You either fire the guy and move on or pretend it never happened and hope the issue drops. As usual with Cameron he has picked the worst of both worlds.
I've not read through today's comments but I suspect tim and mick have had plenty to say about today's contemptible goings on.
I made a few comments this morning and now I'm making some tonight. Are you the new PB post count tsar or something? Maybe you should direct your attention to those other than me and Tim if you seriously think we're the only ones who post much on here?
No need to get touchy Mick.
I was merely imagining what you and tim would have been saying, I dare say you were viewing the sorry shambles with as much contempt as I was.
What might push Cameron out/a confidence vote is polling that shows say Boris winning a majority if he was leader/the Tories polling in first place if Boris was leader.
Nadine's final gift to Cameron would be stand down as an MP for Boris and Nigel announcing UKIP won't contest the by-election.
The other trigger maybe if UKIP win a by-election in a Tory held seat.
The Tory party won't allow Cameron to be Honorius as the UKIPvisigoths sack Rome/The Tory Party.
Aren't the EU the Visigoths? They sacked Brussels when Maastricht came into force?
Did anyone see Lord Owen's piece in the Evening Standard today? He called for the UK's renegotiation to call for a restructured EEA, albeit with full voting rights and with limits on free movement of labour. I think it's fanciful, but if we could get that, I'd support staying in it, regardless of what it was called.
What looked suspiciously like a Black Hawk helicopter just flew at almost roof-skimming height over our village. I've seen several in recent months, but this was by far the nearest and lowest.
They're flying west-east or east-west, so I assume it might be something to do with Cambridge airport / Marshalls Aerospace. We don't have any in the UK military (*); does anyone have any idea what they're doing disturbing me from drinking a rather cheap but drinkable red wine?
Room-shaking good!
On-topic: I rarely comment on polls, but this is a humdinger. I'd be tempted to vote for UKIP under certain circumstances, except a local representative on PB has said they don't want my vote. :-(
(*) Assuming I am right and they are Black Hawks.
Well, I didn't see any Black Hawks, but I did see a Dakota (C-47) fly over North Weald yesterday!
Would the Conservatives EU grouping have enough MEPs without those Conservatives?
Well unless there were a number of other losses across Europe. The Tories only make up around half the ECR (which has around 54 MEPs in total) so their losses alone would not bring them close to falling below the threshold to form a group.
Funnily enough those MPs who most often complain about the time being wasted on this were arguing against the programme motion limiting the time to debate the issue!
@SeanT I suggest you go away and learn the concept of a majority. Neither 36% nor 20% constitutes a majority. The 20% who actually care passionately about this do constitute a tiny minority. And they also constitute cretinous bigots. Ergo, my post is correct. And they can go screw themselves.
I'd say the country's leading cretinous bigot is Cameron.
Aside from the obvious Etonian bigotry and metropolitan bigotry he's now in favour of discriminating against heterosexuals re civil contracts.
The cretinous is also obvious from the political disaster he is presiding over.
Funnily enough those MPs who most often complain about the time being wasted on this were arguing against the programme motion limiting the time to debate the issue!
I don't think Sean is opposed to gay marriage, Neil.
@SeanT I suggest you go away and learn the concept of a majority. Neither 36% nor 20% constitutes a majority. The 20% who actually care passionately about this do constitute a tiny minority. And they also constitute cretinous bigots. Ergo, my post is correct. And they can go screw themselves.
So a modest law-abiding woman in her 60s, who is a member of the Church of England, who is happy to allow civil partnerships, but believes, for religious reasons, that marriage is for men and women only, is a "cretinous bigot"? Really?
Listen to yourself. Quite disgusting snobbery. Sneering "liberals" like you are the reason the Tories are falling apart.
What looked suspiciously like a Black Hawk helicopter just flew at almost roof-skimming height over our village. I've seen several in recent months, but this was by far the nearest and lowest.
They're flying west-east or east-west, so I assume it might be something to do with Cambridge airport / Marshalls Aerospace. We don't have any in the UK military (*); does anyone have any idea what they're doing disturbing me from drinking a rather cheap but drinkable red wine?
Room-shaking good!
On-topic: I rarely comment on polls, but this is a humdinger. I'd be tempted to vote for UKIP under certain circumstances, except a local representative on PB has said they don't want my vote. :-(
(*) Assuming I am right and they are Black Hawks.
Well, I didn't see any Black Hawks, but I did see a Dakota (C-47) fly over North Weald yesterday!
Was it the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight Dakota?
A couple of years ago I got a brilliant view of it doing touch-and-go landings at RAF Waddington whilst I was walking the Viking Way.
The best experience was seeing a couple of Apaches doing touch-and-gos on Salisbury Plain. They were about a hundred yards away, and when I waved the front-mounted gun pointed at me as the pilot looked in my direction. Cool. ;-)
The saddest was seeing the memorial to the crashed Chinook at the Mull of Kintyre. About a mile north, three was a solitary, long piece of riveted aluminium, presumably from one of the planes that crashed on the Mull. Very sad. (see profile picture)
Good evening all: Just out of a nice long bath; a 22% for UKIP relaxing bath. I can tell SeanT that UKIP policy is no alliances with any party, leastwise the Tories. Local alliances here and there, good. General alliance bad. We would have a mass desertion from UKIP if it were any otherway.
Peter Kellner agrees with me on gay marriage. No one really cares, it's not winning any votes, and it makes the Tories look horribly divided and cranky:
"As a result, Cameron is in the worst possible place, being thought to fight a battle that few people think matters that much, for reasons that few people respect, and reinforcing his party's reputation for division. These things are damaging his political prospects far more than his backing for a reasonably popular change to the law is boosting it."
Whatever you think of Cameron, he is quite impressively crap at politics.
Quite bizarre really. Given he should be heading in to some good news as the economy recovers, but he will be incapable of exploiting the headlines if he doesn't get a grip.
"That's not the point. Gay marriage is, supposedly, Cameron's cackhanded attempt to detox the Tories. The problem is it has achieved exactly the opposite. He has not gained a single vote with this farce, yet he has alienated millions (many of them loyal law abiding Brits, with sincere religious views - not screaming bigots)."
The real question is the long term damage that Cameron is doing to the Tories by destroying their membership base. If they keep losing members they will struggle for decades to come.
It doesn't necessarily suggest anything of the sort. However if the County Council election votes shares in constituencies were repeated in the general election then according to Survation UKIP would win ten* seats most of which were in the South East or East Of England
That's the beastie (there;s only one of them). AS we;re near Duxford we get a fair few good planes around here, but the Black Hawks weren't anything to do with Duxford as far as I can tell - wrong direction, wrong time.
This is all starting to resemble the last few weeks of IDS' leadership.
When, just over a year ago, ICM published a poll which showed that most Conservative voters from 2010 opposed gay marriage, I warned that this issue would cause problems for Cameron. And, so it has proved. It's been the gift that keeps giving for UKIP.
The real question is the long term damage that Cameron is doing to the Tories by destroying their membership base. If they keep losing members they will struggle for decades to come.
I said last week,how long before ukip/tory cross over in the polls,at the time,I meant it as a joke ;-)
The real question is the long term damage that Cameron is doing to the Tories by destroying their membership base. If they keep losing members they will struggle for decades to come.
I said last week,how long before ukip/tory cross over in the polls,at the time,I meant it as a joke ;-)
Before the DK adjustments, Conservatives & UKIP were tied on 23% in this poll.
This is all starting to resemble the last few weeks of IDS' leadership.
When, just over a year ago, ICM published a poll which showed that most Conservative voters from 2010 opposed gay marriage, I warned that this issue would cause problems for Cameron. And, so it has proved. It's been the gift that keeps giving for UKIP.
part of the problem on gay marriage is that it gives the impression Cameron is spending his time on a "nice to do" while the essentials are being ignored.
AstuteofDenmark - Agree entirely, every department should have had to face the same cuts, including overseas aid, and non-frontline health and education, instead some departments like local government, justice and defence and culture are being slashed to the bone while the ring-fenced departments get off almost scot free!
AstuteofDenmark - Agree entirely, every department should have had to face the same cuts, including overseas aid, and non-frontline health and education, instead some departments like local government, justice and defence and culture are being slashed to the bone while the ring-fenced departments get off almost scot free!
No. Non-essential departments should have been hit harder/scrapped altogether. Foreign Aid being one.
The real question is the long term damage that Cameron is doing to the Tories by destroying their membership base. If they keep losing members they will struggle for decades to come.
I said last week,how long before ukip/tory cross over in the polls,at the time,I meant it as a joke ;-)
Before the DK adjustments, Conservatives & UKIP were tied on 23% in this poll.
There is not a lot of gruntle going around....voters in general don't like any of the traditional parties (ex-Scotland) - so UKIP are prospering - back bench Tory MPs don't like their out of touch leadership, so they are kicking off, and Ed's underwhelming polling performance has Labour MPs- loyal to destruction - shifting uneasily in their seats. LibDems are still anaesthetised by the novelty of government - but that too may not last. Yet, somehow, by Autumn, I think our minds will be on other matters...
Ben Brogan: "[Mr Cameron] suffers because he is not very good at politics. You can tell by the legacy issues he must contend with: he failed to win an election against one of Britain’s least popular prime ministers, then failed to secure his party’s agreement for Coalition; what patronage he has he uses, unwisely, to reward friends; he has followed, rather than led, on Europe; and, as we witnessed last night, he is in the final throes of an utterly avoidable confrontation with his own side over gay marriage."
As has been pointed out the split between left and right leaning political parties is now 46: 46. Yet a few months ago left-leaning parties (Lib Dems + Labour) held a substantial majority over the right/ centre right.
So: has there been a substantial switch to the right in British politics over the last few months, or is it just the right-right lib dems defecting to UKIP whilst the left-left ones are holding to the party?
AstuteofDenmark - Agree entirely, every department should have had to face the same cuts, including overseas aid, and non-frontline health and education, instead some departments like local government, justice and defence and culture are being slashed to the bone while the ring-fenced departments get off almost scot free!
No. Non-essential departments should have been hit harder/scrapped altogether. Foreign Aid being one.
What's your definition of essential? Getting anti-malaria nets I would imagine is pretty damn essential to people that depend on them. The return on investment in international aid is so much higher than money spent domestically, and will create consumer markets for UK companies for our future economic health.
Arthur, overall, the right wing vote share is up about 6% on 2010, showing that UKIP are pulling in support from Labour, Lib Dems, non-voters, in addition to Cons.
This is all starting to resemble the last few weeks of IDS' leadership.
When, just over a year ago, ICM published a poll which showed that most Conservative voters from 2010 opposed gay marriage, I warned that this issue would cause problems for Cameron. And, so it has proved. It's been the gift that keeps giving for UKIP.
part of the problem on gay marriage is that it gives the impression Cameron is spending his time on a "nice to do" while the essentials are being ignored.
The impression has always been that Cameron has time to spend on things he wants to do but isn't interested in more important but harder things.
Ditto Osborne - remember his White House jolly instead of Budget preparation.
Likewise there is always money available for Cameron's pet projects or for Cameron to throw at political problems ot for Cameron to hand out at international meetings.
The Cameroons behave like spoilt brat dilettantes playing puerile politcal games.
And when its all gone wrong they'll have their tantrum and then walk away to another piece of fun while the adults have to clear up their mess.
Just looking at a twitter exchange between Rentoul and Survation... if the fieldwork for the poll was 17-18th May and the loongate story broke the evening (?) of the 17th... how much of the polling would have been done before the loons story broke and how much after?
Socrates - Indeed, but foreign aid to Pakistan and India is not essential, nor is excess bureaucracy in health and education. All that could have been cut while ensuring less of the burden was beared by essential services like the armed forces who defend the realm, libraries and social services in local government and the police and legal aid, and you could also add benefits to OAPS to the welfare cuts too! 20-25% cuts across the board is what I would have done, not 30-35% cuts for some departments and no cuts for a select few
" People are often using the SDP-Labour analogy when discussing UKIP and its effect on the Tory party….I’m starting to think whether a more apt comparison might be the UUP and the DUP.
There seems a growing risk that the considerable working class / lower middle class section of Tory support – the famous C2s – simply breaks away for good, leaving a much smaller and much more elitist rump of Tory voters concentrated in the upmarket stockbroker belts of the home counties. Just as happened when the UUP permanently lost its working class support to the DUP en masse shortly after the Good Friday Agreement. "
I'd be interested on what Sean Fear thinks of the possibility.
Just looking at a twitter exchange between Rentoul and Survation... if the fieldwork for the poll was 17-18th May and the loongate story broke the evening (?) of the 17th... how much of the polling would have been done before the loons story broke and how much after?
So the Conservatives have further to fall? What larks!
AstuteofDenmark - Agree entirely, every department should have had to face the same cuts, including overseas aid, and non-frontline health and education, instead some departments like local government, justice and defence and culture are being slashed to the bone while the ring-fenced departments get off almost scot free!
No. Non-essential departments should have been hit harder/scrapped altogether. Foreign Aid being one.
What's your definition of essential? Getting anti-malaria nets I would imagine is pretty damn essential to people that depend on them. The return on investment in international aid is so much higher than money spent domestically, and will create consumer markets for UK companies for our future economic health.
British voters should only be taxed for services to british people/residents. British people can and do donate to foreign charities, but it is not a necessary function of the British government.
The sole responsibility of the British government is the welfare of the British people.
Socrates - Indeed, but foreign aid to Pakistan and India is not essential, nor is excess bureaucracy in health and education. All that could have been cut while ensuring less of the burden was beared by essential services like the armed forces who defend the realm, libraries and social services in local government and the police and legal aid, and you could also add benefits to OAPS to the welfare cuts too! 20-25% cuts across the board is what I would have done, not 30-35% cuts for some departments and no cuts for a select few
Frankly, when leading Pakistani politicians are blaming us for assassinations caused by their own screwed up political culture, I don't see why we should contribute to Pakistan at all.
AnotherRichard - It also happened to the Tories in Canada when they were overtaken by Reform and in France some polls have showed Le Pen would beat Fillon or Cope in the first round in 2017 if Sarko is not a candidate. Perot also beat Bush Snr in several states in 1992
Another Richard, great minds think alike. Unlike the DUP, potential UKIp growth is not limited by religious affiliation. UKIP can win socially conservative left wing voters that the Conservatives can't reach.
Tebbit is posting some barmy stuff about gay marriage, such as hypothesising fathers can marry their sons to skip inheritance tax. I assume he realises it would be just as impossible as fathers marrying their daughters currently.
It shows just how horrendous the Conservative brand is. For all their sins, I don't blame it entirely on Cameron and Osborne - a big part of it much be down to the legacy of Thatcher, rightly or wrongly. If FPTP survives the next election, it much be imperative for the next Conservative leader to seek a merger with UKIP, and to get rid of the "Tory" name in the meantime.
Mr. Surbiton, do ICM themselves not highly regard the Wisdom Index compared to standard polling?
We can cherry pick polls. This one is clearly bad for the Conservatives. The average is not that different to the recent standard (Labour ahead by circa 7pts, UKIP a little ahead of the Lib Dems).
Another Richard, great minds think alike. Unlike the DUP, potential UKIp growth is not limited by religious affiliation. UKIP can win socially conservative left wing voters that the Conservatives can't reach.
UKIP is basking currently with a lot of attention. Sooner rather than later, more detailed attention will be given. Policies ? [ er, what is that ? ], personalities. Something like "fruitcakes" will emerge, plenty of them. Many of them, proud r_____s.
I look forward to Tebbit speaking about this in the Lords. The Commons has been disappointingly short on cuckoo speeches today. Here's hoping Willie McCrea lets loose shortly.
Mr. Surbiton, do ICM themselves not highly regard the Wisdom Index compared to standard polling?
We can cherry pick polls. This one is clearly bad for the Conservatives. The average is not that different to the recent standard (Labour ahead by circa 7pts, UKIP a little ahead of the Lib Dems).
Mr.Dancer. A poll ask people how they would vote ? It doesn't ask people how everyone else would vote. There is a difference. Perhaps, with all this swivel eye, you have not spotted it.
The Conservative Party was founded in 1834, or 1912, depending on your point of view.
I said tory ;-) knock the party off then we be alright ;-)
The Conservative Party originated in the Whigs, not the Tories. It's like claiming the 1970s IRA was the same thing as the independence movement in the early 20th century.
AstuteofDenmark - Agree entirely, every department should have had to face the same cuts, including overseas aid, and non-frontline health and education, instead some departments like local government, justice and defence and culture are being slashed to the bone while the ring-fenced departments get off almost scot free!
No. Non-essential departments should have been hit harder/scrapped altogether. Foreign Aid being one.
Aid to India 300 million GBP p.a. "Aid" to the EU 18 BILLION GBP p.a.
Another Richard, great minds think alike. Unlike the DUP, potential UKIp growth is not limited by religious affiliation. UKIP can win socially conservative left wing voters that the Conservatives can't reach.
It wasn't actually a comment made by me but I agree with it.
I don't think the Cameroons understand how much of the Conservative vote is either working class social conservative or working class anti-Labour. The Cameroons are risking losing all of this with the way they're behaving. Perhaps they don't even want these sorts of voters ?
Another round of defence cuts while overseas aid is protected would put the icing on the cake.
It shows just how horrendous the Conservative brand is. For all their sins, I don't blame it entirely on Cameron and Osborne - a big part of it much be down to the legacy of Thatcher, rightly or wrongly. If FPTP survives the next election, it much be imperative for the next Conservative leader to seek a merger with UKIP, and to get rid of the "Tory" name in the meantime.
That's absolute rubbish. Back in the 1980s, when Mrs Thatcher was being so terrible and unpopular, she won her elections.
She is repeatedly rated, in national polls, as the best post war PM. The recent polling, with Mrs Thatcher as a putative candidate, had her winning an election again today!
Another Richard, great minds think alike. Unlike the DUP, potential UKIp growth is not limited by religious affiliation. UKIP can win socially conservative left wing voters that the Conservatives can't reach.
UKIP is basking currently with a lot of attention. Sooner rather than later, more detailed attention will be given. Policies ? [ er, what is that ? ], personalities. Something like "fruitcakes" will emerge, plenty of them. Many of them, proud r_____s.
A Labour supporter like yourself ( when you're not voting LibDem ) is in no position to criticise anyone about lack of policies . What does ruthless EdM stand for apart from EdM's vulgar ambition ?
The Conservative Party was founded in 1834, or 1912, depending on your point of view.
I said tory ;-) knock the party off then we be alright ;-)
The Conservative Party originated in the Whigs, not the Tories. It's like claiming the 1970s IRA was the same thing as the independence movement in the early 20th century.
Sinn Fein of 1970 did have its root in the 1905 incarnation - via a couple of splits! 1922 (Anti-Treaty/Pro-Treaty), 1927 (abstentionism) and 1970 (traditionalists v. Marxists) of course.
AstuteofDenmark - Agree entirely, every department should have had to face the same cuts, including overseas aid, and non-frontline health and education, instead some departments like local government, justice and defence and culture are being slashed to the bone while the ring-fenced departments get off almost scot free!
No. Non-essential departments should have been hit harder/scrapped altogether. Foreign Aid being one.
What's your definition of essential? Getting anti-malaria nets I would imagine is pretty damn essential to people that depend on them. The return on investment in international aid is so much higher than money spent domestically, and will create consumer markets for UK companies for our future economic health.
British voters should only be taxed for services to british people/residents. British people can and do donate to foreign charities, but it is not a necessary function of the British government.
The sole responsibility of the British government is the welfare of the British people.
And done right, foreign aid is an investment in our future. I'd rather sort a problem in advance before it becomes a threat to our security
F1: if I remember I'll have the Monaco early discussion up tomorrow. Monaco's one of my least favourite circuits, but should be one of the easiest to follow on the radio.
Another Richard, great minds think alike. Unlike the DUP, potential UKIp growth is not limited by religious affiliation. UKIP can win socially conservative left wing voters that the Conservatives can't reach.
UKIP is basking currently with a lot of attention. Sooner rather than later, more detailed attention will be given. Policies ? [ er, what is that ? ], personalities. Something like "fruitcakes" will emerge, plenty of them. Many of them, proud r_____s.
A Labour supporter like yourself ( when you're not voting LibDem ) is in no position to criticise anyone about lack of policies . What does ruthless EdM stand for apart from EdM's vulgar ambition ?
Except, currently not having a policy is itself a policy. A very good one too ! Why show all the goodies now ?
The Conservative Party was founded in 1834, or 1912, depending on your point of view.
I said tory ;-) knock the party off then we be alright ;-)
The Conservative Party originated in the Whigs, not the Tories. It's like claiming the 1970s IRA was the same thing as the independence movement in the early 20th century.
I go for the Pittites side of the conservative party ;-)
The Conservative Party was founded in 1834, or 1912, depending on your point of view.
I said tory ;-) knock the party off then we be alright ;-)
The Conservative Party originated in the Whigs, not the Tories. It's like claiming the 1970s IRA was the same thing as the independence movement in the early 20th century.
You better get on and inform every person who has ever colloquially referred to the Conservatives as the Tories in the last 170 years then, if you're going to quibble terminology.
AstuteofDenmark - Agree entirely, every department should have had to face the same cuts, including overseas aid, and non-frontline health and education, instead some departments like local government, justice and defence and culture are being slashed to the bone while the ring-fenced departments get off almost scot free!
No. Non-essential departments should have been hit harder/scrapped altogether. Foreign Aid being one.
Aid to India 300 million GBP p.a. "Aid" to the EU 18 BILLION GBP p.a.
Tebbit is posting some barmy stuff about gay marriage, such as hypothesising fathers can marry their sons to skip inheritance tax. I assume he realises it would be just as impossible as fathers marrying their daughters currently.
I find it a rather amazing thing that some people believe that others are so desperate for tax advantage they would do such a thing. There's crazy people out there, but it would never be an en masse issue. Does tax issues really impact on people getting married? Maybe I'm a romantic after all, because that sounds barmy.
I will have to take your leave for tonight. Before I go, I must congratulate my right of centre PB friends on securing your "centre-right" majority. Long may it continue.
We must not, of course, forget our two friends: UKIP and FPTP.
Another Richard, great minds think alike. Unlike the DUP, potential UKIp growth is not limited by religious affiliation. UKIP can win socially conservative left wing voters that the Conservatives can't reach.
UKIP is basking currently with a lot of attention. Sooner rather than later, more detailed attention will be given. Policies ? [ er, what is that ? ], personalities. Something like "fruitcakes" will emerge, plenty of them. Many of them, proud r_____s.
A Labour supporter like yourself ( when you're not voting LibDem ) is in no position to criticise anyone about lack of policies . What does ruthless EdM stand for apart from EdM's vulgar ambition ?
Except, currently not having a policy is itself a policy. A very good one too ! Why show all the goodies now ?
EdM is your Father Christmas then. It would be cruel to tell you the truth about EdM and Father Christmas since they both cheer you up.
Socrates, I think it pre-dates Thatcher. There are people who share a lot of right-wing views for whom voting against the Conservatives is something you imbibe with mother's milk. But, UKIP is not their old enemy. Overall, Thatcher did very well among working class voters.
Charles - Maybe, but we have been giving aid to India until recently despite its growth and why should overseas aid not have to face the same cuts as the armed forces, libraries, social services, the police, legal aid, welfare etc?
"Survation’s last poll was at the end of April before the local elections, so changes are just as likely to be down to the local elections and the Conservative infighting over Europe as anything more recent."
One thing that has struck me as strange about this evening is that no one has yet apparently made the most obvious point about this poll which is it might just be a very strange outlier.
I can only assume that people are accepting it because it matches their preconceptions of the current narrative. The interesting point is that the validity of that narrative seems to be being accepted by almost everyone right across the board irrespective of party. The only difference between the sides appears to be in the way people explain the narrative or defend against it based on their own allegiances.
Since it is the party I support which does best out of this poll I think it is only fair that I point out that this might just be a rogue (for all that I want to agree with it)
Comments
"You say a "Tiny minority of Britons opposes gay marriage"? This YouGov poll says 36% of Britons oppose gay marriage, 20% of them strongly."
Does that make 64% support gay marriage ?
You either fire the guy and move on or pretend it never happened and hope the issue drops. As usual with Cameron he has picked the worst of both worlds.
I was merely imagining what you and tim would have been saying, I dare say you were viewing the sorry shambles with as much contempt as I was.
You didn't hook your ball out of bounds at the Double Trouble did you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2009
Aside from the obvious Etonian bigotry and metropolitan bigotry he's now in favour of discriminating against heterosexuals re civil contracts.
The cretinous is also obvious from the political disaster he is presiding over.
My impression is that he is just ANGRY.
Oooh! Handbags!
http://www.raf.mod.uk/bbmf/theaircraft/dakota.cfm
A couple of years ago I got a brilliant view of it doing touch-and-go landings at RAF Waddington whilst I was walking the Viking Way.
The best experience was seeing a couple of Apaches doing touch-and-gos on Salisbury Plain. They were about a hundred yards away, and when I waved the front-mounted gun pointed at me as the pilot looked in my direction. Cool. ;-)
The saddest was seeing the memorial to the crashed Chinook at the Mull of Kintyre. About a mile north, three was a solitary, long piece of riveted aluminium, presumably from one of the planes that crashed on the Mull. Very sad. (see profile picture)
Just out of a nice long bath; a 22% for UKIP relaxing bath.
I can tell SeanT that UKIP policy is no alliances with any party, leastwise the Tories. Local alliances here and there, good. General alliance bad. We would have a mass desertion from UKIP if it were any otherway.
But as I'm pretty competant at my job I tend to get disgruntled with those who aren't at theirs.
And there's no shortage of those in politics.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/normantebbit/100217757/geoffrey-howe-did-for-margaret-thatcher-now-david-cameron-is-in-his-sights/?fb
UKIP top the poll in 'east of england', and 'south east'. I assume this means they win Westminster seats.
http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Survation_May_Voting_Intentions_Poll_Tables_20th-May.pdf
"Our family's always voted Conservative etc, etc" 24%
Thinking for themselves 22%
How long does the dam hold ?
I don't know but the Cameroons are attacking it with sledgehammers.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-20/former-pm-kevin-rudd-backs-same-sex-marriage-in-blog/4701814
"That's not the point. Gay marriage is, supposedly, Cameron's cackhanded attempt to detox the Tories. The problem is it has achieved exactly the opposite. He has not gained a single vote with this farce, yet he has alienated millions (many of them loyal law abiding Brits, with sincere religious views - not screaming bigots)."
Spot on, Sean !!
Deninitely was the BBMF Dakota. Here's a pic:
http://t.co/1gy1gCL86m
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22592273
No one noticed with all this bad publicity on the tories,labour still fall back in the latest poll,these party leaders are a joke.
Why couldn't we have salmond as labour leader and farage as tory leader,our politics might not be in trouble as it is now.
In this poll, I think 46% of UKIP support is 2010 Con.
http://survation.com/2013/05/ukip-won-in-8-westminster-constituencies-last-thursday/
*Survation found two more since the initial analysis
http://www.couriermail.com.au/federal-election/foreign-aid-to-take-budget-hit/story-fnho52jo-1226640827192
When, just over a year ago, ICM published a poll which showed that most Conservative voters from 2010 opposed gay marriage, I warned that this issue would cause problems for Cameron. And, so it has proved. It's been the gift that keeps giving for UKIP.
https://twitter.com/DamianSurvation/status/336538792913666048
Cross over could also do for him as well.
"[Mr Cameron] suffers because he is not very good at politics. You can tell by the legacy issues he must contend with: he failed to win an election against one of Britain’s least popular prime ministers, then failed to secure his party’s agreement for Coalition; what patronage he has he uses, unwisely, to reward friends; he has followed, rather than led, on Europe; and, as we witnessed last night, he is in the final throes of an utterly avoidable confrontation with his own side over gay marriage."
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100217929/cameron-shouldnt-blame-our-rowdy-press-for-his-own-failings/
So: has there been a substantial switch to the right in British politics over the last few months, or is it just the right-right lib dems defecting to UKIP whilst the left-left ones are holding to the party?
Could things be all over for Cameron so quickly.
Ditto Osborne - remember his White House jolly instead of Budget preparation.
Likewise there is always money available for Cameron's pet projects or for Cameron to throw at political problems ot for Cameron to hand out at international meetings.
The Cameroons behave like spoilt brat dilettantes playing puerile politcal games.
And when its all gone wrong they'll have their tantrum and then walk away to another piece of fun while the adults have to clear up their mess.
But then having won battles, they fire the celebratory AK47s into their own feet.
" People are often using the SDP-Labour analogy when discussing UKIP and its effect on the Tory party….I’m starting to think whether a more apt comparison might be the UUP and the DUP.
There seems a growing risk that the considerable working class / lower middle class section of Tory support – the famous C2s – simply breaks away for good, leaving a much smaller and much more elitist rump of Tory voters concentrated in the upmarket stockbroker belts of the home counties. Just as happened when the UUP permanently lost its working class support to the DUP en masse shortly after the Good Friday Agreement. "
I'd be interested on what Sean Fear thinks of the possibility.
But remember ICM has the blues just 3 points off of Labour.
The sole responsibility of the British government is the welfare of the British people.
It shows just how horrendous the Conservative brand is. For all their sins, I don't blame it entirely on Cameron and Osborne - a big part of it much be down to the legacy of Thatcher, rightly or wrongly. If FPTP survives the next election, it much be imperative for the next Conservative leader to seek a merger with UKIP, and to get rid of the "Tory" name in the meantime.
We can cherry pick polls. This one is clearly bad for the Conservatives. The average is not that different to the recent standard (Labour ahead by circa 7pts, UKIP a little ahead of the Lib Dems).
But on the fundamental question the DUP eventually turned into the UUP so you might ask what the point of it all was...
The Conservative Party was founded in 1834, or 1912, depending on your point of view.
I look forward to Tebbit speaking about this in the Lords. The Commons has been disappointingly short on cuckoo speeches today. Here's hoping Willie McCrea lets loose shortly.
"Aid" to the EU 18 BILLION GBP p.a.
I don't think the Cameroons understand how much of the Conservative vote is either working class social conservative or working class anti-Labour. The Cameroons are risking losing all of this with the way they're behaving. Perhaps they don't even want these sorts of voters ?
Another round of defence cuts while overseas aid is protected would put the icing on the cake.
She is repeatedly rated, in national polls, as the best post war PM. The recent polling, with Mrs Thatcher as a putative candidate, had her winning an election again today!
1922 (Anti-Treaty/Pro-Treaty), 1927 (abstentionism) and 1970 (traditionalists v. Marxists) of course.
Watch out for the Mercedes in qualifying.
But the process of change could be lengthy, highly traumatic and have serious knock on effects.
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/336584115195363328/photo/1
We must not, of course, forget our two friends: UKIP and FPTP.
Goodnight !
EdM is your Father Christmas then. It would be cruel to tell you the truth about EdM and Father Christmas since they both cheer you up.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/7483
I can only assume that people are accepting it because it matches their preconceptions of the current narrative. The interesting point is that the validity of that narrative seems to be being accepted by almost everyone right across the board irrespective of party. The only difference between the sides appears to be in the way people explain the narrative or defend against it based on their own allegiances.
Since it is the party I support which does best out of this poll I think it is only fair that I point out that this might just be a rogue (for all that I want to agree with it)
@TimMontgomerie @GuidoFawkes I was at a UKIP meeting 30 mins ago - they have had 900 new member applications in last 48 hrs. #Omnishambles
Blimey! UKIP will have to get a new office and draft some additional helpers.
I posted that on the site yesterday!