I always thought Salmond would struggle with this debate, because, even though it didn't go down well when Osborne and Carney first raised it, the currency issue is still THE killer point and however much Salmond and co wriggle about, there is ultimately no answer to it beyond Scot's taking one hell of a leap in the dark...
In other matters, I assume I wasn't alone in being surprised (well, not surprised, but amused) at how Bernie Ecclestone could end a trial on bribery charges by, effectively, paying a bribe?
Darling ahead on points,audience member called Salmond "snide"-ouch,and moderator facing allegations of bias.Darling especially good in correcting the Tory myth over the blame for the financial crisis needing to be placed at the feet of the bankers.
In other matters, I assume I wasn't alone in being surprised (well, not surprised, but amused) at how Bernie Ecclestone could end a trial on bribery charges by, effectively, paying a bribe?
It wasn't a bribe as it was a legitimate way (in their system) of ending the trial.
Sounds weird, and doesn't feel like justice, but allowed.
I'm glad you brought that up. Ignored just as the fact the country keeps borrowing £300m a day as a matter of course. Heck it doesn't really matter until confidence falls after September next year. And then it decidedly will matter!
I'm glad you brought that up. Ignored just as the fact the country keeps borrowing £300m a day as a matter of course. Heck it doesn't really matter until confidence falls after September next year. And then it decidedly will matter!
How much of that £300m a day do we give to the EU?
In other matters, I assume I wasn't alone in being surprised (well, not surprised, but amused) at how Bernie Ecclestone could end a trial on bribery charges by, effectively, paying a bribe?
It wasn't a bribe as it was a legitimate way (in their system) of ending the trial.
Sounds weird, and doesn't feel like justice, but allowed.
I know it is a legitimate way of ending the trial and so not technically bribery, but in common parlance it sure looks like one. Not unusual really, large companies pay massive fines in exchange for not being charged of things while notadmitting actual liability, but in practice that's, if not a bribe, then having much of the appearance of bribery.
I'm glad you brought that up. Ignored just as the fact the country keeps borrowing £300m a day as a matter of course. Heck it doesn't really matter until confidence falls after September next year. And then it decidedly will matter!
How much of that £300m a day do we give to the EU?
Well that was underwhelming but then Bernard Ponsonby is a very poor political editor. In 2009 he told me in the pub one night that Gordon Brown would win the GE whenever he called it!!
I'm glad you brought that up. Ignored just as the fact the country keeps borrowing £300m a day as a matter of course. Heck it doesn't really matter until confidence falls after September next year. And then it decidedly will matter!
How much of that £300m a day do we give to the EU?
Salmond is going to need more debates now. He did OK, but Darling matched him. The currency issue is horrible for Yes.
*ahem*
I said about three years ago, after eurogeddon, here on PB (go check!) that the currency issue would kill the independence campaign. It's insuperable.
It's the one circle they cannot square, and it will lead to a No vote, despite my various bipolar collywobbles.
The currency itself is a red herring. An independent Scotland would use the pound and no-one will care whether it is in a formal currency union or not. The pound in your pocket, and so on.
Where the currency "question* matters is it shows Salmond/Yes to be evasive. He cannot admit Scotland would be less important than rUK, so he cannot state the bleeding obvious which is that Scotland will continue to use sterling whatever happens.
Salmond is going to need more debates now. He did OK, but Darling matched him. The currency issue is horrible for Yes.
*ahem*
I said about three years ago, after eurogeddon, here on PB (go check!) that the currency issue would kill the independence campaign. It's insuperable.
It's the one circle they cannot square, and it will lead to a No vote, despite my various bipolar collywobbles.
The currency itself is a red herring. An independent Scotland would use the pound and no-one will care whether it is in a formal currency union or not. The pound in your pocket, and so on.
Where the currency "question* matters is it shows Salmond/Yes to be evasive. He cannot admit Scotland would be less important than rUK, so he cannot state the bleeding obvious which is that Scotland will continue to use sterling whatever happens.
How will they get their hands on english pounds when they need them?
Salmond's failure to beat Darling shows that the No's are in the driving seat. Scotland will reject Independence for the foreseeable future; perhaps forever, though one can never say never.
Salmond's failure to beat Darling shows that the No's are in the driving seat. Scotland will reject Independence for the foreseeable future; perhaps forever, though one can never say never.
Hm, I wouldn't say forever.. thousand year reich anyone?
Salmond is going to need more debates now. He did OK, but Darling matched him. The currency issue is horrible for Yes.
*ahem*
I said about three years ago, after eurogeddon, here on PB (go check!) that the currency issue would kill the independence campaign. It's insuperable.
It's the one circle they cannot square, and it will lead to a No vote, despite my various bipolar collywobbles.
The currency itself is a red herring. An independent Scotland would use the pound and no-one will care whether it is in a formal currency union or not. The pound in your pocket, and so on.
Where the currency "question* matters is it shows Salmond/Yes to be evasive. He cannot admit Scotland would be less important than rUK, so he cannot state the bleeding obvious which is that Scotland will continue to use sterling whatever happens.
I agree Salmond is evasive on this. He just has no real answer other than claiming "bluff bluster and bullying". I disagree that no one would care if it's a formal currency union or not. I'd be shipping assets over the border with both hands were Wales ever to be landed in an informal currency union with England as Scotland could be. Just way too unstable a situation.
Salmond is going to need more debates now. He did OK, but Darling matched him. The currency issue is horrible for Yes.
*ahem*
I said about three years ago, after eurogeddon, here on PB (go check!) that the currency issue would kill the independence campaign. It's insuperable.
It's the one circle they cannot square, and it will lead to a No vote, despite my various bipolar collywobbles.
The currency itself is a red herring. An independent Scotland would use the pound and no-one will care whether it is in a formal currency union or not. The pound in your pocket, and so on.
Where the currency "question* matters is it shows Salmond/Yes to be evasive. He cannot admit Scotland would be less important than rUK, so he cannot state the bleeding obvious which is that Scotland will continue to use sterling whatever happens.
Utterly ridiculous answer. Scotland's future ENTIRELY depends on what currency it uses. And Salmond had no obvious answer. Sterlingisation *a la Panama* is wholly different to a formal currency union.
It would be like Ireland using sterling until it joined the Euro.
The point is that Salmond can't bring himself to say that Scotland would not be running the show.
STV audiences post mortem interviews more revealing than the actual debate. – according to some, Salmond’s general shiftiness regarding the £ and pensions were the biggest issue.
Personal observation, - I don’t think the audience make-up remotely reflected the polls .
'The currency itself is a red herring. An independent Scotland would use the pound and no-one will care whether it is in a formal currency union or not.'
No-one will care that their government has zero control over interest rates or the financial markets that Scotland has no lender of last resort?
Salmond is going to need more debates now. He did OK, but Darling matched him. The currency issue is horrible for Yes.
*ahem*
I said about three years ago, after eurogeddon, here on PB (go check!) that the currency issue would kill the independence campaign. It's insuperable.
It's the one circle they cannot square, and it will lead to a No vote, despite my various bipolar collywobbles.
The currency itself is a red herring. An independent Scotland would use the pound and no-one will care whether it is in a formal currency union or not. The pound in your pocket, and so on.
Where the currency "question* matters is it shows Salmond/Yes to be evasive. He cannot admit Scotland would be less important than rUK, so he cannot state the bleeding obvious which is that Scotland will continue to use sterling whatever happens.
Utterly ridiculous answer. Scotland's future ENTIRELY depends on what currency it uses. And Salmond had no obvious answer. Sterlingisation *a la Panama* is wholly different to a formal currency union.
It would be like Ireland using sterling until it joined the Euro.
The point is that Salmond can't bring himself to say that Scotland would not be running the show.
I'd just like it noted that my instincts EXACTLY match the Sun Worm - I thought Salmond edged the first round, lost the second round badly, and then scraped back to a draw in the third.
Given the expectations, that's a sobering defeat for YES.
Tom Knox, *Still Channeling Britain*
Surely that should be Tom Knox *Still Channelling Britain, and Scotland especially*
I'd just like it noted that my instincts EXACTLY match the Sun Worm - I thought Salmond edged the first round, lost the second round badly, and then scraped back to a draw in the third.
Given the expectations, that's a sobering defeat for YES.
Tom Knox, *Still Channeling Britain*
Sean T exactly like a Sun reader and proud of it!!
As a denizen of PB - I am doing my duty, as a PB Scot, to comment.
Presumably the website was crashing for most of you or you weren't watching.
I could have got my notebook out and scribbled some thoughts during the debate - y'know like a pseado journo. But - nah, I was just drinking beer.
However, I do have something to report back-
And it was from the after debate - Scary Talisker drinking Yes Scotland man (who I saw on This Week) - said something along the lines of "we're all Social Democrats here". and I know it's nowhere close to a tautology - but I just thought that it was close enough to my Need Moar Bunkers (coming from a big scary yes man) - for me to put it on record.
I'd just like it noted that my instincts EXACTLY match the Sun Worm - I thought Salmond edged the first round, lost the second round badly, and then scraped back to a draw in the third.
Given the expectations, that's a sobering defeat for YES.
Tom Knox, *Still Channeling Britain*
It answers the question rumbling around on PB for the last 4 years, is Salmond good or is it just that he never meets decent opposition NOTB ?
He's like the Old Firm trying to compete in Europe.
AndyJS It was ITV who covered it, but BBC basically had it as 'their other top story' despite the fact even 5 Live could not be bothered to cover it. Darling did a Romney, hit home hard on the facts and won a shock victory against the odds. Game, set and Match 'Better Together!'
Undecideds on ITV news disappointed with Salmond after a good start, a disastrous night for Yes!! All said Darling won and more likely Scotland would stay in the Union
I'd just like it noted that my instincts EXACTLY match the Sun Worm - I thought Salmond edged the first round, lost the second round badly, and then scraped back to a draw in the third.
Given the expectations, that's a sobering defeat for YES.
Tom Knox, *Still Channeling Britain*
It answers the question rumbling around on PB for the last 4 years, is Salmond good or is it just that he never meets decent opposition NOTB ?
He's like the Old Firm trying to compete in Europe.
As John McEnroe said shortly before his retirement " You can't lose to the Brad Gilberts of this world".
Comments
Sounds weird, and doesn't feel like justice, but allowed.
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB
Salmond doing better. Comments on pensions well thought out
https://fullfact.org/economy/cost_eu_membership_gross_net_contribution-30887
On the dubious logic of looking at EU spending as a fraction of the over-spend, not total spending.
Not sure what the Qs will be.
Where the currency "question* matters is it shows Salmond/Yes to be evasive. He cannot admit Scotland would be less important than rUK, so he cannot state the bleeding obvious which is that Scotland will continue to use sterling whatever happens.
Betfair punters, voting with their money, gave the debate to Darling. YES started at just under a 20% shot - ended at 16.6%
Ladbrokes #indyref debate reaction: Odds of YES pushed out from 7/2 to 4/1. NO becomes a stronger favourite at 1/6.
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by five points: CON 33%, LAB 38%, LD 8%, UKIP 12%
The point is that Salmond can't bring himself to say that Scotland would not be running the show.
Ed is crap is PM 9 months and 2 days to go
After average leads of 3.0 and 3.2 for the last 2 weeks, this week kicks off with leads of 4 and 5.
Also only the 2nd time in the last two and a half weeks that Con has been below 34.
Personal observation, - I don’t think the audience make-up remotely reflected the polls .
'The currency itself is a red herring. An independent Scotland would use the pound and no-one will care whether it is in a formal currency union or not.'
No-one will care that their government has zero control over interest rates or the financial markets that Scotland has no lender of last resort?
Darling = Monty
Like Rommel, Salmond was hamstrung by one major disadvantage, The currency problem is his Italian troops.
A real hindrance
Guardian/ICM calling it for Darling
Darling won.
Salmond lost.
No is increasing its betting lead.
Everyone hates STV.
Victory for Darling
A Guardian/ICM poll of viewers has concluded that Darling won the debate by 56pc to 44pc.
You should do a blog on it
Indeed last week they were 6, 1, 2, 4, 3.
As a denizen of PB - I am doing my duty, as a PB Scot, to comment.
Presumably the website was crashing for most of you or you weren't watching.
I could have got my notebook out and scribbled some thoughts during the debate - y'know like a pseado journo. But - nah, I was just drinking beer.
However, I do have something to report back-
And it was from the after debate - Scary Talisker drinking Yes Scotland man (who I saw on This Week) - said something along the lines of "we're all Social Democrats here". and I know it's nowhere close to a tautology - but I just thought that it was close enough to my Need Moar Bunkers (coming from a big scary yes man) - for me to put it on record.
He's like the Old Firm trying to compete in Europe.
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
Now @nick_clegg tweets that arms export licenses to Israel shd be suspended>#Warsi
This could be the next big story.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44484000/jpg/_44484920_darling_profile203x152.jpg
Alistair Darling 47% Alex Salmond 37%
Don’t Know 15%
America is hunting for another leaker after this is published:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/08/05/watch-commander/
680 thousand suspected terrorists in the USA.
Night all.
Yes, he and Darling go level sometimes, but he never really get's back in to the lead.
Salmond Killed By Great British Pound?