'The PM of the UK who presided over the end of the UK. If that's not something he should resign for I don't know what is. He has been unbelievably useless throughout the campaign.'
Do you think the average rUK voter gives a toss whether Scotland stays or goes?
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Why not? Essex has a population larger than several US states and nobody thinks it strange they each have their own education systems, police forces etc etc.
'So more people believe that Miliband should resign?? That has to be angry Labourites. '
It's Labour voters that will swing the result for Yes,he will permanently lose 40 of his MP's & it will be very difficult for Labour to get an overall majority in rUK.
They've done so many times before - you are over egging the point.
Purely as a point of discussion, SeanT reckons England will shift "right" politically in the event of a yes. I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex
That's a really interesting question. I agree with the general concensus that Scotland is more socially conservative than England, and a little more left wing on economic issues but the difference is frequently exaggerated. And I suspect in the event of independence, that when things have settled down a broad right of centre Scottish party post independence, and a broad centre left party in rUK could quite feasibly both be in power at the same time
Tory-UKIP is a Coalition made in heaven, just waiting to happen, which already commands a majority of public opinion, and voter intention, in England. I predict it will only grow after a YES.
The one thing stopping this obvious Coalition is the metrosexual, Old Etonian tendency in the Tory party, epitomised by Cameron, who worry more about polite opinion in Primrose Hill and Ladbroke Grove. He and they will be swept away after a YES.
The one thing stopping it is FPTP. PR and a post-election coalition rather than a pre-election pact would make far more sense.
Ed started campaigning in Scotland last week, and Friday afternoon, Roger said no would win and it has been downhill for No ever since.
Has our PM campaigned yet?
If not why?
Labour have,what a great job they doing for the yes vote ;-)
Anyone who cant see how toxic Tory policies like the bedroom tax and NHS private sector involvement are in Scotland deserves to lose a lot of money on No IMHO
Great argument, except both are totally devolved matters...
A No win by a point or two isn't worth having. It will just lead to immense bitterness about English living in Scotland, or the BBC, or wicked banker Tories, or a million and one other reasons to harbour. On top of which, it'll also lead to an even more unbalanced DevoMax offer, which itself will no doubt offer new causes for disagreement.
I would have liked Scotland to stay but all things considered, it might be best having the Nats outside the tent pissing in, than inside the tent pissing in.
I agree. A big, messy, post-referendum-no DevoMax bust up will only work in the nationalists favour and lead to another referendum within 10-20 years.
I think, sadly, that I agree with you. Scotland would be better to go now.
@cathynewman: Enjoyed interviewing Gordon Brown tonight, though he walked off with our mic. We managed to catch him before he called me a bigoted woman...
'The PM of the UK who presided over the end of the UK. If that's not something he should resign for I don't know what is. He has been unbelievably useless throughout the campaign.'
Do you think the average rUK voter gives a toss whether Scotland stays or goes?
If they don't - and sadly many do not - then the Yes side are right that the Union is not worth saving. That is the most depressing thing from my perspective. There won't even be time to change it to make it work for people again.
If Dave goes and the Tories want to show the country they aren't a bunch of posh Buller boys, what better than electing the Northern working class Muslim son of an immigrant
Hence why Sajid is a good bet
Hmm. I'd like to think you were right, but I very much doubt he'd get the grass roots support.
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Why not? Essex has a population larger than several US states and nobody thinks it strange they each have their own education systems, police forces etc etc.
In a federal UK like that, England may cease to exist!
If Dave goes and the Tories want to show the country they aren't a bunch of posh Buller boys, what better than electing the Northern working class Muslim son of an immigrant
Hence why Sajid is a good bet
Hmm. I'd like to think you were right, but I very much doubt he'd get the grass roots support.
@cathynewman: Enjoyed interviewing Gordon Brown tonight, though he walked off with our mic. We managed to catch him before he called me a bigoted woman...
I think that joke is well past its sell by date. FWIW the woman he called a bigot was a bigot.
So based on current trends, Yes are looking at like a 20 point lead, right?
In all seriousness, I think it's too late to change things. The momentum has taken hold, the narrative of Yes has been adopted, and as we've seen from their steady march in all these decades, once it takes hold, people have that fervour for the long term.
Now just a question of what Wales can be offered to stop them going further, but once Scotland goes it's hard to not see them going as well at some point - Scotland will do fine in the long term, and they have all the time in the world, it is not as though Wales will become less Labour dominated (unless it is to PC), so if England is tacking right, they will feel even more distinct before too long.
Perhaps we can at least prevent Cornwell splintering off in the long run? Yorkshire?
For the umpteenth time do not read Wales equals Scotland. Looks like there'll be a bit more tax raising but the latest test of opinion ( BBC Wales poll in about March I think) showed all of five percent in favour of independence rising to about seven or eight if Scotland left. The economics is up for debate in Scotland, in Wales it isn't. Plaid are nowhere close to the SNP's position, hopelessly led (IMO), there's a possible linguistic divide, and about 30% of the voters were not born in Wales - the vast majority of those in England. There will be changes round the edges but Wales ain't going anywhere fast.
Agree with that, and also Welsh geography means that South Wales has far more in common with Bristol than N Wales. Ditto N Wales with Liverpool / Manchester than S Wales. Has anyone driven along the length of that great north south Wales road the A470?! 5 hours or more along its whole length!
A470 - yes I bloody well have. It's unending! But your right about the geography. Cardiff is two and a half/ three hours from N London and five from Anglesey.
Ed started campaigning in Scotland last week, and Friday afternoon, Roger said no would win and it has been downhill for No ever since.
Has our PM campaigned yet?
If not why?
Labour have,what a great job they doing for the yes vote ;-)
Anyone who cant see how toxic Tory policies like the bedroom tax and NHS private sector involvement are in Scotland deserves to lose a lot of money on No IMHO
If the Coalition's reforms to healthcare, which is a devolved matter, made a difference then there was no hope of a rational argument.
I think a turning point in the second debate was when ECK called out Darling for trying to defend Tory NHS policy. Not possible to defend in Scotland.
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Why not? Essex has a population larger than several US states and nobody thinks it strange they each have their own education systems, police forces etc etc.
Police forces are already county-based so you don't need federalization for that. As for education, the US educational reform movement is currently trying to push its whole system to having a Common Core, because they know the disaggregated system works so poorly.
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Why not? Essex has a population larger than several US states and nobody thinks it strange they each have their own education systems, police forces etc etc.
In a federal UK like that, England may cease to exist!
Gordon Brown ready to deploy the campaigning nous that won Labour 29% of the vote at the last election.
Completely irrelevant. This is a Scottish vote. Brown is well regarded North of the Wall.
Remember Brown actually did very well in Scotland in 2010 - Labour held every seat. He also, I think, has higher "trust" ratings in Scotland than Salmond. He is the only person capable of swinging it for No. I think from now on you will see BT represented by Brown and Yes by Sturgeon.
A No win by a point or two isn't worth having. It will just lead to immense bitterness about English living in Scotland, or the BBC, or wicked banker Tories, or a million and one other reasons to harbour. On top of which, it'll also lead to an even more unbalanced DevoMax offer, which itself will no doubt offer new causes for disagreement.
I would have liked Scotland to stay but all things considered, it might be best having the Nats outside the tent pissing in, than inside the tent pissing in.
You think a Yes win by a point won't lead to immense bitterness?
@cathynewman: Enjoyed interviewing Gordon Brown tonight, though he walked off with our mic. We managed to catch him before he called me a bigoted woman...
I think that joke is well past its sell by date. FWIW the woman he called a bigot was a bigot.
That he afterwards said she wasn't, that he had mistaken her comments, somewhat undermines the ability to make that argument even if it is true, and means the joke's legs continue on.
Purely as a point of discussion, SeanT reckons England will shift "right" politically in the event of a yes. I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex
The counties (however you define them) are ultimately a tool for local government. not national. Realistically, the furthest you could devolve is to the England-Wales-Scotland-Northern Ireland level. If you went further down to the level of, say, Yorkshire (all of them), or Northumbria or Cornwall you then run slap-bang into the middle of the London Problem - it's too big. Even a plausible lower split (Oop North versus Soft Southern Basterds, say) wouldn't really work.
If Dave goes and the Tories want to show the country they aren't a bunch of posh Buller boys, what better than electing the Northern working class Muslim son of an immigrant
Hence why Sajid is a good bet
Hmm. I'd like to think you were right, but I very much doubt he'd get the grass roots support.
He would.
Remember our discussion on the booing of Moeen Ali?
'Munir Ali, Moeen’s father, told ESPNcricinfo. “We are very disappointed with what happened. It should have been a special day: Moeen was playing for his country in the city of his birth. It is the city I was born in and the city my mother was born in. The whole family was looking forward to it and we thought he would receive a warm welcome.
“Instead he was abused from the start. He was abused because he is a Muslim and because of his Pakistan heritage. That is disgraceful." '
A No win by a point or two isn't worth having. It will just lead to immense bitterness about English living in Scotland, or the BBC, or wicked banker Tories, or a million and one other reasons to harbour. On top of which, it'll also lead to an even more unbalanced DevoMax offer, which itself will no doubt offer new causes for disagreement.
I would have liked Scotland to stay but all things considered, it might be best having the Nats outside the tent pissing in, than inside the tent pissing in.
You think a Yes win by a point won't lead to immense bitterness?
Yes, but that would be entirely Scotland's problem.
Massive financial turmoil between now and the 19th north (and south) of the border could be a godsend for no. All we need is another poll we YES ahead and we would have it.
Just out of interest if it is Yes by 3 or less, are there any odds on a ratification referendum after some negotiations?
@cathynewman: Enjoyed interviewing Gordon Brown tonight, though he walked off with our mic. We managed to catch him before he called me a bigoted woman...
I think that joke is well past its sell by date. FWIW the woman he called a bigot was a bigot.
That he afterwards said she wasn't, that he had mistaken her comments, somewhat undermines the ability to make that argument even if it is true, and means the joke's legs continue on.
Then he was wrong to revise his view. She was a bigot.
Purely as a point of discussion, SeanT reckons England will shift "right" politically in the event of a yes. I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex
The counties (however you define them) are ultimately a tool for local government. not national. Realistically, the furthest you could devolve is to the England-Wales-Scotland-Northern Ireland level. If you went further down to the level of, say, Yorkshire (all of them), or Northumbria or Cornwall you then run slap-bang into the middle of the London Problem - it's too big. Even a plausible lower split (Oop North versus Soft Southern Basterds, say) wouldn't really work.
A No win by a point or two isn't worth having. It will just lead to immense bitterness about English living in Scotland, or the BBC, or wicked banker Tories, or a million and one other reasons to harbour. On top of which, it'll also lead to an even more unbalanced DevoMax offer, which itself will no doubt offer new causes for disagreement.
I would have liked Scotland to stay but all things considered, it might be best having the Nats outside the tent pissing in, than inside the tent pissing in.
You think a Yes win by a point won't lead to immense bitterness?
I'm sure it will - but I'd rather have it as an international problem than a domestic one.
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Why not? Essex has a population larger than several US states and nobody thinks it strange they each have their own education systems, police forces etc etc.
Police forces are already county-based so you don't need federalization for that. As for education, the US educational reform movement is currently trying to push its whole system to having a Common Core, because they know the disaggregated system works so poorly.
You could easily have: Scottish parliament on equal footing with an English one and a Welsh one, that determine law and overall budgets Then within England devolve some powers and budgets to regions/counties
If Dave goes and the Tories want to show the country they aren't a bunch of posh Buller boys, what better than electing the Northern working class Muslim son of an immigrant
Hence why Sajid is a good bet
Hmm. I'd like to think you were right, but I very much doubt he'd get the grass roots support.
He would.
Remember our discussion on the booing of Moeen Ali?
'Munir Ali, Moeen’s father, told ESPNcricinfo. “We are very disappointed with what happened. It should have been a special day: Moeen was playing for his country in the city of his birth. It is the city I was born in and the city my mother was born in. The whole family was looking forward to it and we thought he would receive a warm welcome.
“Instead he was abused from the start. He was abused because he is a Muslim and because of his Pakistan heritage. That is disgraceful." '
Some 30 per cent now believe Mr Cameron should quit as Prime Minister in the case of a Yes vote - up from 22 per cent on Friday, the YouGov poll for The Sun found.
Half (50 per cent) think he should remain as PM while the rest (21 per cent) don’t know.
Meanwhile 31 per cent believe Ed Miliband should resign as Labour leader if Scotland quits the UK, with 47 per cent say he should stay.
"It is difficult to overstate how weak Mr Cameron’s leadership and strategy have been throughout [the indyref campaign]. He has never made a sustained argument for the continuation of the United Kingdom. What is now clear is that his decision in 2012 to veto a second question on the ballot paper asking Scots if they would accept further devolution was a strategic blunder."
He's toast, after a YES. He might just try and cling on but the tide will utterly overwhelm him.
We should, however, consider the alternative. Such is the bile being spat at Cameron and Osborne, if he now gets a NO, his position will be enhanced, and he might even get a big boost in the polls.
It's double or quits.
The FT, that hasn't supported the tories since 1992?
The one where the editor, a old boy of Dulwich College, has a personal dislike for the Tories and all that they stand for?
'They will give a toss when they see the £ tanking, the stock market in chaos, investors fleeing, the property market roiled. Etc'
FFSSS your getting over excited,you really believe Scotland leaving the union will have a greater impact on the economy than the banking collapse in 2008!
@FrancisUrquhart The "bedroom tax" is a UK decision, Scotland has to fund any reduction in it's effects from the Scottish budget.
No, the Scottish government now have the power to set the cap on discretionary housing payments (DHP) to help people on housing benefit who need extra help. Its their choice how they spend the overall budget.
Some 30 per cent now believe Mr Cameron should quit as Prime Minister in the case of a Yes vote - up from 22 per cent on Friday, the YouGov poll for The Sun found.
Half (50 per cent) think he should remain as PM while the rest (21 per cent) don’t know.
Meanwhile 31 per cent believe Ed Miliband should resign as Labour leader if Scotland quits the UK, with 47 per cent say he should stay.
"It is difficult to overstate how weak Mr Cameron’s leadership and strategy have been throughout [the indyref campaign]. He has never made a sustained argument for the continuation of the United Kingdom. What is now clear is that his decision in 2012 to veto a second question on the ballot paper asking Scots if they would accept further devolution was a strategic blunder."
He's toast, after a YES. He might just try and cling on but the tide will utterly overwhelm him.
We should, however, consider the alternative. Such is the bile being spat at Cameron and Osborne, if he now gets a NO, his position will be enhanced, and he might even get a big boost in the polls.
It's double or quits.
The FT, that hasn't supported the tories since 1992?
The one where the editor, a old boy of Dulwich College, has a personal dislike for the Tories and all that they stand for?
Purely as a point of discussion, SeanT reckons England will shift "right" politically in the event of a yes. I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex
The counties (however you define them) are ultimately a tool for local government. not national. Realistically, the furthest you could devolve is to the England-Wales-Scotland-Northern Ireland level. If you went further down to the level of, say, Yorkshire (all of them), or Northumbria or Cornwall you then run slap-bang into the middle of the London Problem - it's too big. Even a plausible lower split (Oop North versus Soft Southern Basterds, say) wouldn't really work.
At least the disparity between the 'states' of the UK would be much smaller, as opposed to England vs Scotland that we have now. Scotland would become one of the larger states...
Purely as a point of discussion, SeanT reckons England will shift "right" politically in the event of a yes. I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex
The counties (however you define them) are ultimately a tool for local government. not national. Realistically, the furthest you could devolve is to the England-Wales-Scotland-Northern Ireland level. If you went further down to the level of, say, Yorkshire (all of them), or Northumbria or Cornwall you then run slap-bang into the middle of the London Problem - it's too big. Even a plausible lower split (Oop North versus Soft Southern Basterds, say) wouldn't really work.
London isn't too big. You could quite happily have English regions based loosely on the Euro-constituencies with referendums on border areas as to which region they'd prefer to be in, and with a special case for Cornwall which might be tiny numerically but is a clear GB-nation.
@cathynewman: Enjoyed interviewing Gordon Brown tonight, though he walked off with our mic. We managed to catch him before he called me a bigoted woman...
I think that joke is well past its sell by date. FWIW the woman he called a bigot was a bigot.
That he afterwards said she wasn't, that he had mistaken her comments, somewhat undermines the ability to make that argument even if it is true, and means the joke's legs continue on.
Then he was wrong to revise his view. She was a bigot.
On what basis do you form that opinion? Do you know her personally? She was worried about Eastern Europeans "flocking here", and she has a right to be concerned, given that northern England, in particular, has recently experienced some of the highest and most dramatic levels of immigration in British history.
Some 30 per cent now believe Mr Cameron should quit as Prime Minister in the case of a Yes vote - up from 22 per cent on Friday, the YouGov poll for The Sun found.
Half (50 per cent) think he should remain as PM while the rest (21 per cent) don’t know.
Meanwhile 31 per cent believe Ed Miliband should resign as Labour leader if Scotland quits the UK, with 47 per cent say he should stay.
"It is difficult to overstate how weak Mr Cameron’s leadership and strategy have been throughout [the indyref campaign]. He has never made a sustained argument for the continuation of the United Kingdom. What is now clear is that his decision in 2012 to veto a second question on the ballot paper asking Scots if they would accept further devolution was a strategic blunder."
He's toast, after a YES. He might just try and cling on but the tide will utterly overwhelm him.
We should, however, consider the alternative. Such is the bile being spat at Cameron and Osborne, if he now gets a NO, his position will be enhanced, and he might even get a big boost in the polls.
It's double or quits.
And also don't forget that the vast majority of people in SLAB in 1997 thought that devolution would kill any independence movement stone dead - how outdated does that look now?!! Yet another area where Salmond and the SNP were light years ahead of their political opposition.
The Scottish people wanted devolution. The UK gave the party offering it a landslide majority. Devolution was neither a mistake by Labour nor an ingenious trick by the SNP.
There was a significant strand of opinion in the SNP that wanted independence straight without devolution in times gone by though. Salmond and co had to win a battle of the gradualists against the fundamentalists over devolution.
'The PM of the UK who presided over the end of the UK. If that's not something he should resign for I don't know what is. He has been unbelievably useless throughout the campaign.'
Do you think the average rUK voter gives a toss whether Scotland stays or goes?
FFSSSSSS
They will give a toss when they see the £ tanking, the stock market in chaos, investors fleeing, the property market roiled. Etc.
When's Godzilla going to emerge from the sea?
You do get a bit over excited, and exaggerate sometimes. 3% of the population might be leaving us for pastures new. Good luck to them.
Some 30 per cent now believe Mr Cameron should quit ... Meanwhile 31 per cent believe Ed Miliband should resign as Labour leader ....
I fail to see why either should resign. Scotland seems to have been edging closer and closer to an independence vote for as long as I can remember. It is just that up to this point no one was prepared to believe that a post indy Scotland was viable.
Didn't Dave say he would quit if he lost the Union?
Mind you he also promised no Top Down NHS reorganisation
Not like you to make something up so you can criticize.
By the way did you ever provide an answer to which party pioneered the bedroom tax and NHS privatization?
I'll be back in the morning to check no rush for the answer, any time tonight will do.
Not sure what you mean.
Thought Tories were proud of Privatization. Definitely responsible for NHS private sector involvemant
Think Tories introduced the bedroom tax even though they called it spare room subsidy
Perhaps your amazing revelations that this is not the case could save the Union am sure the Scots are open to be persuaded
From Hestiltine, Adonis, Jim O'Neill or whoever, there will certainly be significant devolution of powers to regions like Greater Manchester sooner rather than later.
@Freggles For those in power. "devolve" is a filthy word that makes their skin crawl. All that climbing the greasy pole to achieve power, then you give it away? You might as well ask the rich to pay taxes.
The Mail. The Indy. ? Do you want to re-evaluate your remarks? Brown is the agreed mouthpiece for the two (well three) main parties who will have to agree some sort of unity to the principle. I seem to remember Cameron pretty much saying what Brown has just said when the referendum was announced. Question is, do people want to see Labour in charge of sticking us closer to the EU at the same time as giving bits of our soverignty to Scotland? Do we really think the WLQ will be properly answered by Labour? What the usual hysteria on Webpages like here indicates is the happiness of the right to commit hara-kari
Some 30 per cent now believe Mr Cameron should quit as Prime Minister in the case of a Yes vote - up from 22 per cent on Friday, the YouGov poll for The Sun found.
Half (50 per cent) think he should remain as PM while the rest (21 per cent) don’t know.
Meanwhile 31 per cent believe Ed Miliband should resign as Labour leader if Scotland quits the UK, with 47 per cent say he should stay.
"It is difficult to overstate how weak Mr Cameron’s leadership and strategy have been throughout [the indyref campaign]. He has never made a sustained argument for the continuation of the United Kingdom. What is now clear is that his decision in 2012 to veto a second question on the ballot paper asking Scots if they would accept further devolution was a strategic blunder."
He's toast, after a YES. He might just try and cling on but the tide will utterly overwhelm him.
We should, however, consider the alternative. Such is the bile being spat at Cameron and Osborne, if he now gets a NO, his position will be enhanced, and he might even get a big boost in the polls.
It's double or quits.
The FT, that hasn't supported the tories since 1992?
The one where the editor, a old boy of Dulwich College, has a personal dislike for the Tories and all that they stand for?
The FT, that hasnt supported the Tories since 2010 (and almost certainly will again next year).
This has to be the most exciting period in British politics/politicalbetting history since the election that never was.
Even more than the election that was?
And we haven't even got to the sovereign debt crisis that will begin in earnest from October 2015. It's exciting enough now for sure, but it'll be politics on steroids then compared to now when that hits.
'The PM of the UK who presided over the end of the UK. If that's not something he should resign for I don't know what is. He has been unbelievably useless throughout the campaign.'
Do you think the average rUK voter gives a toss whether Scotland stays or goes?
FFSSSSSS
They will give a toss when they see the £ tanking, the stock market in chaos, investors fleeing, the property market roiled. Etc.
You do get a bit over excited, and exaggerate sometimes.
The one thing stopping this obvious Coalition is the metrosexual, Old Etonian tendency in the Tory party, epitomised by Cameron, who worry more about polite opinion in Primrose Hill and Ladbroke Grove. He and they will be swept away after a YES.
Hah!
If the Liberal Unionists could survive Irish independence, civil war and partition, then they can survive a UKIP-Tory coalition.
I find it very hard to believe that Cameron will resign after a yes vote. It just makes no political sense. The only people who will call for his resignation are the people who are currently wanting him out. And who is going to replace him?
Having said all that, there will be a lot of pressure if it's a Scottish yes, followed by a UKIP victory in Clacton - then the media and tory backbenches really will be baying for blood.
Perhaps Hammond next tory leader @ 16/1 (lads) would be the best bet to cover such a scenario? - That bet would also keep alive into a post 2015 conservative defeat leadership election scenario.
Can anyone else see any value bets if Cameron is forced out?
The best bet if you think that's gonna happen is the 16/1 Cameron goes in 2014
Why bother trying to predict who the replacement will be? If you back a 50/1 shot and a 25/1 shot that's worse than 16/1 combined
I remember reading Atherton's book during a hiatus in India. I spent a weekend alone in Ooty, engrossed in that book - Ray's story really stuck in my mind. I couldn't help but feel rather sad for him at the time. Maybe it was the way the book was written, with Atherton projecting his pity onto Ray, or perhaps it was the reflection on myself and the times I've slipped into isolation, but his story very much stuck in my mind. In a weird way, it helped me reassess my own priorities as a young 20-something. Sure, I can profit from punting, but isn't there more to life than chasing the next win and F5'ing an internet forum?
I've got more to thank him for than I realised.
All things in moderation, eh?!
RIP Ray.
I got to know him a bit at the end of his life, though mostly on-line - he was razor-sharp right to the end. A true eccentric, certainly, but he enjoyed some of the finer things in life (other than gambling!) as well.
If Dave goes and the Tories want to show the country they aren't a bunch of posh Buller boys, what better than electing the Northern working class Muslim son of an immigrant
Hence why Sajid is a good bet
Hmm. I'd like to think you were right, but I very much doubt he'd get the grass roots support.
He would.
Remember our discussion on the booing of Moeen Ali?
'Munir Ali, Moeen’s father, told ESPNcricinfo. “We are very disappointed with what happened. It should have been a special day: Moeen was playing for his country in the city of his birth. It is the city I was born in and the city my mother was born in. The whole family was looking forward to it and we thought he would receive a warm welcome.
“Instead he was abused from the start. He was abused because he is a Muslim and because of his Pakistan heritage. That is disgraceful." '
They should stop focussing on the negatives, no England fan gives a rats arse that he is a Muslim or of Pakistani Heritage.
That should be a sign of great pride for him and the country.
I couldn't care less about his heritage and certainly wouldn't boo him, but British Indians supporting India don't seem to think like that, and it was they who booed him
Some 30 per cent now believe Mr Cameron should quit ... Meanwhile 31 per cent believe Ed Miliband should resign as Labour leader ....
I fail to see why either should resign. Scotland seems to have been edging closer and closer to an independence vote for as long as I can remember. It is just that up to this point no one was prepared to believe that a post indy Scotland was viable.
Didn't Dave say he would quit if he lost the Union?
Mind you he also promised no Top Down NHS reorganisation
Not like you to make something up so you can criticize.
By the way did you ever provide an answer to which party pioneered the bedroom tax and NHS privatization?
I'll be back in the morning to check no rush for the answer, any time tonight will do.
Not sure what you mean.
Thought Tories were proud of Privatization. Definitely responsible for NHS private sector involvemant
Think Tories introduced the bedroom tax even though they called it spare room subsidy
Perhaps your amazing revelations that this is not the case could save the Union am sure the Scots are open to be persuaded
I left the Labour party for two reasons: the warmongering over Iraq, and the creaming off of profitable elective work to private healthcare companies following Milburns health "reforms".
It is noteworthy that all 3 major parties in 2010 featured private companies in their plans for the NHS.
Though I think that Ed Miliband is planning to roll back that privatisation...
@cathynewman: Enjoyed interviewing Gordon Brown tonight, though he walked off with our mic. We managed to catch him before he called me a bigoted woman...
I think that joke is well past its sell by date. FWIW the woman he called a bigot was a bigot.
That he afterwards said she wasn't, that he had mistaken her comments, somewhat undermines the ability to make that argument even if it is true, and means the joke's legs continue on.
Then he was wrong to revise his view. She was a bigot.
On what basis do you form that opinion? Do you know her personally? She was worried about Eastern Europeans "flocking here", and she has a right to be concerned, given that northern England, in particular, has recently experienced some of the highest and most dramatic levels of immigration in British history.
Some 30 per cent now believe Mr Cameron should quit as Prime Minister in the case of a Yes vote - up from 22 per cent on Friday, the YouGov poll for The Sun found.
Half (50 per cent) think he should remain as PM while the rest (21 per cent) don’t know.
Meanwhile 31 per cent believe Ed Miliband should resign as Labour leader if Scotland quits the UK, with 47 per cent say he should stay.
"It is difficult to overstate how weak Mr Cameron’s leadership and strategy have been throughout [the indyref campaign]. He has never made a sustained argument for the continuation of the United Kingdom. What is now clear is that his decision in 2012 to veto a second question on the ballot paper asking Scots if they would accept further devolution was a strategic blunder."
He's toast, after a YES. He might just try and cling on but the tide will utterly overwhelm him.
We should, however, consider the alternative. Such is the bile being spat at Cameron and Osborne, if he now gets a NO, his position will be enhanced, and he might even get a big boost in the polls.
It's double or quits.
And also don't forget that the vast majority of people in SLAB in 1997 thought that devolution would kill any independence movement stone dead - how outdated does that look now?!! Yet another area where Salmond and the SNP were light years ahead of their political opposition.
The Scottish people wanted devolution. The UK gave the party offering it a landslide majority. Devolution was neither a mistake by Labour nor an ingenious trick by the SNP.
There was a significant strand of opinion in the SNP that wanted independence straight without devolution in times gone by though. Salmond and co had to win a battle of the gradualists against the fundamentalists over devolution.
Has history really taught us that little? Denying devolution doesnt have a good track record of keeping reluctant parts of the Union in the tent.
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Kent and Buckinghamshire do. Why discriminate against Essex?
It upsets me deeply but frankly, yes deserves to win. The arrogance of LibLabCon has been nothing less than epochal. A campaign of scare stories when the issue at hand is essentially romance. Who ever listened to Mum and Dad when romance was in the air. The no campaign has been a slow motion car crash from day one.
Cameron must resign if there is a yes. He has abrogated his responsibility to the Union. No more than a vapid PR suit. To be honest I wouldn't be sorry if Clegg and Miliband followed him out the door too; Westminster needs to take a long hard look at the way politics has gone in the last 20 years, as they are losing the people.
Some 30 per cent now believe Mr Cameron should quit as Prime Minister in the case of a Yes vote - up from 22 per cent on Friday, the YouGov poll for The Sun found.
Half (50 per cent) think he should remain as PM while the rest (21 per cent) don’t know.
Meanwhile 31 per cent believe Ed Miliband should resign as Labour leader if Scotland quits the UK, with 47 per cent say he should stay.
"It is difficult to overstate how weak Mr Cameron’s leadership and strategy have been throughout [the indyref campaign]. He has never made a sustained argument for the continuation of the United Kingdom. What is now clear is that his decision in 2012 to veto a second question on the ballot paper asking Scots if they would accept further devolution was a strategic blunder."
He's toast, after a YES. He might just try and cling on but the tide will utterly overwhelm him.
We should, however, consider the alternative. Such is the bile being spat at Cameron and Osborne, if he now gets a NO, his position will be enhanced, and he might even get a big boost in the polls.
It's double or quits.
The FT, that hasn't supported the tories since 1992?
The one where the editor, a old boy of Dulwich College, has a personal dislike for the Tories and all that they stand for?
Speaking as a journalist, I can assure you that, should Cameron lose the Union, every single newspaper will be demanding his resignation, from the Sun (Murdoch) to the Mail (never liked him) to the Telegraph (do the honourable thing), my guess is that even the Times will sighingly make a solemn call for him to go.
Of course all the Lib Dem and left wing papers will demand he walk the plank.
He will have zero media support, plus the Queen deliberately making him sit on whoopee cushions at Buck House.
He's over, if it is YES. He knows this. Indeed he admitted this, at first, before he realised that saying this gave Scots another reason to vote YES.
Put your money where your gob is, matey. Shall we say £200 evens that he stays?
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Kent and Buckinghamshire do. Why discriminate against Essex?
Some 30 per cent now believe Mr Cameron should quit ... Meanwhile 31 per cent believe Ed Miliband should resign as Labour leader ....
I fail to see why either should resign. Scotland seems to have been edging closer and closer to an independence vote for as long as I can remember. It is just that up to this point no one was prepared to believe that a post indy Scotland was viable.
Didn't Dave say he would quit if he lost the Union?
Mind you he also promised no Top Down NHS reorganisation
Not like you to make something up so you can criticize.
By the way did you ever provide an answer to which party pioneered the bedroom tax and NHS privatization?
I'll be back in the morning to check no rush for the answer, any time tonight will do.
Not sure what you mean.
Thought Tories were proud of Privatization. Definitely responsible for NHS private sector involvemant
Think Tories introduced the bedroom tax even though they called it spare room subsidy
Perhaps your amazing revelations that this is not the case could save the Union am sure the Scots are open to be persuaded
You post on (and presumably read) a blog for political nerds. How can you be so ill informed about politics?
Some 30 per cent now believe Mr Cameron should quit as Prime Minister in the case of a Yes vote - up from 22 per cent on Friday, the YouGov poll for The Sun found.
Half (50 per cent) think he should remain as PM while the rest (21 per cent) don’t know.
Meanwhile 31 per cent believe Ed Miliband should resign as Labour leader if Scotland quits the UK, with 47 per cent say he should stay.
"It is difficult to overstate how weak Mr Cameron’s leadership and strategy have been throughout [the indyref campaign]. He has never made a sustained argument for the continuation of the United Kingdom. What is now clear is that his decision in 2012 to veto a second question on the ballot paper asking Scots if they would accept further devolution was a strategic blunder."
He's toast, after a YES. He might just try and cling on but the tide will utterly overwhelm him.
We should, however, consider the alternative. Such is the bile being spat at Cameron and Osborne, if he now gets a NO, his position will be enhanced, and he might even get a big boost in the polls.
It's double or quits.
The FT, that hasn't supported the tories since 1992?
The one where the editor, a old boy of Dulwich College, has a personal dislike for the Tories and all that they stand for?
Speaking as a journalist, I can assure you that, should Cameron lose the Union, every single ne
He's over, if it is YES. He knows this. Indeed he admitted this, at first, before he realised that saying this gave Scots another reason to vote YES.
Put your money where your gob is, matey. Shall we say £200 evens that he stays?
NO. I make a profit if either side wins, and I am assured champagne and dinner if YES wins.
It is unseemly for me to benefit further from the destruction of the country.
Thought so. On this one you are a total tosser. Sorry. But there it is.
If Dave goes and the Tories want to show the country they aren't a bunch of posh Buller boys, what better than electing the Northern working class Muslim son of an immigrant
Hence why Sajid is a good bet
Hmm. I'd like to think you were right, but I very much doubt he'd get the grass roots support.
He would.
Remember our discussion on the booing of Moeen Ali?
'Munir Ali, Moeen’s father, told ESPNcricinfo. “We are very disappointed with what happened. It should have been a special day: Moeen was playing for his country in the city of his birth. It is the city I was born in and the city my mother was born in. The whole family was looking forward to it and we thought he would receive a warm welcome.
“Instead he was abused from the start. He was abused because he is a Muslim and because of his Pakistan heritage. That is disgraceful." '
They should stop focussing on the negatives, no England fan gives a rats arse that he is a Muslim or of Pakistani Heritage.
That should be a sign of great pride for him and the country.
I agree completely - but when it comes to a scenario where conservative party members are sitting at home pondering their postal ballot, I'm just not sure Javid can really win.
I would also like to propose new rules of political campaigns. Forget banning campaign donations from shadowy figures and union barons, celebs should be banned from acting as spokespeople.
I caught US citizen Alan Cumming on CH4 news this evning, lecturing me in an extremely painful way on why Scotland should be independent and how horrible the NO campaign, in particular the Tories are.
I don't want the likes of him, Gary Barlow or Eddie Izzard telling me which way to vote.
If Dave goes and the Tories want to show the country they aren't a bunch of posh Buller boys, what better than electing the Northern working class Muslim son of an immigrant
Hence why Sajid is a good bet
Hmm. I'd like to think you were right, but I very much doubt he'd get the grass roots support.
He would.
He's one of the more sensible Cabinet Ministers around - spoke very well at a function I hosted back end of last year.
If Dave goes and the Tories want to show the country they aren't a bunch of posh Buller boys, what better than electing the Northern working class Muslim son of an immigrant
Hence why Sajid is a good bet
Hmm. I'd like to think you were right, but I very much doubt he'd get the grass roots support.
He would.
Remember our discussion on the booing of Moeen Ali?
'Munir Ali, Moeen’s father, told ESPNcricinfo. “We are very disappointed with what happened. It should have been a special day: Moeen was playing for his country in the city of his birth. It is the city I was born in and the city my mother was born in. The whole family was looking forward to it and we thought he would receive a warm welcome.
“Instead he was abused from the start. He was abused because he is a Muslim and because of his Pakistan heritage. That is disgraceful." '
They should stop focussing on the negatives, no England fan gives a rats arse that he is a Muslim or of Pakistani Heritage.
That should be a sign of great pride for him and the country.
I agree completely - but when it comes to a scenario where conservative party members are sitting at home pondering their postal ballot, I'm just not sure Javid can really win.
Sorry to say it!
It depends on who he is up against.
If he's up against Theresa May, he'll walk it, party members will always hold the nasty party speech against her.
If Dave goes and the Tories want to show the country they aren't a bunch of posh Buller boys, what better than electing the Northern working class Muslim son of an immigrant
Hence why Sajid is a good bet
Hmm. I'd like to think you were right, but I very much doubt he'd get the grass roots support.
He would.
Remember our discussion on the booing of Moeen Ali?
'Munir Ali, Moeen’s father, told ESPNcricinfo. “We are very disappointed with what happened. It should have been a special day: Moeen was playing for his country in the city of his birth. It is the city I was born in and the city my mother was born in. The whole family was looking forward to it and we thought he would receive a warm welcome.
“Instead he was abused from the start. He was abused because he is a Muslim and because of his Pakistan heritage. That is disgraceful." '
They should stop focussing on the negatives, no England fan gives a rats arse that he is a Muslim or of Pakistani Heritage.
That should be a sign of great pride for him and the country.
I agree completely - but when it comes to a scenario where conservative party members are sitting at home pondering their postal ballot, I'm just not sure Javid can really win.
Sorry to say it!
It depends on who he is up against.
If he's up against Theresa May, he'll walk it, party members will always hold the nasty party speech against her.
Doesnt she quite well in ConHome polls? (I know they are not limited to party members but still.)
Speaking as a journalist, I can assure you that, should Cameron lose the Union, every single newspaper will be demanding his resignation, from the Sun (Murdoch) to the Mail (never liked him) to the Telegraph (do the honourable thing), my guess is that even the Times will sighingly make a solemn call for him to go.
Of course all the Lib Dem and left wing papers will demand he walk the plank.
He will have zero media support, plus the Queen deliberately making him sit on whoopee cushions at Buck House.
He's over, if it is YES. He knows this. Indeed he admitted this, at first, before he realised that saying this gave Scots another reason to vote YES.
If there really is the chaos you predict after a YES, then why would Cameron resign? After all, it would be no time for a novice.
However, if Cameron does resign then the new leader's honeymoon period coupled with the loss of Scottish seats will be probably secure a good victory for the Tories in 2015.
Ironically it falls to Labour who must work hard in the next week or so on Project Save Cameron.
If Dave goes and the Tories want to show the country they aren't a bunch of posh Buller boys, what better than electing the Northern working class Muslim son of an immigrant
Hence why Sajid is a good bet
Hmm. I'd like to think you were right, but I very much doubt he'd get the grass roots support.
He would.
He's one of the more sensible Cabinet Ministers around - spoke very well at a function I hosted back end of last year.
I might even rejoin the party to vote for him ;-)
My Mum would join the Tories if he became leader and she hates the Tories.
Some 30 per cent now believe Mr Cameron should quit as Prime Minister in the case of a Yes vote - up from 22 per cent on Friday, the YouGov poll for The Sun found.
Half (50 per cent) think he should remain as PM while the rest (21 per cent) don’t know.
Meanwhile 31 per cent believe Ed Miliband should resign as Labour leader if Scotland quits the UK, with 47 per cent say he should stay.
"It is difficult to overstate how weak Mr Cameron’s leadership and strategy have been throughout [the indyref campaign]. He has never made a sustained argument for the continuation of the United Kingdom. What is now clear is that his decision in 2012 to veto a second question on the ballot paper asking Scots if they would accept further devolution was a strategic blunder."
He's toast, after a YES. He might just try and cling on but the tide will utterly overwhelm him.
We should, however, consider the alternative. Such is the bile being spat at Cameron and Osborne, if he now gets a NO, his position will be enhanced, and he might even get a big boost in the polls.
It's double or quits.
The FT, that hasn't supported the tories since 1992?
The one where the editor, a old boy of Dulwich College, has a personal dislike for the Tories and all that they stand for?
Speaking as a journalist, I can assure you that, should Cameron lose the Union, every single ne
He's over, if it is YES. He knows this. Indeed he admitted this, at first, before he realised that saying this gave Scots another reason to vote YES.
Put your money where your gob is, matey. Shall we say £200 evens that he stays?
NO. I make a profit if either side wins, and I am assured champagne and dinner if YES wins.
It is unseemly for me to benefit further from the destruction of the country.
Thought so. On this one you are a total tosser. Sorry. But there it is.
You seem a little rattled, old boy. Get out the BIG tube of Anusol.
If Dave goes and the Tories want to show the country they aren't a bunch of posh Buller boys, what better than electing the Northern working class Muslim son of an immigrant
Hence why Sajid is a good bet
Hmm. I'd like to think you were right, but I very much doubt he'd get the grass roots support.
He would.
Remember our discussion on the booing of Moeen Ali?
'Munir Ali, Moeen’s father, told ESPNcricinfo. “We are very disappointed with what happened. It should have been a special day: Moeen was playing for his country in the city of his birth. It is the city I was born in and the city my mother was born in. The whole family was looking forward to it and we thought he would receive a warm welcome.
“Instead he was abused from the start. He was abused because he is a Muslim and because of his Pakistan heritage. That is disgraceful." '
They should stop focussing on the negatives, no England fan gives a rats arse that he is a Muslim or of Pakistani Heritage.
That should be a sign of great pride for him and the country.
I agree completely - but when it comes to a scenario where conservative party members are sitting at home pondering their postal ballot, I'm just not sure Javid can really win.
Sorry to say it!
It depends on who he is up against.
If he's up against Theresa May, he'll walk it, party members will always hold the nasty party speech against her.
Doesnt she quite well in ConHome polls? (I know they are not limited to party members but still.)
She has in recent months.
The other reasons Tories will pick Sajid is to see the meltdown on the left.
The Tory party elects an ethnic as leader, before Labour, the party of Phil Woolas.
@cathynewman: Enjoyed interviewing Gordon Brown tonight, though he walked off with our mic. We managed to catch him before he called me a bigoted woman...
I think that joke is well past its sell by date. FWIW the woman he called a bigot was a bigot.
That he afterwards said she wasn't, that he had mistaken her comments, somewhat undermines the ability to make that argument even if it is true, and means the joke's legs continue on.
Then he was wrong to revise his view. She was a bigot.
On what basis do you form that opinion? Do you know her personally? She was worried about Eastern Europeans "flocking here", and she has a right to be concerned, given that northern England, in particular, has recently experienced some of the highest and most dramatic levels of immigration in British history.
You are a repulsive cretin.
Er thanks!
Still waiting to hear how you "know" this woman is a "bigot".
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Kent and Buckinghamshire do. Why discriminate against Essex?
Can I post a load of Essex Girls jokes?
That will explain why
What do you call an Essex Girl with two brain cells?
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Kent and Buckinghamshire do. Why discriminate against Essex?
Can I post a load of Essex Girls jokes?
That will explain why
What do you call an Essex Girl with two brain cells?
I would also like to propose new rules of political campaigns. Forget banning campaign donations from shadowy figures and union barons, celebs should be banned from acting as spokespeople.
I caught US citizen Alan Cumming on CH4 news this evning, lecturing me in an extremely painful way on why Scotland should be independent and how horrible the NO campaign, in particular the Tories are.
I don't want the likes of him, Gary Barlow or Eddie Izzard telling me which way to vote.
They still have the right to have views and express them, it's just a shame that celebrities will by their nature get more press even if they are idiots not officially speaking for a campaign. We just have to hope that the other sides' celebrities are fools, and it probably evens itself out over time.
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Kent and Buckinghamshire do. Why discriminate against Essex?
Can I post a load of Essex Girls jokes?
That will explain why
What do you call an Essex Girl with two brain cells?
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Kent and Buckinghamshire do. Why discriminate against Essex?
Can I post a load of Essex Girls jokes?
That will explain why
What do you call an Essex Girl with two brain cells?
Go on.
Pregnant
Filth
All stereotype jokes fair game on here?
Obviously all female members of my family are the target of that joke, I don't actually care and don't take offence but its just the same as jokes about any other stereotype and people get very precious when they are even hinted at
"I think it will lead eventually to a more "federalized" country (old counties perhaps?), and the political shift will be far more complex"
Depending on what you'd devolve, it doesn't make much sense to federalize down to that level. Should Essex really have it's own education system, for example?
Kent and Buckinghamshire do. Why discriminate against Essex?
Can I post a load of Essex Girls jokes?
That will explain why
What do you call an Essex Girl with two brain cells?
Go on.
Pregnant
I've realised all my Essex girls jokes are more x-rated than my Jam joke, and I'm barred from posting that on PB.
Speaking as a journalist, I can assure you that, should Cameron lose the Union, every single newspaper will be demanding his resignation, from the Sun (Murdoch) to the Mail (never liked him) to the Telegraph (do the honourable thing), my guess is that even the Times will sighingly make a solemn call for him to go.
Of course all the Lib Dem and left wing papers will demand he walk the plank.
He will have zero media support, plus the Queen deliberately making him sit on whoopee cushions at Buck House.
He's over, if it is YES. He knows this. Indeed he admitted this, at first, before he realised that saying this gave Scots another reason to vote YES.
If there really is the chaos you predict after a YES, then why would Cameron resign? After all, it would be no time for a novice.
I transferred all of my Sterling savings into Dollars a few weeks ago. Granted it was only £1k, but I've literally made pennies of unrealised gains, pennies I tell ya!
Comments
'The PM of the UK who presided over the end of the UK. If that's not something he should resign for I don't know what is. He has been unbelievably useless throughout the campaign.'
Do you think the average rUK voter gives a toss whether Scotland stays or goes?
I think, sadly, that I agree with you. Scotland would be better to go now.
Whenever Mike goes on holiday chaos stalks the political landscape.
I think like a Scot
Not ust when it comes to buying a round!!
If nothing else, this has highlighted just how much huge numbers of people are not happy with the status quo of being in an overly centralised state.
The "bedroom tax" is a UK decision, Scotland has to fund any reduction in it's effects from the Scottish budget.
'Munir Ali, Moeen’s father, told ESPNcricinfo. “We are very disappointed with what happened. It should have been a special day: Moeen was playing for his country in the city of his birth. It is the city I was born in and the city my mother was born in. The whole family was looking forward to it and we thought he would receive a warm welcome.
“Instead he was abused from the start. He was abused because he is a Muslim and because of his Pakistan heritage. That is disgraceful." '
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/sep/08/moen-ali-family-booing-england-india-edgbaston-police?CMP=twt_gu
This has to be the most exciting period in British politics/politicalbetting history since the election that never was.
Just out of interest if it is Yes by 3 or less, are there any odds on a ratification referendum after some negotiations?
Quite clearly possible to have devolution to regions of about 2-3m people.
You could easily have:
Scottish parliament on equal footing with an English one and a Welsh one, that determine law and overall budgets
Then within England devolve some powers and budgets to regions/counties
That should be a sign of great pride for him and the country.
The one where the editor, a old boy of Dulwich College, has a personal dislike for the Tories and all that they stand for?
'They will give a toss when they see the £ tanking, the stock market in chaos, investors fleeing, the property market roiled. Etc'
FFSSS your getting over excited,you really believe Scotland leaving the union will have a greater impact on the economy than the banking collapse in 2008!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxCro4mCIAA43Gk.jpg
You do get a bit over excited, and exaggerate sometimes. 3% of the population might be leaving us for pastures new. Good luck to them.
Thought Tories were proud of Privatization. Definitely responsible for NHS private sector involvemant
Think Tories introduced the bedroom tax even though they called it spare room subsidy
Perhaps your amazing revelations that this is not the case could save the Union am sure the Scots are open to be persuaded
From Hestiltine, Adonis, Jim O'Neill or whoever, there will certainly be significant devolution of powers to regions like Greater Manchester sooner rather than later.
For those in power. "devolve" is a filthy word that makes their skin crawl.
All that climbing the greasy pole to achieve power, then you give it away?
You might as well ask the rich to pay taxes.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gordon-browns-bigot-remark-was-wrong-says-ed-miliband-7961559.html
?
Do you want to re-evaluate your remarks?
Brown is the agreed mouthpiece for the two (well three) main parties who will have to agree some sort of unity to the principle.
I seem to remember Cameron pretty much saying what Brown has just said when the referendum was announced.
Question is, do people want to see Labour in charge of sticking us closer to the EU at the same time as giving bits of our soverignty to Scotland? Do we really think the WLQ will be properly answered by Labour?
What the usual hysteria on Webpages like here indicates is the happiness of the right to commit hara-kari
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3741700/
If the Liberal Unionists could survive Irish independence, civil war and partition, then they can survive a UKIP-Tory coalition.
We'll just go underground for a decade or so...
;-)
Why bother trying to predict who the replacement will be? If you back a 50/1 shot and a 25/1 shot that's worse than 16/1 combined
I left the Labour party for two reasons: the warmongering over Iraq, and the creaming off of profitable elective work to private healthcare companies following Milburns health "reforms".
It is noteworthy that all 3 major parties in 2010 featured private companies in their plans for the NHS.
Though I think that Ed Miliband is planning to roll back that privatisation...
http://orderorder.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/gordon-brown.jpg?w=480&h=354
Or will it be one of those football manager things...team wins players were awesome, team loses manager gets the sack.
Cameron must resign if there is a yes. He has abrogated his responsibility to the Union. No more than a vapid PR suit. To be honest I wouldn't be sorry if Clegg and Miliband followed him out the door too; Westminster needs to take a long hard look at the way politics has gone in the last 20 years, as they are losing the people.
That will explain why
Sorry to say it!
I caught US citizen Alan Cumming on CH4 news this evning, lecturing me in an extremely painful way on why Scotland should be independent and how horrible the NO campaign, in particular the Tories are.
I don't want the likes of him, Gary Barlow or Eddie Izzard telling me which way to vote.
I might even rejoin the party to vote for him ;-)
If he's up against Theresa May, he'll walk it, party members will always hold the nasty party speech against her.
If there really is the chaos you predict after a YES, then why would Cameron resign? After all, it would be no time for a novice.
However, if Cameron does resign then the new leader's honeymoon period coupled with the loss of Scottish seats will be probably secure a good victory for the Tories in 2015.
Ironically it falls to Labour who must work hard in the next week or so on Project Save Cameron.
The other reasons Tories will pick Sajid is to see the meltdown on the left.
The Tory party elects an ethnic as leader, before Labour, the party of Phil Woolas.
All stereotype jokes fair game on here?
Obviously all female members of my family are the target of that joke, I don't actually care and don't take offence but its just the same as jokes about any other stereotype and people get very precious when they are even hinted at