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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Unique poll IndyRef poll confined to Scottish women only fi

SystemSystem Posts: 11,688
edited August 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Unique poll IndyRef poll confined to Scottish women only finds 20% lead for NO

The front page of Thursday’s Daily Record is dominated by a new Survation poll confined to women only. This is the first time I can recall anything like this being carried out and the figures, after the exclusion of the don’t knows, show a 20% NO lead.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    First again!!!!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Being pessimistic, I won't be comfortable unless Yes slips out of the 40s entirely in the 'excluding DK' polls.
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    Fascinating, though you could say this is everyday sexism in action.

    Looking at the headline figures, by my reckoning, and it's not a strict comparison, but since the last survation, poll, there's been a swing to Yes, amongst women.

    Very minor, around 1% to 1.25%.

    Within the margin of error, so statistical noise.
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    Tim_B said:

    First again!!!!

    Cross-over sustained!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    Fascinating, though you could say this is everyday sexism in action.

    Looking at the headline figures, by my reckoning, and it's not a strict comparison, but since the last survation, poll, there's been a swing to Yes, amongst women.

    Very minor, around 1% to 1.25%.

    Within the margin of error, so statistical noise.

    IIRC, the immediate post debate poll had women more positive about Salmond's performance than men as well.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    First again!!!!

    Cross-over sustained!
    Indeed not!!

    I have never dressed as a woman! :-)
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    DanBarkrDanBarkr Posts: 17
    kle4 said:

    Fascinating, though you could say this is everyday sexism in action.

    Looking at the headline figures, by my reckoning, and it's not a strict comparison, but since the last survation, poll, there's been a swing to Yes, amongst women.

    Very minor, around 1% to 1.25%.

    Within the margin of error, so statistical noise.

    IIRC, the immediate post debate poll had women more positive about Salmond's performance than men as well.
    yeah, the SNP took great pride in that too (though it was a small sample size)
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    5 weeks to go until the big day
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,731
    Better Together seem to be upping their game - they are contrasting YESNP's "Project Fear" stories about the NHS, with what the SNP said in their 2011 manifesto, about how the NHS in Scotland could be protected from "cuts" and "creeping privatisation" as it was devolved to the Scottish parliament. I guess since their currency lie has come spectacularly unstuck they have had to dig out a new one....
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    there's been a swing to Yes, amongst women.

    I was always brought up that when a woman said No, she meant it.......
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    DanBarkr said:

    kle4 said:

    Fascinating, though you could say this is everyday sexism in action.

    Looking at the headline figures, by my reckoning, and it's not a strict comparison, but since the last survation, poll, there's been a swing to Yes, amongst women.

    Very minor, around 1% to 1.25%.

    Within the margin of error, so statistical noise.

    IIRC, the immediate post debate poll had women more positive about Salmond's performance than men as well.
    yeah, the SNP took great pride in that too (though it was a small sample size)
    It was heartening to see the same 'take what good news you can get' attitude that was in evidence around then. Nothing boosts confidence so much as seeing the other side engaged in blatant 'find the positive' messaging. They could still pull it off, but that provided some relief to me.
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    Scotland voting NO would condemn the Tories to Opposition for ever and ever and ever!
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Better Together seem to be upping their game - they are contrasting YESNP's "Project Fear" stories about the NHS, with what the SNP said in their 2011 manifesto, about how the NHS in Scotland could be protected from "cuts" and "creeping privatisation" as it was devolved to the Scottish parliament. I guess since their currency lie has come spectacularly unstuck they have had to dig out a new one....

    'Creeping privatisation" - why is this a threat? Surely the more privatisation the less government money?

    Or is it simply - government good, business bad?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,731
    For comedy reporting of a poll that shows Women 60:40 against Indy (excluding DK) it would be hard to top "No lead slumps by 3% in new female only Survation poll"......
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Sunil For the FINAL time please can you stop posting this rubbish. The Tories won from 1979-1997 with Scotland part of the UK and presently Labour leads in the north, the Midlands, London and Wales and would have a comfortable majority even without Scotland.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    Scotland voting NO would condemn the Tories to Opposition for ever and ever and ever!

    No expectation of a Scottish Tory surge in the aftermath of such a vote of confidence in the Union?

    Ahahaha, I kid. It's an amusing dilemma for them, and one I hope they get to confront very soon.

    Night all.
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    DanBarkrDanBarkr Posts: 17

    For comedy reporting of a poll that shows Women 60:40 against Indy (excluding DK) it would be hard to top "No lead slumps by 3% in new female only Survation poll"......

    Ahh, Scot Goes Pop. The greatest satire site there is (apart from Wings Over Scotland, maybe)
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    HYUFD said:

    Sunil For the FINAL time please can you stop posting this rubbish. The Tories won from 1979-1997 with Scotland part of the UK and presently Labour leads in the north, the Midlands, London and Wales and would have a comfortable majority even without Scotland.

    Note: The subject HYUFD responds to the stimulus as predicted!
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,825
    Been watching Andrew Neil's documentary about Scottish Independence on I-Player...

    Must say after day's weeks and months after a YES vote sound potentially very exciting, LOL!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Sunil Only 2 elections have changed from Labour to Tory since the war because of Scotland, 1964 and Feb 1974. In 1964 Home was a Scot anyway and could not have been PM in England and Wales and in Feb '74 Heath won the popular vote.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Note again that Scotland is the only region in the UK where the Labour vote is below the score it got in 2010 in the polls and the Tory vote has risen above what Cameron got in 2010
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    HYUFD said:

    Note again that Scotland is the only region in the UK where the Labour vote is below the score it got in 2010 in the polls and the Tory vote has risen above what Cameron got in 2010

    Note: The subject HYUFD continues to respond as expected.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    For comedy reporting of a poll that shows Women 60:40 against Indy (excluding DK) it would be hard to top "No lead slumps by 3% in new female only Survation poll"......

    I'm sorry, but this poll is Good For Yes™. :')
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    HYUFD said:

    Note again that Scotland is the only region in the UK where the Labour vote is below the score it got in 2010 in the polls and the Tory vote has risen above what Cameron got in 2010

    Note: The subject HYUFD continues to respond as expected.
    When will your avatar be changed to YeSunil?

    ;-)
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,825
    edited August 2014
    Whatever happens to David Cameron after a YES vote, it's easy to imagine England swinging very heavily to the Conservative Party to ensure they have a strong party representing England in the negotiations with Scotland.

    It's possible Wales would also swing quite heavily to the Tories as well, in this scenario, I think.

    With Labour so reliant on Scottish MP's, MP's that will be thrown out of Westminster in 2016, it's hard to see England in particular wanting a Labour government to negotiate with Salmond.

    A Conservative landslide in 2015 would be my guess as a result of Scotland leaving the Union. Who would be the leader to benefit from that landslide though, I wonder?
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    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note again that Scotland is the only region in the UK where the Labour vote is below the score it got in 2010 in the polls and the Tory vote has risen above what Cameron got in 2010

    Note: The subject HYUFD continues to respond as expected.
    When will your avatar be changed to YeSunil?

    ;-)
    Note: The subject RobD appears to be changing the, er, subject :)))
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Sunil You have failed to respond to any of my points, indeed John Curtice has said that loss of Scotland will only mean Labour need an additional 1% in rUK to win outright
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    GIN1138 said:

    Whatever happens to David Cameron after a YES vote, it's easy to imagine England swinging very heavily to the Conservative Party to ensure they have a strong party representing England in the negotiations with Scotland.

    It's possible Wales would also swing quite heavily to the Tories as well, in this scenario, I think.

    With Labour so reliant on Scottish MP's, MP's that will be thrown out of Westminster in 2016, it's hard to see England in particular wanting a Labour government to negotiate with Salmond.

    A Conservative landslide in 2015 would be my guess as a result of Scotland leaving the Union. Who would be the leader to benefit from that landslide though, I wonder?


    Your theory won't be tested, I doubt a Yes vote would make any difference in VI in England - though Cameron could be forced out (20% chance maybe ?)
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    HYUFD said:

    Sunil You have failed to respond to any of my points, indeed John Curtice has said that loss of Scotland will only mean Labour need an additional 1% in rUK to win outright

    Note: The subject HYUFD is continuing to have his delusional world manipulated successfully.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Sunil As I said only 2 elections of the 18 since 1945 would have switched from Labour to Tory without Scotland, and in 1 of those Heath won the popular vote anyway, in the other the English Wilson had a majority of 4 and his opponent, Home, was a Scot anyway and could not have been a candidate for PM of rUK!! Night!!
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    HYUFD said:

    Sunil As I said only 2 elections of the 18 since 1945 would have switched from Labour to Tory without Scotland, and in 1 of those Heath won the popular vote anyway, in the other the English Wilson had a majority of 4 and his opponent, Home, was a Scot anyway and could not have been a candidate for PM of rUK!! Night!!

    Note: The subject HYUFD appears to be oblivious to the fact that Cameron would have had a majority of 19 in 2010 without Scotland, instead of having to govern with the LibDems...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    edited August 2014
    Sunil In 2010 Brown was a Scot and got a big boost relative to rUK as a result, in 2014 north London Miliband astonishingly polling BELOW what Brown got in 2010 in Scotland and the Tories slightly up too helped by relatively low UKIP vote north of border so your argument is now largely irrelevant for the next election. Goodnight!
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    HYUFD said:

    Sunil In 2010 Brown was a Scot and got a big boost relative to rUK as a result, in 2014 north London Miliband astonishingly polling BELOW what Brown got in 2010 in Scotland and the Tories slightly up too helped by relatively low UKIP vote north of border so your argument is now largely irrelevant for the next election. Goodnight!

    Note: The subject HYUFD will have to wait and see :)
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    Tim_B said:



    'Creeping privatisation" - why is this a threat? Surely the more privatisation the less government money?

    Or is it simply - government good, business bad?

    Good trolling! But in case you meant it, suffice to say that there is a practical issue (would the same level of care cost more or less with more competition but also the profit margin?) and a political issue (privatising the NHS is electoral poison since many people think, rightly or wrongly, that private firms will cherry-pick the easy bits).

    Had trouble signing on to comments all week in China (I think because the site uses Twitter in one link) but today it's worked. Odd.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    HYUFD said:

    Sunil As I said only 2 elections of the 18 since 1945 would have switched from Labour to Tory without Scotland, and in 1 of those Heath won the popular vote anyway, in the other the English Wilson had a majority of 4 and his opponent, Home, was a Scot anyway and could not have been a candidate for PM of rUK!! Night!!

    The Conservatives used to be alot stronger in Scotland.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    HYUFD said:

    Sunil You have failed to respond to any of my points, indeed John Curtice has said that loss of Scotland will only mean Labour need an additional 1% in rUK to win outright

    1% swing, which equates to a 2% additional lead...

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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    HYUFD said:

    Sunil Only 2 elections have changed from Labour to Tory since the war because of Scotland, 1964 and Feb 1974. In 1964 Home was a Scot anyway and could not have been PM in England and Wales and in Feb '74 Heath won the popular vote.

    Fair enough, but remember there's a whole range of possible election outcomes than didn't actually eventuate.

    My calculations indicate that Labour would need to gain about 22% more seats than at present to win a majority in rUK, and approximately the same proportionate increase in swing.

    Far from impossible, but a significant handicap nevertheless...
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    El_SidEl_Sid Posts: 145
    Hasn't there been several general polls which have had internal splits of men and women? My immediate reaction was that a 20% No lead was relatively low for women compared to previous polls. Generalising wildly, women are more risk-averse, so No plays better with them.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunil As I said only 2 elections of the 18 since 1945 would have switched from Labour to Tory without Scotland, and in 1 of those Heath won the popular vote anyway, in the other the English Wilson had a majority of 4 and his opponent, Home, was a Scot anyway and could not have been a candidate for PM of rUK!! Night!!

    The Conservatives used to be alot stronger in Scotland.
    My Dad's cousin was SoS for Scotland and held Moray & Nairn for decades, with 60% of the vote in 1955 - it was later won by Winnie Ewing for the SNP. Rural Scotland was then seen as very traditionalist and impervious to Labour.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stuart,_1st_Viscount_Stuart_of_Findhorn

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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Tim_B said:



    'Creeping privatisation" - why is this a threat? Surely the more privatisation the less government money?

    Or is it simply - government good, business bad?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_market

    conditions for a perfect market

    -Perfect market information
    -No participant with market power to set prices
    -Non intervention by governments
    -No barriers to entry or exit
    -Equal access to factors of production
    -Profit maximization
    -No Externalities

    the closer any market fits that list the more benefit from it being private and the further away the less benefit

    for medicine i see four potential problems on that list with the first maybe the most critical
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunil As I said only 2 elections of the 18 since 1945 would have switched from Labour to Tory without Scotland, and in 1 of those Heath won the popular vote anyway, in the other the English Wilson had a majority of 4 and his opponent, Home, was a Scot anyway and could not have been a candidate for PM of rUK!! Night!!

    The Conservatives used to be alot stronger in Scotland.
    My Dad's cousin was SoS for Scotland and held Moray & Nairn for decades, with 60% of the vote in 1955 - it was later won by Winnie Ewing for the SNP. Rural Scotland was then seen as very traditionalist and impervious to Labour.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stuart,_1st_Viscount_Stuart_of_Findhorn

    To quote Humph, it sounds like you were "but one small, and entirely fatal minibus accident away from wealth, privilege and complete idleness beyond my wildest dreams" ;-)

    assuming it came with a country pile and a bucket of cash, of course!
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunil As I said only 2 elections of the 18 since 1945 would have switched from Labour to Tory without Scotland, and in 1 of those Heath won the popular vote anyway, in the other the English Wilson had a majority of 4 and his opponent, Home, was a Scot anyway and could not have been a candidate for PM of rUK!! Night!!

    The Conservatives used to be alot stronger in Scotland.
    My Dad's cousin was SoS for Scotland and held Moray & Nairn for decades, with 60% of the vote in 1955 - it was later won by Winnie Ewing for the SNP. Rural Scotland was then seen as very traditionalist and impervious to Labour.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stuart,_1st_Viscount_Stuart_of_Findhorn

    To quote Humph, it sounds like you were "but one small, and entirely fatal minibus accident away from wealth, privilege and complete idleness beyond my wildest dreams" ;-)

    assuming it came with a country pile and a bucket of cash, of course!
    Yeah. He was a younger brother, so got nothing and needed to make his own way. His older (and apparently far nicer) brother got the castle and the land. My 96-year-old aunt remembers staying at this place ("oh, it's just a country house" she says): http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/heritage/cavers-castle-seat-of-clan-douglas-up-for-sale-1-3142244

    I've been there - still an impressive ruin.

    My dad told the story of visiting the elder brother and, looking out from the ramparts, asked where the boundaries of the estate were. Stuart scratched his head and said amiably "I think they're over there somewhere", pointing vaguely at the horizon. A youthful Communist when I heard the story, I felt it was an excellent illustration of the need for a land tax on major property to nudge landowners into doing something useful with their property or sell it to someone who would. Still do, really, though I now think it's quite a nice story.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @RobD in the case of a Scottish estate, that would be a very leaky bucket...

    I hate JFK. BA got me here on time, but JFK's IT system is down, so they have kept us on the plane for 2 hours while they manually process the 800 people ahead of us in the immigration queue...

    Grumpf
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Charles said:

    @RobD in the case of a Scottish estate, that would be a very leaky bucket...

    I hate JFK. BA got me here on time, but JFK's IT system is down, so they have kept us on the plane for 2 hours while they manually process the 800 people ahead of us in the immigration queue...

    Grumpf

    One thing I can't stand about the US is queues at immigration.... grrrr, they don't even have a fast track system if you are in a premium cabin. I've missed one connection from this already, stuck in IAD where I had to queue at the United desk for another 2 hours to get rebooked on the last flight to the west coast (in addition to the 2 hours for immigration, 2 hours for security for connections). Luckily I was bumped to first on the transcon, but that's besides the point!

    By comparison, Heathrow has never been busy for me, and has always kicked off my time at home in a good way.

    On a related note, just had my first experience buying a ticket only 18 hours in advance, boy was that expensive.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,731

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunil As I said only 2 elections of the 18 since 1945 would have switched from Labour to Tory without Scotland, and in 1 of those Heath won the popular vote anyway, in the other the English Wilson had a majority of 4 and his opponent, Home, was a Scot anyway and could not have been a candidate for PM of rUK!! Night!!

    The Conservatives used to be alot stronger in Scotland.
    Rural Scotland was then seen as very traditionalist and impervious to Labour.
    The constituency I grew up in - South Angus was solidly conservative for most of its existence (1950-1983) only electing a non-Tory, the SNP, once (albeit starting off as National Liberal). One of the few Labour strongholds was probably the housing scheme I grew up on - I remember my mother commenting on the courage of the MP's wife, Sally Bruce Gardyne in canvassing it.

    There is a lovely, probably apocryphal story of an Angus farmer visiting friends in Knutsford and asking about Bruce Gardyne's majority, nodding sagely and observing "It'll no be enough for Jock..."

    In its latest incarnation it remains a two-horse race SNP/Conservative

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    @RobD in the case of a Scottish estate, that would be a very leaky bucket...

    I hate JFK. BA got me here on time, but JFK's IT system is down, so they have kept us on the plane for 2 hours while they manually process the 800 people ahead of us in the immigration queue...

    Grumpf

    One thing I can't stand about the US is queues at immigration.... grrrr, they don't even have a fast track system if you are in a premium cabin. I've missed one connection from this already, stuck in IAD where I had to queue at the United desk for another 2 hours to get rebooked on the last flight to the west coast (in addition to the 2 hours for immigration, 2 hours for security for connections). Luckily I was bumped to first on the transcon, but that's besides the point!

    By comparison, Heathrow has never been busy for me, and has always kicked off my time at home in a good way.

    On a related note, just had my first experience buying a ticket only 18 hours in advance, boy was that expensive.
    I've only once missed a flight connection, but that was because the first leg plane had a puncture and the captain thought better safe than sorry!

    Although they did once hold a plane for me at Denver - I got on board, had to walk past about 30 people and sat down. Then the captain said "Now we've finally got the last passenger onboard, we're all set to go". Man, I got some nasty looks
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    @RobD in the case of a Scottish estate, that would be a very leaky bucket...

    I hate JFK. BA got me here on time, but JFK's IT system is down, so they have kept us on the plane for 2 hours while they manually process the 800 people ahead of us in the immigration queue...

    Grumpf

    One thing I can't stand about the US is queues at immigration.... grrrr, they don't even have a fast track system if you are in a premium cabin. I've missed one connection from this already, stuck in IAD where I had to queue at the United desk for another 2 hours to get rebooked on the last flight to the west coast (in addition to the 2 hours for immigration, 2 hours for security for connections). Luckily I was bumped to first on the transcon, but that's besides the point!

    By comparison, Heathrow has never been busy for me, and has always kicked off my time at home in a good way.

    On a related note, just had my first experience buying a ticket only 18 hours in advance, boy was that expensive.
    I've only once missed a flight connection, but that was because the first leg plane had a puncture and the captain thought better safe than sorry!

    Although they did once hold a plane for me at Denver - I got on board, had to walk past about 30 people and sat down. Then the captain said "Now we've finally got the last passenger onboard, we're all set to go". Man, I got some nasty looks
    The airline's passive-aggressive way of telling you not to do that again ;-)
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    O/T on wages

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11030669/Three-reasons-why-wages-are-falling.html

    There is another, much more benign reason why wages aren’t going up: many employees have been awarded a secret pay rise in the form an extra pension contribution from their bosses.
    Needless to say, most of the beneficiaries are at best only vaguely aware of this but it means that they are actually better off than they realise.
    Under the auto-enrolment retirement reforms, which started to kick in 2012 and which will eventually become hugely significant, bosses have to add their workers into a pension scheme, in a move intended to alleviate the demographic time-bomb.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    Just woken up. In my experience women said No too often!
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    DanBarkr said:

    For comedy reporting of a poll that shows Women 60:40 against Indy (excluding DK) it would be hard to top "No lead slumps by 3% in new female only Survation poll"......

    Ahh, Scot Goes Pop. The greatest satire site there is (apart from Wings Over Scotland, maybe)
    There speaks an expert, you are certainly barking for sure.
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    To be word associated with arrogance and ambition is acceptable, the linkage to dishonesty is fatal.
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    Salmond really hasn't thought through the currency problem. AT ALL.

    Currency union is a political NoNo - English taxpayers cannot be asked to stand behind a Scottish banking system. All the main parties have unequivocally vetoed it. Eck says it will happen. But it just can't.

    A Use Pound Anyway choice, which is apparently Plan B, will destroy Scotland's economy, starting with its banking and financial services industries. A very good article from Andrew Lilico on this:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/andrewlilico/100027905/scotland-will-use-the-pound-come-what-may-when-did-the-snp-move-to-the-right-of-thatcher/

    Eck can apparently do politics but not economics. The meat of the content has now overwhelmed his ability to play the issue with bluster. There is no coherent currency plan. The emperor has no clothes and all the world is laughing.

    One of the Lilico commenters has it nicely summarised:

    Actually the Scottish vote will simply come down to a simple fact. Do the moderately intelligent outnumber the plankton? When you talk to Scots they fall into the yes and no camp generally along the lines of those who understand Mel Gibson is an Aussie and Braveheart was Hollywood fiction and those who believe it was a historical documentary.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    On topic, this is the inevitable result of the aggressive attitude of too many in the Yes campaign. Many women don't like that sort of thing. (many men don't either but the tendency's even stronger with women). The abuse and vitriol poured on anyone who has a different view is off-putting to those with an open mind who prefer more reasoned argument, or at least engagement rather than diatribe.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Eurozone :

    Germany contracts and France is flat, will Osborne repeat his mini recession to join them ?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Tut tut, so many people in this thread are going to rue the day they ever posted on PB.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Patrick said:

    Salmond really hasn't thought through the currency problem. AT ALL.

    Currency union is a political NoNo - English taxpayers cannot be asked to stand behind a Scottish banking system. All the main parties have unequivocally vetoed it. Eck says it will happen. But it just can't.

    A Use Pound Anyway choice, which is apparently Plan B, will destroy Scotland's economy, starting with its banking and financial services industries. A very good article from Andrew Lilico on this:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/andrewlilico/100027905/scotland-will-use-the-pound-come-what-may-when-did-the-snp-move-to-the-right-of-thatcher/

    Eck can apparently do politics but not economics. The meat of the content has now overwhelmed his ability to play the issue with bluster. There is no coherent currency plan. The emperor has no clothes and all the world is laughing.

    One of the Lilico commenters has it nicely summarised:

    Actually the Scottish vote will simply come down to a simple fact. Do the moderately intelligent outnumber the plankton? When you talk to Scots they fall into the yes and no camp generally along the lines of those who understand Mel Gibson is an Aussie and Braveheart was Hollywood fiction and those who believe it was a historical documentary.

    Salmond has thought through the currency problem in great detail, which is why he was trying to wing it on a wing and a prayer: that was still the best of four bad options (Sterling union, sterlingization, Euro, independent currency). Due to the EU issue, an independent currency and adopting the Euro would probably amount to the same thing in a decade's time.

    That was, of course, the original plan but after 2008, it became politically unsaleable. Ever since, there's not really been a good option due to the EU issue. Funnily, the one option that might work - an independent currency with Scotland outside the EU but within the EEA - has been barely discussed. The objective of EU membership is taken as a policy almost axiomatically.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Patrick said:

    Salmond really hasn't thought through the currency problem. AT ALL.

    Currency union is a political NoNo - English taxpayers cannot be asked to stand behind a Scottish banking system. All the main parties have unequivocally vetoed it. Eck says it will happen. But it just can't.

    A Use Pound Anyway choice, which is apparently Plan B, will destroy Scotland's economy, starting with its banking and financial services industries. A very good article from Andrew Lilico on this:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/andrewlilico/100027905/scotland-will-use-the-pound-come-what-may-when-did-the-snp-move-to-the-right-of-thatcher/

    Eck can apparently do politics but not economics. The meat of the content has now overwhelmed his ability to play the issue with bluster. There is no coherent currency plan. The emperor has no clothes and all the world is laughing.

    One of the Lilico commenters has it nicely summarised:

    Actually the Scottish vote will simply come down to a simple fact. Do the moderately intelligent outnumber the plankton? When you talk to Scots they fall into the yes and no camp generally along the lines of those who understand Mel Gibson is an Aussie and Braveheart was Hollywood fiction and those who believe it was a historical documentary.

    I think that Salmond is hoping that he average Scot does not understand the significance of not having control over a central bank or the importance of a good credit history.

    A rash gamble, but perhaps one that he has to take in the absence of a viable plan B.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    @RobD in the case of a Scottish estate, that would be a very leaky bucket...

    I hate JFK. BA got me here on time, but JFK's IT system is down, so they have kept us on the plane for 2 hours while they manually process the 800 people ahead of us in the immigration queue...

    Grumpf

    One thing I can't stand about the US is queues at immigration.... grrrr, they don't even have a fast track system if you are in a premium cabin. I've missed one connection from this already, stuck in IAD where I had to queue at the United desk for another 2 hours to get rebooked on the last flight to the west coast (in addition to the 2 hours for immigration, 2 hours for security for connections). Luckily I was bumped to first on the transcon, but that's besides the point!

    By comparison, Heathrow has never been busy for me, and has always kicked off my time at home in a good way.

    On a related note, just had my first experience buying a ticket only 18 hours in advance, boy was that expensive.
    Work related so claimable I assume :) ?

    Chile ?
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Women don't like Jabba the Hut. Well I'd never have guessed that.
  • Options

    Patrick said:

    Salmond really hasn't thought through the currency problem. AT ALL.

    Currency union is a political NoNo - English taxpayers cannot be asked to stand behind a Scottish banking system. All the main parties have unequivocally vetoed it. Eck says it will happen. But it just can't.

    A Use Pound Anyway choice, which is apparently Plan B, will destroy Scotland's economy, starting with its banking and financial services industries. A very good article from Andrew Lilico on this:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/andrewlilico/100027905/scotland-will-use-the-pound-come-what-may-when-did-the-snp-move-to-the-right-of-thatcher/

    Eck can apparently do politics but not economics. The meat of the content has now overwhelmed his ability to play the issue with bluster. There is no coherent currency plan. The emperor has no clothes and all the world is laughing.

    One of the Lilico commenters has it nicely summarised:

    Actually the Scottish vote will simply come down to a simple fact. Do the moderately intelligent outnumber the plankton? When you talk to Scots they fall into the yes and no camp generally along the lines of those who understand Mel Gibson is an Aussie and Braveheart was Hollywood fiction and those who believe it was a historical documentary.

    Salmond has thought through the currency problem in great detail, which is why he was trying to wing it on a wing and a prayer: that was still the best of four bad options (Sterling union, sterlingization, Euro, independent currency). Due to the EU issue, an independent currency and adopting the Euro would probably amount to the same thing in a decade's time.

    That was, of course, the original plan but after 2008, it became politically unsaleable. Ever since, there's not really been a good option due to the EU issue. Funnily, the one option that might work - an independent currency with Scotland outside the EU but within the EEA - has been barely discussed. The objective of EU membership is taken as a policy almost axiomatically.
    The only potentially viable solution is a new fully independent currency.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    OT the Americans seem to have gone off the idea of rescuing Yazidis from the mountains, but David Cameron has already said Britain will play its part in the rescue.

    Shades of the Juncker debacle? The Prime Minister making rash promises based on what he expects other countries to do?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044


    Yeah. He was a younger brother, so got nothing and needed to make his own way. His older (and apparently far nicer) brother got the castle and the land. My 96-year-old aunt remembers staying at this place ("oh, it's just a country house" she says): http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/heritage/cavers-castle-seat-of-clan-douglas-up-for-sale-1-3142244

    I've been there - still an impressive ruin.

    My dad told the story of visiting the elder brother and, looking out from the ramparts, asked where the boundaries of the estate were. Stuart scratched his head and said amiably "I think they're over there somewhere", pointing vaguely at the horizon. A youthful Communist when I heard the story, I felt it was an excellent illustration of the need for a land tax on major property to nudge landowners into doing something useful with their property or sell it to someone who would. Still do, really, though I now think it's quite a nice story.

    The problem with taxing 'major' property is that it it led to a cultural wasteland.

    The values are in the houses rather than land, which, due to size and prominence, have high values (even if those values were unrealisable). Once the owning family had sold paintings and land and held country house auctions over a couple of generations, there is no way to pay the tax. Worse, as land is sold, the income from that land reduces, meaning the cycle worsens.

    The only options were to try to sell (and there were not that many buyers pre-NT and large hotel chains), remove the roof (thereby making it not a house, but destroying the property), re-purposing (difficult at best) or outright demolition.

    This led to a shocking rate of destruction of houses during the twentieth century, many of which are still missed.

    Yes, there was undoubtedly some incompetence on the part of the landowners in the face of changing times and labour requirements. But death and other taxes played a much bigger part, as did the lack of reparations for property requisitioned during the war.

    For evidence, exhibit a:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_country_houses_in_20th-century_Britain

    exhibit b: New Slains Castle, Aberdeen. A property which, if I had more money than God, I would restore into a single home (rather than the current plan for flats). Spectacular ruins and location. The roof was removed to avoid taxes, and a gem was lost.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Slains_Castle
    http://www.buildingsatrisk.org.uk/details/903870

    The country is much poorer as a result of these idiotic policies.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    @RobD in the case of a Scottish estate, that would be a very leaky bucket...

    I hate JFK. BA got me here on time, but JFK's IT system is down, so they have kept us on the plane for 2 hours while they manually process the 800 people ahead of us in the immigration queue...

    Grumpf

    One thing I can't stand about the US is queues at immigration.... grrrr, they don't even have a fast track system if you are in a premium cabin. I've missed one connection from this already, stuck in IAD where I had to queue at the United desk for another 2 hours to get rebooked on the last flight to the west coast (in addition to the 2 hours for immigration, 2 hours for security for connections). Luckily I was bumped to first on the transcon, but that's besides the point!

    By comparison, Heathrow has never been busy for me, and has always kicked off my time at home in a good way.

    On a related note, just had my first experience buying a ticket only 18 hours in advance, boy was that expensive.
    Work related so claimable I assume :) ?

    Chile ?
    Just a short flight, but cost me just as much! And unfortunately not, which makes it worse!
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @DecrepitJohnL
    On the other hand, both America and the UK now have special forces in place without any outcry about "boots on the ground".
  • Options
    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Morning all just loved this tweet from the parody profile of HM:
    Elizabeth Windsor @Queen_UK
    A-Level results are in: Cameron - C in media studies; Clegg - failed politics; Miliband - F in spoken English. Awkward. #alevelresults
  • Options
    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    This one is even better:
    Elizabeth Windsor @Queen_UK
    Alex Salmond goes to an independent school. He gets his results on 18th September. #alevelresults
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    Patrick said:

    Salmond really hasn't thought through the currency problem. AT ALL.

    Currency union is a political NoNo - English taxpayers cannot be asked to stand behind a Scottish banking system. All the main parties have unequivocally vetoed it. Eck says it will happen. But it just can't.

    A Use Pound Anyway choice, which is apparently Plan B, will destroy Scotland's economy, starting with its banking and financial services industries. A very good article from Andrew Lilico on this:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/andrewlilico/100027905/scotland-will-use-the-pound-come-what-may-when-did-the-snp-move-to-the-right-of-thatcher/

    Eck can apparently do politics but not economics. The meat of the content has now overwhelmed his ability to play the issue with bluster. There is no coherent currency plan. The emperor has no clothes and all the world is laughing.

    One of the Lilico commenters has it nicely summarised:

    Actually the Scottish vote will simply come down to a simple fact. Do the moderately intelligent outnumber the plankton? When you talk to Scots they fall into the yes and no camp generally along the lines of those who understand Mel Gibson is an Aussie and Braveheart was Hollywood fiction and those who believe it was a historical documentary.

    That just about sums up why people should vote YES. Turnips from down south who believe they are clever and that anybody north of Watford is stupid and should just doff their cap and keep sending them their money.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969


    Yeah. He was a younger brother, so got nothing and needed to make his own way. His older (and apparently far nicer) brother got the castle and the land. My 96-year-old aunt remembers staying at this place ("oh, it's just a country house" she says): http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/heritage/cavers-castle-seat-of-clan-douglas-up-for-sale-1-3142244

    I've been there - still an impressive ruin.

    My dad told the story of visiting the elder brother and, looking out from the ramparts, asked where the boundaries of the estate were. Stuart scratched his head and said amiably "I think they're over there somewhere", pointing vaguely at the horizon. A youthful Communist when I heard the story, I felt it was an excellent illustration of the need for a land tax on major property to nudge landowners into doing something useful with their property or sell it to someone who would. Still do, really, though I now think it's quite a nice story.

    The problem with taxing 'major' property is that it it led to a cultural wasteland.

    The values are in the houses rather than land, which, due to size and prominence, have high values (even if those values were unrealisable). Once the owning family had sold paintings and land and held country house auctions over a couple of generations, there is no way to pay the tax. Worse, as land is sold, the income from that land reduces, meaning the cycle worsens.

    The only options were to try to sell (and there were not that many buyers pre-NT and large hotel chains), remove the roof (thereby making it not a house, but destroying the property), re-purposing (difficult at best) or outright demolition.

    This led to a shocking rate of destruction of houses during the twentieth century, many of which are still missed.

    Yes, there was undoubtedly some incompetence on the part of the landowners in the face of changing times and labour requirements. But death and other taxes played a much bigger part, as did the lack of reparations for property requisitioned during the war.

    For evidence, exhibit a:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_country_houses_in_20th-century_Britain

    exhibit b: New Slains Castle, Aberdeen. A property which, if I had more money than God, I would restore into a single home (rather than the current plan for flats). Spectacular ruins and location. The roof was removed to avoid taxes, and a gem was lost.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Slains_Castle
    http://www.buildingsatrisk.org.uk/details/903870

    The country is much poorer as a result of these idiotic policies.
    I'm ignorant in these matters. Why does removing a roof exempt it from taxation (death duty, I assume?)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    Salmond really hasn't thought through the currency problem. AT ALL.

    Currency union is a political NoNo - English taxpayers cannot be asked to stand behind a Scottish banking system. All the main parties have unequivocally vetoed it. Eck says it will happen. But it just can't.

    A Use Pound Anyway choice, which is apparently Plan B, will destroy Scotland's economy, starting with its banking and financial services industries. A very good article from Andrew Lilico on this:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/andrewlilico/100027905/scotland-will-use-the-pound-come-what-may-when-did-the-snp-move-to-the-right-of-thatcher/

    Eck can apparently do politics but not economics. The meat of the content has now overwhelmed his ability to play the issue with bluster. There is no coherent currency plan. The emperor has no clothes and all the world is laughing.

    One of the Lilico commenters has it nicely summarised:

    Actually the Scottish vote will simply come down to a simple fact. Do the moderately intelligent outnumber the plankton? When you talk to Scots they fall into the yes and no camp generally along the lines of those who understand Mel Gibson is an Aussie and Braveheart was Hollywood fiction and those who believe it was a historical documentary.

    Salmond has thought through the currency problem in great detail, which is why he was trying to wing it on a wing and a prayer: that was still the best of four bad options (Sterling union, sterlingization, Euro, independent currency). Due to the EU issue, an independent currency and adopting the Euro would probably amount to the same thing in a decade's time.

    That was, of course, the original plan but after 2008, it became politically unsaleable. Ever since, there's not really been a good option due to the EU issue. Funnily, the one option that might work - an independent currency with Scotland outside the EU but within the EEA - has been barely discussed. The objective of EU membership is taken as a policy almost axiomatically.
    The only potentially viable solution is a new fully independent currency.
    Ha Ha Ha , this site is full of experts, it is risible the pish that is posted on here by dummies who must struggle to tie their shoelaces given the guff they come out with.
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    Salmond really hasn't thought through the currency problem. AT ALL.

    Currency union is a political NoNo - English taxpayers cannot be asked to stand behind a Scottish banking system. All the main parties have unequivocally vetoed it. Eck says it will happen. But it just can't.

    A Use Pound Anyway choice, which is apparently Plan B, will destroy Scotland's economy, starting with its banking and financial services industries. A very good article from Andrew Lilico on this:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/andrewlilico/100027905/scotland-will-use-the-pound-come-what-may-when-did-the-snp-move-to-the-right-of-thatcher/

    Eck can apparently do politics but not economics. The meat of the content has now overwhelmed his ability to play the issue with bluster. There is no coherent currency plan. The emperor has no clothes and all the world is laughing.

    One of the Lilico commenters has it nicely summarised:

    Actually the Scottish vote will simply come down to a simple fact. Do the moderately intelligent outnumber the plankton? When you talk to Scots they fall into the yes and no camp generally along the lines of those who understand Mel Gibson is an Aussie and Braveheart was Hollywood fiction and those who believe it was a historical documentary.

    That just about sums up why people should vote YES. Turnips from down south who believe they are clever and that anybody north of Watford is stupid and should just doff their cap and keep sending them their money.
    Hey PlanktonG

    Where do YOU think Scotland's lender of last resort should reside - Edinburgh, London or Brussels? Because that's where the ultimate power lies. Eck says London!
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @RobD
    The tax was levied on "habitable" buildings, it was the same when a window tax was imposed, they bricked up windows, and I believe something similar happened when the number of chimneys were liable for tax.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    Smarmeron said:

    @DecrepitJohnL
    On the other hand, both America and the UK now have special forces in place without any outcry about "boots on the ground".

    Yes and already decided they would get a doing and are backing off pronto.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Morning all just loved this tweet from the parody profile of HM:
    Elizabeth Windsor @Queen_UK
    A-Level results are in: Cameron - C in media studies; Clegg - failed politics; Miliband - F in spoken English. Awkward. #alevelresults

    Queen_UK is a particularly enjoyable parody account. I also like the Angela Merkel one.. Queen_Europe (ha ha!)
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Smarmeron said:

    @RobD
    The tax was levied on "habitable" buildings, it was the same when a window tax was imposed, they bricked up windows, and I believe something similar happened when the number of chimneys were liable for tax.

    Thanks, was it levied based on size, number of rooms?
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @malcolmg
    I daresay they will remain for a while to enjoy a little sightseeing.
  • Options
    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Re Nick's comment about country estates, I am surrounded by beautiful houses which are lying derelict because of the crazy 'chip on the shoulder' policies of the mid 20th century. City dwellers simply don't understand that these big houses were the rural equivalent of the tree roots which bind the ground together. Once the big house goes, the community which existed around it to service it started to fall apart.

    One of my friends faced with crippling taxes from the Wilson governments, filled his castle with straw bales, warned the fire service it was not an emergency and then set fire to it. He then sold the stone in the pile of rubble left behind to a major industrial company which used it as filling for the foundations of a factory which itself closed 10 years later.

    When AM and his wife moved from the castle into a bungalow in the former grounds, the entire staff who had supported the estate lost their jobs. The stuffing had been knocked out of him and he eventually sold most of the remaining land for road widening and housing.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    Salmond really hasn't thought through the currency problem. AT ALL.

    Currency union is a political NoNo - English taxpayers cannot be asked to stand behind a Scottish banking system. All the main parties have unequivocally vetoed it. Eck says it will happen. But it just can't.

    A Use Pound Anyway choice, which is apparently Plan B, will destroy Scotland's economy, starting with its banking and financial services industries. A very good article from Andrew Lilico on this:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/andrewlilico/100027905/scotland-will-use-the-pound-come-what-may-when-did-the-snp-move-to-the-right-of-thatcher/

    Eck can apparently do politics but not economics. The meat of the content has now overwhelmed his ability to play the issue with bluster. There is no coherent currency plan. The emperor has no clothes and all the world is laughing.

    One of the Lilico commenters has it nicely summarised:

    Actually the Scottish vote will simply come down to a simple fact. Do the moderately intelligent outnumber the plankton? When you talk to Scots they fall into the yes and no camp generally along the lines of those who understand Mel Gibson is an Aussie and Braveheart was Hollywood fiction and those who believe it was a historical documentary.

    That just about sums up why people should vote YES. Turnips from down south who believe they are clever and that anybody north of Watford is stupid and should just doff their cap and keep sending them their money.
    Hey PlanktonG

    Where do YOU think Scotland's lender of last resort should reside - Edinburgh, London or Brussels? Because that's where the ultimate power lies. Eck says London!
    Hey Turnip , Initially he is correct , later who knows and despite your optimism it is not where the power lies. If you are not bankrupting the country a la UK then you don't need to worry about bankruptcy.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @RobD
    I am not sure how it was calculated, some of our more well heeled posters will be better able to tell you the method used.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Good morning, everyone.

    FPT: Mr. Owl, I agree entirely. An English Parliament is necessary, shitty little regional assemblies would be despicable.

    On-topic: I concur a male-only poll should have been done alongside this. Also, are women likelier to turn out than men? I have a notion they are.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Morris_Dancer
    So you are not in favour of Dave's "localism" then?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Women don't like Jabba the Hut. Well I'd never have guessed that.

    To be fair on Salmond, he has lost a lot of weight recently, though often looks haggard rather than slim.

    I also think he is not as good with money or negotiations as Jabba the Hut!
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    RobD said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @RobD
    The tax was levied on "habitable" buildings, it was the same when a window tax was imposed, they bricked up windows, and I believe something similar happened when the number of chimneys were liable for tax.

    Thanks, was it levied based on size, number of rooms?
    Key point it shows is that they have been evading tax by any and all means for centuries, nothing changes.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,141
    DanBarkr said:

    For comedy reporting of a poll that shows Women 60:40 against Indy (excluding DK) it would be hard to top "No lead slumps by 3% in new female only Survation poll"......

    Ahh, Scot Goes Pop. The greatest satire site there is (apart from Wings Over Scotland, maybe)
    And yet it seems to hold a hypnotic attraction for the denizens of PB. A shame none of them have the courage to use their monikers when they make their occasional 'contributions'.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997

    Good morning, everyone.

    FPT: Mr. Owl, I agree entirely. An English Parliament is necessary, shitty little regional assemblies would be despicable.

    On-topic: I concur a male-only poll should have been done alongside this. Also, are women likelier to turn out than men? I have a notion they are.

    I think not MD, they have rather more on their plate and I would expect less likely to vote. Would be interesting to see statistics from previous elections on the reality.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited August 2014
    If we're on gender differences in polling then there's an interesting difference between men and women in most recent polls in terms of the number who say "don't know". In the format {Pollster: Female don't know - Male don't know} the most recent polls from a choice of four pollsters is:

    ICM: 28% - 16%
    Populus: 25% - 11%
    YouGov: 17% - 9%
    Ashcroft: 13% - 11%

    I haven't checked to see whether this difference was also in the polling before the last general election, but it suggests that the parties would be well advised to work out what these undecided women are waiting for to make up their minds.

    Also, do we have to add a certain charm with the ladies to the list of Ashcroft's abilities to explain why it is that he manages to receive a more decisive response?
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Smarmeron said:

    @DecrepitJohnL
    On the other hand, both America and the UK now have special forces in place without any outcry about "boots on the ground".

    The point was rather that Cameron seems to be gambling by making grand gestures based on what he expects other countries to do for him -- Germany blocking Juncker; America in Iraq.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044
    RobD said:



    I'm ignorant in these matters. Why does removing a roof exempt it from taxation (death duty, I assume?)

    See Smarmeron's answer below. But I'd go further: because the people who proposed the tax were cultural vandals. They knew what they were doing. It was class warfare writ large.

    I feel fairly strongly about this: as someone who likes (in an amateur way) architecture, what happened between 1900 and 1970 was an absolute travesty. True, some of those destroyed were architecturally unimportant, but most were at least of local importance.

    These taxes cannot even have raised that much money in the grand scheme of things.

    Read the following and weep:
    http://lh.matthewbeckett.com/lh_complete_list.html
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997

    DanBarkr said:

    For comedy reporting of a poll that shows Women 60:40 against Indy (excluding DK) it would be hard to top "No lead slumps by 3% in new female only Survation poll"......

    Ahh, Scot Goes Pop. The greatest satire site there is (apart from Wings Over Scotland, maybe)
    And yet it seems to hold a hypnotic attraction for the denizens of PB. A shame none of them have the courage to use their monikers when they make their occasional 'contributions'.
    They do not have the balls to be anything other than anonymous , your typical mealy mouthed unionist.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    OT the Americans seem to have gone off the idea of rescuing Yazidis from the mountains, but David Cameron has already said Britain will play its part in the rescue.

    Shades of the Juncker debacle? The Prime Minister making rash promises based on what he expects other countries to do?

    Yes silly old us being prepared for the worst...

  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Smarmeron, cutting England into pieces isn't localism, it'd be buggering up a land about a thousand years old when an English Parliament is the only proper solution.

    Mr. L, Merkel backtracked on Juncker. Hardly Cameron's fault.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited August 2014
    @DecrepitJohnL
    It would have been great headlines if the "Chinooks" had been used to evacuate the refugees, with the help of the SAS. All politicians will jump at a chance like that.
    The usual job of special forces tends to be less newsworthy, but invaluable despite it's secrecy.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Re: YouGov: 34/36/10/12/4

    This could be a bit of a outlier.
    The 2010 LD split today is: LAB:28; LDs:39!

    This is contrary to the pattern for this month (and most of June & July) where the previous polls have shown the split nearly always in favour of LAB. In fact it is the highest LD retention since mid-May.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:


    They do not have the balls to be anything other than anonymous , your typical mealy mouthed unionist.

    If only people would post under their real names like Theuniondivvie...
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Morris_Dancer
    The argument is that different regions need different priorities, a devolution of powers under the oversight of a central parliament has always made sense.
    Unfortunately, every time it gets tried, we end up with another level of government, and London claws back the powers.
    It needs a radical rethink, and our governments do "radical" in name only.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    So, the Americans have backtracked on the rescue?

    I'm very surprised by that, if it's the case. Surely fewer people being there makes a rescue easier?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    Financier said:

    Re: YouGov: 34/36/10/12/4

    This could be a bit of a outlier.
    The 2010 LD split today is: LAB:28; LDs:39!

    This is contrary to the pattern for this month (and most of June & July) where the previous polls have shown the split nearly always in favour of LAB. In fact it is the highest LD retention since mid-May.

    Something to do with Clegg and Cable’s stance on export licences to Israel, perhaps?
  • Options

    Women don't like Jabba the Hut. Well I'd never have guessed that.

    To be fair on Salmond, he has lost a lot of weight recently, though often looks haggard rather than slim.

    I also think he is not as good with money or negotiations as Jabba the Hut!
    I believe that Salmond moved from behind his lectern and advanced towards the audience during the debate to show off his new figure. I was aghast at the wizened horror thus revealed.

  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Smarmeron, division of England is a recipe for, er, division of England.

    Scotland isn't one uniform blob. It's got Lowlands, Highlands, Islands, many rural areas, large cities and so on and so forth. Somehow the Scots have managed to make a single Parliament work.

    If it's good enough for the Scots, it's good enough for the English.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Morris_Dancer
    There were fewer people on the mountain mainly because they were making their own way out under the cover of darkness.
    A big country, and not that many insurgents to form stable lines made it comparatively easy.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341

    RobD said:



    I'm ignorant in these matters. Why does removing a roof exempt it from taxation (death duty, I assume?)

    See Smarmeron's answer below. But I'd go further: because the people who proposed the tax were cultural vandals. They knew what they were doing. It was class warfare writ large.

    I feel fairly strongly about this: as someone who likes (in an amateur way) architecture, what happened between 1900 and 1970 was an absolute travesty. True, some of those destroyed were architecturally unimportant, but most were at least of local importance.

    These taxes cannot even have raised that much money in the grand scheme of things.

    Read the following and weep:
    http://lh.matthewbeckett.com/lh_complete_list.html
    Surely the vandals were those who purposely damaged and/or destroyed houses of significant cultural value simply to avoid paying tax?
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