Erm I'm afraid I have limited sympathy. There's a little trick that could have avoided all that confusion, it's called reading. It's even easier with a postal vote when you can take a bit more time to do it slowly.
And I have limited sympathy with your limited sympathy. The stupid, over-hasty and semi-literate all have the right to vote - that is what democracy means - and to say that it is fair to dupe them because they are easily duped is nonsense.
Of course they have the right to vote but failing to differentiate between parties because you are lazy or over-hasty is tough, the semi-literate even have help with pretty pictures.
It's too early to say who the next LibDem leader will be, we need to know who will remain a LibDem MP after the next election first, anyone on that top 8 list could lose his seat perhaps all of them (even Clegg was only 2 points ahead of LAB in his own seat in a very old constituency poll). Don't forget Portillo, he was the favourite until he lost his own seat.
Several posters on this thread appear not to have noticed that the market that our host has linked to is a market on the Lib Dem leader at the next election. So the runners and riders currently in Parliament will not necessarily be ruled out because their electoral prospects in 2015 are uncertain.
This clearly holds back the economy if you restricted in ability move goods and people.
As places such as Milton Keynes grows and the demand from places grows then problem worsens.
The track capacity issue is primarily caused by the mixing of freight, commuter and intercity with different acceleration and top speed characteristics, desperate away the intercity services from the WCML to HS2 and create a load of new capacity on the old network for commuter services and freight to more efficiently use the line and move the intercity into new tracks, as happens in much of the rest of the planet.
Oh, the expected total cost for London Manchester and Leeds via Birmingham actually £28bn with £14bn of contingency lets not get carried away the exaggeration.
UKIPNorthCornwall @UKIPNCornwall May 6 India are spending £45 million to get to Mars. The UK are spending £60 billion to get to Birmingham. #HS2
The Indian Space programme's budget is $1.1bn a year and it has not yet put anyone in space (now scheduled for 2020 - delayed) let alone the moon or Mars. In terms of unmanned programmes after its first launch in 2009, the second launch is due for 2017 having been delayed by at least four years. It will be many years before India can put either an unmanned or manned craft on Mars and at the cost of many billions of pounds.
Not to mention that HS2 will get lots of people to Birmingham & back, not just a capsule of 3.
Surely by definition, all those who 'need' to get to Birminham can currently do so. What will HS2 do other than presumably shorten the journey time?
Increase capacity, which will run out otherwise.
Seems an amazingly expensive way of 'increasing capacity'. What about road widening? Double decker rail cars such as used in commuter trains in many places here? Starting an air shuttle between London airports and Birmingham?
How much untapped demand is there?
Crikey, Mr B, you aren't allowed to ask that question! Lots more people use the railways now than in the past, therefore even lots more people will want to use them in the future. That is all you need to know. Oh, and lots and lots of people will be prepared to pay a premium price to get to, or more like from, Birmingham a bit quicker.
Got that? Well you now have the business case for HS2.
Oh dear - have I transgressed the unwritten rule again? sorry :-)
Lots of good things have come out of Birmingham, once home to the mighty ATV. The Muppet Show was made in London, but who can forget the mighty Bennie from Crossroads?
On second thought, why would anyone want to get to Brum any faster?
No need to apologise, Mr. B. Your distance just gives you a different perspective from us poor mortals that have to live here and pay for such nonsense.
On a side note, how is Heidi's predictive abilities these days? She must be getting to be an old lady these days but any chance you could let her have a run over the cards for the Euros?
I remember a post on a former blog by a police officer that said that the countryside is awash with criminals because there are not enough police officers and that the police don't have the right equipment to chase heavily armed criminal gangs in remote farmlands.
I remember a post on a former blog by a police officer that said that the countryside is awash with criminals because there are not enough police officers and that the police don't have the right equipment to chase heavily armed criminal gangs in remote farmlands.
Paddy just allowed me the princely sum of £1.63 at the surprisingly unaltered odds of 25/1. I can't say I fancy this bet much, but were Nick to fall under the proverbial then Danny Boy would certainly be a front runner, especially with his enhanced reputation after 4 years at the Treasury (for the same reason, Osborne's current odds to succeed Cameron are hugely overstated imho).
...
The point about Osborne's odds is well made. They'd have been right two years ago, not now. He's still not an ideal TV performer but he's likely to be in the picture whenever Cameron does go and should be in the second tier of candidates, after Boris.
Several posters on this thread appear not to have noticed that the market that our host has linked to is a market on the Lib Dem leader at the next election. So the runners and riders currently in Parliament will not necessarily be ruled out because their electoral prospects in 2015 are uncertain.
In that case it's Clegg, no one else in the LibDem party will want to own the disaster of the 2015GE, except if Clegg resigns because he doesn't either. At that point they will need to follow one of two routes, either go for someone stupid or brave enough for a kamikaze leader or try to mitigate the disaster with a heavyweight who will be blamed if he doesn't succeed. If I was a LD MP I would try the second route, if I was a heavyweight LD MP I would try the first route in that case they might select Danny Alexander as the hapless guy (though he might be even worse than Clegg and cost the LD even more seats)
Erm I'm afraid I have limited sympathy. There's a little trick that could have avoided all that confusion, it's called reading. It's even easier with a postal vote when you can take a bit more time to do it slowly.
And I have limited sympathy with your limited sympathy. The stupid, over-hasty and semi-literate all have the right to vote - that is what democracy means - and to say that it is fair to dupe them because they are easily duped is nonsense.
Of course they have the right to vote but failing to differentiate between parties because you are lazy or over-hasty is tough, the semi-literate even have help with pretty pictures.
Yes, but the people it is "tough" on are not only the lazy or over-hasty but the party which is losing votes through no fault of its own, and all of us as democrats because elections are failing to reflect the intentions of the electorate, and condoning this sort of silly and nasty jiggery-pokery makes more serious matters like postal vote fraud look a little bit more ok.
Oh, and it is very tough on the Electoral Commission because their failure to act highlights the already obvious fact that they are as fit for purpose as a filigree condom.
UKIPNorthCornwall @UKIPNCornwall May 6 India are spending £45 million to get to Mars. The UK are spending £60 billion to get to Birmingham. #HS2
Surely by definition, all those who 'need' to get to Birminham can currently do so. What will HS2 do other than presumably shorten the journey time?
Increase capacity, which will run out otherwise.
Seems an amazingly expensive way of 'increasing capacity'. What about road widening? Double decker rail cars such as used in commuter trains in many places here? Starting an air shuttle between London airports and Birmingham?
How much untapped demand is there?
Crikey, Mr B, you aren't allowed to ask that question! Lots more people use the railways now than in the past, therefore even lots more people will want to use them in the future. That is all you need to know. Oh, and lots and lots of people will be prepared to pay a premium price to get to, or more like from, Birmingham a bit quicker.
Got that? Well you now have the business case for HS2.
Oh dear - have I transgressed the unwritten rule again? sorry :-)
Lots of good things have come out of Birmingham, once home to the mighty ATV. The Muppet Show was made in London, but who can forget the mighty Bennie from Crossroads?
On second thought, why would anyone want to get to Brum any faster?
No need to apologise, Mr. B. Your distance just gives you a different perspective from us poor mortals that have to live here and pay for such nonsense.
On a side note, how is Heidi's predictive abilities these days? She must be getting to be an old lady these days but any chance you could let her have a run over the cards for the Euros?
I actually worked in Brum for a short while in the mid 70s. The place was a nightmare.
Heidi is by no means an old lady! She is not yet 7.
As you know in the past we have done several scientifically valid experiments to predict various contests. I did try to come up with a scenario where she could predict the euro elections, but for some reason every answer came out Angela Merkel. There was a pro-German bias I was unable to eliminate. Then, after perusing the problem day and night for several minutes, I realized what the cause was - she's a German Shepherd!
" the expected total cost for London Manchester and Leeds via Birmingham actually £28bn with £14bn of contingency lets not get carried away the exaggeration"
I wonder if any company or consortium could be found who would guarantee to build the line for a fixed price. If not why not?
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
Not likely, they only have 2 out of 4 words same and one of them is Party, even the initials are widely different and the logo, it will dupe no one who knows how to read or have eyesite. (The image of the voter in question might raise that prospect from his possible occupation)
I know La Palin is a joke but it is still staggering that she was on a Presidential ticket when she can tweet something as frightening as this,
@SarahPalinUSA: Innovation found only in the USA! You know, an AR-15 makes a great gift – what more says, “I love you”? Eh, you... http://t.co/FJWdC1seLF
" the expected total cost for London Manchester and Leeds via Birmingham actually £28bn with £14bn of contingency lets not get carried away the exaggeration"
I wonder if any company or consortium could be found who would guarantee to build the line for a fixed price. If not why not?
Because so much is out of the hands the constructors right now, many Chilterns want more tunnels to be paid for the contingency for example.
Get the thing approved and firmed up asap and the costs stay low.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
UKIP will have won a moral victory if UKIP +AIFE win combined. Obviously it will be annoying, but a hollow victory for whoever were to win by default... and long term will play into the anti establishmnet meme that has built up as the other parties and media attack
If its the Conservative I could swallow it thanks to nabbing the 25/1 on Monday
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops one to two points: CON 34%, LAB 36%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%
Is it my imagination or do the polls seem narrower at the start of weeks and widen being widest at the weekend?
Not your imagination.
The Sunday Times yougov generally has the largest Lab's of the week.
The fieldwork is conducted on Friday, I wonder what makes people so grumpy on a Friday.
Thought they'd got round this variation after the disaster which was 92 when I seem to recall the Tories were lower in the week and higher on the weekends. The final result was nearer the weekend scores. Maybe my memory is playing up but I thought pollsters had rejigged sampling in the light of this salutary lesson?
How big of a problem will that "Tories use secret club as front for donation" story be for the conservatives? Plus Telegraph has a get rich quick story "Official:How to make a million".
I actually worked in Brum for a short while in the mid 70s. The place was a nightmare.
Heidi is by no means an old lady! She is not yet 7.
As you know in the past we have done several scientifically valid experiments to predict various contests. I did try to come up with a scenario where she could predict the euro elections, but for some reason every answer came out Angela Merkel. There was a pro-German bias I was unable to eliminate. Then, after perusing the problem day and night for several minutes, I realized what the cause was - she's a German Shepherd!
Birmingham hasn't got any better.
I am surprised to hear he Heidi is so young. You must have started working her at a very early age. Pup labour, not good. As for he pro-German bias I suppose it is only to be expected. Do give her a bicce from me though.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
UKIP will have won a moral victory if UKIP +AIFE win combined. Obviously it will be annoying, but a hollow victory for whoever were to win by default... and long term will play into the anti establishmnet meme that has built up as the other parties and media attack
If its the Conservative I could swallow it thanks to nabbing the 25/1 on Monday
Actually it will be confirmation that KIPPERS are too stupid to read a ballot paper.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
UKIP will have won a moral victory if UKIP +AIFE win combined. Obviously it will be annoying, but a hollow victory for whoever were to win by default... and long term will play into the anti establishmnet meme that has built up as the other parties and media attack
If its the Conservative I could swallow it thanks to nabbing the 25/1 on Monday
Actually it will be confirmation that KIPPERS are too stupid to read a ballot paper.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
UKIP will have won a moral victory if UKIP +AIFE win combined. Obviously it will be annoying, but a hollow victory for whoever were to win by default... and long term will play into the anti establishmnet meme that has built up as the other parties and media attack
If its the Conservative I could swallow it thanks to nabbing the 25/1 on Monday
Actually it will be confirmation that KIPPERS are too stupid to read a ballot paper.
Possibly
My parents are both voting UKIP for the first time, as am I, and I am certain one of us will vote for the wrong party.. stupid old kippers
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
They can claim it all they like but they should either read the ballot properly or look at the pretty picture.
In my experience, when it comes to the Kippers, it is like dealing with the left hand side of the Bell curve
I think I read in The Week that 20% of Kippers have any post-school education, as against 50% of lib dems. That is probably less interesting than it sounds though in that it reflects a difference of age-group, with the younger lib dems having participated in the great and largely pointless university boom of the last 20 years.
Too many people in a rush when voting. Its your civic duty. Its what people fought and died for. It's a revolutionary act. Savour it. Read the sodding paper through before doing anything.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
They can claim it all they like but they should either read the ballot properly or look at the pretty picture.
In my experience, when it comes to the Kippers, it is like dealing with the left hand side of the Bell curve
I think I read in The Week that 20% of Kippers have any post-school education, as against 50% of lib dems. That is probably less interesting than it sounds though in that it reflects a difference of age-group, with the younger lib dems having participated in the great and largely pointless university boom of the last 20 years.
Very much agree with that. If you go back 30 years or so less than 10% of those leavings chool went on to University. Very different from today (although I would dispute that it makes those graduates today much more educated given the standards of many university courses these days.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
UKIP will have won a moral victory if UKIP +AIFE win combined. Obviously it will be annoying, but a hollow victory for whoever were to win by default... and long term will play into the anti establishmnet meme that has built up as the other parties and media attack
If its the Conservative I could swallow it thanks to nabbing the 25/1 on Monday
Actually it will be confirmation that KIPPERS are too stupid to read a ballot paper.
This.
If you think the stupid should be disenfranchised, let's do it explicitly. And please don't do that "This" thing, I am sure I am not the only person it annoys the shit out of.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
UKIP will have won a moral victory if UKIP +AIFE win combined. Obviously it will be annoying, but a hollow victory for whoever were to win by default... and long term will play into the anti establishmnet meme that has built up as the other parties and media attack
If its the Conservative I could swallow it thanks to nabbing the 25/1 on Monday
Actually it will be confirmation that KIPPERS are too stupid to read a ballot paper.
Possibly
My parents are both voting UKIP for the first time, as am I, and I am certain one of us will vote for the wrong party.. stupid old kippers
Exactly, stupid old kippers. If people are too stupid to read a ballot paper, what does that say about their understanding of the relevant issues.
The case for HS2 is simple, the tracks, not the seats, on the WCML are full.
>> Fair enough. Use double decker passenger cars - London to Brum is not far off commuting distance anyway. That will delay the cost of upgrade.
This clearly holds back the economy if you restricted in ability move goods and people.
>> Nothing is holding back the economy or movement of freight or people - they can drive or fly, and freight can go by truck. You're merely maintaining the rail capacity. Rail freight has to be loaded from trucks to begin with, and offloaded to trucks at the end anyway.
As places such as Milton Keynes grows and the demand from places grows then problem worsens.
>> No it doesn't. see above.
Oh, the expected total cost for London Manchester and Leeds via Birmingham actually £28bn with £14bn of contingency lets not get carried away the exaggeration.
Indeed let's not. The original cost estimate for the 2012 Olympics was something like 2.4 million pounds. Allowing a 50% contingency we get about 3.6 million. I honestly don't know what the final cost was but I'd guess about triple at least.
You are saying - in all seriousness - that spending at least 42 billion gbp and more likely at least 80 billion gbp on improving rail passenger and freight traffic between London and Birmingham is an investment that will make a profit? Are there better ways to spend the money -roads, air links etc?
As for the 50% contingency, that is simply unrealistic. If you don't know your costs within 50% then that is a HUGE red flag that your plan is nonsense- and I say that as a project manager of many years.
I actually worked in Brum for a short while in the mid 70s. The place was a nightmare.
Heidi is by no means an old lady! She is not yet 7.
As you know in the past we have done several scientifically valid experiments to predict various contests. I did try to come up with a scenario where she could predict the euro elections, but for some reason every answer came out Angela Merkel. There was a pro-German bias I was unable to eliminate. Then, after perusing the problem day and night for several minutes, I realized what the cause was - she's a German Shepherd!
Birmingham hasn't got any better.
I am surprised to hear he Heidi is so young. You must have started working her at a very early age. Pup labour, not good. As for he pro-German bias I suppose it is only to be expected. Do give her a bicce from me though.
She says Thanks for the bic - and she would be happy to show her appreciation by sniffing your crotch if you're in the neighborhood.
It might come in handy if I ever take her to see where my dad went to school!
We vote with an 'X' because we are assumed to be illiterate...
That's a rather naughty conflation.
We vote with an X because it's anonymous. If someone made an identifying mark, such as their signature, they'd render their vote invalid.
Is that true? My understanding is that any definite mark in a box is deemed to be a vote
Any mark is valid - e.g. a tick, a line, a smiley face - providing that the voter's preference for a particular candidate / party is clear, *except* that any mark that might identify the voter will cause it to be counted as a spoiled ballot.
Too many people in a rush when voting. Its your civic duty. Its what people fought and died for. It's a revolutionary act. Savour it. Read the sodding paper through before doing anything.
I did. I looked through all the parties and couldn't find one I would willingly vote for. So I held my nose and picked the one that has annoyed me least recently..
We vote with an 'X' because we are assumed to be illiterate...
That's a rather naughty conflation.
We vote with an X because it's anonymous. If someone made an identifying mark, such as their signature, they'd render their vote invalid.
Is that true? My understanding is that any definite mark in a box is deemed to be a vote
Quite right, Mr. Fett. A cross, a tick, a line, a smiley face or whatever in the box will get counted as a vote provided it is in one box and one box only.
P.S. I still haven't forgiven you for saying I maim and kill other people.
" the expected total cost for London Manchester and Leeds via Birmingham actually £28bn with £14bn of contingency lets not get carried away the exaggeration"
I wonder if any company or consortium could be found who would guarantee to build the line for a fixed price. If not why not?
Because that would mean giving up the chance of years of troughing at the taxpayers expense as 'unexpected' extra costs were discovered.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
UKIP will have won a moral victory if UKIP +AIFE win combined. Obviously it will be annoying, but a hollow victory for whoever were to win by default... and long term will play into the anti establishmnet meme that has built up as the other parties and media attack
If its the Conservative I could swallow it thanks to nabbing the 25/1 on Monday
Actually it will be confirmation that KIPPERS are too stupid to read a ballot paper.
Possibly
My parents are both voting UKIP for the first time, as am I, and I am certain one of us will vote for the wrong party.. stupid old kippers
Exactly, stupid old kippers. If people are too stupid to read a ballot paper, what does that say about their understanding of the relevant issues.
I think it would be quite an easy mistake to make, and wouldnt confuse that mistake with them being stupid at all. It would be a shame, especially as many people have very little interest in politics, arent nearly as concened as people on here, and may have been motivated to vote for UKIP having not voted for a long while.
But take hollow satisfaction out of it if you will, it is what it is. At least we will be almost certain that they didnt intend to vote Labour Conservative or Lib Dem..
" the expected total cost for London Manchester and Leeds via Birmingham actually £28bn with £14bn of contingency lets not get carried away the exaggeration"
I wonder if any company or consortium could be found who would guarantee to build the line for a fixed price. If not why not?
Because that would mean giving up the chance of years of troughing at the taxpayers expense as 'unexpected' extra costs were discovered.
In which case, Mr. Richard, the business case for the line is complete bollocks and the whole proposal should go in the bin.
Justine Greening @JustineGreening 45m Sentencing a woman to death for her religious beliefs is truly appalling. Sudan has a duty to protect the basic human rights of all women.
And is Sudan doesn't? Well then Justine Greening will, presumably, just keep giving them even more money borrowed from our children's future until they do jolly well behave.
Has Claire Perry had anything to say about it yet ?
She was ranting and raving in full imbecile mode about Austin Mitchell yesturday.
On a totally diferent subject, I was watching a documentary last night on Colditz, and how the prisoners survived year after year of captivity. More than one person proffered the opinion, which seemed to get general agreement, that one of the best psychological preparations for being held in captivity and surviving was an English Public School education, which most UK Colditz inmates had experienced.
As the beneficiary of same, I careful made sure all the doors were locked before going to bed.
"After ICM’s May Polling for The Guardian Found 3 million More UKIP voters Than in April – An Industry Methodology Rethink Is In Order.
I asked seasoned commentator Mike Smithson of Politicalbetting.com over Twitter if he still thought the unprompted Telephone polls such as Ipsos Mori (showing 3% UKIP national support just before in October 2012) had UKIP’s support level right.
Ben Page, Chief Executive of Ipsos Mori, the UK’s second largest market research firm – swiftly tweeted at me to indicate that he thought indeed they had, referencing the 2010 General Election result as evidence.
" the expected total cost for London Manchester and Leeds via Birmingham actually £28bn with £14bn of contingency lets not get carried away the exaggeration"
I wonder if any company or consortium could be found who would guarantee to build the line for a fixed price. If not why not?
Because that would mean giving up the chance of years of troughing at the taxpayers expense as 'unexpected' extra costs were discovered.
In which case, Mr. Richard, the business case for the line is complete bollocks and the whole proposal should go in the bin.
HS2 is a regrettable combination of a vanity project and a get-rich-and-then-get-even-richer scheme for vested interests.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
UKIP will have won a moral victory if UKIP +AIFE win combined. Obviously it will be annoying, but a hollow victory for whoever were to win by default... and long term will play into the anti establishmnet meme that has built up as the other parties and media attack
If its the Conservative I could swallow it thanks to nabbing the 25/1 on Monday
Actually it will be confirmation that KIPPERS are too stupid to read a ballot paper.
Possibly
My parents are both voting UKIP for the first time, as am I, and I am certain one of us will vote for the wrong party.. stupid old kippers
Exactly, stupid old kippers. If people are too stupid to read a ballot paper, what does that say about their understanding of the relevant issues.
I think it would be quite an easy mistake to make, and wouldnt confuse that mistake with them being stupid at all. It would be a shame, especially as many people have very little interest in politics, arent nearly as concened as people on here, and may have been motivated to vote for UKIP having not voted for a long while.
But take hollow satisfaction out of it if you will, it is what it is. At least we will be almost certain that they didnt intend to vote Labour Conservative or Lib Dem..
Seriously, you believe people who want to vote for the UKIP candidate are too thick to be able to read the ballot.? Incredible.
'I wonder if any company or consortium could be found who would guarantee to build the line for a fixed price.' The tenders for all the different sections of work will be at a fixed price. The 14 billion contingencies are over and above the normal engineering and building contingencies which cover changes in design once work has started and unexpected problems for instance in the ground and old fashioned changes of mind by the client. These 14 billion contingencies are mainly for political events which may cause delays disruption and changes.
"After ICM’s May Polling for The Guardian Found 3 million More UKIP voters Than in April – An Industry Methodology Rethink Is In Order.
I asked seasoned commentator Mike Smithson of Politicalbetting.com over Twitter if he still thought the unprompted Telephone polls such as Ipsos Mori (showing 3% UKIP national support just before in October 2012) had UKIP’s support level right.
Ben Page, Chief Executive of Ipsos Mori, the UK’s second largest market research firm – swiftly tweeted at me to indicate that he thought indeed they had, referencing the 2010 General Election result as evidence.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
UKIP will have won a moral victory if UKIP +AIFE win combined. Obviously it will be annoying, but a hollow victory for whoever were to win by default... and long term will play into the anti establishmnet meme that has built up as the other parties and media attack
If its the Conservative I could swallow it thanks to nabbing the 25/1 on Monday
Actually it will be confirmation that KIPPERS are too stupid to read a ballot paper.
Possibly
My parents are both voting UKIP for the first time, as am I, and I am certain one of us will vote for the wrong party.. stupid old kippers
Exactly, stupid old kippers. If people are too stupid to read a ballot paper, what does that say about their understanding of the relevant issues.
I think it would be quite an easy mistake to make, and wouldnt confuse that mistake with them being stupid at all. It would be a shame, especially as many people have very little interest in politics, arent nearly as concened as people on here, and may have been motivated to vote for UKIP having not voted for a long while.
But take hollow satisfaction out of it if you will, it is what it is. At least we will be almost certain that they didnt intend to vote Labour Conservative or Lib Dem..
Seriously, you believe people who want to vote for the UKIP candidate are too thick to be able to read the ballot.? Incredible.
No I dont think they are necessarily "too thick" at all... I think you might be if that's what you took from my post
Just that people will go in to vote, probably on the way to the shops or something, not particularly concentrating, the first thing thet see on the ballot will be something that looks like UKIP, and they may well accidentally vote for that party. It is confusing, hence OGH mentioning it about 50 times this month.
I am not having a go at the other party, or making any comment other than it could happen, and if I were a staucnh supporter of the party that won because of it, I wouldnt feel like celebrating all that much.
Would be like if there was BNP and 8NP on the ballot paper.. if they scored over 50% between them would it be a cause for celebration and smugness that over half the country were racist but a few of them had ticked the wrong box?
"After ICM’s May Polling for The Guardian Found 3 million More UKIP voters Than in April – An Industry Methodology Rethink Is In Order.
I asked seasoned commentator Mike Smithson of Politicalbetting.com over Twitter if he still thought the unprompted Telephone polls such as Ipsos Mori (showing 3% UKIP national support just before in October 2012) had UKIP’s support level right.
Ben Page, Chief Executive of Ipsos Mori, the UK’s second largest market research firm – swiftly tweeted at me to indicate that he thought indeed they had, referencing the 2010 General Election result as evidence.
'The original cost estimate for the 2012 Olympics was something like 2.4 million pounds' --- No that was a blunt lie, a figure worked out on the back of an envelope. it pretty soon went up and once a realistic figure was arrived at under proper manageent then it was stuck to.
There is no 50% construction contingency in the HS2 figures. And the outurn at current date will not be '80 billion'. The big additional contingency in HS2 figures is a political one, it is to cover political demands which no one can predict. The best way to deliver HS2 cheaply is to buck up and get on with it.
"After ICM’s May Polling for The Guardian Found 3 million More UKIP voters Than in April – An Industry Methodology Rethink Is In Order.
I asked seasoned commentator Mike Smithson of Politicalbetting.com over Twitter if he still thought the unprompted Telephone polls such as Ipsos Mori (showing 3% UKIP national support just before in October 2012) had UKIP’s support level right.
Ben Page, Chief Executive of Ipsos Mori, the UK’s second largest market research firm – swiftly tweeted at me to indicate that he thought indeed they had, referencing the 2010 General Election result as evidence.
"After ICM’s May Polling for The Guardian Found 3 million More UKIP voters Than in April – An Industry Methodology Rethink Is In Order.
I asked seasoned commentator Mike Smithson of Politicalbetting.com over Twitter if he still thought the unprompted Telephone polls such as Ipsos Mori (showing 3% UKIP national support just before in October 2012) had UKIP’s support level right.
Ben Page, Chief Executive of Ipsos Mori, the UK’s second largest market research firm – swiftly tweeted at me to indicate that he thought indeed they had, referencing the 2010 General Election result as evidence.
'I wonder if any company or consortium could be found who would guarantee to build the line for a fixed price.' The tenders for all the different sections of work will be at a fixed price. The 14 billion contingencies are over and above the normal engineering and building contingencies which cover changes in design once work has started and unexpected problems for instance in the ground and old fashioned changes of mind by the client. These 14 billion contingencies are mainly for political events which may cause delays disruption and changes.
In other words, no, nobody will take on the project for a fixed price. Suppose we put it a bit wider, not just the build but the running of the railway. Would any company or consortium step up then? Surely there must be at least one, after all we keep getting told that this railway is needed and will make a profit for the taxpayer.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
UKIP will have won a moral victory if UKIP +AIFE win combined. Obviously it will be annoying, but a hollow victory for whoever were to win by default... and long term will play into the anti establishmnet meme that has built up as the other parties and media attack
If its the Conservative I could swallow it thanks to nabbing the 25/1 on Monday
Actually it will be confirmation that KIPPERS are too stupid to read a ballot paper.
Possibly
My parents are both voting UKIP for the first time, as am I, and I am certain one of us will vote for the wrong party.. stupid old kippers
Exactly, stupid old kippers. If people are too stupid to read a ballot paper, what does that say about their understanding of the relevant issues.
I think it would be quite an easy mistake to make, and wouldnt confuse that mistake with them being stupid at all. It would be a shame, especially as many people have very little interest in politics, arent nearly as concened as people on here, and may have been motivated to vote for UKIP having not voted for a long while.
But take hollow satisfaction out of it if you will, it is what it is. At least we will be almost certain that they didnt intend to vote Labour Conservative or Lib Dem..
Seriously, you believe people who want to vote for the UKIP candidate are too thick to be able to read the ballot.? Incredible.
When this happened with the literal democrats it tended to be solicitors, head-teachers etc who misvoted as they tended to scan read more. Since UKIP has a greater proportion of 'working class' then it should have less of an effect.
Ukip’s small business spokesman has been accused of hypocrisy after his restaurant employed seven illegal immigrants last year.
Ukip has regularly attacked the government’s immigration policy for allowing “huge” numbers of foreign workers to come to the UK and failing to put “the British people first”.
Apols if posted before, but doesn't this suggest that Salmond is a bigger threat to independence than Cameron is to the Union?
MORE than a third of Scots would be more likely to vote No in the referendum if Alex Salmond was to become Prime Minister of an independent Scotland, a poll has found.
Ukip’s small business spokesman has been accused of hypocrisy after his restaurant employed seven illegal immigrants last year.
Ukip has regularly attacked the government’s immigration policy for allowing “huge” numbers of foreign workers to come to the UK and failing to put “the British people first”.
Kipper employing illegal immigrants is funny and allow people to call Kippers hypocrites but won't shift any votes.
He's likely to be an MEP next week though.
Did he do it purposely or by accident?
Doesn't matter. Employers are supposed to ensure their employees are in the country legally and allowed to work. Saying they didn't know is not an excuse.
Kipper employing illegal immigrants is funny and allow people to call Kippers hypocrites but won't shift any votes.
He's likely to be an MEP next week though.
Did he do it purposely or by accident?
Doesn't matter. Employers are supposed to ensure their employees are in the country legally and allowed to work. Saying they didn't know is not an excuse.
Why do you keep coming out with statements of fact that happen to be just your opinion? It might matter to people that were considering voting for him, its a reasonable question to ask.
If someone assumed a worker was English and didnt ask to see his passport, in my book that is nowhere near as bad as deliberately employing an illegal immigrant.
Tim Stanley and Paddy Ashdown wiping the floor with the SNP's 'external affairs' spokesman (Salmond getting into practice for independence?) on QT, hopefully signals the start of a more passionate, effective Better Together campaign
Comments
http://labourlist.org/2014/05/balls-speech-signals-labours-shift-in-focus-to-eu-reform/
This means that services cannot be added to line, be that passenger services http://railnews.mobi/news/2013/07/31-orr-refuses-virgin-bid-for.html or freight services despite companies such as Virgin wishing to add new services.
This clearly holds back the economy if you restricted in ability move goods and people.
As places such as Milton Keynes grows and the demand from places grows then problem worsens.
The track capacity issue is primarily caused by the mixing of freight, commuter and intercity with different acceleration and top speed characteristics, desperate away the intercity services from the WCML to HS2 and create a load of new capacity on the old network for commuter services and freight to more efficiently use the line and move the intercity into new tracks, as happens in much of the rest of the planet.
Oh, the expected total cost for London Manchester and Leeds via Birmingham actually £28bn with £14bn of contingency lets not get carried away the exaggeration.
On a side note, how is Heidi's predictive abilities these days? She must be getting to be an old lady these days but any chance you could let her have a run over the cards for the Euros?
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/nov/26/gangs-sexual-violence-warzones
I'm not expecting to collect.
This MACE website is a great source of material for anoraks
http://www.macearchive.org/Archive/Title/atv-today-26071965-enoch-powell-vox-pops/MediaEntry/25428.html?Action=Cookie
Indian businessman wants Enoch as leader in 1969
http://www.macearchive.org/Archive/Title/midlands-news-08101969-indian-businessman-backs-enoch-powell/MediaEntry/1588.html
Godzilla was not what I was expecting.
It was different, but it was enjoyable.
Worth a view.
This;ll be a deluge at exactly a week tonight - Ukip supporters claiming they were duped into voting for wrong party
http://goo.gl/8Z2rfC
If I was a LD MP I would try the second route, if I was a heavyweight LD MP I would try the first route in that case they might select Danny Alexander as the hapless guy (though he might be even worse than Clegg and cost the LD even more seats)
Nick Sutton ✔ @suttonnick
Friday's Telegraph (Scotland) front page - "PM pledges new Holyrood powers" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers #indyref pic.twitter.com/KNxzK7CQwV
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops one to two points: CON 34%, LAB 36%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops one to two points: CON 34%, LAB 36%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%
Oh, and it is very tough on the Electoral Commission because their failure to act highlights the already obvious fact that they are as fit for purpose as a filigree condom.
I wonder if any company or consortium could be found who would guarantee to build the line for a fixed price. If not why not?
The Sunday Times yougov generally has the largest Lab's of the week.
The fieldwork is conducted on Friday, I wonder what makes people so grumpy on a Friday.
@SarahPalinUSA: Innovation found only in the USA! You know, an AR-15 makes a great gift – what more says, “I love you”? Eh, you... http://t.co/FJWdC1seLF
Get the thing approved and firmed up asap and the costs stay low.
If its the Conservative I could swallow it thanks to nabbing the 25/1 on Monday
Plus Telegraph has a get rich quick story "Official:How to make a million".
I am surprised to hear he Heidi is so young. You must have started working her at a very early age. Pup labour, not good. As for he pro-German bias I suppose it is only to be expected. Do give her a bicce from me though.
My parents are both voting UKIP for the first time, as am I, and I am certain one of us will vote for the wrong party.. stupid old kippers
@SkyNews: TIMES FRONTPAGE: Scientists in cover-up of ‘damaging’ climate view #SkyPapers http://t.co/Vilo5kw8nH
We vote with an X because it's anonymous. If someone made an identifying mark, such as their signature, they'd render their vote invalid.
Play the ball Pbers not the man
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/14/Climate-Science-Defector-Forced-to-Resign-by-Alarmist-Fatwa
You are saying - in all seriousness - that spending at least 42 billion gbp and more likely at least 80 billion gbp on improving rail passenger and freight traffic between London and Birmingham is an investment that will make a profit? Are there better ways to spend the money -roads, air links etc?
As for the 50% contingency, that is simply unrealistic. If you don't know your costs within 50% then that is a HUGE red flag that your plan is nonsense- and I say that as a project manager of many years.
It might come in handy if I ever take her to see where my dad went to school!
Birmingham is miles better compared with the 70s, according to everything I've read, seen and heard.
P.S. I still haven't forgiven you for saying I maim and kill other people.
But take hollow satisfaction out of it if you will, it is what it is. At least we will be almost certain that they didnt intend to vote Labour Conservative or Lib Dem..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2629473/Gay-councillor-trolled-political-rival-falsely-accused-keeping-gimp-sex-slave-soliciting-sex-Boy-Scouts.html
She was ranting and raving in full imbecile mode about Austin Mitchell yesturday.
As the beneficiary of same, I careful made sure all the doors were locked before going to bed.
"After ICM’s May Polling for The Guardian Found 3 million More UKIP voters Than in April – An Industry Methodology Rethink Is In Order.
I asked seasoned commentator Mike Smithson of Politicalbetting.com over Twitter if he still thought the unprompted Telephone polls such as Ipsos Mori (showing 3% UKIP national support just before in October 2012) had UKIP’s support level right.
Ben Page, Chief Executive of Ipsos Mori, the UK’s second largest market research firm – swiftly tweeted at me to indicate that he thought indeed they had, referencing the 2010 General Election result as evidence.
It’s not 2010 any more…"
http://survation.com/icm-research-shows-ukip-support-doubling-in-29-days-another-clear-indication-polling-industry-methodology-needs-to-change/
The tenders for all the different sections of work will be at a fixed price. The 14 billion contingencies are over and above the normal engineering and building contingencies which cover changes in design once work has started and unexpected problems for instance in the ground and old fashioned changes of mind by the client. These 14 billion contingencies are mainly for political events which may cause delays disruption and changes.
And Mike did do a thread on it last June
http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2013/06/11/its-time-for-the-rest-of-the-polling-industry-to-follow-survation-and-treat-ukip-on-an-equal-basis/
Just that people will go in to vote, probably on the way to the shops or something, not particularly concentrating, the first thing thet see on the ballot will be something that looks like UKIP, and they may well accidentally vote for that party. It is confusing, hence OGH mentioning it about 50 times this month.
I am not having a go at the other party, or making any comment other than it could happen, and if I were a staucnh supporter of the party that won because of it, I wouldnt feel like celebrating all that much.
Would be like if there was BNP and 8NP on the ballot paper.. if they scored over 50% between them would it be a cause for celebration and smugness that over half the country were racist but a few of them had ticked the wrong box?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbAwOUpY5hU
There is no 50% construction contingency in the HS2 figures. And the outurn at current date will not be '80 billion'. The big additional contingency in HS2 figures is a political one, it is to cover political demands which no one can predict. The best way to deliver HS2 cheaply is to buck up and get on with it.
Its not 2013 anymore...!
Did anyone change the methodology?
He's likely to be an MEP next week though.
MORE than a third of Scots would be more likely to vote No in the referendum if Alex Salmond was to become Prime Minister of an independent Scotland, a poll has found.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/salmond-would-push-third-of-scots-towards-no-1-3412296
You're like twitter when they need to put 50p in the meter!
Get a move on
If someone assumed a worker was English and didnt ask to see his passport, in my book that is nowhere near as bad as deliberately employing an illegal immigrant.
I'm shocked.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27430515
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27420557