that for decades they had to have working class constituencies and support working class issues.
Now add in globalisation providing a new working class of immigrants who are cheaper and more subservient than the locals and the resentment of the British working class grows.
As it would be 'racist' to be disparaging about the non-white British working class the full force of the dislike is transferred onto the wwc.