@Socrates It shows how callous some right wing posters are that they only want to talk about abuse cases where they think they can get political traction. Child abuse seems to have been covered up in several other cases, covering all walks of life and regions. A laser like focus on only those ones that fit our political agendas without viewing them as a whole, does no party or commentator any credit. Yes Rotheram is a scandal, and should be investigated, but it is not a one party or group problem as all the other cases have shown. There is evidence, surprisingly enough, that even Mr.s T and her party whips could turn a blind eye when it suited them, and in the case of the whips, possibly used knowledge of misdeeds to ensure party discipline.
So there was and I banged on about that too, despite no racial angle of which I am supposedly obsessed
@JosiasJessopp: "We have to ask how we can teach a generation or two in these areas that these actions are not acceptable."
One thing we can do is not use the words "not acceptable". Far too weak. We're not talking about using fish knives to eat steak, for God's sake.
These actions are WRONG. They are evil. They are crimes. And the people who do this are evil and vile. We need to use harsh words to describe evil acts and the people who commit them so that they are shocked into being faced with what they really are and so that we start reimposing some taboos which may (only may, I realise) help in imposing some limits on people's behaviour.
''Yes Rotheram is a scandal, and should be investigated, but it is not a one party or group problem as all the other cases have shown.''
The smarter labour posters and thinkers realise that labour, far more than any other party, do have a problem with this - and it will need to change a central plank of its agenda, namely political correctness, to prosper.
But hey, carry with your 'not a party issue'...... 'lessons will be learned' .......delusions if you wish
An employee of RBS told me she thought the Scottish Banks would carry on printing Sterling notes because they recently showcased their new plastic designs. She seemed genuinely surprised when I suggested voters down South would demand of their politicians that their license to do so be revoked.
For all the discussion on currency, a lot of people in Scotland think there is already 'Scottish money' because of what the banknotes have printed on them.
Scottish nationalism for many people is xenophobic against the English, with "Tories" and "Westminster" functioning as euphemisms. It's about having a big chip on the shoulder. The 'logic' goes as follows: London is the capital of Britain, therefore Scotland is 'ruled' not just from England but by England.
Did you tell her that RBS and Lloyds will rush their registration to the rUK (if it's OK with the EU in the case of Lloyds!) in the event of Scottish independence? So hoiking the licence wouldn't be a matter of England telling Scotland what to do.
An iScotland government or banks active in Scotland could of course print some kind of paper backed by the GBPs that are already held in Scotland. But that's a point for the better informed among us. Ditto with the points that monetary union without fiscal union means there'd be no Scottish control over the Scottish economy, and a Scottish currency would be unlikely to work given that Salmond has threatened to renege on debts. From the YES supporters' point of view, those points can only be made by people who've been duped by scaremongerers into 'doing Scotland down'. Our 'belief' isn't strong enough.
Against stupidity, even the gods battle in vain.
But oh no, "it's Scotland's pound too" and so on.
Shouty, naive, smily, prickly xenophobia against cautious common sense. Who will win?
Survation was at 53%-47% before the first debate, suggesting we might be at 57%-43%, but then there is a secondary effect, surely, from the reporting of the second debate and from this poll. NO might get less than 57%.
The NO campaign should push the £85000 question hard. "Let's keep our bank accounts protected".
Salmond has just repeated for the umpteenth time publicly that the 85K EU rule is guaranteed to remain in an independent Scotland. You got any more stupid questions.
How is he going to implement it without a lender of last resort? Is the Scottish Government (trans. Scottish Tax Payer) going to underwrite it?
I am sure we are too poor and too stupid to be able to do that, not as if we are like any other country in the world we need someone to do it for us.
If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.
So it can only be for the money.
Stupid idea by coalition to have elected PCCs dont you think?
A catastrophic policy.
All because of 1 rotten (ex)-Labour apple?
No, because of a total lack of mandate for the 40-odd PCCs in the original elections, the derisory turnout in the recent by-election in the West Midlands, the embarrassing PCC here in Kent, Shaun Wright, the bloke suspended in Bedfordshire.
A typically useless and wasteful Tory idea.
Does Lucy Powell MP have a mandate on just an 18.2% turnout?
@Socrates It shows how callous some right wing posters are that they only want to talk about abuse cases where they think they can get political traction. Child abuse seems to have been covered up in several other cases, covering all walks of life and regions. A laser like focus on only those ones that fit our political agendas without viewing them as a whole, does no party or commentator any credit. Yes Rotheram is a scandal, and should be investigated, but it is not a one party or group problem as all the other cases have shown. There is evidence, surprisingly enough, that even Mr.s T and her party whips could turn a blind eye when it suited them, and in the case of the whips, possibly used knowledge of misdeeds to ensure party discipline.
Great post
Cant think it will stop the right wingers ranting for at least another week though.
Spot on.
They certainly seem oddly obsessed by one particular aspect of this complex case.
But I'm sure they'd be equally excited if it was, say, high profile white figures with links to, ooh, a rightwing establishment.
But no recent cases of that nature spring to mind. At all.
Bit embarassing for UKIP. They already have a candidate Roger Lord for Clacton who was only selected 3 weeks ago and has challenged Carswell to take part in a contest.
Haven't you heard? Lord is the general election candidate, not the by election candidate, in no way has the centre overridden the local association, there's no way the people's party would act in that way.
For those wondering up thread, why Asian/Muslim gangs targeted white girls, YA-B has a rather insightful article on the subject. – last two paragraphs most apt and very hard hitting.
@isam I have never accused you of being racist, and I am not pointing at any poster left or right. Like you, I am appalled when these cases are used as a stick to beat our opponents with, while we ignore the overarching reasons why they happen.
Academic study: bigger firms could leave iScotland if currency deal fails
MAJOR Scottish companies will quit the country if post-Yes talks even start to suggest a currency union will not materialise, according to an independent survey.
Several "larger PLCs" would move their headquarters south of the Border as soon as they felt the "direction of travel" in separation negotiations would hurt the pound or put up barriers to trading, the Edinburgh University study found.
Oops! Edinburgh......
Has nobody on this site noticed that Mr Cameron was berated at the infamous illegal-when-planned dinner in Glasgow, and by the CBI no less, for his chaos over Brexit? (Or EWNIexit as the case may be.)
Yes, Dave was in receipt of two rather unhelpful interventions yesterday - tho I believe some suggested that while no one would believe the CBI on the UK, magically they would on the EU. Odd that.....
Well, you might want to consider the closeness of the links between the CBI's members and the London and Edinburgh governments respectively, and consider whose choke collar is having the lead yanked.
I see that US companies are already moving to Dublin, BTW. A Scotland in the EU and EWNI out of it could be very interesting.
How long will it take Scotland to become an EU member exactly?
Keep praying and sticking the pins in Saddo , it will still be far too quick for sad losers like you
Funny how PB Tories are still obsessed by the small town in Sheffield story as Tory MPs contemplating defection to UKIP appears to be somewhat a more serious problem for Dave
You're surprised the systematic exploitation of 1400 kids and an institutional cover-up is talked about more than a political defection?
This case has really shown how callous some left-wing posters are.
and how obsessed with racial hatred some right wing posters are?
That's a pathetic slur.
It's like arguing that criticism of the Catholic Church over child abuse is motivated by anti-Catholic bigotry.
Academic study: bigger firms could leave iScotland if currency deal fails
MAJOR Scottish companies will quit the country if post-Yes talks even start to suggest a currency union will not materialise, according to an independent survey.
Several "larger PLCs" would move their headquarters south of the Border as soon as they felt the "direction of travel" in separation negotiations would hurt the pound or put up barriers to trading, the Edinburgh University study found.
Oops! Edinburgh......
Has nobody on this site noticed that Mr Cameron was berated at the infamous illegal-when-planned dinner in Glasgow, and by the CBI no less, for his chaos over Brexit? (Or EWNIexit as the case may be.)
Yes, Dave was in receipt of two rather unhelpful interventions yesterday - tho I believe some suggested that while no one would believe the CBI on the UK, magically they would on the EU. Odd that.....
Well, you might want to consider the closeness of the links between the CBI's members and the London and Edinburgh governments respectively, and consider whose choke collar is having the lead yanked.
I see that US companies are already moving to Dublin, BTW. A Scotland in the EU and EWNI out of it could be very interesting.
How long will it take Scotland to become an EU member exactly?
Keep praying and sticking the pins in Saddo , it will still be far too quick for sad losers like you
Obvious troll, trolls obviously. Tick Toc, soon be over.
I was up well past my bedtime last night (early morning really) and I listened briefly to two very posh people discussing Rotherham on the Sky newspaper review.
One was Fraser Nelson and one was Nesrine Malik (I assumed from the Guardian) and they managed to talk about it as a sort of generalised failure of the system. Regrettable, but these things can happen. No mention of the perpetrators' or the victims' race.
All very civilised but I felt like I was inhabiting a parallel universe. Up with the carpet and under goes the dust already.
If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.
So it can only be for the money.
Stupid idea by coalition to have elected PCCs dont you think?
All the crimes currently being investigated occurred under the PCC's predecessor system, which was obviously not fit for purpose.
Would you prefer to go back to police authorities?
In England and Wales, a police authority was a single purpose authority with representatives nominated by the local authority(ies), independent members, and magistrates. Typically, a police authority was made up of seventeen members - nine elected members (who are drawn from the local authority or authorities for the force area, and would be reflective of the political makeup of those authorities). The remaining eight members were called independent members, and were appointed from the local community for fixed terms of four years by the police authority itself. At least three of the police authority's independent members were magistrates. There was no difference in power or responsibility between the different types of member - there are examples of elected, independent and magistrate members chairing police authorities throughout England and Wales.
So they (outside the Met area in England) dominated by political appointees, and their work was essentially invisible to the public.
Wheras PCCs candidates are not generally political appointees and are elected by 10% of the electorate and then cannot be forced to resign.
No matter how much PB Tories rant that they should
My vote at the PCC election went to a Lib Dem who had been involved in NSLEC. He was, in my view, the best candidate. He didn't win, but at least I had a choice, and at least I know the name of my PCC. I never knew the names of any of the anonymous members of the police authority that he replaced.
Mr. G, Salmond cannot (unless he's wealthier than I imagined) guarantee deposits up to 85,000 (is that pounds, or euros?).
A central bank can.
The only ways the deposit guarantee can remain is: 1) currency union (pound or euro) 2) a Scottish currency
Why sterlingisation even remains on the table perplexes me. Maybe it's clever bluffing, and if Yes wins it'll be swept away for sound economic reasons, having served its purpose convincing people to vote for independence.
Why could Scotland not have a central bank
If Scotland uses the pound but is not in a monetary union with rUK then the Bank of England will not stand behind a foreign country's bank (RBS?) in a crisis; nor print money to support a foreign country's government economic policy; nor stand behind deposit guarantees if the foreign country bank's backup fund runs out.
Similarly interest rates will be set by the Bank of England to suit rUK and Scotland will have to accept them (plus a bit for extra risk). At present the Monetary Policy Committee takes account of the Scottish economy in its decisions alongside other parts of the UK.
If Scotland has its own currency then a 'Bank of Scotland' can adopt all the above functions but it needs its own currency to do so.
@JosiasJessopp: "We have to ask how we can teach a generation or two in these areas that these actions are not acceptable."
One thing we can do is not use the words "not acceptable". Far too weak. We're not talking about using fish knives to eat steak, for God's sake.
These actions are WRONG. They are evil. They are crimes. And the people who do this are evil and vile. We need to use harsh words to describe evil acts and the people who commit them so that they are shocked into being faced with what they really are and so that we start reimposing some taboos which may (only may, I realise) help in imposing some limits on people's behaviour.
I'm sure the perpetrators knew very well that what they were doing was evil.
We need raw honesty about the cultural change required in relation to vulnerable victims. We have allowed a series of myths and stereotypes about how “real” victims behave to creep into our institutions and our decision-making. The assumption that real victims would contact the authorities, be prepared to support necessary intervention and never return to the perpetrator are only recently being challenged.
All very good. But what we need is raw honesty about the cultural change required in relation to the perpetrators. We have pretended that the cultural/religious background and views about women of the perpetrators are irrelevant to their crimes and their choice of victims and their ability to do these crimes safe in the knowledge that those who know about them will not speak up.
When people like him start talking in these terms then I'll start believing in their raw honesty.
My own hope is that a full enquiry not only eviscerates and brings profound change to rotten boroughs and PC police cowardice on such abuse but also wreaks similar damage to political protection rackets. I'm not sure if there is today a law obliging those in public positions not to 'knowingly abandon their duties' or some appropriate legal wording.
Rent seeking and abuse of power at the top of public life is rank. I'll be delighted to see ALOT of local politicians, police, social workers, national politicians, whips, etc get jail sentences. Justice must not only be done but be seen to be done.
A deacon convicted of sexually abusing 10 boys at a Greater Manchester school has been jailed for nine years.
The Rev Alan Morris, 64, was found guilty of 19 sex assaults carried out when he taught at St Ambrose RC College in Hale Barns, Altrincham.
When the offences took place, between 1972 and 1991, the school was run by Roman Catholic religious order the Christian Brothers
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-28855495
Appalling.
I imagine, though, that he didn't douse his victims in petrol, gang-rape them, or threaten them with extreme violence. Nor were there 1400 victims. Nor was the local council told repeatedly about what was going on.
Don't you think there is a bit of a difference of scale, scope, and political/bureaucratic responsibility?
@isam I have never accused you of being racist, and I am not pointing at any poster left or right. Like you, I am appalled when these cases are used as a stick to beat our opponents with, while we ignore the overarching reasons why they happen.
Where were you during the McAlpine story? Were you deploring those who were showing obvious glee in the fact that a Conservative was being accused of such crimes (wrongly, as it turned out)?
All that effort to present 2004 Children's Act - Every Child Matters as a success has been wasted by the likes of Rotherham Council.
Tony Blair and his team of Ministers must be so, so gutted.
Charles Clarke, Dr John Reid, Paul Boateng, Alan Johnson, Nick Raynsford, Lord Rooker, Alun Michael, Jaquci Smith, Margaret Hodge, Ivor Caplin, Lord Filkin, Baroness Ashton of Upholland, Stephen Ladyman, Paul Goggins, Estelle Morris.
@Socrates It shows how callous some right wing posters are that they only want to talk about abuse cases where they think they can get political traction. Child abuse seems to have been covered up in several other cases, covering all walks of life and regions. A laser like focus on only those ones that fit our political agendas without viewing them as a whole, does no party or commentator any credit. Yes Rotheram is a scandal, and should be investigated, but it is not a one party or group problem as all the other cases have shown. There is evidence, surprisingly enough, that even Mr.s T and her party whips could turn a blind eye when it suited them, and in the case of the whips, possibly used knowledge of misdeeds to ensure party discipline.
It's callous to talk about Rotherham? And it isn't one groups that is a problem in these cases?
The reaction from some to this news is bizarre to say the least.
@JosiasJessop I don't recall commenting on it one way or the other. One thing I have learned, is that if you accuse one party of misdeeds, your own party will be shown at some point to be equally guilty.
Don't you think there is a bit of a difference of scale?
Did he share them around his 250 of his friends? did he force them to watch as others were brutally raped? Did he traffic them to other cities? did he intimidate their relatives? Did he break their brothers legs? Did he racially abuse them? Did he smash their parents windows?
Did a labour council ignore the whole thing despite overwhelming evidence because they didn;t want to rock the religious boat?
Abolish Rotherham council and have its functions taken over by central government.
I don't know about that but there is an argument to be made to abolish the South Yorks Police force. The number of cases of institutional corruption going back decades involving that force suggests that its culture is totally beyond the pale. Disband it and start again is probably the only way it could be sorted out.
It seems somewhat ironic that an independent Scotland using sterlingisation, may have to say goodbye to its banknotes, and use the ones printed by the Bank of England instead.
Imagine the amusement to be had by putting Thatcher on the back of the £10 note.
And perhaps something to remind us of another Scottish last leap into the dark, namely the Darien Scheme, to which I can see certain parallels...
How desperate can you get , why not compare it with the London fiasco in 2008 you stupid turnip headed halfwit. I think £1.5 trillion lost by those duffers far outweighs something from centuries ago. What a pathetic drivelling, halfwitted, moronic, cretinous, thick, stupid oaf you are.
@JosiasJessopp: "We have to ask how we can teach a generation or two in these areas that these actions are not acceptable."
One thing we can do is not use the words "not acceptable". Far too weak. We're not talking about using fish knives to eat steak, for God's sake.
These actions are WRONG. They are evil. They are crimes. And the people who do this are evil and vile. We need to use harsh words to describe evil acts and the people who commit them so that they are shocked into being faced with what they really are and so that we start reimposing some taboos which may (only may, I realise) help in imposing some limits on people's behaviour.
@JosiasJessop I don't recall commenting on it one way or the other. One thing I have learned, is that if you accuse one party of misdeeds, your own party will be shown at some point to be equally guilty.
And if it's not shown to be equally guilty, it will be smeared as being equally guilty.
A deacon convicted of sexually abusing 10 boys at a Greater Manchester school has been jailed for nine years.
The Rev Alan Morris, 64, was found guilty of 19 sex assaults carried out when he taught at St Ambrose RC College in Hale Barns, Altrincham.
When the offences took place, between 1972 and 1991, the school was run by Roman Catholic religious order the Christian Brothers
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-28855495
Is that the 'look, but they're all at it' defence?
DEFENCE?!
More a case of "probably counter productive to focus obsessively on selective aspects of selective cases that conveniently reinforce our political views or prejudices if we genuinely want to address the horrors of Child Sexual Exploitation"
If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.
So it can only be for the money.
I expect it is only for the money, and I think he should certainly resign - which is one reason why a robust recall mechanism is essential. If signatures were now being gathered in South Yorkshire for a recall election then he would know the game was up - just as Parliament shouldn't have members such as Eric Joyce or Mike Hancock who are impossible to remove until the next general election.
However, his justification does have some logic to it, as he states that he resigned in 2010 on this issue and has a fresh electoral mandate for sorting it out as a result of the PCC elections. This raises two questions.
One - why on earth did Labour select him to be their PCC candidate?
Two - Is it not dangerous to create a system where people believe they have a democratic mandate in elections where the turnout is only ~15%? Maybe the proposed system for Trade Union ballots should be used for elections more widely, and a person can only be considered elected if they gain more votes than the "stay at home party" - otherwise the seat remains vacant and the election is re-run.
But does that turnout argument apply for MPs as well? Shortly before the PCC election Lucy Powell got elected as an MP on just an 18.2% turnout.
Does she have a democratic mandate, and should she be an MP? Where do you set the limit? If 15% is too low, then is 18%? 30%? 50%?
Of course, this is just an argument for compulsory voting ;-) ...
I would apply a similar argument for MPs as well - it would mean that Labour politicians would have to work to increase the turnout in their safe seats.
Where I set the limit is that I assume that everyone who does not vote has voted for Re-Open Nominations - though I would have that explicitly on the ballot paper too.
So, to take an example, Doncaster North at the 2010 GE. The winning candidate received 19,637 votes, but about 30,900 people on the electoral roll did not vote.
I would void the election and re-open nominations.
A potential problem with this system is that opposition parties could boycott elections in the hope of keeping these seats empty, so I haven't thought it all through.
Funny how PB Tories are still obsessed by the small town in Sheffield story as Tory MPs contemplating defection to UKIP appears to be somewhat a more serious problem for Dave
You're surprised the systematic exploitation of 1400 kids and an institutional cover-up is talked about more than a political defection?
This case has really shown how callous some left-wing posters are.
and how obsessed with racial hatred some right wing posters are?
That's a pathetic slur.
It's like arguing that criticism of the Catholic Church over child abuse is motivated by anti-Catholic bigotry.
@CopperSulphate From the quote I made :- "Yes Rotheram is a scandal, and should be investigated" Michael Gove would be disappointing in your level of comprehension, Everyone else just accepts your constant misreading of things for what it is.
An employee of RBS told me she thought the Scottish Banks would carry on printing Sterling notes because they recently showcased their new plastic designs. She seemed genuinely surprised when I suggested voters down South would demand of their politicians that their license to do so be revoked.
For all the discussion on currency, a lot of people in Scotland think there is already 'Scottish money' because of what the banknotes have printed on them.
: London is the capital of Britain, therefore Scotland is 'ruled' not just from England but by England.
Did you tell her that RBS and Lloyds will rush their registration to the rUK (if it's OK with the EU in the case of Lloyds!) in the event of Scottish independence? So hoiking the licence wouldn't be a matter of England telling Scotland what to do.
An iScotland government or banks active in Scotland could of course print some kind of paper backed by the GBPs that are already held in Scotland. But that's a point for the better informed among us. Ditto with the points that monetary union without fiscal union means there'd be no Scottish control over the Scottish economy, and a Scottish currency would be unlikely to work given that Salmond has threatened to renege on debts. From the YES supporters' point of view, those points can only be made by people who've been duped by scaremongerers into 'doing Scotland down'. Our 'belief' isn't strong enough.
Against stupidity, even the gods battle in vain.
But oh no, "it's Scotland's pound too" and so on.
Shouty, naive, smily, prickly xenophobia against cautious common sense. Who will win?
Survation was at 53%-47% before the first debate, suggesting we might be at 57%-43%, but then there is a secondary effect, surely, from the reporting of the second debate and from this poll. NO might get less than 57%.
The NO campaign should push the £85000 question hard. "Let's keep our bank accounts protected".
Salmond has just repeated for the umpteenth time publicly that the 85K EU rule is guaranteed to remain in an independent Scotland. You got any more stupid questions.
How is he going to implement it without a lender of last resort? Is the Scottish Government (trans. Scottish Tax Payer) going to underwrite it?
I am sure we are too poor and too stupid to be able to do that, not as if we are like any other country in the world we need someone to do it for us.
It's the SNP that wants "someone else to do it for us" - ie the Bank of England and the rUK tax payer. I guess it's the SNP that thinks you're too poor and too stupid...
Whilst the recent rout of Kiev forces after the rebel counteroffensive has relieved the daily shelling and bombing of civilian areas in the Donbass a humanitarian disaster remains.
@JosiasJessop Yes, Labour whips probably did the same as the Tory ones, but they do have an admission of malpractice by the Tory one that the practice was common, and his candor showed that he thought it acceptable.
Racism has become so hysterical a subject that it has crowded out all other moral concerns, including in this case the concern to look after children. (One doesn’t often get the chance to praise one’s own profession — so it is worth pointing out that, if it weren’t for some courageous reporting, notably in The Times, the full scale of the Rotherham scandal may never have been widely known.)
@isam I have never accused you of being racist, and I am not pointing at any poster left or right. Like you, I am appalled when these cases are used as a stick to beat our opponents with, while we ignore the overarching reasons why they happen.
I can't speak for anyone else on here but my view is that these offences happen where there is a large concentration of people prepared to cover it up. There don't seem to be cases of Pakistani Muslims doing this to children in Essex, this is because there aren't parts of Essex with a huge concentration of Pakistani Muslims... Those that are here seem to mix with the rest of the population rather than live in segregated ghettos
Obviously Pakistani Muslims aren't necessarily more likely to be sex offenders as a whole, no more than comedians or Djs or anyone else, but when large groups of any race or religion live in isolation it is a breeding ground for aggro vs the rest of society. Could have just as easily been Amish Americans had we got mass immigration of them
The recipe for civil strife is a segregated society with the authorities turning a blind eye to one sides grievances, if the Rotherham community was more integrated, it would have been stopped earlier, or more likely never happened at all
@JosiasJessop Yes, Labour whips probably did the same as the Tory ones, but they do have an admission of malpractice by the Tory one that the practice was common, and his candor showed that he thought it acceptable.
Don't be silly, there was one, probably facetious, off-the-cuff remark by someone long dead who can therefore not be asked what he meant, if anything. Hardly an 'admission of malpractice by the Tory one that the practice was common'.
I'm a Catholic and I was appalled by the Church cover-up over many years. Gradually and far too very slowly it is being sorted out. As Yasmin A-B says, you can't defend the indefensible. And that includes all the what-aboutery defence.
To try and defend industrial-scale rape by saying 'look, squirrel' is obscene.
To err may be human but to downplay it belittles you.
Would an independent Scotland remain in the EU? The SNP have a terrible record of making-it-up-as-they-go-along on this question. Even now they are still at it.
In December 2007 Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon told the Scottish Parliament that an independent Scotland would “automatically” become a member state of the European Union, that there would be no need for an independent Scotland to renegotiate EU membership and that this position was supported by both political and legal opinion. Utter fantasy.
Racism has become so hysterical a subject that it has crowded out all other moral concerns, including in this case the concern to look after children. (One doesn’t often get the chance to praise one’s own profession — so it is worth pointing out that, if it weren’t for some courageous reporting, notably in The Times, the full scale of the Rotherham scandal may never have been widely known.)
Yes, the wicked Murdoch press, reporting the appalling truth.
The word I'd most like to kill or get re-branded is: Asian.
The vast majority of actual Asians refer to themsleves as Asians - being the larger group beyond their nationality. (Chinese, Koreans, Japs, Mongolians, Vietnamese, Filippinos, etc). And they refer to those from the sub-continent as specifically Indian or Pakistani or Afghan etc. Actually the Chinese refer to 'YinBa' people - meaning Indian or Pakistani grouped together - as distinct from Asian. The USA also uses this correct classification / distinction. If you are 'Asian' in the US you are what we would probably call Oriental. But Asia is a continent.
The delights that we enjoy from our own 'Asian' community seriously seriously pisses off those who are actually Asian when being referred to as 'Asian'. It's like saying the Holocaust was committed by 'Europeans'.
So let us henceforth refer to gang abuse committed by predominantly P{kistani Muslim men - not to crimes committed by Asian men. Because they weren't.
Another day of deafening silence from spineless Ed Miliband, on the sexual abuse of 1200 in Rotherham.
Do votes matter more than children?
A number of commentators here have suggested that this is too important an issue for a partisan approach. I look forward to your explanation as to why we are wrong and you are right.
Surely a non-partisan approach would mean a thorough condemnation from all party leaders and a pledge to work together to address all the issues?
Instead Miliband is silent on this. It's disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself.
Miliband is widely reported to have called for the South Yorkshire PCC to resign his post. So where have you credulously picked up this meme?
Ed Milliband was more than happy to emote over the victims of hacking but is curiously silent over the child victims of vastly more serious and vicious crimes.
It's odd. Just as a normal human reaction one would have thought that the Leader of the Opposition would want to say something about what is, however one looks at it, a dreadful scandal covering not just rape but collusion, cover up, suppression of whistleblowers, destruction of files and possible obstruction of investigations, misfeasance in public office etc.
And so the teensiest suspicion is raised that maybe nothing is being said because the fact that it (and other similar cases) happened under a Labour council during a Labour government boasting about all the cultural enrichment from immigration and how much was being spent on public services etc makes it all a tiny bit embarrassing.
If he really wants to pose as a man of courage standing up to vested interests, he should speak out, no matter if this does infuriate Labour councillors or certain types of voters. SO had it right when he said exactly this a few days ago.
If the Labour Party does not stand up for the weak and vulnerable what the hell is it for?
One thing with this scandal, those able to bring about sackings etc should make sure every i is dotted, t crossed and back checked triple with their legal departments.
@Richard_Nabavi He admitted it on tape, and he knew he was being filmed, are you saying he was incompetent and stupid? Or perhaps it was a jest?
Have you actually read the quote? It's clearly not meant as a serious point, but as a light-hearted way of saying that the whips kept tabs on MPs. It is certainly nowhere near anything like 'evidence' or an 'admission'.
I would apply a similar argument for MPs as well - it would mean that Labour politicians would have to work to increase the turnout in their safe seats.
Where I set the limit is that I assume that everyone who does not vote has voted for Re-Open Nominations - though I would have that explicitly on the ballot paper too.
So, to take an example, Doncaster North at the 2010 GE. The winning candidate received 19,637 votes, but about 30,900 people on the electoral roll did not vote.
I would void the election and re-open nominations.
A potential problem with this system is that opposition parties could boycott elections in the hope of keeping these seats empty, so I haven't thought it all through.
Hmmm, at least your view's very consistent. But as you say, that system will be able to be played. And if you set the limit at (say) 30%, would someone who scrapes past with 30.1% really have much more of a mandate than someone who gets 29.9%, especially if the latter gets 60% of the vote and the former just 40%?
As people on here know all to well (fx: repeated groans), I am in favour of compulsory voting, with 'none of the above' and 'I do not agree with this system' additional options.
People who do not vote are fined a nominal sum (£20?) which goes to charity.
@CopperSulphate From the quote I made :- "Yes Rotheram is a scandal, and should be investigated" Michael Gove would be disappointing in your level of comprehension, Everyone else just accepts your constant misreading of things for what it is.
MIchael Gove got a degree in English at Oxford I believe so thanks.
I get the feeling that some posters would rather that this whole subject wasn't talked about and will bring up unrelated issues in an attempt to muddy the waters. I could be completely wrong, but that is how it is coming across to me.
Have to go out, genuinely, sorry - but much of it is a negative which I cannot therefore prove, obviously, and the rest you will be familiar with. If you need to refresh your memory on what has been a loooong campaign, you could check out the Wee Blue Book on wingsoverscotland.com - I am sure it will have germane facts (from the unionist side) and comment, and almost certainly the necessary references.
As for failue to pay the debt, (a) there is no such thing now the Treasury has spoken, and (b) it would only happen if EWNI had welshed in the first place.
I see you adopt the Swinney approach that the other side won't mind on the debt....good luck with that! When has rUK ever been asked if it wanted a currency union?
You keep using that NO apologist Tomkins as being right about everything. The man is a buffoon.
Or perhaps a reversion to the mean. For some time, Populus had been putting Labour c.2% ahead on average, before producing three polls putting them 5-6% ahead.
Mr. Eagles, but would the Conservatives want Lord as their candidate?
It'd be a bit weird if, as mentioned yesterday by someone else, we had such political cross-dressing going on. The Transvestite Duel of Clacton could be quite entertaining.
Mr. Eagles, but would the Conservatives want Lord as their candidate?
It'd be a bit weird if, as mentioned yesterday by someone else, we had such political cross-dressing going on. The Transvestite Duel of Clacton could be quite entertaining.
Mr. Eagles, but would the Conservatives want Lord as their candidate?
Not a chance; the Tories will need some tactical voting from anti-UKIPpers to have a prayer. But keeping Lord in the headlines helps to push the "UKIP aren't serious or professional" meme.
Academic study: bigger firms could leave iScotland if currency deal fails
MAJOR Scottish companies will quit the country if post-Yes talks even start to suggest a currency union will not materialise, according to an independent survey.
Several "larger PLCs" would move their headquarters south of the Border as soon as they felt the "direction of travel" in separation negotiations would hurt the pound or put up barriers to trading, the Edinburgh University study found.
Oops! Edinburgh......
Has nobody on this site noticed that Mr Cameron was berated at the infamous illegal-when-planned dinner in Glasgow, and by the CBI no less, for his chaos over Brexit? (Or EWNIexit as the case may be.)
Yes, Dave was in receipt of two rather unhelpful interventions yesterday - tho I believe some suggested that while no one would believe the CBI on the UK, magically they would on the EU. Odd that.....
Well, you might want to consider the closeness of the links between the CBI's members and the London and Edinburgh governments respectively, and consider whose choke collar is having the lead yanked.
I see that US companies are already moving to Dublin, BTW. A Scotland in the EU and EWNI out of it could be very interesting.
How long will it take Scotland to become an EU member exactly?
Keep praying and sticking the pins in Saddo , it will still be far too quick for sad losers like you
Obvious troll, trolls obviously. Tick Toc, soon be over.
@CopperSulphate From the quote I made :- "Yes Rotheram is a scandal, and should be investigated" Michael Gove would be disappointing in your level of comprehension, Everyone else just accepts your constant misreading of things for what it is.
MIchael Gove got a degree in English at Oxford I believe so thanks.
I get the feeling that some posters would rather that this whole subject wasn't talked about and will bring up unrelated issues in an attempt to muddy the waters. I could be completely wrong, but that is how it is coming across to me.
Both ways, perhaps? Rotherham is being used to distract from Carswell, and Carswell is being used to distract from Rotherham. Yes, Miliband should have said something but what has Cameron said other than PCC Wright should resign? Labour said the same.
Perhaps more is to emerge. We know about Rotherham because of the Jay report, which was commissioned by the council, incidentally, but there have been similar grooming gangs jailed in other towns.
The Catholic Church covered up the child abuse scandal to protect itself. The result was a far bigger scandal and continuing damage. Innocent priests are now looked at suspiciously. But saying that CoE vicars and atheists are just as bad would invite ridicule.
The Rotherham report shows that some Labour councillors also blocked real investigation and encouraged a cover-up. Guess what the response from some on here is?
Another day of deafening silence from spineless Ed Miliband, on the sexual abuse of 1200 in Rotherham.
Do votes matter more than children?
A number of commentators here have suggested that this is too important an issue for a partisan approach. I look forward to your explanation as to why we are wrong and you are right.
Surely a non-partisan approach would mean a thorough condemnation from all party leaders and a pledge to work together to address all the issues?
Instead Miliband is silent on this. It's disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself.
Miliband is widely reported to have called for the South Yorkshire PCC to resign his post. So where have you credulously picked up this meme?
Ed Milliband was more than happy to emote over the victims of hacking but is curiously silent over the child victims of vastly more serious and vicious crimes.
It's odd. Just as a normal human reaction one would have thought that the Leader of the Opposition would want to say something about what is, however one looks at it, a dreadful scandal covering not just rape but collusion, cover up, suppression of whistleblowers, destruction of files and possible obstruction of investigations, misfeasance in public office etc.
And so the teensiest suspicion is raised that maybe nothing is being said because the fact that it (and other similar cases) happened under a Labour council during a Labour government boasting about all the cultural enrichment from immigration and how much was being spent on public services etc makes it all a tiny bit embarrassing.
If he really wants to pose as a man of courage standing up to vested interests, he should speak out, no matter if this does infuriate Labour councillors or certain types of voters. SO had it right when he said exactly this a few days ago.
If the Labour Party does not stand up for the weak and vulnerable what the hell is it for?
If this week's appointment is anything to go by, then Ed is perfectly happy to stand up for girls who are abused and women who suffer from domestic violence, but not boys or men.
In addition: "Labour has promised to bring in a violence against women and girls bill" (1)
This was in the same week that Barnardos has announced that one-third of child abuse victims are male (2). In addition, a quarter of all victims of domestic violence are male - and this is likely to go underreported (3).
Can anyone defend Labour's sexist viewpoint on this?
Mr. G, Salmond cannot (unless he's wealthier than I imagined) guarantee deposits up to 85,000 (is that pounds, or euros?).
A central bank can.
The only ways the deposit guarantee can remain is: 1) currency union (pound or euro) 2) a Scottish currency
Why sterlingisation even remains on the table perplexes me. Maybe it's clever bluffing, and if Yes wins it'll be swept away for sound economic reasons, having served its purpose convincing people to vote for independence.
Why could Scotland not have a central bank
If Scotland uses the pound but is not in a monetary union with rUK then the Bank of England will not stand behind a foreign country's bank (RBS?) in a crisis; nor print money to support a foreign country's government economic policy; nor stand behind deposit guarantees if the foreign country bank's backup fund runs out.
Similarly interest rates will be set by the Bank of England to suit rUK and Scotland will have to accept them (plus a bit for extra risk). At present the Monetary Policy Committee takes account of the Scottish economy in its decisions alongside other parts of the UK.
If Scotland has its own currency then a 'Bank of Scotland' can adopt all the above functions but it needs its own currency to do so.
Exactly so all this absolute bollocks about LOLR is just a Tory wet dream on here. So we either do a deal and remain as part owners of the BofE or we set up our own. Sounds scary does it not.
Mr. Eagles, but would the Conservatives want Lord as their candidate?
Not a chance; the Tories will need some tactical voting from anti-UKIPpers to have a prayer. But keeping Lord in the headlines helps to push the "UKIP aren't serious or professional" meme.
I reckon he'll take another ukip candidacy somewhere else eventually... Bit shoddy from ukip though, even if he does sound a nutter
I can't see why he doesn't just wear it. He said on the radio he didn't stand in 2010 because we gave Carswell a free run! But he won't stand aside now?!
Academic study: bigger firms could leave iScotland if currency deal fails
MAJOR Scottish companies will quit the country if post-Yes talks even start to suggest a currency union will not materialise, according to an independent survey.
Several "larger PLCs" would move their headquarters south of the Border as soon as they felt the "direction of travel" in separation negotiations would hurt the pound or put up barriers to trading, the Edinburgh University study found.
Oops! Edinburgh......
Has nobody on this site noticed that Mr Cameron was berated at the infamous illegal-when-planned dinner in Glasgow, and by the CBI no less, for his chaos over Brexit? (Or EWNIexit as the case may be.)
Yes, Dave was in receipt of two rather unhelpful interventions yesterday - tho I believe some suggested that while no one would believe the CBI on the UK, magically they would on the EU. Odd that.....
Well, you might want to consider the closeness of the links between the CBI's members and the London and Edinburgh governments respectively, and consider whose choke collar is having the lead yanked.
I see that US companies are already moving to Dublin, BTW. A Scotland in the EU and EWNI out of it could be very interesting.
How long will it take Scotland to become an EU member exactly?
Keep praying and sticking the pins in Saddo , it will still be far too quick for sad losers like you
Obvious troll, trolls obviously. Tick Toc, soon be over.
Sad loser posts usual sad crap,
Don't be so hard on yourself, we know you're very trying your best.
@CopperSulphate I am against people covering up crimes and injustices for their own convenience, and those that willfully ignore them are equally as bad. The problem I have with the recurring abuse cases is that it is all to easy to blame it on one specific part of a system or group, score a few points, then let the same thing happen in other organizations and places. People in power are always tempted to abuse that power, our defence is supposed to be our judicial system and police. It would appear that they have an equal amount of corruption and self interest as the rest of our institutions and businesses, while they all preach morality towards the general population. Unless we understand this, we will stumble on in our broken and disjointed way to the next scandal.
I'm a Catholic and I was appalled by the Church cover-up over many years. Gradually and far too very slowly it is being sorted out. As Yasmin A-B says, you can't defend the indefensible. And that includes all the what-aboutery defence.
To try and defend industrial-scale rape by saying 'look, squirrel' is obscene.
To err may be human but to downplay it belittles you.
Well said. I agree with you. I too am Catholic and ashamed of the child abuse committed by Catholic priests and have said so, on recent threads and elsewhere.
Only SO has had the courage, as a Labour poster, to criticise his own party over this. Others could learn from him.
Mr. G, Scotland could have a central bank, but not with sterlingisation (by definition).
That means either joining the euro, getting a currency union with the pound (deeply unlikely) or creating a Scottish currency.
But sterlingisation is the most commonly talked about Plan B.
MD you can pussy foot about but, can we do just what all other countries in the world do, yes or no. You can call it fancy names or LOLR or whatever but can they do it, explain why they cannot.
My own hope is that a full enquiry not only eviscerates and brings profound change to rotten boroughs and PC police cowardice on such abuse but also wreaks similar damage to political protection rackets. I'm not sure if there is today a law obliging those in public positions not to 'knowingly abandon their duties' or some appropriate legal wording.
Rent seeking and abuse of power at the top of public life is rank. I'll be delighted to see ALOT of local politicians, police, social workers, national politicians, whips, etc get jail sentences. Justice must not only be done but be seen to be done.
Don't be daft, that isn't going to happen.
The first thing is that the enquiry will have very wide terms of reference and be required to look at the problem on a national basis. This ensures that it will take years but still not get to grips with the wrong doing of individuals. Meanwhile, those who are up to their necks in the cover-ups and obfuscations and just ignoring the evidence presented to them will gradually retire, on full pensions of course, or move on to other, equally well remunerated, public sector jobs. Local investigations which might get to the truth about the guilty will be hampered or even not started because it would be "inappropriate whilst the national enquiry is sitting". After several years the national enquiry will issue its report, which will say that terrible crimes happened and were allowed to happen, systemic failures, lessons have been learned and issue a list of recommendations. Everyone will nod sagely, the government of the day will introduce another act requiring "inter-agency cooperation" (always popular in these matters).
How many times have we been down this route in the last forty years? Inter-agency cooperation is a recipe to ensure that nobody is responsible but everyone can point to the case conferences they have been to and the concerns they expressed.
There is in the Telegraph today clear allegations that named people surpressed and destroyed evidence of crimes and tried, possibly with some success, to get a report re-wrtitten in a more favourable light. That is a fairly straightforward allegation of criminal conduct by people whose names are know. So get another police force in (South Yorks are clearly unfit to investigate) and investigate. Doesn't need a judge or a national enquiry or any other damn thing other than someone in power saying get on with it.
Lots of complaints in here this morning about the Leader of the Opposition not saying anything about what has gone on. Fair enough, but I am not reading too much about the Home Secretary actually doing anything.
And if you set the limit at (say) 30%, would someone who scrapes past with 30.1% really have much more of a mandate than someone who gets 29.9%, especially if the latter gets 60% of the vote and the former just 40%?
Well, any electoral system will have people elected by thin margins.
George Eustice's vote in the Commons (Majority 66) is worth the same as Jonathan Djanogly's (Majority 10,819) for example.
Secondly, you slightly misunderstand my off-the-cuff proposal, which would operate on the absolute number of votes, rather than vote shares - to be elected a person would have to receive more votes than abstentions, as well as more votes than any other candidate, thus dealing with your latter scenario.
I dislike compulsory voting - rather the electoral system should incentivise higher turnouts, which it does not do at present.
Mr. Eagles, but would the Conservatives want Lord as their candidate?
Not a chance; the Tories will need some tactical voting from anti-UKIPpers to have a prayer. But keeping Lord in the headlines helps to push the "UKIP aren't serious or professional" meme.
I reckon he'll take another ukip candidacy somewhere else eventually... Bit shoddy from ukip though, even if he does sound a nutter
I can't see why he doesn't just wear it. He said on the radio he didn't stand in 2010 because we gave Carswell a free run! But he won't stand aside now?!
When even Kippers admit they have nutters, what was it Dave said about Kippers?
Mr. Eagles, but would the Conservatives want Lord as their candidate?
Not a chance; the Tories will need some tactical voting from anti-UKIPpers to have a prayer. But keeping Lord in the headlines helps to push the "UKIP aren't serious or professional" meme.
I reckon he'll take another ukip candidacy somewhere else eventually... Bit shoddy from ukip though, even if he does sound a nutter
I can't see why he doesn't just wear it. He said on the radio he didn't stand in 2010 because we gave Carswell a free run! But he won't stand aside now?!
To me, it makes perfect sense that he should not have been informed. Loose lips sink ships, and the potential defection of a sitting MP is not something you wish to discuss widely.
Mr. Lord should know very well that he can't be the candidate if the local MP switches sides.
Mr. G, Salmond cannot (unless he's wealthier than I imagined) guarantee deposits up to 85,000 (is that pounds, or euros?).
A central bank can.
The only ways the deposit guarantee can remain is: 1) currency union (pound or euro) 2) a Scottish currency
Why sterlingisation even remains on the table perplexes me. Maybe it's clever bluffing, and if Yes wins it'll be swept away for sound economic reasons, having served its purpose convincing people to vote for independence.
Why could Scotland not have a central bank
If Scotland uses the pound but is not in a monetary union with rUK then the Bank of England will not stand behind a foreign country's bank (RBS?) in a crisis; nor print money to support a foreign country's government economic policy; nor stand behind deposit guarantees if the foreign country bank's backup fund runs out.
Similarly interest rates will be set by the Bank of England to suit rUK and Scotland will have to accept them (plus a bit for extra risk). At present the Monetary Policy Committee takes account of the Scottish economy in its decisions alongside other parts of the UK.
If Scotland has its own currency then a 'Bank of Scotland' can adopt all the above functions but it needs its own currency to do so.
So Scottish pounds then pegged to whatever other currency we want. Currently the MPC does what is good for London.
Another day of deafening silence from spineless Ed Miliband, on the sexual abuse of 1200 in Rotherham.
Do votes matter more than children?
A number of commentators here have suggested that this is too important an issue for a partisan approach. I look forward to your explanation as to why we are wrong and you are right.
Surely a non-partisan approach would mean a thorough condemnation from all party leaders and a pledge to work together to address all the issues?
Instead Miliband is silent on this. It's disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself.
Miliband is widely reported to have called for the South Yorkshire PCC to resign his post. So where have you credulously picked up this meme?
Ed Milliband was more than happy to emote over the victims of hacking but is curiously silent over the child victims of vastly more serious and vicious crimes.
It's odd. Just as a normal human reaction one would have thought that the Leader of the Opposition would want to say something about what is, however one looks at it, a dreadful scandal covering not just rape but collusion, cover up, suppression of whistleblowers, destruction of files and possible obstruction of investigations, misfeasance in public office etc.
And so the teensiest suspicion is raised that maybe nothing is being said because the fact that it (and other similar cases) happened under a Labour council during a Labour government boasting about all the cultural enrichment from immigration and how much was being spent on public services etc makes it all a tiny bit embarrassing.
If he really wants to pose as a man of courage standing up to vested interests, he should speak out, no matter if this does infuriate Labour councillors or certain types of voters. SO had it right when he said exactly this a few days ago.
If the Labour Party does not stand up for the weak and vulnerable what the hell is it for?
Appeasement of the Muslim block vote. Miliband has stayed quiet for the same reason as he has said barely anything about ISIS and support for Hamas. Labour are the party of Muslims just like Congress are the party of Muslims in India. In a tight election Labour can't afford to have the Muslim vote split by Respect and the Lib Dems. Ed Miliband may not personally agree with it, and I am sure he is against Hamas, the rape gangs and ISIS but it is clear that Labour strategists have put the fear into him and he is now weak on any policy area which could even possibly be seen as against Muslims.
Would an independent Scotland remain in the EU? The SNP have a terrible record of making-it-up-as-they-go-along on this question. Even now they are still at it.
In December 2007 Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon told the Scottish Parliament that an independent Scotland would “automatically” become a member state of the European Union, that there would be no need for an independent Scotland to renegotiate EU membership and that this position was supported by both political and legal opinion. Utter fantasy.
Mr. G, sterlingisation would be awful for Scotland.
Foreign country sets your rates, and you have no lender of last resort to back up deposits or financial institutions.
As the eurozone has shown us, one currency for varying countries does not work, because no one interest rate can work for divergent economies. Of course, Scotland could go for sterlingisation without UK approval or agreement, but why not go for a Scottish pound instead? Then you actually get independence, and can set your own rates, as well as having a lender of last resort.
Mr. G, Salmond cannot (unless he's wealthier than I imagined) guarantee deposits up to 85,000 (is that pounds, or euros?).
A central bank can.
The only ways the deposit guarantee can remain is: 1) currency union (pound or euro) 2) a Scottish currency
Why sterlingisation even remains on the table perplexes me. Maybe it's clever bluffing, and if Yes wins it'll be swept away for sound economic reasons, having served its purpose convincing people to vote for independence.
Why could Scotland not have a central bank
If Scotland uses the pound but is not in a monetary union with rUK then the Bank of England will not stand behind a foreign country's bank (RBS?) in a crisis; nor print money to support a foreign country's government economic policy; nor stand behind deposit guarantees if the foreign country bank's backup fund runs out.
Similarly interest rates will be set by the Bank of England to suit rUK and Scotland will have to accept them (plus a bit for extra risk). At present the Monetary Policy Committee takes account of the Scottish economy in its decisions alongside other parts of the UK.
If Scotland has its own currency then a 'Bank of Scotland' can adopt all the above functions but it needs its own currency to do so.
So Scottish pounds then pegged to whatever other currency we want. Currently the MPC does what is good for London.
That last part is definitely not true. We have a ccompletely untamed housing bubble in London caused by low interest rates to suit the policy goals for the rest of the UK. Interest rates for London only would be closer to 2% to get the housing bubble under control.
Comments
One thing we can do is not use the words "not acceptable". Far too weak. We're not talking about using fish knives to eat steak, for God's sake.
These actions are WRONG. They are evil. They are crimes. And the people who do this are evil and vile. We need to use harsh words to describe evil acts and the people who commit them so that they are shocked into being faced with what they really are and so that we start reimposing some taboos which may (only may, I realise) help in imposing some limits on people's behaviour.
The smarter labour posters and thinkers realise that labour, far more than any other party, do have a problem with this - and it will need to change a central plank of its agenda, namely political correctness, to prosper.
But hey, carry with your 'not a party issue'...... 'lessons will be learned' .......delusions if you wish
They certainly seem oddly obsessed by one particular aspect of this complex case.
But I'm sure they'd be equally excited if it was, say, high profile white figures with links to, ooh, a rightwing establishment.
But no recent cases of that nature spring to mind. At all.
True. Its just one of a legion that will be recycled over the next few months I suspect.
I have never accused you of being racist, and I am not pointing at any poster left or right.
Like you, I am appalled when these cases are used as a stick to beat our opponents with, while we ignore the overarching reasons why they happen.
The Rev Alan Morris, 64, was found guilty of 19 sex assaults carried out when he taught at St Ambrose RC College in Hale Barns, Altrincham.
When the offences took place, between 1972 and 1991, the school was run by Roman Catholic religious order the Christian Brothers
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-28855495
It's like arguing that criticism of the Catholic Church over child abuse is motivated by anti-Catholic bigotry.
One was Fraser Nelson and one was Nesrine Malik (I assumed from the Guardian) and they managed to talk about it as a sort of generalised failure of the system. Regrettable, but these things can happen. No mention of the perpetrators' or the victims' race.
All very civilised but I felt like I was inhabiting a parallel universe. Up with the carpet and under goes the dust already.
No matter how much PB Tories rant that they should
My vote at the PCC election went to a Lib Dem who had been involved in NSLEC. He was, in my view, the best candidate. He didn't win, but at least I had a choice, and at least I know the name of my PCC. I never knew the names of any of the anonymous members of the police authority that he replaced.
If Scotland uses the pound but is not in a monetary union with rUK then the Bank of England will not stand behind a foreign country's bank (RBS?) in a crisis; nor print money to support a foreign country's government economic policy; nor stand behind deposit guarantees if the foreign country bank's backup fund runs out.
Similarly interest rates will be set by the Bank of England to suit rUK and Scotland will have to accept them (plus a bit for extra risk). At present the Monetary Policy Committee takes account of the Scottish economy in its decisions alongside other parts of the UK.
If Scotland has its own currency then a 'Bank of Scotland' can adopt all the above functions but it needs its own currency to do so.
Yes dear, now tell me what you think of one of the whips knowing of abuse, but helping the perpetrator out for party reasons?
When people like him start talking in these terms then I'll start believing in their raw honesty.
Rent seeking and abuse of power at the top of public life is rank. I'll be delighted to see ALOT of local politicians, police, social workers, national politicians, whips, etc get jail sentences. Justice must not only be done but be seen to be done.
That means either joining the euro, getting a currency union with the pound (deeply unlikely) or creating a Scottish currency.
But sterlingisation is the most commonly talked about Plan B.
I imagine, though, that he didn't douse his victims in petrol, gang-rape them, or threaten them with extreme violence. Nor were there 1400 victims. Nor was the local council told repeatedly about what was going on.
Don't you think there is a bit of a difference of scale, scope, and political/bureaucratic responsibility?
No, I thought not.
But, whatabouttery doesn't obscure what took place in Rotherham.
Tony Blair and his team of Ministers must be so, so gutted.
Charles Clarke, Dr John Reid, Paul Boateng, Alan Johnson, Nick Raynsford, Lord Rooker, Alun Michael, Jaquci Smith, Margaret Hodge, Ivor Caplin, Lord Filkin, Baroness Ashton of Upholland, Stephen Ladyman, Paul Goggins, Estelle Morris.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130401151715/http://www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/DFES10812004.pdf
The reaction from some to this news is bizarre to say the least.
I don't recall commenting on it one way or the other.
One thing I have learned, is that if you accuse one party of misdeeds, your own party will be shown at some point to be equally guilty.
Did he share them around his 250 of his friends? did he force them to watch as others were brutally raped? Did he traffic them to other cities? did he intimidate their relatives? Did he break their brothers legs? Did he racially abuse them? Did he smash their parents windows?
Did a labour council ignore the whole thing despite overwhelming evidence because they didn;t want to rock the religious boat?
Did he profit from pimping them?
What a pathetic drivelling, halfwitted, moronic, cretinous, thick, stupid oaf you are.
That's become a catch-all value judgement to criticise anything and everything in the case of PCness.
More a case of "probably counter productive to focus obsessively on selective aspects of selective cases that conveniently reinforce our political views or prejudices if we genuinely want to address the horrors of Child Sexual Exploitation"
Russia airing public concerns regarding a cover up over MH-17.
http://blackbag.gawker.com/u-s-intelligence-vets-criticize-obama-for-peddling-wea-1615618579
It doesn't alter the fact that what took place was a scandal, which needed exposing.
Where I set the limit is that I assume that everyone who does not vote has voted for Re-Open Nominations - though I would have that explicitly on the ballot paper too.
So, to take an example, Doncaster North at the 2010 GE. The winning candidate received 19,637 votes, but about 30,900 people on the electoral roll did not vote.
I would void the election and re-open nominations.
A potential problem with this system is that opposition parties could boycott elections in the hope of keeping these seats empty, so I haven't thought it all through.
From the quote I made :- "Yes Rotheram is a scandal, and should be investigated"
Michael Gove would be disappointing in your level of comprehension, Everyone else just accepts your constant misreading of things for what it is.
Eurosceptic Tory MP on Carswell: "What an absolute c**t." Can't find many MPs to say they won't campaign in Clacton.
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/23/russias-humanitarian-invasion/
Russia has put down a public marker that this is unacceptable.
Yes, Labour whips probably did the same as the Tory ones, but they do have an admission of malpractice by the Tory one that the practice was common, and his candor showed that he thought it acceptable.
Con 35%, Lab 34%, UKIP 13%, Lib Dem 8%.
Obviously Pakistani Muslims aren't necessarily more likely to be sex offenders as a whole, no more than comedians or Djs or anyone else, but when large groups of any race or religion live in isolation it is a breeding ground for aggro vs the rest of society. Could have just as easily been Amish Americans had we got mass immigration of them
The recipe for civil strife is a segregated society with the authorities turning a blind eye to one sides grievances, if the Rotherham community was more integrated, it would have been stopped earlier, or more likely never happened at all
To try and defend industrial-scale rape by saying 'look, squirrel' is obscene.
To err may be human but to downplay it belittles you.
In December 2007 Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon told the Scottish Parliament that an independent Scotland would “automatically” become a member state of the European Union, that there would be no need for an independent Scotland to renegotiate EU membership and that this position was supported by both political and legal opinion. Utter fantasy.
http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/scotland-and-the-eu/
He admitted it on tape, and he knew he was being filmed, are you saying he was incompetent and stupid? Or perhaps it was a jest?
The vast majority of actual Asians refer to themsleves as Asians - being the larger group beyond their nationality. (Chinese, Koreans, Japs, Mongolians, Vietnamese, Filippinos, etc). And they refer to those from the sub-continent as specifically Indian or Pakistani or Afghan etc. Actually the Chinese refer to 'YinBa' people - meaning Indian or Pakistani grouped together - as distinct from Asian. The USA also uses this correct classification / distinction. If you are 'Asian' in the US you are what we would probably call Oriental. But Asia is a continent.
The delights that we enjoy from our own 'Asian' community seriously seriously pisses off those who are actually Asian when being referred to as 'Asian'. It's like saying the Holocaust was committed by 'Europeans'.
So let us henceforth refer to gang abuse committed by predominantly P{kistani Muslim men - not to crimes committed by Asian men. Because they weren't.
It's odd. Just as a normal human reaction one would have thought that the Leader of the Opposition would want to say something about what is, however one looks at it, a dreadful scandal covering not just rape but collusion, cover up, suppression of whistleblowers, destruction of files and possible obstruction of investigations, misfeasance in public office etc.
And so the teensiest suspicion is raised that maybe nothing is being said because the fact that it (and other similar cases) happened under a Labour council during a Labour government boasting about all the cultural enrichment from immigration and how much was being spent on public services etc makes it all a tiny bit embarrassing.
If he really wants to pose as a man of courage standing up to vested interests, he should speak out, no matter if this does infuriate Labour councillors or certain types of voters. SO had it right when he said exactly this a few days ago.
If the Labour Party does not stand up for the weak and vulnerable what the hell is it for?
We don't want another Shoesmith situation.
Populus @PopulusPolls · 21s
Latest Populus VI: Lab 34 (-4), Con 35 (+3), LD 8 (=), UKIP 13 (-2), Oth 10 (+3). Tables here: http://popu.lu/s_vi140829
As people on here know all to well (fx: repeated groans), I am in favour of compulsory voting, with 'none of the above' and 'I do not agree with this system' additional options.
People who do not vote are fined a nominal sum (£20?) which goes to charity.
I get the feeling that some posters would rather that this whole subject wasn't talked about and will bring up unrelated issues in an attempt to muddy the waters. I could be completely wrong, but that is how it is coming across to me.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/29/roger-lord-ukip-douglas-carswell_n_5735340.html
Feisty one he is
Says he let his conservative membership lapse because he didn't agree with them anymore, so I can't see how he would stand for them
1) Populus' online polls are the second most volatile polls out there after Lord A's polls
2) This appears to be a reversion to the mean, the last few Populus polls have had Labour on the high side
3) We need more polls, for example, yesterday, Labour's lead trebled with YouGov in one day.
It'd be a bit weird if, as mentioned yesterday by someone else, we had such political cross-dressing going on. The Transvestite Duel of Clacton could be quite entertaining.
Can't wait for the Rotherham effect.
Perhaps more is to emerge. We know about Rotherham because of the Jay report, which was commissioned by the council, incidentally, but there have been similar grooming gangs jailed in other towns.
Burnley to beat Manchester United
Everton to beat Chelsea
Liverpool to beat Spurs, Sterling and Adebayor as FGS
Leicester to beat Arsenal.
My accumulator for Saturday
Citeh, Newcastle, Sunderland, Swansea, Southampton to all win.
And, we have crossover, with Populus.
Con 35%, Lab 34%, UKIP 13%, Lib Dem 8%.
Basil & Tim will be gutted.
The Rotherham report shows that some Labour councillors also blocked real investigation and encouraged a cover-up. Guess what the response from some on here is?
In addition: "Labour has promised to bring in a violence against women and girls bill" (1)
This was in the same week that Barnardos has announced that one-third of child abuse victims are male (2). In addition, a quarter of all victims of domestic violence are male - and this is likely to go underreported (3).
Can anyone defend Labour's sexist viewpoint on this?
(1): http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/28/domestic-violence-yvette-cooper-labour-special-offence
(2): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28935733
(3): http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/abuse/Pages/domestic-violence-against-men.aspx
Sounds scary does it not.
I can't see why he doesn't just wear it. He said on the radio he didn't stand in 2010 because we gave Carswell a free run! But he won't stand aside now?!
I am against people covering up crimes and injustices for their own convenience, and those that willfully ignore them are equally as bad.
The problem I have with the recurring abuse cases is that it is all to easy to blame it on one specific part of a system or group, score a few points, then let the same thing happen in other organizations and places.
People in power are always tempted to abuse that power, our defence is supposed to be our judicial system and police.
It would appear that they have an equal amount of corruption and self interest as the rest of our institutions and businesses, while they all preach morality towards the general population.
Unless we understand this, we will stumble on in our broken and disjointed way to the next scandal.
Only SO has had the courage, as a Labour poster, to criticise his own party over this. Others could learn from him.
The first thing is that the enquiry will have very wide terms of reference and be required to look at the problem on a national basis. This ensures that it will take years but still not get to grips with the wrong doing of individuals. Meanwhile, those who are up to their necks in the cover-ups and obfuscations and just ignoring the evidence presented to them will gradually retire, on full pensions of course, or move on to other, equally well remunerated, public sector jobs. Local investigations which might get to the truth about the guilty will be hampered or even not started because it would be "inappropriate whilst the national enquiry is sitting". After several years the national enquiry will issue its report, which will say that terrible crimes happened and were allowed to happen, systemic failures, lessons have been learned and issue a list of recommendations. Everyone will nod sagely, the government of the day will introduce another act requiring "inter-agency cooperation" (always popular in these matters).
How many times have we been down this route in the last forty years? Inter-agency cooperation is a recipe to ensure that nobody is responsible but everyone can point to the case conferences they have been to and the concerns they expressed.
There is in the Telegraph today clear allegations that named people surpressed and destroyed evidence of crimes and tried, possibly with some success, to get a report re-wrtitten in a more favourable light. That is a fairly straightforward allegation of criminal conduct by people whose names are know. So get another police force in (South Yorks are clearly unfit to investigate) and investigate. Doesn't need a judge or a national enquiry or any other damn thing other than someone in power saying get on with it.
Lots of complaints in here this morning about the Leader of the Opposition not saying anything about what has gone on. Fair enough, but I am not reading too much about the Home Secretary actually doing anything.
George Eustice's vote in the Commons (Majority 66) is worth the same as Jonathan Djanogly's (Majority 10,819) for example.
Secondly, you slightly misunderstand my off-the-cuff proposal, which would operate on the absolute number of votes, rather than vote shares - to be elected a person would have to receive more votes than abstentions, as well as more votes than any other candidate, thus dealing with your latter scenario.
I dislike compulsory voting - rather the electoral system should incentivise higher turnouts, which it does not do at present.
Mr. Lord should know very well that he can't be the candidate if the local MP switches sides.
LAB 317 CON 288 LD 17 Other 28 EICIMinPM
Foreign country sets your rates, and you have no lender of last resort to back up deposits or financial institutions.
As the eurozone has shown us, one currency for varying countries does not work, because no one interest rate can work for divergent economies. Of course, Scotland could go for sterlingisation without UK approval or agreement, but why not go for a Scottish pound instead? Then you actually get independence, and can set your own rates, as well as having a lender of last resort.