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  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Tom Pride (@ThomasPride)
    03/09/2014 06:54
    Proof Cameron is running scared of UKIP – in his own words:
    tompride.wordpress.com/2014/09/03/pro… pic.twitter.com/c8MlOCn7VV
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    RodCrosby said:

    malcolmg said:



    THE outcome of next year's independence referendum will be announced if one side has an unassailable lead even if all the counts have yet to be declared, according to a report.

    Chief Counting Officer Designate, Mary Pitcaithly, said yesterday there would only be official declaration once all 32 local counts had been fully verified.

    Ms Pitcaithly, convener of the Electoral Management Board for Scotland and chief executive of Falkirk Council, said it did not necessarily mean the result would be announced overnight after the polling day on September 18.

    She said: "Getting the result right is more important than getting it quickly."

    She added that estimates of when the result would be given following an overnight count after polling day on September 18 "cannot be given with any confidence".

    Ms Pitcaithly examined the issues which could affect the timing of counts across Scotland in a paper.

    It said: "There is theatre in any electoral event and the Scottish independence referendum will be a major event at a national and international level. While recognising the drama, democracy is best served by accurate, careful processes, not necessarily fast ones."

    Ms Pitcaithly, concluded: "With the current processes and volumes of ballots, particularly postal votes, it is unlikely to be in the early hours as might have been the experience in previous elections. Turnout, volumes of postal votes and logistical factors dependent on the geography and climate must all come into the consideration."

    Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced.

    A final declaration of the overall result will only be made after all 32 local results have been checked in this way.

    The paper says factors such as bad weather or a high turnout could cause extended counts and a later declaration. But it makes clear: "As counts are completed in each of the 32 areas and totals announced, there may be a point, when the remaining certified totals yet to be received from Counting Officers could not change the overall outcome, when the outcome will be known before the national declaration."

    It stresses: "While there is a great desire to know the result, the voter needs to be assured the result that is declared is correct.

    "The result needs to be accurate and based on secure and transparent processes. A result delivered quickly but about which there are questions of accuracy or integrity would undermine the entire referendum process."

    Thanks. Sounds like a dog's breakfast. I wonder if there are any contingencies in place to deal with civil unrest...
    Rod, people will be too happy after a YES vote to have trouble, may be a bit too much champagne drunk mind you
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701
    taffys said:

    ''Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.''

    Complete misrepresentation of UKIP position by desperate tory. UKIP favours a points system, which will allow Doctors and Engineers from the Asian sub continent to come here, but will bar white criminals from Germany or Poland.

    Not long ago there was a German doctor carrying out what was generally considered to be a criminal act in Britain.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    sarissa said:

    Given the level of abuse and intimidation that seems to be directed towards anyone who says they will vote NO in Scotland, I can understand why there aren't many NO posters up in people's houses. If I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't want a brick through my window.. Or worse. You'd have to be very brave. This is why we have a secret ballot, thank goodness.

    Who/Where etc?
    There was that instance of a shop displaying posters that had a large bin set alight outside in an apparent arson attack. Oh wait, that was a Yes posters...
    The idiots that chucked eggs at Murphy - were they 'No'ers?
    Ha!
    HaHaHaHaHa!

    Guffaw
    and indeed Chortle.

    Seriously? Politician gets egged! wow, these Yessers must be real cnuts!

    The only >real< acts of violence that i've heard about have been perpetrated by loony right wingers in the No camp. (kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach, lobbing a chair from a balcony, hitting a kid with a broken bottle etc) not that you see any of that in the press/bbc. But an MP GET EGGED!

    Wow, just wow...
    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/yes-campaigners-attacked-by-mob-outside-tynecastle-1-3527125

    suspicion is that they might have been remnants from the Orange Order parade in the vicinity earlier in the day
    wearing suits and carrying rolled up sashes would tend to support that theory going by the videos.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030

    Seems a bit weird that it's not clear whether the results will come out one area at a time or all at once (officially, I'm sure there'll be many a rumour).

    Given that it is a straight two-way fight, I am sure the size of the ballot stacks will be used as a reliable indicator.
  • rcs1000 said:

    I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will)


    The big difference is that there was more emigration from the UK than immigration. Emigration can be a problem for a country that is struggling, but for a successful country it acts as a benefit.

    If the UK regained its emigrating spirit, net migration would come down to zero, and the country would rediscover its historical love of open borders.
    I doubt it. If a million Asians come in and half a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about net immigration of a half a million, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.

    If a million Asians come in and a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about ethnic cleansing and population replacement of the white English, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.

    Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.

    The ones who spout this stuff online may or may not be typical of UKIP generally, but they're certainly noisy and pretty typical of the online UKIPper. Civilised UKIPpers like iSam are far less in evidence.

    So when all we have by way of counterpoint to this stuff is Farage, Godfrey Bloom, Neil Hamilton, and that gay floods UKIP guy, well, what is one to think?
    I really don't understand why you keep posting this stuff, James. It is making you look ludicrous.
    Read the comments and weep:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100284881/as-the-right-commits-suicide-the-future-may-belong-to-the-left-after-all/#disqus_thread

    Until UKIP effectively distances itself from this, it will remain a loony fringe. The trouble is, if the leadership distances itself it's going to enrage rather a lot of the members.
    I've seen them. Many times before. I take them about as seriously as the comments on YouTube.

    You're trying to make a link between UKIP and support for liquidating/killing Asians. It's doing your credibility on this forum no good whatsoever.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''The cuts are not just for christmas though - we will need a decade of restraint - indeed the Brown years show we need perpetual restraint. We certainly will not get that from Labour.''

    People are fed up with this Cameroonian cr8p. If the government wanted to cut the deficit, it would. The fact is Cameron and Osborne are far too enamoured of state spending to do anything. That is why we get preachy sermons about decades of restraint, whilst a supposedly conservative government works out as many ways as it can to scr*w money off ordinary people and the deficit just gets bigger.

    P8ss off to labour.
  • On topic, there's a grand conspiracy between the media (who want a nail-biter), the yes campaign (who don't want to be written off) and the no campaign (who want to be sure their side turns out) to pretend this is a tight race. It's not in anyone's interests to pay for polling, because it would probably show the opposite.
  • Re the Kings, the BBC is reporting that the Prague Proton Therapy Centre has said Ashya is first required to undergo two cycles of chemotherapy.

    That is expected to take several weeks but afterwards he would be able to travel to Prague for proton therapy.

    This is, apparently, according to Dr Gary Nicolin, consultant paediatric oncologist at Southampton Hospital.

    Do I detect a momumental FU and total failure of communication?

    Or desperate parents doing diagnosis by the Internet, which is apparently becoming a bigger problem for the NHS. Chemo isn't very nice or pleasant by any account, and I can understand why anybody would want to avoid it, if possible, and especially for a child.
  • Mr. D, a fair comment. Assuming no shenanigans occur. As mentioned below, let's hope the electoral registers don't go walkies.

    Still staggers me nothing happened about Glenrothes' going missing.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Seems a bit weird that it's not clear whether the results will come out one area at a time or all at once (officially, I'm sure there'll be many a rumour).

    What's unclear?

    "Polling for the Scottish Independence Referendum will be held on 18 September
    2014. It is the Chief Counting Officer Designate’s intention that following the close
    of polls at 10pm Counting Officers (COs) will begin counting the votes. Separate
    counts will be held in each local authority area. COs will report local totals to the
    Chief Counting Officer Designate (CCO), who will verify them and authorise local
    announcements. Local totals will also be announced by the CCO in Edinburgh. A
    final declaration of the national result will be made by the CCO following receipt and
    verification of all 32 local totals."

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I read that Cam and Milli were actually quite pally today, and I guess its not surprising.

    My enemy's enemy is, after all, my friend.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Isabel Hardman (@IsabelHardman)
    03/09/2014 15:48
    At last night's meeting of the Tory party, Cameron openly mocked Bercow to MPs specc.ie/1rMAmzn
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    Still staggers me nothing happened about Glenrothes' going missing.

    There was an inquiry by the Scottish Courts Service.
  • taffys said:

    ''Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.''

    Complete misrepresentation of UKIP position by desperate tory. UKIP favours a points system, which will allow Doctors and Engineers from the Asian sub continent to come here, but will bar white criminals from Germany or Poland.

    I didn't say it was the UKIP position. I said it was the position of "rather a lot of UKIPpers". Do you agree that the DT comments I reposted from below are abhorrent? These are people who profess to be UKIP supporters. They get hundreds of recommends. 500 loonies recommending nonsense like that would be a very significant slice of UKIP's claimed membership. You do not get lunacy like that from anyone else, not even Nats. Nobody.

    They're very typical of the online UKIPper. Unless you think someone at CCO has 500 sockpuppet accounts all recommending this stuff to discredit UKIP.

    What this says to me is that Cameron has wholly successfully removed these people from his party, and they've very angry. It reflects very badly on Farage's judgement that he associates with and cannot control such people.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    You do not get lunacy like that from anyone else, not even Nats. Nobody.

    Oh, I dunno, you're pretty insane.
  • Mr. Neil, fair enough, cheers for posting that.

    And what did the inquiry find or do?

    Mr. Isam, good to hear. Bercow's an arrogant arse who wants to play at empire-building instead of doing his bloody job. I hope whoever his successor is actually dresses the part (as well as acting it, of course).
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    And what did the inquiry find or do?

    Why dont you look it up rather than make false assertions about nothing having happened in relation to the failings in the handling of the register?









  • I doubt it. If a million Asians come in and half a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about net immigration of a half a million, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.

    If a million Asians come in and a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about ethnic cleansing and population replacement of the white English, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.

    Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.

    The ones who spout this stuff online may or may not be typical of UKIP generally, but they're certainly noisy and pretty typical of the online UKIPper. Civilised UKIPpers like iSam are far less in evidence.

    So when all we have by way of counterpoint to this stuff is Farage, Godfrey Bloom, Neil Hamilton, and that gay floods UKIP guy, well, what is one to think?

    I really don't understand why you keep posting this stuff, James. It is making you look ludicrous.

    Read the comments and weep:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100284881/as-the-right-commits-suicide-the-future-may-belong-to-the-left-after-all/#disqus_thread

    Until UKIP effectively distances itself from this, it will remain a loony fringe. The trouble is, if the leadership distances itself it's going to enrage rather a lot of the members.

    For example:

    "One thing is enough and will deal with the lot. Repatriation." - that got 77 recommends

    "As somebody who's hard right, I'd say plane, boat, train or chimney."

    "we've worked out what they mean by 'Modern Britain', it's a place with no place for the British..."

    "Round them up and ship them out....."

    "Expel them to islamic countries - the demos clearly doesn't want them here"

    "64% of Bradford's Pakistani mothers are biologically related to the father of their child" (142 recommends)

    "A LibLabCON government is a treasonous government as we have seen over the past 40 years."

    I'm sorry but they really are uniquely vicious loonies - much, much worse than what you read at the Gruaniad.





    I think we have a new Bond theme tune:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDNtqy0zjJA
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    taffys said:

    ''Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.''



    Complete misrepresentation of UKIP position by desperate tory. UKIP favours a points system, which will allow Doctors and Engineers from the Asian sub continent to come here, but will bar white criminals from Germany or Poland.

    I didn't say it was the UKIP position. I said it was the position of "rather a lot of UKIPpers". Do you agree that the DT comments I reposted from below are abhorrent? These are people who profess to be UKIP supporters. They get hundreds of recommends. 500 loonies recommending nonsense like that would be a very significant slice of UKIP's claimed membership. You do not get lunacy like that from anyone else, not even Nats. Nobody.

    They're very typical of the online UKIPper. Unless you think someone at CCO has 500 sockpuppet accounts all recommending this stuff to discredit UKIP.

    What this says to me is that Cameron has wholly successfully removed these people from his party, and they've very angry. It reflects very badly on Farage's judgement that he associates with and cannot control such people.
    What this says is that you post nothing but smears and rubbish about UKIP.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I'll tell you one thing... the guys which have staked hundreds of thousands on a NO for a quick return on their money must be a little more nervous over the last few weeks...

    That'll be one it'll be hard to tell the missus...

    Depends. They might be the sort of people for whom it would make a damn fine dinner party anecdote, without missing the money one iota, or they might be using the bookmakers to hedge some contingent trades they have made elsewhere - say on the assumption that Sterling would fall sharply following a YES vote.
    More likely to be government/ nasty Tory funded slush money to manipulate the market or they are deranged and so will not care in either event.
    You're straying more than a bit into tinfoil hat territory Malc....
    nothing to beat a good conspiracy theory Patrick
    Suggesting that the Tories are deliberately funding someone to make a 400,000 quid NO bet in order to manipulate the betting market is beneath you Malcolm and frankly risible.
    Patrick , only if you take it seriously
    I will henceforth apply this caveat to all your postings Malc. Kicking myself for not doing so alot earlier.
    Patrick , I would have thought given some of my posts you would have guessed that by now
  • Mr. Neil, if there's an inquiry which didn't find the Glenrothes' register or an adequate explanation then it only reveals the possibility of something suspect having occurred.

    I'm not looking it up because I'm spending a few minutes at a time here in between getting some work done (working through a to-do list of minor changes, and every so often I take a short break).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    edited September 2014
    Neil said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    ...
    Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced.
    ...

    Does this mean that we will get the results announced one local authority area at a time?

    Wonder what the declaration times were for the last Scottish local elections...
    Local elections STV, so not good comparator, but looks like we should have a good handle on the result by around 2-3am when we can expect to know the vote totals from Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen and much of Fife and the Central Belt going by the expected 2010 declaration times.
    Previously stated I believe that it will not be done piecemeal
    The directions from the CCO indicates that results will come out authority by authority.
    Yes but only after central checking etc and come out from centre, not done locally, I thought
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    rcs1000 said:

    I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will)

    "Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - A.J.P. Taylor
    Back then there were cost and practicalities that reduced free movement.
    There were very large movements of people in the 19th century.

    The big difference is that there was more emigration from the UK than immigration. Emigration can be a problem for a country that is struggling, but for a successful country it acts as a benefit.

    If the UK regained its emigrating spirit, net migration would come down to zero, and the country would rediscover its historical love of open borders.
    I doubt it. If a million Asians come in and half a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about net immigration of a half a million, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.

    If a million Asians come in and a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about ethnic cleansing and population replacement of the white English, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.

    Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.

    The ones who spout this stuff online may or may not be typical of UKIP generally, but they're certainly noisy and pretty typical of the online UKIPper. Civilised UKIPpers like iSam are far less in evidence.

    So when all we have by way of counterpoint to this stuff is Farage, Godfrey Bloom, Neil Hamilton, and that gay floods UKIP guy, well, what is one to think?
    I really don't understand why you keep posting this stuff, James. It is making you look ludicrous.
    Is that not the point
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    the possibility of something suspect having occurred

    Oh, go on then, give us your conspiracy theory, ought to be good for a laugh.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    malcolmg said:

    Neil said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    ...
    Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced.
    ...

    Does this mean that we will get the results announced one local authority area at a time?

    Wonder what the declaration times were for the last Scottish local elections...
    Local elections STV, so not good comparator, but looks like we should have a good handle on the result by around 2-3am when we can expect to know the vote totals from Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen and much of Fife and the Central Belt going by the expected 2010 declaration times.
    Previously stated I believe that it will not be done piecemeal
    The directions from the CCO indicates that results will come out authority by authority.
    Yes but only after central checking etc and come out from centre, not done locally, I thought
    That's not how I would interpret:

    "Separate counts will be held in each local authority area. COs will report local totals to the
    Chief Counting Officer Designate (CCO), who will verify them and authorise local
    announcements."
  • Mr. Neil, you don't think it's odd that the electoral register went missing?

    My favourite conspiracy is global warming. Are we at 15 or 20 years of flat-lining temperatures, completely unexplained by the alarmist guesswork of men who claim to be scientists and then increase their confidence in their own forecasts from 90% to 95% after their predictions are confounded by reality?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701

    Re the Kings, the BBC is reporting that the Prague Proton Therapy Centre has said Ashya is first required to undergo two cycles of chemotherapy.

    That is expected to take several weeks but afterwards he would be able to travel to Prague for proton therapy.

    This is, apparently, according to Dr Gary Nicolin, consultant paediatric oncologist at Southampton Hospital.

    Do I detect a momumental FU and total failure of communication?

    Or desperate parents doing diagnosis by the Internet, which is apparently becoming a bigger problem for the NHS. Chemo isn't very nice or pleasant by any account, and I can understand why anybody would want to avoid it, if possible, and especially for a child.
    While Mr Jessop you are absolutely right about both the problems arising from internet diagnosis and the problems with some at least chemotherapy, it does appear that either the medical staff at Southampton didn’\t explain things properly, or the parents didn’t hear.

    Or more likely, both. Sadly.

    I well recall trying to explain to a patient that there could be a mental component to pain, and being told that a) the patient wasn’t mad (it was her daughter I was talking to, b) that she was recording the (phone) conversation and c) that she was going to report me.
    She then hung up!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    Patrick said:

    Does anyone have any info on Catholic/Protestant vs YES/NO likelihood to vote in Scotland? I'm guessing there is quite some correlation.

    Patrick , by Protestant I think you may mean Orange Order who nowadays are just a small minority. They are for NO but doubt they are significant. Other non Orange Order Non Catholics will be what they are. I can only guess for Catholic vote but they have left Labour in droves for SNP in recent years so it would make sense that many of them will be for YES, especially given the performance of the OO.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    Neil said:

    malcolmg said:

    Neil said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    ...
    Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced.
    ...

    Does this mean that we will get the results announced one local authority area at a time?

    Wonder what the declaration times were for the last Scottish local elections...
    Local elections STV, so not good comparator, but looks like we should have a good handle on the result by around 2-3am when we can expect to know the vote totals from Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen and much of Fife and the Central Belt going by the expected 2010 declaration times.
    Previously stated I believe that it will not be done piecemeal
    The directions from the CCO indicates that results will come out authority by authority.
    Yes but only after central checking etc and come out from centre, not done locally, I thought
    That's not how I would interpret:

    "Separate counts will be held in each local authority area. COs will report local totals to the
    Chief Counting Officer Designate (CCO), who will verify them and authorise local
    announcements."
    Neil, I stand corrected
  • malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I'll tell you one thing... the guys which have staked hundreds of thousands on a NO for a quick return on their money must be a little more nervous over the last few weeks...

    That'll be one it'll be hard to tell the missus...

    Depends. They might be the sort of people for whom it would make a damn fine dinner party anecdote, without missing the money one iota, or they might be using the bookmakers to hedge some contingent trades they have made elsewhere - say on the assumption that Sterling would fall sharply following a YES vote.
    More likely to be government/ nasty Tory funded slush money to manipulate the market or they are deranged and so will not care in either event.
    You're straying more than a bit into tinfoil hat territory Malc....
    nothing to beat a good conspiracy theory Patrick
    Suggesting that the Tories are deliberately funding someone to make a 400,000 quid NO bet in order to manipulate the betting market is beneath you Malcolm and frankly risible.
    Patrick , only if you take it seriously
    I will henceforth apply this caveat to all your postings Malc. Kicking myself for not doing so alot earlier.
    Patrick , I would have thought given some of my posts you would have guessed that by now
    It's a weak 'get out clause' Malc. You expect everyone reading your stuff to guess which are just joshing and which are genuinely meant. Do you, for example, genuinely think that anyone who predicts a NO is 'deranged'?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited September 2014
    Twitter is alive with reports 10 labour councillors have resigned the party en masse in Wrexham....its a labour seat, Ian Lucas
  • taffys said:

    ''The cuts are not just for christmas though - we will need a decade of restraint - indeed the Brown years show we need perpetual restraint. We certainly will not get that from Labour.''

    People are fed up with this Cameroonian cr8p. If the government wanted to cut the deficit, it would. The fact is Cameron and Osborne are far too enamoured of state spending to do anything. That is why we get preachy sermons about decades of restraint, whilst a supposedly conservative government works out as many ways as it can to scr*w money off ordinary people and the deficit just gets bigger.

    P8ss off to labour.

    "... whilst a supposedly conservative government ..."

    It's a coalition government. Sadly, this makes the rest of your rant look rather silly.
  • Re the Kings, the BBC is reporting that the Prague Proton Therapy Centre has said Ashya is first required to undergo two cycles of chemotherapy.

    That is expected to take several weeks but afterwards he would be able to travel to Prague for proton therapy.

    This is, apparently, according to Dr Gary Nicolin, consultant paediatric oncologist at Southampton Hospital.

    Do I detect a momumental FU and total failure of communication?

    Or desperate parents doing diagnosis by the Internet, which is apparently becoming a bigger problem for the NHS. Chemo isn't very nice or pleasant by any account, and I can understand why anybody would want to avoid it, if possible, and especially for a child.
    While Mr Jessop you are absolutely right about both the problems arising from internet diagnosis and the problems with some at least chemotherapy, it does appear that either the medical staff at Southampton didn’\t explain things properly, or the parents didn’t hear.

    Or more likely, both. Sadly.

    I well recall trying to explain to a patient that there could be a mental component to pain, and being told that a) the patient wasn’t mad (it was her daughter I was talking to, b) that she was recording the (phone) conversation and c) that she was going to report me.
    She then hung up!
    I have/(d) a longstanding neurological issue with my ankle, and some numpties had the same reaction: "Neurological? It's all in your mind. Pull yourself out of it!"

    It will be interesting to hear the hospital's take on what happened, *if* they can give it.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited September 2014
    Odd story on resignation of ten Labour Councillors resigning in Wrexham. http://www.wrexham.com/news/labour-split-insight-cllr-rogers-issues-malcolm-king-response-47570.html

    Fighting like ferrets in a Welsh sack.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701
    taffys said:

    Twitter is alive with reports 10 labour councillors have resigned the party en masse in Wrexham....its a labour seat, Ian Lucas

    BBC says that the "resignations came a week after Mr Rogers (Council Leader, who is one of the resignees) removed Labour councillor Malcolm King as lead member for finance on the authority's executive board, for raising concerns about a child protection team's staff levels and case loads.

    Mr Rogers said an independent inquiry had found "little or no evidence" to support the allegations."

    Welsh Labour office in Cardiff seems to be being blamed.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701

    Re the Kings, the BBC is reporting that the Prague Proton Therapy Centre has said Ashya is first required to undergo two cycles of chemotherapy.

    That is expected to take several weeks but afterwards he would be able to travel to Prague for proton therapy.

    This is, apparently, according to Dr Gary Nicolin, consultant paediatric oncologist at Southampton Hospital.

    Do I detect a momumental FU and total failure of communication?

    Or desperate parents doing diagnosis by the Internet, which is apparently becoming a bigger problem for the NHS. Chemo isn't very nice or pleasant by any account, and I can understand why anybody would want to avoid it, if possible, and especially for a child.
    While Mr Jessop you are absolutely right about both the problems arising from internet diagnosis and the problems with some at least chemotherapy, it does appear that either the medical staff at Southampton didn’\t explain things properly, or the parents didn’t hear.

    Or more likely, both. Sadly.

    I well recall trying to explain to a patient that there could be a mental component to pain, and being told that a) the patient wasn’t mad (it was her daughter I was talking to, b) that she was recording the (phone) conversation and c) that she was going to report me.
    She then hung up!
    I have/(d) a longstanding neurological issue with my ankle, and some numpties had the same reaction: "Neurological? It's all in your mind. Pull yourself out of it!"

    It will be interesting to hear the hospital's take on what happened, *if* they can give it.
    I would not, and did not, suggest it was "all in her mind”. And I’m very sorry to read that you’ve had that sort of experience.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721

    taffys said:

    ''The cuts are not just for christmas though - we will need a decade of restraint - indeed the Brown years show we need perpetual restraint. We certainly will not get that from Labour.''

    People are fed up with this Cameroonian cr8p. If the government wanted to cut the deficit, it would. The fact is Cameron and Osborne are far too enamoured of state spending to do anything. That is why we get preachy sermons about decades of restraint, whilst a supposedly conservative government works out as many ways as it can to scr*w money off ordinary people and the deficit just gets bigger.

    P8ss off to labour.

    "... whilst a supposedly conservative government ..."

    It's a coalition government. Sadly, this makes the rest of your rant look rather silly.
    But left unfettered the Tories would have probably been no different.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4668/media-hamas-crimes

    Almost like their brothers in crime ISIS.
  • Re the Kings, the BBC is reporting that the Prague Proton Therapy Centre has said Ashya is first required to undergo two cycles of chemotherapy.

    That is expected to take several weeks but afterwards he would be able to travel to Prague for proton therapy.

    This is, apparently, according to Dr Gary Nicolin, consultant paediatric oncologist at Southampton Hospital.

    Do I detect a momumental FU and total failure of communication?

    Or desperate parents doing diagnosis by the Internet, which is apparently becoming a bigger problem for the NHS. Chemo isn't very nice or pleasant by any account, and I can understand why anybody would want to avoid it, if possible, and especially for a child.
    While Mr Jessop you are absolutely right about both the problems arising from internet diagnosis and the problems with some at least chemotherapy, it does appear that either the medical staff at Southampton didn’\t explain things properly, or the parents didn’t hear.

    Or more likely, both. Sadly.

    I well recall trying to explain to a patient that there could be a mental component to pain, and being told that a) the patient wasn’t mad (it was her daughter I was talking to, b) that she was recording the (phone) conversation and c) that she was going to report me.
    She then hung up!
    I have/(d) a longstanding neurological issue with my ankle, and some numpties had the same reaction: "Neurological? It's all in your mind. Pull yourself out of it!"

    It will be interesting to hear the hospital's take on what happened, *if* they can give it.
    I would not, and did not, suggest it was "all in her mind”. And I’m very sorry to read that you’ve had that sort of experience.
    Sorry, I had no intention to imply or say you did. It was the way people wrongly equate 'neurological' with 'mental'.

    Although in my case they may have been right, for the wrong reasons. ;-)
  • Itajai said:

    taffys said:

    ''The cuts are not just for christmas though - we will need a decade of restraint - indeed the Brown years show we need perpetual restraint. We certainly will not get that from Labour.''

    People are fed up with this Cameroonian cr8p. If the government wanted to cut the deficit, it would. The fact is Cameron and Osborne are far too enamoured of state spending to do anything. That is why we get preachy sermons about decades of restraint, whilst a supposedly conservative government works out as many ways as it can to scr*w money off ordinary people and the deficit just gets bigger.

    P8ss off to labour.

    "... whilst a supposedly conservative government ..."

    It's a coalition government. Sadly, this makes the rest of your rant look rather silly.
    But left unfettered the Tories would have probably been no different.
    We'll never know. But that would imply the Lib Dems had no effect, and that would seem odd, to say the least.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701

    Re the Kings, the BBC is reporting that the Prague Proton Therapy Centre has said Ashya is first required to undergo two cycles of chemotherapy.

    That is expected to take several weeks but afterwards he would be able to travel to Prague for proton therapy.

    This is, apparently, according to Dr Gary Nicolin, consultant paediatric oncologist at Southampton Hospital.

    Do I detect a momumental FU and total failure of communication?

    Or desperate parents doing diagnosis by the Internet, which is apparently becoming a bigger problem for the NHS. Chemo isn't very nice or pleasant by any account, and I can understand why anybody would want to avoid it, if possible, and especially for a child.
    While Mr Jessop you are absolutely right about both the problems arising from internet diagnosis and the problems with some at least chemotherapy, it does appear that either the medical staff at Southampton didn’\t explain things properly, or the parents didn’t hear.

    Or more likely, both. Sadly.

    I well recall trying to explain to a patient that there could be a mental component to pain, and being told that a) the patient wasn’t mad (it was her daughter I was talking to, b) that she was recording the (phone) conversation and c) that she was going to report me.
    She then hung up!
    I have/(d) a longstanding neurological issue with my ankle, and some numpties had the same reaction: "Neurological? It's all in your mind. Pull yourself out of it!"

    It will be interesting to hear the hospital's take on what happened, *if* they can give it.
    I would not, and did not, suggest it was "all in her mind”. And I’m very sorry to read that you’ve had that sort of experience.
    Sorry, I had no intention to imply or say you did. It was the way people wrongly equate 'neurological' with 'mental'.

    Although in my case they may have been right, for the wrong reasons. ;-)
    Thanks. Pain can be a very complex matter with which to deal.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    MikeK said:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4668/media-hamas-crimes

    Almost like their brothers in crime ISIS.

    Am guessing Warsi is preparing her statement?
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721

    Itajai said:

    taffys said:

    ''The cuts are not just for christmas though - we will need a decade of restraint - indeed the Brown years show we need perpetual restraint. We certainly will not get that from Labour.''

    People are fed up with this Cameroonian cr8p. If the government wanted to cut the deficit, it would. The fact is Cameron and Osborne are far too enamoured of state spending to do anything. That is why we get preachy sermons about decades of restraint, whilst a supposedly conservative government works out as many ways as it can to scr*w money off ordinary people and the deficit just gets bigger.

    P8ss off to labour.

    "... whilst a supposedly conservative government ..."

    It's a coalition government. Sadly, this makes the rest of your rant look rather silly.
    But left unfettered the Tories would have probably been no different.
    We'll never know. But that would imply the Lib Dems had no effect, and that would seem odd, to say the least.
    I'd say, the Tory high command were happy with the cover the LDs gave them to pursue NuLab-lite policies.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited September 2014
    Itajai said:

    But left unfettered the Tories would have probably been no different.

    Possibly true, since Osborne is achieving the fastest fiscal tightening ever atttempted in the UK, and (amazingly) doing so in conjunction with falling unemployment and, now, good growth figures. Only the most purblind could deny that he's got the balance just right.

    Still, if you'd prefer a higher deficit you can always vote UKIP. Not only will that make a Labour government more likely, but UKIP themselves have been advocating policies to increase the deficit: 'protecting benefits', re-introducing the spare-room subsidy, and income-tax reductions:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/how-ukip-turning-left-economy

    http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/opinions/exclusive-what-will-ukips-election-2015-manifesto-look-like
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    My latest projection of UKIP seats to be won at the 2015 GE.

    Things are looking up for UKIP.
    If Scotland votes Yes, the number of seats will be 47
    If Scotland votes No, the number of seats will be 44

    And the projection above is without a Clacton win with Carswell.
    Should Carswell win, expect the number of seats won to increase by at least 12%.



  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Cathy Newman (@cathynewman)
    03/09/2014 16:44
    . @DouglasCarswell on why he quit, who might join him, & what he thinks about UKIP's attitude to women & immigrants. Tonight at 7 #c4news
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701
    MikeK said:

    My latest projection of UKIP seats to be won at the 2015 GE.

    Things are looking up for UKIP.
    If Scotland votes Yes, the number of seats will be 47
    If Scotland votes No, the number of seats will be 44

    And the projection above is without a Clacton win with Carswell.
    Should Carswell win, expect the number of seats won to increase by at least 12%.



    Are you seriously suggesting UKIP will win over 50 seats if Carswell wins? What odds can one get on that?
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721

    Itajai said:

    But left unfettered the Tories would have probably been no different.

    Possibly true, since Osborne is achieving the fastest fiscal tightening ever atttempted in the UK, and (amazingly) doing so in conjunction with falling unemployment and, now, good growth figures. Only the most purblind could deny that he's got the balance just right.

    Still, if you'd prefer a higher deficit you can always vote UKIP. Not only will that make a Labour government more likely, but UKIP themselves have been advocating policies to increase the deficit: 'protecting benefits', re-introducing the spare-room subsidy, and income-tax reductions:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/how-ukip-turning-left-economy

    http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/opinions/exclusive-what-will-ukips-election-2015-manifesto-look-like
    Actually I think the State steals and mis-spends far too much of the country's wealth.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    SeanT said:

    Stuart Dickson's theory about the lack of Indypolls is beguiling.

    And yet, I can't help thinking: if the NO side was sitting on polling data which said YES was headed for victory, then we'd be seeing total panic in London (as the financial chaos and pain after a YES will be worse than the political pain and chaos).

    Yet I don't see panic. Nerves, but not panic.

    I therefore tend to edmundintokyo's reasoning (though not all of his inferences).

    Another curiosity is the lack of YES-supportive polling. In the past the SNP and that guy in Somerset have commissioned polls from Panelbase just when they needed a boost. Surely now would be the perfect time to do that again, to prove that YES has the momentum?

    Yet, nothing - apart from rumours on Twitter.

    Did I mention that if he loses the vote, Cameron will resign?

    Surely, polls would be getting leaked?

    I was pretty sure that an Ipsos Mori Sindy poll was in the offing.

  • Itajai said:

    Actually I think the State steals and mis-spends far too much of the country's wealth.

    Yes, that's why we need three terms of Conservative government to put the country back fully on its feet - these things take time. However, we may go back to the bad old ways in May of next year, wasting another decade. We shall see.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    MD

    "Are we at 15 or 20 years of flat-lining temperatures, completely unexplained by the alarmist guesswork of men who claim to be scientists and then increase their confidence in their own forecasts from 90% to 95% after their predictions are confounded by reality?"

    The point is you aren't a scientist. Why would you expect with just a cursory glance at an odd article or two expect to have the knowledge that many have spent a lifetime acquiring? According to the vast majority who have actually spent years studying this subject the evidence is overwhelming.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701
    “Interesting” article on the Guardian’s site this afternoon: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/03/rotherham-councillors-abuse-information-confidential
    First para is: Councillors in Rotherham were told at a seminar in 2005 not to publicly discuss information about the town's child sexual exploitation problem because it was "confidential" and could jeopardise police investigations, according to three councillors present at the time.

    Lower down,
    (Cllr) Wyatt acknowledged that he knew then that grooming was happening, both locally and nationally, and councillors were told that "steps were being taken to deal with it". But he insisted: "It was not at the scale we have subsequently found out.”

    OMG. What else is going to come out.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Itajai said:

    Itajai said:

    taffys said:

    ''The cuts are not just for christmas though - we will need a decade of restraint - indeed the Brown years show we need perpetual restraint. We certainly will not get that from Labour.''

    People are fed up with this Cameroonian cr8p. If the government wanted to cut the deficit, it would. The fact is Cameron and Osborne are far too enamoured of state spending to do anything. That is why we get preachy sermons about decades of restraint, whilst a supposedly conservative government works out as many ways as it can to scr*w money off ordinary people and the deficit just gets bigger.

    P8ss off to labour.

    "... whilst a supposedly conservative government ..."

    It's a coalition government. Sadly, this makes the rest of your rant look rather silly.
    But left unfettered the Tories would have probably been no different.
    We'll never know. But that would imply the Lib Dems had no effect, and that would seem odd, to say the least.
    I'd say, the Tory high command were happy with the cover the LDs gave them to pursue NuLab-lite policies.
    Nonsense.

  • Roger said:

    MD

    "Are we at 15 or 20 years of flat-lining temperatures, completely unexplained by the alarmist guesswork of men who claim to be scientists and then increase their confidence in their own forecasts from 90% to 95% after their predictions are confounded by reality?"

    The point is you aren't a scientist. Why would you expect with just a cursory glance at an odd article or two expect to have the knowledge that many have spent a lifetime acquiring? According to the vast majority who have actually spent years studying this subject the evidence is overwhelming.

    If they have spent a lifetime acquiring 'knowledge' (at the taxpayers expense) then why haven't they got a clue what is going on?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    ChrisWynThom ‏@ChrisWynThom 28m
    Jill Dando murder witness comes forward to claim detectives IGNORED his evidence http://fb.me/77BY1lXCT
  • Voters – including many Labour supporters – think David Cameron should remain Tory leader and PM in the event of a ‘yes’ vote

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/03/public-no-cameron-shouldnt-resign-if-scotland-vote/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Britain now up to 9th in world competitiveness league: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/11070551/Britain-is-worlds-ninth-most-competitive-country.html

    ""[The UK] benefits from an ICT uptake that is one of the highest in the world. That, coupled with a highly competitive and large market, allows for highly sophisticated and innovative businesses to spring up and develop," the report said."

    " a highly competitive and large market." That is what Scotland is apparently seriously considering giving up. We must be mad.
  • Voters – including many Labour supporters – think David Cameron should remain Tory leader and PM in the event of a ‘yes’ vote

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/03/public-no-cameron-shouldnt-resign-if-scotland-vote/

    Vote NO, get Ed! :)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Voters – including many Labour supporters – think David Cameron should remain Tory leader and PM in the event of a ‘yes’ vote

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/03/public-no-cameron-shouldnt-resign-if-scotland-vote/

    Cameron will ignore their wishes IMO.
  • Voters – including many Labour supporters – think David Cameron should remain Tory leader and PM in the event of a ‘yes’ vote

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/03/public-no-cameron-shouldnt-resign-if-scotland-vote/

    Clearly I belong to a different Demos to most of my - now former - countrymen.

    It is with regret that I feel compelled to declare the Independence of the Republic of Killerton, and I serve notice on the occupiers from the so-called "National Trust" militia to vacate my lands immediately.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,080
    Another great win for Yorkshire CCC - and in a Roses Match. How about an all Yorkshire England team - although without Kane Williamson of course?
  • Divided Scotland.

    Will there be bitterness in the event of a [ ] vote no/yes

    Yes vote: 39/50
    No vote: 35/54

    Yes voters think a Yes will be accepted (63) much more than a No (39) while No voters are pessimistic about either result - Yes vote bitterness: 71, No vote bitterness: 59.

    There is a huge gap on expectations in the event of a Yes vote between Yes & No voters - while expectations on a No vote are similar.

    Difference Yes VI vs No VI

    Yes vote
    Acceptance: +42
    Bitterness: -43

    No Vote
    Acceptance: +6
    Bitterness: -6

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/o6z4oeoi1n/Scotland_EndofAug_The_Times_140901.pdf
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    Sean

    "Did I mention that if he loses the vote, Cameron will resign?"

    I can't see why he should. There was nothing he could have done to alter the result apart from perhaps losing the last election and short of a public clamour I can't see where the pressure to go will come from.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    DavidL said:

    Britain now up to 9th in world competitiveness league: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/11070551/Britain-is-worlds-ninth-most-competitive-country.html

    ""[The UK] benefits from an ICT uptake that is one of the highest in the world. That, coupled with a highly competitive and large market, allows for highly sophisticated and innovative businesses to spring up and develop," the report said."

    " a highly competitive and large market." That is what Scotland is apparently seriously considering giving up. We must be mad.

    Why should anyone care about the economy being more "competitive" for rich people if all they're getting are crappy wages and bad living standards?
  • Roger said:

    Sean

    "Did I mention that if he loses the vote, Cameron will resign?"

    I can't see why he should. There was nothing he could have done to alter the result apart from perhaps losing the last election and short of a public clamour I can't see where the pressure to go will come from.

    The Tory party is not short of idiots on their back benches!

    It is however ludicrous that the PM of the UK should resign because of the votes of under 4% of the UK electorate.....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701
    edited September 2014

    Voters – including many Labour supporters – think David Cameron should remain Tory leader and PM in the event of a ‘yes’ vote

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/03/public-no-cameron-shouldnt-resign-if-scotland-vote/

    Clearly I belong to a different Demos to most of my - now former - countrymen.

    It is with regret that I feel compelled to declare the Independence of the Republic of Killerton, and I serve notice on the occupiers from the so-called "National Trust" militia to vacate my lands immediately.
    Republic? Republic? While I welcome the end of monarchies I'm a little surprised that you aren't setting up at least a principality!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,874
    In the past week both yougov and Survation have done polls which covered the aftermath of the second debate, the main event which would have impacted on the referendum, and both produced the same result 53-47 to No. As I understand it ICM is due to release 1 more poll, so that will be next week at the earliest. Of the remainder, Panelbase and TNS, Panelbase does 2 polls for the ST and Yes. Had Panelbase's polling for Yes showed a Yes lead surely they would have released it by now? (After all Panelbase produced the only poll to show a Yes lead when polling for the SNP). TNS tends to produce better results for No
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Danny565 said:

    DavidL said:

    Britain now up to 9th in world competitiveness league: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/11070551/Britain-is-worlds-ninth-most-competitive-country.html

    ""[The UK] benefits from an ICT uptake that is one of the highest in the world. That, coupled with a highly competitive and large market, allows for highly sophisticated and innovative businesses to spring up and develop," the report said."

    " a highly competitive and large market." That is what Scotland is apparently seriously considering giving up. We must be mad.

    Why should anyone care about the economy being more "competitive" for rich people if all they're getting are crappy wages and bad living standards?
    More people in jobs than ever. More people coming off the dole. These people are immeasurably better off. The other point to consider is that these people are now through their employers' having to pay for their pensions. There is no free lunch, especially in old age.
    ''UK employers have to automatically enrol their staff into a workplace pension if they meet certain criteria. The law on workplace pensions has now changed and every employer must comply.''

    http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/employers/what-is-automatic-enrolment.aspx
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    Interesting interview with parents of 'kidnapped' boy. Doesn't fully make sense. They were going to Spain to sell their holiday home and were then off to the Czech Republic to have the operation but when they saw the police they headed to Malaga where there was a hospital.....

    I'm sure one of the serious papers will fill in the dots this Sunday
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721

    Roger said:

    MD

    "Are we at 15 or 20 years of flat-lining temperatures, completely unexplained by the alarmist guesswork of men who claim to be scientists and then increase their confidence in their own forecasts from 90% to 95% after their predictions are confounded by reality?"

    The point is you aren't a scientist. Why would you expect with just a cursory glance at an odd article or two expect to have the knowledge that many have spent a lifetime acquiring? According to the vast majority who have actually spent years studying this subject the evidence is overwhelming.

    If they have spent a lifetime acquiring 'knowledge' (at the taxpayers expense) then why haven't they got a clue what is going on?
    Ah, climate "science". If ever there was case of politics masquerading as science.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701

    Danny565 said:

    DavidL said:

    Britain now up to 9th in world competitiveness league: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/11070551/Britain-is-worlds-ninth-most-competitive-country.html

    ""[The UK] benefits from an ICT uptake that is one of the highest in the world. That, coupled with a highly competitive and large market, allows for highly sophisticated and innovative businesses to spring up and develop," the report said."

    " a highly competitive and large market." That is what Scotland is apparently seriously considering giving up. We must be mad.

    Why should anyone care about the economy being more "competitive" for rich people if all they're getting are crappy wages and bad living standards?
    More people in jobs than ever. More people coming off the dole. These people are immeasurably better off. The other point to consider is that these people are now through their employers' having to pay for their pensions. There is no free lunch, especially in old age.
    ''UK employers have to automatically enrol their staff into a workplace pension if they meet certain criteria. The law on workplace pensions has now changed and every employer must comply.''

    http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/employers/what-is-automatic-enrolment.aspx
    As a result IDS's staff are forcing people to find some form of self-employment, with well below "living" wages. Why do you think there's more and more demand for food banks?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701
    Roger said:

    Interesting interview with parents of 'kidnapped' boy. Doesn't fully make sense. They were going to Spain to sell their holiday home and were then off to the Czech Republic to have the operation but when they saw the police they headed to Malaga where there was a hospital.....

    I'm sure one of the serious papers will fill in the dots this Sunday

    There's a lot about this affair that doesn't make sense, Roger.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Putin's navy will have to wait for its new toy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29052599
  • Furious Public Demand Rotherham Abuse Answers

    Members of the public have shouted and jeered at Rotherham councillors during a meeting to discuss last week's damning report about child sexual abuse.

    Dozens of people packed into a small chamber at the Town Hall, with one man demanding to know why they didn't act after a seminar about exploitation in 2005.

    One woman received applause after she shouted: "We are very angry and we don't know why all of you haven't resigned."


    http://news.sky.com/story/1329513/furious-public-demand-rotherham-abuse-answers

  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Roger said:

    MD

    "Are we at 15 or 20 years of flat-lining temperatures, completely unexplained by the alarmist guesswork of men who claim to be scientists and then increase their confidence in their own forecasts from 90% to 95% after their predictions are confounded by reality?"

    The point is you aren't a scientist. Why would you expect with just a cursory glance at an odd article or two expect to have the knowledge that many have spent a lifetime acquiring? According to the vast majority who have actually spent years studying this subject the evidence is overwhelming.

    There are no scientists who can explain the nearly 20 year 'pause' in global warming. Despite the rise in CO2 there has been no rise in atmospheric temperatures.
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/09/01/new-paper-on-the-pause-says-it-is-19-years-at-surface-and-16-26-years-at-the-lower-troposphere/
    What it does prove is their models are junk and, unlike what you pretend, they do indeed not know what they are talking about.
    Hardly any climate science scientific papers actually cite man made global warming as a reason for temperature change.
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/08/29/a-psychologists-scathing-review-of-john-cooks-97-consensus-nonsensus-paper/
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2014
    Has Obama finally grown a pair? Pretty tough speech to give while 50 miles from the Russian border. Bravo!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29052222
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    dr_spyn said:

    Putin's navy will have to wait for its new toy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29052599

    Seeing the French are involved, I doubt it will be for very long.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Sean

    "Did I mention that if he loses the vote, Cameron will resign?"

    I can't see why he should. There was nothing he could have done to alter the result apart from perhaps losing the last election and short of a public clamour I can't see where the pressure to go will come from.

    He could have offered Devomax. Which the Scots would have seized. Saving the union and screwing labour. Man's a fool.

    As for the clamour, it will come from his soul, his background, his sense of Etonian duty, and the queen's frosty silence in Buck House when they first meet after the Union has been lost.
    Still trying to build a meme?
  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    edited September 2014
    There's plenty of excuses for the lack of Indyref polls given newspapers are their main customers for such polls

    1) Voters in England are disinterested and therefore polls are not worth the Newspaper's expense

    2) Newspapers who are largely pro-Union and don't want to tempt fate

    3) There is a feeling that the result is getting closer and pro_Union newspapers do not want to create momentum for a yes vote

    4) Two or more of the above.......
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    dr_spyn said:

    Putin's navy will have to wait for its new toy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29052599

    Not a good omen for relying on foreign country to build your navy.
  • dr_spyn said:

    Putin's navy will have to wait for its new toy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29052599

    Then again, it is French-built :)
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited September 2014
    Brokenegggate.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29054026

    Someone has been helping the polis with their inquiries.

    Did anyone else play the internet game Egg Prescott?
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618

    Roger said:

    Interesting interview with parents of 'kidnapped' boy. Doesn't fully make sense. They were going to Spain to sell their holiday home and were then off to the Czech Republic to have the operation but when they saw the police they headed to Malaga where there was a hospital.....

    I'm sure one of the serious papers will fill in the dots this Sunday

    There's a lot about this affair that doesn't make sense, Roger.
    Yes I agree,also it is very difficult to just travel to Spain and quickly sell your house/apartment to raise money for the treatment.
    Just listened to the father on radio 4,and feel extremely sad for the family,it is one major f**kup all round.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    dr_spyn said:

    Putin's navy will have to wait for its new toy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29052599

    Not a good omen for relying on foreign country to build your navy.
    Such as an Independent Scotland that has reneged on its debt.
  • dr_spyn said:

    Putin's navy will have to wait for its new toy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29052599

    Not a good omen for relying on foreign country to build your navy.
    Apparently the decision to get the French involved was political.
  • Ugh, two weeks of endless Scotland coverage and obnoxious Scottish nationalists. I'm out. See you on the other side.
  • Oliver_PB said:

    Ugh, two weeks of endless Scotland coverage and obnoxious Scottish nationalists. I'm out. See you on the other side.

    The UK is your country!
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    MikeK said:

    My latest projection of UKIP seats to be won at the 2015 GE.

    Things are looking up for UKIP.
    If Scotland votes Yes, the number of seats will be 47
    If Scotland votes No, the number of seats will be 44

    And the projection above is without a Clacton win with Carswell.
    Should Carswell win, expect the number of seats won to increase by at least 12%.



    Are you seriously suggesting UKIP will win over 50 seats if Carswell wins? What odds can one get on that?
    Carswell and UKIO (and all those pensioners whose votes he seems so sure of)?
    Finkelstein in The Times
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4194922.ece
    has read Carswells Book - The End of Politics and the Birth of iDemocracy - and listed its salient points for his idea of a government. Is this a kipper agenda? Is it the voters?
    1. Taxes should be cut for the rich and increased for the middle class and the poor. We shouldn’t be taking the lowest paid out of tax.
    2 Income tax should be replaced by taxes on consumption and property that are not progressive.
    3 The government was wrong to step in and save ordinary depositors’ cash when the Royal Bank of Scotland was about to shut cash machines.
    4 The government should have cut more spending in this parliament and should cut faster in future.
    5 Reducing state pensions.
    6 Interest rates should be raised.
    7 The NHS should be privatised. The government shouldn’t run healthcare.
    8 This should also happen in education. Schools should be run much more like supermarkets.
    9 The education budget should be halved.
    10 The welfare budget should be halved.

    As Filkinstein says, it is not that the ideas themselves are necessarily stupid. The issue is whether he is right that implementing these ideas is both plausible and even more so with his ideas on 'iDemocracy'He pointedly adds, 'I think it is highly unlikely that Mr Carswell will enter his by-election campaign calling for the privatisation of the NHS and higher taxes in Clacton so that they can share the burden with the taxpayers of Islington.'


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited September 2014
    AndyJS said:

    Voters – including many Labour supporters – think David Cameron should remain Tory leader and PM in the event of a ‘yes’ vote

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/03/public-no-cameron-shouldnt-resign-if-scotland-vote/

    Cameron will ignore their wishes IMO.
    I think so too, although I am curious that so many would want him to remain in the event of a Yes vote, particularly as the link details that quite often people will say they want someone to resign if you ask them, regardless of the context. What benefit do people see in Cameron remaining PM after such an epic humiliation (albeit one that is largely out of his influence), particularly as whoever took over would only do so for a short time in any case before Ed M takes over next year, limiting any damage they could do.

  • Oliver_PB said:

    Ugh, two weeks of endless Scotland coverage and obnoxious Scottish nationalists. I'm out. See you on the other side.

    The UK is your country!
    Not according to 85% of English and Welsh respondents to the 2011 Census it isn't....
  • dr_spyn said:

    Brokenegggate.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29054026

    Someone has been helping the polis with their inquiries.

    Did anyone else play the internet game Egg Prescott?

    Good. According to some on here he was supposedly a NO plant to make YES bad, so I'm sure we'll now find out soon enough.

    Assuming of course the sheriff and officials haven't been paid off by NO, of course.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Just to remind everyone that ROGER is always wrong, Yesterday he was pontificating in response to me that the Speaker "had hardly done anything wrong".. surprising take really considering how the Speaker was humiliated by MP's today.

    Bercow is finished, its just a question of time.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    MikeK said:

    My latest projection of UKIP seats to be won at the 2015 GE.

    Things are looking up for UKIP.
    If Scotland votes Yes, the number of seats will be 47
    If Scotland votes No, the number of seats will be 44

    And the projection above is without a Clacton win with Carswell.
    Should Carswell win, expect the number of seats won to increase by at least 12%.



    Are you seriously suggesting UKIP will win over 50 seats if Carswell wins? What odds can one get on that?

    1. Taxes should be cut for the rich and increased for the middle class and the poor. We shouldn’t be taking the lowest paid out of tax.
    2 Income tax should be replaced by taxes on consumption and property that are not progressive.
    3 The government was wrong to step in and save ordinary depositors’ cash when the Royal Bank of Scotland was about to shut cash machines.
    4 The government should have cut more spending in this parliament and should cut faster in future.
    5 Reducing state pensions.
    6 Interest rates should be raised.
    7 The NHS should be privatised. The government shouldn’t run healthcare.
    8 This should also happen in education. Schools should be run much more like supermarkets.
    9 The education budget should be halved.
    10 The welfare budget should be halved.



    A few of those would benefit UKIP's rich backers. Some of that is sheer madness, such as Numbers 3 and 9.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    dr_spyn said:

    Putin's navy will have to wait for its new toy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29052599

    Not a good omen for relying on foreign country to build your navy.
    For once I agree with you. Never let you defence be in pawn to another country that in the future may be your enemy.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701
    jayfdee said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting interview with parents of 'kidnapped' boy. Doesn't fully make sense. They were going to Spain to sell their holiday home and were then off to the Czech Republic to have the operation but when they saw the police they headed to Malaga where there was a hospital.....

    I'm sure one of the serious papers will fill in the dots this Sunday

    There's a lot about this affair that doesn't make sense, Roger.
    Yes I agree,also it is very difficult to just travel to Spain and quickly sell your house/apartment to raise money for the treatment.
    Just listened to the father on radio 4,and feel extremely sad for the family,it is one major f**kup all round.

    it is one major f**kup all round.

    My view exactly.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    "I’ve made this point before – we urgently need more polling."

    Suits you sir

    Don't we all?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    As Filkinstein says, it is not that the ideas themselves are necessarily stupid.

    That's all tory loyalists have to offer. Jibes about UKIP and threats about Labour.
  • MikeK said:

    My latest projection of UKIP seats to be won at the 2015 GE.

    Things are looking up for UKIP.
    If Scotland votes Yes, the number of seats will be 47
    If Scotland votes No, the number of seats will be 44

    And the projection above is without a Clacton win with Carswell.
    Should Carswell win, expect the number of seats won to increase by at least 12%.



    Are you seriously suggesting UKIP will win over 50 seats if Carswell wins? What odds can one get on that?

    1. Taxes should be cut for the rich and increased for the middle class and the poor. We shouldn’t be taking the lowest paid out of tax.
    2 Income tax should be replaced by taxes on consumption and property that are not progressive.
    3 The government was wrong to step in and save ordinary depositors’ cash when the Royal Bank of Scotland was about to shut cash machines.
    4 The government should have cut more spending in this parliament and should cut faster in future.
    5 Reducing state pensions.
    6 Interest rates should be raised.
    7 The NHS should be privatised. The government shouldn’t run healthcare.
    8 This should also happen in education. Schools should be run much more like supermarkets.
    9 The education budget should be halved.
    10 The welfare budget should be halved.



    A few of those would benefit UKIP's rich backers. Some of that is sheer madness, such as Numbers 3 and 9.

    Yes, and of course several of them (notably 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 9, and 10) either directly contradict what we know of UKIP policy, or would make many UKIP supporters run a mile.

    I very much doubt that Douglas Carswell will be a member of UKIP in five years' time.
This discussion has been closed.