An interesting point that hasn't yet been mentioned relates to the publication of exit polls. By paragraph 8(2) of schedule 7 to the Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013, it is an offence to publish an exit poll before the close of polling. However, section 29(2)(a) of the Scotland Act 1998 provides that an Act of the Scottish Parliament is outside the legislative competence of the Parliament if 'it would form part of the law of a country or territory other than Scotland'. No provision of the 2013 Act therefore extends to England and Wales, or to Northern Ireland. It will therefore be lawful to publish exit polls before the close of the poll, in England and Wales, and Northern Ireland, provided that publication does not also occur in Scotland.
But would you tell us?
A bigger question might be whether there will in fact be an exit poll and how much use it will be given the level of postal voting.
Given the level of abuse and intimidation that seems to be directed towards anyone who says they will vote NO in Scotland, I can understand why there aren't many NO posters up in people's houses. If I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't want a brick through my window.. Or worse. You'd have to be very brave. This is why we have a secret ballot, thank goodness.
Who/Where etc? There was that instance of a shop displaying posters that had a large bin set alight outside in an apparent arson attack. Oh wait, that was a Yes posters...
The idiots that chucked eggs at Murphy - were they 'No'ers?
No complaint and never found despite clear photo's, so you are likely correct for once
Given the level of abuse and intimidation that seems to be directed towards anyone who says they will vote NO in Scotland, I can understand why there aren't many NO posters up in people's houses. If I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't want a brick through my window.. Or worse. You'd have to be very brave. This is why we have a secret ballot, thank goodness.
Who/Where etc? There was that instance of a shop displaying posters that had a large bin set alight outside in an apparent arson attack. Oh wait, that was a Yes posters...
The idiots that chucked eggs at Murphy - were they 'No'ers?
Ha! HaHaHaHaHa!
Guffaw and indeed Chortle.
Seriously? Politician gets egged! wow, these Yessers must be real cnuts!
The only >real< acts of violence that i've heard about have been perpetrated by loony right wingers in the No camp. (kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach, lobbing a chair from a balcony, hitting a kid with a broken bottle etc) not that you see any of that in the press/bbc. But an MP GET EGGED!
Wow, just wow...
If that excites you, may I suggest getting out more?
Given the level of abuse and intimidation that seems to be directed towards anyone who says they will vote NO in Scotland, I can understand why there aren't many NO posters up in people's houses. If I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't want a brick through my window.. Or worse. You'd have to be very brave. This is why we have a secret ballot, thank goodness.
Who/Where etc? There was that instance of a shop displaying posters that had a large bin set alight outside in an apparent arson attack. Oh wait, that was a Yes posters...
The idiots that chucked eggs at Murphy - were they 'No'ers?
Ha! HaHaHaHaHa!
Guffaw and indeed Chortle.
Seriously? Politician gets egged! wow, these Yessers must be real cnuts!
The only >real< acts of violence that i've heard about have been perpetrated by loony right wingers in the No camp. (kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach, lobbing a chair from a balcony, hitting a kid with a broken bottle etc) not that you see any of that in the press/bbc. But an MP GET EGGED!
I'll tell you one thing... the guys which have staked hundreds of thousands on a NO for a quick return on their money must be a little more nervous over the last few weeks...
That'll be one it'll be hard to tell the missus...
Depends. They might be the sort of people for whom it would make a damn fine dinner party anecdote, without missing the money one iota, or they might be using the bookmakers to hedge some contingent trades they have made elsewhere - say on the assumption that Sterling would fall sharply following a YES vote.
More likely to be government/ nasty Tory funded slush money to manipulate the market or they are deranged and so will not care in either event.
Nurse!
Malkies rattled as his old age pension evaporates.
Given the level of abuse and intimidation that seems to be directed towards anyone who says they will vote NO in Scotland, I can understand why there aren't many NO posters up in people's houses. If I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't want a brick through my window.. Or worse. You'd have to be very brave. This is why we have a secret ballot, thank goodness.
Who/Where etc? There was that instance of a shop displaying posters that had a large bin set alight outside in an apparent arson attack. Oh wait, that was a Yes posters...
The idiots that chucked eggs at Murphy - were they 'No'ers?
Ha! HaHaHaHaHa!
Guffaw and indeed Chortle.
Seriously? Politician gets egged! wow, these Yessers must be real cnuts!
The only >real< acts of violence that i've heard about have been perpetrated by loony right wingers in the No camp. (kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach, lobbing a chair from a balcony, hitting a kid with a broken bottle etc) not that you see any of that in the press/bbc. But an MP GET EGGED!
Wow, just wow...
If that excites you, may I suggest getting out more?
Excite? No, it just amuses me that you see one incident of an MP getting egged* as somehow supporting the notion that No supporters are feart of having bricks through their windows.
*One incident of egging during the whole campaign is remarkable restrained dontchathink?
I'll tell you one thing... the guys which have staked hundreds of thousands on a NO for a quick return on their money must be a little more nervous over the last few weeks...
That'll be one it'll be hard to tell the missus...
Depends. They might be the sort of people for whom it would make a damn fine dinner party anecdote, without missing the money one iota, or they might be using the bookmakers to hedge some contingent trades they have made elsewhere - say on the assumption that Sterling would fall sharply following a YES vote.
More likely to be government/ nasty Tory funded slush money to manipulate the market or they are deranged and so will not care in either event.
You're straying more than a bit into tinfoil hat territory Malc....
I'll tell you one thing... the guys which have staked hundreds of thousands on a NO for a quick return on their money must be a little more nervous over the last few weeks...
That'll be one it'll be hard to tell the missus...
Depends. They might be the sort of people for whom it would make a damn fine dinner party anecdote, without missing the money one iota, or they might be using the bookmakers to hedge some contingent trades they have made elsewhere - say on the assumption that Sterling would fall sharply following a YES vote.
More likely to be government/ nasty Tory funded slush money to manipulate the market or they are deranged and so will not care in either event.
Emily Thornberry on daily politics saying we should let British jihadists back in then lock them up after they've taken part in terror attacks
Never seen Andrew Neil as animated & angry worth a watch on iplayer
If a British national or resident has engaged in jihad in Syria or Iraq, whether on behalf of the Caliphate or otherwise, he is liable, upon his return, to immediate indictment, conviction and punishment for an offence contrary to sections 63A or 63B of the Terrorism Act 2000 (cf. section 17(1) of the Terrorism Act 2006, which is an even more draconian provision). The question is not therefore about jihadis, but those whom the government suspects of having committed criminal offences, but which cannot be proved before a court of law.
Given the level of abuse and intimidation that seems to be directed towards anyone who says they will vote NO in Scotland, I can understand why there aren't many NO posters up in people's houses. If I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't want a brick through my window.. Or worse. You'd have to be very brave. This is why we have a secret ballot, thank goodness.
Who/Where etc? There was that instance of a shop displaying posters that had a large bin set alight outside in an apparent arson attack. Oh wait, that was a Yes posters...
The idiots that chucked eggs at Murphy - were they 'No'ers?
Ha! HaHaHaHaHa!
Guffaw and indeed Chortle.
Seriously? Politician gets egged! wow, these Yessers must be real cnuts!
The only >real< acts of violence that i've heard about have been perpetrated by loony right wingers in the No camp. (kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach, lobbing a chair from a balcony, hitting a kid with a broken bottle etc) not that you see any of that in the press/bbc. But an MP GET EGGED!
Wow, just wow...
If that excites you, may I suggest getting out more?
Sky: Ashya King's father now claiming he is being prevented from seeing his child, and custody has been withdrawn from him, due to papers served yesterday in the UK...
long hair and a beard certainly seem to be sure signs of a lack of a sense of humour
Certainly Jesus was no fun at all.
Jesus would have had short hair (men's fashion at the time).
Jesus didnt follow other men's rules!
You mean "Jesus didn't follow men's rules!". No "other" about it.
You believe what you want to believe, Charles.
That's why it's called "faith"...
Charles, a few threads ago you asked how I was settling in. Just got back from a very brief visit to the Bay; I'm moving for good in a few weeks after some overseas travel. Thanks for asking!
I'll tell you one thing... the guys which have staked hundreds of thousands on a NO for a quick return on their money must be a little more nervous over the last few weeks...
That'll be one it'll be hard to tell the missus...
Depends. They might be the sort of people for whom it would make a damn fine dinner party anecdote, without missing the money one iota, or they might be using the bookmakers to hedge some contingent trades they have made elsewhere - say on the assumption that Sterling would fall sharply following a YES vote.
More likely to be government/ nasty Tory funded slush money to manipulate the market or they are deranged and so will not care in either event.
Nurse!
Malkies rattled as his old age pension evaporates.
Dear Dear your intellect amazes me, one day you make make the dizzy heights of cretin.
Anyone got any info on how/when/where the result of the IndyRef is going to be declared?
"The Chief Counting Officer intends to operate the results collation centre and announce the referendum result from the Royal Highland Centre at Ingliston near Edinburgh"
Announcement expected in the morning following the vote, exact timing uncertain.
Sky: Ashya King's father now claiming he is being prevented from seeing his child, and custody has been withdrawn from him, due to papers served yesterday in the UK...
Wtf?
This is going to end up costing the Gov't/CPS a fortune when the King family get round to taking them to the cleaners.
Anyone got any info on how/when/where the result of the IndyRef is going to be declared?
THE outcome of next year's independence referendum will be announced if one side has an unassailable lead even if all the counts have yet to be declared, according to a report.
Chief Counting Officer Designate, Mary Pitcaithly, said yesterday there would only be official declaration once all 32 local counts had been fully verified.
Ms Pitcaithly, convener of the Electoral Management Board for Scotland and chief executive of Falkirk Council, said it did not necessarily mean the result would be announced overnight after the polling day on September 18.
She said: "Getting the result right is more important than getting it quickly."
She added that estimates of when the result would be given following an overnight count after polling day on September 18 "cannot be given with any confidence".
Ms Pitcaithly examined the issues which could affect the timing of counts across Scotland in a paper.
It said: "There is theatre in any electoral event and the Scottish independence referendum will be a major event at a national and international level. While recognising the drama, democracy is best served by accurate, careful processes, not necessarily fast ones."
Ms Pitcaithly, concluded: "With the current processes and volumes of ballots, particularly postal votes, it is unlikely to be in the early hours as might have been the experience in previous elections. Turnout, volumes of postal votes and logistical factors dependent on the geography and climate must all come into the consideration."
Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced.
A final declaration of the overall result will only be made after all 32 local results have been checked in this way.
The paper says factors such as bad weather or a high turnout could cause extended counts and a later declaration. But it makes clear: "As counts are completed in each of the 32 areas and totals announced, there may be a point, when the remaining certified totals yet to be received from Counting Officers could not change the overall outcome, when the outcome will be known before the national declaration."
It stresses: "While there is a great desire to know the result, the voter needs to be assured the result that is declared is correct.
"The result needs to be accurate and based on secure and transparent processes. A result delivered quickly but about which there are questions of accuracy or integrity would undermine the entire referendum process."
In Argyll and Bute, votes are normally counted the day after an election because ballot boxes need to be brought in from islands in the region, but plans are in place to tally the votes overnight.
I'll tell you one thing... the guys which have staked hundreds of thousands on a NO for a quick return on their money must be a little more nervous over the last few weeks...
That'll be one it'll be hard to tell the missus...
Depends. They might be the sort of people for whom it would make a damn fine dinner party anecdote, without missing the money one iota, or they might be using the bookmakers to hedge some contingent trades they have made elsewhere - say on the assumption that Sterling would fall sharply following a YES vote.
More likely to be government/ nasty Tory funded slush money to manipulate the market or they are deranged and so will not care in either event.
You're straying more than a bit into tinfoil hat territory Malc....
nothing to beat a good conspiracy theory Patrick
Suggesting that the Tories are deliberately funding someone to make a 400,000 quid NO bet in order to manipulate the betting market is beneath you Malcolm and frankly risible.
At the risk of wandering into Neil territory I really wonder if the latest revisions are a double serving of good news as claimed by Osborne. They disclose that the economy collapsed by less than previously thought, that it has grown by more than previously thought, that productivity has been better than previously thought and that we exceeded the previous peak of GDP last year rather than this.
And yet the deficit remains horrendous. When we were growing exceptionally slowly out of recession that was understandable. What is the excuse now?
I fear that one consequence of these revisions is that the proportion of the deficit that is structural will have to be increased yet again meaning that yet more tax increases or spending cuts (or both) will be necessary to eliminate it. Growth is simply not going to get us out of this.
Quick thanks to Socrates for his reply to my post on the last thread - surprisingly in view of some of our past exchanges we seem to be quite close on this. I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will) - the points system is a good economic control and including a commitment to observe peaceful democratic values would be reasonable too. I do favour free movement in Europe, and we may disagree on that, but evidently not to the extent of thinking it undermines democracy.
Sometimes dialogue on PB brings more agreement than one expects. Back to my meetings...
At the risk of wandering into Neil territory I really wonder if the latest revisions are a double serving of good news as claimed by Osborne. They disclose that the economy collapsed by less than previously thought, that it has grown by more than previously thought, that productivity has been better than previously thought and that we exceeded the previous peak of GDP last year rather than this.
And yet the deficit remains horrendous. When we were growing exceptionally slowly out of recession that was understandable. What is the excuse now?
I fear that one consequence of these revisions is that the proportion of the deficit that is structural will have to be increased yet again meaning that yet more tax increases or spending cuts (or both) will be necessary to eliminate it. Growth is simply not going to get us out of this.
Growth of the right kind will get us out of it, it's just Osborne doesn't know how to help it along.
THE outcome of next year's independence referendum will be announced if one side has an unassailable lead even if all the counts have yet to be declared, according to a report.
Chief Counting Officer Designate, Mary Pitcaithly, said yesterday there would only be official declaration once all 32 local counts had been fully verified.
Ms Pitcaithly, convener of the Electoral Management Board for Scotland and chief executive of Falkirk Council, said it did not necessarily mean the result would be announced overnight after the polling day on September 18.
She said: "Getting the result right is more important than getting it quickly."
She added that estimates of when the result would be given following an overnight count after polling day on September 18 "cannot be given with any confidence".
Ms Pitcaithly examined the issues which could affect the timing of counts across Scotland in a paper.
It said: "There is theatre in any electoral event and the Scottish independence referendum will be a major event at a national and international level. While recognising the drama, democracy is best served by accurate, careful processes, not necessarily fast ones."
Ms Pitcaithly, concluded: "With the current processes and volumes of ballots, particularly postal votes, it is unlikely to be in the early hours as might have been the experience in previous elections. Turnout, volumes of postal votes and logistical factors dependent on the geography and climate must all come into the consideration."
Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced.
A final declaration of the overall result will only be made after all 32 local results have been checked in this way.
The paper says factors such as bad weather or a high turnout could cause extended counts and a later declaration. But it makes clear: "As counts are completed in each of the 32 areas and totals announced, there may be a point, when the remaining certified totals yet to be received from Counting Officers could not change the overall outcome, when the outcome will be known before the national declaration."
It stresses: "While there is a great desire to know the result, the voter needs to be assured the result that is declared is correct.
"The result needs to be accurate and based on secure and transparent processes. A result delivered quickly but about which there are questions of accuracy or integrity would undermine the entire referendum process."
Thanks. Sounds like a dog's breakfast. I wonder if there are any contingencies in place to deal with civil unrest...
Sky: Ashya King's father now claiming he is being prevented from seeing his child, and custody has been withdrawn from him, due to papers served yesterday in the UK...
Wtf?
By paragraph 1 of an order of the High Court of Justice (Family Division) (HHJ Sir Gavyn Arthur), dated 29 August 2014, the child was made a ward of the High Court during his minority, or until further order. It is unclear why that would necessarily mean that the father was prevented from seeing the child, but who knows which Spanish practices pertain on the Continent...
I reckon if this was a London Independence referendum there'd be alot more polls about !
Can us softies in the South East also get in with London as well? ta muchly
No - Antifrank has made it very clear that London should be for Londoners only. Of course anyone can become a Londoner but you do have to either live or work in London.
The M25 will be the border.
Look at the problems various countries have with sharing rivers across national borders, and you will realise that London will want to take the entirety of the River Thames watershed with it, and the Medway too.
Are any bookies offering odds on a united Ireland by, say, 2025?
Just thinking of the back of a BBC news article. If Scotland does vote YES, surely there's a chance NI might either also secede (unlikely to be viable as independent state) or reunite with Ireland in a further referendum as unionists lose heart.
Or (for a crazy betting scenario) could NI even split from the UK and reunify just with an independent Scotland?
At the risk of wandering into Neil territory I really wonder if the latest revisions are a double serving of good news as claimed by Osborne. They disclose that the economy collapsed by less than previously thought, that it has grown by more than previously thought, that productivity has been better than previously thought and that we exceeded the previous peak of GDP last year rather than this.
And yet the deficit remains horrendous. When we were growing exceptionally slowly out of recession that was understandable. What is the excuse now?
I fear that one consequence of these revisions is that the proportion of the deficit that is structural will have to be increased yet again meaning that yet more tax increases or spending cuts (or both) will be necessary to eliminate it. Growth is simply not going to get us out of this.
Growth of the right kind will get us out of it, it's just Osborne doesn't know how to help it along.
I reckon if this was a London Independence referendum there'd be alot more polls about !
Can us softies in the South East also get in with London as well? ta muchly
No - Antifrank has made it very clear that London should be for Londoners only. Of course anyone can become a Londoner but you do have to either live or work in London.
Ashya Kings father says the doctors at Southampton were going to kill his child or leave him a vegetable, and that he told them he was taking ashya abroad days before he did so
I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will)
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - A.J.P. Taylor
... Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced. ...
Does this mean that we will get the results announced one local authority area at a time?
Wonder what the declaration times were for the last Scottish local elections...
Are any bookies offering odds on a united Ireland by, say, 2025?
Just thinking of the back of a BBC news article. If Scotland does vote YES, surely there's a chance NI might either also secede (unlikely to be viable as independent state) or reunite with Ireland in a further referendum as unionists lose heart.
Or (for a crazy betting scenario) could NI even split from the UK and reunify just with an independent Scotland?
THE outcome of next year's independence referendum will be announced if one side has an unassailable lead even if all the counts have yet to be declared, according to a report.
Chief Counting Officer Designate, Mary Pitcaithly, said yesterday there would only be official declaration once all 32 local counts had been fully verified.
Ms Pitcaithly, convener of the Electoral Management Board for Scotland and chief executive of Falkirk Council, said it did not necessarily mean the result would be announced overnight after the polling day on September 18.
She said: "Getting the result right is more important than getting it quickly."
She added that estimates of when the result would be given following an overnight count after polling day on September 18 "cannot be given with any confidence".
Ms Pitcaithly examined the issues which could affect the timing of counts across Scotland in a paper.
It said: "There is theatre in any electoral event and the Scottish independence referendum will be a major event at a national and international level. While recognising the drama, democracy is best served by accurate, careful processes, not necessarily fast ones."
Ms Pitcaithly, concluded: "With the current processes and volumes of ballots, particularly postal votes, it is unlikely to be in the early hours as might have been the experience in previous elections. Turnout, volumes of postal votes and logistical factors dependent on the geography and climate must all come into the consideration."
Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced.
A final declaration of the overall result will only be made after all 32 local results have been checked in this way.
The paper says factors such as bad weather or a high turnout could cause extended counts and a later declaration. But it makes clear: "As counts are completed in each of the 32 areas and totals announced, there may be a point, when the remaining certified totals yet to be received from Counting Officers could not change the overall outcome, when the outcome will be known before the national declaration."
It stresses: "While there is a great desire to know the result, the voter needs to be assured the result that is declared is correct.
"The result needs to be accurate and based on secure and transparent processes. A result delivered quickly but about which there are questions of accuracy or integrity would undermine the entire referendum process."
Thanks. Sounds like a dog's breakfast. I wonder if there are any contingencies in place to deal with civil unrest...
At the risk of wandering into Neil territory I really wonder if the latest revisions are a double serving of good news as claimed by Osborne. They disclose that the economy collapsed by less than previously thought, that it has grown by more than previously thought, that productivity has been better than previously thought and that we exceeded the previous peak of GDP last year rather than this.
And yet the deficit remains horrendous. When we were growing exceptionally slowly out of recession that was understandable. What is the excuse now?
I fear that one consequence of these revisions is that the proportion of the deficit that is structural will have to be increased yet again meaning that yet more tax increases or spending cuts (or both) will be necessary to eliminate it. Growth is simply not going to get us out of this.
Growth of the right kind will get us out of it, it's just Osborne doesn't know how to help it along.
Do you?
i could certainly give it a better go than Osborne. are you saying you couldn't ?
Ashya Kings father says the doctors at Southampton were going to kill his child or leave him a vegetable, and that he told them he was taking ashya abroad days before he did so
Portsmouth City Council made the application, apparently.
PCC now asking Sky News live to urgently pass on their phone number to the Kings...
Are any bookies offering odds on a united Ireland by, say, 2025?
Just thinking of the back of a BBC news article. If Scotland does vote YES, surely there's a chance NI might either also secede (unlikely to be viable as independent state) or reunite with Ireland in a further referendum as unionists lose heart.
Or (for a crazy betting scenario) could NI even split from the UK and reunify just with an independent Scotland?
Viability as a nation state is no impediment to independence.
Are any bookies offering odds on a united Ireland by, say, 2025?
Just thinking of the back of a BBC news article. If Scotland does vote YES, surely there's a chance NI might either also secede (unlikely to be viable as independent state) or reunite with Ireland in a further referendum as unionists lose heart.
Or (for a crazy betting scenario) could NI even split from the UK and reunify just with an independent Scotland?
Ashya Kings father says the doctors at Southampton were going to kill his child or leave him a vegetable, and that he told them he was taking ashya abroad days before he did so
Portsmouth City Council made the application, apparently.
PCC now asking Sky News live to urgently pass on their phone number to the Kings...
Ashya Kings father says the doctors at Southampton were going to kill his child or leave him a vegetable, and that he told them he was taking ashya abroad days before he did so
Portsmouth City Council made the application, apparently.
PCC now asking Sky News live to urgently pass on their phone number to the Kings...
Ashya Kings father says the doctors at Southampton were going to kill his child or leave him a vegetable, and that he told them he was taking ashya abroad days before he did so
Portsmouth City Council made the application, apparently.
PCC now asking Sky News live to urgently pass on their phone number to the Kings...
What a tragic f***ing circus...
After Rotherham, further proof, if needed, that the public sector Nazis are out of control and accountable to no one.
Ashya Kings father says the doctors at Southampton were going to kill his child or leave him a vegetable, and that he told them he was taking ashya abroad days before he did so
Portsmouth City Council made the application, apparently.
PCC now asking Sky News live to urgently pass on their phone number to the Kings...
What a tragic f***ing circus...
Application for what - court order ?
The council have the court order and the dad isn't allowed to take him it seems
Ashya Kings father says the doctors at Southampton were going to kill his child or leave him a vegetable, and that he told them he was taking ashya abroad days before he did so
Portsmouth City Council made the application, apparently.
PCC now asking Sky News live to urgently pass on their phone number to the Kings...
What a tragic f***ing circus...
I'm a bit confused, what has Portsmouth City Council got to do with a Southampton hospital?
I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will)
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - A.J.P. Taylor
Back then there were cost and practicalities that reduced free movement.
Are any bookies offering odds on a united Ireland by, say, 2025?
Just thinking of the back of a BBC news article. If Scotland does vote YES, surely there's a chance NI might either also secede (unlikely to be viable as independent state) or reunite with Ireland in a further referendum as unionists lose heart.
Or (for a crazy betting scenario) could NI even split from the UK and reunify just with an independent Scotland?
Viability as a nation state is no impediment to independence.
It is in respect of convincing people to vote for it.
Ashya Kings father says the doctors at Southampton were going to kill his child or leave him a vegetable, and that he told them he was taking ashya abroad days before he did so
Portsmouth City Council made the application, apparently.
PCC now asking Sky News live to urgently pass on their phone number to the Kings...
What a tragic f***ing circus...
Application for what - court order ?
What on earth did the matter have to do with Portsmouth City Council at any rate ?
Ashya Kings father says the doctors at Southampton were going to kill his child or leave him a vegetable, and that he told them he was taking ashya abroad days before he did so
Portsmouth City Council made the application, apparently.
PCC now asking Sky News live to urgently pass on their phone number to the Kings...
What a tragic f***ing circus...
Application for what - court order ?
What on earth did the matter have to do with Portsmouth City Council at any rate ?
Given the level of abuse and intimidation that seems to be directed towards anyone who says they will vote NO in Scotland, I can understand why there aren't many NO posters up in people's houses. If I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't want a brick through my window.. Or worse. You'd have to be very brave. This is why we have a secret ballot, thank goodness.
Who/Where etc? There was that instance of a shop displaying posters that had a large bin set alight outside in an apparent arson attack. Oh wait, that was a Yes posters...
The idiots that chucked eggs at Murphy - were they 'No'ers?
Ha! HaHaHaHaHa!
Guffaw and indeed Chortle.
Seriously? Politician gets egged! wow, these Yessers must be real cnuts!
The only >real< acts of violence that i've heard about have been perpetrated by loony right wingers in the No camp. (kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach, lobbing a chair from a balcony, hitting a kid with a broken bottle etc) not that you see any of that in the press/bbc. But an MP GET EGGED!
Are any bookies offering odds on a united Ireland by, say, 2025?
Just thinking of the back of a BBC news article. If Scotland does vote YES, surely there's a chance NI might either also secede (unlikely to be viable as independent state) or reunite with Ireland in a further referendum as unionists lose heart.
Or (for a crazy betting scenario) could NI even split from the UK and reunify just with an independent Scotland?
Viability as a nation state is no impediment to independence.
It is in respect of convincing people to vote for it.
It should be, but the heart wins out normally.
How economically viable is Kosovo? How about a myriad African and South Pacific island nations?
Given the level of abuse and intimidation that seems to be directed towards anyone who says they will vote NO in Scotland, I can understand why there aren't many NO posters up in people's houses. If I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't want a brick through my window.. Or worse. You'd have to be very brave. This is why we have a secret ballot, thank goodness.
Who/Where etc? There was that instance of a shop displaying posters that had a large bin set alight outside in an apparent arson attack. Oh wait, that was a Yes posters...
The idiots that chucked eggs at Murphy - were they 'No'ers?
Ha! HaHaHaHaHa!
Guffaw and indeed Chortle.
Seriously? Politician gets egged! wow, these Yessers must be real cnuts!
The only >real< acts of violence that i've heard about have been perpetrated by loony right wingers in the No camp. (kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach, lobbing a chair from a balcony, hitting a kid with a broken bottle etc) not that you see any of that in the press/bbc. But an MP GET EGGED!
... Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced. ...
Does this mean that we will get the results announced one local authority area at a time?
Wonder what the declaration times were for the last Scottish local elections...
Local elections STV, so not good comparator, but looks like we should have a good handle on the result by around 2-3am when we can expect to know the vote totals from Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen and much of Fife and the Central Belt going by the expected 2010 declaration times.
I know it's a bitter contest, but we can't deny it's exciting, and even historic. Supporters for either side are vehement, but there's already bad blood, and whichever way it goes I suspect long-term resentment will ensue.
Personally, I think Rosberg will take the title. Certainly hope so.
I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will)
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - A.J.P. Taylor
Back then there were cost and practicalities that reduced free movement.
Note “could". A long time ago time a judge remarked that justice, like the Ritz Hotel, is open to all. Travel’s similar.
I reckon if this was a London Independence referendum there'd be alot more polls about !
Can us softies in the South East also get in with London as well? ta muchly
No - Antifrank has made it very clear that London should be for Londoners only. Of course anyone can become a Londoner but you do have to either live or work in London.
The M25 will be the border.
+ heathrow. But all flights going west.
Heathrow is inside the M25.
Most flights will take off and land heading west because of the prevailing wind direction.
I know it's a bitter contest, but we can't deny it's exciting, and even historic. Supporters for either side are vehement, but there's already bad blood, and whichever way it goes I suspect long-term resentment will ensue.
Personally, I think Rosberg will take the title. Certainly hope so.
Are any bookies offering odds on a united Ireland by, say, 2025?
Just thinking of the back of a BBC news article. If Scotland does vote YES, surely there's a chance NI might either also secede (unlikely to be viable as independent state) or reunite with Ireland in a further referendum as unionists lose heart.
Or (for a crazy betting scenario) could NI even split from the UK and reunify just with an independent Scotland?
Viability as a nation state is no impediment to independence.
It is in respect of convincing people to vote for it.
It should be, but the heart wins out normally.
How economically viable is Kosovo? How about a myriad African and South Pacific island nations?
The heart of most nationalists is union with Ireland. The heart of most unionists is union with the UK. Independence as a separate nation state of "ulster" is very much a minority taste in the unionist community.
Given the history, the current pretty even 60-40 unionist/Irish nationalist split it'd be one hell of a stretch to come up with a viable solution for an independent state that a majority could agree on.
How would they police it, share power, legislate? How would they defend it and maintain order?
I can't see any viable solution to come anywhere near winning a referendum on the issue.
Are any bookies offering odds on a united Ireland by, say, 2025?
Just thinking of the back of a BBC news article. If Scotland does vote YES, surely there's a chance NI might either also secede (unlikely to be viable as independent state) or reunite with Ireland in a further referendum as unionists lose heart.
Or (for a crazy betting scenario) could NI even split from the UK and reunify just with an independent Scotland?
Viability as a nation state is no impediment to independence.
It is in respect of convincing people to vote for it.
It should be, but the heart wins out normally.
How economically viable is Kosovo? How about a myriad African and South Pacific island nations?
The heart of most nationalists is union with Ireland. The heart of most unionists is union with the UK. Independence as a separate nation state of "ulster" is very much a minority taste in the unionist community.
Given the history, the current pretty even 60-40 unionist/Irish nationalist split it'd be one hell of a stretch to come up with a viable solution for an independent state that a majority could agree on.
How would they police it, share power, legislate? How would they defend it and maintain order?
I can't see any viable solution to come anywhere near winning a referendum on the issue.
Pork barrel politics like they always do, just keep sending the money.
I fail to see why the "London based media" should be commissioning polls. The media are private organisations that seek to make a profit and while there is intense interest north of the border I'm not sure by any means that the national media can make a profit or even recoup costs by doing so.
On the other hand there's a large number of Scottish-based media publications. Surely these are the ones that should be commissioning surveys? Surely their readership will be interested? If Scotland becomes independent who is going to commission their new national surveys afterwards?
Why can't the Scottish media survey the Scottish public?
They have hardly any circulation due to being crap and supporting NO, hence they have no money for polls or real journalists, print crap and go round the loop again. They are circling the drain.
Are you saying there isn't a market for a yes-centred Edinburgh-based media that can afford to pay for surveys?
I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will)
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - A.J.P. Taylor
Back then there were cost and practicalities that reduced free movement.
There were very large movements of people in the 19th century.
The big difference is that there was more emigration from the UK than immigration. Emigration can be a problem for a country that is struggling, but for a successful country it acts as a benefit.
If the UK regained its emigrating spirit, net migration would come down to zero, and the country would rediscover its historical love of open borders.
I fail to see why the "London based media" should be commissioning polls. The media are private organisations that seek to make a profit and while there is intense interest north of the border I'm not sure by any means that the national media can make a profit or even recoup costs by doing so.
On the other hand there's a large number of Scottish-based media publications. Surely these are the ones that should be commissioning surveys? Surely their readership will be interested? If Scotland becomes independent who is going to commission their new national surveys afterwards?
Why can't the Scottish media survey the Scottish public?
They have hardly any circulation due to being crap and supporting NO, hence they have no money for polls or real journalists, print crap and go round the loop again. They are circling the drain.
Are you saying there isn't a market for a yes-centred Edinburgh-based media that can afford to pay for surveys?
That's true. Perhaps YES should (unofficially) approach the Weirs to fund and commission a Scottish poll?
If it's true, and would help generate further momentum for them, that's probably the most effective way to spend any money right now.
Failing that, Connery, Cox or Gerald Butler might want to reach into their pockets.
I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will)
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - A.J.P. Taylor
Back then there were cost and practicalities that reduced free movement.
There were very large movements of people in the 19th century.
The big difference is that there was more emigration from the UK than immigration. Emigration can be a problem for a country that is struggling, but for a successful country it acts as a benefit.
If the UK regained its emigrating spirit, net migration would come down to zero, and the country would rediscover its historical love of open borders.
I doubt it. If a million Asians come in and half a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about net immigration of a half a million, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.
If a million Asians come in and a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about ethnic cleansing and population replacement of the white English, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.
Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.
The ones who spout this stuff online may or may not be typical of UKIP generally, but they're certainly noisy and pretty typical of the online UKIPper. Civilised UKIPpers like iSam are far less in evidence.
So when all we have by way of counterpoint to this stuff is Farage, Godfrey Bloom, Neil Hamilton, and that gay floods UKIP guy, well, what is one to think?
I'll tell you one thing... the guys which have staked hundreds of thousands on a NO for a quick return on their money must be a little more nervous over the last few weeks...
That'll be one it'll be hard to tell the missus...
Depends. They might be the sort of people for whom it would make a damn fine dinner party anecdote, without missing the money one iota, or they might be using the bookmakers to hedge some contingent trades they have made elsewhere - say on the assumption that Sterling would fall sharply following a YES vote.
More likely to be government/ nasty Tory funded slush money to manipulate the market or they are deranged and so will not care in either event.
You're straying more than a bit into tinfoil hat territory Malc....
nothing to beat a good conspiracy theory Patrick
Suggesting that the Tories are deliberately funding someone to make a 400,000 quid NO bet in order to manipulate the betting market is beneath you Malcolm and frankly risible.
At the risk of wandering into Neil territory I really wonder if the latest revisions are a double serving of good news as claimed by Osborne. They disclose that the economy collapsed by less than previously thought, that it has grown by more than previously thought, that productivity has been better than previously thought and that we exceeded the previous peak of GDP last year rather than this.
And yet the deficit remains horrendous. When we were growing exceptionally slowly out of recession that was understandable. What is the excuse now?
I fear that one consequence of these revisions is that the proportion of the deficit that is structural will have to be increased yet again meaning that yet more tax increases or spending cuts (or both) will be necessary to eliminate it. Growth is simply not going to get us out of this.
Growth of the right kind will get us out of it, it's just Osborne doesn't know how to help it along.
Do you?
i could certainly give it a better go than Osborne. are you saying you couldn't ?
Speculation is easy. We are still left with the continuing deficts run by Brown even when we had growth which we are told was better than thought. This is because of spending - spending which the economy (even with dockside hookers battering away) could not find the revenue from to sustain. This high spending is the measure of the structural deficit. The overall defict has only come down slower than planned because of the US and Euro recession and the govt let the cyclical regulators work. But its coming down because of cuts in spending. The govt have been carful not to cripple the economy and despite accustions on one side and bravado on the other the cuts have been loaded to the back of the parliament.
The cuts are not just for christmas though - we will need a decade of restraint - indeed the Brown years show we need perpetual restraint. We certainly will not get that from Labour.
I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will)
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - A.J.P. Taylor
Back then there were cost and practicalities that reduced free movement.
There were very large movements of people in the 19th century.
The big difference is that there was more emigration from the UK than immigration. Emigration can be a problem for a country that is struggling, but for a successful country it acts as a benefit.
If the UK regained its emigrating spirit, net migration would come down to zero, and the country would rediscover its historical love of open borders.
I doubt it. If a million Asians come in and half a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about net immigration of a half a million, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.
If a million Asians come in and a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about ethnic cleansing and population replacement of the white English, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.
Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.
The ones who spout this stuff online may or may not be typical of UKIP generally, but they're certainly noisy and pretty typical of the online UKIPper. Civilised UKIPpers like iSam are far less in evidence.
So when all we have by way of counterpoint to this stuff is Farage, Godfrey Bloom, Neil Hamilton, and that gay floods UKIP guy, well, what is one to think?
I really don't understand why you keep posting this stuff, James. It is making you look ludicrous.
I'll tell you one thing... the guys which have staked hundreds of thousands on a NO for a quick return on their money must be a little more nervous over the last few weeks...
That'll be one it'll be hard to tell the missus...
Depends. They might be the sort of people for whom it would make a damn fine dinner party anecdote, without missing the money one iota, or they might be using the bookmakers to hedge some contingent trades they have made elsewhere - say on the assumption that Sterling would fall sharply following a YES vote.
More likely to be government/ nasty Tory funded slush money to manipulate the market or they are deranged and so will not care in either event.
You're straying more than a bit into tinfoil hat territory Malc....
nothing to beat a good conspiracy theory Patrick
Suggesting that the Tories are deliberately funding someone to make a 400,000 quid NO bet in order to manipulate the betting market is beneath you Malcolm and frankly risible.
Patrick , only if you take it seriously
I will henceforth apply this caveat to all your postings Malc. Kicking myself for not doing so alot earlier.
I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will)
The big difference is that there was more emigration from the UK than immigration. Emigration can be a problem for a country that is struggling, but for a successful country it acts as a benefit.
If the UK regained its emigrating spirit, net migration would come down to zero, and the country would rediscover its historical love of open borders.
I doubt it. If a million Asians come in and half a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about net immigration of a half a million, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.
If a million Asians come in and a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about ethnic cleansing and population replacement of the white English, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.
Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.
The ones who spout this stuff online may or may not be typical of UKIP generally, but they're certainly noisy and pretty typical of the online UKIPper. Civilised UKIPpers like iSam are far less in evidence.
So when all we have by way of counterpoint to this stuff is Farage, Godfrey Bloom, Neil Hamilton, and that gay floods UKIP guy, well, what is one to think?
I really don't understand why you keep posting this stuff, James. It is making you look ludicrous.
Until UKIP effectively distances itself from this, it will remain a loony fringe. The trouble is, if the leadership distances itself it's going to enrage rather a lot of the members.
For example:
"One thing is enough and will deal with the lot. Repatriation." - that got 77 recommends
"As somebody who's hard right, I'd say plane, boat, train or chimney."
"we've worked out what they mean by 'Modern Britain', it's a place with no place for the British..."
"Round them up and ship them out....."
"Expel them to islamic countries - the demos clearly doesn't want them here"
"64% of Bradford's Pakistani mothers are biologically related to the father of their child" (142 recommends)
"A LibLabCON government is a treasonous government as we have seen over the past 40 years."
I'm sorry but they really are uniquely vicious loonies - much, much worse than what you read at the Gruaniad.
I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will)
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - A.J.P. Taylor
Back then there were cost and practicalities that reduced free movement.
There were very large movements of people in the 19th century.
The big difference is that there was more emigration from the UK than immigration. Emigration can be a problem for a country that is struggling, but for a successful country it acts as a benefit.
If the UK regained its emigrating spirit, net migration would come down to zero, and the country would rediscover its historical love of open borders.
I doubt it. If a million Asians come in and half a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about net immigration of a half a million, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.
If a million Asians come in and a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about ethnic cleansing and population replacement of the white English, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.
Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.
The ones who spout this stuff online may or may not be typical of UKIP generally, but they're certainly noisy and pretty typical of the online UKIPper. Civilised UKIPpers like iSam are far less in evidence.
So when all we have by way of counterpoint to this stuff is Farage, Godfrey Bloom, Neil Hamilton, and that gay floods UKIP guy, well, what is one to think?
''Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.''
Complete misrepresentation of UKIP position by desperate tory. UKIP favours a points system, which will allow Doctors and Engineers from the Asian sub continent to come here, but will bar white criminals from Germany or Poland.
I fail to see why the "London based media" should be commissioning polls. The media are private organisations that seek to make a profit and while there is intense interest north of the border I'm not sure by any means that the national media can make a profit or even recoup costs by doing so.
On the other hand there's a large number of Scottish-based media publications. Surely these are the ones that should be commissioning surveys? Surely their readership will be interested? If Scotland becomes independent who is going to commission their new national surveys afterwards?
Why can't the Scottish media survey the Scottish public?
They have hardly any circulation due to being crap and supporting NO, hence they have no money for polls or real journalists, print crap and go round the loop again. They are circling the drain.
Are you saying there isn't a market for a yes-centred Edinburgh-based media that can afford to pay for surveys?
No I am saying there is not any YES centred media in Scotland, ( Sunday Herald recently came out as YES ) and their drops in circulation in general mean they are all working on shoestrings as they are circling the drain and struggling to remain open in any shape. This may not be entirely down to supporting NO openly but it has helped their downward spiral enormously.
I also don't think we should have uncontrolled free movement from the whole world (and to be fair we never have and probably never will)
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - A.J.P. Taylor
Back then there were cost and practicalities that reduced free movement.
There were very large movements of people in the 19th century.
The big difference is that there was more emigration from the UK than immigration. Emigration can be a problem for a country that is struggling, but for a successful country it acts as a benefit.
If the UK regained its emigrating spirit, net migration would come down to zero, and the country would rediscover its historical love of open borders.
I doubt it. If a million Asians come in and half a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about net immigration of a half a million, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.
If a million Asians come in and a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about ethnic cleansing and population replacement of the white English, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.
Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.
The ones who spout this stuff online may or may not be typical of UKIP generally, but they're certainly noisy and pretty typical of the online UKIPper. Civilised UKIPpers like iSam are far less in evidence.
So when all we have by way of counterpoint to this stuff is Farage, Godfrey Bloom, Neil Hamilton, and that gay floods UKIP guy, well, what is one to think?
How will UKIP react to the numbers of refugees from North o' the border, in the event of a 'Yes' vote?
... Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced. ...
Does this mean that we will get the results announced one local authority area at a time?
Wonder what the declaration times were for the last Scottish local elections...
Local elections STV, so not good comparator, but looks like we should have a good handle on the result by around 2-3am when we can expect to know the vote totals from Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen and much of Fife and the Central Belt going by the expected 2010 declaration times.
Previously stated I believe that it will not be done piecemeal
... Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced. ...
Does this mean that we will get the results announced one local authority area at a time?
Wonder what the declaration times were for the last Scottish local elections...
Local elections STV, so not good comparator, but looks like we should have a good handle on the result by around 2-3am when we can expect to know the vote totals from Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen and much of Fife and the Central Belt going by the expected 2010 declaration times.
Previously stated I believe that it will not be done piecemeal
The directions from the CCO indicates that results will come out authority by authority.
Matthew Goodwin (@GoodwinMJ) 03/09/2014 15:17 How Clacton could be a crucial watershed in Ukip's history | Some thoughts @TheStaggers@NewStatesman bit.ly/1rMxN0j
Seems a bit weird that it's not clear whether the results will come out one area at a time or all at once (officially, I'm sure there'll be many a rumour).
Comments
A bigger question might be whether there will in fact be an exit poll and how much use it will be given the level of postal voting.
Dragon Age3
Far Cry 4
Alien Isolation
+ much more...
Its not just labour. In the debate on this after the Cameron statement Grieve was also arguing it is essentially impossible.
*One incident of egging during the whole campaign is remarkable restrained dontchathink?
Wtf?
Announcement expected in the morning following the vote, exact timing uncertain.
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/166556/Scottish-Independence-Referendum-media-handbook.pdf
Slower to turn round than a 500,000 tonne tanker.
THE outcome of next year's independence referendum will be announced if one side has an unassailable lead even if all the counts have yet to be declared, according to a report.
Chief Counting Officer Designate, Mary Pitcaithly, said yesterday there would only be official declaration once all 32 local counts had been fully verified.
Ms Pitcaithly, convener of the Electoral Management Board for Scotland and chief executive of Falkirk Council, said it did not necessarily mean the result would be announced overnight after the polling day on September 18.
She said: "Getting the result right is more important than getting it quickly."
She added that estimates of when the result would be given following an overnight count after polling day on September 18 "cannot be given with any confidence".
Ms Pitcaithly examined the issues which could affect the timing of counts across Scotland in a paper.
It said: "There is theatre in any electoral event and the Scottish independence referendum will be a major event at a national and international level. While recognising the drama, democracy is best served by accurate, careful processes, not necessarily fast ones."
Ms Pitcaithly, concluded: "With the current processes and volumes of ballots, particularly postal votes, it is unlikely to be in the early hours as might have been the experience in previous elections. Turnout, volumes of postal votes and logistical factors dependent on the geography and climate must all come into the consideration."
Counting of votes on the day will begin in the traditional way once polls close at 10pm, with counts held in all 32 local authority areas. Local totals will be verified by the Chief Counting Officer before being announced.
A final declaration of the overall result will only be made after all 32 local results have been checked in this way.
The paper says factors such as bad weather or a high turnout could cause extended counts and a later declaration. But it makes clear: "As counts are completed in each of the 32 areas and totals announced, there may be a point, when the remaining certified totals yet to be received from Counting Officers could not change the overall outcome, when the outcome will be known before the national declaration."
It stresses: "While there is a great desire to know the result, the voter needs to be assured the result that is declared is correct.
"The result needs to be accurate and based on secure and transparent processes. A result delivered quickly but about which there are questions of accuracy or integrity would undermine the entire referendum process."
In Argyll and Bute, votes are normally counted the day after an election because ballot boxes need to be brought in from islands in the region, but plans are in place to tally the votes overnight.
And yet the deficit remains horrendous. When we were growing exceptionally slowly out of recession that was understandable. What is the excuse now?
I fear that one consequence of these revisions is that the proportion of the deficit that is structural will have to be increased yet again meaning that yet more tax increases or spending cuts (or both) will be necessary to eliminate it. Growth is simply not going to get us out of this.
Sometimes dialogue on PB brings more agreement than one expects. Back to my meetings...
If he doesn't make an appearance soon I'll have to roll out some sub-samples. That always works.
Just thinking of the back of a BBC news article. If Scotland does vote YES, surely there's a chance NI might either also secede (unlikely to be viable as independent state) or reunite with Ireland in a further referendum as unionists lose heart.
Or (for a crazy betting scenario) could NI even split from the UK and reunify just with an independent Scotland?
Wonder what the declaration times were for the last Scottish local elections...
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/northern-irish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=600657
But if you actually burned your money you would at least benefit from the warmth that would provide.
PCC now asking Sky News live to urgently pass on their phone number to the Kings...
What a tragic f***ing circus...
"I've seen people get egged. They get hit, they go down and they stay down"
Back then there were cost and practicalities that reduced free movement.
suspicion is that they might have been remnants from the Orange Order parade in the vicinity earlier in the day
How economically viable is Kosovo? How about a myriad African and South Pacific island nations?
I know it's a bitter contest, but we can't deny it's exciting, and even historic. Supporters for either side are vehement, but there's already bad blood, and whichever way it goes I suspect long-term resentment will ensue.
Personally, I think Rosberg will take the title. Certainly hope so.
Travel’s similar.
Most flights will take off and land heading west because of the prevailing wind direction.
Given the history, the current pretty even 60-40 unionist/Irish nationalist split it'd be one hell of a stretch to come up with a viable solution for an independent state that a majority could agree on.
How would they police it, share power, legislate? How would they defend it and maintain order?
I can't see any viable solution to come anywhere near winning a referendum on the issue.
I also tipped Rosberg pre-season at 16/1 and 24/1 (Ladbrokes and Betfair).
Har Har...
That is expected to take several weeks but afterwards he would be able to travel to Prague for proton therapy.
This is, apparently, according to Dr Gary Nicolin, consultant paediatric oncologist at Southampton Hospital.
Do I detect a momumental FU and total failure of communication?
The big difference is that there was more emigration from the UK than immigration. Emigration can be a problem for a country that is struggling, but for a successful country it acts as a benefit.
If the UK regained its emigrating spirit, net migration would come down to zero, and the country would rediscover its historical love of open borders.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/drivers-back-rosberg-over-hamilton-clash/
If it's true, and would help generate further momentum for them, that's probably the most effective way to spend any money right now.
Failing that, Connery, Cox or Gerald Butler might want to reach into their pockets.
If a million Asians come in and a mllion indigenes leave, UKIP supporters wail about ethnic cleansing and population replacement of the white English, and want to oppress / harass / judicially kill the Asians.
Basically, to rather a lot of UKIPpers, there is no immigration outcome which cannot be improved by oppression or liquidation of Asians.
The ones who spout this stuff online may or may not be typical of UKIP generally, but they're certainly noisy and pretty typical of the online UKIPper. Civilised UKIPpers like iSam are far less in evidence.
So when all we have by way of counterpoint to this stuff is Farage, Godfrey Bloom, Neil Hamilton, and that gay floods UKIP guy, well, what is one to think?
http://tinyurl.com/phf3w86
We are still left with the continuing deficts run by Brown even when we had growth which we are told was better than thought. This is because of spending - spending which the economy (even with dockside hookers battering away) could not find the revenue from to sustain.
This high spending is the measure of the structural deficit. The overall defict has only come down slower than planned because of the US and Euro recession and the govt let the cyclical regulators work. But its coming down because of cuts in spending. The govt have been carful not to cripple the economy and despite accustions on one side and bravado on the other the cuts have been loaded to the back of the parliament.
The cuts are not just for christmas though - we will need a decade of restraint - indeed the Brown years show we need perpetual restraint. We certainly will not get that from Labour.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100284881/as-the-right-commits-suicide-the-future-may-belong-to-the-left-after-all/#disqus_thread
Until UKIP effectively distances itself from this, it will remain a loony fringe. The trouble is, if the leadership distances itself it's going to enrage rather a lot of the members.
For example:
"One thing is enough and will deal with the lot. Repatriation." - that got 77 recommends
"As somebody who's hard right, I'd say plane, boat, train or chimney."
"we've worked out what they mean by 'Modern Britain', it's a place with no place for the British..."
"Round them up and ship them out....."
"Expel them to islamic countries - the demos clearly doesn't want them here"
"64% of Bradford's Pakistani mothers are biologically related to the father of their child" (142 recommends)
"A LibLabCON government is a treasonous government as we have seen over the past 40 years."
I'm sorry but they really are uniquely vicious loonies - much, much worse than what you read at the Gruaniad.
Complete misrepresentation of UKIP position by desperate tory. UKIP favours a points system, which will allow Doctors and Engineers from the Asian sub continent to come here, but will bar white criminals from Germany or Poland.
03/09/2014 15:17
How Clacton could be a crucial watershed in Ukip's history | Some thoughts @TheStaggers @NewStatesman bit.ly/1rMxN0j