Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Extraordinary. Gove was killed by Lynton Crosby’s private p

13

Comments

  • Options
    HughHugh Posts: 955

    Supposedly (source: Twitter): Nicky Morgan sees her job as not only to serve her constituents but "to remember the Word of God and serve The Lord". Hmm.

    Send 'em more Bibles!
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited July 2014

    Supposedly (source: Twitter): Nicky Morgan sees her job as not only to serve her constituents but "to remember the Word of God and serve The Lord". Hmm.

    So what? Did you mention anything on PB when your female colleague Ruth Kelly was outed as a possible member of Opus Dei.

    Pretty nasty smear you are trying on.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,339
    DavidL Indeed, it is one of the most fascinating experiments that has ever been on TV
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,249
    jayfdee said:

    HYUFD said:

    jayfdee It has not aged, core power play never does, and Kevin Spacey's US version also very watchable

    Also re watching " Edge of darkness" it still disturbs me,and the music courtesy of Clapo really adds to the sinister effect.
    If you two are stripmining past political dramas, you may want to compare "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" (the 1979 BBC version) and "Washington: Behind Closed Doors". Both are on YouTube.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,339
    SquareRoot But to be a good teacher is not easy by any means, and requires a great deal of patience and preparation
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,707

    Supposedly (source: Twitter): Nicky Morgan sees her job as not only to serve her constituents but "to remember the Word of God and serve The Lord". Hmm.

    Do you deem those things incompatible? Hmm.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    HYUFD said:

    SquareRoot But to be a good teacher is not easy by any means, and requires a great deal of patience and preparation

    Indeed so, I just know that there were teachers I paid a lot of attention to and others not. Some were good at classroom discipline and some not, some were hopeless and therefore found it hard to teach as pupils did not pay enough attention..
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Supposedly (source: Twitter): Nicky Morgan sees her job as not only to serve her constituents but "to remember the Word of God and serve The Lord". Hmm.

    I notice you are doing this kind of thing more and more recently - why not leave it to others as I don't think it reflects well on a potential MP.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,959
    edited July 2014

    YouGov: CON 34 LAB 38 LD 6 Ukip 13. LibDems at equal historic low - but could be MOE.

    Looks like a thumbs down to the reshuffle then?

    #YouGov
  • Options
    valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 605
    Loads of pathetic comments here about teachers. Most of you wouldn't last a day in a classroom.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    YouGov: CON 34 LAB 38 LD 6 Ukip 13. LibDems at equal historic low - but could be MOE.

    LDs down from 10% five days ago - so they've lost 40% of their entire support since end of last week.

  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    GIN1138 said:

    Looks like a thumbs down to the reshuffle then?

    #YouGov

    You cannot reasonably say that. It needs a while for the reshuffle to bed down, look again in a month or so IMHO.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,591
    viewcode said:

    jayfdee said:

    HYUFD said:

    jayfdee It has not aged, core power play never does, and Kevin Spacey's US version also very watchable

    Also re watching " Edge of darkness" it still disturbs me,and the music courtesy of Clapo really adds to the sinister effect.
    If you two are stripmining past political dramas, you may want to compare "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" (the 1979 BBC version) and "Washington: Behind Closed Doors". Both are on YouTube.

    The Alec Guinness version on TV was absolutely brilliant. The film a couple of years ago was seriously disappointing.

  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    valleyboy said:

    Supposedly (source: Twitter): Nicky Morgan sees her job as not only to serve her constituents but "to remember the Word of God and serve The Lord". Hmm.

    What do you make of the reshuffle, Nick?
    Not sure Cameron will have wanted it to be dominated by Gove's departure - the promised new dawn for women isn't very striking. But I expect the electorate will shrug as usual.

    In reply to Squareroot, I don't mind what religion people follow, but I'm wary of it being brought into a Ministerial or constituency mission statement. I knew Ruth Kelly quite well - never heard her mention religion as something that needed to be considered in policy-making.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,959

    GIN1138 said:

    Looks like a thumbs down to the reshuffle then?

    #YouGov

    You cannot reasonably say that. It needs a while for the reshuffle to bed down, look again in a month or so IMHO.
    I know, I know, LOL!

  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Supposedly (source: Twitter): Nicky Morgan sees her job as not only to serve her constituents but "to remember the Word of God and serve The Lord". Hmm.

    Do you deem those things incompatible? Hmm.
    "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord" is the end of service response for the Book of Common Prayer, if I have that right.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: LibDems now at 6% says YouGov poll. At what point do they panic? 5%? 3%? Remarkable discipline in face of possible annihilation.

    So long as they're annihilated in East Dunbartonshire...
    East Dunbartsonshire could be just the beginning. The LD's are mystifying favourites in loads of Scottish seats...
    I'm backing against the Scottish Yellow Peril - balls deep
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    GIN1138 said:

    YouGov: CON 34 LAB 38 LD 6 Ukip 13. LibDems at equal historic low - but could be MOE.

    Looks like a thumbs down to the reshuffle then?

    #YouGov
    Far too early to see any reshuffle effects.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited July 2014

    valleyboy said:

    Supposedly (source: Twitter): Nicky Morgan sees her job as not only to serve her constituents but "to remember the Word of God and serve The Lord". Hmm.

    What do you make of the reshuffle, Nick?
    Not sure Cameron will have wanted it to be dominated by Gove's departure - the promised new dawn for women isn't very striking. But I expect the electorate will shrug as usual.

    In reply to Squareroot, I don't mind what religion people follow, but I'm wary of it being brought into a Ministerial or constituency mission statement. I knew Ruth Kelly quite well - never heard her mention religion as something that needed to be considered in policy-making.
    Neither did Nicky Morgan with your unverified tweet. A Christian life is not incompatible with doing a good job. You wouldn't have mentioned it had it been a Muslim MP praising ALLAH in his or her daily work.. You are very obviously trying to smear.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,339
    SeanT After the bankers virtually bankrupt the world economy, maybe hiring some monkeys in the City and Wall Street would not be bad idea either
  • Options
    valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 605
    SeanT said:

    valleyboy said:

    Loads of pathetic comments here about teachers. Most of you wouldn't last a day in a classroom.

    What a lot of nonsense. It's this self-pitying narcissism which blights the public sector: Oooh, just you try being a teacher/nurse/policeman/fireman they should earn more than bankers!!!

    Er, no they shouldn't. These jobs could be easily done by robots, or by immigrants. They demand limited skill. A well trained chimpanzee with a cerebral implant could do most of them. in return for cashew nuts. Yet they get big salaries, fat pensions, and they retire at 36.

    Sack them all and replace them with rightwing algorithms.
    You are a very sad man.

  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    valleyboy said:

    Loads of pathetic comments here about teachers. Most of you wouldn't last a day in a classroom.

    What specifically would cause our day to be curtailed?
  • Options
    HughHugh Posts: 955
    SeanT said:

    valleyboy said:

    Loads of pathetic comments here about teachers. Most of you wouldn't last a day in a classroom.

    What a lot of nonsense. It's this self-pitying narcissism which blights the public sector: Oooh, just you try being a teacher/nurse/policeman/fireman they should earn more than bankers!!!

    Er, no they shouldn't. These jobs could be easily done by robots, or by immigrants. They demand limited skill. A well trained chimpanzee with a cerebral implant could do most of them. in return for cashew nuts. Yet they get big salaries, fat pensions, and they retire at 36.

    Sack them all and replace them with rightwing algorithms.
    And you meekly pay their bloated salaries with your excessive taxes,thanks to years - decades - of lefty influence, unions, BBC, the EU.

    Haha suck it up posh boy
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,249
    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    jayfdee said:

    HYUFD said:

    jayfdee It has not aged, core power play never does, and Kevin Spacey's US version also very watchable

    Also re watching " Edge of darkness" it still disturbs me,and the music courtesy of Clapo really adds to the sinister effect.
    If you two are stripmining past political dramas, you may want to compare "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" (the 1979 BBC version) and "Washington: Behind Closed Doors". Both are on YouTube.

    The Alec Guinness version on TV was absolutely brilliant. The film a couple of years ago was seriously disappointing.

    I *really* like the Guinness version, and was pleasantly surprised by how well it'd aged. The recent film version: well, it had sparks, and Gary Oldman was wonderful, but I thought it was overdesigned (the Circus interiors were rubbish), they muffed the Heydon reveal ,and finally squeezed too much plot into not enough time. Still like it, tho...

  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Hugh said:
    Already linked to. It says the worst thing about the reshuffle was that it sacked the only two ministers who voted against gay marriage. I assume you agree.
  • Options
    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    Retweeted by Nick Palmer
    Kevin Brennan ‏@KevinBrennanMP 7h
    Following Cameron's reshuffle every one of the Ministers at the Department for Education in Lords and Commons attended a private school

    Or put another way, they all know what a good education looks like and have made good use of theirs.
  • Options
    HughHugh Posts: 955
    Ishmael_X said:

    Hugh said:
    Already linked to. It says the worst thing about the reshuffle was that it sacked the only two ministers who voted against gay marriage. I assume you agree.
    Didn't see an earlier link.

    Clearly, Charles Moore is stark raving mad, but for some reason I thought some here might appreciate his, ahem, analysis.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,339
    There are good and bad employees in every area, and I do have some sympathy with more performance related pay in the public sector as there is in the private sector, but bankers are not gods as the likes of Fred Goodwin and Dick Fuld have proved, had there been no bailouts, with the odd exception such as HSBC, once Lehmans went down the banks would have toppled like Dominoes
  • Options
    HughHugh Posts: 955
    SeanT said:

    valleyboy said:

    SeanT said:

    valleyboy said:

    Loads of pathetic comments here about teachers. Most of you wouldn't last a day in a classroom.

    What a lot of nonsense. It's this self-pitying narcissism which blights the public sector: Oooh, just you try being a teacher/nurse/policeman/fireman they should earn more than bankers!!!

    Er, no they shouldn't. These jobs could be easily done by robots, or by immigrants. They demand limited skill. A well trained chimpanzee with a cerebral implant could do most of them. in return for cashew nuts. Yet they get big salaries, fat pensions, and they retire at 36.

    Sack them all and replace them with rightwing algorithms.
    You are a very sad man.

    Why's that then? Why am I sad?

    Because

    1. I earn too much money

    or

    2. I f*ck too many women age 18-35?

    I thought I'd reduce it to a multiple choice question so you'd understand
    Aww bless
  • Options
    valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 605
    Hugh said:

    SeanT said:

    valleyboy said:

    SeanT said:

    valleyboy said:

    Loads of pathetic comments here about teachers. Most of you wouldn't last a day in a classroom.

    What a lot of nonsense. It's this self-pitying narcissism which blights the public sector: Oooh, just you try being a teacher/nurse/policeman/fireman they should earn more than bankers!!!

    Er, no they shouldn't. These jobs could be easily done by robots, or by immigrants. They demand limited skill. A well trained chimpanzee with a cerebral implant could do most of them. in return for cashew nuts. Yet they get big salaries, fat pensions, and they retire at 36.

    Sack them all and replace them with rightwing algorithms.
    You are a very sad man.

    Why's that then? Why am I sad?

    Because

    1. I earn too much money

    or

    2. I f*ck too many women age 18-35?

    I thought I'd reduce it to a multiple choice question so you'd understand
    LOL

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    YouGov: CON 34 LAB 38 LD 6 Ukip 13. LibDems at equal historic low - but could be MOE.

    LDs down from 10% five days ago - so they've lost 40% of their entire support since end of last week.

    In a shock development, 12 people change their minds in a week...

    ;-)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,339
    SeanT Don't disagree, but the raising of millions of Chinese and others out of poverty has far more to do with abandoning the ideas of Marx than the recent decisions of bankers which caused the worst recession since the Depression of the thirties
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    SeanT said:



    Why's that then? Why am I sad?

    Because

    1. I earn too much money

    or

    2. I f*ck too many women age 18-35?

    I thought I'd reduce it to a multiple choice question so you'd understand

    To be fair, showing off to political nerds does border on sad-ish. Glad to see you back though. Lets hope things start livening up between now and May. It has been quite a boring period.

  • Options
    valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 605
    Ishmael_X said:

    valleyboy said:

    Loads of pathetic comments here about teachers. Most of you wouldn't last a day in a classroom.

    What specifically would cause our day to be curtailed?
    If you have any teacher acquaintances just ask them of they have a cushy job.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Ishmael_X

    "What specifically would cause our day to be curtailed?"

    A thirteen year old saying you had tried to grope her?
    (other ages are available)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    Charles said:

    YouGov: CON 34 LAB 38 LD 6 Ukip 13. LibDems at equal historic low - but could be MOE.

    LDs down from 10% five days ago - so they've lost 40% of their entire support since end of last week.

    In a shock development, 12 people change their minds in a week...

    ;-)
    ICM tables still not up - I want to see if more people told ICM they would vote Lib Dem or UKIP.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,591
    There is nothing wrong with our banking system that 1,000 bankers serving time would not fix. Unfortunately that is never going to happen so next time will be even worse.

    I am reading Matt Taibbi's book at the moment called "The Divide". It compares and contrasts the situation where those laundering hundreds of millions of drug proceeds are not prosecuted or found guilty of anything and those with small quantities of drugs for their own use do lengthy sentences. It is about America but much of it rings very true here too.

    Those who think simplistic capitalism is the answer really need to read it and think how far off track we have gone.
  • Options
    valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 605
    Smarmeron said:

    @Ishmael_X

    "What specifically would cause our day to be curtailed?"

    A thirteen year old saying you had tried to grope her?
    (other ages are available)

    Ha ha. Definitely.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @DavidL
    Yes, communism fails because of a flaw in human nature, the same flaw does the same for capitalism.

    Vote pragmatic communist! or come the revolution we will not send you a Christmas card.
  • Options
    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Basil is on the floor.......Labour lead is four!

    Show me the crossover.........Show me the crossover!!!!!
  • Options
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    valleyboy said:

    Loads of pathetic comments here about teachers. Most of you wouldn't last a day in a classroom.

    When the teachers gave up discipline it probably made no difference in the leafiest areas but in the roughest it meant the little or timid kids got battered.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Ishmael_X said:

    Hugh said:
    Already linked to. It says the worst thing about the reshuffle was that it sacked the only two ministers who voted against gay marriage. I assume you agree.
    It also promoted Nicky Morgan who voted against gay marriage. So what?

    A good choice for promotion despite that. She has been an excellent MP for Loughborough.
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Have there been any polls on same-sex marriage since the act came into force?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,267
    valleyboy said:

    Loads of pathetic comments here about teachers. Most of you wouldn't last a day in a classroom.

    How do you know? I have taught. So has my husband. My daughter has been working as a classroom assistant this year. My sister in law and two brothers in law are teachers, one retiring this year as the longest serving teacher in Cumbria, and we are parents.

    So I reckon I have good idea about what good teachers can do , how hard it can be etc. And this is one reason why I am so intolerant of those who expect us to genuflect in front of them and never ever criticise bad teaching and the poverty of low expectations. The bad teachers, those who resist all criticism, all change let the side down for the many good ones.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    SeanT said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:



    Why's that then? Why am I sad?

    Because

    1. I earn too much money

    or

    2. I f*ck too many women age 18-35?

    I thought I'd reduce it to a multiple choice question so you'd understand

    To be fair, showing off to political nerds does border on sad-ish. Glad to see you back though. Lets hope things start livening up between now and May. It has been quite a boring period.

    To be fair, I haven't posted on pb, regularly, for a couple of months. I expect I will disappear again, soon. Diversions, diversions... oh.....

    But here's a thing, I was in Sichuan, China two weeks ago, doing a travel piece. It was utterly astonishing: the horrible pollution and examples of poverty (smoggy countryside??), yet also the dynamism and sense of momentum.

    It made me realise how far China has come, and yet, how far it has to go. Its economy will dwarf anything in the West when they are finished (unless they all die of arsenic poisoning in the meantime). Much of China is northern England circa 1830, times a zillion.

    This is THE great geopolitical fact of most of our lifetimes: the rising force of China, and the relative diminishment of America. Like it or not.
    Hope you enjoyed some nice HotPot. Did you see the Pandas ?
  • Options
    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    China -
    Just as well we make Rolls Royces and RR Evoques then. Renault aren't going to sell them many Meganes.
    What a juicy prospect a rich Chimese market is. Lets hope we do not give it away to the Germans.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,339
    edited July 2014
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,267

    Retweeted by Nick Palmer
    Kevin Brennan ‏@KevinBrennanMP 7h
    Following Cameron's reshuffle every one of the Ministers at the Department for Education in Lords and Commons attended a private school

    Well, there's been an Education Secretary for the last 4 years who was educated in the state system and sent his children to state schools and all they did was sneer at him. So tough.

  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Flightpath
    We used to make pizzas, but now they own the company.
    First the came for our cheesy bread, and we did nothing....
    (Other businesses and franchises available at discount rates)
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2014
    My take from the reshuffle is that since every political heavyweight except May and Hammond was kicked out, its a reshuffle looking towards the post election period, either the tories win and the new guys get some more expirence or the tories lose and those new guys take to choose the next leader.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,591
    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Yes, communism fails because of a flaw in human nature, the same flaw does the same for capitalism.

    Vote pragmatic communist! or come the revolution we will not send you a Christmas card.

    I cannot recommend Taibbi's work highly enough. His anger at what the bankers did to our economy burns off the page and he is right.

    The key to a successful capitalist economy is the rule of law and holding everyone to account for their actions. It was America's USP for generations. It is no longer and that is ominous.

    If PPI was mass fraud why was no one prosecuted? If the LIBOR market was fixed why is no one in the UK being prosecuted? If the FX market, the gold market, pretty much every market is being fixed why is this ok or a matter for corporate/administrative fines?

    Markets cannot work without consequences. How bad does it need to get for the rest of us before someone pays and their colleagues learn again that there are consequences? Without this it is hard to imagine how bad it will be the next time.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Britain, free of the EU, and owned by foreigners.
    You have to laugh?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,249
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT After the bankers virtually bankrupt the world economy, maybe hiring some monkeys in the City and Wall Street would not be bad idea either

    The *bankers* - aka Global Capitalism - have recently raised 500 million Chinese out of abject poverty into a decent lifestyle, and they are busy doing the same to 1 billion East Asians, Africans and Latin Americans, a feat hitherto and singularly unachieveable by any other economic system known to mankind.
    Banking is essential to capitalism but these specific bankers are not, and can be replaced with other bankers. The absolute necessity for a police force does not require forgiving police corruption, the absolute necessity for the medical profession does not require forgiving malpracticing doctors, the absolute necessity for a free-market economy does not require forgiving monopolists. The system is not unbounded and must be regulated at the edges to prevent it being gamed/abused.

    Plus it also should be pointed out that science and technology have a role to play. If it wasn't for widespread vaccination, scientific food production, and dentistry, we'd still be dying in our forties with no teeth and five foot high

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,339
    SeanT By 2050 China will have one of the highest GDP per capita's in the world, but the USA will still be slightly higher, as indeed will Luxembourg and Singapore. Of course until the 17th century and before the rise of the European empires and the birth of the US China and India were the largest economies on the planet, so it is really a reversion to the norm
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @DavidL

    The sad answer is that, like our politicians, they are above the law, the company gets fined, and the people below pay for it.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Hugh said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Hugh said:
    Already linked to. It says the worst thing about the reshuffle was that it sacked the only two ministers who voted against gay marriage. I assume you agree.
    Didn't see an earlier link.

    Clearly, Charles Moore is stark raving mad, but for some reason I thought some here might appreciate his, ahem, analysis.
    He does seem to have lost his marbles. Doesn't the Spectator have some work-experience teenager available to check basic points for him? Cameron may, coincidentally or otherwise, have dismissed the only two cabinet ministers who voted against single-sex marriage, but he gave the most spectacular promotion to someone who also did so.

  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Yes, communism fails because of a flaw in human nature, the same flaw does the same for capitalism.

    Vote pragmatic communist! or come the revolution we will not send you a Christmas card.

    Its the same as religion (christianity and communism are almost identical anyway), people get greedy and corrupt, in religion the flock is kept in place by the wrath of God, in communism its the wrath of the KGB or the party secretary.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Speedy
    And in unrestrained capitalism, the greedy and corrupt get paid even more
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,267
    edited July 2014
    DavidL said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Yes, communism fails because of a flaw in human nature, the same flaw does the same for capitalism.

    Vote pragmatic communist! or come the revolution we will not send you a Christmas card.

    I cannot recommend Taibbi's work highly enough. His anger at what the bankers did to our economy burns off the page and he is right.

    The key to a successful capitalist economy is the rule of law and holding everyone to account for their actions. It was America's USP for generations. It is no longer and that is ominous.

    If PPI was mass fraud why was no one prosecuted? If the LIBOR market was fixed why is no one in the UK being prosecuted? If the FX market, the gold market, pretty much every market is being fixed why is this ok or a matter for corporate/administrative fines?

    Markets cannot work without consequences. How bad does it need to get for the rest of us before someone pays and their colleagues learn again that there are consequences? Without this it is hard to imagine how bad it will be the next time.
    There are a number of prosecutions in relation to LIBOR underway. Charges have been laid. The UBS rogue trader, Adoboli, has been convicted of fraud and jailed. People are suffering the consequences of their actions. Maybe not enough and maybe not fast enough. But it's not true that nothing has happened.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2014
    DavidL said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Yes, communism fails because of a flaw in human nature, the same flaw does the same for capitalism.

    Vote pragmatic communist! or come the revolution we will not send you a Christmas card.

    I cannot recommend Taibbi's work highly enough. His anger at what the bankers did to our economy burns off the page and he is right.

    The key to a successful capitalist economy is the rule of law and holding everyone to account for their actions. It was America's USP for generations. It is no longer and that is ominous.

    If PPI was mass fraud why was no one prosecuted? If the LIBOR market was fixed why is no one in the UK being prosecuted? If the FX market, the gold market, pretty much every market is being fixed why is this ok or a matter for corporate/administrative fines?

    Markets cannot work without consequences. How bad does it need to get for the rest of us before someone pays and their colleagues learn again that there are consequences? Without this it is hard to imagine how bad it will be the next time.
    The rule of law is a myth, not in europe or the USA is the rule of law not bendable.
    And not just now but since law was created there are always some people powerfull enough to bend it, break it or change it to suit themselves.
    Example: the robber barrons of the 19th century or the trusts of the 20th or the investment banks of the 21st.

    Try and read the The Robber Barons: The Great American Capitalists, 1861-1901 , by Matthew Josephso.
    The corruption oozes everywhere.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Basil is on the floor.......Labour lead is four!

    Show me the crossover.........Show me the crossover!!!!!

    The crossover proponents are addicted to the "conspiracy of silence" theory in which e.g., a GE2010 Lib Dem says "don't know or would not say ", then s/he is assumed to be a Lib Dem still despite 65% of GE2010 Lib Dems no longer support the party !!
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Speedy
    Or the Boston Tea Party?
    It is only when the people protest that anything really changes, and those at the top like to make sure we don't.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Smarmeron said:

    @Speedy
    And in unrestrained capitalism, the greedy and corrupt get paid even more

    But as always their system suffers a crash due to all the corruption and greed and stupidity now and then, the public pay the prise and they skidaddle to the caribbean.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Speedy said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Yes, communism fails because of a flaw in human nature, the same flaw does the same for capitalism.

    Vote pragmatic communist! or come the revolution we will not send you a Christmas card.

    Its the same as religion (christianity and communism are almost identical anyway), people get greedy and corrupt, in religion the flock is kept in place by the wrath of God, in communism its the wrath of the KGB or the party secretary.
    I respectfully disagree. Both Communism and Capitalism are about materialism. Communism sees the solution of mankinds unhappiness can be resolved by redistribution of material objects. The kingdom of God is not of this world, it is outside the material sphere.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    This is why Lynton Crosby is paid megabucks. He has certainly hurt Labour. We needed Gove at education to carry out his "reforms"
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Smarmeron said:

    @Speedy
    Or the Boston Tea Party?
    It is only when the people protest that anything really changes, and those at the top like to make sure we don't.

    That is true, Thatcher was going under only when the middle class rioted in London against the huge increase in housing taxes for them, also known as the poll tax in 1990.
    Or when the republicans lost the west coast after the 1992 L.A. riots, never to regain it again.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @foxinsoxuk

    " The kingdom of God is not of this world, it is outside the material sphere."

    But in almost all religions, it once was in the material sphere, and it might be good to understand what the hell they were saying when they were here.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,324
    edited July 2014
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Yes, communism fails because of a flaw in human nature, the same flaw does the same for capitalism.

    Vote pragmatic communist! or come the revolution we will not send you a Christmas card.

    I cannot recommend Taibbi's work highly enough. His anger at what the bankers did to our economy burns off the page and he is right.

    The key to a successful capitalist economy is the rule of law and holding everyone to account for their actions. It was America's USP for generations. It is no longer and that is ominous.

    If PPI was mass fraud why was no one prosecuted? If the LIBOR market was fixed why is no one in the UK being prosecuted? If the FX market, the gold market, pretty much every market is being fixed why is this ok or a matter for corporate/administrative fines?

    Markets cannot work without consequences. How bad does it need to get for the rest of us before someone pays and their colleagues learn again that there are consequences? Without this it is hard to imagine how bad it will be the next time.
    There are a number of prosecutions in relation to LIBOR underway. Charges have been laid. The UBS rogue trader, Adoboli, has been convicted of fraud and jailed. People are suffering the consequences of their action. Maybe not enough and maybe not fast enough. But it's not true that nothing has happened.
    I think it is worth remembering that banks like Goldman Sachs, UBS, etc. are huge organisations, and monitoring has historically been more about "is this person likely to lose the bank money", rather than "is this person doing something ethically dodgy".

    Until the LIBOR allegations surfaced, I had no idea that people at different banks would work together to give false impressions of price. I did know that the way LIBOR was determined was definitely odd (i.e. it was a survey, rather than a figure based on actual transactions), and (had I thought about it) would have realised that something calculated that way was liable to be 'fixed'.

    I very much doubt that senior people inside large organisations had any that LIBOR was being gamed.

    It is also worth noting that lots of things that used to be permissable are no longer allowed. At most firms, traders having conversations on their mobiles (to avoid their calls being logged and recorded) is strictly verboten. All communication these days is stored. Traders looking to manipulate markets may still be able to manage it - but it will be hard for them not to leave copious evidence.

    The job now is the for the justice system to realise that fixing the price of something, so it does not find its free market level, is stealing. People are paying the wrong price - perhaps millions of dollars too much in some cases - and this needs to be punished in a way commensurate with other frauds of that magnitude.
  • Options
    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Retweeted by Nick Palmer
    Kevin Brennan ‏@KevinBrennanMP 7h
    Following Cameron's reshuffle every one of the Ministers at the Department for Education in Lords and Commons attended a private school

    The entire content of labours Deputy Leader went to a private school. So did the not inconsiderable content of its Shadow Chancellor.
    Shall we list a few more? Well I suppose we could start with its Shadow Education Spokesman.

    Mr N Palmer is a card isn't he. I wonder what school he went to other than the international schools he admits to. Should it matter?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:



    Why's that then? Why am I sad?

    Because

    1. I earn too much money

    or

    2. I f*ck too many women age 18-35?

    I thought I'd reduce it to a multiple choice question so you'd understand

    To be fair, showing off to political nerds does border on sad-ish. Glad to see you back though. Lets hope things start livening up between now and May. It has been quite a boring period.

    With tim back as well it's just like old times!
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    YouGov: CON 34 LAB 38 LD 6 Ukip 13. LibDems at equal historic low - but could be MOE.

    LDs down from 10% five days ago - so they've lost 40% of their entire support since end of last week.

    A different set of results [ due to methodology ] between ICM and the rest is emerging.

    I wonder who will win the day.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2014

    Speedy said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Yes, communism fails because of a flaw in human nature, the same flaw does the same for capitalism.

    Vote pragmatic communist! or come the revolution we will not send you a Christmas card.

    Its the same as religion (christianity and communism are almost identical anyway), people get greedy and corrupt, in religion the flock is kept in place by the wrath of God, in communism its the wrath of the KGB or the party secretary.
    I respectfully disagree. Both Communism and Capitalism are about materialism. Communism sees the solution of mankinds unhappiness can be resolved by redistribution of material objects. The kingdom of God is not of this world, it is outside the material sphere.
    Jesus was the first communist, that is not just my opinion but also the Pope's.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    isam said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:



    Why's that then? Why am I sad?

    Because

    1. I earn too much money

    or

    2. I f*ck too many women age 18-35?

    I thought I'd reduce it to a multiple choice question so you'd understand

    To be fair, showing off to political nerds does border on sad-ish. Glad to see you back though. Lets hope things start livening up between now and May. It has been quite a boring period.

    With tim back as well it's just like old times!
    Is HE back ?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,939
    Tonights YG lab 347 CON 262 LD 15 Other 26

    Ed is crap is PM
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,591
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Yes, communism fails because of a flaw in human nature, the same flaw does the same for capitalism.

    Vote pragmatic communist! or come the revolution we will not send you a Christmas card.

    I cannot recommend Taibbi's work highly enough. His anger at what the bankers did to our economy burns off the page and he is right.

    The key to a successful capitalist economy is the rule of law and holding everyone to account for their actions. It was America's USP for generations. It is no longer and that is ominous.

    If PPI was mass fraud why was no one prosecuted? If the LIBOR market was fixed why is no one in the UK being prosecuted? If the FX market, the gold market, pretty much every market is being fixed why is this ok or a matter for corporate/administrative fines?

    Markets cannot work without consequences. How bad does it need to get for the rest of us before someone pays and their colleagues learn again that there are consequences? Without this it is hard to imagine how bad it will be the next time.
    There are a number of prosecutions in relation to LIBOR underway. Charges have been laid. The UBS rogue trader, Adoboli, has been convicted of fraud and jailed. People are suffering the consequences of their actions. Maybe not enough and maybe not fast enough. But it's not true that nothing has happened.
    It is honestly pitiful. These people stole nearly 1/3 of the GDP of the world. And it is apparently ok.

    Does anyone believe that those giving AAA ratings to borrowing junk were acting honestly?

    Does anyone believe that those who forced businesses to take Interest rate swops with collars that meant they ended up paying even more than their supposedly maximum rate were simply being sharp business people?

    Does anyone believe that those who were puffing assets that other parts of the same business were dumping at obscene profits should still be in business?

    Does anyone really think that Banks that laundered billions should still have banking permits?

    One or two token fall guys really does not even begin to cut it.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Speedy
    The present Pope scores highly on the Zen Christian "Top Twenty".
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    surbiton said:

    YouGov: CON 34 LAB 38 LD 6 Ukip 13. LibDems at equal historic low - but could be MOE.

    LDs down from 10% five days ago - so they've lost 40% of their entire support since end of last week.

    A different set of results [ due to methodology ] between ICM and the rest is emerging.

    I wonder who will win the day.
    We have seen that different set of results since late 2010, its not emerging now.
  • Options
    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    SeanT said:

    Is anyone else just BORED of f*cking teachers and their overpaid whingeing? Loathsome. Sack em all and start again, like Reagan did with the Air Traffic Controllers.

    I mean, how hard is it to teach 2+3 and then take 17 weeks paid holiday? Ugh. Wankers.

    Is this the basis for your next blog article?
    I must say I found the comments distasteful. There are no doubt bad teachers, average teachers and good teachers. But it is a bit facile to say its easy and to swear at them in the process.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    Where is Tim ?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Tonights YG lab 347 CON 262 LD 15 Other 26

    Ed is crap is PM

    LD projected with just 15 seats?
    I wonder how they will reach the 40 they are hoping.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    "The prime minister, who has often been criticised for a lackadaisical approach to government, showed that he had learnt from his political hero Harold Macmillan when he wielded the No 10 carving knife in a manner rarely seen in recent years. Macmillan famously sacked a third of his cabinet in 1962 in the "night of the long knives"."
    -----

    What happened in the GE that followed ?



    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/15/cameron-sacks-toxic-gove-promotes-women-reshuffle
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Smarmeron said:

    @Speedy
    Or the Boston Tea Party?
    It is only when the people protest that anything really changes, and those at the top like to make sure we don't.

    Boston Tea Party made things worse. What was a simple tax disagreement turned into a situation of violence and then a repressive response to that violence.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    All polling involves guess work based on previous patterns.
    How typical compared to the others, the next election is, will decide who wins the prize
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    Fwiw I think ICM will be more accurate on the Lab-Con battle for vote share thna the LD-UKIP tussle. Spiral of Silence gets downright funky at low poll numbers.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Speedy said:

    Tonights YG lab 347 CON 262 LD 15 Other 26

    Ed is crap is PM

    LD projected with just 15 seats?
    I wonder how they will reach the 40 they are hoping.
    This is serious. LD PP no longer needs a coach.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    High praise indeed from the Guardian for the reshuffle:

    If nothing else, Tuesday exposed the emptiness of complaints that there is no difference between our political parties. The difference revealed last night is enormous. The signals from Mr Cameron add up to a real and present danger which, carried to their conclusion, could redefine this country's place in the world for the worse, for years to come.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/15/conservatives-reshuffle-europe
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @Speedy
    The present Pope scores highly on the Zen Christian "Top Twenty".

    True, the Holy Ghost really choose the right man at the right moment when most of catholic europe is in poverty and decline and the rest of the west isn't doing that much greater.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Speedy
    A few of the Cardinals, and the odd Vatican banker might disagree?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    surbiton said:

    "The prime minister, who has often been criticised for a lackadaisical approach to government, showed that he had learnt from his political hero Harold Macmillan when he wielded the No 10 carving knife in a manner rarely seen in recent years. Macmillan famously sacked a third of his cabinet in 1962 in the "night of the long knives"."
    -----

    What happened in the GE that followed ?



    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/15/cameron-sacks-toxic-gove-promotes-women-reshuffle

    Macmillan was replaced by an honest man to fight the election.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The detective who nicked Stephen Lawrence's killers is on Newsnight saying he was leaned on by senior officers in the met who didn't want them caught, and who also didn't want politicians who used to abuse children in South London charged
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    @RCS1000

    One thing that disturbs me slightly from an intellectual viewpoint:

    Prosecuted rogue traders ALWAYS have huge losses. But there simply must have been rogue traders who have made super normal profits.

    Yet the principle of their actions being outside their scope is the same....

    I kind of get WHY its never happened - but if you approach investment banking as a pure intellectual exercise then surely there must be a rogue trader that has made super normal profits (Or ones that have perhaps even broke even !)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,339
    Speedy/Smarmeron As Cyclefree has stated there have been some convictions, as indeed there were over MPs' expenses and of course Lehmans was allowed to go bust
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Yes, communism fails because of a flaw in human nature, the same flaw does the same for capitalism.

    Vote pragmatic communist! or come the revolution we will not send you a Christmas card.

    Its the same as religion (christianity and communism are almost identical anyway), people get greedy and corrupt, in religion the flock is kept in place by the wrath of God, in communism its the wrath of the KGB or the party secretary.
    I respectfully disagree. Both Communism and Capitalism are about materialism. Communism sees the solution of mankinds unhappiness can be resolved by redistribution of material objects. The kingdom of God is not of this world, it is outside the material sphere.
    Jesus was the first communist, that is not just my opinion but also the Pope's.
    I am a non conformist Protestant. The pope often speaks bunkum!
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Smarmeron said:

    @Speedy
    A few of the Cardinals, and the odd Vatican banker might disagree?

    Well it would have been terrible for the catholic church if they had chosen a rich banker who liked lots of luxury, money and been a snob, especially at these times we live in.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Speedy
    Sack cloth and ashes might become the new Armani?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    isam said:

    The detective who nicked Stephen Lawrence's killers is on Newsnight saying he was leaned on by senior officers in the met who didn't want them caught, and who also didn't want politicians who used to abuse children in South London charged

    As per my facebook message to you - pretty sure "Peagate" lets call it has legs. Lots and lots and lots of legs.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy/Smarmeron As Cyclefree has stated there have been some convictions, as indeed there were over MPs' expenses and of course Lehmans was allowed to go bust

    And Bush W. was hailed as the greatest socialist in the history of america having nationalised the bank industry, the car industry and the plane industry and making america like France in 1982.
    By the way, Brown also implemented some of the 1983 Labour manifesto too with nationalising the banks.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,411
    edited July 2014
    Mr Driscoll told BBC Newsnight that while conducting a 1998 inquiry ...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28316874

    This is why the s##t could go everywhere. I do love the way the BBC are totally and utterly focused on saying the 1980's, 1980's, 1980's....I've no idea why they don't seem to have any interest in the 1970s, after all the dossier etc was very very early 1980's i.e I'm sure involved incidents / people alleged to be active in the 1970's.

    And of course we all know about PIE, and various high profile individuals links to that organisation, in the 1970's...

    But if you just listened to the BBC, you would think that establishment paedos only operated in the 1980's. Not before, not after.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Smarmeron said:

    @Speedy
    Sack cloth and ashes might become the new Armani?

    In the church definitely.
This discussion has been closed.