There will be no referendum. We are not going to destabilise the UK for years merely to ask a question to which we already know the answer. I am euroagnostic but the idea we should or would vote to leave is so preposterous I am amazed that otherwise intellegent people even countenance it.
The polls have it 50/50.. how could someone who has no real view takes such a closed minded position?
On the Scottish question, Dave has settled it for a generation now.. whatever the SNP says, and the SNP has got 80,000 new members and is in great shape. It cost Salmond his job but well that is politics.
Fair play to both Dave and Alex for putting their necks on the block (Dave would have probably gone in a YES vote) and asking the question and getting the answer.
Labour simply don't trust the people however.
I'm probably about as Europhile a poster as there is on this Site and even I think there should be a Referendum.
It's one of the few things SeanT and I agree about. (We also agree that the EU project is about Federalism, but as I regard that as inherently good and he regards it as inherently bad I'm not sure that counts as agreement.)
The EU we have now is so different to that which was put to the voters under Heath that there is an unacceptable democratic deficit in continuing without a 'b-your-leave- from the voters.
Like SeanT, I would happily accept the outcome, whatever it is. I suspect we would stay in, by a whisker, but the question should be asked.
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Why should people be herded into the pens that the PC brigade want them to go into?
Especially when the premise is wrong in the first place
What people who criticise things like this are saying is "Stick to your own"
In attempting to be clever and right on they are revealing their own prejudices
Does everyone have to sing in their natural accent? A lot of songs would sound very different if that were the case
Sam come on. Here we have a party which leads on anti-immigration, whose election literature I believe is nasty or at least alludes to some very nasty party literature of days gone by and lo...they decide to record a calypso song as "just a bit of fun."
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Why should people be herded into the pens that the PC brigade want them to go into?
Especially when the premise is wrong in the first place
What people who criticise things like this are saying is "Stick to your own"
In attempting to be clever and right on they are revealing their own prejudices
Does everyone have to sing in their natural accent? A lot of songs would sound very different if that were the case
On message.
My own thoughts, I never would toe the party line
What do you think? Would it be wrong if a Black West Indian sang a Beatle-esque song in an English accent? That seems to be the logic in criticising Mike Read
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Maybe a lot of people don't have the english middle class obsession with "race". What exactly does the name calling prove ?
I don't actually understand that comment. What are you saying that only the english middle class have a problem with race? What, as opposed to for example those with a view on race in Ulster?
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Why should people be herded into the pens that the PC brigade want them to go into?
Especially when the premise is wrong in the first place
What people who criticise things like this are saying is "Stick to your own"
In attempting to be clever and right on they are revealing their own prejudices
Does everyone have to sing in their natural accent? A lot of songs would sound very different if that were the case
Sam come on. Here we have a party which leads on anti-immigration, whose election literature I believe is nasty or at least alludes to some very nasty party literature of days gone by and lo...they decide to record a calypso song as "just a bit of fun."
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Why should people be herded into the pens that the PC brigade want them to go into?
Especially when the premise is wrong in the first place
What people who criticise things like this are saying is "Stick to your own"
In attempting to be clever and right on they are revealing their own prejudices
Does everyone have to sing in their natural accent? A lot of songs would sound very different if that were the case
Sam come on. Here we have a party which leads on anti-immigration, whose election literature I believe is nasty or at least alludes to some very nasty party literature of days gone by and lo...they decide to record a calypso song as "just a bit of fun."
Really?
Anti unlimited, unskilled immigration, a major difference. Immigration would continue under UKIP
Your beliefs influence your view, I am surprised you cant see that
Would you mind a black West Indian singing a Beatle-esque tune in a faux English accent?
Racial equality means equality, not choosing what is right or wrong depending on racial origin
I really, really, really don't get the fuss about this.
I assumed that UB40's [or DW40 as my mother called them] lead singer was black until I saw him.
Alex Clare is my #1 favourite artist right now and I presumed he was black given he does a very solid impersonation of Stevie Wonder. That he's a white, Jewish convert who was an estate agent in a former life is neither here nor there.
Why do people persist in trying to make it waaaycist? It always reminds me of a great joke in one of Colin Bateman's books [Divorcing Jack]. His black American contact uses the name Al Jolson. Just brilliant.
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
Havent heard it, don't want to either..
But the idea that it is racist if a singer does a bit of a carribean accent on a calypso style song is almost up there with Ed Miliband's nonsense re Lord Freud
If a Black West Indian sang a mod style song in a London accent I wouldn't mind at all, let alone the fact that there are many black Londoners, and white West Indians
So it is the "wacist" screamers who judge/divide things on colour.. I thought the point was there was no difference?
By these standards we should question anyone who isn't English reading Shakespearean dialogue in an English accent
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Maybe a lot of people don't have the english middle class obsession with "race". What exactly does the name calling prove ?
I don't actually understand that comment. What are you saying that only the english middle class have a problem with race? What, as opposed to for example those with a view on race in Ulster?
Dear god you have reduced me to quoting from the Guardian.
Is this what you mean?
Please explain your comment?
Yeah, you have the english middle class fascination with stupid name calling. If you want to see real in your face racism there are loads of places it happens as your article shows.
You bandy the expression about without actually understanding what it means.
There will be no referendum. We are not going to destabilise the UK for years merely to ask a question to which we already know the answer. I am euroagnostic but the idea we should or would vote to leave is so preposterous I am amazed that otherwise intellegent people even countenance it.
The polls have it 50/50.. how could someone who has no real view takes such a closed minded position?
On the Scottish question, Dave has settled it for a generation now.. whatever the SNP says, and the SNP has got 80,000 new members and is in great shape. It cost Salmond his job but well that is politics.
Fair play to both Dave and Alex for putting their necks on the block (Dave would have probably gone in a YES vote) and asking the question and getting the answer.
Labour simply don't trust the people however.
I'm probably about as Europhile a poster as there is on this Site and even I think there should be a Referendum.
It's one of the few things SeanT and I agree about. (We also agree that the EU project is about Federalism, but as I regard that as inherently good and he regards it as inherently bad I'm not sure that counts as agreement.)
The EU we have now is so different to that which was put to the voters under Heath that there is an unacceptable democratic deficit in continuing without a 'b-your-leave- from the voters.
Like SeanT, I would happily accept the outcome, whatever it is. I suspect we would stay in, by a whisker, but the question should be asked.
I agree. As someone who has not decided which way I will vote, I'll decide based on the factors at the time.
Kippers wouldn't let me and my partner marry if they had their way.
So they can stop bleating about others being authoritarian.
The point is that almost everyone is authoritarian, its just that they have different views on what is right and wrong... Self styled progressives are as authoritarian as anyone else
I really like Mind Your Language as it actually addressed the cross-cultural prejudices in a pretty clever way. Sure it's very dated, but like Eurovision for SitComLand when it comes to stereotyping.
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Maybe a lot of people don't have the english middle class obsession with "race". What exactly does the name calling prove ?
I don't actually understand that comment. What are you saying that only the english middle class have a problem with race? What, as opposed to for example those with a view on race in Ulster?
Dear god you have reduced me to quoting from the Guardian.
Is this what you mean?
Please explain your comment?
the english middle class fascination with stupid name calling
This is the bit that I don't have the foggiest what it means.
What does it mean? Identifying things that are racist or that look like they are racist is an "english middle class fascination with stupid name calling"?
If someone calls someone a N****** is that racist or is the objection to it just an english middle class fascination with stupid name calling?
I really, really, really don't get the fuss about this.
I assumed that UB40's [or DW40 as my mother called them] lead singer was black until I saw him.
Alex Clare is my #1 favourite artist right now and I presumed he was black given he does a very solid impersonation of Stevie Wonder. That he's a white, Jewish convert who was an estate agent in a former life is neither here nor there.
Why do people persist in trying to make it waaaycist? It always reminds me of a great joke in one of Colin Bateman's books [Divorcing Jack]. His black American contact uses the name Al Jolson. Just brilliant.
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
Havent heard it, don't want to either..
But the idea that it is racist if a singer does a bit of a carribean accent on a calypso style song is almost up there with Ed Miliband's nonsense re Lord Freud
If a Black West Indian sang a mod style song in a London accent I wouldn't mind at all, let alone the fact that there are many black Londoners, and white West Indians
So it is the "wacist" screamers who judge/divide things on colour.. I thought the point was there was no difference?
By these standards we should question anyone who isn't English reading Shakespearean dialogue in an English accent
UB40 is a very good example.
It is almost worth Mike Read making this, no doubt awful, tune to tempt people into mistakenly calling it racist & highlight their outrageous double standards
Its the kind of inflexible pre judgemental mindset that would see a white kid in 1970s South London forgetting to pay for something and the shopkeeper letting him pay later, but a black kid doing the same and getting a visit from the police (prob before he got home)
If people don't like UKIP, that's their choice, but to let the hatred warp their mind into irrational criticism of everything associated with UKIP is quite pitiful
Correct my maths if needed but i work out the average point of those figures to come to something like;
Lab: 30% Con: 27% UKIP: 23% LD: 10% Green: 9%
Perhaps not a bad prediction?
The root ComRes numbers were:
Lab 34% Con 31% UKIP 19% LD 7% Green 4%
But your mid-point numbers look a lot more like their 'prompt for UKIP' poll, which is encouraging!
I'm not sure how seriously to take these figures, TBH. How was the question worded? They seem like 2nd order derivative voting intention questions to me. Effectively, "if there were a general election tomorrow, would you seriously consider voting for the following?"
Besides which, they might not pick up all prospective voters. I.e. there might be voters who wouldn't seriously consider voting 'Conservative', but would consider voting for David Cameron as PM to stop Ed Miliband.
1. I find this presentation of Mr Miliband as some terrifying Stalin figure rather difficult to accept. I hope the Conservatives are going to be able to come up with a positive case for voting blue.
..... ISIS have stoned to death a woman for adultery, and filmed it (of course). .............. The report also says another woman was stoned to death by ISIS when "her new husband discovered she was not a virgin". ... It's clear that ISIS have now mutated into something purely evil: why else would they post videos like this? They WANT to terrorise, and they WANT to attract psychotic recruits who are turned on by this stuff. They are a viral form of Satanism, which spreads through social media.
But ISIS are just practising a form of Islam, no surprise to me. The question that is not faced up to is why the so called moderate Islamists are not out driving out of Islamic groups the nut cases? Instead they seem to try and ignore it or maybe they secretly agree?
Kippers wouldn't let me and my partner marry if they had their way.
So they can stop bleating about others being authoritarian.
The point is that almost everyone is authoritarian, its just that they have different views on what is right and wrong... Self styled progressives are as authoritarian as anyone else
That's your point. My point is that kippers are the ones trying to tell me how to live my life in ways that are far more personal than any of the matters that they're whining on about.
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Maybe a lot of people don't have the english middle class obsession with "race". What exactly does the name calling prove ?
I don't actually understand that comment. What are you saying that only the english middle class have a problem with race? What, as opposed to for example those with a view on race in Ulster?
Dear god you have reduced me to quoting from the Guardian.
Is this what you mean?
Please explain your comment?
the english middle class fascination with stupid name calling
This is the bit that I don't have the foggiest what it means.
What does it mean? Identifying things that are racist or that look like they are racist is an "english middle class fascination with stupid name calling"?
If someone calls someone a N****** is that racist or is the objection to it just an english middle class fascination with stupid name calling?
The latter. If they are kicking someone's head in at the same time as yelling it that's racism.
Anyway, since political bets seem thin on the ground...and I had a bit of success recently....I've got a tip for those wanting to challenge the bookmakers.
3.20 Wolverhampton: Little Belter.
I just got 4/1 with Betvictor, which will do nicely. There's eight runners so some ew value if you are so inclined and they don't pull one out.
Progressives think they are sooo modern but they are just old fashioned authoritarians wearing different clothes with the addition of blinkers.
Control is central to the everyone on the left. Take Climate change. It isn;t about the climate, its about controlling the behaviour of others via self appointed authority.
Luckily it comes with a fair dollop of smugness. The same smugness of those who just know they are right. And are intolerant of any other views.
The Labour party exists to make it illegal to say "It's a free country, I'll say what I like"; "I'm entitled to my opinion"; or "Nice one Cyril". All three are things you used to hear quite often, but you don't any more.
The acceptable versions are "You'll say what I like" and "You're entitled to my opinion".
I think 'Nice one Cyril' was actually banned by Operation Yewtree
I really, really, really don't get the fuss about this.
I assumed that UB40's [or DW40 as my mother called them] lead singer was black until I saw him.
Alex Clare is my #1 favourite artist right now and I presumed he was black given he does a very solid impersonation of Stevie Wonder. That he's a white, Jewish convert who was an estate agent in a former life is neither here nor there.
Why do people persist in trying to make it waaaycist? It always reminds me of a great joke in one of Colin Bateman's books [Divorcing Jack]. His black American contact uses the name Al Jolson. Just brilliant.
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
Havent heard it, don't want to either..
But the idea that it is racist if a singer does a bit of a carribean accent on a calypso style song is almost up there with Ed Miliband's nonsense re Lord Freud
If a Black West Indian sang a mod style song in a London accent I wouldn't mind at all, let alone the fact that there are many black Londoners, and white West Indians
So it is the "wacist" screamers who judge/divide things on colour.. I thought the point was there was no difference?
By these standards we should question anyone who isn't English reading Shakespearean dialogue in an English accent
Affecting a west indian accept seems to be fashionable amongst some white teens at the moment. No idea why.
Kippers wouldn't let me and my partner marry if they had their way.
So they can stop bleating about others being authoritarian.
The point is that almost everyone is authoritarian, its just that they have different views on what is right and wrong... Self styled progressives are as authoritarian as anyone else
That's your point. My point is that kippers are the ones trying to tell me how to live my life in ways that are far more personal than any of the matters that they're whining on about.
Yes, and many people who disagree with you on other matters feel the same regarding their lives.. so as I said, almost everyone is authoritarian, it's just a case of what is important to them that dictates their bleeding heart
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Maybe a lot of people don't have the english middle class obsession with "race". What exactly does the name calling prove ?
I don't actually understand that comment. What are you saying that only the english middle class have a problem with race? What, as opposed to for example those with a view on race in Ulster?
Dear god you have reduced me to quoting from the Guardian.
Is this what you mean?
Please explain your comment?
the english middle class fascination with stupid name calling
This is the bit that I don't have the foggiest what it means.
What does it mean? Identifying things that are racist or that look like they are racist is an "english middle class fascination with stupid name calling"?
If someone calls someone a N****** is that racist or is the objection to it just an english middle class fascination with stupid name calling?
The latter. If they are kicking someone's head in at the same time as yelling it that's racism.
So:
1. if they walk down the street and yell: "N*****" any objection to this is ridiculous english fascination with name calling; but 2. if they walk down the street, yell "N*****" and then go and smack the person concerned it is racism.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Oh, what if the person's feelings are hurt rather than his nose? Is that a new category or does that not matter?
Mike Read's UKIP calypso is so bad that the accent should not come into it. That said, isn't it about context? People singing songs with American accents or fake West Indian accents or whatever are usually doing it to make money, not to make a political point. Mike's song is political and one of the things it is about is "illegal immigration". No immigration from the EU is illegal, so who are dese illegals Mike sing 'bout?
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Maybe a lot of people don't have the english middle class obsession with "race". What exactly does the name calling prove ?
I don't actually understand that comment. What are you saying that only the english middle class have a problem with race? What, as opposed to for example those with a view on race in Ulster?
Dear god you have reduced me to quoting from the Guardian.
Is this what you mean?
Please explain your comment?
the english middle class fascination with stupid name calling
This is the bit that I don't have the foggiest what it means.
What does it mean? Identifying things that are racist or that look like they are racist is an "english middle class fascination with stupid name calling"?
If someone calls someone a N****** is that racist or is the objection to it just an english middle class fascination with stupid name calling?
The latter. If they are kicking someone's head in at the same time as yelling it that's racism.
So:
1. if they walk down the street and yell: "N*****" any objection to this is ridiculous english fascination with name calling; but 2. if they walk down the street, yell "N*****" and then go and smack the person concerned it is racism.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Oh, what if the person's feelings are hurt rather than his nose? Is that a new category or does that not matter?
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Maybe a lot of people don't have the english middle class obsession with "race". What exactly does the name calling prove ?
I don't actually understand that comment. What are you saying that only the english middle class have a problem with race? What, as opposed to for example those with a view on race in Ulster?
Dear god you have reduced me to quoting from the Guardian.
Is this what you mean?
Please explain your comment?
Yeah, you have the english middle class fascination with stupid name calling. If you want to see real in your face racism there are loads of places it happens as your article shows.
You bandy the expression about without actually understanding what it means.
Imagine how black people across the world who have been treated in the most appalling ways because of racism must look on in disbelief when they hear some of the things that are considered to be under the same umbrella here
I don't know the areas very well nowadays, but had it as my patch as a regional manager back in the early 90s. Well hard in many places, especially Gillingham.
Labour 50-1 is the story. What has happened to the leftish vote in Kent?
I still can't figure out Labour giving up on a big swathe of turf that has recently been their own.
Kent's a socially conservative sort of place, on both the left and right of politics. Millipede and his right-on Primrose Hill chums - to quote Morrissey - say nothing to them about their lives. Why UKIP are a big force in East Kent and the Medway Towns (which is "where you take northerners when they say southerners are soft").
There is nothing much good about social conservatism, which is essentially telling others how to live their lives. The Kentish are welcome to it
I don't know the areas very well nowadays, but had it as my patch as a regional manager back in the early 90s. Well hard in many places, especially Gillingham.
Labour 50-1 is the story. What has happened to the leftish vote in Kent?
I still can't figure out Labour giving up on a big swathe of turf that has recently been their own.
Kent's a socially conservative sort of place, on both the left and right of politics. Millipede and his right-on Primrose Hill chums - to quote Morrissey - say nothing to them about their lives. Why UKIP are a big force in East Kent and the Medway Towns (which is "where you take northerners when they say southerners are soft").
There is nothing much good about social conservatism, which is essentially telling others how to live their lives. The Kentish are welcome to it
Isn't left wing politics about "telling others how to live their lives?"
Correct my maths if needed but i work out the average point of those figures to come to something like;
Lab: 30% Con: 27% UKIP: 23% LD: 10% Green: 9%
Perhaps not a bad prediction?
The root ComRes numbers were:
Lab 34% Con 31% UKIP 19% LD 7% Green 4%
But your mid-point numbers look a lot more like their 'prompt for UKIP' poll, which is encouraging!
I'm not sure how seriously to take these figures, TBH. How was the question worded? They seem like 2nd order derivative voting intention questions to me. Effectively, "if there were a general election tomorrow, would you seriously consider voting for the following?"
Besides which, they might not pick up all prospective voters. I.e. there might be voters who wouldn't seriously consider voting 'Conservative', but would consider voting for David Cameron as PM to stop Ed Miliband.
1. I find this presentation of Mr Miliband as some terrifying Stalin figure rather difficult to accept. I hope the Conservatives are going to be able to come up with a positive case for voting blue.
It's about what the voters think. As the Lord Ashcroft polls show, David Cameron is preferred by a country mile to Ed Miliband, even amongst those who are dissatisfied with him.
I'm not delusional. I don't expect a Conservative landslide. But I do think this will have an effect next year once voters seriously start to contemplate the next government. Cameron is more popular than his party.
Kippers wouldn't let me and my partner marry if they had their way.
So they can stop bleating about others being authoritarian.
The point is that almost everyone is authoritarian, its just that they have different views on what is right and wrong... Self styled progressives are as authoritarian as anyone else
That's your point. My point is that kippers are the ones trying to tell me how to live my life in ways that are far more personal than any of the matters that they're whining on about.
Yes, and many people who disagree with you on other matters feel the same regarding their lives.. so as I said, almost everyone is authoritarian, it's just a case of what is important to them that dictates their bleeding heart
Except the point I'm making is far more personal than self-pity about eg "green crap". So you have to buy a vacuum cleaner with lower power? Well boo hoo hoo.
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Maybe a lot of people don't have the english middle class obsession with "race". What exactly does the name calling prove ?
I don't actually understand that comment. What are you saying that only the english middle class have a problem with race? What, as opposed to for example those with a view on race in Ulster?
Dear god you have reduced me to quoting from the Guardian.
Is this what you mean?
Please explain your comment?
Yeah, you have the english middle class fascination with stupid name calling. If you want to see real in your face racism there are loads of places it happens as your article shows.
You bandy the expression about without actually understanding what it means.
Imagine how black people across the world who have been treated in the most appalling ways because of racism must look on in disbelief when they hear some of the things that are considered to be under the same umbrella here
The country which is rated one of the least racist in the world apparently has the most racists.
Kippers wouldn't let me and my partner marry if they had their way.
So they can stop bleating about others being authoritarian.
The point is that almost everyone is authoritarian, its just that they have different views on what is right and wrong... Self styled progressives are as authoritarian as anyone else
That's your point. My point is that kippers are the ones trying to tell me how to live my life in ways that are far more personal than any of the matters that they're whining on about.
Yes, and many people who disagree with you on other matters feel the same regarding their lives.. so as I said, almost everyone is authoritarian, it's just a case of what is important to them that dictates their bleeding heart
Kippers wouldn't let me and my partner marry if they had their way.
So they can stop bleating about others being authoritarian.
The point is that almost everyone is authoritarian, its just that they have different views on what is right and wrong... Self styled progressives are as authoritarian as anyone else
That's your point. My point is that kippers are the ones trying to tell me how to live my life in ways that are far more personal than any of the matters that they're whining on about.
Yes, and many people who disagree with you on other matters feel the same regarding their lives.. so as I said, almost everyone is authoritarian, it's just a case of what is important to them that dictates their bleeding heart
Except the point I'm making is far more personal than self-pity about eg "green crap". So you have to buy a vacuum cleaner with lower power? Well boo hoo hoo.
The Green Party is the most authoritarian party of all.
You might like to listen to it. It's very entertaining as well as enlightening. It will if nothing else disabuse you of the notion that Isis are practising any form of Islam.
Kippers wouldn't let me and my partner marry if they had their way.
So they can stop bleating about others being authoritarian.
The point is that almost everyone is authoritarian, its just that they have different views on what is right and wrong... Self styled progressives are as authoritarian as anyone else
That's your point. My point is that kippers are the ones trying to tell me how to live my life in ways that are far more personal than any of the matters that they're whining on about.
Yes, and many people who disagree with you on other matters feel the same regarding their lives.. so as I said, almost everyone is authoritarian, it's just a case of what is important to them that dictates their bleeding heart
What does Antifrank want to stop you doing?
I'm not going to use the "poor me" technique when debating broader points, it cheapens the argument.
His point is off the mark anyway, as if UKIP were in power, he would still be married, and nothing would change
He probably wants me to stop luring him into bets that are good for me and bad for him, such as UKIP>LD 6/4
Correct my maths if needed but i work out the average point of those figures to come to something like;
Lab: 30% Con: 27% UKIP: 23% LD: 10% Green: 9%
Perhaps not a bad prediction?
The root ComRes numbers were:
Lab 34% Con 31% UKIP 19% LD 7% Green 4%
But your mid-point numbers look a lot more like their 'prompt for UKIP' poll, which is encouraging!
I'm not sure how seriously to take these figures, TBH. How was the question worded? They seem like 2nd order derivative voting intention questions to me. Effectively, "if there were a general election tomorrow, would you seriously consider voting for the following?"
Besides which, they might not pick up all prospective voters. I.e. there might be voters who wouldn't seriously consider voting 'Conservative', but would consider voting for David Cameron as PM to stop Ed Miliband.
1. I find this presentation of Mr Miliband as some terrifying Stalin figure rather difficult to accept. I hope the Conservatives are going to be able to come up with a positive case for voting blue.
It's about what the voters think. As the Lord Ashcroft polls show, David Cameron is preferred by a country mile to Ed Miliband, even amongst those who are dissatisfied with him.
I'm not delusional. I don't expect a Conservative landslide. But I do think this will have an effect next year once voters seriously start to contemplate the next government. Cameron is more popular than his party.
I don't accept that Mr Cameron is either popular, or more popular than his party. The recent ComRes favourable/unfavourable numbers had Mr Cameron exactly level with the Conservative Party: +25/-48.
Well quite. Though I think the world has enough cover versions of Red Red Wine...
It's up there with Unchained Melody [which I hate in all its incarnations] and C'est La Vie which I adore - the lyrics/arrangements change, but the tune stays the same.
I really, really, really don't get the fuss about this.
I assumed that UB40's [or DW40 as my mother called them] lead singer was black until I saw him.
Alex Clare is my #1 favourite artist right now and I presumed he was black given he does a very solid impersonation of Stevie Wonder. That he's a white, Jewish convert who was an estate agent in a former life is neither here nor there.
Why do people persist in trying to make it waaaycist? It always reminds me of a great joke in one of Colin Bateman's books [Divorcing Jack]. His black American contact uses the name Al Jolson. Just brilliant.
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
Havent heard it, don't want to either..
But the idea that it is racist if a singer does a bit of a carribean accent on a calypso style song is almost up there with Ed Miliband's nonsense re Lord Freud
If a Black West Indian sang a mod style song in a London accent I wouldn't mind at all, let alone the fact that there are many black Londoners, and white West Indians
So it is the "wacist" screamers who judge/divide things on colour.. I thought the point was there was no difference?
By these standards we should question anyone who isn't English reading Shakespearean dialogue in an English accent
UB40 is a very good example.
It is almost worth Mike Read making this, no doubt awful, tune to tempt people into mistakenly calling it racist & highlight their outrageous double standards
Its the kind of inflexible pre judgemental mindset that would see a white kid in 1970s South London forgetting to pay for something and the shopkeeper letting him pay later, but a black kid doing the same and getting a visit from the police (prob before he got home)
If people don't like UKIP, that's their choice, but to let the hatred warp their mind into irrational criticism of everything associated with UKIP is quite pitiful
I don't know the areas very well nowadays, but had it as my patch as a regional manager back in the early 90s. Well hard in many places, especially Gillingham.
Labour 50-1 is the story. What has happened to the leftish vote in Kent?
I still can't figure out Labour giving up on a big swathe of turf that has recently been their own.
Kent's a socially conservative sort of place, on both the left and right of politics. Millipede and his right-on Primrose Hill chums - to quote Morrissey - say nothing to them about their lives. Why UKIP are a big force in East Kent and the Medway Towns (which is "where you take northerners when they say southerners are soft").
I lived in Gillingham for a while - it was not a great area (but it was cheap!).
Sports day at our local primary was cancelled due to a number of syringes being found laying around.
A friend also saw someone shooting up at lunchtime in the pub by the station.
ah, the fun when Millwall turned up on match days too....................................
I mentioned the book Divorcing Jack upthread. It's a personal favourite of mine - the author created the marvellously dark pastiche of Crossmaheart - where the Catholic priest got a heart transplant in England - and discovered it came from a Protestant.
He's just glad to be alive - but his congregation desert him as he's no longer a Catholic in their eyes. This is just so perfect as an analogy for the stupidity of it all.
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage says @UKIP Calypso song " not racist.....it's clearly a bit of fun"
It's clearly...moronic, of course.
Why on earth would you want to invite even the merest hint of racism when enough people think you are racist to start with?
Beyond me. Either
a) very very clever; or b) very very well, you know...
Maybe a lot of people don't have the english middle class obsession with "race". What exactly does the name calling prove ?
I don't actually understand that comment. What are you saying that only the english middle class have a problem with race? What, as opposed to for example those with a view on race in Ulster?
Dear god you have reduced me to quoting from the Guardian.
Is this what you mean?
Please explain your comment?
the english middle class fascination with stupid name calling
This is the bit that I don't have the foggiest what it means.
What does it mean? Identifying things that are racist or that look like they are racist is an "english middle class fascination with stupid name calling"?
If someone calls someone a N****** is that racist or is the objection to it just an english middle class fascination with stupid name calling?
The latter. If they are kicking someone's head in at the same time as yelling it that's racism.
I agree with that. A major problem for the UK and indeed most western countries is the inability to impose effective taxes on multinationals operating within our country. The idea that Amazon, for example, is really not making a taxable profit is laughable and should not be tolerated.
They still engage in convoluted parent-child relationships with the EU parent corporation charging large sums for "services" to the Luxembourg child company, reducing it's paper profit, but then "loaning" a great deal of the money back to the child.
Then there's the strange situation where Amazon's thousand's of workers and massive warehouse and logistics operation in the UK doesn't count as permanent residence for tax purposes.
Correct my maths if needed but i work out the average point of those figures to come to something like;
Lab: 30% Con: 27% UKIP: 23% LD: 10% Green: 9%
Perhaps not a bad prediction?
The root ComRes numbers were:
Lab 34% Con 31% UKIP 19% LD 7% Green 4%
But your mid-point numbers look a lot more like their 'prompt for UKIP' poll, which is encouraging!
I'm not sure how seriously to take these figures, TBH. How was the question worded? They seem like 2nd order derivative voting intention questions to me. Effectively, "if there were a general election tomorrow, would you seriously consider voting for the following?"
Besides which, they might not pick up all prospective voters. I.e. there might be voters who wouldn't seriously consider voting 'Conservative', but would consider voting for David Cameron as PM to stop Ed Miliband.
1. I find this presentation of Mr Miliband as some terrifying Stalin figure rather difficult to accept. I hope the Conservatives are going to be able to come up with a positive case for voting blue.
It's about what the voters think. As the Lord Ashcroft polls show, David Cameron is preferred by a country mile to Ed Miliband, even amongst those who are dissatisfied with him.
I'm not delusional. I don't expect a Conservative landslide. But I do think this will have an effect next year once voters seriously start to contemplate the next government. Cameron is more popular than his party.
I don't accept that Mr Cameron is either popular, or more popular than his party. The recent ComRes favourable/unfavourable numbers had Mr Cameron exactly level with the Conservative Party: +25/-48.
But ISIS are just practising a form of Islam, no surprise to me.
Its instructive that Turkey, a supposedly modern cosmopolitan country, does not share the same horror of ISIS as us in the West.
I think Turkey's pitiful inaction over ISIS/Kobane was the coup de grace for their aspirations to join the EU (which were already looking quite futile).
It's never going to happen. They know it. We know it. And they know we know they know it.
Continued movements towards "eventual membership" are a charade.
But they have hardly been terribly loyal to their treaty and indeed 'moral' obligations to NATO either. A considerable pity given the long standing secular nature of their country. All of which pales into insignificance in the way Russia and China regularly buggerup the UN. It is the UN which was supposed to control and stop all of this sort of thing.
Comments
It's one of the few things SeanT and I agree about. (We also agree that the EU project is about Federalism, but as I regard that as inherently good and he regards it as inherently bad I'm not sure that counts as agreement.)
The EU we have now is so different to that which was put to the voters under Heath that there is an unacceptable democratic deficit in continuing without a 'b-your-leave- from the voters.
Like SeanT, I would happily accept the outcome, whatever it is. I suspect we would stay in, by a whisker, but the question should be asked.
So they can stop bleating about others being authoritarian.
Really?
What do you think? Would it be wrong if a Black West Indian sang a Beatle-esque song in an English accent? That seems to be the logic in criticising Mike Read
What is the difference?
begorrah.
theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/12/racism-northern-ireland-couple-tell-abuse-belfast
Dear god you have reduced me to quoting from the Guardian.
Is this what you mean?
Please explain your comment?
Your beliefs influence your view, I am surprised you cant see that
Would you mind a black West Indian singing a Beatle-esque tune in a faux English accent?
Racial equality means equality, not choosing what is right or wrong depending on racial origin
I assumed that UB40's [or DW40 as my mother called them] lead singer was black until I saw him.
Alex Clare is my #1 favourite artist right now and I presumed he was black given he does a very solid impersonation of Stevie Wonder. That he's a white, Jewish convert who was an estate agent in a former life is neither here nor there.
Why do people persist in trying to make it waaaycist? It always reminds me of a great joke in one of Colin Bateman's books [Divorcing Jack]. His black American contact uses the name Al Jolson. Just brilliant.
You bandy the expression about without actually understanding what it means.
I agree. As someone who has not decided which way I will vote, I'll decide based on the factors at the time.
But we should most definitely be asked.
What does it mean? Identifying things that are racist or that look like they are racist is an "english middle class fascination with stupid name calling"?
If someone calls someone a N****** is that racist or is the objection to it just an english middle class fascination with stupid name calling?
It is almost worth Mike Read making this, no doubt awful, tune to tempt people into mistakenly calling it racist & highlight their outrageous double standards
Its the kind of inflexible pre judgemental mindset that would see a white kid in 1970s South London forgetting to pay for something and the shopkeeper letting him pay later, but a black kid doing the same and getting a visit from the police (prob before he got home)
If people don't like UKIP, that's their choice, but to let the hatred warp their mind into irrational criticism of everything associated with UKIP is quite pitiful
2. Link to ComRes poll below.
http://www.comres.co.uk/poll/1293/sunday-mirror-independent-on-sunday-poll.htm
3.20 Wolverhampton: Little Belter.
I just got 4/1 with Betvictor, which will do nicely. There's eight runners so some ew value if you are so inclined and they don't pull one out.
Good luck etc...
One of her best, I'm going to ask for a framed copy.
Mostly because of your choice of suit for the big day.
Even Gerald Kaufman wouldn't be seen in that.
Its instructive that Turkey, a supposedly modern cosmopolitan country, does not share the same horror of ISIS as us in the West.
1. if they walk down the street and yell: "N*****" any objection to this is ridiculous english fascination with name calling; but
2. if they walk down the street, yell "N*****" and then go and smack the person concerned it is racism.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Oh, what if the person's feelings are hurt rather than his nose? Is that a new category or does that not matter?
With thanks for being so helpful.
I'm sure the last thing UKIP want is to be embraced by former Radio 1 DJ's. I fully expect Simon Bates to organise a 'bed push for UKIP' next.
Nothing particularly offensive or sinister about this, just so naff!
I'm not delusional. I don't expect a Conservative landslide. But I do think this will have an effect next year once voters seriously start to contemplate the next government. Cameron is more popular than his party.
Only the last Labour government has a worst record that Mike Read's latest offering.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325502/Map-shows-worlds-racist-countries-answers-surprise-you.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4288344/Britain-is-the-least-racist-country-in-Europe-says-equality-head-Trevor-Phillips.html
Christ, they have the world's worst drivers.
The drive from the airport was the scariest thing ever.
Also if pretty Russians ladies start talking to you, chances are she be a hooker, who will only tell you she's a hooker post coitus.
Then she'll introduce you to her pimp who is built like a brick shithouse.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04lpyhv
You might like to listen to it. It's very entertaining as well as enlightening. It will if nothing else disabuse you of the notion that Isis are practising any form of Islam.
His point is off the mark anyway, as if UKIP were in power, he would still be married, and nothing would change
He probably wants me to stop luring him into bets that are good for me and bad for him, such as UKIP>LD 6/4
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2014/09/27/comres-poll-farage-as-popular-as-cameron/
Mr Cameron is less unpopular than Messrs Clegg and Miliband. None of them are popular.
It's up there with Unchained Melody [which I hate in all its incarnations] and C'est La Vie which I adore - the lyrics/arrangements change, but the tune stays the same.
I've just discovered The Searchers' version of Love Potion No. 9 - it's brilliant. I assumed it was an Elkie Brookes song, or maybe Neil Diamond...
Sports day at our local primary was cancelled due to a number of syringes being found laying around.
A friend also saw someone shooting up at lunchtime in the pub by the station.
ah, the fun when Millwall turned up on match days too....................................
He's just glad to be alive - but his congregation desert him as he's no longer a Catholic in their eyes. This is just so perfect as an analogy for the stupidity of it all.
Then there's the strange situation where Amazon's thousand's of workers and massive warehouse and logistics operation in the UK doesn't count as permanent residence for tax purposes.
And try to avoid running into any snow ploughs.
(Too soon? Sorry)
All of which pales into insignificance in the way Russia and China regularly buggerup the UN. It is the UN which was supposed to control and stop all of this sort of thing.