On intimidation and possible shy No's I would suggest this.
There is a lot of fear and apprehension on the part of the BT campaigners. I have personally seen nothing to justify that.
I was talking to an older man yesterday who said he had been assaulted because he was wearing a BT badge and called an "English bastard" (he of course lives in Dundee).
People who work in the public sector are particularly apprehensive. Not only are they vigorously discouraged from expressing a view at work, they are worried about doing so out of it as well. They would not take badges yesterday.
I got quite a few anatomically uncomfortable suggestions about what to do with my leaflets yesterday. I think this is just politics.
David , as you say you have not seen any intimidation , it appears to be down to the fact that the small amount who are for NO are the timid scared of change , visionless people who are scared of shadows, imagine crime everywhere etc. The vibrant , confident people of vision are normally not scared unless it is real and they are all YES
Despicable and unwarranted intervention by AUSTRALIAN Ruper Murdoch. What promted it....revenge, malevolence...or just plain senility? Hey, Tasmania.... Feeling the yoke of mainland government grinding you down?
very amusing piece by the historian Andrew Roberts
If, as may now be likely, the remaining UK becomes a bit more federal (ie Welsh/NI MPs don't get to vote on English only matters) then we will perhaps become the Federal United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland. FUKEWNI ! Has a ring to it....
Despicable and unwarranted intervention by AUSTRALIAN Ruper Murdoch. What promted it....revenge, malevolence...or just plain senility? Hey, Tasmania.... Feeling the yoke of mainland government grinding you down?
That McKenna article is a keeper! Apparently pointing out that 'an economic whirlwind of biblical proportions will engulf the newly independent state' is 'a campaign of psychological terror'. The real underlying problem is that we all lacked the 'imagination and spirit to oppose the punish-the-vulnerable austerity strategy of the Tory-led coalition'.
You see that gorilla in the corner? It's not there really. Spend, spend, spend - in whatever currency you like!
I'm kicking myself - have to fly to Krakow for two days on business this evening. Could have gone this morning and fitted in a visit to the museum / memorial at Auschwitz, only 40 km away, had I but thought ahead. Have always wanted to see for myself. Damn!
''I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.''
How dare you interrupt MalcolmG when he's showering insults on English people and attempting to intimidate those in his own country who hold a different view from him?
On intimidation and possible shy No's I would suggest this.
There is a lot of fear and apprehension on the part of the BT campaigners. I have personally seen nothing to justify that.
I was talking to an older man yesterday who said he had been assaulted because he was wearing a BT badge and called an "English bastard" (he of course lives in Dundee).
People who work in the public sector are particularly apprehensive. Not only are they vigorously discouraged from expressing a view at work, they are worried about doing so out of it as well. They would not take badges yesterday.
I got quite a few anatomically uncomfortable suggestions about what to do with my leaflets yesterday. I think this is just politics.
David , as you say you have not seen any intimidation , it appears to be down to the fact that the small amount who are for NO are the timid scared of change , visionless people who are scared of shadows, imagine crime everywhere etc. The vibrant , confident people of vision are normally not scared unless it is real and they are all YES
I'm sure the Jews in 30's Germany were timid, scared-of-change visionless people who were scared of shadows too, imagining crime everywhere. The brown-shirts in Munich and Berlin were the vibrant confident people of vision.....
That McKenna article is a keeper! Apparently pointing out that 'an economic whirlwind of biblical proportions will engulf the newly independent state' is 'a campaign of psychological terror'. The real underlying problem is that we all lacked the 'imagination and spirit to oppose the punish-the-vulnerable austerity strategy of the Tory-led coalition'.
You see that gorilla in the corner? It's not there really. Spend, spend, spend - in whatever currency you like!
yes but who is he ?
one of the more ludicrous things in the Indyref is the way both sides wheel out C list nonentities and claim them as significant.
I might as well wheel out someone picked at random and trumpet them for No. At the end of the day it's as significant as they all have just one vote.
''I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.''
How dare you interrupt MalcolmG when he's showering insults on English people and attempting to intimidate those in his own country who hold a different view from him?
Your attitude has been noted.
Taffy even in Wales they support independence for Scotland, I expect you were not in the large crowd waving a saltire in support of Scotland.
''I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.''
How dare you interrupt MalcolmG when he's showering insults on English people and attempting to intimidate those in his own country who hold a different view from him?
Your attitude has been noted.
I did notice the photo yesterday, confirmed in the Sunday Herald this morning, of the No Popery banner in Edinburgh (or banners - the photo and the SH may have been referring to different banners).
I must admit to being just a wee bittie surprised the OO didn't have the nous to leave that out when getting on the coach.
Impressed that the moderators are allowing us to watch someone have a mental breakdown in real time. It's not something you get to see very often.
Do it elsewhere then saddo
How can I do it elsewhere, when it's happening here? You're not very bright are you, fanny breath?
Ooooooooh , scary , old saddo must have been sniffing empty beer cans , he has suddenly got some dutch courage and tries to hurl insults. Typically of these types he insults 50% of the population with his dire attempt.
Impressed that the moderators are allowing us to watch someone have a mental breakdown in real time. It's not something you get to see very often.
Do it elsewhere then saddo
How can I do it elsewhere, when it's happening here? You're not very bright are you, fanny breath?
Ooooooooh , scary , old saddo must have been sniffing empty beer cans , he has suddenly got some dutch courage and tries to hurl insults. Typically of these types he insults 50% of the population with his dire attempt.
Lunacy. Thanks to the mods for allowing this to continue, it's fascinating.
Stop the insults and bad language, You have both been previously warned and banned by Mike Smithson, for your use of language and insults.
So do what Mike Smithson has asked you to do, or your ability to instantly publish will be revoked.
I make one remark today, and you're on my neck like a ton of bricks. @MalcolmG been cussing and swearing for weeks, and only now do you pipe up when someone replies to him in his own filthy language. You can keep your blog if this is your idea of evenhandedness.
On intimidation and possible shy No's I would suggest this.
There is a lot of fear and apprehension on the part of the BT campaigners. I have personally seen nothing to justify that.
I was talking to an older man yesterday who said he had been assaulted because he was wearing a BT badge and called an "English bastard" (he of course lives in Dundee).
People who work in the public sector are particularly apprehensive. Not only are they vigorously discouraged from expressing a view at work, they are worried about doing so out of it as well. They would not take badges yesterday.
I got quite a few anatomically uncomfortable suggestions about what to do with my leaflets yesterday. I think this is just politics.
David , as you say you have not seen any intimidation , it appears to be down to the fact that the small amount who are for NO are the timid scared of change , visionless people who are scared of shadows, imagine crime everywhere etc. The vibrant , confident people of vision are normally not scared unless it is real and they are all YES
I am not afraid.
The Yes march yesterday came across as if it was fuelled by drink (in fairness it was after lunch time and being upright at that time of the day must have been a challenge for some if them. )They wanted to be like the sort of football casuals that we used to have in the 70s and 80s but they really couldn't bring off the threat for all the fake anger. Let's put it this way if I thought they were even vaguely serious I would not have had my daughter there.
On intimidation and possible shy No's I would suggest this.
There is a lot of fear and apprehension on the part of the BT campaigners. I have personally seen nothing to justify that.
I was talking to an older man yesterday who said he had been assaulted because he was wearing a BT badge and called an "English bastard" (he of course lives in Dundee).
People who work in the public sector are particularly apprehensive. Not only are they vigorously discouraged from expressing a view at work, they are worried about doing so out of it as well. They would not take badges yesterday.
I got quite a few anatomically uncomfortable suggestions about what to do with my leaflets yesterday. I think this is just politics.
David , as you say you have not seen any intimidation , it appears to be down to the fact that the small amount who are for NO are the timid scared of change , visionless people who are scared of shadows, imagine crime everywhere etc. The vibrant , confident people of vision are normally not scared unless it is real and they are all YES
I am not afraid.
The Yes march yesterday came across as if it was fuelled by drink (in fairness it was after lunch time and being upright at that time of the day must have been a challenge for some if them. )They wanted to be like the sort of football casuals that we used to have in the 70s and 80s but they really couldn't bring off the threat for all the fake anger. Let's put it this way if I thought they were even vaguely serious I would not have had my daughter there.
Dear Dear David, you show your real BT colours there, insult the plebs who support YES and insinuate they are drunkards. Very classy and explains why you see sad lonely people at BT stalls, unloved and cowering. Next you will be saying they were not as well dressed as you and had no caviar either.
Stop the insults and bad language, You have both been previously warned and banned by Mike Smithson, for your use of language and insults.
So do what Mike Smithson has asked you to do, or your ability to instantly publish will be revoked.
I make one remark today, and you're on my neck like a ton of bricks. @MalcolmG been cussing and swearing for weeks, and only now do you pipe up when someone replies to him in his own filthy language. You can keep your blog if this is your idea of evenhandedness.
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
Ha Ha Ha , Christie's local expert on Orange banners opines.
Sean F is right, its a spoof.
I'm beginning to suspect Poes Law is applicable here. Either that or it's an unhinged NO supporter trying to discredit the Yes campaign (which is a bit pointless as they can manage that very well on their own without any help).
Stop the insults and bad language, You have both been previously warned and banned by Mike Smithson, for your use of language and insults.
So do what Mike Smithson has asked you to do, or your ability to instantly publish will be revoked.
About time too - on the day a British aid worker is murdered this morning's thread has been a totally unedifying spectacle.
Boak, sick saddo felix tries to fake authority, you are an unedyfying spectacle, get help.
The experiment continues. I wonder what the outcome of a no vote will be? Will you go full tonto? Be sure to carry on posting I'd hate to miss the climax in all its carpet biting, frothing at the mouth, Technicolor glory.
On intimidation and possible shy No's I would suggest this.
There is a lot of fear and apprehension on the part of the BT campaigners. I have personally seen nothing to justify that.
I was talking to an older man yesterday who said he had been assaulted because he was wearing a BT badge and called an "English bastard" (he of course lives in Dundee).
People who work in the public sector are particularly apprehensive. Not only are they vigorously discouraged from expressing a view at work, they are worried about doing so out of it as well. They would not take badges yesterday.
I got quite a few anatomically uncomfortable suggestions about what to do with my leaflets yesterday. I think this is just politics.
David , as you say you have not seen any intimidation , it appears to be down to the fact that the small amount who are for NO are the timid scared of change , visionless people who are scared of shadows, imagine crime everywhere etc. The vibrant , confident people of vision are normally not scared unless it is real and they are all YES
I am not afraid.
The Yes march yesterday came across as if it was fuelled by drink (in fairness it was after lunch time and being upright at that time of the day must have been a challenge for some if them. )They wanted to be like the sort of football casuals that we used to have in the 70s and 80s but they really couldn't bring off the threat for all the fake anger. Let's put it this way if I thought they were even vaguely serious I would not have had my daughter there.
Dear Dear David, you show your real BT colours there, insult the plebs who support YES and insinuate they are drunkards. Very classy and explains why you see sad lonely people at BT stalls, unloved and cowering. Next you will be saying they were not as well dressed as you and had no caviar either.
Well now you mention it....
The first time I came across cavier was in Germany. We were moving into army quarters and the previous occupants had left an open jar in the fridge. Full of curiosity we put some on toast. It was salty and frankly unpleasant. We got rid of it and had raspberry jam instead. I can't honestly remember having it since.
- Rest of UK overwhelmingly opposed to currency union: 65% (76% of those who've made up their minds). Same result for Scottish MP's attending Westminster from this Friday onwards.
- Scotland should not participate in 2015 election if Yes: 70% (80% of those who have made a decision)
- UK government would not be legitimate in 2015 if dependent on Scottish MPs post Yes: 72% (86%)
- Small majority for EV4EL, with it split between a specifically new parliament, or just by limiting voting rights at Westminster.
- Non Scottish voters happy to have more devolution to Scotland.
- 38% of Labour voters who have made up their minds still think Scottish MPs should be able to vote in a post devomax parliament on English matters,
When Cameron made his comments about country before party, I suspect he had the Westminster long game in mind as much as the immediate issue of the Scottish referendum.
I'm kicking myself - have to fly to Krakow for two days on business this evening. Could have gone this morning and fitted in a visit to the museum / memorial at Auschwitz, only 40 km away, had I but thought ahead. Have always wanted to see for myself. Damn!
Teacher granddaughter took a school party (VIth formers) there two years ago. Said it was moving, but what really got to her was the pile of childrens shoes.
Alanbrooke Not a scientific poll, most polls show 16-24 year olds narrowly voting No, albeit not as strongly as 60+ voters, it is middle aged voters voting Yes
The more I read in the comments section of papers and blogs the more I want to see no win by 50.5 to 49.5 the lunatics would be fantastic to watch. The scapegoating of various groups already in low gear would go into overdrive. Sadly it would mean that my desired outcome of a narrow yes would not have happened, but you can't have everything.
Just saw a video about potential new UK flags if Scotland goes. I was unaware of the cross of St.David (gold cross on a black background) that has been an unofficial Welsh flag for centuries. The proposal based on this is simply to replace the blue in the Union Jack with black. Looks fabulous, clean and frankly not much different from today. Is now my firm favourite.
Talking about the Tory long game regarding FUKEWNI.
591 seats.
Currently:
Tory 306
Labour 217
LD 46
Others 5
NI 18
Majority = 296.
This is when the Tories "won" the election. Swings are now against the Tories. Ironically not much in Scotland.
Without Scotland, it will still be a hung parliament. THough the chances of a Tory / LD coalition is better. How much UKIP plays a part will be decisive.
An interesing article. But given the fact that most people struggle to name more than 2 cabinet ministers (or put a name to a face) just what value are these polls and what effect do these misleading 'headline figures' have. Are polls - publicly published polls - any use? Are they a danger to democracy rather than an aid? Are polls manipulating opinion according to who commissions them and how questions are framed and results announced? This may not be deliberate but an opinion survey on which brand of soap powder you like is one thing - its a definite easily defined choice. But a political poll where each passing event colours a view which is not firmly held or fully understood in the first place is a different matter. Yet despite this, 'headline figures' are splashed around. Is opinion on a knife edge or are polls stumbling in the dark?
Time to start thinking what an Indy Scotland would look like.
I've been pondering this, and I reckon it would, for the short to medium term, look almost identical to the Scotlanc we know today, only noticeably poorer.
The impoverishment would come from the instability: a collapse in investment, the 'border effect' eroding trade, the finance sector fleeing south.
The identicality arises from plain logic.
Examples: currency. After initial chaos there probably will be currency union, otherwise Scotland would collapse as its banking system implodes, infecting the rest of the FUK, but it will be a CU on English terms. So Scotland's tax rates, interest rates, borrowing, will all be set in London, as now. Only without any Scottish input.
Example 2: immigration. Scotland, according to the SNP, wants a radically different immigration policy to FUK. However this would mean a manned frontier across Britain, further screwing trade flows, so it won't happen. IScotland will be forced to adopt the same immigration policy as FUK has now.
Example 3: culture. 'British' TV and media will still dominate in iScotland, simply because they are bigger, richer and therefore more appealing to consumers. The language is the same so Scotland will just import all this. The difference is there will be virtually no Scottish voices heard in that media, unlike now.
I could go on. But you get the point.
Salmond is right in a sense. There will be few changes after independence. Except Scotland will be economically damaged (as will FUK, but less so).
Ironic.
Unfortunately you do go on and it is mainly bollocks as usual. I could just as easily say will poncy halfwits continue to live in London in rabbit hutches and continue to boast how much they are worth.
Just saw a video about potential new UK flags if Scotland goes. I was unaware of the cross of St.David (gold cross on a black background) that has been an unofficial Welsh flag for centuries. The proposal based on this is simply to replace the blue in the Union Jack with black. Looks fabulous, clean and frankly not much different from today. Is now my firm favourite.
Part of the what the UK is about is heritage. The continued use of the Union flag references that.
Plus, it will piss off the Scot Nats, especially when the burgeoning Reunionist movement in a broken bankrupt Scotland points to the flag - and that they never really left....
Oh dear, if they are the star turns, it may be time for us to let go.
Ha Ha Ha you could not describe BT any better than those two wimpy halfwit has been's being the best they have. Enough to drive anyone to YES for sure.
The more I read in the comments section of papers and blogs the more I want to see no win by 50.5 to 49.5 the lunatics would be fantastic to watch. The scapegoating of various groups already in low gear would go into overdrive. Sadly it would mean that my desired outcome of a narrow yes would not have happened, but you can't have everything.
Just saw a video about potential new UK flags if Scotland goes. I was unaware of the cross of St.David (gold cross on a black background) that has been an unofficial Welsh flag for centuries. The proposal based on this is simply to replace the blue in the Union Jack with black. Looks fabulous, clean and frankly not much different from today. Is now my firm favourite.
I am 99% sure we will keep the flag as is. Everybody likes it. And the fashion industry loves it. Brilliant branding. It will stay.
Also I sense our keeping it will slightly annoy Nats. All the more reason.
SD Why? But of course we are still in the EU. It seems an eminently sensible idea, it would certainly be great if any unionists on PB in the London area could get to Trafalgar Square for 6pm tomorrow, take children families etc, the more people there the more impact it will have, for non-Scottish residents it may be your only chance to actually do something for the union
I do think the economic damage to Scotland of independence is being seriously underestimated. Unemployment will be much higher and necessary steps to eliminate the budget deficit will need to be made much faster given the problems of no credit rating and a government run by economic illiterates who think a completely unenforceable threat to default on our debts (EU membership anyone?) is a sensible negotiating position.
Those who think it will be like before but fairer will be in for a very nasty shock. My expectation is that these consequences will start long before Independence Day arrives.
Time to go out and do my best to stop this madness from happening.
Examples: currency. After initial chaos there probably will be currency union, otherwise Scotland would collapse as its banking system implodes, infecting the rest of the FUK, but it will be a CU on English terms. So Scotland's tax rates, interest rates, borrowing, will all be set in London, as now. Only without any Scottish input.
I don't understand why it is consistently "assumed" that a Currency Union is the solution to an impending major Scottish financial crisis (infecting the rest of the UK). And that it is a currency union that the markets "want". They tried to have a currency union between CzechRep-Slovakia and it collapsed because of the capital flows out of Slovakia. Within weeks.
Surely it is far more likely that the FUK response to impending Scottish financial collapse will be to try and isolate the problem as much as possible to Scotland? Which means cutting off ties as quickly as possible. So Independence brought forward significantly (details to be worked out over the next century), creation of a new Scottish pound overnight etc etc.
If this is produced in part through significant loans from FUK to Scotland (to be paid back over the long term and secured in part against Scottish Assets (Faslane, North Sea Oil Reserves) etc then so be it.
- Rest of UK overwhelmingly opposed to currency union: 65% (76% of those who've made up their minds). Same result for Scottish MP's attending Westminster from this Friday onwards.
- Scotland should not participate in 2015 election if Yes: 70% (80% of those who have made a decision)
- UK government would not be legitimate in 2015 if dependent on Scottish MPs post Yes: 72% (86%)
- Small majority for EV4EL, with it split between a specifically new parliament, or just by limiting voting rights at Westminster.
The more I read in the comments section of papers and blogs the more I want to see no win by 50.5 to 49.5 the lunatics would be fantastic to watch. The scapegoating of various groups already in low gear would go into overdrive. Sadly it would mean that my desired outcome of a narrow yes would not have happened, but you can't have everything.
It would be a joy to behold.
the sad gits are communicating with like minded idiots
''I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.''
How dare you interrupt MalcolmG when he's showering insults on English people and attempting to intimidate those in his own country who hold a different view from him?
Your attitude has been noted.
Taffy even in Wales they support independence for Scotland, I expect you were not in the large crowd waving a saltire in support of Scotland.
Well out last night with Cardiffians and born and bred Valleys types, as a little straw poll. " Lunacy", and "Scots have lost the plot" and "I think we should be as hard on them as possible" were a views expressed. Not a single voice in favour. Hardly encouraging for Leanne Woods little ( tiny actually if you know the scale of where they were gathered in Cardiff Bay yesterday) deminstration. Now I personally do not subscribe to the " be as hard as possible " thinking, but believe me I think the vast majority here know what side their bread is buttered in this debate.
Yes, I'm not surprised. The last thing we need is more political assemblies. Lets be frank - from the outside looking in I do not see what good Welsh and Scottish Regional Assemblies have been. Currently there is little interest in local government elections. As a 'price' for Scottish 'home rule' I would simply cut the numbers of Scottish MPs in half or a third and ignore them voting on English matters. Since such MPs would have no direct input into what happens locally and in their constituency in Scotland (they don't now) they could be elected on some list system if needs be.
SD Why? But of course we are still in the EU. It seems an eminently sensible idea, it would certainly be great if any unionists on PB in the London area could get to Trafalgar Square for 6pm tomorrow, take children families etc, the more people there the more impact it will have, for non-Scottish residents it may be your only chance to actually do something for the union
HiFUD, give us a great laugh , I expect you will be easy to pick out.I look forward to splitting my sides at this ghoulfest.
Out of interest, does anyone know how many more polls are to come before the vote? I think I saw someone mention last night that we are expecting four polls on Wednesday; is anything expected before then?
SD Why? But of course we are still in the EU. It seems an eminently sensible idea, it would certainly be great if any unionists on PB in the London area could get to Trafalgar Square for 6pm tomorrow, take children families etc, the more people there the more impact it will have, for non-Scottish residents it may be your only chance to actually do something for the union
Why? If it goes well, it will be completely irrelevant and not shift a single vote either way. If only a few people turn up (and that means anything below 10,000) it will look embarrassing and desperate on YES campaign literature.
''I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.''
How dare you interrupt MalcolmG when he's showering insults on English people and attempting to intimidate those in his own country who hold a different view from him?
Your attitude has been noted.
Taffy even in Wales they support independence for Scotland, I expect you were not in the large crowd waving a saltire in support of Scotland.
Well out last night with Cardiffians and born and bred Valleys types, as a little straw poll. " Lunacy", and "Scots have lost the plot" and "I think we should be as hard on them as possible" were a views expressed. Not a single voice in favour. Hardly encouraging for Leanne Woods little ( tiny actually if you know the scale of where they were gathered in Cardiff Bay yesterday) deminstration. Now I personally do not subscribe to the " be as hard as possible " thinking, but believe me I think the vast majority here know what side their bread is buttered in this debate.
However we have resources we do not need to beg for alms and tug our forelocks. I think a supply of backbones required for Wales, get a bit of self respect.
They've not even lost yet but still manage to initiate their default Bad Loser mode:
Ukip and Robertson: 'narrow Yes vote may not mean independence'
UKIP Scotland's first MEP has sparked an outcry after he said a narrow referendum win for Yes would not be a mandate for independence.
David Coburn said Yes should have to win 60% of the vote to secure independence but anything less could only produce more powers for the Parliament.
Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, a Labour peer [ the former defence secretary and General Secretary of NATO], has also claimed there could "easily" be a legal challenge if a very close result produces a constitutional crisis.
... [the First Minister] added his ambition was to win "a convincing majority" that exceeded that margin. "I do have something [a figure] in mind but I'm going to leave it to the people," he said.
Just saw a video about potential new UK flags if Scotland goes. I was unaware of the cross of St.David (gold cross on a black background) that has been an unofficial Welsh flag for centuries. The proposal based on this is simply to replace the blue in the Union Jack with black. Looks fabulous, clean and frankly not much different from today. Is now my firm favourite.
I am 99% sure we will keep the flag as is. Everybody likes it. And the fashion industry loves it. Brilliant branding. It will stay.
Also I sense our keeping it will slightly annoy Nats. All the more reason.
LOL, we hate it you idiot, you are welcome to it
"We" projection of your beliefs onto all others is another sign of lunacy. The experiment is accelerating to its inevitable outcome on Friday.
I do think the economic damage to Scotland of independence is being seriously underestimated. Unemployment will be much higher and necessary steps to eliminate the budget deficit will need to be made much faster given the problems of no credit rating and a government run by economic illiterates who think a completely unenforceable threat to default on our debts (EU membership anyone?) is a sensible negotiating position.
Those who think it will be like before but fairer will be in for a very nasty shock. My expectation is that these consequences will start long before Independence Day arrives.
Time to go out and do my best to stop this madness from happening.
Off to sneer at people who are not as rich as you , must make you feel real smug.
MalcolmG Obviously you will dismiss it, but fair play to Dan Snow who has not been an armchair general unlike many on the NO side but got off his backside and done something, organising unity petitions across England and Wales and now this rally, based on the Canadian one in 1995, he can at least hold his head up high regardless of the result
Just saw a video about potential new UK flags if Scotland goes. I was unaware of the cross of St.David (gold cross on a black background) that has been an unofficial Welsh flag for centuries. The proposal based on this is simply to replace the blue in the Union Jack with black. Looks fabulous, clean and frankly not much different from today. Is now my firm favourite.
I am 99% sure we will keep the flag as is. Everybody likes it. And the fashion industry loves it. Brilliant branding. It will stay.
Also I sense our keeping it will slightly annoy Nats. All the more reason.
LOL, we hate it you idiot, you are welcome to it
"We" projection of your beliefs onto all others is another sign of lunacy. The experiment is accelerating to its inevitable outcome on Friday.
you really picked an appropriate name for yourself , saddo by name and saddo by nature.
MalcolmG Obviously you will dismiss it, but fair play to Dan Snow who has not been an armchair general unlike many on the NO side but got off his backside and done something, organising unity petitions across England and Wales and now this rally, based on the Canadian one in 1995, he can at least hold his head up high regardless of the result
worrying in case he does not get to inherit the vast Scottish estate from his in-laws more like, a greedy grasping unionist
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
Yes, I'm not surprised. The last thing we need is more political assemblies. Lets be frank - from the outside looking in I do not see what good Welsh and Scottish Regional Assemblies have been. Currently there is little interest in local government elections. As a 'price' for Scottish 'home rule' I would simply cut the numbers of Scottish MPs in half or a third and ignore them voting on English matters. Since such MPs would have no direct input into what happens locally and in their constituency in Scotland (they don't now) they could be elected on some list system if needs be.
Increased devolution always leads to an increased public sector. It's not just politicians, it's all the administrative and policy making structures underneath them. Powers are rarely truly properly delineated so the "higher authority" will continue to employ people to monitor what the lower levels are doing. So significant duplication of work. And huge inefficiency is created when political layers are in conflict with one another and working against one anothers interests. Especially when they don't have total control over their revenues.
This happens at the moment with local Govt. Local Govt gets its revenues from the centre and tries to maximise those revenues. They aren't particularly interested in spending it on what the centre wants, and where it is for ringfenced one-off grants have little incentive to maximise value from it.
There is also a conflict created by the cost to different layers of business and employment decisions. Central Govt will rarely benefit from outsourcing abroad because lost taxes (and potential increased benefits when the labour market is weak) will mean that is very unlikely that to do so would be cheaper. On the other hand local govt, which doesn't directly feel the impact of lost taxes and welfare costs may well do so. So one arm of the public sector entirely rationally acting against the interest of the public sector as a whole.
I think this explains in part why a solution (if it could be found) involving English MPs voting on English matters is far preferable to any new English Parliament being established.
On intimidation and possible shy No's I would suggest this.
There is a lot of fear and apprehension on the part of the BT campaigners. I have personally seen nothing to justify that.
I was talking to an older man yesterday who said he had been assaulted because he was wearing a BT badge and called an "English bastard" (he of course lives in Dundee).
People who work in the public sector are particularly apprehensive. Not only are they vigorously discouraged from expressing a view at work, they are worried about doing so out of it as well. They would not take badges yesterday.
I got quite a few anatomically uncomfortable suggestions about what to do with my leaflets yesterday. I think this is just politics.
David , as you say you have not seen any intimidation , it appears to be down to the fact that the small amount who are for NO are the timid scared of change , visionless people who are scared of shadows, imagine crime everywhere etc. The vibrant , confident people of vision are normally not scared unless it is real and they are all YES
I'm sure the Jews in 30's Germany were timid, scared-of-change visionless people who were scared of shadows too, imagining crime everywhere. The brown-shirts in Munich and Berlin were the vibrant confident people of vision.....
Mark - the nastiness being unleashed in Scotland by the YES campaign (and vividly expressed here by malcolmg) should be a warning to us all in England about the politics of hate and division.
You can tell the difference between a No and a Yes voter immediately. The Yes voter wants to talk about the election the No voter does not. The No voters are determined to vote but just want the whole election over and life to go back to normal. I am now more convinced than ever that the higher the turnout the better for No. Dry weather is good for them.
Online polls suffer from the fact that you need to be politically engaged to join one. This is a bias that may be significant in a referendum situation. The people who stand to benefit most from a Yes vote are politicians in Scotland and those who are politically engaged. The ones who will lose most are the people who just want to get on with their lives and ignore politicians.
SD Why? But of course we are still in the EU. It seems an eminently sensible idea, it would certainly be great if any unionists on PB in the London area could get to Trafalgar Square for 6pm tomorrow, take children families etc, the more people there the more impact it will have, for non-Scottish residents it may be your only chance to actually do something for the union
Why? If it goes well, it will be completely irrelevant and not shift a single vote either way. If only a few people turn up (and that means anything below 10,000) it will look embarrassing and desperate on YES campaign literature.
I do think the economic damage to Scotland of independence is being seriously underestimated. Unemployment will be much higher and necessary steps to eliminate the budget deficit will need to be made much faster given the problems of no credit rating and a government run by economic illiterates who think a completely unenforceable threat to default on our debts (EU membership anyone?) is a sensible negotiating position.
Those who think it will be like before but fairer will be in for a very nasty shock. My expectation is that these consequences will start long before Independence Day arrives.
Time to go out and do my best to stop this madness from happening.
The great irony of an independent Scotland is that by necessity, it will become a Thatcherite's wet-dream, with Salmond and Sturgeon cutting the public sector on a scale that will go beyond breath-taking.
The howling from Scotland's leftist independence cheerleaders will be ferocious. Their impotence to prevent it - magnificent to behold.....
They've not even lost yet but still manage to initiate their default Bad Loser mode:
Ukip and Robertson: 'narrow Yes vote may not mean independence'
UKIP Scotland's first MEP has sparked an outcry after he said a narrow referendum win for Yes would not be a mandate for independence.
David Coburn said Yes should have to win 60% of the vote to secure independence but anything less could only produce more powers for the Parliament.
Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, a Labour peer [ the former defence secretary and General Secretary of NATO], has also claimed there could "easily" be a legal challenge if a very close result produces a constitutional crisis.
... [the First Minister] added his ambition was to win "a convincing majority" that exceeded that margin. "I do have something [a figure] in mind but I'm going to leave it to the people," he said.
This article again makes the point that the Counting Officer has said no recount. Just can't see that holding on the night if very close.
But the idea that there will not be separation if 'Yes' only win by a narrow margin is for the birds IMHO. Complete nonsense. Cameron specifically made it a straight in/out vote with no caveats on turn-out or majority.
Just saw a video about potential new UK flags if Scotland goes. I was unaware of the cross of St.David (gold cross on a black background) that has been an unofficial Welsh flag for centuries. The proposal based on this is simply to replace the blue in the Union Jack with black. Looks fabulous, clean and frankly not much different from today. Is now my firm favourite.
I am 99% sure we will keep the flag as is. Everybody likes it. And the fashion industry loves it. Brilliant branding. It will stay.
Also I sense our keeping it will slightly annoy Nats. All the more reason.
Hmm....The Union Jack is probably the No.1 design icon of all time. Truly brilliant. Yes the fashion industry loves it and you see shirts, bags, ipad covers, etc the world over. It just looks lovely. But for me the real genius is the way that the crosses and saltires were mixed. Red, white and DARK blue works from a graphics design / colour palette point of view really nicely. (Note that the Scottish saltire's background is a notably lighter shade of blue and one that wouldn't really work on the Union Jack). None of that would be lost to a black background brand refresh giving a nod to Wales. Our new flag would be different - but basically the same. And still brilliant. I expect to see red, white and black Union Jack t-shirts on sale in Beijing by Monday!
Out of interest, does anyone know how many more polls are to come before the vote? I think I saw someone mention last night that we are expecting four polls on Wednesday; is anything expected before then?
Not that I'm aware off but I'm keeping my eyes on the columnists at the Telegraph just in case.
The more I read in the comments section of papers and blogs the more I want to see no win by 50.5 to 49.5 the lunatics would be fantastic to watch. The scapegoating of various groups already in low gear would go into overdrive. Sadly it would mean that my desired outcome of a narrow yes would not have happened, but you can't have everything.
''I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.''
How dare you interrupt MalcolmG when he's showering insults on English people and attempting to intimidate those in his own country who hold a different view from him?
Your attitude has been noted.
Taffy even in Wales they support independence for Scotland, I expect you were not in the large crowd waving a saltire in support of Scotland.
Well out last night with Cardiffians and born and bred Valleys types, as a little straw poll. " Lunacy", and "Scots have lost the plot" and "I think we should be as hard on them as possible" were a views expressed. Not a single voice in favour. Hardly encouraging for Leanne Woods little ( tiny actually if you know the scale of where they were gathered in Cardiff Bay yesterday) deminstration. Now I personally do not subscribe to the " be as hard as possible " thinking, but believe me I think the vast majority here know what side their bread is buttered in this debate.
However we have resources we do not need to beg for alms and tug our forelocks. I think a supply of backbones required for Wales, get a bit of self respect.
I do think the economic damage to Scotland of independence is being seriously underestimated. Unemployment will be much higher and necessary steps to eliminate the budget deficit will need to be made much faster given the problems of no credit rating and a government run by economic illiterates who think a completely unenforceable threat to default on our debts (EU membership anyone?) is a sensible negotiating position.
Those who think it will be like before but fairer will be in for a very nasty shock. My expectation is that these consequences will start long before Independence Day arrives.
Time to go out and do my best to stop this madness from happening.
David I feel for you. You seem an oasis of sanity in a world gone mad up there.
Just saw a video about potential new UK flags if Scotland goes. I was unaware of the cross of St.David (gold cross on a black background) that has been an unofficial Welsh flag for centuries. The proposal based on this is simply to replace the blue in the Union Jack with black. Looks fabulous, clean and frankly not much different from today. Is now my firm favourite.
I am 99% sure we will keep the flag as is. Everybody likes it. And the fashion industry loves it. Brilliant branding. It will stay.
Also I sense our keeping it will slightly annoy Nats. All the more reason.
Hmm....The Union Jack is probably the No.1 design icon of all time. Truly brilliant. Yes the fashion industry loves it and you see shirts, bags, ipad covers, etc the world over. It just looks lovely. But for me the real genius is the way that the crosses and saltires were mixed. Red, white and DARK blue works from a graphics design / colour palette point of view really nicely. (Note that the Scottish saltire's background is a notably lighter shade of blue and one that wouldn't really work on the Union Jack). None of that would be lost to a black background brand refresh giving a nod to Wales. Our new flag would be different - but basically the same. And still brilliant. I expect to see red, white and black Union Jack t-shirts on sale in Beijing by Monday!
If needs be I thinkl you are right. I see no problem and it would get my vote, just vary slightly the blue colour and width/position of the white cross. The blue can represent our surrounding seas if you need a reason. Also it would mean we would not need to change it when the Scots ask to come back. Cameron is wrong whan he says a break would be for ever. Its the reunion which would have to be negotiated 'for ever' and in my opinion with no devolution.
I think it's pretty obvious that's not a genuine Orange Banner. In all likelihood, it's a spoof by Irish Republicans.
"Pretty obvious" huh?
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
for a start off the photos in Ireland you pillock.
The Sinn Fein logo of a UI is on the top of the banner.
If you ever wanted a metaphor for all the Bettertogether closed meetings, the ducking out from debates, the pronouncements by Cameron & co to invited audiences, the blacked out Ranger Rovers transporting them from safe haven to safe haven and the love bombs launched from London, it's an event for rUKanians to tell the Scots how much they love them coming from, wait for it, Trafalgar Square.
Comments
The vibrant , confident people of vision are normally not scared unless it is real and they are all YES
Bricks through windows: ZERO
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/14/kevin-mckenna-why-i-am-voting-yes-for-scottish-independence?CMP=twt_gu
You see that gorilla in the corner? It's not there really. Spend, spend, spend - in whatever currency you like!
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/why-isnt-project-fear-working-take-a-bow-george-osborne.25314691
Also in the same issue of the SH an interesting and not uncritical review of Mr Salmond,
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/is-the-bbcs-coverage-biased-yes-absolutely-dont-get-me-wrong-i-like-these-f.25322002
and a look at RBSgate
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/an-explosive-breach-of-the-rules-salmond-blasts-treasury-as-its-bbc-email-is-exposed.25315637
How dare you interrupt MalcolmG when he's showering insults on English people and attempting to intimidate those in his own country who hold a different view from him?
Your attitude has been noted.
one of the more ludicrous things in the Indyref is the way both sides wheel out C list nonentities and claim them as significant.
I might as well wheel out someone picked at random and trumpet them for No. At the end of the day it's as significant as they all have just one vote.
I must admit to being just a wee bittie surprised the OO didn't have the nous to leave that out when getting on the coach.
Stop the insults and bad language, You have both been previously warned and banned by Mike Smithson, for your use of language and insults.
So do what Mike Smithson has asked you to do, or your ability to instantly publish will be revoked.
No. even though born and bred in Wales and a card carrying Welshman I live in England.
Unlike you I am under no illusions as to the utterly pathetic state of my country right now.
It grieves me greatly.
@MalcolmG been cussing and swearing for weeks, and only now do you pipe up when someone replies to him in his own filthy language. You can keep your blog if this is your idea of evenhandedness.
The Yes march yesterday came across as if it was fuelled by drink (in fairness it was after lunch time and being upright at that time of the day must have been a challenge for some if them. )They wanted to be like the sort of football casuals that we used to have in the 70s and 80s but they really couldn't bring off the threat for all the fake anger. Let's put it this way if I thought they were even vaguely serious I would not have had my daughter there.
Rotherham ‘seized files in grooming cover-up’ http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4190365.ece …
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
The first time I came across cavier was in Germany. We were moving into army quarters and the previous occupants had left an open jar in the fridge. Full of curiosity we put some on toast. It was salty and frankly unpleasant. We got rid of it and had raspberry jam instead. I can't honestly remember having it since.
- Rest of UK overwhelmingly opposed to currency union: 65% (76% of those who've made up their minds). Same result for Scottish MP's attending Westminster from this Friday onwards.
- Scotland should not participate in 2015 election if Yes: 70% (80% of those who have made a decision)
- UK government would not be legitimate in 2015 if dependent on Scottish MPs post Yes: 72% (86%)
- Small majority for EV4EL, with it split between a specifically new parliament, or just by limiting voting rights at Westminster.
- Regional assemblies attracts negligible preference.
- Non Scottish voters happy to have more devolution to Scotland.
- 38% of Labour voters who have made up their minds still think Scottish MPs should be able to vote in a post devomax parliament on English matters,
When Cameron made his comments about country before party, I suspect he had the Westminster long game in mind as much as the immediate issue of the Scottish referendum.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zE1LbC4Fvs
I've not directly linked as it is a bit gory.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/09/13/groundskeeper_willie_for_scottish_independence_the_simpsons_janitor_discusses.html
The two words "Eddie" and "Izzard" are also a bit of a clue.
Meltdown time.
591 seats.
Currently:
Tory 306
Labour 217
LD 46
Others 5
NI 18
Majority = 296.
This is when the Tories "won" the election. Swings are now against the Tories. Ironically not much in Scotland.
Without Scotland, it will still be a hung parliament. THough the chances of a Tory / LD coalition is better. How much UKIP plays a part will be decisive.
Of course, after YES, all bets are off.
Are polls - publicly published polls - any use? Are they a danger to democracy rather than an aid? Are polls manipulating opinion according to who commissions them and how questions are framed and results announced?
This may not be deliberate but an opinion survey on which brand of soap powder you like is one thing - its a definite easily defined choice. But a political poll where each passing event colours a view which is not firmly held or fully understood in the first place is a different matter. Yet despite this, 'headline figures' are splashed around. Is opinion on a knife edge or are polls stumbling in the dark?
Plus, it will piss off the Scot Nats, especially when the burgeoning Reunionist movement in a broken bankrupt Scotland points to the flag - and that they never really left....
Those who think it will be like before but fairer will be in for a very nasty shock. My expectation is that these consequences will start long before Independence Day arrives.
Time to go out and do my best to stop this madness from happening.
Surely it is far more likely that the FUK response to impending Scottish financial collapse will be to try and isolate the problem as much as possible to Scotland? Which means cutting off ties as quickly as possible. So Independence brought forward significantly (details to be worked out over the next century), creation of a new Scottish pound overnight etc etc.
If this is produced in part through significant loans from FUK to Scotland (to be paid back over the long term and secured in part against Scottish Assets (Faslane, North Sea Oil Reserves) etc then so be it.
Con/UKIP landslide on the way at Westminster?
As a 'price' for Scottish 'home rule' I would simply cut the numbers of Scottish MPs in half or a third and ignore them voting on English matters. Since such MPs would have no direct input into what happens locally and in their constituency in Scotland (they don't now) they could be elected on some list system if needs be.
Ukip and Robertson: 'narrow Yes vote may not mean independence'
UKIP Scotland's first MEP has sparked an outcry after he said a narrow referendum win for Yes would not be a mandate for independence.
David Coburn said Yes should have to win 60% of the vote to secure independence but anything less could only produce more powers for the Parliament.
Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, a Labour peer [ the former defence secretary and General Secretary of NATO], has also claimed there could "easily" be a legal challenge if a very close result produces a constitutional crisis.
... [the First Minister] added his ambition was to win "a convincing majority" that exceeded that margin. "I do have something [a figure] in mind but I'm going to leave it to the people," he said.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/ukip-and-robertson-narrow-yes-vote-may-not-mean-independence.25313695
That photograph has been very widely spread on social media, and very heavily commented on. I have never seen anyone else ever question its authenticity, from either side.
It is in fact very obvious that it is genuine. And these are the folks that form the backbone of the Bitter Together campaign in large chunks of the Central Belt.
This happens at the moment with local Govt. Local Govt gets its revenues from the centre and tries to maximise those revenues. They aren't particularly interested in spending it on what the centre wants, and where it is for ringfenced one-off grants have little incentive to maximise value from it.
There is also a conflict created by the cost to different layers of business and employment decisions. Central Govt will rarely benefit from outsourcing abroad because lost taxes (and potential increased benefits when the labour market is weak) will mean that is very unlikely that to do so would be cheaper. On the other hand local govt, which doesn't directly feel the impact of lost taxes and welfare costs may well do so. So one arm of the public sector entirely rationally acting against the interest of the public sector as a whole.
I think this explains in part why a solution (if it could be found) involving English MPs voting on English matters is far preferable to any new English Parliament being established.
Online polls suffer from the fact that you need to be politically engaged to join one. This is a bias that may be significant in a referendum situation. The people who stand to benefit most from a Yes vote are politicians in Scotland and those who are politically engaged. The ones who will lose most are the people who just want to get on with their lives and ignore politicians.
The howling from Scotland's leftist independence cheerleaders will be ferocious. Their impotence to prevent it - magnificent to behold.....
But the idea that there will not be separation if 'Yes' only win by a narrow margin is for the birds IMHO. Complete nonsense. Cameron specifically made it a straight in/out vote with no caveats on turn-out or majority.
You won't be needing a currency union, then. The markets should be only too happy to accept a new currency.
The Welsh, from Lloyd George on, are mostly pragmatists. We know that without English money we are Moldova.
They'd have no need to make them up - just repost all of malcolmg's for Our SNP Correspondent.
"Andrew Gilligan - Yes campaign as dodgy as Iraq dossier"
He has a point.
Agreed, even if as a welshman I've always been a bit miffed that there is no Welsh representation on it.
Also it would mean we would not need to change it when the Scots ask to come back. Cameron is wrong whan he says a break would be for ever. Its the reunion which would have to be negotiated 'for ever' and in my opinion with no devolution.
The Sinn Fein logo of a UI is on the top of the banner.
#dicksonhead.