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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Last Thursday’s local elections: Andy JS’s annual compilat

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  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited May 2014

    Could it be that you are reluctant to show us the figures from 2008 because the UK still hasn't recovered peak output where as France has ?

    I bow to no-one (except maybe Avery) in my admiration for George Osborne, but even he couldn't sort out the UK economy two years before taking office.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @TCPoliticalBetting

    '3.36m unemployed. Leftie economist Danny Blanchflower got the right forecast for the wrong country....'

    Maybe Blanchflower will explain how it's all gone wrong in France,afterall they were following his polices with a Socialist government to ensure they were implemented.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Evening All

    Has Cable gone yet? – what did I miss…! ; )
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited May 2014
    malcolmg said:

    Afternoon all, can someone please give me a link to this LibDem poll everyone has been talking about for 2 days.

    Incidentally I wouldn't bet on Danny Alexander losing his seat regardless of what any poll might say. He is incredibly popular locally and very high profile/hard working. There is growing resentment at the SNP foisting average speed cameras on the A9 travelling public when the overwhelming view of the local population is we don't want them. Danny is leading the fight.

    Easterross, He could not lead a conga, deserves to be toast , and has more faces than the town clock.
    It remains to be seen however, if he can kick a football without looking like a complete turnip, and not expect it to rebound and bounce off his jowly visage.

    Unlike someone else.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    There is growing resentment at the SNP foisting average speed cameras on the A9 travelling public when the overwhelming view of the local population is we don't want them.

    Any particular reason why?
    Most of the serious road accidents are caused by frustrated car drivers spending upwards of 30mins driving at 40mph behind several lorries on a 60mph road with single carriageway and rare bits of dual carriageway. They are meant to pull into laybys to allow others to pass but many, especially those from the Central Belt and England dont. Proposal is to put average speed cameras on the single carriageway stretches and raise lorry speed to 50mph. Will make little difference as the decent lorry drivers already drive at 50mph but with average cameras all drivers will need to stick to limit. Fewer than 20 miles of the 100 mile route between Perth and Inverness are dual carriageway and average speed cameras will limit opportunity for overtaking in the clearer single carriageway stretches. Most of us who drive that road regularly reckon 1) the number of accidents will increase due to increased frustration and 2) it is just a revenue raising project by the SNP.

    Under the SNP, the time it takes me to drive from home to Glasgow has increased on average by 30 minutes compared to when Margaret Thatcher was PM. This is due to the frequency of the limited dual carriageway stretches between coned off into single carriageway and the vastly increased volume of freight traffic on the road.
    It made a huge difference on the A77, accident rate plummeted after cameras were installed, they are a pain but on A77 with lots of small roads with farm traffic etc similar to A9 joining it has saved countless lives.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Could it be that you are reluctant to show us the figures from 2008 because the UK still hasn't recovered peak output where as France has ?

    I bow to no-one (except maybe Avery) in my admiration for George Osborne, but even he couldn't sort out the UK economy two years before taking office.
    Mr N I can certainly agree with that, but our Osborne rampers would have us believe he has solved all our problems whereas the truth is he's had a pretty average performance and we aren't out of the woods. If we wish to compare our performance to other nations we've fallen behind in the last 5 years and current policies of London house prices and big banks will only result in more of the policies that have failed us.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Hmm wonder if Kevin is worth a punt against Adrian Foster in Portsmouth, although by the looks of those results he may have to fight off a UKIP surge if it continues !
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:
    Thurrock nailed on for GE2015 then :P ?
    Cant believe they arent 2nd favs, ludicrous



  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @surbiton

    ' Let us also see the growth rates from mid 2010 onwards ? I know you can'

    Can you remind us of the growth rates from 2005 to 2010?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:
    Thurrock nailed on for GE2015 then :P ?
    Actually that article is quite interesting. Despite the headline, what it actually seems to be about is not a coalition at all but a Labour minority administration and a confidence-and-supply deal.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Bloody Muslims, causing religious problems in Northern Ireland

    Northern Ireland's first minister, Peter Robinson, has come under intense scrutiny for defending a pastor who described Islam as "satanic" and "heathen"

    Pastor James McConnell, an evangelical Protestant preacher, delivered an incendiary sermon earlier this month where he claimed "Islam is a doctrine spawned in hell" and compared Muslims to the IRA.

    Asked about the sermon, Mr Robinson, who has attended the same church in the past, insisted the pastor does not have "an ounce of hatred in his bones" and claimed it is the "duty of any Christian preacher to denounce a false doctrine".

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/northern-irelands-peter-robinson-caught-in-religious-row-after-defending-preachers-evil-islam-sermon-9448523.html
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    malcolmg said:

    Afternoon all, can someone please give me a link to this LibDem poll everyone has been talking about for 2 days.

    Incidentally I wouldn't bet on Danny Alexander losing his seat regardless of what any poll might say. He is incredibly popular locally and very high profile/hard working. There is growing resentment at the SNP foisting average speed cameras on the A9 travelling public when the overwhelming view of the local population is we don't want them. Danny is leading the fight.

    Easterross, He could not lead a conga, deserves to be toast , and has more faces than the town clock.
    It remains to be seen however, if he can kick a football without looking like a complete turnip, and not expect it to rebound and bounce off his jowly visage.

    Unlike someone else.
    Quality post from you as ever
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2014
    @Alanbrooke

    more leger de main Mr Pole.

    Could it be that you are reluctant to show us the figures from 2008 because the UK still hasn't recovered peak output where as France has ? Could it be that George's genius for houseprice inflation still hasn't overtaken flabby Francois' reverse Midas touch ?


    Would you like me to go back to the ancien régime, Mr. Brooke?

    You would certainly have to go back to the times of Marie Antoinette to find an equal to St. George.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Bloody Muslims, causing religious problems in Northern Ireland

    Northern Ireland's first minister, Peter Robinson, has come under intense scrutiny for defending a pastor who described Islam as "satanic" and "heathen"

    Pastor James McConnell, an evangelical Protestant preacher, delivered an incendiary sermon earlier this month where he claimed "Islam is a doctrine spawned in hell" and compared Muslims to the IRA.

    Asked about the sermon, Mr Robinson, who has attended the same church in the past, insisted the pastor does not have "an ounce of hatred in his bones" and claimed it is the "duty of any Christian preacher to denounce a false doctrine".

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/northern-irelands-peter-robinson-caught-in-religious-row-after-defending-preachers-evil-islam-sermon-9448523.html

    Racist.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Mr N I can certainly agree with that, but our Osborne rampers would have us believe he has solved all our problems whereas the truth is he's had a pretty average performance and we aren't out of the woods.

    Given that he started from a worse position than any other major Western economy, and was hit by headwinds of unexpectedly high commodity prices and the Eurozone crisis, it's a hell of a lot better than a 'pretty average performance'. It's true that we're not out of the woods, but that's not a surprise; the key point is that we are (for now) going in the right direction. Some other countries are going in the wrong direction. Which do you prefer? That is the choice for 2015.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    AveryLP said:

    @Alanbrooke

    more leger de main Mr Pole.

    Could it be that you are reluctant to show us the figures from 2008 because the UK still hasn't recovered peak output where as France has ? Could it be that George's genius for houseprice inflation still hasn't overtaken flabby Francois' reverse Midas touch ?


    Would you like me to go back to the ancien régime, Mr. Brooke?

    You would certainly have to go back to the times of Marie Antoinette to find an equal to St. George.

    No just 2008 thanks. I think we both know what the answer is.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Mr N I can certainly agree with that, but our Osborne rampers would have us believe he has solved all our problems whereas the truth is he's had a pretty average performance and we aren't out of the woods.

    Given that he started from a worse position than any other major Western economy, and was hit by headwinds of unexpectedly high commodity prices and the Eurozone crisis, it's a hell of a lot better than a 'pretty average performance'. It's true that we're not out of the woods, but that's not a surprise; the key point is that we are (for now) going in the right direction. Some other countries are going in the wrong direction. Which do you prefer? That is the choice for 2015.

    It's a pretty average performance. An ordinary Chancellor in extraordinary times. He has ducked structural reform and left it all for his successor to do.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    Smarmeron said:

    @TheWatcher

    I don't mock the idea of "The Big Society" I just find it insane for people to preach "socialism" in local government, and privatization and "free markets" everywhere else.

    Not sure TBS is about socialism. It's a figleaf for local government to withdraw from service provision in the vain hope that volunteers will pick up the responsibility. In effect, charity. Unfortunately, the baby boomer generation which has the time and resources to contribute hasn't really risen to the challenge.
    An accusation you could lay at the Baby Boom's door more generally, with some degree of justification, given how they have ripped off Gen X.

    However, why anyone would relish the opportunity to pick up others' dog poo when we already pay taxes for that has never been immediately obvious.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    It's a pretty average performance. An ordinary Chancellor in extraordinary times. He has ducked structural reform and left it all for his successor to do.

    Quite the opposite. He has been a great reforming Chancellor. The introduction of the OBR, the reform of banking and most importantly the regulatory framework, the strengthening of the Bank of England, the anti-tax avoidance reforms, and the dramatic reductions in corporate tax rates add together to a very impressive package.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Mr N I can certainly agree with that, but our Osborne rampers would have us believe he has solved all our problems whereas the truth is he's had a pretty average performance and we aren't out of the woods.

    Given that he started from a worse position than any other major Western economy, and was hit by headwinds of unexpectedly high commodity prices and the Eurozone crisis, it's a hell of a lot better than a 'pretty average performance'. It's true that we're not out of the woods, but that's not a surprise; the key point is that we are (for now) going in the right direction. Some other countries are going in the wrong direction. Which do you prefer? That is the choice for 2015.

    It's a pretty average performance. An ordinary Chancellor in extraordinary times. He has ducked structural reform and left it all for his successor to do.
    Achieving the highest rate of GDP growth among G7 countries at the same time as achieving the highest rate of fiscal consolidation among the same group is an EXTRAORDINARY performance, Mr. Brooke.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think you and Socrates have been a little harsh on Africa. Zambia has had average growth of 6.4% per year for the last decade according to the world bank:

    http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/zambia/overview

    There are several other notable economic success stories. Botswana has arguably the most successful economy and economic growth of the last 50 years.

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    surbiton said:

    @Alanbrooke - It is absolutely horrific. There are hundreds dying and if they make it over their lives are pretty miserable by our standards. The African blokes who pound the streets and beaches of the Med cities selling knock-off tat and constantly looking over their shoulders for the police must live on only a pittance. Yet it is still so much better than what they have left behind.

    No my argument rests on the comparison between Asia which has made staggering progress in lifting itself out of poverty and Africa which has stagnated in the post colonial period. Africa's history since the 1960s has been one of missed opportunity and however the West has tried to engage with the continent it has not been adequate or efficient. If you look at the original post i stated that a glimpse of progress has only started in thge last decade. That's got more to do with countries slowly getting their acts and intitutions together rather than aid budgets.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:
    Thurrock nailed on for GE2015 then :P ?
    Actually that article is quite interesting. Despite the headline, what it actually seems to be about is not a coalition at all but a Labour minority administration and a confidence-and-supply deal.
    And the party that won by 9% not sighted!
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    "One nation" is truly hitting home... don't read the following if you don't like naughty words..
    Actually I'll edit the offending word....


    Ed Miliband‏@Ed_Miliband·1 min
    Today I saw a brilliant One Nation Labour Party offering real change for Newark. Will you join them this weekend? https://www.facebook.com/events/624264700974981/?ref=22
    Collapse Reply


    VendettaBeretta‏@VendettaBeretta·1m
    @Ed_Miliband F*ck off beaker

    William‏@willbungay·1m
    @Ed_Miliband F*ck off Beaker
    Expand Reply

    Susie ‏@Susie1270·1m
    @Ed_Miliband f*ck off beaker


    CHWIS‏@whitesweed·1m
    @Ed_Miliband f*ck off beaker


    Steve‏@bullcrapmonger·43s
    @Ed_Miliband f*ck off beaker


    Proof morons are alive and well on Twitter.

    In other news, it sometimes rains in England etc etc
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    It's a pretty average performance. An ordinary Chancellor in extraordinary times. He has ducked structural reform and left it all for his successor to do.

    Quite the opposite. He has been a great reforming Chancellor. The introduction of the OBR, the reform of banking and most importantly the regulatory framework, the strengthening of the Bank of England, the anti-tax avoidance reforms, and the dramatic reductions in corporate tax rates add together to a very impressive package.
    Ah yes his Blair mantra - regulation, regulation, regulation.

    You're confusing activity with action I'm afraid.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:
    Thurrock nailed on for GE2015 then :P ?
    Actually that article is quite interesting. Despite the headline, what it actually seems to be about is not a coalition at all but a Labour minority administration and a confidence-and-supply deal.
    And the party that won by 9% not sighted!
    No point getting into power before you need to - especially as a 'junior partner'. Look at what it's done for the Lib Dems !
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    malcolmg said:

    There is growing resentment at the SNP foisting average speed cameras on the A9 travelling public when the overwhelming view of the local population is we don't want them.

    Any particular reason why?
    Most of the serious road accidents are caused by frustrated car drivers spending upwards of 30mins driving at 40mph behind several lorries on a 60mph road with single carriageway and rare bits of dual carriageway. They are meant to pull into laybys to allow others to pass but many, especially those from the Central Belt and England dont. Proposal is to put average speed cameras on the single carriageway stretches and raise lorry speed to 50mph. Will make little difference as the decent lorry drivers already drive at 50mph but with average cameras all drivers will need to stick to limit. Fewer than 20 miles of the 100 mile route between Perth and Inverness are dual carriageway and average speed cameras will limit opportunity for overtaking in the clearer single carriageway stretches. Most of us who drive that road regularly reckon 1) the number of accidents will increase due to increased frustration and 2) it is just a revenue raising project by the SNP.

    Under the SNP, the time it takes me to drive from home to Glasgow has increased on average by 30 minutes compared to when Margaret Thatcher was PM. This is due to the frequency of the limited dual carriageway stretches between coned off into single carriageway and the vastly increased volume of freight traffic on the road.
    It made a huge difference on the A77, accident rate plummeted after cameras were installed, they are a pain but on A77 with lots of small roads with farm traffic etc similar to A9 joining it has saved countless lives.
    I have been through the anguish of having a Tanker driver working for me involved in a head on crash,he survived but one person killed and two injured. I cringed in court when he said "If I drove at 40 MPH I would have a queue a mile long behind me",the tacho showed 50 MPH. I had to talk to the relatives etc,impossible to defend,so I am 100% for the speed limits.
    His union picked up the costs of his defence. It became impossible to employ him any longer.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Afternoon all, can someone please give me a link to this LibDem poll everyone has been talking about for 2 days.

    Incidentally I wouldn't bet on Danny Alexander losing his seat regardless of what any poll might say. He is incredibly popular locally and very high profile/hard working. There is growing resentment at the SNP foisting average speed cameras on the A9 travelling public when the overwhelming view of the local population is we don't want them. Danny is leading the fight.

    Easterross, He could not lead a conga, deserves to be toast , and has more faces than the town clock.
    It remains to be seen however, if he can kick a football without looking like a complete turnip, and not expect it to rebound and bounce off his jowly visage.

    Unlike someone else.
    Quality post from you as ever
    My pleasure.

    Incidentally, has it occurred to you that in an independent Scotland, you'd have to relinquish the personalised plates on your Munich mini-cab, and re-register the vehicle?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited May 2014
    These astro-droids LibDems are getting quite out of hand. Even I can't understand their logic at times!
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    MrJones said:

    Incredible really that the Tories fared so badly in the locals after holding down Council Tax so effectively for 4 years, after Brown & Co. had let it rip for year after year.
    People do indeed have very short memories ..... oh well only one more year to go before this huge burden on the household budget resumes its upward trajectory with more untold and uncontrolled waste.

    Owner occupiers pay council tax, owner-occupiers vote.

    Landlords pay council tax, tenants vote.
    I don't know who you have been talking to but as a renter for years and knowing lots of other renters I can assure you as far as the council are concerned the one living in the house is the one responsible for paying council tax not the one owning it.

    I have never yet not had to pay council tax as a renter and the landlord pays nothing

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited May 2014
    Dr Vince looking very shifty on the news saying that he only though Lord O was polling his constituency.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2014
    My oh My!

    Oona King on The One Show speaking sense about the WWC being the minority/moving out of their home in East London.

    I guess as her Grandparents fit into that category, and she is mixed race she is one of the few people able to speak the truth without being called racist... or have someone passively aggressively imply it with unfunny sarcasm
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    Smarmeron said:

    @TheWatcher

    I don't mock the idea of "The Big Society" I just find it insane for people to preach "socialism"

    This deserves a huge big like from me sadly the means to do so has been removed

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited May 2014
    JackW said:

    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election Prediction Countdown :

    14 hours 15 minutes 16 seconds

    You going to point your ARSE towards Newark soon?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @ZenPagan

    Nice edit, do you work for the Daily Fail or the Torygraph?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited May 2014
    isam said:

    And the party that won by 9% not sighted!

    They did very well in this round, but they've got 6 seats out of 49. What do they expect - flowers? Meanwhile, someone has to run the Council, and Labour remains the largest group with 23 seats.

    Not everything is an anti-UKIP conspiracy.

    In any case, I don't know about Thanet, but last year elsewhere in Kent and Sussex UKIP refused to join administrations where they held the balance of power:

    http://www.conservativehome.com/localgovernment/2013/05/ukip-spurn-county-coalitions-with-conservatives.html

    You can't have it both ways: "The message from head office is ‘no deals’" and then bitching that you're not included!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    And the party that won by 9% not sighted!

    They did very well in this round, but they've got 6 seats out of 49. What do they expect - flowers? Meanwhile, someone has to run the Council, and Labour remains the largest group with 23 seats.

    Not everything is an anti-UKIP conspiracy.

    In any case, I don't know about Thanet, but last year elsewhere in Kent and Sussex UKIP have refused to join administrations where they've held the balance of power:

    http://www.conservativehome.com/localgovernment/2013/05/ukip-spurn-county-coalitions-with-conservatives.html

    You can't have it both ways: "The message from head office is ‘no deals’" and then bitching that you're not included!
    Keep your hair on I was just kidding, not complaining. It does seem odd, but thats the system.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited May 2014
    The Lib-Dem implosion (and UKIP's rise) has certainly been good business. PB's global Alexa ranking has gone under 200,000 for the first time in recent day's.

    If Mike can get into the top 100,000 he'll have the Ad Networks coming to HIM.

    Congrats Mike, Robert and TSE. Has been a fun few weeks. :D
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    Socrates said:


    No my argument rests on the comparison between Asia which has made staggering progress in lifting itself out of poverty and Africa which has stagnated in the post colonial period. Africa's history since the 1960s has been one of missed opportunity and however the West has tried to engage with the continent it has not been adequate or efficient. If you look at the original post i stated that a glimpse of progress has only started in thge last decade. That's got more to do with countries slowly getting their acts and intitutions together rather than aid budgets.

    That uptick is highly correlated with international aid being focused on development. Before then it was mainly about giving them money no questions asked to keep them in the communist or capitalist bloc. So the 1950s-1980s comparison makes very little sense, while the 1990s-2000s period where international aid was put into practice has seen huge returns.

    Much of the international aid has focused on institution-building and civic society creation directly. A great deal more has gone into improving access to education, often by addressing health problems that stop children attending schools, which also increases participatory democracy. This stuff isn't all a coincidence.
    Whereas I'd say it is. Aid budgets aren't causing some African coutries to have growth rates of 6-7%. Trade and a change in insitutions are.
    Is it true that our contribution to the EU easily dwarfs the overseas aid budget?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    GIN1138 said:

    The Lib-Dem implosion (and UKIP's rise) has certainly been good business. PB's global Alexa ranking has gone under 200,000 for the first time in recent day's.

    If Mike can get into the top 100,000 he'll have the Ad Networks coming to HIM.

    Congrats Mike, Robert and TSE. Has been a fun few weeks. :D

    Fun? Every time Mike goes on holiday something major happens.

    Someone said to me last night, a piece by me could force Nick out if people thought it was by Mike.

    Last time it was Syria.

    Just you watch, Mike's going to get an expenses paid holiday by Yes Scotland to coincide with the Indyref
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    ZenPagan said:

    MrJones said:

    Incredible really that the Tories fared so badly in the locals after holding down Council Tax so effectively for 4 years, after Brown & Co. had let it rip for year after year.
    People do indeed have very short memories ..... oh well only one more year to go before this huge burden on the household budget resumes its upward trajectory with more untold and uncontrolled waste.

    Owner occupiers pay council tax, owner-occupiers vote.

    Landlords pay council tax, tenants vote.
    I don't know who you have been talking to but as a renter for years and knowing lots of other renters I can assure you as far as the council are concerned the one living in the house is the one responsible for paying council tax not the one owning it.

    I have never yet not had to pay council tax as a renter and the landlord pays nothing

    The point i didn't make very well was if the proportion of renters to owner occupiers changes in an area then council tax might have a more indirect effect on elections.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    ZenPagan said:

    MrJones said:

    Incredible really that the Tories fared so badly in the locals after holding down Council Tax so effectively for 4 years, after Brown & Co. had let it rip for year after year.
    People do indeed have very short memories ..... oh well only one more year to go before this huge burden on the household budget resumes its upward trajectory with more untold and uncontrolled waste.

    Owner occupiers pay council tax, owner-occupiers vote.

    Landlords pay council tax, tenants vote.
    I don't know who you have been talking to but as a renter for years and knowing lots of other renters I can assure you as far as the council are concerned the one living in the house is the one responsible for paying council tax not the one owning it.

    I have never yet not had to pay council tax as a renter and the landlord pays nothing

    Yep,as a Landlord,this is standard in tenancy agreements,or it is in mine.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    "One nation" is truly hitting home... don't read the following if you don't like naughty words..
    Actually I'll edit the offending word....



    'One Nation' sounds suspiciously like 'Big Society'.

    Why is there no mocking and ridicule from the usual suspects on this website?
    One Nation? Except for Northern Ireland it seems!

    Even UKIP has councillors there!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Socrates said:


    No my argument rests on the comparison between Asia which has made staggering progress in lifting itself out of poverty and Africa which has stagnated in the post colonial period. Africa's history since the 1960s has been one of missed opportunity and however the West has tried to engage with the continent it has not been adequate or efficient. If you look at the original post i stated that a glimpse of progress has only started in thge last decade. That's got more to do with countries slowly getting their acts and intitutions together rather than aid budgets.

    That uptick is highly correlated with international aid being focused on development. Before then it was mainly about giving them money no questions asked to keep them in the communist or capitalist bloc. So the 1950s-1980s comparison makes very little sense, while the 1990s-2000s period where international aid was put into practice has seen huge returns.

    Much of the international aid has focused on institution-building and civic society creation directly. A great deal more has gone into improving access to education, often by addressing health problems that stop children attending schools, which also increases participatory democracy. This stuff isn't all a coincidence.
    Whereas I'd say it is. Aid budgets aren't causing some African coutries to have growth rates of 6-7%. Trade and a change in insitutions are.
    Is it true that our contribution to the EU easily dwarfs the overseas aid budget?
    I thought our EU budget was overseas aid. French farms don't just subsidise themselves you know ;-)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited May 2014

    GIN1138 said:

    The Lib-Dem implosion (and UKIP's rise) has certainly been good business. PB's global Alexa ranking has gone under 200,000 for the first time in recent day's.

    If Mike can get into the top 100,000 he'll have the Ad Networks coming to HIM.

    Congrats Mike, Robert and TSE. Has been a fun few weeks. :D

    Fun? Every time Mike goes on holiday something major happens.

    Someone said to me last night, a piece by me could force Nick out if people thought it was by Mike.

    Last time it was Syria.

    Just you watch, Mike's going to get an expenses paid holiday by Yes Scotland to coincide with the Indyref
    You've done a great job in Mike's absense.

    The mood on the website has become a lot more fun and relaxed in recent months as well. Much less nastiness.



  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    According to Guido, the tories are so unconcerned by the rise of UKIP they held a crisis summit at Chequers today.

    Oh to have been a fly on the wall....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    "One nation" is truly hitting home... don't read the following if you don't like naughty words..
    Actually I'll edit the offending word....



    'One Nation' sounds suspiciously like 'Big Society'.

    Why is there no mocking and ridicule from the usual suspects on this website?
    One Nation? Except for Northern Ireland it seems!

    Even UKIP has councillors there!
    Labour have a No Irish policy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    BTW fantastic work collating all the local data, AndyJS!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2014
    Wards in London where the LDs got most votes in local elections:

    Barking & Dagenham: 0
    Barnet: 0
    Bexley: 0
    Brent: 0
    Bromley: 0
    Camden: 1 — Fortune Green
    Croydon: 0
    Ealing: 1 — Southfield
    Enfield: 0
    Greenwich: 0
    Hackney: 1 — Cazenove
    Hammersmith & Fulham: 0
    Haringey: 3 — Fortis Green, Highgate, Muswell Hill
    Harrow: 0
    Havering: 0
    Hillingdon: 0
    Hounslow: 0
    Islington: 0
    Kensington & Chelsea: 0
    Kingston upon Thames: 7 — Berrylands, Chessington North, Chessington South, Grove, St Mark's, Surbiton Hill, Tolworth
    Lambeth: 0
    Lewisham: 0
    Merton: 0
    Newham: 0
    Redbridge: 2 — Church End, Roding
    Richmond upon Thames: 7 — Fulwell, Ham, Hampton, Heathfield, St Margarets, Teddington, West Twickenham
    Southwark: 4 — Cathedrals, East Dulwich, Riverside, Surrey Docks
    Sutton: 16 — Beddington North, Beddington South, Carshalton Central, Cheam, Nonsuch, St Helier, Stonecot, Sutton Central, Sutton North, Sutton South, Sutton West, The Wrythe, Wallington North, Wallington South, Wandle Valley, Worcester Park
    Tower Hamlets: 0
    Waltham Forest: 0
    Wandsworth: 0
    Westminster: 0

    Total: 42 out of 629.

    38% were in Sutton.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    Socrates said:


    No my argument rests on the comparison between Asia which has made staggering progress in lifting itself out of poverty and Africa which has stagnated in the post colonial period. Africa's history since the 1960s has been one of missed opportunity and however the West has tried to engage with the continent it has not been adequate or efficient. If you look at the original post i stated that a glimpse of progress has only started in thge last decade. That's got more to do with countries slowly getting their acts and intitutions together rather than aid budgets.

    That uptick is highly correlated with international aid being focused on development. Before then it was mainly about giving them money no questions asked to keep them in the communist or capitalist bloc. So the 1950s-1980s comparison makes very little sense, while the 1990s-2000s period where international aid was put into practice has seen huge returns.

    Much of the international aid has focused on institution-building and civic society creation directly. A great deal more has gone into improving access to education, often by addressing health problems that stop children attending schools, which also increases participatory democracy. This stuff isn't all a coincidence.
    Whereas I'd say it is. Aid budgets aren't causing some African coutries to have growth rates of 6-7%. Trade and a change in insitutions are.
    Is it true that our contribution to the EU easily dwarfs the overseas aid budget?
    I thought our EU budget was overseas aid. French farms don't just subsidise themselves you know ;-)
    OK, "non-EU overseas aid", then!
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    s it true that our contribution to the EU easily dwarfs the overseas aid budget?

    Does it matter? we're paying once to protect Europe and and f8ck Africa's economy, and then again to try to alleviate the suffering our money caused in the first place.

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited May 2014
    jayfdee said:

    ZenPagan said:

    MrJones said:

    Incredible really that the Tories fared so badly in the locals after holding down Council Tax so effectively for 4 years, after Brown & Co. had let it rip for year after year.
    People do indeed have very short memories ..... oh well only one more year to go before this huge burden on the household budget resumes its upward trajectory with more untold and uncontrolled waste.

    Owner occupiers pay council tax, owner-occupiers vote.

    Landlords pay council tax, tenants vote.
    I don't know who you have been talking to but as a renter for years and knowing lots of other renters I can assure you as far as the council are concerned the one living in the house is the one responsible for paying council tax not the one owning it.

    I have never yet not had to pay council tax as a renter and the landlord pays nothing

    Yep,as a Landlord,this is standard in tenancy agreements,or it is in mine.

    People on benefits didn't have to pay council tax until last year. Now they pay a proportion, varies from council to council, but around 25%. Still a significant proportion of their tiny incomes. A very regressive move by this government.
  • There's a great post on how Ukip could win the general election next year.

    It's called, "Workers Of The World Ukip" at:

    http://john-moloney.blogspot.com/2014/05/workers-of-world-ukip.html
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420

    Bloody Muslims, causing religious problems in Northern Ireland

    Northern Ireland's first minister, Peter Robinson, has come under intense scrutiny for defending a pastor who described Islam as "satanic" and "heathen"

    Pastor James McConnell, an evangelical Protestant preacher, delivered an incendiary sermon earlier this month where he claimed "Islam is a doctrine spawned in hell" and compared Muslims to the IRA.

    Asked about the sermon, Mr Robinson, who has attended the same church in the past, insisted the pastor does not have "an ounce of hatred in his bones" and claimed it is the "duty of any Christian preacher to denounce a false doctrine".

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/northern-irelands-peter-robinson-caught-in-religious-row-after-defending-preachers-evil-islam-sermon-9448523.html

    Only Satan - the 'Fallen-Angel' - requested to Christ's Father that He should save His Son from Crucifixion. Only one religion now screams that Satan's wish was fulfilled....
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    Smarmeron said:

    @ZenPagan

    Nice edit, do you work for the Daily Fail or the Torygraph?

    Sorry I just couldn't resist the temptation when provided such a juicy partial quote. I am sure no one took it as a serious utterance of yours

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937


    It's a pretty average performance. An ordinary Chancellor in extraordinary times. He has ducked structural reform and left it all for his successor to do.

    Osborne's successor as CotE may well not even be in Parliament....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited May 2014
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I agree that opening up the EU to African exports would be a very positive contribution to African development, as would CAP reform.

    Economic development in Africa benefits us economically by creating an African Middle class hungry for our exports, but also socially. Economic development there keeps more people happily engaged in their own economies rather than desperate to get to ours. It is quite noticeable that it is in large part Christian Africa that is developing while Islamic Africa stagnates or fails. Boko Haram is only the tip of the iceberg. The Islamists have a lot of cognitive dissonance behind their anger because it is hard to see Islam as the perfect state when Christianity is associated with education, development and prosperity.
    taffys said:

    s it true that our contribution to the EU easily dwarfs the overseas aid budget?

    Does it matter? we're paying once to protect Europe and and f8ck Africa's economy, and then again to try to alleviate the suffering our money caused in the first place.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    AndyJS said:

    Wards in London where the LDs got most votes in local elections:

    Barking & Dagenham: 0
    Barnet: 0
    Bexley: 0
    Brent: 0
    Bromley: 0
    Camden: 1 — Fortune Green
    Croydon: 0
    Ealing: 1 — Southfield
    Enfield: 0
    Greenwich: 0
    Hackney: 1 — Cazenove
    Hammersmith & Fulham: 0
    Haringey: 3 — Fortis Green, Highgate, Muswell Hill
    Harrow: 0
    Havering: 0
    Hillingdon: 0
    Hounslow: 0
    Islington: 0
    Kensington & Chelsea: 0
    Kingston upon Thames: 7 — Berrylands, Chessington North, Chessington South, Grove, St Mark's, Surbiton Hill, Tolworth
    Lambeth: 0
    Lewisham: 0
    Merton: 0
    Newham: 0
    Redbridge: 2 — Church End, Roding
    Richmond upon Thames: 7 — Fulwell, Ham, Hampton, Heathfield, St Margarets, Teddington, West Twickenham
    Southwark: 4 — Cathedrals, East Dulwich, Riverside, Surrey Docks
    Sutton: 16 — Beddington North, Beddington South, Carshalton Central, Cheam, Nonsuch, St Helier, Stonecot, Sutton Central, Sutton North, Sutton South, Sutton West, The Wrythe, Wallington North, Wallington South, Wandle Valley, Worcester Park
    Tower Hamlets: 0
    Waltham Forest: 0
    Wandsworth: 0
    Westminster: 0

    Total: 42 out of 629.

    38% were in Sutton.

    Surbiton Hill is my ward. But this time the LDs had to win without my help !

    They lost 13% of their votes in Kingston. The Surbiton part is Ed Davey's seat.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    AndyJS, exceptional work. Thank you for sharing it - but this collated data should be paid for though by any professionals half-inching it! I trust that any that do will at least make a donation to the site....
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    RodCrosby said:

    jayfdee said:

    ZenPagan said:

    MrJones said:

    Incredible really that the Tories fared so badly in the locals after holding down Council Tax so effectively for 4 years, after Brown & Co. had let it rip for year after year.
    People do indeed have very short memories ..... oh well only one more year to go before this huge burden on the household budget resumes its upward trajectory with more untold and uncontrolled waste.

    Owner occupiers pay council tax, owner-occupiers vote.

    Landlords pay council tax, tenants vote.
    I don't know who you have been talking to but as a renter for years and knowing lots of other renters I can assure you as far as the council are concerned the one living in the house is the one responsible for paying council tax not the one owning it.

    I have never yet not had to pay council tax as a renter and the landlord pays nothing

    Yep,as a Landlord,this is standard in tenancy agreements,or it is in mine.

    People on benefits didn't have to pay council tax until last year. Now they pay a proportion, varies from council to council, but around 25%. Still a significant proportion of their tiny incomes. A very regressive move by this government.
    While it is indeed true that people on benefits didnt have to pay they were still responsible and not the landlord. The landlord still payed nothing and they had to stump up if their circumstances changed. The fact they were given a bye on actually shovelling money over is neither here nor there

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    John Swinney refuses THIRTEEN times to reveal start-up costs of an independent Scotland

    He should have taken the HMT estimate and divided it by 13. It might have gotten him close.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Ch4 saying four of the Nigerian girls have escaped
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Socrates said:


    No my argument rests on the comparison between Asia which has made staggering progress in lifting itself out of poverty and Africa which has stagnated in the post colonial period. Africa's history since the 1960s has been one of missed opportunity and however the West has tried to engage with the continent it has not been adequate or efficient. If you look at the original post i stated that a glimpse of progress has only started in thge last decade. That's got more to do with countries slowly getting their acts and intitutions together rather than aid budgets.

    That uptick is highly correlated with international aid being focused on development. Before then it was mainly about giving them money no questions asked to keep them in the communist or capitalist bloc. So the 1950s-1980s comparison makes very little sense, while the 1990s-2000s period where international aid was put into practice has seen huge returns.

    Much of the international aid has focused on institution-building and civic society creation directly. A great deal more has gone into improving access to education, often by addressing health problems that stop children attending schools, which also increases participatory democracy. This stuff isn't all a coincidence.
    Whereas I'd say it is. Aid budgets aren't causing some African coutries to have growth rates of 6-7%. Trade and a change in insitutions are.
    Is it true that our contribution to the EU easily dwarfs the overseas aid budget?
    The other day you posted that the UK's _net_ contribution to the EU is greater than the overseas aid budget, which isn't true, IIUC. The gross contribution is a bit closer - if I'm googling it right it seems to be something like 9bn, which is about the same as the number given here:
    http://www.ukan.org.uk/aid-quantity/uk-aid-breakdown/
    ...although some of that may actually be aid given via the EU, in which case the same money is showing up in both numbers.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2014

    AndyJS, exceptional work. Thank you for sharing it - but this collated data should be paid for though by any professionals half-inching it! I trust that any that do will at least make a donation to the site....

    I mentioned to an older member of my family the other day that I was doing this election results project, and of course their first question was how much I was being paid for doing it. They were a bit taken aback when I said I was doing it for free, just as a hobby.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''The Islamists have a lot of cognitive dissonance behind their anger because it is hard to see Islam as the perfect state when Christianity is associated with education, development and prosperity. ''

    I don;t know if its me but in the last six months critics of islamism appear have grown bolder. And the criticisms have spilled over from islamism into islam.

  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466
    Would like to add my thanks to AndyJS for his sterling work in collating all that election data.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    HuffPostUKPolitics ‏@HuffPostUKPol 4m

    BREAKING: Newly-elected Ukip councillor Dave Small sacked by party over 'poofs' tweets - http://huff.to/1mrAxsK pic.twitter.com/THIYfiLH2q
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    I see that the BBC are showing a programme on Captain Eric Brown this Sunday.

    "Britain’s Greatest Pilot: The Extraordinary Story of Captain Winkle Brown. The infamous RAF pilot recounts his experiences up to and during the Second World War."

    He was a talented pilot, but not for Crab Air.Shoot that caption writer.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    This bit is pithy: "The document, held together by a paper clip, argued this figure could be achieved if Scotland could achieve higher economic growth, greater productivity and attract more immigrants"

    And later this : "According to the Scottish Government report, an increase of 0.3 percentage points in the long run productivity growth rate could raise an additional £2.4 billion a year in revenues by 2029/30.

    Meanwhile, upping the employment rate in Scotland by 3.3 percentage points – taking it to the level of the five best-performing countries in the developed world – could provide additional revenues of £1.3 billion a year, the paper said.

    A rise in the population, which is less than the UK as a whole is expected to see, could net a further £1.5 billion a year by 2029/30. This would lead to Scotland being £5 billion better off over 15 years, it said, the equivalent of £1,000 per person"

    So Salmonds view is that Scots (or perhaps the McConstantinescus) will work harder and more productively than present to pay the taxes that keep him in trews. Its a view...

  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    authoring said:

    @Alanbrooke - It is absolutely horrific. There are hundreds dying and if they make it over their lives are pretty miserable by our standards. The African blokes who pound the streets and beaches of the Med cities selling knock-off tat and constantly looking over their shoulders for the police must live on only a pittance. Yet it is still so much better than what they have left behind.

    The question is how long it will go on for ? One of the few bright sparks of the last decade is han extra-continental. But a long way to go unfortunately.
    And, despite that many here oppose Overseas Aid. Usually, they are the same people. A small investment there has a much larger multiplier effect than here and may stave off another few hundred more emigrants.
    I oppose the mindless overseas aid our government claims is effective.

    It's trade that's lifting Africa out of poverty and the Chinese are providing the trade.
    Not true at all. Look at Zambia, where poverty has actually increased, despite a very close tswana have done well and Zambia has not.
    Sure institutions are part of it. That's why we've thrown billions at Africa for decades and the ial guilt crap and ask people to work and work brings dignity with it.
    "That's why we've thrown billions at Africa for decades and the only beneficiaries have been Mercedes dealers"

    Your argument rests on this claim. What evidence do you have for it? I can show you tens of millions lifted out of poverty over the last decade, surging literacy rates and diseases almost eliminated. It would be great to see your facts though.
    No my argument rests on the comparison between Asia which has made staggering progress in lifting itself out of poverty and Africa which has stagnated in the post colonial period. Africa's history since the 1960s has been one of missed opportunity and however the West has tried to engage with the continent it has not been adequate or efficient. If you look at the original post i stated that a glimpse of progress has only started in thge last decade. That's got more to do with countries slowly getting their acts and intitutions together rather than aid budgets.
    IQ.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wards in London where the LDs got most votes in local elections:

    Barking & Dagenham: 0
    Barnet: 0
    Bexley: 0
    Brent: 0
    Bromley: 0
    Camden: 1 — Fortune Green
    Croydon: 0
    Ealing: 1 — Southfield
    Enfield: 0
    Greenwich: 0
    Hackney: 1 — Cazenove
    Hammersmith & Fulham: 0
    Haringey: 3 — Fortis Green, Highgate, Muswell Hill
    Harrow: 0
    Havering: 0
    Hillingdon: 0
    Hounslow: 0
    Islington: 0
    Kensington & Chelsea: 0
    Kingston upon Thames: 7 — Berrylands, Chessington North, Chessington South, Grove, St Mark's, Surbiton Hill, Tolworth
    Lambeth: 0
    Lewisham: 0
    Merton: 0
    Newham: 0
    Redbridge: 2 — Church End, Roding
    Richmond upon Thames: 7 — Fulwell, Ham, Hampton, Heathfield, St Margarets, Teddington, West Twickenham
    Southwark: 4 — Cathedrals, East Dulwich, Riverside, Surrey Docks
    Sutton: 16 — Beddington North, Beddington South, Carshalton Central, Cheam, Nonsuch, St Helier, Stonecot, Sutton Central, Sutton North, Sutton South, Sutton West, The Wrythe, Wallington North, Wallington South, Wandle Valley, Worcester Park
    Tower Hamlets: 0
    Waltham Forest: 0
    Wandsworth: 0
    Westminster: 0

    Total: 42 out of 629.

    38% were in Sutton.

    Surbiton Hill is my ward. But this time the LDs had to win without my help !

    They lost 13% of their votes in Kingston. The Surbiton part is Ed Davey's seat.
    If Clegg's brand of Lib Demmism can't work in London, where will it work? They have a long existing problem with EM voters, but London is fairly Tory/Ukip sceptic and with a high number of middle class professionals on good salaries.

    In short this really is Clegg's key problem. He's sacrificed one voting demographic without being able to replace it with another.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    taffys said:

    ''The Islamists have a lot of cognitive dissonance behind their anger because it is hard to see Islam as the perfect state when Christianity is associated with education, development and prosperity. ''

    I don;t know if its me but in the last six months critics of islamism appear have grown bolder. And the criticisms have spilled over from islamism into islam.

    I don't know why - perhaps it is murder of a soldier in London, kidnapping of Christian schoolchildren in Nigeria, Killing of pegnant woman by 26 relatives in Bangladesh, death sentence of a woman once they've had their child, FGM, paedophile sex groomings in northern towns, beheadings and murder of Christians in Syria.

    Or maybe something else.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    isam said:
    Ha, that will really stop them winning more seats next time!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think you are being a little over the top. Most Islamist related deaths are of fellow muslims, and virtually all mosque bombings and massacres. There is a Sunni/Shia divide in the middle East wars but also a secularist vs Islamist split.

    weejonnie said:

    taffys said:

    ''The Islamists have a lot of cognitive dissonance behind their anger because it is hard to see Islam as the perfect state when Christianity is associated with education, development and prosperity. ''

    I don;t know if its me but in the last six months critics of islamism appear have grown bolder. And the criticisms have spilled over from islamism into islam.

    I don't know why - perhaps it is murder of a soldier in London, kidnapping of Christian schoolchildren in Nigeria, Killing of pegnant woman by 26 relatives in Bangladesh, death sentence of a woman once they've had their child, FGM, paedophile sex groomings in northern towns, beheadings and murder of Christians in Syria.

    Or maybe something else.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2014
    weejonnie said:

    taffys said:

    ''The Islamists have a lot of cognitive dissonance behind their anger because it is hard to see Islam as the perfect state when Christianity is associated with education, development and prosperity. ''

    I don;t know if its me but in the last six months critics of islamism appear have grown bolder. And the criticisms have spilled over from islamism into islam.

    I don't know why - perhaps it is murder of a soldier in London, kidnapping of Christian schoolchildren in Nigeria, Killing of pegnant woman by 26 relatives in Bangladesh, death sentence of a woman once they've had their child, FGM, paedophile sex groomings in northern towns, beheadings and murder of Christians in Syria.

    Or maybe something else.

    HOW DARE YOU!

    There is nothing that connects those atrocities, and if there is then we'll have to find examples of other religions doing similar things without acknowledging any bad deed carried out by muslims
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    HA HA HA - GOAL OF THE F-ING CENTRURY BY SCOTLAND
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2014
    Chelmsley Wood in Solihull borough is an interesting ward: often it's a contest between UKIP and the Greens. This year the Greens won 1,334 votes to UKIP's 556, with Labour on 511 and the Tories on 142.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good evening, everyone.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I think you are being a little over the top. Most Islamist related deaths are of fellow muslims, and virtually all mosque bombings and massacres. There is a Sunni/Shia divide in the middle East wars but also a secularist vs Islamist split.



    weejonnie said:

    taffys said:

    ''The Islamists have a lot of cognitive dissonance behind their anger because it is hard to see Islam as the perfect state when Christianity is associated with education, development and prosperity. ''

    I don;t know if its me but in the last six months critics of islamism appear have grown bolder. And the criticisms have spilled over from islamism into islam.

    I don't know why - perhaps it is murder of a soldier in London, kidnapping of Christian schoolchildren in Nigeria, Killing of pegnant woman by 26 relatives in Bangladesh, death sentence of a woman once they've had their child, FGM, paedophile sex groomings in northern towns, beheadings and murder of Christians in Syria.

    Or maybe something else.
    Oh that makes it ok then
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    weejonnie said:

    taffys said:

    ''The Islamists have a lot of cognitive dissonance behind their anger because it is hard to see Islam as the perfect state when Christianity is associated with education, development and prosperity. ''

    I don;t know if its me but in the last six months critics of islamism appear have grown bolder. And the criticisms have spilled over from islamism into islam.

    I don't know why - perhaps it is murder of a soldier in London, kidnapping of Christian schoolchildren in Nigeria, Killing of pegnant woman by 26 relatives in Bangladesh, death sentence of a woman once they've had their child, FGM, paedophile sex groomings in northern towns, beheadings and murder of Christians in Syria.

    Or maybe something else.
    Bigots dont really need excuses.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    isam said:

    weejonnie said:

    taffys said:

    ''The Islamists have a lot of cognitive dissonance behind their anger because it is hard to see Islam as the perfect state when Christianity is associated with education, development and prosperity. ''

    I don;t know if its me but in the last six months critics of islamism appear have grown bolder. And the criticisms have spilled over from islamism into islam.

    I don't know why - perhaps it is murder of a soldier in London, kidnapping of Christian schoolchildren in Nigeria, Killing of pegnant woman by 26 relatives in Bangladesh, death sentence of a woman once they've had their child, FGM, paedophile sex groomings in northern towns, beheadings and murder of Christians in Syria.

    Or maybe something else.

    HOW DARE YOU!

    There is nothing that connects those atrocities, and if there is then we'll have to find examples of other religions doing similar things without acknowledging any bad deed carried out by muslims
    Weren't you bleating about sarcasm a couple of hours ago?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2014

    isam said:

    weejonnie said:

    taffys said:

    ''The Islamists have a lot of cognitive dissonance behind their anger because it is hard to see Islam as the perfect state when Christianity is associated with education, development and prosperity. ''

    I don;t know if its me but in the last six months critics of islamism appear have grown bolder. And the criticisms have spilled over from islamism into islam.

    I don't know why - perhaps it is murder of a soldier in London, kidnapping of Christian schoolchildren in Nigeria, Killing of pegnant woman by 26 relatives in Bangladesh, death sentence of a woman once they've had their child, FGM, paedophile sex groomings in northern towns, beheadings and murder of Christians in Syria.

    Or maybe something else.

    HOW DARE YOU!

    There is nothing that connects those atrocities, and if there is then we'll have to find examples of other religions doing similar things without acknowledging any bad deed carried out by muslims
    Weren't you bleating about sarcasm a couple of hours ago?

    True.

    I regret writing that last post now you have mentioned it!

    My bad
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Where did I say it was OK?

    The people most oppressed by the Islamists are the Christian minorities but followed closely by the democratic and secular muslims.

    Take these fun loving Iranian youngsters:

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27505407
    isam said:

    I think you are being a little over the top. Most Islamist related deaths are of fellow muslims, and virtually all mosque bombings and massacres. There is a Sunni/Shia divide in the middle East wars but also a secularist vs Islamist split.



    weejonnie said:

    taffys said:

    ''The Islamists have a lot of cognitive dissonance behind their anger because it is hard to see Islam as the perfect state when Christianity is associated with education, development and prosperity. ''

    I don;t know if its me but in the last six months critics of islamism appear have grown bolder. And the criticisms have spilled over from islamism into islam.

    I don't know why - perhaps it is murder of a soldier in London, kidnapping of Christian schoolchildren in Nigeria, Killing of pegnant woman by 26 relatives in Bangladesh, death sentence of a woman once they've had their child, FGM, paedophile sex groomings in northern towns, beheadings and murder of Christians in Syria.

    Or maybe something else.
    Oh that makes it ok then
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Ch4 News said an economist had described it as a 'Get out of Jail Free' analysis.......and while both sets of stats were disputed, the NIESR and IFS reckoned the Better Together camp's were closer to reality.....
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    HuffPostUKPolitics ‏@HuffPostUKPol 4m

    BREAKING: Newly-elected Ukip councillor Dave Small sacked by party over 'poofs' tweets - http://huff.to/1mrAxsK pic.twitter.com/THIYfiLH2q

    Well done ukip.

  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Eckonomical with the truth.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    AndyJS said:

    Chelmsley Wood in Solihull borough is an interesting ward: often it's a contest between UKIP and the Greens. This year the Greens won 1,334 votes to UKIP's 556, with Labour on 511 and the Tories on 142.

    Anti-immigrants to the green belt ?

    They must think a bit like me, I considered both Kipper and Green :D
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    New Thread
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Where did I say it was OK?

    The people most oppressed by the Islamists are the Christian minorities but followed closely by the democratic and secular muslims.

    Take these fun loving Iranian youngsters:

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27505407

    isam said:

    I think you are being a little over the top. Most Islamist related deaths are of fellow muslims, and virtually all mosque bombings and massacres. There is a Sunni/Shia divide in the middle East wars but also a secularist vs Islamist split.



    weejonnie said:

    taffys said:

    ''The Islamists have a lot of cognitive dissonance behind their anger because it is hard to see Islam as the perfect state when Christianity is associated with education, development and prosperity. ''

    I don;t know if its me but in the last six months critics of islamism appear have grown bolder. And the criticisms have spilled over from islamism into islam.

    I don't know why - perhaps it is murder of a soldier in London, kidnapping of Christian schoolchildren in Nigeria, Killing of pegnant woman by 26 relatives in Bangladesh, death sentence of a woman once they've had their child, FGM, paedophile sex groomings in northern towns, beheadings and murder of Christians in Syria.

    Or maybe something else.
    Oh that makes it ok then
    To be fair, the amount of muslim blood Blair and Bush have on their hands its no wonder that a sizable minority hate us

  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,709

    Ch4 News said an economist had described it as a 'Get out of Jail Free' analysis.......and while both sets of stats were disputed, the NIESR and IFS reckoned the Better Together camp's were closer to reality.....
    'The document, held together by a paper clip...'

    We've all been there - rush to staple some pages together and the thing's empty, so use an old paper clip from the draw instead.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,890
    malcolmg said:

    Afternoon all, can someone please give me a link to this LibDem poll everyone has been talking about for 2 days.

    Incidentally I wouldn't bet on Danny Alexander losing his seat regardless of what any poll might say. He is incredibly popular locally and very high profile/hard working. There is growing resentment at the SNP foisting average speed cameras on the A9 travelling public when the overwhelming view of the local population is we don't want them. Danny is leading the fight.

    Easterross, He could not lead a conga, deserves to be toast , and has more faces than the town clock.
    As far as I can tell, Inverness Town Hall hasn't got a clock.

    So that would be one face, then !!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    Afternoon all, can someone please give me a link to this LibDem poll everyone has been talking about for 2 days.

    Incidentally I wouldn't bet on Danny Alexander losing his seat regardless of what any poll might say. He is incredibly popular locally and very high profile/hard working. There is growing resentment at the SNP foisting average speed cameras on the A9 travelling public when the overwhelming view of the local population is we don't want them. Danny is leading the fight.

    Easterross, He could not lead a conga, deserves to be toast , and has more faces than the town clock.
    As far as I can tell, Inverness Town Hall hasn't got a clock.

    So that would be one face, then !!
    On a point of pedantry -

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Inverness_clock_tower.JPG

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    News from Newark:

    Me Ah you're in Newark ?

    Any signs of a UKIP surge there ?
    19 mins · Like
    F-book friend Not at all, its true blue round here, also there is genuine good feeling toward Patrick Mercer, who despite the rest was a good local mp, which I think will attach itself to the new ruddy faced twat that's been parachuted in (apologies for the language but I am so sick of his face on the flyers on my doormat)
    14 mins · Like
    F-book friend With the collapse of the lib dems if you look at the percentages Labour could take it, if they put any effort in.
    13 mins · Like
    Me Ah good, I've backed the Tories there.
    11 mins · Like · 1
    F-book friend if Labour put in an effort to convince people that the last Tory was actually a bit of a shit and the new ones not even local, they could get people out and it might get interesting, as it is I predict a very low turnout as its getting no national coverage and a simply Tory romp on a diminished but still satisfying majority, loosing some votes to confused ukip voters, the question I'd ask is whose leg has the Tory candidate humped to get this cherry.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,890
    ZenPagan said:

    MrJones said:

    Incredible really that the Tories fared so badly in the locals after holding down Council Tax so effectively for 4 years, after Brown & Co. had let it rip for year after year.
    People do indeed have very short memories ..... oh well only one more year to go before this huge burden on the household budget resumes its upward trajectory with more untold and uncontrolled waste.

    Owner occupiers pay council tax, owner-occupiers vote.

    Landlords pay council tax, tenants vote.
    I don't know who you have been talking to but as a renter for years and knowing lots of other renters I can assure you as far as the council are concerned the one living in the house is the one responsible for paying council tax not the one owning it.

    I have never yet not had to pay council tax as a renter and the landlord pays nothing

    HuffPostUKPolitics ‏@HuffPostUKPol 4m

    BREAKING: Newly-elected Ukip councillor Dave Small sacked by party over 'poofs' tweets - http://huff.to/1mrAxsK pic.twitter.com/THIYfiLH2q

    Well done ukip.

    Ouch.

    UKIP had better learn some realpolitik from Old Holborn, Labour, Tories and all those vitriolic anti-UKIP BBC employees, and vanish former Twitter posts into the memory hole. Do it right and you get to keep the followers.
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