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  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Carnyx said:

    It would do Dave no harm at all to kick big business in the nuts for once and play the people decide card.

    He was unaccountably reluctant to let the Scots do that, as you may recall*. There was someone on this site who made the prediction that in many ways the Indyref was going to be a rehearsal for the Brexit (or, as things may be, EWNIexit) referendum. Very perceptive.

    *until things had got to the stage where they would declare their own referendum and if need be UDI
    Unfortunately he won't. It would do him no harm though!
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Hugh said:

    Socrates said:

    Oh look, a 2011 article in the Guardian, having a go at the Times for "dubious claims about Muslim men grooming white girls":

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jan/07/grooming-racialising-crime-tradition

    The guardian needs to take a f**king long look at itself. For years now its downplayed this, and played dangerously with accusing all and sundry of racism (Clarkson, Meerkats, Thomas the tank engine et al). It's helped create this atmosphere, and it should now review what it posted, especially in CiF
    So far the blame lies with Labour, political correctness, the Guardian and immigrants (natch).

    If we could somehow shoehorn in the BBC, people on benefits and the EU we'd have a full house!

    Great that we're taking this grave matter seriously rather than using it to score cheap political points huh.
    I just posted a clear link showing how the Guardian attacked the people investigating this, and somehow criticising the Guardian is is "scoring cheap political points".

    It's like Silvio Berlusconi complaining that all the attacks on him were just partisan smears from the Communists. You're doing exactly the same thing.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @dyedwoolie
    Are you suggesting that Labour Politicians are in league with child abusers?
    We need an immediate inquiry into these goings on in our ruling classes.
    The possibility of child molesters in government is something that needs looking into urgently.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Smarmeron said:

    @Socratese
    I must have missed your reply on child/arranged marriages in Europe from the sixth century to more "modern" times.
    Could you re-enlighten me?

    I missed the question. Feel free to repeat.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,447
    Can I talk about Clacton? I think 10/1 for Labour is far too pessimistic. The question is: is Clacton another Lincoln 1973 (Labour MP defects and triggers a by-election; wins by taking votes from both main parties) or another Mitcham & Morden 1982 (Labour MP defects and triggers a by-election; Labour vote split and Conservatives come through the middle to win)?

    Labour's vote share has been static or gone up in nearly every by-election of this Parliament. They even put on vote share (just) in Eastleigh when fourth position should have seen them squeezed. If Labour can hold its 2010 vote and take much of the LibDem vote, then they're well-placed to come through the middle of a Con/UKIP split vote and win.

    This of course presumes that Labour don't do a Newark and fail to put up a fight.

    In Lincoln, Tavener left his party to move to the centre. Carswell has left his party to move to the right. Tavener was able to pick up votes from Conservative, Labour and Liberal. Carswell could face anti-UKIP tactical voting. So I don't think this is another Lincoln. (Of course, it's probably not another Mitcham & Morden, which took place during the Falklands War... although given Russia's de facto invasion of Ukraine, maybe World War III will have broken out by the time the by-election is held.)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Mr. Eagles, that seems slightly peculiar.

    I hope next week's episode remembers to have a coherent plot. Rather liked Capaldi's cantankerous exchanges with Clara.

    He's a proper old school Doctor
    Daleks tomorrow too

    Cant wait I like Capaldis Dr Maybe I am too old.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited August 2014
    @You were talking about a child bride marriage to the prophet, I was merely asking what were the views in Europe at that time in our history.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Smarmeron said:

    @dyedwoolie
    Are you suggesting that Labour Politicians are in league with child abusers?
    We need an immediate inquiry into these goings on in our ruling classes.
    The possibility of child molesters in government is something that needs looking into urgently.

    Local Labour politicians actively tried to interfere with the inquiry in Rotherham, and the woman carrying out the inquiry included this in the report.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Carnyx said:

    saddened said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    What do they know in England?

    Academic study: bigger firms could leave iScotland if currency deal fails

    MAJOR Scottish companies will quit the country if post-Yes talks even start to suggest a currency union will not materialise, according to an independent survey.

    Several "larger PLCs" would move their headquarters south of the Border as soon as they felt the "direction of travel" in separation negotiations would hurt the pound or put up barriers to trading, the Edinburgh University study found.


    Oops! Edinburgh......

    Has nobody on this site noticed that Mr Cameron was berated at the infamous illegal-when-planned dinner in Glasgow, and by the CBI no less, for his chaos over Brexit? (Or EWNIexit as the case may be.)

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/cameron-humiliated-as-cbi-chief-attacks-eu-vote-plan.25180163

    Yes, Dave was in receipt of two rather unhelpful interventions yesterday - tho I believe some suggested that while no one would believe the CBI on the UK, magically they would on the EU. Odd that.....
    Well, you might want to consider the closeness of the links between the CBI's members and the London and Edinburgh governments respectively, and consider whose choke collar is having the lead yanked.

    I see that US companies are already moving to Dublin, BTW. A Scotland in the EU and EWNI out of it could be very interesting.

    How long will it take Scotland to become an EU member exactly?
    Given the most recent reports from the EU, after Mr Camron;s chum left, in time for indy day (in a sense it is already a member, as a constituent nation of the UK). The tone has changed very noticeably from the EU end, and the No campaign seem to have shut up about it also very noticeably.

    Any links?

    Agreeing a treaty of accession, let alone getting it through 27 Parliaments by March 2016 may be, as Sir Humphrey might say, "ambitious".......and then there's the parliament that you've refused to pay your share of debt to......
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Smarmeron said:

    @dyedwoolie
    Are you suggesting that Labour Politicians are in league with child abusers?
    We need an immediate inquiry into these goings on in our ruling classes.
    The possibility of child molesters in government is something that needs looking into urgently.

    The labour council, labour head of child services and labour etc etc etc are complicit, you don't need to be 'in league' to be complicit.
    And yes, we do.
    All the sacred cows need to burn. I just fancy Labour first, given they are the worst of the bunch.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Owls, one hopes they don't bugger it up, though.

    A parliament of daleks was just ridiculous. Do they hold by-elections? Have a dalek Chancellor of the Exchequer? A Lord High Exterminator?
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Another day of deafening silence from spineless Ed Miliband, on the sexual abuse of 1200 in Rotherham.

    Do votes matter more than children?

    A number of commentators here have suggested that this is too important an issue for a partisan approach. I look forward to your explanation as to why we are wrong and you are right.

    Surely a non-partisan approach would mean a thorough condemnation from all party leaders and a pledge to work together to address all the issues?

    Instead Miliband is silent on this. It's disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself.
    Choosing to delegate is a sign of strength of leadership.It's easier when he has trusted able deputies like Yvette Cooper.

    http://press.labour.org.uk/post/95836716929/rotherham-abuse-inquiry-response-from-yvette-cooper
    Yes, Ed Milband delegates his comments and press releases unless it's truly important stuff like Tory defections, the Scottish referendum and, um, the death of Richard Attenborough:

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband

    I can never work out whether Labour posters on here are knowingly spinning a line about this stuff or genuinely have their head in the sand.
    You cannot expect the Labour leader to dance to Ukip's tune.That's David Cameron's job.
    Condemning what has happened in Rotherham and pledging to do something about it is not dancing to UKIPs tune. It should be politics 101.

    People are upset about something - you make sure it's out there in the news that you are upset about it too.

    Miliband showed that he knows this when he went walkabouts during the flooding last winter.
    It's an important aspect of leadership not to commentate on the 24 hr. media cycle like Cameron does but to give considered,not knee-jerk, responses.


  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Smarmeron said:

    @dyedwoolie
    Are you suggesting that Labour Politicians are in league with child abusers?
    We need an immediate inquiry into these goings on in our ruling classes.
    The possibility of child molesters in government is something that needs looking into urgently.

    Government no. Rotherham council ?...well that needs investigation doesn't it.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Hugh,

    Are you suggesting that political correctness (or racial sensitivity, if you prefer) did not play a part?

    Many Labour supporters, to their credit, do admit this. And it did no favours to the innocent (by far the majority) in the Pakistan community who are now being viewed with suspicion.

    You can't complain if you "own" PC. You gain in the same way, because you "own" the NHS.

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Socrates said:

    Hugh said:

    Socrates said:

    Oh look, a 2011 article in the Guardian, having a go at the Times for "dubious claims about Muslim men grooming white girls":

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jan/07/grooming-racialising-crime-tradition

    The guardian needs to take a f**king long look at itself. For years now its downplayed this, and played dangerously with accusing all and sundry of racism (Clarkson, Meerkats, Thomas the tank engine et al). It's helped create this atmosphere, and it should now review what it posted, especially in CiF
    So far the blame lies with Labour, political correctness, the Guardian and immigrants (natch).

    If we could somehow shoehorn in the BBC, people on benefits and the EU we'd have a full house!

    Great that we're taking this grave matter seriously rather than using it to score cheap political points huh.
    I just posted a clear link showing how the Guardian attacked the people investigating this, and somehow criticising the Guardian is is "scoring cheap political points".

    It's like Silvio Berlusconi complaining that all the attacks on him were just partisan smears from the Communists. You're doing exactly the same thing.
    Were all dirty racists don't ya know? Anger is a sign of racism. Asking questions, that's racist. Wanting heads to roll, racist.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    A choice quote from that Libby Brooks article:

    "By building an apparent consensus of voices "bravely" speaking out in the face of accusations of racism, it becomes that much harder for a figure from within the Muslim community to offer a more nuanced perspective or indeed state that these allegations are simply not true. The inevitable and distorting consequence of framing the debate around a "conspiracy of silence" is that it effectively shuts down or taints as mealy-mouthed any criticism.

    The efforts of the Times to stand up this investigation are certainly considerable: selectively quoting or misquoting some groups, and inventing a category of "on-street grooming" that does not exist in law and was not recognised by any of the agencies I spoke to. It is also worth asking how responsible it is to provide ammunition to the violent racist extremists already active in these areas on such flawed evidence."

    What an appalling woman.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Peter, I fear you're being a silly sausage.

    Miliband has tweeted about Carswell's defection. He has not about the 1,400 victims.

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband
  • HughHugh Posts: 955

    Can I talk about Clacton? I think 10/1 for Labour is far too pessimistic. The question is: is Clacton another Lincoln 1973 (Labour MP defects and triggers a by-election; wins by taking votes from both main parties) or another Mitcham & Morden 1982 (Labour MP defects and triggers a by-election; Labour vote split and Conservatives come through the middle to win)?

    Labour's vote share has been static or gone up in nearly every by-election of this Parliament. They even put on vote share (just) in Eastleigh when fourth position should have seen them squeezed. If Labour can hold its 2010 vote and take much of the LibDem vote, then they're well-placed to come through the middle of a Con/UKIP split vote and win.

    This of course presumes that Labour don't do a Newark and fail to put up a fight.

    In Lincoln, Tavener left his party to move to the centre. Carswell has left his party to move to the right. Tavener was able to pick up votes from Conservative, Labour and Liberal. Carswell could face anti-UKIP tactical voting. So I don't think this is another Lincoln. (Of course, it's probably not another Mitcham & Morden, which took place during the Falklands War... although given Russia's de facto invasion of Ukraine, maybe World War III will have broken out by the time the by-election is held.)

    Hark at you, sullying political betting with your talk of politics and betting!

    That was my initial thought too. The raw numbers would appear to give Labour a very good chance.

    I don't think the political dynamics do though. And as you say, there's every chance they'll just put their feet up and get then popcorn in rather than having a go. I'd be tempted at a bit longer than 10/1 mind.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited August 2014
    @Socrates
    "Local Labour politicians actively tried to interfere with the inquiry in Rotherham"
    Evidence went missing, and files were lost? Perhaps we could get the brother/sister of some of those involved to chair an investigation into the matter, and if anyone objects, we can sweep it under the carpet till a better time.
    Perhaps Dave could give pointers on how to do it?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Can I talk about Clacton? I think 10/1 for Labour is far too pessimistic. The question is: is Clacton another Lincoln 1973 (Labour MP defects and triggers a by-election; wins by taking votes from both main parties) or another Mitcham & Morden 1982 (Labour MP defects and triggers a by-election; Labour vote split and Conservatives come through the middle to win)?

    Labour's vote share has been static or gone up in nearly every by-election of this Parliament. They even put on vote share (just) in Eastleigh when fourth position should have seen them squeezed. If Labour can hold its 2010 vote and take much of the LibDem vote, then they're well-placed to come through the middle of a Con/UKIP split vote and win.

    This of course presumes that Labour don't do a Newark and fail to put up a fight.

    In Lincoln, Tavener left his party to move to the centre. Carswell has left his party to move to the right. Tavener was able to pick up votes from Conservative, Labour and Liberal. Carswell could face anti-UKIP tactical voting. So I don't think this is another Lincoln. (Of course, it's probably not another Mitcham & Morden, which took place during the Falklands War... although given Russia's de facto invasion of Ukraine, maybe World War III will have broken out by the time the by-election is held.)

    Ukip won the euros by almost 10,000 in Clacton, and now they have the incumbent MP standing for them.... I think it takes a great leap of faith to think those who voted ukip in the euros are not more likely to do so again now
  • saddened said:

    What ?

    Doctor Who ‘lesbian-lizard’ kiss will not face investigation

    Six viewers complained that scene from Peter Capaldi’s first full episode as the Doctor was ‘gratuitous’ and ‘unneccessary’

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/aug/28/doctor-who-lesbian-lizard-kiss-peter-capaldi

    With your critics hat on what did you think of the episode? I fell asleep and couldn't raise enough interest to look it up on I player to see the end.
    I like Peter Capaldi's Doctor, I liked the Doctor's interaction with Clare, yet I found the episode underwhelming and a bit flat.

    Which is odd, as the first episodes of a Doctor in New Who have been generally fab.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Smarmeron said:

    @Socrates
    "Local Labour politicians actively tried to interfere with the inquiry in Rotherham"
    Evidence went missing, and files were lost? Perhaps we could get the brother/sister of some of those involved to chair an investigation into the matter, and if anyone objects, we can sweep it under the carpet till a better time.
    Perhaps Dave could give pointers on how to do it?

    A senior officer stated that councillors of Pakistani-heritage acted as "barriers" in the investigation.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Isam, whilst a good starting point, don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

    I voted UKIP in the euros. There's very nearly a 0% chance of me doing so at the General Election.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Smarmeron said:

    @dyedwoolie
    Are you suggesting that Labour Politicians are in league with child abusers?
    We need an immediate inquiry into these goings on in our ruling classes.
    The possibility of child molesters in government is something that needs looking into urgently.

    Government no. Rotherham council ?...well that needs investigation doesn't it.
    MacShane admitted yesterday he shied away from investigating and should have done more. The rot goes into parliament.
  • Anorak said:

    Gadfly said:

    It seems somewhat ironic that an independent Scotland using sterlingisation, may have to say goodbye to its banknotes, and use the ones printed by the Bank of England instead.

    Imagine the amusement to be had by putting Thatcher on the back of the £10 note.
    And Edward Longshanks!
    Replace all the edge inscriptions on the pound coin with "Malleus Scotorum"
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Smarmeron said:

    @Socrates
    "Local Labour politicians actively tried to interfere with the inquiry in Rotherham"
    Evidence went missing, and files were lost? Perhaps we could get the brother/sister of some of those involved to chair an investigation into the matter, and if anyone objects, we can sweep it under the carpet till a better time.
    Perhaps Dave could give pointers on how to do it?

    Ah, smearing Butler-Sloss. Class.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Anorak said:

    Gadfly said:

    It seems somewhat ironic that an independent Scotland using sterlingisation, may have to say goodbye to its banknotes, and use the ones printed by the Bank of England instead.

    Imagine the amusement to be had by putting Thatcher on the back of the £10 note.
    And perhaps something to remind us of another Scottish last leap into the dark, namely the Darien Scheme, to which I can see certain parallels...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Slackbladder
    Yes, it does need investigation, but there seems to be a lack of suitable people who can do it.
    We already have an investigation "pending" on a possibly related matter.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Another day of deafening silence from spineless Ed Miliband, on the sexual abuse of 1200 in Rotherham.

    Do votes matter more than children?

    A number of commentators here have suggested that this is too important an issue for a partisan approach. I look forward to your explanation as to why we are wrong and you are right.

    Surely a non-partisan approach would mean a thorough condemnation from all party leaders and a pledge to work together to address all the issues?

    Instead Miliband is silent on this. It's disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself.
    Choosing to delegate is a sign of strength of leadership.It's easier when he has trusted able deputies like Yvette Cooper.

    http://press.labour.org.uk/post/95836716929/rotherham-abuse-inquiry-response-from-yvette-cooper
    Yes, Ed Milband delegates his comments and press releases unless it's truly important stuff like Tory defections, the Scottish referendum and, um, the death of Richard Attenborough:

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband

    I can never work out whether Labour posters on here are knowingly spinning a line about this stuff or genuinely have their head in the sand.
    You cannot expect the Labour leader to dance to Ukip's tune.That's David Cameron's job.
    Condemning what has happened in Rotherham and pledging to do something about it is not dancing to UKIPs tune. It should be politics 101.

    People are upset about something - you make sure it's out there in the news that you are upset about it too.

    Miliband showed that he knows this when he went walkabouts during the flooding last winter.
    It's an important aspect of leadership not to commentate on the 24 hr. media cycle like Cameron does but to give considered,not knee-jerk, responses.


    Thank God Ed Miliband doesn't comment on the 24 hr media cycle:

    Ed Miliband @Ed_Miliband · Aug 25
    Alistair Darling showed once again tonight that Alex Salmond has absolutely no answers on key questions around independence. #BetterTogether

    Ed Miliband @Ed_Miliband · Aug 25
    The death of Richard Attenborough is a sad day for the film world and the Labour movement. He and his work will be remembered.

  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    saddened said:

    What ?

    Doctor Who ‘lesbian-lizard’ kiss will not face investigation

    Six viewers complained that scene from Peter Capaldi’s first full episode as the Doctor was ‘gratuitous’ and ‘unneccessary’

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/aug/28/doctor-who-lesbian-lizard-kiss-peter-capaldi

    With your critics hat on what did you think of the episode? I fell asleep and couldn't raise enough interest to look it up on I player to see the end.
    I like Peter Capaldi's Doctor, I liked the Doctor's interaction with Clare, yet I found the episode underwhelming and a bit flat.

    Which is odd, as the first episodes of a Doctor in New Who have been generally fab.
    Pretty much my thoughts (on the bits I stayed awake for), hopefully it'll pick up.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited August 2014

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Another day of deafening silence from spineless Ed Miliband, on the sexual abuse of 1200 in Rotherham.

    Do votes matter more than children?

    A number of commentators here have suggested that this is too important an issue for a partisan approach. I look forward to your explanation as to why we are wrong and you are right.

    Surely a non-partisan approach would mean a thorough condemnation from all party leaders and a pledge to work together to address all the issues?

    Instead Miliband is silent on this. It's disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself.
    Choosing to delegate is a sign of strength of leadership.It's easier when he has trusted able deputies like Yvette Cooper.

    http://press.labour.org.uk/post/95836716929/rotherham-abuse-inquiry-response-from-yvette-cooper
    Yes, Ed Milband delegates his comments and press releases unless it's truly important stuff like Tory defections, the Scottish referendum and, um, the death of Richard Attenborough:

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband

    I can never work out whether Labour posters on here are knowingly spinning a line about this stuff or genuinely have their head in the sand.
    You cannot expect the Labour leader to dance to Ukip's tune.That's David Cameron's job.
    Condemning what has happened in Rotherham and pledging to do something about it is not dancing to UKIPs tune. It should be politics 101.

    People are upset about something - you make sure it's out there in the news that you are upset about it too.

    Miliband showed that he knows this when he went walkabouts during the flooding last winter.
    It's an important aspect of leadership not to commentate on the 24 hr. media cycle like Cameron does but to give considered,not knee-jerk, responses.


    Yes, of course it is.

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband

    Maybe someone has set up a spoof account.
  • Mr. Eagles, that seems slightly peculiar.

    I hope next week's episode remembers to have a coherent plot. Rather liked Capaldi's cantankerous exchanges with Clara.

    He's a proper old school Doctor
    Daleks tomorrow too

    Cant wait I like Capaldis Dr Maybe I am too old.
    We need more Slitheen.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Hugh said:

    Can I talk about Clacton? I think 10/1 for Labour is far too pessimistic. The question is: is Clacton another Lincoln 1973 (Labour MP defects and triggers a by-election; wins by taking votes from both main parties) or another Mitcham & Morden 1982 (Labour MP defects and triggers a by-election; Labour vote split and Conservatives come through the middle to win)?

    Labour's vote share has been static or gone up in nearly every by-election of this Parliament. They even put on vote share (just) in Eastleigh when fourth position should have seen them squeezed. If Labour can hold its 2010 vote and take much of the LibDem vote, then they're well-placed to come through the middle of a Con/UKIP split vote and win.

    This of course presumes that Labour don't do a Newark and fail to put up a fight.

    In Lincoln, Tavener left his party to move to the centre. Carswell has left his party to move to the right. Tavener was able to pick up votes from Conservative, Labour and Liberal. Carswell could face anti-UKIP tactical voting. So I don't think this is another Lincoln. (Of course, it's probably not another Mitcham & Morden, which took place during the Falklands War... although given Russia's de facto invasion of Ukraine, maybe World War III will have broken out by the time the by-election is held.)

    Hark at you, sullying political betting with your talk of politics and betting!

    That was my initial thought too. The raw numbers would appear to give Labour a very good chance.

    I don't think the political dynamics do though. And as you say, there's every chance they'll just put their feet up and get then popcorn in rather than having a go. I'd be tempted at a bit longer than 10/1 mind.
    I put a couple of quid on at 32:1 on Labour at Betfair.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Faisal Islam (@faisalislam)
    29/08/2014 10:42
    Ukip treasurer Stuart wheeler has told @SkyNews there are two other Conservative MPs considering defection to UKIP. Interview coming up..
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,336

    Carnyx said:

    saddened said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    What do they know in England?

    Academic study: bigger firms could leave iScotland if currency deal fails

    MAJOR Scottish companies will quit the country if post-Yes talks even start to suggest a currency union will not materialise, according to an independent survey.

    Several "larger PLCs" would move their headquarters south of the Border as soon as they felt the "direction of travel" in separation negotiations would hurt the pound or put up barriers to trading, the Edinburgh University study found.


    Oops! Edinburgh......

    Has nobody on this site noticed that Mr Cameron was berated at the infamous illegal-when-planned dinner in Glasgow, and by the CBI no less, for his chaos over Brexit? (Or EWNIexit as the case may be.)

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/cameron-humiliated-as-cbi-chief-attacks-eu-vote-plan.25180163

    Yes, Dave was in receipt of two rather unhelpful interventions yesterday - tho I believe some suggested that while no one would believe the CBI on the UK, magically they would on the EU. Odd that.....
    Well, you might want to consider the closeness of the links between the CBI's members and the London and Edinburgh governments respectively, and consider whose choke collar is having the lead yanked.

    I see that US companies are already moving to Dublin, BTW. A Scotland in the EU and EWNI out of it could be very interesting.

    How long will it take Scotland to become an EU member exactly?
    Given the most recent reports from the EU, after Mr Camron;s chum left, in time for indy day (in a sense it is already a member, as a constituent nation of the UK). The tone has changed very noticeably from the EU end, and the No campaign seem to have shut up about it also very noticeably.

    Any links?

    Agreeing a treaty of accession, let alone getting it through 27 Parliaments by March 2016 may be, as Sir Humphrey might say, "ambitious".......and then there's the parliament that you've refused to pay your share of debt to......
    Have to go out, genuinely, sorry - but much of it is a negative which I cannot therefore prove, obviously, and the rest you will be familiar with. If you need to refresh your memory on what has been a loooong campaign, you could check out the Wee Blue Book on wingsoverscotland.com - I am sure it will have germane facts (from the unionist side) and comment, and almost certainly the necessary references.

    As for failue to pay the debt, (a) there is no such thing now the Treasury has spoken, and (b) it would only happen if EWNI had welshed in the first place.

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TheWatcher
    Out of all our highly paid judges, we only had one suitable to chair an inquiry into our politicians? It is unfortunate that her relationship to one of the people who may or may not have been involved seems to have torpedoed it, and that there is no other replacement available.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What a long and very sorry list. That's a fleet of icebergs.
    Socrates said:

    My God - it's even worse than I thought:

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-grooming-gangs/18739?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    Updating the list to include more recent convictions that fit the same pattern, we find that there have been at least 27 similar cases in the last decade.

    By date of conviction, we have evidence of such exploitation taking place in Keighley (2005 and 2013), Blackpool (2006), Oldham (2007 and 2008), Blackburn (2007, 2008 and 2009), Sheffield (2008), Manchester (2008 and 2013) Skipton (2009), Rochdale (two cases in 2010, one in 2012 and another in 2013), Nelson (2010), Preston (2010) Rotherham (2010) Derby (2010), Telford (2012), Bradford (2012), Ipswich (2013), Birmingham (2013), Oxford (2013), Barking (2013) and Peterborough (2013).

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,447
    isam said:

    Ukip won the euros by almost 10,000 in Clacton, and now they have the incumbent MP standing for them.... I think it takes a great leap of faith to think those who voted ukip in the euros are not more likely to do so again now

    People clearly do not vote the same way in Euro-elections and Westminster elections. And turnout will surely be higher in the by-election.

    To say UKIP have an incumbent MP is misleading. He was elected as a Tory.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    isam said:

    Faisal Islam (@faisalislam)
    29/08/2014 10:42
    Ukip treasurer Stuart wheeler has told @SkyNews there are two other Conservative MPs considering defection to UKIP. Interview coming up..

    That's good news. It's six fewer than the last time he flew this particular kite, appears that UKIP is losing its appeal to potential ship jumpers.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Mr. Eagles, that seems slightly peculiar.

    I hope next week's episode remembers to have a coherent plot. Rather liked Capaldi's cantankerous exchanges with Clara.

    He's a proper old school Doctor
    Daleks tomorrow too

    Cant wait I like Capaldis Dr Maybe I am too old.
    We need more Slitheen.
    Gordon Brown was one of the Slitheen in Eccleston's encounter with them at number ten.
    He thought the Beeb were filming a documentary.
    Yep, it's a GB is fat and evil comment.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited August 2014
    Carnyx said:



    Have to go out, genuinely, sorry - but much of it is a negative which I cannot therefore prove, obviously, and the rest you will be familiar with. If you need to refresh your memory on what has been a loooong campaign, you could check out the Wee Blue Book on wingsoverscotland.com - I am sure it will have germane facts (from the unionist side) and comment, and almost certainly the necessary references.

    As for failue to pay the debt, (a) there is no such thing now the Treasury has spoken, and (b) it would only happen if EWNI had welshed in the first place.

    Well, here's Professor Tomkins:

    http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/scotland-and-the-eu/

    I see you adopt the Swinney approach that the other side won't mind on the debt....good luck with that! When has rUK ever been asked if it wanted a currency union?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited August 2014
    isam said:

    Faisal Islam (@faisalislam)
    29/08/2014 10:42
    Ukip treasurer Stuart wheeler has told @SkyNews there are two other Conservative MPs considering defection to UKIP. Interview coming up..

    Mr Bone and Mad Nad. Go on, jump.

    Doesn't say much for Wheelers dining company skills
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Mr. Isam, whilst a good starting point, don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

    I voted UKIP in the euros. There's very nearly a 0% chance of me doing so at the General Election.

    Ok!

    I'm trying to look at it objectively. My initial thought was 1/4 ukip was the right price. Would have backed all I could at 4/6 if paddy let me

    Someone is trying to have a grand at 1.3 on betfair, so if you don't fancy it lay away!

    Clacton isn't a Tory stronghold, Carswell was a popular mp, Goodwin and Ford have it as #1 in ukip friendly seats,

    Prices seem about right to me

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2014
    I hope one of our many lurking journalists nails her for it.

    I still can't quite get over how blase Denis MacShane was about it and even seemed perversely proud that his liberal Left credentials wouldn't allow him to acknowledge what was going on his in OWN constituency.
    Socrates said:

    A choice quote from that Libby Brooks article:

    "By building an apparent consensus of voices "bravely" speaking out in the face of accusations of racism, it becomes that much harder for a figure from within the Muslim community to offer a more nuanced perspective or indeed state that these allegations are simply not true. The inevitable and distorting consequence of framing the debate around a "conspiracy of silence" is that it effectively shuts down or taints as mealy-mouthed any criticism.

    The efforts of the Times to stand up this investigation are certainly considerable: selectively quoting or misquoting some groups, and inventing a category of "on-street grooming" that does not exist in law and was not recognised by any of the agencies I spoke to. It is also worth asking how responsible it is to provide ammunition to the violent racist extremists already active in these areas on such flawed evidence."

    What an appalling woman.

  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    isam said:

    Faisal Islam (@faisalislam)
    29/08/2014 10:42
    Ukip treasurer Stuart wheeler has told @SkyNews there are two other Conseervative MPs considering defection to UKIP. Interview coming up..

    Nadine Dorries and Owen Paterson?

  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Good morning all and firstly congratulations to the LibDems on their convincing hold in Newcastle yesterday. Should keep OGH and Mark Senior on good form until the next time they get a thumping.

    Really don't know what to make of the Clacton episode yesterday. I suppose strategically as a Tory I should either want the By-election Tory candidate to beat Douglas Carswell but maybe the best thing is for him to split the vote and temporarily let Labour snatch the seat. That would make it clear Vote Kipper Get Ed the Bland one in No 10.

    Well 3 weeks from now we will know the result of the IndyRef thank goodness.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915

    Mr. Eagles, that seems slightly peculiar.

    I hope next week's episode remembers to have a coherent plot. Rather liked Capaldi's cantankerous exchanges with Clara.

    He's a proper old school Doctor
    Daleks tomorrow too

    Cant wait I like Capaldis Dr Maybe I am too old.
    We need more Slitheen.
    Guys to me the word Capaldis will always mean Italian home made ice cream :)
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Socrates

    'My God - it's even worse than I thought:

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-grooming-gangs/18739?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    Fear not, Ed is waiting for PMQ's next Wednesday to call for a judge led public inquiry..
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Another day of deafening silence from spineless Ed Miliband, on the sexual abuse of 1200 in Rotherham.

    Do votes matter more than children?

    A number of commentators here have suggested that this is too important an issue for a partisan approach. I look forward to your explanation as to why we are wrong and you are right.

    Surely a non-partisan approach would mean a thorough condemnation from all party leaders and a pledge to work together to address all the issues?

    Instead Miliband is silent on this. It's disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself.
    Choosing to delegate is a sign of strength of leadership.It's easier when he has trusted able deputies like Yvette Cooper.

    http://press.labour.org.uk/post/95836716929/rotherham-abuse-inquiry-response-from-yvette-cooper
    Yes, Ed Milband delegates his comments and press releases unless it's truly important stuff like Tory defections, the Scottish referendum and, um, the death of Richard Attenborough:

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband

    I can never work out whether Labour posters on here are knowingly spinning a line about this stuff or genuinely have their head in the sand.
    You cannot expect the Labour leader to dance to Ukip's tune.That's David Cameron's job.
    Condemning what has happened in Rotherham and pledging to do something about it is not dancing to UKIPs tune. It should be politics 101.

    People are upset about something - you make sure it's out there in the news that you are upset about it too.

    Miliband showed that he knows this when he went walkabouts during the flooding last winter.
    It's an important aspect of leadership not to commentate on the 24 hr. media cycle like Cameron does but to give considered,not knee-jerk, responses.


    Yes, of course it is.

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband

    Maybe someone has set up a spoof account.
    An over-zealous response to this important matter would indicate negligence.





  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Abolish Rotherham council and have its functions taken over by central government.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Completely O/t but I'm a bit taken aback about this.

    I've just received a letter from the council where I rented a property about 10 years ago. Apparently the property was wrongly banded and I am due a refund! Nice, however I phoned the council and asked about interest on the 'loan' I've effectively given the council for 10 years and was told that interest is not payable and that there is legislation to that effect.

    Where else is there that enshrines in law that you have to loan money interest free for 10 years?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Another day of deafening silence from spineless Ed Miliband, on the sexual abuse of 1200 in Rotherham.

    Do votes matter more than children?

    A number of commentators here have suggested that this is too important an issue for a partisan approach. I look forward to your explanation as to why we are wrong and you are right.

    Surely a non-partisan approach would mean a thorough condemnation from all party leaders and a pledge to work together to address all the issues?

    Instead Miliband is silent on this. It's disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself.
    Choosing to delegate is a sign of strength of leadership.It's easier when he has trusted able deputies like Yvette Cooper.

    http://press.labour.org.uk/post/95836716929/rotherham-abuse-inquiry-response-from-yvette-cooper
    Yes, Ed Milband delegates his comments and press releases unless it's truly important stuff like Tory defections, the Scottish referendum and, um, the death of Richard Attenborough:

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband

    I can never work out whether Labour posters on here are knowingly spinning a line about this stuff or genuinely have their head in the sand.
    You cannot expect the Labour leader to dance to Ukip's tune.That's David Cameron's job.
    Condemning what has happened in Rotherham and pledging to do something about it is not dancing to UKIPs tune. It should be politics 101.

    People are upset about something - you make sure it's out there in the news that you are upset about it too.

    Miliband showed that he knows this when he went walkabouts during the flooding last winter.
    It's an important aspect of leadership not to commentate on the 24 hr. media cycle like Cameron does but to give considered,not knee-jerk, responses.


    Yes, of course it is.

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband

    Maybe someone has set up a spoof account.
    An over-zealous response to this important matter would indicate negligence.





    Or maybe turning a blind eye would indicate negligence
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Blue_rog said:

    Completely O/t but I'm a bit taken aback about this.

    I've just received a letter from the council where I rented a property about 10 years ago. Apparently the property was wrongly banded and I am due a refund! Nice, however I phoned the council and asked about interest on the 'loan' I've effectively given the council for 10 years and was told that interest is not payable and that there is legislation to that effect.

    Where else is there that enshrines in law that you have to loan money interest free for 10 years?

    The student loan system. They don't tell you that you've finished paying your loan until the beginning of the next academic year. So you'll quite often continue to make payments out of your pay check to the student loan company for months after you've already paid your loan. And no interest is received when you eventually get it back (which you have to apply for - not automatic).
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @dyedwoolie
    If Ed won't call for an inquiry, then someone with a higher authority should....
    Now, who could that be I wonder?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Another day of deafening silence from spineless Ed Miliband, on the sexual abuse of 1200 in Rotherham.

    Do votes matter more than children?

    A number of commentators here have suggested that this is too important an issue for a partisan approach. I look forward to your explanation as to why we are wrong and you are right.

    Surely a non-partisan approach would mean a thorough condemnation from all party leaders and a pledge to work together to address all the issues?

    Instead Miliband is silent on this. It's disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself.
    Choosing to delegate is a sign of strength of leadership.It's easier when he has trusted able deputies like Yvette Cooper.

    http://press.labour.org.uk/post/95836716929/rotherham-abuse-inquiry-response-from-yvette-cooper
    Yes, Ed Milband delegates his comments and press releases unless it's truly important stuff like Tory defections, the Scottish referendum and, um, the death of Richard Attenborough:

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband

    I can never work out whether Labour posters on here are knowingly spinning a line about this stuff or genuinely have their head in the sand.
    You cannot expect the Labour leader to dance to Ukip's tune.That's David Cameron's job.
    Condemning what has happened in Rotherham and pledging to do something about it is not dancing to UKIPs tune. It should be politics 101.

    People are upset about something - you make sure it's out there in the news that you are upset about it too.

    Miliband showed that he knows this when he went walkabouts during the flooding last winter.
    It's an important aspect of leadership not to commentate on the 24 hr. media cycle like Cameron does but to give considered,not knee-jerk, responses.
    I hope that you're a Tory plant trying to make Labour people look bad.

    The Rotherham report has been in the public domain for several days now. Plenty of time for Miliband to read the whole thing and give a considered response.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Ukip won the euros by almost 10,000 in Clacton, and now they have the incumbent MP standing for them.... I think it takes a great leap of faith to think those who voted ukip in the euros are not more likely to do so again now

    People clearly do not vote the same way in Euro-elections and Westminster elections. And turnout will surely be higher in the by-election.

    To say UKIP have an incumbent MP is misleading. He was elected as a Tory.
    I didn't say ukip had an incumbent MP!

    And isaid they were more likely to vote ukip with Carswell as the candidate... If you disagree there is a 1/100 shot that can be backed at 4/1 with Ladbrokes
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Smarmeron said:

    @dyedwoolie
    If Ed won't call for an inquiry, then someone with a higher authority should....
    Now, who could that be I wonder?

    Stuart Wheeler?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Funny how PB Tories are still obsessed by the small town in Sheffield story as Tory MPs contemplating defection to UKIP appears to be somewhat a more serious problem for Dave
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited August 2014

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Another day of deafening silence from spineless Ed Miliband, on the sexual abuse of 1200 in Rotherham.

    Do votes matter more than children?

    A number of commentators here have suggested that this is too important an issue for a partisan approach. I look forward to your explanation as to why we are wrong and you are right.

    Surely a non-partisan approach would mean a thorough condemnation from all party leaders and a pledge to work together to address all the issues?

    Instead Miliband is silent on this. It's disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself.
    Choosing to delegate is a sign of strength of leadership.It's easier when he has trusted able deputies like Yvette Cooper.

    http://press.labour.org.uk/post/95836716929/rotherham-abuse-inquiry-response-from-yvette-cooper
    Yes, Ed Milband delegates his comments and press releases unless it's truly important stuff like Tory defections, the Scottish referendum and, um, the death of Richard Attenborough:

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband

    I can never work out whether Labour posters on here are knowingly spinning a line about this stuff or genuinely have their head in the sand.
    You cannot expect the Labour leader to dance to Ukip's tune.That's David Cameron's job.
    Condemning what has happened in Rotherham and pledging to do something about it is not dancing to UKIPs tune. It should be politics 101.

    People are upset about something - you make sure it's out there in the news that you are upset about it too.

    Miliband showed that he knows this when he went walkabouts during the flooding last winter.
    It's an important aspect of leadership not to commentate on the 24 hr. media cycle like Cameron does but to give considered,not knee-jerk, responses.


    Yes, of course it is.

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband

    Maybe someone has set up a spoof account.
    An over-zealous response to this important matter would indicate negligence.





    Or maybe it's because there isn't an 'R' in the month. Or a full moon.



  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Funny how PB Tories are still obsessed by the small town in Sheffield story as Tory MPs contemplating defection to UKIP appears to be somewhat a more serious problem for Dave

    Funny how Labour would rather talk about anything else.
    Guilty feet, they got no rhythm
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    The prophet Mohammed has wreaked revenge on Joan Rivers by the look of it.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @dyedwoolie
    I had assumed that it might be our elected government, but you might be right.
    Stuart Wheeler has more power and respect than Cameron?
  • Funny how PB Tories are still obsessed by the small town in Sheffield story as Tory MPs contemplating defection to UKIP appears to be somewhat a more serious problem for Dave

    Don't talk rubbish.

    Rotherham is not a part of Sheffield

    We have standards in Sheffield.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    CD13 said:

    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.

    He's waiting for a pay-off. Pond slime.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    CD13 said:

    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.

    He resigned from the Labour Party to protect Ed and 'the party' He's earned his 30 pieces of silver
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    CD13 said:

    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.

    Stupid idea by coalition to have elected PCCs dont you think?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Smarmeron said:

    @dyedwoolie
    I had assumed that it might be our elected government, but you might be right.
    Stuart Wheeler has more power and respect than Cameron?

    Joey Barton has more power and respect than Cameron right now
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Funny how PB Tories are still obsessed by the small town in Sheffield story as Tory MPs contemplating defection to UKIP appears to be somewhat a more serious problem for Dave

    Don't talk rubbish.

    Rotherham is not a part of Sheffield

    We have standards in Sheffield.
    I am in Football chant mode and refuse to use the R word.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Funny how PB Tories are still obsessed by the small town in Sheffield story as Tory MPs contemplating defection to UKIP appears to be somewhat a more serious problem for Dave

    You're surprised the systematic exploitation of 1400 kids and an institutional cover-up is talked about more than a political defection?

    This case has really shown how callous some left-wing posters are.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited August 2014

    Mr. Eagles, that seems slightly peculiar.

    I hope next week's episode remembers to have a coherent plot. Rather liked Capaldi's cantankerous exchanges with Clara.

    He's a proper old school Doctor
    Daleks tomorrow too

    Cant wait I like Capaldis Dr Maybe I am too old.
    We need more Slitheen.
    Guys to me the word Capaldis will always mean Italian home made ice cream :)

    Mr. Eagles, that seems slightly peculiar.

    I hope next week's episode remembers to have a coherent plot. Rather liked Capaldi's cantankerous exchanges with Clara.

    He's a proper old school Doctor
    Daleks tomorrow too

    Cant wait I like Capaldis Dr Maybe I am too old.
    We need more Slitheen.
    Guys to me the word Capaldis will always mean Italian home made ice cream :)
    I consumed Capaldi's ice cream, am trying to remember which chimes their van used. There was an option to have the ice cream covered in monkey's blood - thick raspberry sauce.

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Bigjohnowls,

    I was neutral on the idea but it was always likely to fail when it became a party political issue. You get to choose between a bunch of useless party hacks with a record of failure. But that's democracy, I suppose.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    CD13 said:

    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.

    Stupid idea by coalition to have elected PCCs dont you think?
    A catastrophic policy.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    For those wondering up thread, why Asian/Muslim gangs targeted white girls, YA-B has a rather insightful article on the subject. – last two paragraphs most apt and very hard hitting.

    All credit to YAB,for speaking out.

    http://alibhai-brown.com/asian-grooming-gangs/
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    Funny how PB Tories are still obsessed by the small town in Sheffield story as Tory MPs contemplating defection to UKIP appears to be somewhat a more serious problem for Dave

    Could it be that mass rape is a bit more important than the defection of an MP?

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    CD13 said:

    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.

    Stupid idea by coalition to have elected PCCs dont you think?
    The offences were 1997-2011; so before the era of PCC's.

    They came to light and were investigated after councils lost some influence on police authorities.

    Just sayin...
  • Funny how PB Tories are still obsessed by the small town in Sheffield story as Tory MPs contemplating defection to UKIP appears to be somewhat a more serious problem for Dave

    Tee hee PB Tories concerned about the rape and abuse of 1,400 girls when there's a new political story to talk about.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    john_zims said:

    @Socrates

    'My God - it's even worse than I thought:

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-grooming-gangs/18739?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    Fear not, Ed is waiting for PMQ's next Wednesday to call for a judge led public inquiry..

    From the above reference:

    "How many children are at risk?

    A report by the Office of the Children’s Commissioner found that 2,409 children were confirmed as victims of sexual exploitation in gangs and groups in the 14 months between August 2010 to October 2011.

    If that sounds low compared to the 1,400 identified in Rotherham alone, remember that this number covers 16 years.

    This probably only scratches the surface of the real number of victims, and the children’s commissioner said that at least 16,500 children had been identified as being “at risk of sexual exploitation” during one year."

    Such a crime epidemic on this scale needs a co-ordinated approach both at police level and council level, but I am not sure how this could/would be done.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Socrates said:

    Oh look, a 2011 article in the Guardian, having a go at the Times for "dubious claims about Muslim men grooming white girls":

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jan/07/grooming-racialising-crime-tradition

    I genuinely want to see what she thinks of that article now.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,452

    CD13 said:

    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.

    Stupid idea by coalition to have elected PCCs dont you think?
    All the crimes currently being investigated occurred under the PCC's predecessor system, which was obviously not fit for purpose.

    Would you prefer to go back to police authorities?
    In England and Wales, a police authority was a single purpose authority with representatives nominated by the local authority(ies), independent members, and magistrates. Typically, a police authority was made up of seventeen members - nine elected members (who are drawn from the local authority or authorities for the force area, and would be reflective of the political makeup of those authorities). The remaining eight members were called independent members, and were appointed from the local community for fixed terms of four years by the police authority itself. At least three of the police authority's independent members were magistrates. There was no difference in power or responsibility between the different types of member - there are examples of elected, independent and magistrate members chairing police authorities throughout England and Wales.
    So they (outside the Met area in England) dominated by political appointees, and their work was essentially invisible to the public.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Socrates said:

    Funny how PB Tories are still obsessed by the small town in Sheffield story as Tory MPs contemplating defection to UKIP appears to be somewhat a more serious problem for Dave

    You're surprised the systematic exploitation of 1400 kids and an institutional cover-up is talked about more than a political defection?

    This case has really shown how callous some left-wing posters are.
    and how obsessed with racial hatred some right wing posters are?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    GO using exactly same words as Dave on Carswell
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    CD13 said:

    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.

    I expect it is only for the money, and I think he should certainly resign - which is one reason why a robust recall mechanism is essential. If signatures were now being gathered in South Yorkshire for a recall election then he would know the game was up - just as Parliament shouldn't have members such as Eric Joyce or Mike Hancock who are impossible to remove until the next general election.

    However, his justification does have some logic to it, as he states that he resigned in 2010 on this issue and has a fresh electoral mandate for sorting it out as a result of the PCC elections. This raises two questions.

    One - why on earth did Labour select him to be their PCC candidate?

    Two - Is it not dangerous to create a system where people believe they have a democratic mandate in elections where the turnout is only ~15%? Maybe the proposed system for Trade Union ballots should be used for elections more widely, and a person can only be considered elected if they gain more votes than the "stay at home party" - otherwise the seat remains vacant and the election is re-run.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited August 2014
    BenM said:

    CD13 said:

    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.

    Stupid idea by coalition to have elected PCCs dont you think?
    A catastrophic policy.
    All because of 1 rotten (ex)-Labour apple?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    For those wondering up thread, why Asian/Muslim gangs targeted white girls, YA-B has a rather insightful article on the subject. – last two paragraphs most apt and very hard hitting.

    All credit to YAB,for speaking out.

    http://alibhai-brown.com/asian-grooming-gangs/

    I've already praised her on this topic, but, despite having very different views on a range of topics, she deserves serious kudos:

    When these cases happen, as an Muslim Asian woman I am warned not to write on them because it encourages racism against us. Black Britons are similarly enraged when some of their bad men are exposed. Well damn such injunctions. Keeping the lid on dreadful crimes committed by Britons of colour only increases the numbers of racists in this country, maybe even turns good people who try hard not to be prejudiced.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Hahaha

    George Osborne on Carswells defection

    You guessed it

    "Regrettable and counter productive"


    They're all just reading from the script, even the top dogs!

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Socrates said:

    Oh look, a 2011 article in the Guardian, having a go at the Times for "dubious claims about Muslim men grooming white girls":

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jan/07/grooming-racialising-crime-tradition

    I genuinely want to see what she thinks of that article now.
    I've asked her on twitter, will let you know if she replies
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    This government's record on reform of government is one of complete failure,the system of elected PCCs being only one.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    CD13 said:

    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.

    Stupid idea by coalition to have elected PCCs dont you think?
    All the crimes currently being investigated occurred under the PCC's predecessor system, which was obviously not fit for purpose.

    Would you prefer to go back to police authorities?
    In England and Wales, a police authority was a single purpose authority with representatives nominated by the local authority(ies), independent members, and magistrates. Typically, a police authority was made up of seventeen members - nine elected members (who are drawn from the local authority or authorities for the force area, and would be reflective of the political makeup of those authorities). The remaining eight members were called independent members, and were appointed from the local community for fixed terms of four years by the police authority itself. At least three of the police authority's independent members were magistrates. There was no difference in power or responsibility between the different types of member - there are examples of elected, independent and magistrate members chairing police authorities throughout England and Wales.
    So they (outside the Met area in England) dominated by political appointees, and their work was essentially invisible to the public.

    Wheras PCCs candidates are not generally political appointees and are elected by 10% of the electorate and then cannot be forced to resign.

    No matter how much PB Tories rant that they should
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    http://news.antiwar.com/2014/08/28/obama-declines-to-declare-invasion-of-ukraine/

    Seems not even Obama is prepared to go along with Kiev's claim of yet another Russian invasion even if the MSM were.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Socrates
    It shows how callous some right wing posters are that they only want to talk about abuse cases where they think they can get political traction.
    Child abuse seems to have been covered up in several other cases, covering all walks of life and regions.
    A laser like focus on only those ones that fit our political agendas without viewing them as a whole, does no party or commentator any credit.
    Yes Rotheram is a scandal, and should be investigated, but it is not a one party or group problem as all the other cases have shown.
    There is evidence, surprisingly enough, that even Mr.s T and her party whips could turn a blind eye when it suited them, and in the case of the whips, possibly used knowledge of misdeeds to ensure party discipline.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Socrates said:

    For those wondering up thread, why Asian/Muslim gangs targeted white girls, YA-B has a rather insightful article on the subject. – last two paragraphs most apt and very hard hitting.

    All credit to YAB,for speaking out.

    http://alibhai-brown.com/asian-grooming-gangs/

    I've already praised her on this topic, but, despite having very different views on a range of topics, she deserves serious kudos:

    When these cases happen, as an Muslim Asian woman I am warned not to write on them because it encourages racism against us. Black Britons are similarly enraged when some of their bad men are exposed. Well damn such injunctions. Keeping the lid on dreadful crimes committed by Britons of colour only increases the numbers of racists in this country, maybe even turns good people who try hard not to be prejudiced.
    The conductors of racial strife are the people in the middle who only listen to one side
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245



    Funny how PB Tories are still obsessed by the small town in Sheffield story as Tory MPs contemplating defection to UKIP appears to be somewhat a more serious problem for Dave

    Tee hee PB Tories concerned about the rape and abuse of 1,400 girls when there's a new political story to talk about.
    V poor trolling, must try harder.

  • hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    Bit embarassing for UKIP. They already have a candidate Roger Lord for Clacton who was only selected 3 weeks ago and has challenged Carswell to take part in a contest.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited August 2014
    This government's record on reform of government is one of complete failure,the system of elected PCCs being only one.

    IF you mean we still have shrinking rotten labour boroughs like Rotherham, while prosperous tory constituencies boom and that fact is not represented in the voting system, then I guess you are correct.
  • Patrick's prediction: Dave calls for a full judge led Public Enquiry across the whole country (not just Rotherham) before Wednesday's PMQs.

    What odds would the PB commentariat give me?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Smarmeron said:

    @Socrates
    It shows how callous some right wing posters are that they only want to talk about abuse cases where they think they can get political traction.
    Child abuse seems to have been covered up in several other cases, covering all walks of life and regions.
    A laser like focus on only those ones that fit our political agendas without viewing them as a whole, does no party or commentator any credit.
    Yes Rotheram is a scandal, and should be investigated, but it is not a one party or group problem as all the other cases have shown.
    There is evidence, surprisingly enough, that even Mr.s T and her party whips could turn a blind eye when it suited them, and in the case of the whips, possibly used knowledge of misdeeds to ensure party discipline.

    Great post

    Cant think it will stop the right wingers ranting for at least another week though.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,452

    CD13 said:

    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.

    I expect it is only for the money, and I think he should certainly resign - which is one reason why a robust recall mechanism is essential. If signatures were now being gathered in South Yorkshire for a recall election then he would know the game was up - just as Parliament shouldn't have members such as Eric Joyce or Mike Hancock who are impossible to remove until the next general election.

    However, his justification does have some logic to it, as he states that he resigned in 2010 on this issue and has a fresh electoral mandate for sorting it out as a result of the PCC elections. This raises two questions.

    One - why on earth did Labour select him to be their PCC candidate?

    Two - Is it not dangerous to create a system where people believe they have a democratic mandate in elections where the turnout is only ~15%? Maybe the proposed system for Trade Union ballots should be used for elections more widely, and a person can only be considered elected if they gain more votes than the "stay at home party" - otherwise the seat remains vacant and the election is re-run.
    But does that turnout argument apply for MPs as well? Shortly before the PCC election Lucy Powell got elected as an MP on just an 18.2% turnout.

    Does she have a democratic mandate, and should she be an MP? Where do you set the limit? If 15% is too low, then is 18%? 30%? 50%?

    Of course, this is just an argument for compulsory voting ;-) ...
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    BenM said:

    CD13 said:

    How is Shaun Wright now earning his £85k salary?

    If he walks into a meeting, there will be a sudden silence and lots of embarrassed glances. Any orders he gives will meet the same fate. He's an empty suit, achieving nothing.

    So it can only be for the money.

    Stupid idea by coalition to have elected PCCs dont you think?
    A catastrophic policy.
    All because of 1 rotten (ex)-Labour apple?
    No, because of a total lack of mandate for the 40-odd PCCs in the original elections, the derisory turnout in the recent by-election in the West Midlands, the embarrassing PCC here in Kent, Shaun Wright, the bloke suspended in Bedfordshire.

    A typically useless and wasteful Tory idea.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    Mr. G, Salmond cannot (unless he's wealthier than I imagined) guarantee deposits up to 85,000 (is that pounds, or euros?).

    A central bank can.

    The only ways the deposit guarantee can remain is:
    1) currency union (pound or euro)
    2) a Scottish currency

    Why sterlingisation even remains on the table perplexes me. Maybe it's clever bluffing, and if Yes wins it'll be swept away for sound economic reasons, having served its purpose convincing people to vote for independence.

    Why could Scotland not have a central bank
This discussion has been closed.