Anyway, moving on, the underlying position hasn't changed: we can vote Labour, LibDem or UKIP, and accept that the EU should walk all over us, or we can vote Conservative, try renegotiation, see what we can get, hold the referendum, and leave if the deal's not good enough.
Most succinctly put and a self evident truth.
What will be interesting will be the polling effect, if any, of today's outcome. My guess is that Cameron's ratings will improve (who cares about Coulson) over the next week - probably too early for Sunday's YouGov - and possibly a modest improvement in Con VI (much more tentative about that though).
"I hear one thing increasingly whispered about Dave in political and financial circles: the guy is a loser. And my word he lost big today. He bet the ranch on blocking Jean-Claude Juncker, the arch-federalist, as European Commission President. If the humiliation was his alone, it would be just deserts. But I am afraid he has caused our country to be humiliated too.
The painful truth is that Britain is a bit of a laughing stock today. And the idea that David Cameron is in any position to negotiate a radical new deal that will advance Britain’s interests in Brussels is looking ever more preposterous."
We're not a laughing stock though. The Americans love us. The Canadians and the Australians get on with us very well. Across the developing world, from Nigeria to India to China, the elites admire our culture and want to sent their kids to get British educations. It's only in the EU where we're mocked and insulted behind the scenes. The main reaction to Cameron's comment "if you don't accommodate our concerns, we'll likely leave" has been "good riddance". Why on Earth do we stay?
Perhaps today is a taste of how Dave's renegotiations will go should he get the chance...
..In which case we'll be out in 2017. Really very simple. Even greater reason for BOO folk to vote Tory in 2015 to get the bloody referendum. Again, really very simple.
"It was made clear yet again that the idea of an ever-closer union, as it is stated in the treaties, does not mean that there is equal speed among the member countries but there can be different speeds that member countries adopt to come to ever-closer union," says Merkel in
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
"I hear one thing increasingly whispered about Dave in political and financial circles: the guy is a loser. And my word he lost big today. He bet the ranch on blocking Jean-Claude Juncker, the arch-federalist, as European Commission President. If the humiliation was his alone, it would be just deserts. But I am afraid he has caused our country to be humiliated too.
The painful truth is that Britain is a bit of a laughing stock today. And the idea that David Cameron is in any position to negotiate a radical new deal that will advance Britain’s interests in Brussels is looking ever more preposterous."
We're not a laughing stock though. The Americans love us. The Canadians and the Australians get on with us very well. Across the developing world, from Nigeria to India to China, the elites admire our culture and want to sent their kids to get British educations. It's only in the EU where we're mocked and insulted behind the scenes. The main reaction to Cameron's comment "if you don't accommodate our concerns, we'll likely leave" has been "good riddance". Why on Earth do we stay?
@Socrates if you still can't see that Cameron will never ever vote to leave the EU (where, like Blair he will be eyeing a job) then you must indeed be myopic.
What will be interesting will be the polling effect, if any, of today's outcome. My guess is that Cameron's ratings will improve (who cares about Coulson) over the next week - probably too early for Sunday's YouGov - and possibly a modest improvement in Con VI (much more tentative about that though).
Hard to say. Maybe a little boostlet for Con and UKIP? Labour seem to be an irrelevance.
But more likely not much change. Most people won't have much idea what it's all about.
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
So you are changing the definition to fit your point which is verboten. If you claim Farage won the Euros then you have to apply the same definition to all elections.
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
So you are changing the definition to fit your point which is verboten. If you claim Farage won the Euros then you have to apply the same definition to all elections.
I was wrong anyway because Cameron won the 2009 Euros as Richard N has pointed out
But the point remains else I would say its 2-1 Cameron.. but he didn't win the 2010 GE
What will be interesting will be the polling effect, if any, of today's outcome. My guess is that Cameron's ratings will improve (who cares about Coulson) over the next week - probably too early for Sunday's YouGov - and possibly a modest improvement in Con VI (much more tentative about that though).
Hard to say. Maybe a little boostlet for Con and UKIP? Labour seem to be an irrelevance.
But more likely not much change. Most people won't have much idea what it's all about.
I'm confident the result will be practically zero. Reading through the comments on here, you can see how this one plays to one's pre-existing view, be that Cameron bravely standing up for Britain, being totally ineffective, or whatever.
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
So you are changing the definition to fit your point which is verboten. If you claim Farage won the Euros then you have to apply the same definition to all elections.
I was wrong anyway because Cameron won the 2009 Euros as Richard N has pointed out
But the point remains else I would say its 2-1 Cameron.. but he didn't win the 2010 GE
But he did! He got 306 MPs and 36% of the vote - more than Gordon and Labour! That's why Gordon had to - reluctantly - cede power to the Cons and Libs once they signed a deal on 11/5/2010
Memo to Mr Juncker, who might not be totally up to speed with the methods of the UK newspaper industry: If an attractive young lady 'researcher' flatters you and tries to chat you up, especially over a bottle or two of fine claret, drink only water and go straight home to Mrs Juncker.
I don't think we should be too hard on Cameron here. The country was united against Juncker and Cameron did the right thing in standing up for the UK's view, when he could have kept his head down and voted for the guy so it didn't get coverage.
I think we need to support him when he stands up for the UK.
I don't think we should be too hard on Cameron here. The country was united against Juncker and Cameron did the right thing in standing up for the UK's view, when he could have kept his head down and voted for the guy so it didn't get coverage.
I think we need to support him when he stands up for the UK.
I don't think we should be too hard on Cameron here. The country was united against Juncker and Cameron did the right thing in standing up for the UK's view, when he could have kept his head down and voted for the guy so it didn't get coverage.
I think we need to support him when he stands up for the UK.
Well he has probably done UKIP a favour I guess.. Juncker is hardly going to do him any favours on renegotiation now
To be honest the BBC News at 6 is awful for Cameron
Item 1 - Defeat to Juncker Item 2 - House prices only going up in London Item 3 - Cameron close adviser charged with 3 counts of making indecent photographs of children and possession of 59 indecent images Item 4 - British Muslims fighting in Syria
"Tall order considering that different sects of the same religion can't co-exist peacefully. "
Yeah, its strange that the media never report the ongoing war between the Methodists and the CofE. The ongoing series of Baptist suicide bombers as they try and shut down the BCP church movement is another notable feature of modern life that seldom seems to get a mention.
Or did you have a specific religion in mind.
The Catholics and Protestants in NI have always held hands in harmony
We have it's the republican\loyalist split which causes the problems.
I think speeches throughout the history of NI by leaders on both sides of the divide rather contradict that. As ever, many or most average Joes got along just fine, but at the heart of the trouble was the split between the Catholic republicans and Protestant Loyalists and religion was used in inflammatory ways in escalation.
Total bollocks really. Can you point out when any of the catholic or anglican bishops said "go on get stuck in there boys kill the bastards" ? The Irish clergy has usually been a calming influence.
You have a contorted view of religious violence. If I look at the last century the majority of violent deaths were cause through ethnic conflict or ideology not religion.
Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot weren't renowned as churchgoers.
Who said anything about bishops? Religion and religious belief was a factor in the troubles in NI, to pretend otherwise is fatuous. Are you a proddy? Are you a papist? I bet those words were never spat at someone before a kicking ensued. Religion is no more what a bishop says than faith is indicative of embracing all the extremes of the individual's church.
Edit - by leaders I was referring to the leaders of the two factions, not church leaders (except Paisley)
Sorry been out on family taxi run.
I've been through NI and had my fair share of "religious" discrimination. Except it isn't. It's hardline british nationalism meeting hardline irish nationalism. The religious angle is simply a convenient identifier, religion per se has very little to do with it.
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
So you are changing the definition to fit your point which is verboten. If you claim Farage won the Euros then you have to apply the same definition to all elections.
I was wrong anyway because Cameron won the 2009 Euros as Richard N has pointed out
But the point remains else I would say its 2-1 Cameron.. but he didn't win the 2010 GE
Well done Cameron..you were never going to win that fight..but you had the cojones to try..
Yup many Tories (such as moi) will be happy that he went in there, told it straight what he wanted, didn't use weasle words, and the EU - as he will paint it - disregarded, not to say disrespected (is that a word?) the UK's position.
Perfect positioning for a "more in sorrow than anger" view of the EU.
I don't think it will dent his EUphilia but it will be a neat win-win for him electorally when he comes to argue about the need for a referendum, the renegotiations and the UK's relationship with Europe.
"Tall order considering that different sects of the same religion can't co-exist peacefully. "
Yeah, its strange that the media never report the ongoing war between the Methodists and the CofE. The ongoing series of Baptist suicide bombers as they try and shut down the BCP church movement is another notable feature of modern life that seldom seems to get a mention.
Or did you have a specific religion in mind.
The Catholics and Protestants in NI have always held hands in harmony
We have it's the republican\loyalist split which causes the problems.
I think speeches throughout the history of NI by leaders on both sides of the divide rather contradict that. As ever, many or most average Joes got along just fine, but at the heart of the trouble was the split between the Catholic republicans and Protestant Loyalists and religion was used in inflammatory ways in escalation.
Total bollocks really. Can you point out when any of the catholic or anglican bishops said "go on get stuck in there boys kill the bastards" ? The Irish clergy has usually been a calming influence.
You have a contorted view of religious violence. If I look at the last century the majority of violent deaths were cause through ethnic conflict or ideology not religion.
Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot weren't renowned as churchgoers.
Go back 25 or so years. How easy was it for a Catholic lad to get a job in a Protestant-owned small builders? Genuine question, as I was told by Ulstermen that it could be difficult. And vice versa, to be fair.
Go up the social scale and it was a lot easier, according to my friends, who were from both sides.
Yeah that would be a fair comment, but twas ever thus things get tougher at the bottom of the economic scale than at the top. England was no different at various stages of its development until a community became integrated.
"Tall order considering that different sects of the same religion can't co-exist peacefully. "
Yeah, its strange that the media never report the ongoing war between the Methodists and the CofE. The ongoing series of Baptist suicide bombers as they try and shut down the BCP church movement is another notable feature of modern life that seldom seems to get a mention.
Or did you have a specific religion in mind.
The Catholics and Protestants in NI have always held hands in harmony
We have it's the republican\loyalist split which causes the problems.
I think speeches throughout the history of NI by leaders on both sides of the divide rather contradict that. As ever, many or most average Joes got along just fine, but at the heart of the trouble was the split between the Catholic republicans and Protestant Loyalists and religion was used in inflammatory ways in escalation.
Total bollocks really. Can you point out when any of the catholic or anglican bishops said "go on get stuck in there boys kill the bastards" ? The Irish clergy has usually been a calming influence.
You have a contorted view of religious violence. If I look at the last century the majority of violent deaths were cause through ethnic conflict or ideology not religion.
Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot weren't renowned as churchgoers.
Who said anything about bishops? Religion and religious belief was a factor in the troubles in NI, to pretend otherwise is fatuous. Are you a proddy? Are you a papist? I bet those words were never spat at someone before a kicking ensued. Religion is no more what a bishop says than faith is indicative of embracing all the extremes of the individual's church.
And not many bishops on the Protestant side either ...
There are about as many bishops on the anglican side as on tyhe catholic, it's a unit of organisation.
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
So you are changing the definition to fit your point which is verboten. If you claim Farage won the Euros then you have to apply the same definition to all elections.
I was wrong anyway because Cameron won the 2009 Euros as Richard N has pointed out
But the point remains else I would say its 2-1 Cameron.. but he didn't win the 2010 GE
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
So you are changing the definition to fit your point which is verboten. If you claim Farage won the Euros then you have to apply the same definition to all elections.
I was wrong anyway because Cameron won the 2009 Euros as Richard N has pointed out
But the point remains else I would say its 2-1 Cameron.. but he didn't win the 2010 GE
Who's the PM could have sworn it was Cameron.
Cleggs Deputy PM but he didn't come 2nd
Farage isn't in parliament because he got his arse handed to him at the election. What's your point?
To be honest the BBC News at 6 is awful for Cameron
Item 1 - Defeat to Juncker Item 2 - House prices only going up in London Item 3 - Cameron close adviser charged with 3 counts of making indecent photographs of children and possession of 59 indecent images Item 4 - British Muslims fighting in Syria
Like Labour, kippers rejoice in "bad" news - though what most of it has to do with Cameron is not clear. Presumably kippers would love us to go into recession. Opportunistic barstewards.
To be honest the BBC News at 6 is awful for Cameron
Item 1 - Defeat to Juncker Item 2 - House prices only going up in London Item 3 - Cameron close adviser charged with 3 counts of making indecent photographs of children and possession of 59 indecent images Item 4 - British Muslims fighting in Syria
Like Labour, kippers rejoice in "bad" news - though what most of it has to do with Cameron is not clear. Presumably kippers would love us to go into recession. Opportunistic barstewards.
Don't be childish, perdix, and try not to cry into your beer.
"Tall order considering that different sects of the same religion can't co-exist peacefully. "
Yeah, its strange that the media never report the ongoing war between the Methodists and the CofE. The ongoing series of Baptist suicide bombers as they try and shut down the BCP church movement is another notable feature of modern life that seldom seems to get a mention.
Or did you have a specific religion in mind.
The Catholics and Protestants in NI have always held hands in harmony
We have it's the republican\loyalist split which causes the problems.
I think speeches throughout the history of NI by leaders on both sides of the divide rather contradict that. As ever, many or most average Joes got along just fine, but at the heart of the trouble was the split between the Catholic republicans and Protestant Loyalists and religion was used in inflammatory ways in escalation.
Total bollocks really. Can you point out when any of the catholic or anglican bishops said "go on get stuck in there boys kill the bastards" ? The Irish clergy has usually been a calming influence.
You have a contorted view of religious violence. If I look at the last century the majority of violent deaths were cause through ethnic conflict or ideology not religion.
Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot weren't renowned as churchgoers.
Who said anything about bishops? Religion and religious belief was a factor in the troubles in NI, to pretend otherwise is fatuous. Are you a proddy? Are you a papist? I bet those words were never spat at someone before a kicking ensued. Religion is no more what a bishop says than faith is indicative of embracing all the extremes of the individual's church.
And not many bishops on the Protestant side either ...
There are about as many bishops on the anglican side as on tyhe catholic, it's a unit of organisation.
Moral never ask a heathen calvinist.
Uuurh??? Ah! got it. The original discussion was about episcopal incitement (or lack of it) in the Troubles, so perhaps a bit of context had got missing down the line ...
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
So you are changing the definition to fit your point which is verboten. If you claim Farage won the Euros then you have to apply the same definition to all elections.
I was wrong anyway because Cameron won the 2009 Euros as Richard N has pointed out
But the point remains else I would say its 2-1 Cameron.. but he didn't win the 2010 GE
Who's the PM could have sworn it was Cameron.
Cleggs Deputy PM but he didn't come 2nd
Farage isn't in parliament because he got his arse handed to him at the election. What's your point?
I made the point that Farage had won a national election whilst Cameron hadn't, but I was wrong because Cameron won the 09 Euros
To be honest the BBC News at 6 is awful for Cameron
Item 1 - Defeat to Juncker Item 2 - House prices only going up in London Item 3 - Cameron close adviser charged with 3 counts of making indecent photographs of children and possession of 59 indecent images Item 4 - British Muslims fighting in Syria
Like Labour, kippers rejoice in "bad" news - though what most of it has to do with Cameron is not clear. Presumably kippers would love us to go into recession. Opportunistic barstewards.
Who is rejoicing? I just noticed that the main 4 stories where all pretty bad news for Cameron
Are we not allowed to notice or mention it? I didn't offer any personal opinion, or say anything derogatory
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
So you are changing the definition to fit your point which is verboten. If you claim Farage won the Euros then you have to apply the same definition to all elections.
I was wrong anyway because Cameron won the 2009 Euros as Richard N has pointed out
But the point remains else I would say its 2-1 Cameron.. but he didn't win the 2010 GE
Who's the PM could have sworn it was Cameron.
Cleggs Deputy PM but he didn't come 2nd
Farage isn't in parliament because he got his arse handed to him at the election. What's your point?
I made the point that Farage had won a national election whilst Cameron hadn't, but I was wrong because Cameron won the 09 Euros
Fair play, you admitted your mistake, most just slink of for an hour or so and pretend it never happened.
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
So you are changing the definition to fit your point which is verboten. If you claim Farage won the Euros then you have to apply the same definition to all elections.
I was wrong anyway because Cameron won the 2009 Euros as Richard N has pointed out
But the point remains else I would say its 2-1 Cameron.. but he didn't win the 2010 GE
Who's the PM could have sworn it was Cameron.
Cleggs Deputy PM but he didn't come 2nd
Farage isn't in parliament because he got his arse handed to him at the election. What's your point?
I made the point that Farage had won a national election whilst Cameron hadn't, but I was wrong because Cameron won the 09 Euros
What is your definition of winning? Plurality/majority of votes/seats?
"Tall order considering that different sects of the same religion can't co-exist peacefully. "
Yeah, its strange that the media never report the ongoing war between the Methodists and the CofE. The ongoing series of Baptist suicide bombers as they try and shut down the BCP church movement is another notable feature of modern life that seldom seems to get a mention.
Or did you have a specific religion in mind.
The Catholics and Protestants in NI have always held hands in harmony
We have it's the republican\loyalist split which causes the problems.
I think speeches throughout the history of NI by leaders on both sides of the divide rather contradict that. As ever, many or most average Joes got along just fine, but at the heart of the trouble was the split between the Catholic republicans and Protestant Loyalists and religion was used in inflammatory ways in escalation.
Total bollocks really. Can you point out when any of the catholic or anglican bishops said "go on get stuck in there boys kill the bastards" ? The Irish clergy has usually been a calming influence.
You have a contorted view of religious violence. If I look at the last century the majority of violent deaths were cause through ethnic conflict or ideology not religion.
Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot weren't renowned as churchgoers.
Go back 25 or so years. How easy was it for a Catholic lad to get a job in a Protestant-owned small builders? Genuine question, as I was told by Ulstermen that it could be difficult. And vice versa, to be fair.
Go up the social scale and it was a lot easier, according to my friends, who were from both sides.
Yeah that would be a fair comment, but twas ever thus things get tougher at the bottom of the economic scale than at the top. England was no different at various stages of its development until a community became integrated.
Discrimination, either way was only in a very limited number of areas (Liverpool, Glasgow) and it was very difficult to differentiate unless there were religiously segregated schools.
One of the reasons why there should NOT be faith schools! People like Gove who happily approve them are storing up problems for their successors.
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
So you are changing the definition to fit your point which is verboten. If you claim Farage won the Euros then you have to apply the same definition to all elections.
I was wrong anyway because Cameron won the 2009 Euros as Richard N has pointed out
But the point remains else I would say its 2-1 Cameron.. but he didn't win the 2010 GE
Who's the PM could have sworn it was Cameron.
Cleggs Deputy PM but he didn't come 2nd
Farage isn't in parliament because he got his arse handed to him at the election. What's your point?
I made the point that Farage had won a national election whilst Cameron hadn't, but I was wrong because Cameron won the 09 Euros
Fair play, you admitted your mistake, most just slink of for an hour or so and pretend it never happened.
Thanks.
Yeah I have noticed that. Pathetic when people do it. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone loses arguments. Takes more of a man to admit defeat and move on!
I imagine those of us hoping Cameron might come up with a response to Juncker other than empty ''rue the day' threats worthy only of a bar room drunkard are going to be disappointed.
"Tall order considering that different sects of the same religion can't co-exist peacefully. "
Yeah, its strange that the media never report the ongoing war between the Methodists and the CofE. The ongoing series of Baptist suicide bombers as they try and shut down the BCP church movement is another notable feature of modern life that seldom seems to get a mention.
Or did you have a specific religion in mind.
The Catholics and Protestants in NI have always held hands in harmony
We have it's the republican\loyalist split which causes the problems.
I think speeches throughout the history of NI by leaders on both sides of the divide rather contradict that. As ever, many or most average Joes got along just fine, but at the heart of the trouble was the split between the Catholic republicans and Protestant Loyalists and religion was used in inflammatory ways in escalation.
Total bollocks really. Can you point out when any of the catholic or anglican bishops said "go on get stuck in there boys kill the bastards" ? The Irish clergy has usually been a calming influence.
You have a contorted view of religious violence. If I look at the last century the majority of violent deaths were cause through ethnic conflict or ideology not religion.
Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot weren't renowned as churchgoers.
Go back 25 or so years. How easy was it for a Catholic lad to get a job in a Protestant-owned small builders? Genuine question, as I was told by Ulstermen that it could be difficult. And vice versa, to be fair.
Go up the social scale and it was a lot easier, according to my friends, who were from both sides.
Yeah that would be a fair comment, but twas ever thus things get tougher at the bottom of the economic scale than at the top. England was no different at various stages of its development until a community became integrated.
Discrimination, either way was only in a very limited number of areas (Liverpool, Glasgow) and it was very difficult to differentiate unless there were religiously segregated schools.
One of the reasons why there should NOT be faith schools! People like Gove who happily approve them are storing up problems for their successors.
Ah right so skin colour was never a problem in England ? Good to know.
The best news of the day was that after Juncker's nomination he was "too happy" to give a press conference. "Maybe tomorrow", was the line from his aides.
Didn't Labour have a Foreign Secretary like that once?
I imagine those of us hoping Cameron might come up with a response to Juncker other than empty ''rue the day' threats worthy only of a bar room drunkard are going to be disappointed.
I've already given the response, at 5:38pm.
Despite all the bluster from Farage and others, in the real world, starting from the mess Labour got us into, it's the only possible one.
Now come on, isam's a nice guy, don't snigger at the obvious flaw in his logic.
You don't have to form a government to "win" the Euros, its whop gets the biggest % of the vote /wins most seats... but you cant claim to have "won" a GE if you need help from a rival to form Govt.
So you are changing the definition to fit your point which is verboten. If you claim Farage won the Euros then you have to apply the same definition to all elections.
I was wrong anyway because Cameron won the 2009 Euros as Richard N has pointed out
But the point remains else I would say its 2-1 Cameron.. but he didn't win the 2010 GE
Who's the PM could have sworn it was Cameron.
Cleggs Deputy PM but he didn't come 2nd
Farage isn't in parliament because he got his arse handed to him at the election. What's your point?
I made the point that Farage had won a national election whilst Cameron hadn't, but I was wrong because Cameron won the 09 Euros
What is your definition of winning? Plurality/majority of votes/seats?
Well its obvious from the fact that I think Farage won the 2015 Euros but Cameron didn't win the 2010 GE isn't it?
Euros = Most Votes & Seats GE = winning a majority
Europe declares war on the UK. We all know who wins this shit.
What scares me slighly is the utter uniformity from the other countries apart from the UK and Hungary. You'd think there'd be a slightly wider range of opinion from so many nations.
Very telling indeed. It shows how highly the UK is thought of by Europe.
No in this case you're wrong. It shows that the vast majority of EU leaders are thinking about their pockets; and these pockets are deep indeed. Not that they care a hoot about the UK of course, except when they cry to Britain to defend them.
I agree but the UK negotiating etc is pathetic. Cameron manages to upset everyone, Davy no pals. Been a long time since anybody needed defending and we tend to do that when it suits our own ends only as well.
"I hear one thing increasingly whispered about Dave in political and financial circles: the guy is a loser. And my word he lost big today. He bet the ranch on blocking Jean-Claude Juncker, the arch-federalist, as European Commission President. If the humiliation was his alone, it would be just deserts. But I am afraid he has caused our country to be humiliated too.
The painful truth is that Britain is a bit of a laughing stock today. And the idea that David Cameron is in any position to negotiate a radical new deal that will advance Britain’s interests in Brussels is looking ever more preposterous."
We're not a laughing stock though. The Americans love us. The Canadians and the Australians get on with us very well. Across the developing world, from Nigeria to India to China, the elites admire our culture and want to sent their kids to get British educations. It's only in the EU where we're mocked and insulted behind the scenes. The main reaction to Cameron's comment "if you don't accommodate our concerns, we'll likely leave" has been "good riddance". Why on Earth do we stay?
Europe declares war on the UK. We all know who wins this shit.
What scares me slighly is the utter uniformity from the other countries apart from the UK and Hungary. You'd think there'd be a slightly wider range of opinion from so many nations.
Very telling indeed. It shows how highly the UK is thought of by Europe.
No in this case you're wrong. It shows that the vast majority of EU leaders are thinking about their pockets; and these pockets are deep indeed. Not that they care a hoot about the UK of course, except when they cry to Britain to defend them.
I agree but the UK negotiating etc is pathetic. Cameron manages to upset everyone, Davy no pals. Been a long time since anybody needed defending and we tend to do that when it suits our own ends only as well.
Don't worry, rollover Salmond will give it all away for you :-)
Total bollocks really. Can you point out when any of the catholic or anglican bishops said "go on get stuck in there boys kill the bastards" ? The Irish clergy has usually been a calming influence.
You have a contorted view of religious violence. If I look at the last century the majority of violent deaths were cause through ethnic conflict or ideology not religion.
Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot weren't renowned as churchgoers.
Go back 25 or so years. How easy was it for a Catholic lad to get a job in a Protestant-owned small builders? Genuine question, as I was told by Ulstermen that it could be difficult. And vice versa, to be fair.
Go up the social scale and it was a lot easier, according to my friends, who were from both sides.
Yeah that would be a fair comment, but twas ever thus things get tougher at the bottom of the economic scale than at the top. England was no different at various stages of its development until a community became integrated.
Discrimination, either way was only in a very limited number of areas (Liverpool, Glasgow) and it was very difficult to differentiate unless there were religiously segregated schools.
One of the reasons why there should NOT be faith schools! People like Gove who happily approve them are storing up problems for their successors.
Ah right so skin colour was never a problem in England ? Good to know.
Sorry, problems with vanilla. My new post starts here.
One of the reasons, Mr Brooke. One of the reasons. Another is that children of different skin colours going to the same school differentiate by who is "nice" or not.
I've got grandchildren in such a situation. They're mixed race, there's some European children they don't like, several others, and several mixed, they do.
The guy who wrote South Pacific was right; you've got to be taught to be afraid/of people whose skins are a different shade/of people whose eyes are oddly made?You've got to be carefully taught.
"I hear one thing increasingly whispered about Dave in political and financial circles: the guy is a loser. And my word he lost big today. He bet the ranch on blocking Jean-Claude Juncker, the arch-federalist, as European Commission President. If the humiliation was his alone, it would be just deserts. But I am afraid he has caused our country to be humiliated too.
The painful truth is that Britain is a bit of a laughing stock today. And the idea that David Cameron is in any position to negotiate a radical new deal that will advance Britain’s interests in Brussels is looking ever more preposterous."
We're not a laughing stock though. The Americans love us. The Canadians and the Australians get on with us very well. Across the developing world, from Nigeria to India to China, the elites admire our culture and want to sent their kids to get British educations. It's only in the EU where we're mocked and insulted behind the scenes. The main reaction to Cameron's comment "if you don't accommodate our concerns, we'll likely leave" has been "good riddance". Why on Earth do we stay?
Look , another pig just flew past
Well catch him by the hoof and bring him home, Malc.
Those who are quick to pronounce on the appt of Junker as a defeat for Dave would do well to remember the old maxim" Revenge is a dish best served cold"
Europe declares war on the UK. We all know who wins this shit.
What scares me slighly is the utter uniformity from the other countries apart from the UK and Hungary. You'd think there'd be a slightly wider range of opinion from so many nations.
Very telling indeed. It shows how highly the UK is thought of by Europe.
No in this case you're wrong. It shows that the vast majority of EU leaders are thinking about their pockets; and these pockets are deep indeed. Not that they care a hoot about the UK of course, except when they cry to Britain to defend them.
I agree but the UK negotiating etc is pathetic. Cameron manages to upset everyone, Davy no pals. Been a long time since anybody needed defending and we tend to do that when it suits our own ends only as well.
Don't worry, rollover Salmond will give it all away for you :-)
Europe declares war on the UK. We all know who wins this shit.
What scares me slighly is the utter uniformity from the other countries apart from the UK and Hungary. You'd think there'd be a slightly wider range of opinion from so many nations.
Very telling indeed. It shows how highly the UK is thought of by Europe.
No in this case you're wrong. It shows that the vast majority of EU leaders are thinking about their pockets; and these pockets are deep indeed. Not that they care a hoot about the UK of course, except when they cry to Britain to defend them.
I agree but the UK negotiating etc is pathetic. Cameron manages to upset everyone, Davy no pals. Been a long time since anybody needed defending and we tend to do that when it suits our own ends only as well.
Don't worry, rollover Salmond will give it all away for you :-)
Those who are quick to pronounce on the appt of Junker as a defeat for Dave would do well to remember the old maxim" Revenge is a dish best served cold"
It is a defeat for him. However, it is a lost battle not a lost war.
It's a difficult one and really there is no answer just trade offs.
I recently worked for two jewish guys who increasingly did all their work with other jewish companies. Was that discrimination or people who felt more comfortable with their own community ?
Likewise in schools how do you prevent discrimination ?
Depending on how you cut the cake you'll always be "discriminating" against someone - race, religion, class, ability the choice is endless.
I thought Paxman's comments today were apt
"It's perfectly normal when you're young that you want to change the world.
"The older you get, the more you realise what a fools' errand much of that is and that the thing to do is to manage the best you can to the advantage of as many people as possible."
Just read with surprise that Juncker is only 59 - from his photos I'd guessed mid to late sixties......as a friend once observed of a horse "ridden hard and put up wet"......
The best news of the day was that after Juncker's nomination he was "too happy" to give a press conference. "Maybe tomorrow", was the line from his aides.
Didn't Labour have a Foreign Secretary like that once?
Be glad he didn't tell reporters to "just rejoice" at the news.
Europe declares war on the UK. We all know who wins this shit.
What scares me slighly is the utter uniformity from the other countries apart from the UK and Hungary. You'd think there'd be a slightly wider range of opinion from so many nations.
Very telling indeed. It shows how highly the UK is thought of by Europe.
No in this case you're wrong. It shows that the vast majority of EU leaders are thinking about their pockets; and these pockets are deep indeed. Not that they care a hoot about the UK of course, except when they cry to Britain to defend them.
I agree but the UK negotiating etc is pathetic. Cameron manages to upset everyone, Davy no pals. Been a long time since anybody needed defending and we tend to do that when it suits our own ends only as well.
Don't worry, rollover Salmond will give it all away for you :-)
Hello Alan, Unlike Cammo , Alex does have a pair
chortle
he'll cave in at the first negotiation in his desire to get a pat on the head from Mr Juncker
The best news of the day was that after Juncker's nomination he was "too happy" to give a press conference. "Maybe tomorrow", was the line from his aides.
Didn't Labour have a Foreign Secretary like that once?
Be glad he didn't tell reporters to "just rejoice" at the news.
He doesn't look the type to quote St. Francis of Assisi though.
What we need is a realistic debate on the pros and cons of European membership. But it's one thing we never will get because politicians and vested interests are involved.
We'll get advocates on one side or the other only mentioning favourable and usually false figures in an attempt to persuade. I know that's exactly the same as a GE campaign but we never learn anything useful in those anyway.
So Cammo's Juncker posturing was always going to be as productive as his pretend re-negotiations on the terms of membership will be. And probably for the same reason.
I do hope that's not what they said. Some exceptional areas in those regions recorded those figures but overall, house prices have risen in every region over the last year. The Land Registry's report is here:
It's true that there's a very marked north/south split with London prices continuing to surge to even more absurd levels but they really ought to quote the overall figures, not extreme local ones.
Europe declares war on the UK. We all know who wins this shit.
What scares me slighly is the utter uniformity from the other countries apart from the UK and Hungary. You'd think there'd be a slightly wider range of opinion from so many nations.
Very telling indeed. It shows how highly the UK is thought of by Europe.
No in this case you're wrong. It shows that the vast majority of EU leaders are thinking about their pockets; and these pockets are deep indeed. Not that they care a hoot about the UK of course, except when they cry to Britain to defend them.
I agree but the UK negotiating etc is pathetic. Cameron manages to upset everyone, Davy no pals. Been a long time since anybody needed defending and we tend to do that when it suits our own ends only as well.
Don't worry, rollover Salmond will give it all away for you :-)
Hello Alan, Unlike Cammo , Alex does have a pair
chortle
he'll cave in at the first negotiation in his desire to get a pat on the head from Mr Juncker
#bhaji-eating-surrender-monkey
The SNP have already "adopted the position":
SNP MEP Alyn Smith told BBC Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland: “From an SNP perspective we can do business with him.
I do hope that's not what they said. Some exceptional areas in those regions recorded those figures but overall, house prices have risen in every region over the last year. The Land Registry's report is here:
It's true that there's a very marked north/south split with London prices continuing to surge to even more absurd levels but they really ought to quote the overall figures, not extreme local ones.
Quite right, David.
The 26% is Waltham Forest and the -13% is Merthyr Tydfil. They are the extremes of the local area ranges.
The index figures are:
Property prices were up by 18.5% year-on-year in London in May, but only rose by 0.9% in the North East of England and 1.3% in the North West.
On average in England and Wales, prices were up 6.7%,
The only solution to this kind of mis-reporting is for the BBC to be sold to the highest bidder. Perhaps Sajid Javid can prepare the way by appointing Rebekah Brookes to Chair the BBC Trust.
I do hope that's not what they said. Some exceptional areas in those regions recorded those figures but overall, house prices have risen in every region over the last year. The Land Registry's report is here:
It's true that there's a very marked north/south split with London prices continuing to surge to even more absurd levels but they really ought to quote the overall figures, not extreme local ones.
They didn't say as I quoted it was specific places as you say
Lewisham and Waltham Forest were the London regions
Cant remember the Welsh one (Merthyr Tydfil?)
Blackburn was the Northern town
They showed a film of a lady in the North East who had paid £125k for a house last year that was now worth £100k, and the point they were making wasn London benefitted while the rest suffered, unlike the boom in th 90s
It's a difficult one and really there is no answer just trade offs.
I recently worked for two jewish guys who increasingly did all their work with other jewish companies. Was that discrimination or people who felt more comfortable with their own community ?
Likewise in schools how do you prevent discrimination ?
Depending on how you cut the cake you'll always be "discriminating" against someone - race, religion, class, ability the choice is endless.
I thought Paxman's comments today were apt
"It's perfectly normal when you're young that you want to change the world.
"The older you get, the more you realise what a fools' errand much of that is and that the thing to do is to manage the best you can to the advantage of as many people as possible."
Thanks for that. Appreciated. As for your Jewish friends; Coincidence? I knew freemasons who tended to work for and with other freemasons "because they knew them"
In schools ....... believe me, children, especially young children don't discriminate. As I said, I've got mixed race grandchildren at a mixed race school with all sorts of friends ..... the parents socials are quite something ..., and white grandchildren at schools which are almost exclusively white who don't seem to realise that their "darker friends" are mixed race.
As their grandfather, I don't give a FF.
I honestly don't think, at 70+ that I've ever deliberately discriminated against anyone on race or colour or religious grounds. There are some people I like and some people I don't. End of. White, black, yellow, whatever. Christian, Jewish, Moslem, Buddhist, whatever.
Just read with surprise that Juncker is only 59 - from his photos I'd guessed mid to late sixties......as a friend once observed of a horse "ridden hard and put up wet"......
He has been continually at the top end of politics (in Luxembourg, admittedly), for a quarter of a century, which has to take its toll. He became Finance Minister before the Berlin Wall fell and then on Jacques Santer being appointed EU Commission President (in a nice symmetry, as a compromise candidate accepted by John Major when he vetoed Jean-Luc Dehaene), served as Luxembourg PM for nearly 19 years. All those official dinners have got to take a toll.
Just read with surprise that Juncker is only 59 - from his photos I'd guessed mid to late sixties......as a friend once observed of a horse "ridden hard and put up wet"......
He has been continually at the top end of politics (in Luxembourg, admittedly), for a quarter of a century, which has to take its toll. He became Finance Minister before the Berlin Wall fell and then on Jacques Santer being appointed EU Commission President (in a nice symmetry, as a compromise candidate accepted by John Major when he vetoed Jean-Luc Dehaene), served as Luxembourg PM for nearly 19 years. All those official dinners have got to take a toll.
Luxembourg has a population of only 550,000.
It is about as strenuous as being Mayor of Bradford!
Europe declares war on the UK. We all know who wins this shit.
What scares me slighly is the utter uniformity from the other countries apart from the UK and Hungary. You'd think there'd be a slightly wider range of opinion from so many nations.
Very telling indeed. It shows how highly the UK is thought of by Europe.
No in this case you're wrong. It shows that the vast majority of EU leaders are thinking about their pockets; and these pockets are deep indeed. Not that they care a hoot about the UK of course, except when they cry to Britain to defend them.
I agree but the UK negotiating etc is pathetic. Cameron manages to upset everyone, Davy no pals. Been a long time since anybody needed defending and we tend to do that when it suits our own ends only as well.
Don't worry, rollover Salmond will give it all away for you :-)
I do hope that's not what they said. Some exceptional areas in those regions recorded those figures but overall, house prices have risen in every region over the last year. The Land Registry's report is here:
It's true that there's a very marked north/south split with London prices continuing to surge to even more absurd levels but they really ought to quote the overall figures, not extreme local ones.
They didn't say as I quoted it was specific places as you say
Lewisham and Waltham Forest were the London regions
Cant remember the Welsh one (Merthyr Tydfil?)
Blackburn was the Northern town
They showed a film of a lady in the North East who had paid £125k for a house last year that was now worth £100k, and the point they were making wasn London benefitted while the rest suffered, unlike the boom in th 90s
There is a valid point about the disconnect between London and the rest of the UK. Even so, I don't think it's true to say that "the rest [have] suffered"; most areas have seen prices rising modestly. For what it's worth, apart from those home owners thinking of moving out, I don't think that Londoners benefit at all from the ridiculous prices there.
I heard about that on the wireless. Seventy odd percent voted in favour of a strike, but only 23% of eligible members voted!
So maybe 2 million workers lose a day's pay, which probably a lot of them can't really afford, some members of the public will be inconvenienced but most won't notice, and nothing will change. What the point is I don't know.
I do hope that's not what they said. Some exceptional areas in those regions recorded those figures but overall, house prices have risen in every region over the last year. The Land Registry's report is here:
It's true that there's a very marked north/south split with London prices continuing to surge to even more absurd levels but they really ought to quote the overall figures, not extreme local ones.
They didn't say as I quoted it was specific places as you say
Lewisham and Waltham Forest were the London regions
Cant remember the Welsh one (Merthyr Tydfil?)
Blackburn was the Northern town
They showed a film of a lady in the North East who had paid £125k for a house last year that was now worth £100k, and the point they were making wasn London benefitted while the rest suffered, unlike the boom in th 90s
Good news for anyone who wants to buy in Blackburn then?
Just read with surprise that Juncker is only 59 - from his photos I'd guessed mid to late sixties......as a friend once observed of a horse "ridden hard and put up wet"......
He has been continually at the top end of politics (in Luxembourg, admittedly), for a quarter of a century, which has to take its toll. He became Finance Minister before the Berlin Wall fell and then on Jacques Santer being appointed EU Commission President (in a nice symmetry, as a compromise candidate accepted by John Major when he vetoed Jean-Luc Dehaene), served as Luxembourg PM for nearly 19 years. All those official dinners have got to take a toll.
Luxembourg has a population of only 550,000.
It is about as strenuous as being Mayor of Bradford!
I've seen what being leader of the Bradford Council can do to someone over five years, never mind nineteen!
Just read with surprise that Juncker is only 59 - from his photos I'd guessed mid to late sixties......as a friend once observed of a horse "ridden hard and put up wet"......
He has been continually at the top end of politics (in Luxembourg, admittedly), for a quarter of a century, which has to take its toll. He became Finance Minister before the Berlin Wall fell and then on Jacques Santer being appointed EU Commission President (in a nice symmetry, as a compromise candidate accepted by John Major when he vetoed Jean-Luc Dehaene), served as Luxembourg PM for nearly 19 years. All those official dinners have got to take a toll.
Luxembourg has a population of only 550,000.
It is about as strenuous as being Mayor of Bradford!
Europe declares war on the UK. We all know who wins this shit.
What scares me slighly is the utter uniformity from the other countries apart from the UK and Hungary. You'd think there'd be a slightly wider range of opinion from so many nations.
Very telling indeed. It shows how highly the UK is thought of by Europe.
No in this case you're wrong. It shows that the vast majority of EU leaders are thinking about their pockets; and these pockets are deep indeed. Not that they care a hoot about the UK of course, except when they cry to Britain to defend them.
I agree but the UK negotiating etc is pathetic. Cameron manages to upset everyone, Davy no pals. Been a long time since anybody needed defending and we tend to do that when it suits our own ends only as well.
Don't worry, rollover Salmond will give it all away for you :-)
Hello Alan, Unlike Cammo , Alex does have a pair
chortle
he'll cave in at the first negotiation in his desire to get a pat on the head from Mr Juncker
#bhaji-eating-surrender-monkey
The SNP have already "adopted the position":
SNP MEP Alyn Smith told BBC Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland: “From an SNP perspective we can do business with him.
And why not the man is a professional. You do not see them spreading scurrilous rumours about Cameron , that is a UK Westminster trick. Difference is as shown today by Alan he is also professional , whilst Hannon just did the Tory whinge routine. Tory = LOSER
I do hope that's not what they said. Some exceptional areas in those regions recorded those figures but overall, house prices have risen in every region over the last year. The Land Registry's report is here:
It's true that there's a very marked north/south split with London prices continuing to surge to even more absurd levels but they really ought to quote the overall figures, not extreme local ones.
They didn't say as I quoted it was specific places as you say
Lewisham and Waltham Forest were the London regions
Cant remember the Welsh one (Merthyr Tydfil?)
Blackburn was the Northern town
They showed a film of a lady in the North East who had paid £125k for a house last year that was now worth £100k, and the point they were making wasn London benefitted while the rest suffered, unlike the boom in th 90s
Good news for anyone who wants to buy in Blackburn then?
Just read with surprise that Juncker is only 59 - from his photos I'd guessed mid to late sixties......as a friend once observed of a horse "ridden hard and put up wet"......
He has been continually at the top end of politics (in Luxembourg, admittedly), for a quarter of a century, which has to take its toll. He became Finance Minister before the Berlin Wall fell and then on Jacques Santer being appointed EU Commission President (in a nice symmetry, as a compromise candidate accepted by John Major when he vetoed Jean-Luc Dehaene), served as Luxembourg PM for nearly 19 years. All those official dinners have got to take a toll.
Just read with surprise that Juncker is only 59 - from his photos I'd guessed mid to late sixties......as a friend once observed of a horse "ridden hard and put up wet"......
He has been continually at the top end of politics (in Luxembourg, admittedly), for a quarter of a century, which has to take its toll. He became Finance Minister before the Berlin Wall fell and then on Jacques Santer being appointed EU Commission President (in a nice symmetry, as a compromise candidate accepted by John Major when he vetoed Jean-Luc Dehaene), served as Luxembourg PM for nearly 19 years. All those official dinners have got to take a toll.
Luxembourg has a population of only 550,000.
It is about as strenuous as being Mayor of Bradford!
Europe declares war on the UK. We all know who wins this shit.
What scares me slighly is the utter uniformity from the other countries apart from the UK and Hungary. You'd think there'd be a slightly wider range of opinion from so many nations.
Very telling indeed. It shows how highly the UK is thought of by Europe.
No in this case you're wrong. It shows that the vast majority of EU leaders are thinking about their pockets; and these pockets are deep indeed. Not that they care a hoot about the UK of course, except when they cry to Britain to defend them.
I agree but the UK negotiating etc is pathetic. Cameron manages to upset everyone, Davy no pals. Been a long time since anybody needed defending and we tend to do that when it suits our own ends only as well.
Don't worry, rollover Salmond will give it all away for you :-)
Hello Alan, Unlike Cammo , Alex does have a pair
chortle
he'll cave in at the first negotiation in his desire to get a pat on the head from Mr Juncker
#bhaji-eating-surrender-monkey
The SNP have already "adopted the position":
SNP MEP Alyn Smith told BBC Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland: “From an SNP perspective we can do business with him.
You do not see them spreading scurrilous rumours about Cameron , that is a UK Westminster trick.
British spies 'may have sent online abuse to JK Rowling', SNP politician warns Christina McKelvie MSP says 'secret service plants' could be behind trolling of Harry Potter author after she spoke out against independence
Europe declares war on the UK. We all know who wins this shit.
What scares me slighly is the utter uniformity from the other countries apart from the UK and Hungary. You'd think there'd be a slightly wider range of opinion from so many nations.
Very telling indeed. It shows how highly the UK is thought of by Europe.
No in this case you're wrong. It shows that the vast majority of EU leaders are thinking about their pockets; and these pockets are deep indeed. Not that they care a hoot about the UK of course, except when they cry to Britain to defend them.
I agree but the UK negotiating etc is pathetic. Cameron manages to upset everyone, Davy no pals. Been a long time since anybody needed defending and we tend to do that when it suits our own ends only as well.
Don't worry, rollover Salmond will give it all away for you :-)
Hello Alan, Unlike Cammo , Alex does have a pair
chortle
he'll cave in at the first negotiation in his desire to get a pat on the head from Mr Juncker
#bhaji-eating-surrender-monkey
The SNP have already "adopted the position":
SNP MEP Alyn Smith told BBC Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland: “From an SNP perspective we can do business with him.
You do not see them spreading scurrilous rumours about Cameron , that is a UK Westminster trick.
British spies 'may have sent online abuse to JK Rowling', SNP politician warns Christina McKelvie MSP says 'secret service plants' could be behind trolling of Harry Potter author after she spoke out against independence
She's not paranoid, they really are out to get her!!!
Comments
What will be interesting will be the polling effect, if any, of today's outcome. My guess is that Cameron's ratings will improve (who cares about Coulson) over the next week - probably too early for Sunday's YouGov - and possibly a modest improvement in Con VI (much more tentative about that though).
I know a primary school in London that had a "Traveller's Awareness Week" but didn't put on a Christmas play.
How many new members has his party got? How many has Cammie lost?
He is on the up, while Cammies on the way down
STICK IT UP YOUR JUNCKER!
But more likely not much change. Most people won't have much idea what it's all about.
I am wearing orthopaedic shoes
True I suppose - and can we add Pirate Captain Juncker to the list too? Aaaaaarrr!
But the point remains else I would say its 2-1 Cameron.. but he didn't win the 2010 GE
Cue DC falling out of pubs and posing with 20 Bensons?
Spot on, Richard.
Seriously.
I don't think we should be too hard on Cameron here. The country was united against Juncker and Cameron did the right thing in standing up for the UK's view, when he could have kept his head down and voted for the guy so it didn't get coverage.
I think we need to support him when he stands up for the UK.
House prices in London up 26%
In Wales down 13%
In the North -7%
Item 1 - Defeat to Juncker
Item 2 - House prices only going up in London
Item 3 - Cameron close adviser charged with 3 counts of making indecent photographs of children and possession of 59 indecent images
Item 4 - British Muslims fighting in Syria
I've been through NI and had my fair share of "religious" discrimination. Except it isn't. It's hardline british nationalism meeting hardline irish nationalism. The religious angle is simply a convenient identifier, religion per se has very little to do with it.
Perfect positioning for a "more in sorrow than anger" view of the EU.
I don't think it will dent his EUphilia but it will be a neat win-win for him electorally when he comes to argue about the need for a referendum, the renegotiations and the UK's relationship with Europe.
Moral never ask a heathen calvinist.
step 2) PC types deflect argument onto bollox
step 3) original problem gets bigger
step 4) point out a medium sized problem that contradicts PC
step 5) PC types deflect argument onto bollox
step 6) original problem gets bigger
step 7) point out a large problem that contradicts PC
step 8) PC types deflect argument onto bollox
step 9) original problem gets bigger
step 10) BOOM!
Lab 35% (-2)
Cons 34% (+2)
UKIP 13% (nc)
LD 8% (-1)
Are we not allowed to notice or mention it? I didn't offer any personal opinion, or say anything derogatory
One of the reasons why there should NOT be faith schools! People like Gove who happily approve them are storing up problems for their successors.
Yeah I have noticed that. Pathetic when people do it. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone loses arguments. Takes more of a man to admit defeat and move on!
Didn't Labour have a Foreign Secretary like that once?
Despite all the bluster from Farage and others, in the real world, starting from the mess Labour got us into, it's the only possible one.
Euros = Most Votes & Seats
GE = winning a majority
I'm sure there'll be a discussion about that in the coming weeks. I suppose Cam will be able to explain why this is all he can do. If indeed it is.
Genuine question, as I was told by Ulstermen that it could be difficult. And vice versa, to be fair.
Go up the social scale and it was a lot easier, according to my friends, who were from both sides.
Yeah that would be a fair comment, but twas ever thus things get tougher at the bottom of the economic scale than at the top. England was no different at various stages of its development until a community became integrated.
Discrimination, either way was only in a very limited number of areas (Liverpool, Glasgow) and it was very difficult to differentiate unless there were religiously segregated schools.
One of the reasons why there should NOT be faith schools! People like Gove who happily approve them are storing up problems for their successors.
Ah right so skin colour was never a problem in England ? Good to know.
Sorry, problems with vanilla. My new post starts here.
One of the reasons, Mr Brooke. One of the reasons. Another is that children of different skin colours going to the same school differentiate by who is "nice" or not.
I've got grandchildren in such a situation. They're mixed race, there's some European children they don't like, several others, and several mixed, they do.
The guy who wrote South Pacific was right; you've got to be taught to be afraid/of people whose skins are a different shade/of people whose eyes are oddly made?You've got to be carefully taught.
He's much missed.
Perhaps he's being prevailed upon to avoid triumphalism.
If he rubs Cam's nose in it, he could probably guarantee Britain leaves at some juncture.
though I'd start a new line :-)
It's a difficult one and really there is no answer just trade offs.
I recently worked for two jewish guys who increasingly did all their work with other jewish companies. Was that discrimination or people who felt more comfortable with their own community ?
Likewise in schools how do you prevent discrimination ?
Depending on how you cut the cake you'll always be "discriminating" against someone - race, religion, class, ability the choice is endless.
I thought Paxman's comments today were apt
"It's perfectly normal when you're young that you want to change the world.
"The older you get, the more you realise what a fools' errand much of that is and that the thing to do is to manage the best you can to the advantage of as many people as possible."
""With other unions involved too, 10 July looks like being the second biggest dispute ever, with up to two million workers on strike.""
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28060836
he'll cave in at the first negotiation in his desire to get a pat on the head from Mr Juncker
#bhaji-eating-surrender-monkey
What is Ed's position on this strike?
For/against/get back to you/Full judge led enquiry?
We'll get advocates on one side or the other only mentioning favourable and usually false figures in an attempt to persuade. I know that's exactly the same as a GE campaign but we never learn anything useful in those anyway.
So Cammo's Juncker posturing was always going to be as productive as his pretend re-negotiations on the terms of membership will be. And probably for the same reason.
http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/93172/HPIReport20140624.pdf
It's true that there's a very marked north/south split with London prices continuing to surge to even more absurd levels but they really ought to quote the overall figures, not extreme local ones.
SNP MEP Alyn Smith told BBC Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland: “From an SNP perspective we can do business with him.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/snp-say-they-can-do-business-with-juncker-1-3459104
The 26% is Waltham Forest and the -13% is Merthyr Tydfil. They are the extremes of the local area ranges.
The index figures are:
Property prices were up by 18.5% year-on-year in London in May, but only rose by 0.9% in the North East of England and 1.3% in the North West.
On average in England and Wales, prices were up 6.7%,
The only solution to this kind of mis-reporting is for the BBC to be sold to the highest bidder. Perhaps Sajid Javid can prepare the way by appointing Rebekah Brookes to Chair the BBC Trust.
I understand she is free at present.
Lewisham and Waltham Forest were the London regions
Cant remember the Welsh one (Merthyr Tydfil?)
Blackburn was the Northern town
They showed a film of a lady in the North East who had paid £125k for a house last year that was now worth £100k, and the point they were making wasn London benefitted while the rest suffered, unlike the boom in th 90s
As for your Jewish friends; Coincidence? I knew freemasons who tended to work for and with other freemasons "because they knew them"
In schools ....... believe me, children, especially young children don't discriminate. As I said, I've got mixed race grandchildren at a mixed race school with all sorts of friends ..... the parents socials are quite something ..., and white grandchildren at schools which are almost exclusively white who don't seem to realise that their "darker friends" are mixed race.
As their grandfather, I don't give a FF.
I honestly don't think, at 70+ that I've ever deliberately discriminated against anyone on race or colour or religious grounds. There are some people I like and some people I don't. End of. White, black, yellow, whatever. Christian, Jewish, Moslem, Buddhist, whatever.
It is about as strenuous as being Mayor of Bradford!
So maybe 2 million workers lose a day's pay, which probably a lot of them can't really afford, some members of the public will be inconvenienced but most won't notice, and nothing will change. What the point is I don't know.
Dunno, Might be they are angry about something, and they can't get heard because of all those lobbyists with the fancy sound systems?
Christina McKelvie MSP says 'secret service plants' could be behind trolling of Harry Potter author after she spoke out against independence