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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014


    Landlords have to short let as the bankrupt banks demand it thanks to liquidity rules demanded by their insurers (HMG). Which combined with a lack of supply ramps prices so that people now are increasingly unable to afford to rent never mind buy. The solution is obvious - build social housing. But government and local govt are apparently broke and the developers don't want to know.....

    Really did not understand that bit. Why on earth would banks want short term lets? And how does this supposedly affect their liquidity?

    Banks want to be confident that the landlord can pay the BTL loan and the length of the covenant is one of the factors that improves that opportunity.

    Agree with much of the rest though. But housebuilding is now recovering and proceeding at a higher rate. This will be the best year for completions for some considerable time.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Carnyx said:

    I did think this was in questionable taste:

    Alex Salmond’s campaign for independence has been accused of plumbing “appalling” depths after two senior ministers argued a separate Scotland would be able to afford a more generous state pension because its OAPs would die younger.

    Nicola Sturgeon, the Deputy First Minister, and Shona Robison used the country’s poor health record to claim that Scottish pensioners should be given more money because their lower life expectancy means they have shorter retirements.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10825904/SNP-uses-appalling-pensioner-death-figures-to-argue-for-independence.html

    It is also highly relevant to unionist arguments about the cost of pensions.
    But not to the success of devolved health care? Nor Scotland's higher dependency ratio?

    Pathetic crap, hospitals do not reduce poverty and deprivation. They are there to treat the sick. Having our own money to try and combat poverty rather than funding Trident , London , etc would improve the situation.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:


    Carnyx, If it is posted by SCOTTP you know it is a blatant lie.

    Oh dear, Malcy.

    Even Carnyx has given up on this one.

    We waited 2 years for polling crossover. We'll wait a lot longer for a Nat to admit the Sainted Eck might just have erred, but at least some have the good grace to stop arguing that black is white in his defence.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    OK, this joke is specially for TSE and Antifrank:

    Q.Who are India's favourite English electronic band?

    A. Depeche Modi!

    (I'll get my dhoti...)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:

    The access to Norwegian waters for fishing by EU boats was negotiated in exchange for Norwegian boats' right to Scottish waters. Remove Scotland from the EU and the conclusion is inevitable.

    Er, that's the point.

    Access to Norwegian waters is non-negotiable, guaranteed by a UN convention that the SNP claim to support
    They can sail in them. It's whether they can fish in them is the point.

    Carnyx, you are wasting your time , he will not get it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Dr. Prasannan, hope you're having a nice time in India.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046

    Regarding Milliband, issues and competence, I get it. People question his ability to deliver these policies because they are difficult. But at least he has identified them as problems - and they are for millions - so that as the campaign goes on and the Tories go into full denial mode, that's when it will resonate more.

    Ashcroft shows just 1 in 8 are feeling any economic recovery, so the Tories repeatedly restating economic miracle just makes this disconnect between stated and actual reality wider and wider. It will be the same on energy. And rent. And cost of living. And access to GPs. Milliband has been great at identifying genuine problems just not yet persuasive at how he would fix them. And I think the reality here is that under the current failed economic model many are unfixable.

    We have a major housing crisis and its getting worse. Landlords have to short let as the bankrupt banks demand it thanks to liquidity rules demanded by their insurers (HMG). Which combined with a lack of supply ramps prices so that people now are increasingly unable to afford to rent never mind buy. The solution is obvious - build social housing. But government and local govt are apparently broke and the developers don't want to know.....

    Remind us how many social housing homes were built between 1997 and 2010. Labour could have addressed this issue, but did nothing.
    What would the odds be on 200,000 new homes being built in 2016, should EdM be PM?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:


    Carnyx, you are wasting your time , he will not get it.

    Malc, you're wasting your time. Even Carnyx has given up trying to spin this one for Eck.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    eek said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: J Chapman reporting Darling dumped from No campaign and replaced by Douglas Alexander. Or, Alexander dumped as head of Labour campaign.

    So to save the union the best we have is someone who has already lost two elections to the SNP (which given the 2011 result shows that he didn't learn anything the first time round) coordinated Labour’s loss in 2010 and then ran David Miliband’s doomed leadership campaign.

    Can we just be honest and wish Scotland farewell and good luck....
    Also to add that Brown is to take a bigger part. Only these idiots could replace a loser with two more losers.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2014
    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    I did think this was in questionable taste:

    Alex Salmond’s campaign for independence has been accused of plumbing “appalling” depths after two senior ministers argued a separate Scotland would be able to afford a more generous state pension because its OAPs would die younger.

    Nicola Sturgeon, the Deputy First Minister, and Shona Robison used the country’s poor health record to claim that Scottish pensioners should be given more money because their lower life expectancy means they have shorter retirements.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10825904/SNP-uses-appalling-pensioner-death-figures-to-argue-for-independence.html

    It is merely a statement of fact, unionists are always crowing about low life expectancy in Scotland. This is a perfect reason why we need to be independent, people paying tax for pensions and age being raised as they are subsidising the south of England. So they get robbed twice.
    Too much whisky with the oats today?
    There's an absolutely rocking dessert made with whisky and oats (and cream and raspberries) called Cranachan. Not all Scottish food is deep fried or boiled in a sheep's stomach!
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Remind us how many social housing homes were built between 1997 and 2010. Labour could have addressed this issue, but did nothing.

    Indeed - inaction from governments from Thatcher onwards has created this crisis. Is your suggestion that because Tory and Labour governments of the past did nothing that Tory and Labour governments of the future also have to do nothing?

    A large part of this country's large problems stem from your response - "what did X do". We have to think longer than 4 or 5 yearly election cycles. Other countries do, which is why they have infrastructure fit for purpose.

    No, I'm pointing out that over a 13 year period in office Labour did nothing to address the problem. With that track record, it's increasingly hard to believe that they'll really do anything about it in the future, other than talk up the plan in a desperate bid to win some votes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Carnyx said:

    I did think this was in questionable taste:

    Alex Salmond’s campaign for independence has been accused of plumbing “appalling” depths after two senior ministers argued a separate Scotland would be able to afford a more generous state pension because its OAPs would die younger.

    Nicola Sturgeon, the Deputy First Minister, and Shona Robison used the country’s poor health record to claim that Scottish pensioners should be given more money because their lower life expectancy means they have shorter retirements.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10825904/SNP-uses-appalling-pensioner-death-figures-to-argue-for-independence.html

    It is also highly relevant to unionist arguments about the cost of pensions.
    But not to the success of devolved health care? Nor Scotland's higher dependency ratio?


    Those things have a time lag in them and stem largely from the years of unionist control of Scotland, and right back to the 1930s given the nature of such things as intrauterine influences, maternal smoking, and so on. Of course, unionist parties were in charge for the first two terms of devolution, too. So if you want to try and turn that into some sort of argument against devolution, never mind independence, you will need to address the horrendous budgetary impact of bungled PFI and PPP schemes.

    However, the problem of life expectancy has much deeper roots than the efficiency of the health care system - appalling council housing in many areas, and the mass unemployment and stress of the Thatcher years - as well, it should be said, as such things as the Scottish love affair with alcohol. I don't think anyone has ever denied this - the SNP least of all as Mr Salmond's recent remarks show - and it is going to be a key problem area.

    And on the subject of devolution, you might want to mention the anti-smoking regulations, pioneered in Scotland to much scorn from certain quarters, but very much to the credit of the then First Minister, Mr McConnell, and the MSPs who supported the measures. I believe they have had a measurable impact already.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:

    The access to Norwegian waters for fishing by EU boats was negotiated in exchange for Norwegian boats' right to Scottish waters. Remove Scotland from the EU and the conclusion is inevitable.

    Er, that's the point.

    Access to Norwegian waters is non-negotiable, guaranteed by a UN convention that the SNP claim to support
    Outside of the 12 mile zone, vessels can transit as they please. How can something so simple, prove so difficult for the Gnats to understand?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters

    Unless Eck is going for a North Korean style isolationist policy.

    Out of the Union, out of the EU and out of the UN.
    Dumber joins the fray to support Dumb. Neither can understand the difference between transit and fishing, only lies register with these bozo's.

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Toby Young: "Labour's vanishing poll lead could be the beginning of the end for Ed Miliband."

    Time to fire up the ‘SaveEd’ campaign.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100271252/labours-vanishing-poll-lead-could-be-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-ed-miliband/
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564

    Will there be any late night results on telly, worth watching, next Thursday?

    Yes, lots of local elections are counting. Activists will be tied up watching the verification of the Euro ballots to give an impression of what's happening so we can all rehearse of jubilation/evasions.

    I continue to think the Euro poll is the most dramatic - the others are actually consistent with the tiny Labour leads in YouGov because of methodological isuses. The Euro one is very striking and we could do with another to confirm or vary it.

    O/T: quite a funny piece this morning on climate change:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/12/john-oliver-climate-change-deniers_n_5311401.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-comedy&ir=UK+Comedy

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    TGOHF said:

    Ed now on R5 : "polls go up and down"

    The trend is not Ed's friend.

    Which the R4 presenter skewered Andy Burnham with on Today "fine, but compared to a year ago........"

    In that package there was another interviewee claiming that the "see a GP in 48 hrs" would require (I think I heard right) 3 billion not one hundred million, which Burnham defended as "a good start...."

  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Hello team Scotland - 5 mins till whisky 0 clock.

    Boring threads = not good news
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:


    Carnyx, If it is posted by SCOTTP you know it is a blatant lie.

    Oh dear, Malcy.

    Even Carnyx has given up on this one.

    We waited 2 years for polling crossover. We'll wait a lot longer for a Nat to admit the Sainted Eck might just have erred, but at least some have the good grace to stop arguing that black is white in his defence.
    Scott, you boys are desperate, any old lie or smear suffices nowadays. Get prepared for YES.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    Neither can understand the difference between transit and fishing,

    Eck is the one who doesn't appear to understand the difference.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Carnyx, impressive of Thatcher to kill Scots over 20 years after leaving office whilst at the same time being dead.

    Mr. StClare, Miliband is perfectly safe (as Labour leader). Too late to axe, and the most obvious replacement is a serial traffic offender.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Nice low bar being set based on one likely outlier poll .... I don't believe for a minute they will.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/05/labour-danger-finishing-third-european-elections
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited May 2014
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:

    The access to Norwegian waters for fishing by EU boats was negotiated in exchange for Norwegian boats' right to Scottish waters. Remove Scotland from the EU and the conclusion is inevitable.

    Er, that's the point.

    Access to Norwegian waters is non-negotiable, guaranteed by a UN convention that the SNP claim to support
    Outside of the 12 mile zone, vessels can transit as they please. How can something so simple, prove so difficult for the Gnats to understand?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters

    Unless Eck is going for a North Korean style isolationist policy.

    Out of the Union, out of the EU and out of the UN.
    the difference between transit and fishing,

    That Eck's failure to understand, threatening to deny transit to boats fishing elsewhere.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:


    Scott, you boys are desperate, any old lie or smear suffices nowadays. Get prepared for YES.

    Malcolm, you don't appear terribly confident in your position or argument when you dismiss direct quotes from Your Glorious Leader, President for Life Eck as "lies"

    Why do you think he is lying to you?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:


    Carnyx, If it is posted by SCOTTP you know it is a blatant lie.

    We'll wait a lot longer for a Nat to admit the Sainted Eck might just have erred, but at least some have the good grace to stop arguing that black is white in his defence.
    Funny, isn't it, we regularly have Tories decrying a piece of Cameron idiocy, Labour bemoaning Miliband folly and Lib Dems despairing of Clegg.

    But when do we ever hear a Nat or a Kipper concede that their anointed one is less than perfect?

    It's a cult, or religion....

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    OK, this joke is specially for TSE and Antifrank:

    Q.Who are India's favourite English electronic band?

    A. Depeche Modi!

    (I'll get my dhoti...)

    Some days you shouldn't even bother to take off your coat.

    I hope you're having a splendid time in The Jewel of The Crown

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146

    But I was assured Ali Darling was brilliant.

    @jameschappers: EXC Alistair Darling 'effectively dumped' from campaign to keep Scotland in the UK following secret cross-party talks http://t.co/XVdnZx2TiP

    Time for an Al is crap thread? Though tbf Darling being replaced by serial screwer up of campaigns wee Dougie is on a par with Michael Moore being shunted aside for Carmichael.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Freggles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Freggles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Ed on BBC1 at 8.10 - bad timing for him.

    He'll say polls go up and down - you heard it here first

    Give that man a coconut - word for word correct...
    I'm a red liberal, but increasingly seems like Ed could be outsourced to a pre programmed algorithm. It could extract policy proposals from Guardian comments , but only ones that are measurableq
    Lord Ashcroft‏@LordAshcroft·27s
    Could somebody check whether Ed Miliband is getting out of bed yet.....

    PS - Thanks NP, I'll block out Friday morning to recover then!!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Mr. Carnyx, impressive of Thatcher to kill Scots over 20 years after leaving office whilst at the same time being dead.

    Mr. StClare, Miliband is perfectly safe (as Labour leader). Too late to axe, and the most obvious replacement is a serial traffic offender.

    I didn't, as it happens, say she killed Scots - merely (and carefully) gave a chronological indication (much as one might say the Restoration era). But, yes, it is quite frightening what effects economic and political decisions can have, decades down the line. I'm thinking in particular of the peripheral housing estates and high-rises.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection :

    Con 315 .. Lab 266 .. LibDem 35 .. SNP 10 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 2 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 11 seats short of a majority.

    Notes :

    Record high Conservative figure. Previous high 308 on 25th Mar 14.
    Record low Labour figure. Previous low 268 on 10th Sep 13.
    Record joint low LibDem figure, previously matched on 4th February 14.

    ...........................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    Will there be any late night results on telly, worth watching, next Thursday?

    Yes, lots of local elections are counting. Activists will be tied up watching the verification of the Euro ballots to give an impression of what's happening so we can all rehearse of jubilation/evasions.

    I continue to think the Euro poll is the most dramatic - the others are actually consistent with the tiny Labour leads in YouGov because of methodological isuses. The Euro one is very striking and we could do with another to confirm or vary it.

    O/T: quite a funny piece this morning on climate change:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/12/john-oliver-climate-change-deniers_n_5311401.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-comedy&ir=UK+Comedy

    As I said earlier Nick the Euro poll was the one that really stands out. I can't help suspecting that a more realistic certainty to vote filter has been applied. As others have pointed out polls for the euros tend to overstate both the major parties but particularly Labour and I suspect that ICM have decided to do something about it.

    Losing 6 in the Westminster poll is hardly insignificant though and nor is the fall in Labour support into the low 30s. Yougov still there at 36 but the others must be a real concern for Labour as must the personal scores of Ed.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    I did think this was in questionable taste:

    Alex Salmond’s campaign for independence has been accused of plumbing “appalling” depths after two senior ministers argued a separate Scotland would be able to afford a more generous state pension because its OAPs would die younger.

    Nicola Sturgeon, the Deputy First Minister, and Shona Robison used the country’s poor health record to claim that Scottish pensioners should be given more money because their lower life expectancy means they have shorter retirements.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10825904/SNP-uses-appalling-pensioner-death-figures-to-argue-for-independence.html

    It is also highly relevant to unionist arguments about the cost of pensions.
    But not to the success of devolved health care? Nor Scotland's higher dependency ratio?


    Those things have a time lag in them and stem largely from the years of unionist control of Scotland, and right back to the 1930s given the nature of such things as intrauterine influences, maternal smoking, and so on. Of course, unionist parties were in charge for the first two terms of devolution, too. So if you want to try and turn that into some sort of argument against devolution, never mind independence, you will need to address the horrendous budgetary impact of bungled PFI and PPP schemes.

    However, the problem of life expectancy has much deeper roots than the efficiency of the health care system - appalling council housing in many areas, and the mass unemployment and stress of the Thatcher years - as well, it should be said, as such things as the Scottish love affair with alcohol. I don't think anyone has ever denied this - the SNP least of all as Mr Salmond's recent remarks show - and it is going to be a key problem area.

    And on the subject of devolution, you might want to mention the anti-smoking regulations, pioneered in Scotland to much scorn from certain quarters, but very much to the credit of the then First Minister, Mr McConnell, and the MSPs who supported the measures. I believe they have had a measurable impact already.
    There is some variation in smoking rates by region in Englandand between countries within the UK.

    In 2012 Yorkshire and Humber had the highest prevalence (22.7%)
    while London and the South East had the lowest at 18%.

    In 2012, adult smoking rates by country were:

    England:20%
    Scotland 23%
    Wales 23%
    N Ireland 24%

    http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_93.pdf
  • eek said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: J Chapman reporting Darling dumped from No campaign and replaced by Douglas Alexander. Or, Alexander dumped as head of Labour campaign.

    So to save the union the best we have is someone who has already lost two elections to the SNP (which given the 2011 result shows that he didn't learn anything the first time round) coordinated Labour’s loss in 2010 and then ran David Miliband’s doomed leadership campaign.
    Can we just be honest and wish Scotland farewell and good luck....
    I agree and D Hodges probably right that D Alexander is being shunted off the GE campaign to "save" the BT campaign. D Alexander has a great record in campaigns ... when looked at from the view of his opponents.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    I
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:


    Carnyx, If it is posted by SCOTTP you know it is a blatant lie.

    Oh dear, Malcy.

    Even Carnyx has given up on this one.

    We waited 2 years for polling crossover. We'll wait a lot longer for a Nat to admit the Sainted Eck might just have erred, but at least some have the good grace to stop arguing that black is white in his defence.
    Scott, you boys are desperate, any old lie or smear suffices nowadays. Get prepared for YES.
    I know I'll regret this but here goes

    Did Eck say he would stop fishing boats transiting Scottish waters?

    Or

    Did Eck say he would stop them fishing in Scottish waters?


    Which of the two options would he have the power to legally enforce?


  • Record high Conservative figure. Previous high 308 on 25th Mar 14.
    Record low Labour figure. Previous low 268 on 10th Sep 13.
    Record joint low LibDem figure, previously matched on 4th February 14.


    I am the seer of seers!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:

    The access to Norwegian waters for fishing by EU boats was negotiated in exchange for Norwegian boats' right to Scottish waters. Remove Scotland from the EU and the conclusion is inevitable.

    Er, that's the point.

    Access to Norwegian waters is non-negotiable, guaranteed by a UN convention that the SNP claim to support
    Outside of the 12 mile zone, vessels can transit as they please. How can something so simple, prove so difficult for the Gnats to understand?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters

    Unless Eck is going for a North Korean style isolationist policy.

    Out of the Union, out of the EU and out of the UN.
    the difference between transit and fishing,

    That Eck's failure to understand, threatening to deny transit to boats fishing elsewhere.
    What Mr Salmond said in his Bruges speech was:

    "And the alternative – the fishing fleets of 12 countries being denied any access to Scottish waters and as a consequence, their access to Norwegian waters, which is also dependent on Scottish access;"

    Admittedly this is ambiguous - but not unduly so for a brief mention in a speech which covered much wider ground than that. A little research would show the facts which have been much pointed out (not least the difference between economic zones and formal territorial waters). To pretend otherwise is either obfuscation or incompetence.

    In any case a little geographical knowledge would show that the transit interpretation is absurd in itself as Norway has plenty of contact with EWNI, Danish, etc., economic zones. I'm actually shocked that anyone could seriously believe the transit story!

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    RIP HR Giger. The man who managed to scare the hell out of me as a teenager and designed one of the greatest monsters of all time

    http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/culture/Alien_creator_H.R._Giger_is_dead.html?cid=38569780
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Carnyx, you stated her policies and their impact were a factor in low Scottish life expectancy. All else is dancing on the head of a pin.

    I don't think anyone here's claimed Brown's insane pensions tax-grabbing (though universally reviled) caused a decline in life expectancy. There's a curious level of hatred for Thatcher that's quite pathological amongst certain groups. The Yorkshire miners celebrating her death was particularly despicable.
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382
    Ed on the radio this morning, speaking in a new strange tone and voice. Cost of living crisis and NHS crisis on his agenda. Surely if he is to go big on NHS he needs to rid Burnham SHARPLY.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    But I was assured Ali Darling was brilliant.

    @jameschappers: EXC Alistair Darling 'effectively dumped' from campaign to keep Scotland in the UK following secret cross-party talks http://t.co/XVdnZx2TiP

    Time for an Al is crap thread? Though tbf Darling being replaced by serial screwer up of campaigns wee Dougie is on a par with Michael Moore being shunted aside for Carmichael.
    Do a combined Ed and Al is crap thread.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Lol - Carnyx resorting to English. Yes do seem a bit desperate today. Perhaps they shouldn't base their ideology and thinking on what other people (they want to make foreign) do.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    macisback said:

    Ed on the radio this morning, speaking in a new strange tone and voice. Cost of living crisis and NHS crisis on his agenda. Surely if he is to go big on NHS he needs to rid Burnham SHARPLY.

    Any evidence to back this up? Labour has a twelve point lead on the nhs
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    Will there be any late night results on telly, worth watching, next Thursday?

    Yes, lots of local elections are counting. Activists will be tied up watching the verification of the Euro ballots to give an impression of what's happening so we can all rehearse of jubilation/evasions.

    I continue to think the Euro poll is the most dramatic - the others are actually consistent with the tiny Labour leads in YouGov because of methodological isuses. The Euro one is very striking and we could do with another to confirm or vary it.

    O/T: quite a funny piece this morning on climate change:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/12/john-oliver-climate-change-deniers_n_5311401.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-comedy&ir=UK+Comedy

    Not surprising Nick. Only comedians believe the climate change alarmists these days.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    RIP HR Giger. The man who managed to scare the hell out of me as a teenager and designed one of the greatest monsters of all time

    http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/culture/Alien_creator_H.R._Giger_is_dead.html?cid=38569780

    He was one of the greats.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    saddened said:


    I know I'll regret this but here goes

    Did Eck say he would stop fishing boats transiting Scottish waters?

    Or

    Did Eck say he would stop them fishing in Scottish waters?


    Which of the two options would he have the power to legally enforce?


    He said "access to"

    That is arguably ambiguous as to whether he meant transit, or fishing, but is unambiguously bollocks either way.

    He can't stop anyone fishing in another country's territorial waters, and he can't stop other countries transiting through Scottish waters.

    He is a Numpty. He made a mistake. Smarter Nats will keep quiet
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Carnyx said:

    Mr. Carnyx, impressive of Thatcher to kill Scots over 20 years after leaving office whilst at the same time being dead.

    Mr. StClare, Miliband is perfectly safe (as Labour leader). Too late to axe, and the most obvious replacement is a serial traffic offender.

    I'm thinking in particular of the peripheral housing estates and high-rises.
    How many of them were built in the 80s? And was Westminster or the local council responsible? The housing scheme (as they were called) I grew up in was built in the early 60s.

  • peterbuss said:

    Its true that Blair did not win the Euro's but I don't think that's quite comparing like with like. Blair was in Govt and usually these elections are an opportunity to give the governing Party a good kicking. Even Kinnock won them. If Labour did finish below the Conservatives then being in Opposition I can't think it would be anything other than a dreadful result for them.

    Agreed Peter. Blair never fought a Euro campaign as the LoTo. Kinnock (39%) and Margaret Beckett (37%) actually won one each. If EdM fails, Ed M should be viewed as less successful than them. Although Kinnock also lost one as LoTo as did Callaghan.
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Freggles said:

    macisback said:

    Ed on the radio this morning, speaking in a new strange tone and voice. Cost of living crisis and NHS crisis on his agenda. Surely if he is to go big on NHS he needs to rid Burnham SHARPLY.

    Any evidence to back this up? Labour has a twelve point lead on the nhs
    Plan C? Don't mention the economy or immigration at all. Ipsos Mori shows the NHS at number 4 in the issues index
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    JBriskin said:

    Hello team Scotland - 5 mins till whisky 0 clock.

    Boring threads = not good news

    You can always collect your subscription fee on the way out.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited May 2014
    Scots increasingly sick of Salmond;

    “Alex Salmond has become a liability for the Yes Camp because of the dishonest and arrogant way he has put forward his case,” he said. “It is clear that many people do not believe a word the First Minister says and are angry that he has put his referendum before the running of the country.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond-become-liability-yes-3533466
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Carnyx said:

    the transit interpretation is absurd

    An yet is less absurd than the alternative.

    Scotland will stop other countries fishing in Norwegian territorial waters? Even you won't claim that is what he meant, will you?

    He meant transit. He is a numpty. Get over it.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Patrick said:

    Record high Conservative figure. Previous high 308 on 25th Mar 14.
    Record low Labour figure. Previous low 268 on 10th Sep 13.
    Record joint low LibDem figure, previously matched on 4th February 14.


    I am the seer of seers!

    Claps ....

  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Carnyx said:


    What Mr Salmond said in his Bruges speech was:

    "And the alternative – the fishing fleets of 12 countries being denied any access to Scottish waters and as a consequence, their access to Norwegian waters, which is also dependent on Scottish access;"

    Admittedly this is ambiguous -


    Ambiguous? No

    Disingenuous? Yes.

    A deliberate conflation of fishing and transit, a tactic which not for the first (or probably the last) time has blown up in his face.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    edited May 2014
    Scott_P said:

    saddened said:


    I know I'll regret this but here goes

    Did Eck say he would stop fishing boats transiting Scottish waters?

    Or

    Did Eck say he would stop them fishing in Scottish waters?


    Which of the two options would he have the power to legally enforce?


    He said "access to"

    That is arguably ambiguous as to whether he meant transit, or fishing, but is unambiguously bollocks either way.

    He can't stop anyone fishing in another country's territorial waters, and he can't stop other countries transiting through Scottish waters.

    He is a Numpty. He made a mistake. Smarter Nats will keep quiet
    The point is that the access to Norwegian waters is a reciprocal EU arrangement which depends on Norwegian access to Scots waters. Scotland out of the EU = argument lapses, Norwegians will keep EU boats out of their waters themselves. Nothing to do with Mr S (and you are doing the old personalization thing again BTW - Eck, Numpty, and so on and so forth.)

    Edit: the above is of course for fishing rights, not transit. Sorry.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Freggles said:

    macisback said:

    Ed on the radio this morning, speaking in a new strange tone and voice. Cost of living crisis and NHS crisis on his agenda. Surely if he is to go big on NHS he needs to rid Burnham SHARPLY.

    Any evidence to back this up? Labour has a twelve point lead on the nhs
    The NHS is labours safety blanket. If they're going hard on this it mean they have nothing left.
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382
    Freggles said:

    macisback said:

    Ed on the radio this morning, speaking in a new strange tone and voice. Cost of living crisis and NHS crisis on his agenda. Surely if he is to go big on NHS he needs to rid Burnham SHARPLY.

    Any evidence to back this up? Labour has a twelve point lead on the nhs
    Mid Staffs when the debate gets heated Hunt will drop it in, too easy Labour need somebody fresh to speak on Health, they have some decent women to promote, it needs to be done now if serious ground can be gained on NHS.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564

    Freggles said:

    macisback said:

    Ed on the radio this morning, speaking in a new strange tone and voice. Cost of living crisis and NHS crisis on his agenda. Surely if he is to go big on NHS he needs to rid Burnham SHARPLY.

    Any evidence to back this up? Labour has a twelve point lead on the nhs
    The NHS is labours safety blanket. If they're going hard on this it mean they have nothing left.
    No - it's been in the planned grid for weeks.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Carnyx said:


    The point is that the access to Norwegian waters is a reciprocal EU arrangement which depends on Norwegian access to Scots waters.

    No, it isn't. Access to Norwegian waters is guaranteed by International Law
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Scots increasingly sick of Salmond;

    “Alex Salmond has become a liability for the Yes Camp because of the dishonest and arrogant way he has put forward his case,” he said. “It is clear that many people do not believe a word the First Minister says and are angry that he has put his referendum before the running of the country.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond-become-liability-yes-3533466

    Carnyx said:

    Mr. Carnyx, impressive of Thatcher to kill Scots over 20 years after leaving office whilst at the same time being dead.

    Mr. StClare, Miliband is perfectly safe (as Labour leader). Too late to axe, and the most obvious replacement is a serial traffic offender.

    I'm thinking in particular of the peripheral housing estates and high-rises.
    How many of them were built in the 80s? And was Westminster or the local council responsible? The housing scheme (as they were called) I grew up in was built in the early 60s.

    50s, 60s, to some extent the 70s, that sort of time (and quite a few prewar, though obviously not high rise or so far out).

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Will there be any late night results on telly, worth watching, next Thursday?

    Yes, lots of local elections are counting. Activists will be tied up watching the verification of the Euro ballots to give an impression of what's happening so we can all rehearse of jubilation/evasions.

    I continue to think the Euro poll is the most dramatic - the others are actually consistent with the tiny Labour leads in YouGov because of methodological isuses. The Euro one is very striking and we could do with another to confirm or vary it.

    O/T: quite a funny piece this morning on climate change:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/12/john-oliver-climate-change-deniers_n_5311401.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-comedy&ir=UK+Comedy

    Not surprising Nick. Only comedians believe the climate change alarmists these days.
    A majority of the UK population are not comedians, and yet still trust the climate scientists. Though I've come across a couple of climate scientists who are capable of telling a good joke, I wouldn't have said it was a particularly common trait within the profession.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    No, I'm pointing out that over a 13 year period in office Labour did nothing to address the problem. With that track record, it's increasingly hard to believe that they'll really do anything about it in the future, other than talk up the plan in a desperate bid to win some votes.

    What may start to dawn on Labour supporters is that there are swathes of things that Labour did not address in 13 years - even when they were pissing a trillion pounds up a wall. What chance of their pet projects getting done when Labour has no money? Nil.

    Which feeds into a broader issue. When they have no money to throw around, what is the point of Labour? This is something that Labour has obviously not addressed in the past four years. It begins to smell of hubris. They thought 2015 was theirs on a plate. They planted a few land mines in the last 5 minutes of their reign, such as the 50p tax rate, and expected the toxic brew of cuts and massive job losses to herald them back into Downing Street on a path of red rose petals from an adoring and expectant electorate. Except.....

    And they have a dire leader. I mean - truly, exceptionally dire. He has done nothing to prepare the ground for 2015. He looks less comfortable in the post than he did three years ago. And I am now raising to 25%-30% my assessment of Labour's 2015 election campaign being historically, catastrophically, wheels-falling off, reach-for-the-textbooks-in-fifty-years-as-a-case-study-in-disaster bad.

    They have no offer to the voters. Voters are brighter than they are given credit for. And they have very, very finely tuned olfactory powers when it comes to sniffing out bullshit.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    JBriskin said:

    Hello team Scotland - 5 mins till whisky 0 clock.

    Boring threads = not good news

    Mr Brisket, cannot drink in work time, also far too early for anything other than tea.
    However , hope you enjoy, I will toast your good health this evening.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Freggles said:

    macisback said:

    Ed on the radio this morning, speaking in a new strange tone and voice. Cost of living crisis and NHS crisis on his agenda. Surely if he is to go big on NHS he needs to rid Burnham SHARPLY.

    Any evidence to back this up? Labour has a twelve point lead on the nhs
    The NHS is labours safety blanket. If they're going hard on this it mean they have nothing left.
    No - it's been in the planned grid for weeks.

    Nick, one doesn't preclude the other.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Just watched the John Oliver piece. Over 97% of scientific research papers looked at endorsed the theory of climate change. Which would matter, if science were a popularity contest.

    Meanwhile, the unpredicted and unexplained (by climate change believers) plateau in global temperature continues. And we know from history (Henry VIII and Caligula/Claudius' reigns all saw rising temperatures) the climate can get warmer without any industrial activity whatsoever.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    I shall be voting for "An Alternative in Europe – UK Independence Now" just to annoy the 'kippers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:


    The point is that the access to Norwegian waters is a reciprocal EU arrangement which depends on Norwegian access to Scots waters.

    No, it isn't. Access to Norwegian waters is guaranteed by International Law
    For fishing rights, it isn't - which is the point (I have already amended my post to reflect this omission).
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited May 2014

    Will there be any late night results on telly, worth watching, next Thursday?

    [cut]
    O/T: quite a funny piece this morning on climate change:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/12/john-oliver-climate-change-deniers_n_5311401.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-comedy&ir=UK+Comedy
    It's funny Nick. The broader issue of course, is living wisely. Might as well try mordant humour. But judging by our continuing and expanding consumerism I can't see to what the word "alarmist", I sometimes hear, relates.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    I wonder how much Red & Yellow -> Green switching is going on for the Euros, I know Mike doesn't like them but perhaps there is some switching there. Anecdotally my other half hasn't decided between the reds and the greens...

    Con - Lab - UKIP
    Con - UKIP - Lab
    UKIP - Con - Lab

    Are all nicely profitable for me now

    UKIP - Lab - Con is more or less a wash

    Lab - Con - UKIP
    Lab - UKIP - Con

    Will lose me a bit of cash.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380

    JBriskin said:

    Hello team Scotland - 5 mins till whisky 0 clock.

    Boring threads = not good news

    You can always collect your subscription fee on the way out.
    But with only, err (thinks about checking diary - can't be asrsed) days left till the election why would I do that??

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    I shall be voting for "An Alternative in Europe – UK Independence Now" just to annoy the 'kippers.

    Are you going to be hiring a bill board to inform them of your decision?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Carnyx said:


    For fishing rights, it isn't - which is the point (I have already amended my post to reflect this omission).

    The fishing rights in Norwegian waters are not in the gift of Alex Salmond either. He can't stop people fishing there

    He is a numpty. Get over it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:


    Scott, you boys are desperate, any old lie or smear suffices nowadays. Get prepared for YES.

    Malcolm, you don't appear terribly confident in your position or argument when you dismiss direct quotes from Your Glorious Leader, President for Life Eck as "lies"

    Why do you think he is lying to you?
    LOL, cuckoo. You are not right in the head, the man is just a politician. He does seem able to upset unionists mind you. Your constant focus on Mr Salmond is symptomatic of the dearth of life in the unionist campaign. I like most people who want a YES , have no connection with the SNP and do not care what Mr Salmond says as long as he is for independence. It is all about SCOTLAND not Mr Salmond as you deluded unionists mistakenly think.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    Will there be any late night results on telly, worth watching, next Thursday?

    Yes, lots of local elections are counting. Activists will be tied up watching the verification of the Euro ballots to give an impression of what's happening so we can all rehearse of jubilation/evasions.

    I continue to think the Euro poll is the most dramatic - the others are actually consistent with the tiny Labour leads in YouGov because of methodological isuses. The Euro one is very striking and we could do with another to confirm or vary it.

    O/T: quite a funny piece this morning on climate change:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/12/john-oliver-climate-change-deniers_n_5311401.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-comedy&ir=UK+Comedy

    Not surprising Nick. Only comedians believe the climate change alarmists these days.
    A majority of the UK population are not comedians, and yet still trust the climate scientists. Though I've come across a couple of climate scientists who are capable of telling a good joke, I wouldn't have said it was a particularly common trait within the profession.
    I wasn't claiming they were very good comedians. Just that their quasi-religious beliefs are a joke.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Thanks Malcolm - I was jesting of course, I'll wait until at least 10. I knew you weren't all bad.
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382

    Freggles said:

    macisback said:

    Ed on the radio this morning, speaking in a new strange tone and voice. Cost of living crisis and NHS crisis on his agenda. Surely if he is to go big on NHS he needs to rid Burnham SHARPLY.

    Any evidence to back this up? Labour has a twelve point lead on the nhs
    The NHS is labours safety blanket. If they're going hard on this it mean they have nothing left.
    No - it's been in the planned grid for weeks.

    Why didn't Ed shift Burnham then, a real error of leadership judgement there. Failiure to go with conviction and make the tough right decision.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_P said:

    saddened said:


    I know I'll regret this but here goes

    Did Eck say he would stop fishing boats transiting Scottish waters?

    Or

    Did Eck say he would stop them fishing in Scottish waters?


    Which of the two options would he have the power to legally enforce?


    He said "access to"

    That is arguably ambiguous as to whether he meant transit, or fishing, but is unambiguously bollocks either way.

    He can't stop anyone fishing in another country's territorial waters, and he can't stop other countries transiting through Scottish waters.

    He is a Numpty. He made a mistake. Smarter Nats will keep quiet
    . Scotland out of the EU = argument lapses, Norwegians will keep EU boats out of their waters themselves.
    And Salmond knows this because?

    Once again, after a "currency union" and "automatic EU membership" Salmond pronounces on something else that is not within Scotland's gift.....

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Me, the larger part of the UK population also want to leave the EU and bring back hanging.

    On scientists - the scientific method is the best we have, but I have relatively little faith in those proponents of climate change, which was called global warming. They've stopped calling it that, to try and reduce the number of people who might realise that their warming forecasts are completely wrong.

    The hockey stick was a work of fiction, and there are very serious questions over other climate-related data (the e-mail scandal in East Anglia).

    Meanwhile, the IPCC got its temperature forecasts wrong, and then upgraded its confidence in climate change from 90% to 95%. If I go out to a bar, ask out 10 women, get slapped 10 times, go home and write in my diary "I am 95% certain I am a studmuffin" anyone else reading that would think me an idiot (and an ugly one), and they'd be right.

    A PhD is not a free pass from scrutiny or cause for everyone who doesn't have a lab coat to suspend their critical faculties. Scientists can and do make mistakes, and anyone who dislikes scepticism doesn't understand the scientific approach because scepticism is the starting point. It isn't up to sceptics to prove anything wrong, but those who have a theory to prove it right or, if it is proven wrong, to either abandon it or update it so that it fits the latest data available.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:


    The point is that the access to Norwegian waters is a reciprocal EU arrangement which depends on Norwegian access to Scots waters.

    No, it isn't. Access to Norwegian waters is guaranteed by International Law
    For fishing rights, it isn't - which is the point (I have already amended my post to reflect this omission).
    So to be clear, you believe that Scotland will have the right to prevent other nations boats transiting Scottish waters enroute to fish Norwegian waters?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    And Salmond knows this because?

    Once again, after a "currency union" and "automatic EU membership" Salmond pronounces on something else that is not within Scotland's gift.....

    To the true believers, Eck is Omnipotent and Omniscient. A bit like a God...
  • Freggles said:

    macisback said:

    Ed on the radio this morning, speaking in a new strange tone and voice. Cost of living crisis and NHS crisis on his agenda. Surely if he is to go big on NHS he needs to rid Burnham SHARPLY.

    Any evidence to back this up? Labour has a twelve point lead on the nhs
    The NHS is labours safety blanket. If they're going hard on this it mean they have nothing left.
    No - it's been in the planned grid for weeks.
    What? EdM/D Alexander's brilliant campaign plan is to run with the NHS in the middle of the European elections? Great stuff. I thought NickMP was nailed on to regain Broxtowe but I am now starting to doubt that certainty.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Scott_P said:

    And Salmond knows this because?

    Once again, after a "currency union" and "automatic EU membership" Salmond pronounces on something else that is not within Scotland's gift.....

    To the true believers, Eck is Omnipotent and Omniscient. A bit like a God...
    Eck has made a cult of himself.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    saddened said:

    ll have the right to prevent other nations boats transiting Scottish waters enroute to fish Norwegian waters?

    No, the case they are pushing now is that Scotland can prevent other nation's boats fishing when they get to Norwegian waters.

    It's only slightly more barking than the original interpretation.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    saddened said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:


    The point is that the access to Norwegian waters is a reciprocal EU arrangement which depends on Norwegian access to Scots waters.

    No, it isn't. Access to Norwegian waters is guaranteed by International Law
    For fishing rights, it isn't - which is the point (I have already amended my post to reflect this omission).
    So to be clear, you believe that Scotland will have the right to prevent other nations boats transiting Scottish waters enroute to fish Norwegian waters?
    No, not in the least. But the Norwegians will most certainly stop them fishing when they get there, if their EU agreement lapses because Scotland is excluded from the EU.


  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Mr. Carnyx, you stated her policies and their impact were a factor in low Scottish life expectancy. All else is dancing on the head of a pin.

    I don't think anyone here's claimed Brown's insane pensions tax-grabbing (though universally reviled) caused a decline in life expectancy. There's a curious level of hatred for Thatcher that's quite pathological amongst certain groups. The Yorkshire miners celebrating her death was particularly despicable.

    MD, you seem to infer that we cherish Brown in Scotland. You are sadly mistaken , the buffoon was as bad as Thatcher. Two cheeks of the same arse to my mind.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_P said:

    saddened said:


    I know I'll regret this but here goes

    Did Eck say he would stop fishing boats transiting Scottish waters?

    Or

    Did Eck say he would stop them fishing in Scottish waters?


    Which of the two options would he have the power to legally enforce?


    He said "access to"

    That is arguably ambiguous as to whether he meant transit, or fishing, but is unambiguously bollocks either way.

    He can't stop anyone fishing in another country's territorial waters, and he can't stop other countries transiting through Scottish waters.

    He is a Numpty. He made a mistake. Smarter Nats will keep quiet
    . Scotland out of the EU = argument lapses, Norwegians will keep EU boats out of their waters themselves.
    And Salmond knows this because?

    Once again, after a "currency union" and "automatic EU membership" Salmond pronounces on something else that is not within Scotland's gift.....

    What he said was the EU boats wouldn't have formal access for fishing if the agreement lapsed.

    It's my assumption that (unless a new agreement is made, but this time without the carrot of Scottish waters) the Norwegians will not want to allow boats without formal access rights to fish. Most countries do police their EEZ's, after all.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Interesting story about Darling's sacking.

    I wonder if that buried poll we heard of showing the Nats in with a shout could be behind this? Whatever, with the Tory Renaissance in the polls, keeping the union together is going to be ever harder.

    @Carlotta - you are right. While supporters of the three main parties tear their hair out at their own leaders' inadequacies, Kippers and Nats see their leaders as messiahs. In many ways though, that's what makes them such tricky and at times formidable opponents.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    JBriskin said:

    Lol - Carnyx resorting to English. Yes do seem a bit desperate today. Perhaps they shouldn't base their ideology and thinking on what other people (they want to make foreign) do.

    Brisket, you have had too much tipple already. We are just happy jolly people, unlike NO people who are sad and have little to be happy about. Check out the dire posts of doom and gloom from them on here. YES is for Hope , NO is for NO Hope.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    malcolmg said:

    Mr. Carnyx, you stated her policies and their impact were a factor in low Scottish life expectancy. All else is dancing on the head of a pin.

    I don't think anyone here's claimed Brown's insane pensions tax-grabbing (though universally reviled) caused a decline in life expectancy. There's a curious level of hatred for Thatcher that's quite pathological amongst certain groups. The Yorkshire miners celebrating her death was particularly despicable.

    MD, you seem to infer that we cherish Brown in Scotland. You are sadly mistaken , the buffoon was as bad as Thatcher. Two cheeks of the same arse to my mind.
    History shows that Brown crushed the SNP in the 2010 GE.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Carnyx said:

    the Norwegians will most certainly stop them fishing when they get there

    The Scots will dictate Norwegian fisheries policy.

    You couldn't make it up (well actually it appears you could)
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Something not commented on re the Budget (I think) is the political / savings calendar he's laid out to secure GenerationSaver.

    These are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.

    June 14 - Premium Bonds limit increases for first time in ages (much loved product by grey vote)

    July 14 - ISA limit increases massively & crucially all can go in to Cash, great for all savers

    August 14 - Premium Bond £1m prize increases to 2 a month

    Jan 15 - NS&I Pensioners pre-election Bond (paying well above market rates in interest)

    April 15 - Lambho time for all pensioners (not .....but the flexibility is welcome).

    May 15 - GE

    TBA 15 - Premium Bonds limit increases again
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Reassuring advice for World Cup tourists:
    don't scream if mugged, as you might get killed, and don't ever go outside with anything expensive that can be seen as you may be robbed.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-27373457
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Will Nigel and Ed both have to quit if Dave wins the Euros?
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    I'm looking forward to the politics of the Pensioners Bond especially....
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Carnyx said:

    saddened said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:


    The point is that the access to Norwegian waters is a reciprocal EU arrangement which depends on Norwegian access to Scots waters.

    No, it isn't. Access to Norwegian waters is guaranteed by International Law
    For fishing rights, it isn't - which is the point (I have already amended my post to reflect this omission).
    So to be clear, you believe that Scotland will have the right to prevent other nations boats transiting Scottish waters enroute to fish Norwegian waters?
    No, not in the least. But the Norwegians will most certainly stop them fishing when they get there, if their EU agreement lapses because Scotland is excluded from the EU.


    So That's an admission Scotland will not have automatic right to be a member of the EU which blows a different hole in Salmond' s pronouncements.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Scots increasingly sick of Salmond;

    “Alex Salmond has become a liability for the Yes Camp because of the dishonest and arrogant way he has put forward his case,” he said. “It is clear that many people do not believe a word the First Minister says and are angry that he has put his referendum before the running of the country.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond-become-liability-yes-3533466

    How fitting that Monica quotes from the Daily Retard
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Eagles, no, and it's hugely unlikely. Still reckon UKIP will win, although second and third seem less certain now. Second and third could be close, as could fourth and fifth. If Clegg loses to the Greens...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_P said:

    saddened said:


    I know I'll regret this but here goes

    Did Eck say he would stop fishing boats transiting Scottish waters?

    Or

    Did Eck say he would stop them fishing in Scottish waters?


    Which of the two options would he have the power to legally enforce?


    He said "access to"

    That is arguably ambiguous as to whether he meant transit, or fishing, but is unambiguously bollocks either way.

    He can't stop anyone fishing in another country's territorial waters, and he can't stop other countries transiting through Scottish waters.

    He is a Numpty. He made a mistake. Smarter Nats will keep quiet
    The point is that the access to Norwegian waters is a reciprocal EU arrangement which depends on Norwegian access to Scots waters. Scotland out of the EU = argument lapses, Norwegians will keep EU boats out of their waters themselves. Nothing to do with Mr S (and you are doing the old personalization thing again BTW - Eck, Numpty, and so on and so forth.)

    Edit: the above is of course for fishing rights, not transit. Sorry.
    He has a fixation with Mr Salmond, not healthy.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Carnyx said:

    Scots increasingly sick of Salmond;

    “Alex Salmond has become a liability for the Yes Camp because of the dishonest and arrogant way he has put forward his case,” he said. “It is clear that many people do not believe a word the First Minister says and are angry that he has put his referendum before the running of the country.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond-become-liability-yes-3533466

    Carnyx said:

    Mr. Carnyx, impressive of Thatcher to kill Scots over 20 years after leaving office whilst at the same time being dead.

    Mr. StClare, Miliband is perfectly safe (as Labour leader). Too late to axe, and the most obvious replacement is a serial traffic offender.

    I'm thinking in particular of the peripheral housing estates and high-rises.
    How many of them were built in the 80s? And was Westminster or the local council responsible? The housing scheme (as they were called) I grew up in was built in the early 60s.

    50s, 60s, to some extent the 70s, that sort of time (and quite a few prewar, though obviously not high rise or so far out).

    Quite. So nothing at all to do with Thatcher.

    Of course we forget that for the people at the time, when the schemes started, these houses were an amazing leap forward from what they had been used to. As time went on, they were not.

    http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/iatl/reinvention/issues/volume1issue1/paice/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Toms said:

    Will there be any late night results on telly, worth watching, next Thursday?

    [cut]
    O/T: quite a funny piece this morning on climate change:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/12/john-oliver-climate-change-deniers_n_5311401.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-comedy&ir=UK+Comedy
    It's funny Nick. The broader issue of course, is living wisely. Might as well try mordant humour. But judging by our continuing and expanding consumerism I can't see to what the word "alarmist", I sometimes hear, relates.
    Living wisely/addressing expanding consumerism = stopping short of course of not using my own computer to post on the internet whenever I want.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Will Nigel and Ed both have to quit if Dave wins the Euros?

    I'll be voting for Dave, now I'll be winning that wheelbarrow of cash from 365 and Winner.com it has put these Euros into a whole new perspective.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Scott_P said:

    And Salmond knows this because?

    Once again, after a "currency union" and "automatic EU membership" Salmond pronounces on something else that is not within Scotland's gift.....

    To the true believers, Eck is Omnipotent and Omniscient. A bit like a God...
    Eck has made a cult of himself.
    I suspect that has been auto corrected ;)
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