I love some of the comments on the BBC about this:
Jan Falconer: Wish Darling would stop referencing UK!!!! The kingdom is no longer United and Britain is no longer Great!!!!!
Even if 100% true, I'm not really certain what else he could refer to it as. It's like in Northern Ireland where people try to avoid loaded terminology and end up referring to things like 'these islands' and so on.
Darling The EU "does not do things at speed" according to BBC.
Ain't that the truth. I do wonder how long it will take Scotland to get back in, which I resume is what will happen as it surely meets the criteria even if politically there is some pushback.
geoffw Of course Darling would refuse to answer he does not want to have any TV clips of him saying he agreed with Cameron. His answer was actually far deeper than Salmond's rehash question
Salmond not storming this at all. Perhaps there is something coming up that justifies what looks to be a very peculiar approach. The committed Yes folk will love it, but not sure how others will take it.
So far it has not been a positive stance by Salmond for Scottish independence, it's a whinge blaming everything & everyone else for Scotland's problems. - he gets applause from the audience but I don't know how successful this will be for DNKs.
Salmond not storming this at all. Perhaps there is something coming up that justifies what looks to be a very peculiar approach. The committed Yes folk will love it, but not sure how others will take it.
I'm assuming the lines he and Darling use tonight were message tested with polls and focus group, so they must have met with approval somewhere
The real question from this debate will be which side's spinners will sound the most plausible afterwards. I always felt Gordon Brown was let down by his spinners in 2010. Instead of recognising that he had exceeded the (very low) expectations in the first debate (in my opinion at any rate), they went overboard in trying to say that Gordon had substance whereas the others had style, trying to indicate you cannot have both (something Ed M has, unsurprisingly but regrettably, started trying to imply as well, or his spinners at any rate), making it seem like he did worse than he did.
So far it has not been a positive stance by Salmond for Scottish independence, it's a whinge blaming everything & everyone else for Scotland's problems. - he gets applause from the audience but I don't know how successful this will be for DNKs.
Yeah, while the debate about EU membership may be interesting, it is definitely a short-term issue given that the argument is how long it will take to get membership, not IF Scotland will get membership.
Salmond not storming this at all. Perhaps there is something coming up that justifies what looks to be a very peculiar approach. The committed Yes folk will love it, but not sure how others will take it.
I'm assuming the lines he and Darling use tonight were message tested with polls and focus group, so they must have met with approval somewhere
Salmond not storming this at all. Perhaps there is something coming up that justifies what looks to be a very peculiar approach. The committed Yes folk will love it, but not sure how others will take it.
I'm assuming the lines he and Darling use tonight were message tested with polls and focus group, so they must have met with approval somewhere
One between Salmond/Darling; then a rehash in the "spin" room.
Hmmm.
Honestly, there's enough spin during and after such events - does it really have to be done during it as well? It's not as though the two people debating will not be rehashing their standard talking points anyway, so it's not as though we're missing out on the spin.
According to BBC comments on the article on their homepage (comment 224) the debate isn't being shown in the Border region, in Scotland. If so, that's just indefensible.
According to BBC comments on the article on their homepage (comment 224) the debate isn't being shown in the Border region, in Scotland. If so, that's just indefensible.
I'm mostly loving the fact that southern English Tories who can't even bloody vote in the referendum have been moaning that they can't watch the debate.
Darling will win this if he asks the £85000 question. Protection of bank deposits. Will deposits in an indy Scotland be protected at current level? Yes or no? It's necessary for EU membership that they be so protected. And how much will it cost, given that the Scottish banking system is dominated by two huge players - Lloyds and RBS. Just for goodness sake, Alistair, keep going on about bank accounts and you can't lose.
Can't believe a weak joke I once made about Scotland driving on right has actually been quoted by Salmond. He's lost the plot. #ScotDecides @andyburnham
I'm mostly loving the fact that southern English Tories who can't even bloody vote in the referendum have been moaning that they can't watch the debate.
Erm, not all of the people complaining they couldn't access STVPlayer are Tories.
I'm mostly loving the fact that southern English Tories who can't even bloody vote in the referendum have been moaning that they can't watch the debate.
And southern English non-Tories! It's as involved as I can get, given I cannot have the pleasures of the rest of the campaigning, so I'd have taken it.
Mr. Hugh, the site was also very interested in the US presidential debates. Nothing wrong with an interest in politics.
Hell, it's often more interesting when you do not have a vote as you can have more fun with it knowing you have no impact on it and it has no impact on you. In this instance it will have an impact, so it's not as fun as the american elections, but still interesting of course.
Darling will win this if he asks the £85000 question. Protection of bank deposits. Will deposits in an indy Scotland be protected at current level? Yes or no? It's necessary for EU membership that they be so protected. And how much will it cost, given that the Scottish banking system is dominated by two huge players - Lloyds and RBS. Just for goodness sake, Alistair, keep going on about bank accounts and you can't lose.
I'm waiting for that question too. Lets make no bones about it, Salmond has been poor tonight. He must have anticipated the plan B question on the currency. Its detracting from everything else he's saying unfortunately.
Salmond murdered darling over the Question if Scotland could be a successful country.
I'd agree with this. Darling should have had a better answer prepared. Not sure what it would be though...
Yes, but even stronger in the UK. Although perhaps it was just being framed as 'Do you agree with David Cameron...' that killed it for Darling, deciding indecisive waffle was better than yes to anything Cameron said in these circumstances .(I think that's how it was phrased - still not got video)
Would an indy Scotland keep the GBP if the rUK says no to a currency union? Salmond couldn't answer. Unless you count wanting what's best for Scotland and better for rUK as an answer.
The moderators question about currency union was weird. Just because the people of a foreign nation say they want a currency union, doesn't mean they will get one.
Would an indy Scotland keep the GBP if the rUK says no to a currency union? Salmond couldn't answer. Unless you count wanting what's best for Scotland and better for rUK as an answer.
It's an interesting question that. Salmond's only recourse seems to be that the other side is bluffing when they say they would not accept a currency union, but that can just make people think that Salmond is bluffing when he says the other side definitely would in the end.
I think he's probably right rUK would do it, in the end, but that's a hell of a gamble to ask people to take, given there is at least a chance plenty in rUK may demand the government negotiators not give an inch, even at a price to themselves. After all, if someone is willing to be a little poorer for the sake of being independent (and many would be, even if others might not), then the one's in the rump may be willing to be a little poorer to not assist those who just left.
According to BBC comments on the article on their homepage (comment 224) the debate isn't being shown in the Border region, in Scotland. If so, that's just indefensible.
Would an indy Scotland keep the GBP if the rUK says no to a currency union? Salmond couldn't answer. Unless you count wanting what's best for Scotland and better for rUK as an answer.
It's an interesting question that. Salmond's only recourse seems to be that the other side is bluffing when they say they would not accept a currency union, but that can just make people think that Salmond is bluffing when he says the other side definitely would in the end.
I think he's probably right rUK would do it, in the end, but that's a hell of a gamble to ask people to take, given there is at least a chance plenty in rUK may demand the government negotiators not give an inch, even at a price to themselves. After all, if someone is willing to be a little poorer for the sake of being independent (and many would be, even if others might not), then the one's in the rump may be willing to be a little poorer to not assist those who just left.
Spot on - but a currency union means no independent Scotland because no financial independence.
The clamour for Darling to return to the Labour front bench is going to be pretty compelling after this… #Indyref
Never mind the front bench,the labour leadership ?
Might be difficult if he does manage to pull this off (I am more optimistic than I was 3 months ago, but never rule Yes out), what with all the honours that will be showered on him to be kicked upstairs. They don't make double Peerages do they?
Still, what a label to have round your neck if he did return to the front bench. Whenever criticized he could just go 'Yeah, but I saved the Union'. Not alone, but I'd certainly find it hard to work up much vitriol against him in those circumstances.
Salmond could show leadership by saying "we will seek a currency union with rUK, but if we don't get it we will (print our own currency | use the GBP the way Ecuador uses the USD) (delete as applicable)". And probably only the first of these options would stand any chance of cutting the mustard. But then tomorrow's newspapers would be full of swiping criticisms by leading bankers. He just doesn't want to say to people that the government of a sovereign Scotland would negotiate with governments of other countries. The line that "it's Scotland's pound too" is very weak.
Any more of these debates scheduled? I recall reading something about difficulty finding dates, because I'm sure neither of these two could rearrange something to find another evening free between now and September 18th.
Salmond is doing particularly badly so somewhat ironically will probably see a boost for the YES campaign. Alasdair Darling has been quite animated, far more than I have ever seen him before.
If there's a round 2, it'll be easier for Darling to come up with an answer to 'Could Scotland be a successful independent country?' even with a Cameron reference crowbarred in than for Salmond to answer on currency.
Any more of these debates scheduled? I recall reading something about difficulty finding dates, because I'm sure neither of these two could rearrange something to find another evening free between now and September 18th.
Comments
Salmond might have played to much atari when he was a kid.
When is it going to be reliable for everybody, every time, no ifs, no buts - like other basic consumer products?
Darling: "Never mind about pandas, outer space and websites." #SalmondVsDarling
Jan Falconer: Wish Darling would stop referencing UK!!!! The kingdom is no longer United and Britain is no longer Great!!!!!
Even if 100% true, I'm not really certain what else he could refer to it as. It's like in Northern Ireland where people try to avoid loaded terminology and end up referring to things like 'these islands' and so on.
Probably twice the population of Scotland are attempting to watch on their website.
Has Salmond just done a Lembik?
Ain't that the truth. I do wonder how long it will take Scotland to get back in, which I resume is what will happen as it surely meets the criteria even if politically there is some pushback.
When is it going to be reliable for everybody, every time, no ifs, no buts - like other basic consumer products?
For the moment, however, this 12 yr old pc is rollicking.
As Harold Wilson didn't try to say "this, er, may affect the pound in your pocket..."
One between Salmond/Darling; then a rehash in the "spin" room.
Hmmm.
Also Salmond doing much worse than I expected and Darling much better. Though not at Clegg, Farage levels.
When is it going to be reliable for everybody, every time, no ifs, no buts - like other basic consumer products?
Salmond's head?
I'll get me coat. :')
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28649354
"Alec, what have you been smoking ?"
And we've lost the link again. I hate you STV.
Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk
The clamour for Darling to return to the Labour front bench is going to be pretty compelling after this… #Indyref
Never mind the front bench,the labour leadership ?
I think he's probably right rUK would do it, in the end, but that's a hell of a gamble to ask people to take, given there is at least a chance plenty in rUK may demand the government negotiators not give an inch, even at a price to themselves. After all, if someone is willing to be a little poorer for the sake of being independent (and many would be, even if others might not), then the one's in the rump may be willing to be a little poorer to not assist those who just left.
Dog fight on who is worse on bank bailouts.
Still, what a label to have round your neck if he did return to the front bench. Whenever criticized he could just go 'Yeah, but I saved the Union'. Not alone, but I'd certainly find it hard to work up much vitriol against him in those circumstances.
Now that is something that will (continue) to please a lot of people.
(albeit briefly!)
And, now for some other news.