Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.
as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
Get your financial advice here, roll up roll up
she's actually spot on. Years ago I did consultancy work for RM and it was quite clear the universal service was costing them business.
Competitors would undercut their price in the big cities and then just post via RM to for difficult to reach places. Scotland has mnost of the hard to reach places because of its geography.
Theough Black Douglas may explain differently of course.
Alan , I know the facts, does not hide fact that she is clueless and talking through her erchie. Letters etc are much reduced nowadays and we are already heavily discriminated against on parcels etc so can only be better.
your choices are pay more for the same service, differential pricing or government susbsidy.
London steal it all currently and make us pay for their failures , so win-win for us, we will get some money and no liabilities.
Actually the London Government borrows a lot of money every year at the moment (£2bn a week supposedly) of which £100m or so finds its way back to Scotland.
How will the Scottish Government make up that money to keep services going...
eek, we will not be funding wars , trident , London infrasructure to name just a few, we will save far more than that. Ireland gets BBC crap for 21M and we get stung 320M for that alone. We will not pay for the pig swill trough , HOL, champagne guzzling FO lackeys etc. I could go on all day.
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
Dickson is a foreigner so he can be forgiven for his ignorance but he was clearly mistaken.
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
there are no tanks in Baghdad
Stuart is just shit-stirring.
Tbf, there's a humungous amount of shit to be stirred.
as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
Lucrative for some. Of more relevance to most people in Scotland is that addresses in remote areas here are a larger proportion of all addresses. So operating a universal-delivery service in an independent Scotland will mean that postage prices will soar.
Well this is the point that business leaders like the JohnLewis boss were making the other day. If Scotland splits then the reality of doing business in a separate country, probably with a different currency, will take over. And these additional costs of doing business in Scotland will be passed onto Scottish consumers. Scaremongering of course.
Agreed completely, and most of the goods I buy mail-order come from south of the border. But even the price of sending a letter from one address in Edinburgh to another address in Edinburgh will soar if there is to be a single-rate universal delivery service in iScotland.
Leading 'Yes' campaigner in August:
"We can bring the Royal Mail back into public ownership, ensuring fair delivery charges in rural areas..."
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
No, the juries not out. It's preposterous to suggest that the Orange Order are allied to the neo-Nazi Klu Klux Klan. In fact, even the makers of the banner were careful to flag it as satire by putting a Sinn Féin logo on the top. But your loyalty to Mr Dickson is touching, if a little misconceived.
The Sinn Fein logo on the banner ought to be something of a giveaway.
No should be shouting about the bank deposit protection issue from the rooftops.
In a sense it already is, as the issue (government support and capital) is what is behind the banks plans to move south. An independent Scotland wouldn't have an economy large enough to support similar sized guarantees.
There's basically too much banking in Scotland for its size. I think something like 25% of UK retail banking is based in Scotland, but Scotland only makes up about 8% of population. So post-independence you would expect about two-thirds of Scottish banking to redomicile in the UK.
Exactly it is guarnteed by the BofE, they bailed those turkeys out once and they will do it the next time as well, helped by the FED of course as they don't really have the clout to do it themselves.
Baled out those Scottish turkeys, plucked for christmas by Scottish polititians. But leaving all that aside it is Salmonds policy to rely on the Bank of England for his currency. You had better ring him up and come up with some alternative.
As an aside, the banking sector is now better regulated by English polititians and have been building up their reserves anyway. Plus the likelyhood is there will not be a 'next time' and the newly redomiciled banks will pay back their loans and keep paying theor taxes - to the rUK treasury.
You turnip it has always been regulated by English politicians. Are you so stupid that you do not know it is all under UK regulations run from London.
as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
Lucrative for some. Of more relevance to most people in Scotland is that addresses in remote areas here are a larger proportion of all addresses. So operating a universal-delivery service in an independent Scotland will mean that postage prices will soar.
Well this is the point that business leaders like the JohnLewis boss were making the other day. If Scotland splits then the reality of doing business in a separate country, probably with a different currency, will take over. And these additional costs of doing business in Scotland will be passed onto Scottish consumers. Scaremongering of course.
Agreed completely, and most of the goods I buy mail-order come from south of the border. But even the price of sending a letter from one address in Edinburgh to another address in Edinburgh will soar if there is to be a single-rate universal delivery service in iScotland.
ooooooooooh we are trembling at the thought of being 20p out of pocket.
as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
Lucrative for some. Of more relevance to most people in Scotland is that addresses in remote areas here are a larger proportion of all addresses. So operating a universal-delivery service in an independent Scotland will mean that postage prices will soar.
Well this is the point that business leaders like the JohnLewis boss were making the other day. If Scotland splits then the reality of doing business in a separate country, probably with a different currency, will take over. And these additional costs of doing business in Scotland will be passed onto Scottish consumers. Scaremongering of course.
Agreed completely, and most of the goods I buy mail-order come from south of the border. But even the price of sending a letter from one address in Edinburgh to another address in Edinburgh will soar if there is to be a single-rate universal delivery service in iScotland.
Leading 'Yes' campaigner in August:
"We can bring the Royal Mail back into public ownership, ensuring fair delivery charges in rural areas..."
So that's another £0.33 billion in Scots public spending, by rough calculation given Scotland has 8% of UK population and RM is valued at £4.3 billion.
Wow. Some of us have been warning about the abuse of postal votes for a very long time, but if it turns out there has been vote-rigging bundled up in the political cover-up of child abuse, it could be explosive.
PS. How many weeks is it after Rotherham and Professor Jay's warning that it likely happened in other towns, and still no action from Downing Street?
To paraphrase Clive Tyldsley re Wayne Rooney vs Arsenal
I think that all it shows is that people who will vote no have been cowed into silence and that online polls may be vulnerable to activist entryism when feelings are running high.
In the current atmosphere many people will be reluctant to admit "no" even in a phone poll as a family member or other person may hear them, eg a child who then goes off to school and tells other people, resulting in unwanted "attention". I suspect in some places people found to be voting "no" will be treated like strikebreakers in the miners strike and ostracised afterwards, so best keep shtum.
I wonder how opinion pollsters would have got on in the 1933 election in Germany, my guess is that the NSDAP vote would have been seriously over estimated for much the same reasons
No even that - with the climate of fear and reprisal that will inevitably ensue, wouldn't you be worried about information you confidentially gave to a pollster somehow getting into the wrong hands after a Yes vote? Personally I wouldn't take the risk and would keep my head down right up until I'm in the safety of the polling booth.
Indeed, but after a Yes vote I don't think I would have a lot to fear other than mockery. I would be more worried of people knowing if the No vote won (especilly if very close) and I lived in an urban area infested with knuckle dragging Yes'ites.
I'm not predicting brownshirt thuggery, but I suspect you would be ostracised like a strikebreaking miner in the Yorkshire coalfield after the miners strike and your life made a similar misery.
There is also the fact that people within families may be enthusiastic yessers and you don't want to disturb domestic harmony, not to mention if you work in the public sector.
In such a situation it is wisest, as you say, to support Yes until you are safely in the polling booth.
When Fatface and co. discover that tomorrow dosen't belong to them after all it will be amusing to watch down here, but not so much if you regularly frequent a working class Glasgow pub.
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
there are no tanks in Baghdad
More NO campaign scare-tactics: "There are no banks in Edinburgh!"
Paul Oakley UKIP @PaulJamesOakley 5m UKIP Yorkshire MEP gets death threats for having the audacity to speak out about Rotherham child abuse scandal http://dly.st/Xgfd2G
But we do have sectarianism and we know were most of it comes from.
Ukip 3/1 to win Rotherham is a great bet
They were on 21% in 2012 when none of this scandal was in the news
I can't believe the people of Rotherham would be crazy enough to re elect the people who stood by and let it all happen ... It can't be a 75% chance in my book
What would UKIP do to prevent it happening again?
That is the question the good citizens of Rotherham should be asking all the political parties.
If they did anything at all on a national level it would be better than the complete inaction of this government. If Rotherham-scale abuse has been replicated in another six or seven towns, the number of children abused in this country will be ten times official estimates.
Cameron has called for inquiries into abuse at Westminster, the newspapers, trade union activities, colonial abuses in British India, letters sent to IRA suspects, and business tourism. Yet nothing on the largest crime wave of child rape and torture we've ever known in this country. Why?
Unless something major is announced soon, it shows David Cameron is seriously lacking in basic moral fibre. A complete neglect of duty as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.
Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.
as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
Get your financial advice here, roll up roll up
she's actually spot on. Years ago I did consultancy work for RM and it was quite clear the universal service was costing them business.
Competitors would undercut their price in the big cities and then just post via RM to for difficult to reach places. Scotland has mnost of the hard to reach places because of its geography.
Theough Black Douglas may explain differently of course.
Alan , I know the facts, does not hide fact that she is clueless and talking through her erchie. Letters etc are much reduced nowadays and we are already heavily discriminated against on parcels etc so can only be better.
Letters are much reduced because of broadband. Broadband? That think which is dificult and expensive if not impossible in remore areas? Bit like mobile phones. And then there is the parcel delivery to remote areas when you buy on line.
But you are not interested. You are a biased Nat only interested in living in Wonderland. Truth and reality have no meaning. And this board is only a platform for your bile and propaganda .
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
there are no tanks in Baghdad
Stuart is just shit-stirring.
Oh I know that Sean, but he's stirred a bit too hard and now it's come out of the bowl and fallen on top of him :-)
as I said a few days back the Indy arguments have been settled about six months ago
Unionists win economics ( Nat - no show ) Nats win hearts ( Unionists C- )
really all there is to do now is troll idiocy while we wait for the vote.
Paul Oakley UKIP @PaulJamesOakley 5m UKIP Yorkshire MEP gets death threats for having the audacity to speak out about Rotherham child abuse scandal http://dly.st/Xgfd2G
But we do have sectarianism and we know were most of it comes from.
Ukip 3/1 to win Rotherham is a great bet
They were on 21% in 2012 when none of this scandal was in the news
I can't believe the people of Rotherham would be crazy enough to re elect the people who stood by and let it all happen ... It can't be a 75% chance in my book
What would UKIP do to prevent it happening again?
That is the question the good citizens of Rotherham should be asking all the political parties.
That's as maybe, I'm more interested in the betting,
I can't imagine people that have seen the children of the town raped by political correctness and multiculturalism voting for it again... Ukip are the main challengers and are seen as being against those theories, so I think they have a better than 25% chance of winning
So you care more about betting than the victims, and preventing future victims?
Dontyalove'em? A burka and a lab coat seems a little redundant to me...
A woman believed to be a British medical student who left the UK in order to join ISIS has posted an image on social media of herself holding a severed head.
The woman, who goes by the Twitter name of Mujahidah Bint Usama, claims to be a doctor for the terror group based in Raqqa, Syria.
In the image, which was used as her profile picture but has since been removed, she can be seen wearing a full burka and white lab coat while holding the head of a middle-aged man.
To the left of the image, two children can be seen standing beside her.
""'We have seen nothing yet' is a phrase that we could with advantage repeat to ourselves whenever we try to form a picture of that future.. there lies the certainty of violence on a scale which can only adequately be described as civil war".
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
No, the juries not out. It's preposterous to suggest that the Orange Order are allied to the neo-Nazi Klu Klux Klan. In fact, even the makers of the banner were careful to flag it as satire by putting a Sinn Féin logo on the top. But your loyalty to Mr Dickson is touching, if a little misconceived.
Thanks, that was what I was asking - if that is a SF logo or not, you've cleared that up.
Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.
as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
Get your financial advice here, roll up roll up
she's actually spot on. Years ago I did consultancy work for RM and it was quite clear the universal service was costing them business.
Competitors would undercut their price in the big cities and then just post via RM to for difficult to reach places. Scotland has mnost of the hard to reach places because of its geography.
Theough Black Douglas may explain differently of course.
Alan , I know the facts, does not hide fact that she is clueless and talking through her erchie. Letters etc are much reduced nowadays and we are already heavily discriminated against on parcels etc so can only be better.
your choices are pay more for the same service, differential pricing or government susbsidy.
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
No, the juries not out. It's preposterous to suggest that the Orange Order are allied to the neo-Nazi Klu Klux Klan. In fact, even the makers of the banner were careful to flag it as satire by putting a Sinn Féin logo on the top. But your loyalty to Mr Dickson is touching, if a little misconceived.
Thanks, that was what I was asking - if that is a SF logo or not, you've cleared that up.
Methinks he is a bit too knowledgeable on this type of thing , makes you wonder
"Scottish Labour is potentially on its death bed and if the country breaks up, the principle responsibility will be on them. From the Blair era onwards, the Iraq War, the collapse in credibility and confidence in the British state, not just in Scotland but through Farage and so on in the rest of the country, the pitiful, absolutely pitiful, job that’s been made of defending a 300-year-old relationship in this island by the Scottish Labour leadership is really terrible for me to behold, even though I’m no longer one of them ...
Without a doubt the number of Labour voters intending to vote Yes is disturbingly high. That’s a grave squandering of a great legacy of Scottish Labour history which history will decree as unpardonable, unforgivable.
Now, if Labour is to get out of its deathbed in Scotland, whatever the result, it’s going to have to become Labour again – real Labour again. I’m ready to help them with that and my goodness they need help with it."
Please stop interminably bringing irrelevant sports issues to the discussion...
How about in the event of a too close to call result we put Salmond up against Cameron? ITV wrestling rules - Independence to be decided by two falls two submissions or a knockout.
Alan, as we well know more than 95% of their staff work outside Scotland and their real HQ has been in London for many many years.
actually about 10% of RBS worldwide employees work in Scotland. 11,500 out of 118,000. You'll lose about 2000-2500 of those jobs in pretty in short order.
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
there are no tanks in Baghdad
Stuart is just shit-stirring.
Oh I know that Sean, but he's stirred a bit too hard and now it's come out of the bowl and fallen on top of him :-)
as I said a few days back the Indy arguments have been settled about six months ago
Unionists win economics ( Nat - no show ) Nats win hearts ( Unionists C- )
really all there is to do now is troll idiocy while we wait for the vote.
BT better hope there are at least a million "SHY" NO voters, publicly it is a desert for NO.
Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.
as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
Get your financial advice here, roll up roll up
she's actually spot on. Years ago I did consultancy work for RM and it was quite clear the universal service was costing them business.
Competitors would undercut their price in the big cities and then just post via RM to for difficult to reach places. Scotland has mnost of the hard to reach places because of its geography.
Theough Black Douglas may explain differently of course.
Alan , I know the facts, does not hide fact that she is clueless and talking through her erchie. Letters etc are much reduced nowadays and we are already heavily discriminated against on parcels etc so can only be better.
Letters are much reduced because of broadband. Broadband? That think which is dificult and expensive if not impossible in remore areas? Bit like mobile phones. And then there is the parcel delivery to remote areas when you buy on line.
But you are not interested. You are a biased Nat only interested in living in Wonderland. Truth and reality have no meaning. And this board is only a platform for your bile and propaganda .
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
there are no tanks in Baghdad
Stuart is just shit-stirring.
Oh I know that Sean, but he's stirred a bit too hard and now it's come out of the bowl and fallen on top of him :-)
as I said a few days back the Indy arguments have been settled about six months ago
Unionists win economics ( Nat - no show ) Nats win hearts ( Unionists C- )
really all there is to do now is troll idiocy while we wait for the vote.
BT better hope there are at least a million "SHY" NO voters, publicly it is a desert for NO.
it's not the bit of paper you stick on a lamppost that counts, it;s the one you put a cross on at the ballot box.
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
there are no tanks in Baghdad
Stuart is just shit-stirring.
Oh I know that Sean, but he's stirred a bit too hard and now it's come out of the bowl and fallen on top of him :-)
as I said a few days back the Indy arguments have been settled about six months ago
Unionists win economics ( Nat - no show ) Nats win hearts ( Unionists C- )
really all there is to do now is troll idiocy while we wait for the vote.
BT better hope there are at least a million "SHY" NO voters, publicly it is a desert for NO.
Your side has done a brilliant job of ensuring that many No voters are 'shy'. This may come as a shock but a lot of people don't appreciate being harangued.
Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.
as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
Get your financial advice here, roll up roll up
she's actually spot on. Years ago I did consultancy work for RM and it was quite clear the universal service was costing them business.
Competitors would undercut their price in the big cities and then just post via RM to for difficult to reach places. Scotland has most of the hard to reach places because of its geography.
Though Black Douglas may explain differently of course.
Yes, that was always the flaw in opening the market to competition. Incomers cherry-pick the most profitable services and ignore the least-profitable ones. In this limited sense, they are more efficient. The corollary of this is that the state provider loses those profits which previously cross-subsidised the loss-making, "social obligation" services. Not just in post and parcel delivery but also in health and communications.
Alan, as we well know more than 95% of their staff work outside Scotland and their real HQ has been in London for many many years.
actually about 10% of RBS worldwide employees work in Scotland. 11,500 out of 118,000. You'll lose about 2000-2500 of those jobs in pretty in short order.
Alan, I doubt it but you know more about business than me
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
there are no tanks in Baghdad
Stuart is just shit-stirring.
Oh I know that Sean, but he's stirred a bit too hard and now it's come out of the bowl and fallen on top of him :-)
as I said a few days back the Indy arguments have been settled about six months ago
Unionists win economics ( Nat - no show ) Nats win hearts ( Unionists C- )
really all there is to do now is troll idiocy while we wait for the vote.
BT better hope there are at least a million "SHY" NO voters, publicly it is a desert for NO.
it's not the bit of paper you stick on a lamppost that counts, it;s the one you put a cross on at the ballot box.
Paul Oakley UKIP @PaulJamesOakley 5m UKIP Yorkshire MEP gets death threats for having the audacity to speak out about Rotherham child abuse scandal http://dly.st/Xgfd2G
But we do have sectarianism and we know were most of it comes from.
Ukip 3/1 to win Rotherham is a great bet
They were on 21% in 2012 when none of this scandal was in the news
I can't believe the people of Rotherham would be crazy enough to re elect the people who stood by and let it all happen ... It can't be a 75% chance in my book
What would UKIP do to prevent it happening again?
That is the question the good citizens of Rotherham should be asking all the political parties.
If they did anything at all on a national level it would be better than the complete inaction of this government. If Rotherham-scale abuse has been replicated in another six or seven towns, the number of children abused in this country will be ten times official estimates.
Cameron has called for inquiries into abuse at Westminster, the newspapers, trade union activities, colonial abuses in British India, letters sent to IRA suspects, and business tourism. Yet nothing on the largest crime wave of child rape and torture we've ever known in this country. Why?
Unless something major is announced soon, it shows David Cameron is seriously lacking in basic moral fibre. A complete neglect of duty as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.
Sorry too busy, those ungrateful jocks come first. Poor english kids way down the order of importance to westminster.
Dontyalove'em? A burka and a lab coat seems a little redundant to me...
A woman believed to be a British medical student who left the UK in order to join ISIS has posted an image on social media of herself holding a severed head.
The woman, who goes by the Twitter name of Mujahidah Bint Usama, claims to be a doctor for the terror group based in Raqqa, Syria.
In the image, which was used as her profile picture but has since been removed, she can be seen wearing a full burka and white lab coat while holding the head of a middle-aged man.
To the left of the image, two children can be seen standing beside her.
""'We have seen nothing yet' is a phrase that we could with advantage repeat to ourselves whenever we try to form a picture of that future.. there lies the certainty of violence on a scale which can only adequately be described as civil war".
Trouble is it's in the Mail They might be telling the unvarnished truth of course.
Wow. Some of us have been warning about the abuse of postal votes for a very long time, but if it turns out there has been vote-rigging bundled up in the political cover-up of child abuse, it could be explosive.
PS. How many weeks is it after Rotherham and Professor Jay's warning that it likely happened in other towns, and still no action from Downing Street?
Akhtar did not get 5000 postal votes. He only received 1528 in total. The Daily Star is wrong.
Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.
as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
Get your financial advice here, roll up roll up
she's actually spot on. Years ago I did consultancy work for RM and it was quite clear the universal service was costing them business.
Competitors would undercut their price in the big cities and then just post via RM to for difficult to reach places. Scotland has most of the hard to reach places because of its geography.
Though Black Douglas may explain differently of course.
Yes, that was always the flaw in opening the market to competition. Incomers cherry-pick the most profitable services and ignore the least-profitable ones. In this limited sense, they are more efficient. The corollary of this is that the state provider loses those profits which previously cross-subsidised the loss-making, "social obligation" services. Not just in post and parcel delivery but also in health and communications.
Having sold it off the Tory parasites will help their pals and end social obligations in any case, so no matter what happens we will be paying lots more. All these supposed plagues and pestilence are coming from the Tories in any case so it cannot be any worse voting YES, people understand that and hope that some changes can be made and some of the planned Tory atrocities toned down a bit.
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
there are no tanks in Baghdad
Stuart is just shit-stirring.
Oh I know that Sean, but he's stirred a bit too hard and now it's come out of the bowl and fallen on top of him :-)
as I said a few days back the Indy arguments have been settled about six months ago
Unionists win economics ( Nat - no show ) Nats win hearts ( Unionists C- )
really all there is to do now is troll idiocy while we wait for the vote.
BT better hope there are at least a million "SHY" NO voters, publicly it is a desert for NO.
Your side has done a brilliant job of ensuring that many No voters are 'shy'. This may come as a shock but a lot of people don't appreciate being harangued.
Whiny victimhood based on unfounded hysteria, at last PB Kippers and PB Tories are in consensus. Perhaps it can be the basis for a coalition.
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
there are no tanks in Baghdad
Stuart is just shit-stirring.
Oh I know that Sean, but he's stirred a bit too hard and now it's come out of the bowl and fallen on top of him :-)
as I said a few days back the Indy arguments have been settled about six months ago
Unionists win economics ( Nat - no show ) Nats win hearts ( Unionists C- )
really all there is to do now is troll idiocy while we wait for the vote.
BT better hope there are at least a million "SHY" NO voters, publicly it is a desert for NO.
Your side has done a brilliant job of ensuring that many No voters are 'shy'. This may come as a shock but a lot of people don't appreciate being harangued.
LOL, that from the mob that beat up 80 year olds and bottle young girls
Quebec - opinion polls wrong because browbeaten No voters lied to them:
"Given the heated atmosphere of the referendum campaign, voters who opposed independence may have been differentially disposed not to respond to polls, and, when they did respond, may have misreported their voting intentions," wrote John Fox, Robert Anderson and Joseph Dubonnet in a paper for the Canadian Journal of Sociology.
Wow. Some of us have been warning about the abuse of postal votes for a very long time, but if it turns out there has been vote-rigging bundled up in the political cover-up of child abuse, it could be explosive.
PS. How many weeks is it after Rotherham and Professor Jay's warning that it likely happened in other towns, and still no action from Downing Street?
Akhtar did not get 5000 postal votes. He only received 1528 in total. The Daily Star is wrong.
Right, since we're approaching showtime, a round up of my indy bets for the record.
Antifrank £50 at evens to charity that Yes will be 40% or above Mark Senior £25 at evens that Yes will be 40% or above Pulpstar £100 at 4/9 Yes win Tim £50 at evens that Salmond would be ahead of Darling in Ipsos approval ratings by referendum Tim £100 at 9/4 Yes win SeanT £100 at evens Yes win
If I've mis-remembered any of the details let me know.
Yes, thanks for that bet, it enabled me to put £50 on YES at the bookies at, I think, 4/1, meaning I make money whoever wins.
I've already won £25 from TSE on indyref-related matters.
Btw I think YES is now marginally more likely to win than NO. I'm not calling it that way, it's still too close and chaotic. But that's my reading of the Scottish mood.
NO needs a lot of people to get the heebie-jeebs when they enter the privacy of the polling booth.
Cool, everyone makes money on a Yes. You should be hammering on the Betfair Yes price if you think the outcome is that marginal.
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
there are no tanks in Baghdad
Stuart is just shit-stirring.
Oh I know that Sean, but he's stirred a bit too hard and now it's come out of the bowl and fallen on top of him :-)
as I said a few days back the Indy arguments have been settled about six months ago
Unionists win economics ( Nat - no show ) Nats win hearts ( Unionists C- )
really all there is to do now is troll idiocy while we wait for the vote.
BT better hope there are at least a million "SHY" NO voters, publicly it is a desert for NO.
Your side has done a brilliant job of ensuring thatarangued.
Whiny victimhood based on unfounded hysteria, at last PB Kippers and PB Tories are in consensus. Perhaps it can be the basis for a coalition.
Whiny victimhood based on unfounded hysteria
looking at the threads from the last week or so I don't think either side has a monopoly on that.
maybe we should just call it a national characteristic ;-)
I have in the past worked seats where the LibDems have made all the running on leaflets and if you went by activity and posters, they were romping home to a landslide. Count the votes on the day though, and they are a poor third. I still suspect we will witness this effect on Thursday. A small percentage are making all the noise. The great majority are saying nothing.
Dontyalove'em? A burka and a lab coat seems a little redundant to me...
A woman believed to be a British medical student who left the UK in order to join ISIS has posted an image on social media of herself holding a severed head.
The woman, who goes by the Twitter name of Mujahidah Bint Usama, claims to be a doctor for the terror group based in Raqqa, Syria.
In the image, which was used as her profile picture but has since been removed, she can be seen wearing a full burka and white lab coat while holding the head of a middle-aged man.
To the left of the image, two children can be seen standing beside her.
""'We have seen nothing yet' is a phrase that we could with advantage repeat to ourselves whenever we try to form a picture of that future.. there lies the certainty of violence on a scale which can only adequately be described as civil war".
Trouble is it's in the Mail They might be telling the unvarnished truth of course.
The horrible old racist Daily Mail that got Stephen Lawrences killers banged up?
Yeah she's probably a humanitarian aid worker.. they seem to be appreciated by British muslims in the middle East
Wow. Some of us have been warning about the abuse of postal votes for a very long time, but if it turns out there has been vote-rigging bundled up in the political cover-up of child abuse, it could be explosive.
PS. How many weeks is it after Rotherham and Professor Jay's warning that it likely happened in other towns, and still no action from Downing Street?
Akhtar did not get 5000 postal votes. He only received 1528 in total. The Daily Star is wrong.
The result was
AKHTAR Jahangir
Labour Party Candidate
1528
MAHMOOD Sarah Kiran
Respect (George Galloway)
217
MARSHALL Marilyn
The Conservative Party Candidate
248
VINES Maureen
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
1567 Elected
Probably a misprint of 500 I guess
Doesn't really matter
No facts and truth matter little to UKIP supporters .
Wow. Some of us have been warning about the abuse of postal votes for a very long time, but if it turns out there has been vote-rigging bundled up in the political cover-up of child abuse, it could be explosive.
PS. How many weeks is it after Rotherham and Professor Jay's warning that it likely happened in other towns, and still no action from Downing Street?
Akhtar did not get 5000 postal votes. He only received 1528 in total. The Daily Star is wrong.
The Daily Star is wrong. That's a sentence you don't often read on pb.
Whoever's side we're on, and whether you agree with this article or not, can we at least agree that there is a bigger geopolitical strategy at play here than simply 'the civillians' or 'the war on terror'?
Wow. Some of us have been warning about the abuse of postal votes for a very long time, but if it turns out there has been vote-rigging bundled up in the political cover-up of child abuse, it could be explosive.
PS. How many weeks is it after Rotherham and Professor Jay's warning that it likely happened in other towns, and still no action from Downing Street?
Akhtar did not get 5000 postal votes. He only received 1528 in total. The Daily Star is wrong.
The result was
AKHTAR Jahangir
Labour Party Candidate
1528
MAHMOOD Sarah Kiran
Respect (George Galloway)
217
MARSHALL Marilyn
The Conservative Party Candidate
248
VINES Maureen
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
1567 Elected
Why bother ? Those who want to believe it [ and there are plenty here ] will believe it anyway.
Like Tower Hamlets is the capital of postal votes in London. Whereas Bromley beats TH by thousands.
Wow. Some of us have been warning about the abuse of postal votes for a very long time, but if it turns out there has been vote-rigging bundled up in the political cover-up of child abuse, it could be explosive.
PS. How many weeks is it after Rotherham and Professor Jay's warning that it likely happened in other towns, and still no action from Downing Street?
Akhtar did not get 5000 postal votes. He only received 1528 in total. The Daily Star is wrong.
And on the list of nationalities currently given visas to the UK, second is Pakistan and sixth is Saudi Arabia. I'm sure that won't lead to more of these problems in future.
Dontyalove'em? A burka and a lab coat seems a little redundant to me...
A woman believed to be a British medical student who left the UK in order to join ISIS has posted an image on social media of herself holding a severed head.
The woman, who goes by the Twitter name of Mujahidah Bint Usama, claims to be a doctor for the terror group based in Raqqa, Syria.
In the image, which was used as her profile picture but has since been removed, she can be seen wearing a full burka and white lab coat while holding the head of a middle-aged man.
To the left of the image, two children can be seen standing beside her.
""'We have seen nothing yet' is a phrase that we could with advantage repeat to ourselves whenever we try to form a picture of that future.. there lies the certainty of violence on a scale which can only adequately be described as civil war".
LOL, that from the mob that beat up 80 year olds and bottle young girls
Please don't cherry pick individual 'events' to try and and muddy the waters and create some kind of equivalence. The entire tone of the yes campaign is stridently obnoxious. 'No' don't have a 'convince a granny' strategy where vile people try and browbeat the elderly into changing their vote (which they may be doing to try and protect their pensions), 'No' don't have a frogmarch to freedom strategy to get people to the polling stations etc etc etc.
London steal it all currently and make us pay for their failures , so win-win for us, we will get some money and no liabilities.
Actually the London Government borrows a lot of money every year at the moment (£2bn a week supposedly) of which £100m or so finds its way back to Scotland.
How will the Scottish Government make up that money to keep services going...
eek, we will not be funding wars , trident , London infrasructure to name just a few, we will save far more than that. Ireland gets BBC crap for 21M and we get stung 320M for that alone. We will not pay for the pig swill trough , HOL, champagne guzzling FO lackeys etc. I could go on all day.
Good to hear that you won't be funding wars. That's a sensible decision because you know that there's diddly squat you can do to stop the UK taking an equivalent share of Scottish assets if Scotland really does follow through on Salmond's threat not to pay Scotland's share of the UK's national debt. To make things simple, the UK could just appropriate Shetland and the territorial waters around it in perpetuity, and have done with it.
LOL, that from the mob that beat up 80 year olds and bottle young girls
Please don't cherry pick individual 'events' to try and and muddy the waters and create some kind of equivalence. The entire tone of the yes campaign is stridently obnoxious. 'No' don't have a 'convince a granny' strategy where vile people try and browbeat the elderly into changing their vote (which they may be doing to try and protect their pensions), 'No' don't have a frogmarch to freedom strategy to get people to the polling stations etc etc etc.
Another excellent post. I meant to give you kudos yesterday.
Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.
as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
Get your financial advice here, roll up roll up
she's actually spot on. Years ago I did consultancy work for RM and it was quite clear the universal service was costing them business.
Competitors would undercut their price in the big cities and then just post via RM to for difficult to reach places. Scotland has most of the hard to reach places because of its geography.
Though Black Douglas may explain differently of course.
Yes, that was always the flaw in opening the market to competition. Incomers cherry-pick the most profitable services and ignore the least-profitable ones. In this limited sense, they are more efficient. The corollary of this is that the state provider loses those profits which previously cross-subsidised the loss-making, "social obligation" services. Not just in post and parcel delivery but also in health and communications.
Having sold it off the Tory parasites will help their pals and end social obligations in any case, so no matter what happens we will be paying lots more. All these supposed plagues and pestilence are coming from the Tories in any case so it cannot be any worse voting YES, people understand that and hope that some changes can be made and some of the planned Tory atrocities toned down a bit.
There are a couple of ironies here, whether the sales are made by Tories or New Labour. The first is that the victims are often the erstwhile supporters of those parties. Rural communities tend to vote Conservative, for instance. Another is that the markets soon come to be dominated not by thrusting, British entrepreneurs but by large foreign companies who repatriate their profits: a loss of tax revenue and an invisible import as a double whammy.
This referendum is starting to look like Cleggmania from 2010 all over again. The debate, the big switch in the polls, the momentum then stalling and a result....... not that dissimilar to what was predicted in the first place.
The last bit is pure guesswork. I'm guessing 54-46 split though.
LOL, that from the mob that beat up 80 year olds and bottle young girls
Please don't cherry pick individual 'events' to try and and muddy the waters and create some kind of equivalence. The entire tone of the yes campaign is stridently obnoxious. 'No' don't have a 'convince a granny' strategy where vile people try and browbeat the elderly into changing their vote (which they may be doing to try and protect their pensions), 'No' don't have a frogmarch to freedom strategy to get people to the polling stations etc etc etc.
LOL, so you just make something up in your fevered imagination , vague bullshit innuendo and I give you real violent occurences and you start wittering on about cherry picking. Just because YES people will go happily to vote and want a carnival atmosphere does not make BT's doom and gloom dread laden drudgery what everyone should aspire to. You are sad losers , losing sadly and some of you will trudge sadly to vote on Thursday , many others will whinge for years about imaginary intimidation making it impossible for them to try and vote their country down. No hope versus ambition and vision.
Wow. Some of us have been warning about the abuse of postal votes for a very long time, but if it turns out there has been vote-rigging bundled up in the political cover-up of child abuse, it could be explosive.
PS. How many weeks is it after Rotherham and Professor Jay's warning that it likely happened in other towns, and still no action from Downing Street?
Akhtar did not get 5000 postal votes. He only received 1528 in total. The Daily Star is wrong.
The result was
AKHTAR Jahangir
Labour Party Candidate
1528
MAHMOOD Sarah Kiran
Respect (George Galloway)
217
MARSHALL Marilyn
The Conservative Party Candidate
248
VINES Maureen
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
1567 Elected
Why bother ? Those who want to believe it [ and there are plenty here ] will believe it anyway.
Like Tower Hamlets is the capital of postal votes in London. Whereas Bromley beats TH by thousands.
LOL, that from the mob that beat up 80 year olds and bottle young girls
Please don't cherry pick individual 'events' to try and and muddy the waters and create some kind of equivalence. The entire tone of the yes campaign is stridently obnoxious. 'No' don't have a 'convince a granny' strategy where vile people try and browbeat the elderly into changing their vote (which they may be doing to try and protect their pensions), 'No' don't have a frogmarch to freedom strategy to get people to the polling stations etc etc etc.
LOL, so you just make something up in your fevered imagination , vague bullshit innuendo and I give you real violent occurences and you start wittering on about cherry picking. Just because YES people will go happily to vote and want a carnival atmosphere does not make BT's doom and gloom dread laden drudgery what everyone should aspire to. You are sad losers , losing sadly and some of you will trudge sadly to vote on Thursday , many others will whinge for years about imaginary intimidation making it impossible for them to try and vote their country down. No hope versus ambition and vision.
Idiot UKIP Scottish MEP Coburn was on this morning saying folk were putting Yes signs in their window to avoid being attacked. The hysteria obviously drips down from the top (if Coburn can be described as the top of anything).
London steal it all currently and make us pay for their failures , so win-win for us, we will get some money and no liabilities.
Actually the London Government borrows a lot of money every year at the moment (£2bn a week supposedly) of which £100m or so finds its way back to Scotland.
How will the Scottish Government make up that money to keep services going...
eek, we will not be funding wars , trident , London infrasructure to name just a few, we will save far more than that. Ireland gets BBC crap for 21M and we get stung 320M for that alone. We will not pay for the pig swill trough , HOL, champagne guzzling FO lackeys etc. I could go on all day.
Good to hear that you won't be funding wars. That's a sensible decision because you know that there's diddly squat you can do to stop the UK taking an equivalent share of Scottish assets if Scotland really does follow through on Salmond's threat not to pay Scotland's share of the UK's national debt. To make things simple, the UK could just appropriate Shetland and the territorial waters around it in perpetuity, and have done with it.
That must be the thickest post of the day which is an incredible feat , you think they will mange to get a surface ship up that far, it will be a first
1) Your comment Jahangir Akhtar was defamatory then, and could get Mike Smithson into trouble
2) You appear to have forgotten you are not permitted to talk about the events of Rotherham and or grooming.
Fair enough re the Labour councillor/taxi firm owner, but I don't get why I cant talk about Rotherham.. I reacted to trolling from Hugh... but that aside why not?
Anyway, all I did was say UKIP were a good bet at 3/1 given what has gone on, and tried not to talk about anything else, and for that I was accused of not caring about preventing child abuse via smug comments from @JosiasJessop.. what am I meant to do? Let people think he is right?
LOL, that from the mob that beat up 80 year olds and bottle young girls
Please don't cherry pick individual 'events' to try and and muddy the waters and create some kind of equivalence. The entire tone of the yes campaign is stridently obnoxious. 'No' don't have a 'convince a granny' strategy where vile people try and browbeat the elderly into changing their vote (which they may be doing to try and protect their pensions), 'No' don't have a frogmarch to freedom strategy to get people to the polling stations etc etc etc.
LOL, so you just make something up in your fevered imagination , vague bullshit innuendo and I give you real violent occurences and you start wittering on about cherry picking. Just because YES people will go happily to vote and want a carnival atmosphere does not make BT's doom and gloom dread laden drudgery what everyone should aspire to. You are sad losers , losing sadly and some of you will trudge sadly to vote on Thursday , many others will whinge for years about imaginary intimidation making it impossible for them to try and vote their country down. No hope versus ambition and vision.
I'm afraid you're completely failing (as an entire campaign) to see yourselves as others see you. All these websites talking to each other and becoming pickled in your own views -it's not surprising. A yes voter in my office the other day (the only one trying to convince everyone with her loud passive aggressive opining for yes -every office has one) was saying how angry she was that old people might get no over the line, and that they shouldn't be so selfish because they only had 15 years or so left to live. She couldn't see (and no one told her) what an utterly callous cow she was being. Every standard is subsumed in 'yes'.
Malcolm you were warned this morning about swearing at other posters, and you've just ignored that again.
As the site is going to be unmodereated for the next few hours, your ability to instantly publish has been revoked.
You mean Malcolm has been being moderated previously? I'm incredulous!
I'd half assumed that he is an individual satiring Scots Nationalism who is finding it very difficult to come up with new material since the moderators seem to be allowing him to post almost anything without complaint!
Whoever's side we're on, and whether you agree with this article or not, can we at least agree that there is a bigger geopolitical strategy at play here than simply 'the civillians' or 'the war on terror'?
What's frustrating about this is that not only is there this huge media taboo on talking about the strategic reasons for wars until about 30 years after the wars are over meaning there's hardly anything from "mainstream" sources, most of the non-mainstream people who do talk about them are nuts.
LOL, that from the mob that beat up 80 year olds and bottle young girls
Please don't cherry pick individual 'events' to try and and muddy the waters and create some kind of equivalence. The entire tone of the yes campaign is stridently obnoxious. 'No' don't have a 'convince a granny' strategy where vile people try and browbeat the elderly into changing their vote (which they may be doing to try and protect their pensions), 'No' don't have a frogmarch to freedom strategy to get people to the polling stations etc etc etc.
LOL, so you just make something up in your fevered imagination , vague bullshit innuendo and I give you real violent occurences and you start wittering on about cherry picking. Just because YES people will go happily to vote and want a carnival atmosphere does not make BT's doom and gloom dread laden drudgery what everyone should aspire to. You are sad losers , losing sadly and some of you will trudge sadly to vote on Thursday , many others will whinge for years about imaginary intimidation making it impossible for them to try and vote their country down. No hope versus ambition and vision.
I'm afraid you're completely failing (as an entire campaign) to see yourselves as others see you. All these websites talking to each other and becoming pickled in your own views -it's not surprising. A yes voter in my office the other day (the only one trying to convince everyone with her loud passive aggressive opining for yes -every office has one) was saying how angry she was that old people might get no over the line, and that they shouldn't be so selfish because they only had 15 years or so left to live. She couldn't see (and no one told her) what an utterly callous cow she was being. Every standard is subsumed in 'yes'.
LOL, that from the mob that beat up 80 year olds and bottle young girls
Please don't cherry pick individual 'events' to try and and muddy the waters and create some kind of equivalence. The entire tone of the yes campaign is stridently obnoxious. 'No' don't have a 'convince a granny' strategy where vile people try and browbeat the elderly into changing their vote (which they may be doing to try and protect their pensions), 'No' don't have a frogmarch to freedom strategy to get people to the polling stations etc etc etc.
LOL, so you just make something up in your fevered imagination , vague bullshit innuendo and I give you real violent occurences and you start wittering on about cherry picking. Just because YES people will go happily to vote and want a carnival atmosphere does not make BT's doom and gloom dread laden drudgery what everyone should aspire to. You are sad losers , losing sadly and some of you will trudge sadly to vote on Thursday , many others will whinge for years about imaginary intimidation making it impossible for them to try and vote their country down. No hope versus ambition and vision.
Yeh, we are being asked to believe news stories which clash with our experience. There are noisy cybernats but the grassroots campaign for Yes across the country has been peaceful and joyful. The majority of incidents where there has been violence or aggression have not been from mainstream No campaigners but from their far right allies who are campaigning for No.
What has been interesting is that the police actually went public to criticise Darling for saying there would be "absolute carnage" at polling stations. The establishment appears to be trying to provoke violence but the campaigners are just far too nice to co-operate.
The astounding bravery and courage of the three men who are about to to be decapitated magnifies the absolute cowardice of their killers..Does Allah really want such low life to enter into his kingdom..
Malcolm you were warned this morning about swearing at other posters, and you've just ignored that again.
As the site is going to be unmodereated for the next few hours, your ability to instantly publish has been revoked.
You mean Malcolm has been being moderated previously? I'm incredulous!
I'd half assumed that he is an individual satiring Scots Nationalism who is finding it very difficult to come up with new material since the moderators seem to be allowing him to post almost anything without complaint!
He over reacts but is being trolled by about 50% of the other posters on here
Whoever's side we're on, and whether you agree with this article or not, can we at least agree that there is a bigger geopolitical strategy at play here than simply 'the civillians' or 'the war on terror'?
What's frustrating about this is that not only is there this huge media taboo on talking about the strategic reasons for wars until about 30 years after the wars are over meaning there's hardly anything from "mainstream" sources, most of the non-mainstream people who do talk about them are nuts.
I think Alex Jones and that sort of stream are, perhaps not nuts, but idiots. But others whom I cite, I don't think are nuts -I think they have a very anti-US editorial stance, and therefore are portrayed as nuts. It's ridiculous that our debate consists of 'is Sam Cam making him do it' 'Is it his Eton background' and other such superficial guff, when there's actually a serious East/West geopolitical conflict being played out both in Eastern Europe and the ME, and it doesn't appear in our media, so even on forums like this with a very intelligent audience, people aren't aware.
Here's some truth for people: We are not trying to stop ISIS. Even as Cameron tries to convince us to bomb (helped by the latest ISIS home movie), we have not asked Turkey to close their border, we have not agreed to coordinate with Assad, we have not done anything about KSAs funding and radicalisation, we have not tried to cut off their ability to sell oil on the international market.
LOL, that from the mob that beat up 80 year olds and bottle young girls
Please don't cherry pick individual 'events' to try and and muddy the waters and create some kind of equivalence. The entire tone of the yes campaign is stridently obnoxious. 'No' don't have a 'convince a granny' strategy where vile people try and browbeat the elderly into changing their vote (which they may be doing to try and protect their pensions), 'No' don't have a frogmarch to freedom strategy to get people to the polling stations etc etc etc.
LOL, so you just make something up in your fevered imagination , vague bullshit innuendo and I give you real violent occurences and you start wittering on about cherry picking. Just because YES people will go happily to vote and want a carnival atmosphere does not make BT's doom and gloom dread laden drudgery what everyone should aspire to. You are sad losers , losing sadly and some of you will trudge sadly to vote on Thursday , many others will whinge for years about imaginary intimidation making it impossible for them to try and vote their country down. No hope versus ambition and vision.
I'm afraid you're completely failing (as an entire campaign) to see yourselves as others see you. All these websites talking to each other and becoming pickled in your own views -it's not surprising. A yes voter in my office the other day (the only one trying to convince everyone with her loud passive aggressive opining for yes -every office has one) was saying how angry she was that old people might get no over the line, and that they shouldn't be so selfish because they only had 15 years or so left to live. She couldn't see (and no one told her) what an utterly callous cow she was being. Every standard is subsumed in 'yes'.
It's hard to be optimistic about the short term future of the UK. if it's a Yes vote there will be all kind of problems to deal with. If it is a no vote, it may be a worryingly slim margin that will not be in Scotland's interest. The uncertainty over its future in the UK will harm long term investment. You also have the fact that more powers have been promised and something will have to be delivered. That will then pose constitutional problems for the rest of the UK which will not be easily resolvable.
More generally I wonder if attitudes towards the Union will shift down south. People keep using the marriage analogy - well imagine if your spouse tells you they are thinking of leaving you but haven't made their mind up. After a while they come to the conclusion that they will stick with you. Not because they love you of course. No, they've just realised that going it on their own would be uncertain, risky and probably leave them poorer. It's hard to imagine you are going to feel very warm towards your spouse in such a situation. In fact you might start actively trying to push them out of this unhappy marriage.
So eventually the pressure for Scottish independence may come from outside. How long could the UK last with a powerful English parliament? I can just imagine the challenge Prime minister Ed would face trying to deal with English first minister Boris.
The bank account protection policy: Is it £85k per bank or per account or TOTAL ?
I bank with RBS.
Per bank
It's complicated because of mergers - usually it's per merged bank (so e.g. Britannia was part of the Co-op, IIRC, and you had to watch if you had accounts in both). But there are certain exceptions. Which or the FSA are probably the best websites to check.
Mr. Booth, quite right to suggest post-No the spotlight would shift as much to England as Scotland. People don't want weak-kneed bedwetting regional assemblies (unless you're Nick Clegg, of course). We want an English Parliament, or at least English votes for English laws.
It could be the key to UKIP getting many more seats than they otherwise would.
Mr. Booth, quite right to suggest post-No the spotlight would shift as much to England as Scotland. People don't want weak-kneed bedwetting regional assemblies (unless you're Nick Clegg, of course). We want an English Parliament, or at least English votes for English laws.
It could be the key to UKIP getting many more seats than they otherwise would.
Depends whether the Tories enthusiastically pick up on it first at their Conference....
Please don't cherry pick individual 'events' to try and and muddy the waters and create some kind of equivalence. The entire tone of the yes campaign is stridently obnoxious. 'No' don't have a 'convince a granny' strategy where vile people try and browbeat the elderly into changing their vote (which they may be doing to try and protect their pensions), 'No' don't have a frogmarch to freedom strategy to get people to the polling stations etc etc etc.
LOL, that from the mob that beat up 80 year olds and bottle young girls
Please don't cherry pick individual 'events' to try and and muddy the waters and create some kind of equivalence. The entire tone of the yes campaign is stridently obnoxious. 'No' don't have a 'convince a granny' strategy where vile people try and browbeat the elderly into changing their vote (which they may be doing to try and protect their pensions), 'No' don't have a frogmarch to freedom strategy to get people to the polling stations etc etc etc.
Another excellent post. I meant to give you kudos yesterday.
Time for an English poll on independence from Scotland.
Seek and ye shall find.
'Across England and Wales, there is strong resistance to Scottish independence with 59% saying that Scotland should not go it alone. A quarter (28%) think it should but many are Scots themselves – the proportion for Yes rises to 51% among people who responded from North of the Border.'
Mr. Booth, quite right to suggest post-No the spotlight would shift as much to England as Scotland. People don't want weak-kneed bedwetting regional assemblies (unless you're Nick Clegg, of course). We want an English Parliament, or at least English votes for English laws.
It could be the key to UKIP getting many more seats than they otherwise would.
An English parliament would surely be the beginning of the end of the UK. If people believe in this then let them say so honestly. I can't understand this EVFEL obsession. I certainly wouldn't favour it if I was a Tory. greater powers for Scotland whilst Labour governments would be no less likely to be formed in London. They just might not be able to pass many laws. But they would still be governing across all areas.
By and large EV4EL will remain a politicians' obsession. That doesn't make it any less likely to come in. But i think it is unlikely that it actually happen because of pressure from English voters. English voters are about the most apathetic to how they are governed in the World. All they want is an opportunity to kick bad governments out every few years and just want to be left alone the rest of the time. It's one of the reasons they'll probably be quite annoyed at the Scots if they vote "yes". Causing unnecessary turmoil and forcing them to take some interest in how we are governed.
Mr. Mark, it's a fantastic opportunity for Cameron. However, I think he'll fluff it. Backbenchers will be pissed and if UKIP come out for an English Parliament it'll only encourage defections.
Comments
But it won;t be the same as now.
Leading 'Yes' campaigner in August:
"We can bring the Royal Mail back into public ownership, ensuring fair delivery charges in rural areas..."
http://www.highland-news.co.uk/Independence-Debate/Yes-vote-can-make-Highlands-a-powerhouse-21082014.htm
The Sinn Fein logo on the banner ought to be something of a giveaway.
Perhaps someone can tell me if it's true that the Nats will be out in force around the polling booths on the day of the vote.
"Remember the name - Jahangir Akhtar"
I'm not predicting brownshirt thuggery, but I suspect you would be ostracised like a strikebreaking miner in the Yorkshire coalfield after the miners strike and your life made a similar misery.
There is also the fact that people within families may be enthusiastic yessers and you don't want to disturb domestic harmony, not to mention if you work in the public sector.
In such a situation it is wisest, as you say, to support Yes until you are safely in the polling booth.
When Fatface and co. discover that tomorrow dosen't belong to them after all it will be amusing to watch down here, but not so much if you regularly frequent a working class Glasgow pub.
Cameron has called for inquiries into abuse at Westminster, the newspapers, trade union activities, colonial abuses in British India, letters sent to IRA suspects, and business tourism. Yet nothing on the largest crime wave of child rape and torture we've ever known in this country. Why?
Unless something major is announced soon, it shows David Cameron is seriously lacking in basic moral fibre. A complete neglect of duty as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.
But you are not interested. You are a biased Nat only interested in living in Wonderland. Truth and reality have no meaning. And this board is only a platform for your bile and propaganda .
as I said a few days back the Indy arguments have been settled about six months ago
Unionists win economics ( Nat - no show )
Nats win hearts ( Unionists C- )
really all there is to do now is troll idiocy while we wait for the vote.
Well, it's a view, I suppose.
""'We have seen nothing yet' is a phrase that we could with advantage repeat to ourselves whenever we try to form a picture of that future.. there lies the certainty of violence on a scale which can only adequately be described as civil war".
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/live/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-referendum-live
"Scottish Labour is potentially on its death bed and if the country breaks up, the principle responsibility will be on them. From the Blair era onwards, the Iraq War, the collapse in credibility and confidence in the British state, not just in Scotland but through Farage and so on in the rest of the country, the pitiful, absolutely pitiful, job that’s been made of defending a 300-year-old relationship in this island by the Scottish Labour leadership is really terrible for me to behold, even though I’m no longer one of them ...
Without a doubt the number of Labour voters intending to vote Yes is disturbingly high. That’s a grave squandering of a great legacy of Scottish Labour history which history will decree as unpardonable, unforgivable.
Now, if Labour is to get out of its deathbed in Scotland, whatever the result, it’s going to have to become Labour again – real Labour again. I’m ready to help them with that and my goodness they need help with it."
My money's on Salmond....
Trouble is it's in the Mail They might be telling the unvarnished truth of course.
Akhtar did not get 5000 postal votes.
He only received 1528 in total.
The Daily Star is wrong.
The result was
AKHTAR Jahangir
Labour Party Candidate
1528
MAHMOOD Sarah Kiran
Respect (George Galloway)
217
MARSHALL Marilyn
The Conservative Party Candidate
248
VINES Maureen
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
1567 Elected
"Given the heated atmosphere of the referendum campaign, voters who opposed independence may have been differentially disposed not to respond to polls, and, when they did respond, may have misreported their voting intentions," wrote John Fox, Robert Anderson and Joseph Dubonnet in a paper for the Canadian Journal of Sociology.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-2752089/Quebec-parallel-shows-final-weeks-critical-tight-Scottish-polls.html
Doesn't really matter
You should be hammering on the Betfair Yes price if you think the outcome is that marginal.
looking at the threads from the last week or so I don't think either side has a monopoly on that.
maybe we should just call it a national characteristic ;-)
The horrible old racist Daily Mail that got Stephen Lawrences killers banged up?
Yeah she's probably a humanitarian aid worker.. they seem to be appreciated by British muslims in the middle East
http://nsnbc.me/2014/09/11/us-yet-trying-create-oil-gas-collapse-russia/
Whoever's side we're on, and whether you agree with this article or not, can we at least agree that there is a bigger geopolitical strategy at play here than simply 'the civillians' or 'the war on terror'?
"... if Labour is to get out of its deathbed in Scotland, whatever the result, it’s going to have to become Labour again – real Labour again."
What is this real Labour of which you speak?
Like Tower Hamlets is the capital of postal votes in London. Whereas Bromley beats TH by thousands.
1567 Elected
""'We have seen nothing yet' is a phrase that we could with advantage repeat to ourselves whenever we try to form a picture of that future.. there lies the certainty of violence on a scale which can only adequately be described as civil war".
1) Your comment Jahangir Akhtar was defamatory then, and could get Mike Smithson into trouble
2) You appear to have forgotten you are not permitted to talk about the events of Rotherham and or grooming.
http://election.princeton.edu/2014/09/12/a-note-on-scottish-independence/#more-10912
The bank account protection policy: Is it £85k per bank or per account or TOTAL ?
I bank with RBS.
The last bit is pure guesswork. I'm guessing 54-46 split though.
borderpeaks // Sep 12, 2014 at 8:24 pm
I’m a member of the Cameron Clan but not allowed to vote being born in the USA. I only can hope the polls are wrong.
Just because YES people will go happily to vote and want a carnival atmosphere does not make BT's doom and gloom dread laden drudgery what everyone should aspire to.
You are sad losers , losing sadly and some of you will trudge sadly to vote on Thursday , many others will whinge for years about imaginary intimidation making it impossible for them to try and vote their country down. No hope versus ambition and vision.
As the site is going to be unmodereated for the next few hours, your ability to instantly publish has been revoked.
Anyway, all I did was say UKIP were a good bet at 3/1 given what has gone on, and tried not to talk about anything else, and for that I was accused of not caring about preventing child abuse via smug comments from @JosiasJessop.. what am I meant to do? Let people think he is right?
I'd half assumed that he is an individual satiring Scots Nationalism who is finding it very difficult to come up with new material since the moderators seem to be allowing him to post almost anything without complaint!
What has been interesting is that the police actually went public to criticise Darling for saying there would be "absolute carnage" at polling stations. The establishment appears to be trying to provoke violence but the campaigners are just far too nice to co-operate.
Here's some truth for people: We are not trying to stop ISIS. Even as Cameron tries to convince us to bomb (helped by the latest ISIS home movie), we have not asked Turkey to close their border, we have not agreed to coordinate with Assad, we have not done anything about KSAs funding and radicalisation, we have not tried to cut off their ability to sell oil on the international market.
More generally I wonder if attitudes towards the Union will shift down south. People keep using the marriage analogy - well imagine if your spouse tells you they are thinking of leaving you but haven't made their mind up. After a while they come to the conclusion that they will stick with you. Not because they love you of course. No, they've just realised that going it on their own would be uncertain, risky and probably leave them poorer. It's hard to imagine you are going to feel very warm towards your spouse in such a situation. In fact you might start actively trying to push them out of this unhappy marriage.
So eventually the pressure for Scottish independence may come from outside. How long could the UK last with a powerful English parliament? I can just imagine the challenge Prime minister Ed would face trying to deal with English first minister Boris.
It could be the key to UKIP getting many more seats than they otherwise would.
Rory Stewart, MP for Penrith and the Border,tweets: A nice article on #indyref from The Globe and Mail bit.ly/1qzEVfj
I don't watch the BBC hardly ever (only on when my wife watches Eastenders). I love Sky Sports most of the time; Boxing and Golf nut.
Anyway, protest march is a massive turn off, IMO.
Another excellent post. I meant to give you kudos yesterday.
'Across England and Wales, there is strong resistance to Scottish independence with 59% saying that Scotland should not go it alone. A quarter (28%) think it should but many are Scots themselves – the proportion for Yes rises to 51% among people who responded from North of the Border.'
http://tinyurl.com/p2oc2m3