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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Make no mistake the polls point to the IndyRef being on a k

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  • OK, now for a very brief respite from all the Referendum talk - the moment you've all been waiting for, the highlight of your Sunday!

    Yes, this week's Sunil on Sunday ELBOW (Electoral Leader-Board Of the Week) - 8 polls with fieldwork 8th to 12th Sep:

    Lab 36.1% (+0.2)
    Con 31.2% (-1.6)
    UKIP 15.6% (+1.0)

    LD 7.4% (+0.0)

    (changes from last week's ELBOW in brackets)

    changes from the very first ELBOW from 4 weeks ago (17th August 2014):

    Lab -0.1%
    Con -1.9%
    UKIP +2.3%
    LD -1.2%
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    edited September 2014
    malcolmg said:

    Site quality has seen a big drop since it became obvious the union was dead. It seems to have brought all sorts of No marks out of the woodwork and unfortunately a good few seem to have washed up on here and lowered the tone of the debate shockingly.

    Yep, moron shall speak pish unto moron. A shame some of the brighter posters seem to have reverted to atavistic nationalism.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    the Luis Bunuel of economics returns
  • @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    Even relatively "new" nations like Germany and Italy play as united teams.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    John_N said:

    surbiton said:

    Personally, unless NO can win decisively, say, 10 points, I think it would be best to separate.

    I think that's a ridiculous statement.

    If NO win by a small margin, negotiations will ensue on giving the Scottish government greater powers. The SNP leadership will obviously be involved in a big way. The country will become more united.

    If YES win by a small margin, negotiations will ensue on the terms of independence. Problems will be experienced. (Don't believe me? Ask Deutsche Bank. Ask the international financial markets.) Guess what pollsters will do. That's right: they'll conduct polls to assess what percentage of people still want independence. Do you really think that percentage will ever go far above 50%, when the idea becomes associated in the minds of more and more people with ideas such as "capital flight", "economic depression" and "large-scale cuts"? The percentage will, during the course of negotiations, fall below 50% at least some of the time. Indeed it's likely to fall below 50% and stay there. You can't sell sunshine to all of the people all of the time, especially when all the banks up sticks and the "£85000 issue" starts to penetrate their noggins. The country will stay divided in a big way.

    So no, Mr or Ms Surbiton. You need to win more votes than No to get your separation.

    And BTW I think if either side makes it to 55%, it's more likely to be No.

    I also think that at the margin (and all votes in a referendum are equal) it will be easier for No to get those extra few votes out than Yes. Remember that Yes have been in everyone's faces for some time, and they are still behind in most polls.

    The Orange Order's march seemed stupid to many people. Wouldn't it alienate working class Catholics in the Glasgow area? But perhaps it wasn't so stupid. If it encourages a few more percent of strong Protestants to vote No rather than abstain, the direction of the overall shift it brings could well be towards No. The aforementioned demographic in the Glasgow area are currently being wooed by Labour in a big way. Posters are going up saying not "No Thanks" or "UK OK" but "Vote No", signed "Scottish Labour".

    I reckon No will get around 54%.



    Cuckoo alert, what kind of fool could imagine the sight of those sad gits dressed up like turkeys and shouting "No popery" would encourage any person with more than 2 brain cells to vote for such an odious campaign as BT. Vote no for bigotry , budget cuts and foodbanks, it has a ring to it.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    What should George Osborne do with the independence windfall - get rid of inheritance tax + old age care free + ?
  • I think that all it shows is that people who will vote no have been cowed into silence and that online polls may be vulnerable to activist entryism when feelings are running high.

    In the current atmosphere many people will be reluctant to admit "no" even in a phone poll as a family member or other person may hear them, eg a child who then goes off to school and tells other people, resulting in unwanted "attention". I suspect in some places people found to be voting "no" will be treated like strikebreakers in the miners strike and ostracised afterwards, so best keep shtum.

    I wonder how opinion pollsters would have got on in the 1933 election in Germany, my guess is that the NSDAP vote would have been seriously over estimated for much the same reasons

    No even that - with the climate of fear and reprisal that will inevitably ensue, wouldn't you be worried about information you confidentially gave to a pollster somehow getting into the wrong hands after a Yes vote? Personally I wouldn't take the risk and would keep my head down right up until I'm in the safety of the polling booth.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Or a couple of pence off income tax?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    For once we agree
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    I think that all it shows is that people who will vote no have been cowed into silence and that online polls may be vulnerable to activist entryism when feelings are running high.

    In the current atmosphere many people will be reluctant to admit "no" even in a phone poll as a family member or other person may hear them, eg a child who then goes off to school and tells other people, resulting in unwanted "attention". I suspect in some places people found to be voting "no" will be treated like strikebreakers in the miners strike and ostracised afterwards, so best keep shtum.

    I wonder how opinion pollsters would have got on in the 1933 election in Germany, my guess is that the NSDAP vote would have been seriously over estimated for much the same reasons

    No even that - with the climate of fear and reprisal that will inevitably ensue, wouldn't you be worried about information you confidentially gave to a pollster somehow getting into the wrong hands after a Yes vote? Personally I wouldn't take the risk and would keep my head down right up until I'm in the safety of the polling booth.
    Ho Ho HO , it gets better and better, now they are saying Polling companies will hand over names and addresses for a pogram. What a nutjob.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    PAW said:

    What should George Osborne do with the independence windfall - get rid of inheritance tax + old age care free + ?

    Every post now is a hoot, now we have a delusional halfwit
  • John_NJohn_N Posts: 389
    edited September 2014
    Several newspapers are saying that bank deposits would continue to be protected to the tune of the first £85000 during a post-Yes period. They're mainly cut-and-pasting from what Jill Treanor of the Guardian heard from the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. Unfortunately she asked the wrong question. It's true that protection would continue in a post-Yes period. But why aren't they making the point that there is no guarantee that deposits would be protected to the same level after independence itself? And without a lender of last resort, it would be practically impossible for an iScottish government to operate such a scheme.

    No should be shouting about the bank deposit protection issue from the rooftops.
  • malcolmg said:

    @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    For once we agree
    Malcolm, my point is Scotland already has its own football, why not its own Olympic team (via a YES vote, natch).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    malcolmg said:

    Site quality has seen a big drop since it became obvious the union was dead. It seems to have brought all sorts of No marks out of the woodwork and unfortunately a good few seem to have washed up on here and lowered the tone of the debate shockingly.

    Yep, moron shall speak pish unto moron. A shame some of the brighter posters seem to have reverted to atavistic nationalism.
    It is like a lunatic asylum, mass hysteria by idiots
  • Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
  • Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    My company has some great business opportunities involving turning water into wine and lead into gold. Would it be possible to meet up as I believe you should be investing with us? When we get together I can also tell you about a very interesting email I received the other day from the wife of a recently deceased Nigerian politician.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.

    There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    edited September 2014

    @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    Edited to reply to Sunil, as intended :)

    Germany = Italy = Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sport nations.

    Is there anything else about my post you didn't understand?
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Come on malc, surely you want England to prosper after independence. You won't grudge them spending the savings on themselves? And if England continues to do well?
  • as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.

    There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
    And also means rest of UK might keep universal delivery for longer, which is only guaranteed for a few years I believe.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    My company has some great business opportunities involving turning water into wine and lead into gold. Would it be possible to meet up as I believe you should be investing with us? When we get together I can also tell you about a very interesting email I received the other day from the wife of a recently deceased Nigerian politician.

    get in the queue SO. I offered to sell him 5 magic beans for some oil wells
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    John_N said:

    No should be shouting about the bank deposit protection issue from the rooftops.

    In a sense it already is, as the issue (government support and capital) is what is behind the banks plans to move south. An independent Scotland wouldn't have an economy large enough to support similar sized guarantees.

    There's basically too much banking in Scotland for its size. I think something like 25% of UK retail banking is based in Scotland, but Scotland only makes up about 8% of population. So post-independence you would expect about two-thirds of Scottish banking to redomicile in the UK.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    The OO in Ulster would only brand things with the 6 counties.
  • alexalex Posts: 244
    One to lighten the mood

    http://tinyurl.com/ocajjas
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
    It was most amusing the other day when BlackDouglas was trying to show us how knowledgeable he was about financial matters, yet managed to refer to "gilts" as "guilts".

    And how we laughed....

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I'm finding @BlackDouglas‌ enormously entertaining.

    He's like a Scottish Dave Spart crossed with Irving Welsh.

    Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
  • malcolmg said:

    I think that all it shows is that people who will vote no have been cowed into silence and that online polls may be vulnerable to activist entryism when feelings are running high.

    In the current atmosphere many people will be reluctant to admit "no" even in a phone poll as a family member or other person may hear them, eg a child who then goes off to school and tells other people, resulting in unwanted "attention". I suspect in some places people found to be voting "no" will be treated like strikebreakers in the miners strike and ostracised afterwards, so best keep shtum.

    I wonder how opinion pollsters would have got on in the 1933 election in Germany, my guess is that the NSDAP vote would have been seriously over estimated for much the same reasons

    No even that - with the climate of fear and reprisal that will inevitably ensue, wouldn't you be worried about information you confidentially gave to a pollster somehow getting into the wrong hands after a Yes vote? Personally I wouldn't take the risk and would keep my head down right up until I'm in the safety of the polling booth.
    Ho Ho HO , it gets better and better, now they are saying Polling companies will hand over names and addresses for a pogram. What a nutjob.
    I wasn't referring to the reality, merely the perfectly understandable perception.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    malcolmg said:

    @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    For once we agree
    Malcolm, my point is Scotland already has its own football, why not its own Olympic team (via a YES vote, natch).
    Sunil, I know , I was actually saying that for once I agreed with JJ who had replied to your post.
  • @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    Edited to reply to Sunil, as intended :)
    Germany = Italy = Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sport nations.

    Is there anything else about my post you didn't understand?
    Let me make my point clearer:

    Bavarians and Saxons play in a united German footy team (NB. Bavaria and Saxony had their own monarchies as recently as 1918)
    Lombards and Sicilians play in a united Italian footy team

    but the so-called United Kingdom isn't so "united" :)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
    It was most amusing the other day when BlackDouglas was trying to show us how knowledgeable he was about financial matters, yet managed to refer to "gilts" as "guilts".

    And how we laughed....

    Yes fools are easily pleased, at least he does not press himself up against faded pop stars windows begging them to be friends.
  • All seems rather tetchy this morning.
  • AllyMAllyM Posts: 260
    Any betting market for even side wagers on best polling company for the Referendum?

    I'm not a rich man but fancy a small side bet...
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
    It was most amusing the other day when BlackDouglas was trying to show us how knowledgeable he was about financial matters, yet managed to refer to "gilts" as "guilts".

    And how we laughed....

    It could have been an iPhone/iPad autocorrection. I try my best not to let the buggers creep out, though they are occasionally amusing; once I told Facebook that I was watching "Rotten ham hotspots" get stuffed at White Hart Lane!
  • Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
    It was most amusing the other day when BlackDouglas was trying to show us how knowledgeable he was about financial matters, yet managed to refer to "gilts" as "guilts".

    And how we laughed....

    Since the disappearance of OldNat there hasn't been a decent Nat poster on this forum. I miss the ghastly old codger.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    I think that all it shows is that people who will vote no have been cowed into silence and that online polls may be vulnerable to activist entryism when feelings are running high.

    In the current atmosphere many people will be reluctant to admit "no" even in a phone poll as a family member or other person may hear them, eg a child who then goes off to school and tells other people, resulting in unwanted "attention". I suspect in some places people found to be voting "no" will be treated like strikebreakers in the miners strike and ostracised afterwards, so best keep shtum.

    I wonder how opinion pollsters would have got on in the 1933 election in Germany, my guess is that the NSDAP vote would have been seriously over estimated for much the same reasons

    No even that - with the climate of fear and reprisal that will inevitably ensue, wouldn't you be worried about information you confidentially gave to a pollster somehow getting into the wrong hands after a Yes vote? Personally I wouldn't take the risk and would keep my head down right up until I'm in the safety of the polling booth.


    Someone I know recalled to me the 2011 Census, in which - to her recollection - very many Scots (on the Eastern side of the country, anyway) flatly refused to give any answer at all to what religion they were. In her view, there is a very strong Mind your own Business element in the Scottish mentality. How this pans out for Y vs N I have no idea.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.

    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.

    There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    glw said:

    John_N said:

    No should be shouting about the bank deposit protection issue from the rooftops.

    In a sense it already is, as the issue (government support and capital) is what is behind the banks plans to move south. An independent Scotland wouldn't have an economy large enough to support similar sized guarantees.

    There's basically too much banking in Scotland for its size. I think something like 25% of UK retail banking is based in Scotland, but Scotland only makes up about 8% of population. So post-independence you would expect about two-thirds of Scottish banking to redomicile in the UK.
    Exactly it is guarnteed by the BofE, they bailed those turkeys out once and they will do it the next time as well, helped by the FED of course as they don't really have the clout to do it themselves.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Good afternoon all. Just been watching Politics Scotland. John Curtice came as close as his Labour supporting instincts could to admitting YES could be in the lead and could actually win.

    However like OGH he suggested those who have gone out of their way (probably with much persuasion) to register to vote for the 1st time (not 16/17 year olds) are more likely to vote NO. Sadly I think this is utter nonsense. The only way people who have never been inclined to participate in the democratic process would see a point in voting is to change something. That can only mean YES. Especially when one examines the demographic of most of these new voters. They are C2DE not ABC1.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Royal mail will be made up if they no longer have to provide a service to the bleak and barren wilderness.

    But enough about Dundee....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    malcolmg said:

    Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
    It was most amusing the other day when BlackDouglas was trying to show us how knowledgeable he was about financial matters, yet managed to refer to "gilts" as "guilts".

    And how we laughed....

    Yes fools are easily pleased, at least he does not press himself up against faded pop stars windows begging them to be friends.
    To be fair to Douglas most of the public in both countries take the view that City Bankers rank lower in their esteem than estate agents or politicians.
  • Carnyx said:

    I think that all it shows is that people who will vote no have been cowed into silence and that online polls may be vulnerable to activist entryism when feelings are running high.

    In the current atmosphere many people will be reluctant to admit "no" even in a phone poll as a family member or other person may hear them, eg a child who then goes off to school and tells other people, resulting in unwanted "attention". I suspect in some places people found to be voting "no" will be treated like strikebreakers in the miners strike and ostracised afterwards, so best keep shtum.

    I wonder how opinion pollsters would have got on in the 1933 election in Germany, my guess is that the NSDAP vote would have been seriously over estimated for much the same reasons

    No even that - with the climate of fear and reprisal that will inevitably ensue, wouldn't you be worried about information you confidentially gave to a pollster somehow getting into the wrong hands after a Yes vote? Personally I wouldn't take the risk and would keep my head down right up until I'm in the safety of the polling booth.


    Someone I know recalled to me the 2011 Census, in which - to her recollection - very many Scots (on the Eastern side of the country, anyway) flatly refused to give any answer at all to what religion they were. In her view, there is a very strong Mind your own Business element in the Scottish mentality. How this pans out for Y vs N I have no idea.

    There is a break-down of census data into Catholic v. Protestant for Northern Ireland, but not for Great Britain (where you might expect it to be less controversial).
  • Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    PAW said:

    Come on malc, surely you want England to prosper after independence. You won't grudge them spending the savings on themselves? And if England continues to do well?

    They need to do well so they can bail out those UK banks when they fold again. I of course wish all much prosperity but think only the elite troughers are safe. You are in for a shock if you think losing Scotland will give you savings though.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    The OO in Ulster would only brand things with the 6 counties.
    Thanks. It was BTW fascinating to read the excerpts of the speeches from the Orange Order leaders in Edinburgh as reported on the Graun feed and elsewhere. Quite a different perspective on indyref, with much more emphasis on the Protestant religion than I had expected (I know, I know, but we just don't see them very often in my airt except when a flying squad come and march around the local burgh).
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    Edited to reply to Sunil, as intended :)
    Germany = Italy = Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sport nations.

    Is there anything else about my post you didn't understand?
    Let me make my point clearer:

    Bavarians and Saxons play in a united German footy team (NB. Bavaria and Saxony had their own monarchies as recently as 1918)
    Lombards and Sicilians play in a united Italian footy team

    but the so-called United Kingdom isn't so "united" :)
    Your ignoring of my point is very clear. Scotland v England was THE FIRST international rugby/football match. That means the first two countries to play football/rugby were Scotland & England. Why should anyone else be able to tell them that they can't compete as separate nations? This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
    LOL, how original, a poor imitation
  • Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
    The other day he claimed that 95% of all the EU's oil reserves were in Scottish waters. It seems Stuart Dickson and reality are rarely acquainted.
  • John_NJohn_N Posts: 389

    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
    Lucrative for some. Of more relevance to most people in Scotland is that addresses in remote areas here are a larger proportion of all addresses. So operating a universal-delivery service in an independent Scotland will mean that postage prices will soar.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Jesus, every stored procedure I edit, I need to retry the connction 5 times.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Plato said:

    Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.

    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.

    There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
    Get your financial advice here, roll up roll up
  • alexalex Posts: 244
    John_N said:

    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
    Lucrative for some. Of more relevance to most people in Scotland is that addresses in remote areas here are a larger proportion of all addresses. So operating a universal-delivery service in an independent Scotland will mean that postage prices will soar.
    Well this is the point that business leaders like the JohnLewis boss were making the other day. If Scotland splits then the reality of doing business in a separate country, probably with a different currency, will take over. And these additional costs of doing business in Scotland will be passed onto Scottish consumers. Scaremongering of course.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
    Cuckoo
  • @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    Edited to reply to Sunil, as intended :)
    Germany = Italy = Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sport nations.

    Is there anything else about my post you didn't understand?
    Let me make my point clearer:

    Bavarians and Saxons play in a united German footy team (NB. Bavaria and Saxony had their own monarchies as recently as 1918)
    Lombards and Sicilians play in a united Italian footy team

    but the so-called United Kingdom isn't so "united" :)
    Your ignoring of my point is very clear. Scotland v England was THE FIRST international rugby/football match. That means the first two countries to play football/rugby were Scotland & England. Why should anyone else be able to tell them that they can't compete as separate nations? This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports.
    Why would such a UNITED Kingdom, that we are told day after day as being BETTER TOGETHER, want to compete against ITSELF?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    malcolmg said:

    Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
    It was most amusing the other day when BlackDouglas was trying to show us how knowledgeable he was about financial matters, yet managed to refer to "gilts" as "guilts".

    And how we laughed....

    Yes fools are easily pleased, at least he does not press himself up against faded pop stars windows begging them to be friends.
    The faded pop stars are all out entertaining the YES troops...

  • Right, since we're approaching showtime, a round up of my indy bets for the record.

    Antifrank £50 at evens to charity that Yes will be 40% or above
    Mark Senior £25 at evens that Yes will be 40% or above
    Pulpstar £100 at 4/9 Yes win
    Tim £50 at evens that Salmond would be ahead of Darling in Ipsos approval ratings by referendum
    Tim £100 at 9/4 Yes win
    SeanT £100 at evens Yes win

    If I've mis-remembered any of the details let me know.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Good afternoon all. Just been watching Politics Scotland. John Curtice came as close as his Labour supporting instincts could to admitting YES could be in the lead and could actually win.

    However like OGH he suggested those who have gone out of their way (probably with much persuasion) to register to vote for the 1st time (not 16/17 year olds) are more likely to vote NO. Sadly I think this is utter nonsense. The only way people who have never been inclined to participate in the democratic process would see a point in voting is to change something. That can only mean YES. Especially when one examines the demographic of most of these new voters. They are C2DE not ABC1.

    Easterross, Hope you had a jolly good day yesterday. Hope you did not take umbrage at my little jest earlier re your goodself and groundsman Willie
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    malcolmg said:

    glw said:

    John_N said:

    No should be shouting about the bank deposit protection issue from the rooftops.

    In a sense it already is, as the issue (government support and capital) is what is behind the banks plans to move south. An independent Scotland wouldn't have an economy large enough to support similar sized guarantees.

    There's basically too much banking in Scotland for its size. I think something like 25% of UK retail banking is based in Scotland, but Scotland only makes up about 8% of population. So post-independence you would expect about two-thirds of Scottish banking to redomicile in the UK.
    Exactly it is guarnteed by the BofE, they bailed those turkeys out once and they will do it the next time as well, helped by the FED of course as they don't really have the clout to do it themselves.
    Well I hope YES aren't relying on tax revenues from those banks, because that part of Scotland's economy will almost certainly become much smaller very quickly.
  • Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
    It was most amusing the other day when BlackDouglas was trying to show us how knowledgeable he was about financial matters, yet managed to refer to "gilts" as "guilts".

    And how we laughed....

    Since the disappearance of OldNat there hasn't been a decent Nat poster on this forum. I miss the ghastly old codger.

    Ironic since I'd guess you were one of the primary reasons for him stopping posting.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    John_N said:

    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
    Lucrative for some. Of more relevance to most people in Scotland is that addresses in remote areas here are a larger proportion of all addresses. So operating a universal-delivery service in an independent Scotland will mean that postage prices will soar.
    Listen will you, Alex Salmond and malcolmg are offering the people of Scotland a free lunch (breakfast dinner and tea).

    Its an old socialist trick.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    glw said:

    malcolmg said:

    glw said:

    John_N said:

    No should be shouting about the bank deposit protection issue from the rooftops.

    In a sense it already is, as the issue (government support and capital) is what is behind the banks plans to move south. An independent Scotland wouldn't have an economy large enough to support similar sized guarantees.

    There's basically too much banking in Scotland for its size. I think something like 25% of UK retail banking is based in Scotland, but Scotland only makes up about 8% of population. So post-independence you would expect about two-thirds of Scottish banking to redomicile in the UK.
    Exactly it is guarnteed by the BofE, they bailed those turkeys out once and they will do it the next time as well, helped by the FED of course as they don't really have the clout to do it themselves.
    Well I hope YES aren't relying on tax revenues from those banks, because that part of Scotland's economy will almost certainly become much smaller very quickly.
    London steal it all currently and make us pay for their failures , so win-win for us, we will get some money and no liabilities.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    John_N said:

    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
    Lucrative for some. Of more relevance to most people in Scotland is that addresses in remote areas here are a larger proportion of all addresses. So operating a universal-delivery service in an independent Scotland will mean that postage prices will soar.
    Listen will you, Alex Salmond and malcolmg are offering the people of Scotland a free lunch (breakfast dinner and tea).

    Its an old socialist trick.
    Thick as ever and delusional, imagining things about people. Thick one there is no such thing as a free lunch.
  • John_NJohn_N Posts: 389

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    The OO in Ulster would only brand things with the 6 counties.
    The banner is probably fake, but you are wrong about that. The OO is active in parts of Ulster outside the six counties, such as Donegal. It is also active in the other three provinces of Ireland. The Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland is, as the name suggests, an all-Ireland body. It's active on both sides of the border.

  • Tories down 1.6% in this week's ELBOW, by the way!
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    Edited to reply to Sunil, as intended :)
    Germany = Italy = Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sport nations.

    Is there anything else about my post you didn't understand?
    Let me make my point clearer:

    Bavarians and Saxons play in a united German footy team (NB. Bavaria and Saxony had their own monarchies as recently as 1918)
    Lombards and Sicilians play in a united Italian footy team

    but the so-called United Kingdom isn't so "united" :)
    Your ignoring of my point is very clear. Scotland v England was THE FIRST international rugby/football match. That means the first two countries to play football/rugby were Scotland & England. Why should anyone else be able to tell them that they can't compete as separate nations? This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports.
    Why would such a UNITED Kingdom, that we are told day after day as being BETTER TOGETHER, want to compete against ITSELF?
    In case you missed it:- "This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports."

    The Scottish and English teams existed from the day these became international sports. Why would the FA or the SFA (nb not the government, or the people) agree to combining later on?
  • Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    The OO in Ulster would only brand things with the 6 counties.
    Only two of which - Antrim and Down - currently have Protestant majorities....
  • @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    Edited to reply to Sunil, as intended :)
    Germany = Italy = Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sport nations.

    Is there anything else about my post you didn't understand?
    Let me make my point clearer:

    Bavarians and Saxons play in a united German footy team (NB. Bavaria and Saxony had their own monarchies as recently as 1918)
    Lombards and Sicilians play in a united Italian footy team

    but the so-called United Kingdom isn't so "united" :)
    Your ignoring of my point is very clear. Scotland v England was THE FIRST international rugby/football match. That means the first two countries to play football/rugby were Scotland & England. Why should anyone else be able to tell them that they can't compete as separate nations? This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports.
    Why would such a UNITED Kingdom, that we are told day after day as being BETTER TOGETHER, want to compete against ITSELF?
    In case you missed it:- "This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports."

    The Scottish and English teams existed from the day these became international sports. Why would the FA or the SFA (nb not the government, or the people) agree to combining later on?
    Are we BETTER TOGETHER or not?
  • If there is going to be such a large turnout I can only assume it will be 'Yes', so just put £20 on that at 4.7.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    TGOHF said:

    Royal mail will be made up if they no longer have to provide a service to the bleak and barren wilderness.

    But enough about Dundee....
    Will an independent Scotland be relying on a foreign company to deliver its mail? Or will it deregulate it? What will Scottish unions think. Indeed what will Scottish unions think about being cut off from UK ones?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    edited September 2014
    malcolmg said:

    Plato said:

    Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.

    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.

    There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
    Get your financial advice here, roll up roll up
    she's actually spot on. Years ago I did consultancy work for RM and it was quite clear the universal service was costing them business.

    Competitors would undercut their price in the big cities and then just post via RM to for difficult to reach places. Scotland has most of the hard to reach places because of its geography.

    Though Black Douglas may explain differently of course.
  • Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
    It was most amusing the other day when BlackDouglas was trying to show us how knowledgeable he was about financial matters, yet managed to refer to "gilts" as "guilts".

    And how we laughed....

    Since the disappearance of OldNat there hasn't been a decent Nat poster on this forum. I miss the ghastly old codger.

    Ironic since I'd guess you were one of the primary reasons for him stopping posting.
    I'm certain he's made of sterner stuff than that. He'd be insulted by your notion.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    edited September 2014

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
    The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited September 2014
    I just can't resist here - I used to work in-conjunction with BT's Regulatory Affairs Dept re the broadband roll-out. I'm very very familiar with how hated the Universal Service Provision is by any firm forced to offer service at 100x cost vs the actual bill.

    You'll rue the day! Have fun :^ )
    malcolmg said:

    Plato said:

    Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.

    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.

    There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
    Get your financial advice here, roll up roll up
  • malcolmg said:

    John_N said:

    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
    Lucrative for some. Of more relevance to most people in Scotland is that addresses in remote areas here are a larger proportion of all addresses. So operating a universal-delivery service in an independent Scotland will mean that postage prices will soar.
    Listen will you, Alex Salmond and malcolmg are offering the people of Scotland a free lunch (breakfast dinner and tea).

    Its an old socialist trick.
    Thick as ever and delusional, imagining things about people. Thick one there is no such thing as a free lunch.
    "Lunch is for wimps!" - Gordon Gekko.
  • UKIP up 1.0% in this week's ELBOW, by the way :)
  • @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    Edited to reply to Sunil, as intended :)
    Germany = Italy = Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sport nations.

    Is there anything else about my post you didn't understand?
    Let me make my point clearer:

    Bavarians and Saxons play in a united German footy team (NB. Bavaria and Saxony had their own monarchies as recently as 1918)
    Lombards and Sicilians play in a united Italian footy team

    but the so-called United Kingdom isn't so "united" :)
    Your ignoring of my point is very clear. Scotland v England was THE FIRST international rugby/football match. That means the first two countries to play football/rugby were Scotland & England. Why should anyone else be able to tell them that they can't compete as separate nations? This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports.
    Why would such a UNITED Kingdom, that we are told day after day as being BETTER TOGETHER, want to compete against ITSELF?
    In case you missed it:- "This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports."

    The Scottish and English teams existed from the day these became international sports. Why would the FA or the SFA (nb not the government, or the people) agree to combining later on?
    Are we BETTER TOGETHER or not?
    Give it a rest, Sunil. One reason often cited for keeping separate Home FAs is that we maximise British representation at FIFA. So maybe it is all a cunning UK plot after all. Now you can worry about whether Boris can be Mayor of London when Spurs and Arsenal have different football teams.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,586
    edited September 2014
    malcolmg said:


    London steal it all currently and make us pay for their failures , so win-win for us, we will get some money and no liabilities.

    Actually the London Government borrows a lot of money every year at the moment (£2bn a week supposedly) of which £100m or so finds its way back to Scotland.

    How will the Scottish Government make up that money to keep services going...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    MikeK said:

    Paul Oakley UKIP ‏@PaulJamesOakley 5m
    UKIP Yorkshire MEP gets death threats for having the audacity to speak out about Rotherham child abuse scandal http://dly.st/Xgfd2G

    But we do have sectarianism and we know were most of it comes from.

    Ukip 3/1 to win Rotherham is a great bet

    They were on 21% in 2012 when none of this scandal was in the news

    I can't believe the people of Rotherham would be crazy enough to re elect the people who stood by and let it all happen ... It can't be a 75% chance in my book
  • BoabBoab Posts: 13
    John_N said:

    No should be shouting about the bank deposit protection issue from the rooftops.

    My money is in RBS who plan to move their brass plaque to London. So, er, covered.
    That scare story is a good un!
  • isam said:

    MikeK said:

    Paul Oakley UKIP ‏@PaulJamesOakley 5m
    UKIP Yorkshire MEP gets death threats for having the audacity to speak out about Rotherham child abuse scandal http://dly.st/Xgfd2G

    But we do have sectarianism and we know were most of it comes from.

    Ukip 3/1 to win Rotherham is a great bet

    They were on 21% in 2012 when none of this scandal was in the news

    I can't believe the people of Rotherham would be crazy enough to re elect the people who stood by and let it all happen ... It can't be a 75% chance in my book
    What would UKIP do to prevent it happening again?

    That is the question the good citizens of Rotherham should be asking all the political parties.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    malcolmg said:

    Plato said:

    Many of the onerous Universal Service Provisions that RMail and BT have would evaporate if Scotland went indy. They'd be chuffed to be exempt from providing services for the same cost to far flung places.

    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.

    There was a debate on BBC breakfast on Thursday with the owner of a mail order firm in Edinburgh saying he's have to go SOTB since that's where 90& of his customers were and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to delivery reliability.
    Get your financial advice here, roll up roll up
    she's actually spot on. Years ago I did consultancy work for RM and it was quite clear the universal service was costing them business.

    Competitors would undercut their price in the big cities and then just post via RM to for difficult to reach places. Scotland has mnost of the hard to reach places because of its geography.

    Theough Black Douglas may explain differently of course.
    Alan , I know the facts, does not hide fact that she is clueless and talking through her erchie. Letters etc are much reduced nowadays and we are already heavily discriminated against on parcels etc so can only be better.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited September 2014
    Dontyalove'em? A burka and a lab coat seems a little redundant to me...
    A woman believed to be a British medical student who left the UK in order to join ISIS has posted an image on social media of herself holding a severed head.

    The woman, who goes by the Twitter name of Mujahidah Bint Usama, claims to be a doctor for the terror group based in Raqqa, Syria.

    In the image, which was used as her profile picture but has since been removed, she can be seen wearing a full burka and white lab coat while holding the head of a middle-aged man.

    To the left of the image, two children can be seen standing beside her.
    dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2755210/British-jihadist-medical-student-21-pictured-holding-severed-head-wearing-white-doctor-s-jacket.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    Edited to reply to Sunil, as intended :)
    Germany = Italy = Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sport nations.

    Is there anything else about my post you didn't understand?
    Let me make my point clearer:

    Bavarians and Saxons play in a united German footy team (NB. Bavaria and Saxony had their own monarchies as recently as 1918)
    Lombards and Sicilians play in a united Italian footy team

    but the so-called United Kingdom isn't so "united" :)
    Your ignoring of my point is very clear. Scotland v England was THE FIRST international rugby/football match. That means the first two countries to play football/rugby were Scotland & England. Why should anyone else be able to tell them that they can't compete as separate nations? This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports.
    Why would such a UNITED Kingdom, that we are told day after day as being BETTER TOGETHER, want to compete against ITSELF?
    In case you missed it:- "This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports."

    The Scottish and English teams existed from the day these became international sports. Why would the FA or the SFA (nb not the government, or the people) agree to combining later on?
    Are we BETTER TOGETHER or not?
    Whatever, it has nothing to do with sport. Aside from the fact that Scotland will be able to have an Olympics team if they vote Yes.

    Please stop interminably bringing irrelevant sports issues to the discussion...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
    The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
    there are no tanks in Baghdad
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Heh,

    Dream on about lower living standards post-independence.

    Some things you delusionals don't get.

    Firstly, Scotland contributes far more in taxes than it gets back. So, focusing on the government spend on Scotland and ignoring income is the kind of perceptual selectivity that Little Englanders and the Tory elite are well known for - it keeps the privileges on tap.

    People are voting Yes not just because we could ran our country better than the corrupt City banksters and their political lackeys in Westminster can but because financially the case is overwhelming.

    All that aside the government spending / subsidies mask reality. For example Olympic spending was considered UK-wide rather than London. Same with all the other hidden subsidies London gets which keeps it afloat. And the costs of maintaining Trident are attributed to Scotland despite it being a UK expense. Once you get the forensic accountants in you start to see the per head government spending in Scotland is nowhere close to the propaganda bandied around.

    Interesting to note that the new boss at the BBC is being sued over involvement in laundering money for terrorists at HSBC. A political post backed by MPs - further sign that Westminster is co-opted by the financial class too. Your banksters might have control of you souls in this cleptocracy we suffer within but with any luck we Scots will show you how to deal with them.

    Go smoke a pipe for a bit.

    The quality of Nationalist posters on PB is low and you're the worst.
    It was most amusing the other day when BlackDouglas was trying to show us how knowledgeable he was about financial matters, yet managed to refer to "gilts" as "guilts".

    And how we laughed....

    Since the disappearance of OldNat there hasn't been a decent Nat poster on this forum. I miss the ghastly old codger.

    Ironic since I'd guess you were one of the primary reasons for him stopping posting.
    I'm certain he's made of sterner stuff than that. He'd be insulted by your notion.
    he did not have the missionary zeal for educating cretins like we have so gave up. He was right we are flogging dead thick horses who are uneducateable.
  • Yeh, the free lunches all go to the Tory troughers - always have. They actually can't stand capitalism as true capitalism would mean an end to their privileges. You think the Bank of England MPC is anything to do with market economics? It's a central committee of men setting interest rates. Where's the market? This is as Soviet as it gets.

    And as they continue to print money thus diluting the wealth (spending power) of the rest of us while falsely holding up asset prices, paying out bonuses and dividends (at the expense of the citizen). And when they fail like they did in 2008 and the fake markets collapse it was the taxpayer who was forced to bail them out. Where is the capitalism there? The government is picking winners and losers - that's socialism and the rich are living off socialist hand-outs cause they are too afraid to speculate without taxpayers being behind their bets.

    It's a debt bubble guys and it's burst and all your money printing ain't gonna stave off the impending decades-long contraction as rUK slips out the G8 and beyond.

    Scots are heading for the lifeboats as Titanic sinks. Oh, but you guys don't really do economics do you? It's just guffaws and old-school ties. End of the gravy train chaps - the oil is slipping through your fingers..
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    malcolmg said:

    glw said:

    John_N said:

    No should be shouting about the bank deposit protection issue from the rooftops.

    In a sense it already is, as the issue (government support and capital) is what is behind the banks plans to move south. An independent Scotland wouldn't have an economy large enough to support similar sized guarantees.

    There's basically too much banking in Scotland for its size. I think something like 25% of UK retail banking is based in Scotland, but Scotland only makes up about 8% of population. So post-independence you would expect about two-thirds of Scottish banking to redomicile in the UK.
    Exactly it is guarnteed by the BofE, they bailed those turkeys out once and they will do it the next time as well, helped by the FED of course as they don't really have the clout to do it themselves.
    Baled out those Scottish turkeys, plucked for christmas by Scottish polititians. But leaving all that aside it is Salmonds policy to rely on the Bank of England for his currency. You had better ring him up and come up with some alternative.

    As an aside, the banking sector is now better regulated by English polititians and have been building up their reserves anyway. Plus the likelyhood is there will not be a 'next time' and the newly redomiciled banks will pay back their loans and keep paying theor taxes - to the rUK treasury.
  • John_NJohn_N Posts: 389
    alex said:

    John_N said:

    as a serious point that does rather make RM a buy if it's Indy. They'll ditch a lot of the hard to reach places and profits will rise.
    Lucrative for some. Of more relevance to most people in Scotland is that addresses in remote areas here are a larger proportion of all addresses. So operating a universal-delivery service in an independent Scotland will mean that postage prices will soar.
    Well this is the point that business leaders like the JohnLewis boss were making the other day. If Scotland splits then the reality of doing business in a separate country, probably with a different currency, will take over. And these additional costs of doing business in Scotland will be passed onto Scottish consumers. Scaremongering of course.
    Agreed completely, and most of the goods I buy mail-order come from south of the border. But even the price of sending a letter from one address in Edinburgh to another address in Edinburgh will soar if there is to be a single-rate universal delivery service in iScotland.

  • Swiss_Bob said:

    If there is going to be such a large turnout I can only assume it will be 'Yes', so just put £20 on that at 4.7.

    Great bet I still think at those odds. I got 5.5 back in December.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    N

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
    The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
    there are no tanks in Baghdad
    Stuart is just shit-stirring.
  • @Sunil_Prasannan‌ it's very simple; the first international football and rugby matches ever played were Scotland-v-England matches. Why should any other Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sports nations be able to tell us that we can't play as separate countries?

    Edited to reply to Sunil, as intended :)
    Germany = Italy = Jonny-come-lately-to-our-sport nations.

    Is there anything else about my post you didn't understand?
    Let me make my point clearer:

    Bavarians and Saxons play in a united German footy team (NB. Bavaria and Saxony had their own monarchies as recently as 1918)
    Lombards and Sicilians play in a united Italian footy team

    but the so-called United Kingdom isn't so "united" :)
    Your ignoring of my point is very clear. Scotland v England was THE FIRST international rugby/football match. That means the first two countries to play football/rugby were Scotland & England. Why should anyone else be able to tell them that they can't compete as separate nations? This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports.
    Why would such a UNITED Kingdom, that we are told day after day as being BETTER TOGETHER, want to compete against ITSELF?
    In case you missed it:- "This has nothing to do with geopolitics, it is all to do with the sports."

    The Scottish and English teams existed from the day these became international sports. Why would the FA or the SFA (nb not the government, or the people) agree to combining later on?
    Are we BETTER TOGETHER or not?
    Whatever, it has nothing to do with sport. Aside from the fact that Scotland will be able to have an Olympics team if they vote Yes.

    Please stop interminably bringing irrelevant sports issues to the discussion...
    Well, it's a crying shame that such a supposedly UNITED Kingdom can't play its three most popular team sports (in virtually all instances) as a UNITED team, competing on the international stage BETTER TOGETHER.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Meanwhile, more details emerged about controversial ex-councillor Jahangir Akhtar, who denies covering up for violent adult offender Arshid Hussain.

    Hussain was named by 18 girls as their “boyfriend” when they were sent to a council organisation for the victims of paedophiles.

    In the last council elections Akhtar lost by 30 votes despite winning the postal vote by 5,000.

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/399718/Yorkshire-MEP-death-threats-Rotherham-scandal

    Wow. Some of us have been warning about the abuse of postal votes for a very long time, but if it turns out there has been vote-rigging bundled up in the political cover-up of child abuse, it could be explosive.

    PS. How many weeks is it after Rotherham and Professor Jay's warning that it likely happened in other towns, and still no action from Downing Street?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Okay, you're @SeanT‌'s sock puppet, aren't you?

    You're making Dave Spart blush now.

    Yeh, the free lunches all go to the Tory troughers - always have. They actually can't stand capitalism as true capitalism would mean an end to their privileges. You think the Bank of England MPC is anything to do with market economics? It's a central committee of men setting interest rates. Where's the market? This is as Soviet as it gets.

    And as they continue to print money thus diluting the wealth (spending power) of the rest of us while falsely holding up asset prices, paying out bonuses and dividends (at the expense of the citizen). And when they fail like they did in 2008 and the fake markets collapse it was the taxpayer who was forced to bail them out. Where is the capitalism there? The government is picking winners and losers - that's socialism and the rich are living off socialist hand-outs cause they are too afraid to speculate without taxpayers being behind their bets.

    It's a debt bubble guys and it's burst and all your money printing ain't gonna stave off the impending decades-long contraction as rUK slips out the G8 and beyond.

    Scots are heading for the lifeboats as Titanic sinks. Oh, but you guys don't really do economics do you? It's just guffaws and old-school ties. End of the gravy train chaps - the oil is slipping through your fingers..

  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
    The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
    No, the juries not out. It's preposterous to suggest that the Orange Order are allied to the neo-Nazi Klu Klux Klan. In fact, even the makers of the banner were careful to flag it as satire by putting a Sinn Féin logo on the top. But your loyalty to Mr Dickson is touching, if a little misconceived.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited September 2014

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
    "Pretty obvious" huh?

    That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.

    It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
    Stuart, one thing worries me, is that green and white Ireland badge at the top a SF one? Or also a Unionist one?
    No, Mr Dickson has shamed himself by offering an obvious piece of Irish Republican 'satire' as proof of an alliance between the Orange Order and neo-Nazis. He owes the Orange Order - and David Cameron for that matter - an apology.
    The jury still seems to be out on authenticity - but in all fairness I don't think Mr D ever mentioned the neo-Nazis, just the Klan [edit] and that only by implication in the photo.
    there are no tanks in Baghdad
    More NO campaign scare-tactics:
    "There are no banks in Edinburgh!"

    :)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    MikeK said:

    Paul Oakley UKIP ‏@PaulJamesOakley 5m
    UKIP Yorkshire MEP gets death threats for having the audacity to speak out about Rotherham child abuse scandal http://dly.st/Xgfd2G

    But we do have sectarianism and we know were most of it comes from.

    Ukip 3/1 to win Rotherham is a great bet

    They were on 21% in 2012 when none of this scandal was in the news

    I can't believe the people of Rotherham would be crazy enough to re elect the people who stood by and let it all happen ... It can't be a 75% chance in my book
    What would UKIP do to prevent it happening again?

    That is the question the good citizens of Rotherham should be asking all the political parties.
    That's as maybe, I'm more interested in the betting,

    I can't imagine people that have seen the children of the town raped by political correctness and multiculturalism voting for it again... Ukip are the main challengers and are seen as being against those theories, so I think they have a better than 25% chance of winning

This discussion has been closed.