I didn't like the way Salmond kept walking out in front of his lectern - it was as if he was trying to gain an unfair advantage. As a result he appeared rightly or wrongly to be something of a cheat, having clearly rehearsed this particular tactic.
Salmond is asking people to vote for an unknown situation. I can't see how he can win, unless he is willing to answer some of the economic questions. Not convinced on currency, Scottish banks still being HQ'd in Scotland and pensions.
The story of tonight is management expectations and to learn how to answer questions. Salmond fell into Darlings traps too many times and was pretty stupid to talk about aliens for five minutes.
The story of tonight is management expectations and to learn how to answer questions. Salmond fell into Darlings traps too many times and was pretty stupid to talk about aliens for five minutes.
That was unbelievable, as was the right side of the road stuff. Too often Salmond seemed to be speaking to people who have already decided to vote Yes.
The story of tonight is management expectations and to learn how to answer questions. Salmond fell into Darlings traps too many times and was pretty stupid to talk about aliens for five minutes.
That was unbelievable, as was the right side of the road stuff. Too often Salmond seemed to be speaking to people who have already decided to vote Yes.
I thought the cross ex part of the debate was excellent. Never thought of Darling as such a good debater before.
I thought the STV decision to break the debate and go to to mid debate spin was baffling.
Once the Cross Ex bit finished I thought the debate lost a lot of steam. Until Salmond can answer the question as to what currency they will have if they can't have the pound he is finished.
I find it shocking that STV can't be bothered to apologise when so many people couldn't watch the debate because it's player crashed. It is also very poor that ITV don't think that losing one quarter of the UK is important enough to postpone Corrie or whatever other tripe they were showing.
SeanT No, most polls show voters think both Israel and Hamas are as bad as each other. Muslims rarely vote Tory, Jews and Hindus lean more in the Tory direction and there is no love lost between those groups and the Muslim community
The story of tonight is management expectations and to learn how to answer questions. Salmond fell into Darlings traps too many times and was pretty stupid to talk about aliens for five minutes.
That was unbelievable, as was the right side of the road stuff. Too often Salmond seemed to be speaking to people who have already decided to vote Yes.
SeanT No, most polls show voters think both Israel and Hamas are as bad as each other. Muslims rarely vote Tory, Jews and Hindus lean more in the Tory direction and there is no love lost between those groups and the Muslim community
I'm a Hindu and agree with SeanT - Cameron has been pathetically weak and it will cost him...
I thought the audience did very well - judging the neo-fangled politics style of seriousness with a peppering of the surreal (Salmond - Fail).
The commentators afterwards wanted to give it to the chairman, and I was tempted to agree - but some of his questions (as opposed to his manners and interruptions) were a little bit aggressive for my liking, although, as an entertaining debate actor (there's a better social science word I was aiming for there I think) he gets full marks
SeanT No, most polls show voters think both Israel and Hamas are as bad as each other. Muslims rarely vote Tory, Jews and Hindus lean more in the Tory direction and there is no love lost between those groups and the Muslim community
62% of Britons don't just disagree with Israel, they think Israel has committed War Crimes.
Ministers say they are being "deluged" with mail and emails condemning Netanyahu. Yet Cameron STILL refuses to categorically condemn the vapourisation of small Gazan children, because he is reliant on Jewish voters and powerful Jewish donors.
Cameron is a c*nt. To hell with him.
It's an easy political steal for Miliband, and he's taking it, by condemning Likud. Good luck to him. I barely care who wins any more. I will still be rich and have an incredibly nubile, submissive, pretty, blonde 26 year old girlfriend.
How is Farage doing on this issue? Is he pro-genocide?
If we are going to have debates next year, can I make the following requests to the broadcasters
1) No effing audience participation, they should sit there in silence
2) No sodding spin room
3) No fecking adverts
That said, it was probably the best debate in UK Political history
1) They were very loud - there's a happy medium to be found presumably - I believe the Edinburgh festival is on so maybe its heckling ethiecette was flowing through Scotland's atmosphere.
2) They only went to the spin room at the end - I thought the interruptions with the commentators made it a lot more watchable than a non-stop would have.
Why don't people rate Darling more highly? He was the only member of the Labour Party to openly talk about the true depth of the financial crisis at the time, and got it in the neck from his colleagues when he said "worst for 60 years" — which turned out to be an optimistic assessment of the situation — nobody else would face up to the mess that had been made. He also prevented Ed Balls from becoming Chancellor, and reigned in Brown's economic plans pre-election. He even spelt out how bad the inevitable austerity would be.
Darling is a decent man, who has consistently tried to do the best for out country, sometimes in opposition to his own party. It does not surprise me one iota that he can beat a chump like Salmond.
Alastair Darling emerged as a semi-clear winner of the Scottish Independence debate, according to ICM Director Martin Boon, who points to the polling showing that the former chancellor convinced 56% of the 512 survey participants that he was the better man on the night. 44% opted for Salmond.
Boon adds:
Darling performed more solidly among No supporters – securing 93% of them who told us their man won, compared to only 82% of Yes supporters who said Salmond won.
And Darling won on the arguments – a majority (51%) said so, with 40% saying Salmond had the better ideas.
On the other hand, Salmond’s undoubted personality helped win over viewers, with 47% saying the First Minister had the better personaility compared to only 39% who said so for Darling.
But the question is how does this impact on indy vote intentions? The answer is ‘not much’.
Of the sample who participated after the debate, views did not move – 53% said they intended to vote No beforehand, and the same figures emerged afterwards. So Darling won on the night, but voters remain steadfast in the way they plan to vote.
Why don't people rate Darling more highly? He was the only member of the Labour Party to openly talk about the true depth of the financial crisis at the time, and got it in the neck from his colleagues when he said "worst for 60 years" — which turned out to be an optimistic assessment of the situation — nobody else would face up to the mess that had been made. He also prevented Ed Balls from becoming Chancellor, and reigned in Brown's economic plans pre-election. He even spelt out how bad the inevitable austerity would be.
Darling is a decent man, who has consistently tried to do the best for out country, sometimes in opposition to his own party. It does not surprise me one iota that he can beat a chump like Salmond.
I agree he seems a decent man but wasn't his budget forecast out by about half a trillion!
Miliband will be the PM if Cameron doesn't grasp bandwagon situations,like Gaza,energy companies and so on and keeps letting miliband in first.
That's the problem with British politics, especially Labour, the public have too often been offered facile solutions and then complain about the bad result after they have voted for them.
I agree he seems a decent man but wasn't his budget forecast out by about half a trillion!
It was, but you must recall he had recently taken over from a Mr. Brown who had handed over the job just before the proverbial hit the fan. I don't think Darling should shoulder too much of the blame for that particular forecast.
Relying on the MO after all their failures over the barbecue summer that never was, the last winter being warmer and drier than average.....ahem. No Summer Arctic Sea Ice by 2013 said in 2007. Why anyone pays attention to them any more is beyond me - they simply are clueless. And they're just as clueless about the outlook for the rest of this month, when the WARMTH is going to take people by surprise. And it won't be due to AGW but the position of the jet stream.
Agree about Darling. I think he is generally a decent man who genuinely tried his best - Imagine being Gordon Brown's Chancellor!!!!
Remember when Brown tried to sack him and he just flat out refused to budge, LOL?
If Labour had had the courage to get rid of El Gord , Darling could have been a "safe pair of hands" leader and might quite possibly have pulled off a shock 1992 style comeback win I think.
Miliband will be the PM if Cameron doesn't grasp bandwagon situations,like Gaza,energy companies and so on and keeps letting miliband in first.
That's the problem with British politics, especially Labour, the public have too often been offered facile solutions and then complain about the bad result after they have voted for them.
Agree,should be fun watching a cutting labour government and miliband keeping his bandwagon pledges ;-)
SeanT Most voters also think Hamas is wrong to launch rockets into Israel. The election will be decided by UKIP voters, more of whom support Israel over Palestine, they are the voters the Tories need to win and Cameron knows it!!
I would also still expect you and your nubile young lady friend to prefer a Cameron to a Miliband led government, particularly as a UK which has gone bust is hardly going to be great for your income and savings
I agree he seems a decent man but wasn't his budget forecast out by about half a trillion!
It was, but you must recall he had recently taken over from a Mr. Brown who had handed over the job just before the proverbial hit the fan. I don't think Darling should shoulder too much of the blame for that particular forecast.
If anybody thinks Israel/Gaza will be an important issue at the next election they are crazy.
As for Baroness Warsi, it's unfortunate that she has resigned but these things happen from time to time to ALL governments.
It annoys me how the media have to hype up every passing squall and storm that all governments go through as some end of the world type crisis.
Would it be better if Warsi hadn't resigned? Yes.
Will she be missed? Yes.
Is it the end of the world for the government? No.
Is it the end for Cameron? No.
Will this register at the election? LOL!
Cameron is scraping the barrel to get a majority, or even a plurality, at the next GE. Every vote will count.
Like it or not, Britain's now very sizeable Muslim minority will sway a dozen seats, maybe more. I suspect, post Warsi/Gaza, that these votes are now entirely lost to the Tories, meaning Labour will more likely win.
Cf the Republicans and Hispanic voters in the US.
Cameron should have had the cullions to come out and say what he surely believes, that Israel's attack was disproportionate and morally wrong.
Cameron is a curious fellow. Ambitious yet feeble.
Agree,just proving our point,he's a good man but crap at politics.
Relying on the MO after all their failures over the barbecue summer that never was, the last winter being warmer and drier than average.....ahem. No Summer Arctic Sea Ice by 2013 said in 2007. Why anyone pays attention to them any more is beyond me - they simply are clueless. And they're just as clueless about the outlook for the rest of this month, when the WARMTH is going to take people by surprise. And it won't be due to AGW but the position of the jet stream.
Please give me evidence that the MO said there would be no Summer Arctic Sea Ice by 2013. 2012 remains a very low record - unlikely to beat it this year, though will be another year where Arctic Sea Ice will be well below average.
Off topic, this Warsi stuff is BAD for Cameron. Because Cameron is a pathetic coward.
Ed Miliband will be prime minister of a still United Kingdom, in 2015. Not brilliant, but better than Partition.
Warsi who by the weekend,
Quite. What actually has Warsi ever achieved as a Minister? If recent reports are to be believed, she refused to implement the Prime Minister's policy on preventing extremism within the Muslim community. Frankly, she should have been sacked for that.
On a huge day of Blue on Blue incoming, the missiles have been too many to count. In other news..... My election predictor "The Lambert & Butler Election quantifier (Pony Juice derivitive) Southend on Sea schedule with 6,852 runs" now only shows the chance of a Tory Majority at 2,102%, Chance of Tory most seats 2,549%, Chance of Labour most seats 0.00000000000001%, chance of Labour majority 0%. Of course like any good election predictor, there will be one huge effing swing in it's results to whatever the polls say in the last few weeks and I will declare it as being very successful.
Ed is Crap!....Basil is knackered. Onward young squirrel, there is a long way to go.
Off topic, this Warsi stuff is BAD for Cameron. Because Cameron is a pathetic coward.
Ed Miliband will be prime minister of a still United Kingdom, in 2015. Not brilliant, but better than Partition.
Warsi who by the weekend,
Quite. What actually has Warsi ever achieved as a Minister? If recent reports are to be believed, she refused to implement the Prime Minister's policy on preventing extremism within the Muslim community. Frankly, she should have been sacked for that.
Well there were plenty of loyal pb tories saying how good she was when she was a minister . Strange how they now think she was no good now after she resigned .
Off topic, this Warsi stuff is BAD for Cameron. Because Cameron is a pathetic coward.
Ed Miliband will be prime minister of a still United Kingdom, in 2015. Not brilliant, but better than Partition.
Warsi who by the weekend,
Quite. What actually has Warsi ever achieved as a Minister? If recent reports are to be believed, she refused to implement the Prime Minister's policy on preventing extremism within the Muslim community. Frankly, she should have been sacked for that.
Well there were plenty of loyal pb tories saying how good she was when she was a minister . Strange how they now think she was no good now after she resigned .
I must admit I am the reverse. I never really rated her when she was a minister. No real cock ups, just not really making her mark.
But her very principled resignation has certainly made me reconsider my view of her in a positive way.
Comments
34/38/6/13
"Game, set and match to Alex Salmond. Flipper flopped."
And, truly loopy:
"First thoughts on the debate…come into my parlour said the spider to the fly.
Alecs banking on Cameron watching this and thinking “I can take him”.
Bar that,Darling was a numpty…what else could he be?
P.S. Don’t care about rallying cries.Who needs them when we’re winning."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2716872/A-substantial-minority-Labour-MPs-not-think-Ed-Miliband-win-Diane-Abbott-reveals-fundraising-dinner.html
Where Ed leads the others fall into line
I thought the STV decision to break the debate and go to to mid debate spin was baffling.
Once the Cross Ex bit finished I thought the debate lost a lot of steam. Until Salmond can answer the question as to what currency they will have if they can't have the pound he is finished.
I find it shocking that STV can't be bothered to apologise when so many people couldn't watch the debate because it's player crashed. It is also very poor that ITV don't think that losing one quarter of the UK is important enough to postpone Corrie or whatever other tripe they were showing.
1) No effing audience participation, they should sit there in silence
2) No sodding spin room
3) No fecking adverts
That said, it was probably the best debate in UK Political history
The commentators afterwards wanted to give it to the chairman, and I was tempted to agree - but some of his questions (as opposed to his manners and interruptions) were a little bit aggressive for my liking, although, as an entertaining debate actor (there's a better social science word I was aiming for there I think) he gets full marks
Scottish Independence: The Fantasy vs The Reality
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuTETe3CYAA0m-a.jpg
(this was the worst debate ever)
For example the NHS would love to block whistleblowers as they tell the truth about your beloved institution.
http://www.dorkingandleatherheadadvertiser.co.uk/Lib-Dems-select-Mole-Valley-candidate-2015/story-22040782-detail/story.html#ixzz39UvBkIGP
2) They only went to the spin room at the end - I thought the interruptions with the commentators made it a lot more watchable than a non-stop would have.
4) Agree
Darling is a decent man, who has consistently tried to do the best for out country, sometimes in opposition to his own party. It does not surprise me one iota that he can beat a chump like Salmond.
Guardian/ICM poll analysis
Alastair Darling emerged as a semi-clear winner of the Scottish Independence debate, according to ICM Director Martin Boon, who points to the polling showing that the former chancellor convinced 56% of the 512 survey participants that he was the better man on the night. 44% opted for Salmond.
Boon adds:
Darling performed more solidly among No supporters – securing 93% of them who told us their man won, compared to only 82% of Yes supporters who said Salmond won.
And Darling won on the arguments – a majority (51%) said so, with 40% saying Salmond had the better ideas.
On the other hand, Salmond’s undoubted personality helped win over viewers, with 47% saying the First Minister had the better personaility compared to only 39% who said so for Darling.
But the question is how does this impact on indy vote intentions? The answer is ‘not much’.
Of the sample who participated after the debate, views did not move – 53% said they intended to vote No beforehand, and the same figures emerged afterwards. So Darling won on the night, but voters remain steadfast in the way they plan to vote.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/6691246
As for Baroness Warsi, it's unfortunate that she has resigned but these things happen from time to time to ALL governments.
It annoys me how the media have to hype up every passing squall and storm that all governments go through as some end of the world type crisis.
Would it be better if Warsi hadn't resigned? Yes.
Will she be missed? Yes.
Is it the end of the world for the government? No.
Is it the end for Cameron? No.
Will this register at the election? LOL!
ICM have put up their data tables, so you can amuse yourselves for the rest of the evening
http://www.icmresearch.com/media-centre/polls/alex-salmond-vs-alastair-darling-independence-referendum-debate
PS - still a lot of uncertainty because of ex hurricane Bertha.
Remember when Brown tried to sack him and he just flat out refused to budge, LOL?
If Labour had had the courage to get rid of El Gord , Darling could have been a "safe pair of hands" leader and might quite possibly have pulled off a shock 1992 style comeback win I think.
He has that John Major type feel to him.
I would also still expect you and your nubile young lady friend to prefer a Cameron to a Miliband led government, particularly as a UK which has gone bust is hardly going to be great for your income and savings
Modi has blood on his hands - he plays the worst kind of politics...
My election predictor "The Lambert & Butler Election quantifier (Pony Juice derivitive) Southend on Sea schedule with 6,852 runs" now only shows the chance of a Tory Majority at 2,102%, Chance of Tory most seats 2,549%, Chance of Labour most seats 0.00000000000001%, chance of Labour majority 0%. Of course like any good election predictor, there will be one huge effing swing in it's results to whatever the polls say in the last few weeks and I will declare it as being very successful.
Ed is Crap!....Basil is knackered. Onward young squirrel, there is a long way to go.
But her very principled resignation has certainly made me reconsider my view of her in a positive way.