Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
This should be media training in how not to deal with UKIP
Poor UKIP, even the BNP are attacking them in their election broadcast.
The biggest thing which UKIP will do is UKIPise the tory party going forward.. there is no way which any future leader of the tories will be able to resist taking on and adopting some/most of UKIPs arguements.
If UKIP can do well enough before the next Tory leader emerges then it is possible such a strategy would fail, as any attempt to steal UKIP's clothing would run the risk of looking insincere, people would wonder why they shouldn't just vote for the real UKIP, rather than the UKIP-lite Tories, and it would alienate existing Tory support in the centre.
Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
This should be media training in how not to deal with UKIP
Poor UKIP, even the BNP are attacking them in their election broadcast.
Thank God UKIP have turned up to steer people away from them.
Can see why the poor & uneducated were tempted, but the difference is that UKIP stand up for British people of all hues, without a sinister undertone of race hate and white superiority while offering a middle way of controlled immigration rather than the extremes of the Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems (uncontrolled) on one side and the BNP (none) on the other.
What is UKIP's policy on penguins?
Ed Miliband going on the UKIP=Thatcherism line which is an interesting form of attack.
Ah let him carry on, plenty of working class voters supported Thatcher.
Honestly I believe the best way of defeating UKIP would be for the other parties to give positive examples to vote for them rather than scaremongering about UKIP... the negative approach simply isn't working, look at the polls/betting.
This reminds me of a controlling boyfriend that wont let an unhappy partner leave, and so slags off every other bloke in the area.. would be better off accepting it and giving reasons to stay/examples of how they've changed
The other three parties are playing such a short game here, smacks of desperation.. long may it continue
Eh, people have always said that about negative campaigning and it's still done because it still works to an extent.
It's more that campaigns generally have a limited effect (imho) in changing how most people vote at the election.
Dyedwoolie prediction update GE, Lab largest party, 15 short, 20 ahead, Miliband PM of minority government, election in 12 months, movement to Labour on back of flatlining Tory share in polls Indy No 52, Yes 48, no movement Euros, UKIP 30ish and winners, Lab and Tory in the low twenties
Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
This should be media training in how not to deal with UKIP
Poor UKIP, even the BNP are attacking them in their election broadcast.
I've just baxtered this latest poll, as if it were for a Westminster General Election.
It produces these results:
Labour: 213 Lib Dems: 9 UKIP: 380 Tories: 21
O, how a small, mean part of me would laugh, very hard, if that actually happened.
By God, there would be some rum characters elected for UKIP if that happened. Probably have about a hundred by-elections a year...!
(...which I would not want to make sound like a bad thing. Not on Political Betting....)
I have been struck by the comments along the lines of UKIP = Millwall, "...and we don't care." But surely it is more a case of a large chunk of the voters - a really large chunk - who are saying they are Millwall, and in UKIP finding someone to support....
Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
This should be media training in how not to deal with UKIP
Poor UKIP, even the BNP are attacking them in their election broadcast.
This sort of thing from the EU is the Europhobes best hope of getting out of the EU. Admittedly I've only talked to a few people about it, but none, even the vaguely Europhillic, were in favour of it.
The more they do this sort of stupidity, the more likely I am to jump off the fence.
Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
This should be media training in how not to deal with UKIP
Poor UKIP, even the BNP are attacking them in their election broadcast.
Thank God UKIP have turned up to steer people away from them.
Can see why the poor & uneducated were tempted, but the difference is that UKIP stand up for British people of all hues, without a sinister undertone of race hate and white superiority while offering a middle way of controlled immigration rather than the extremes of the Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems (uncontrolled) on one side and the BNP (none) on the other.
What is UKIP's policy on penguins?
Ed Miliband going on the UKIP=Thatcherism line which is an interesting form of attack.
Ah let him carry on, plenty of working class voters supported Thatcher.
Honestly I believe the best way of defeating UKIP would be for the other parties to give positive examples to vote for them rather than scaremongering about UKIP... the negative approach simply isn't working, look at the polls/betting.
This reminds me of a controlling boyfriend that wont let an unhappy partner leave, and so slags off every other bloke in the area.. would be better off accepting it and giving reasons to stay/examples of how they've changed
The other three parties are playing such a short game here, smacks of desperation.. long may it continue
Eh, people have always said that about negative campaigning and it's still done because it still works to an extent.
It's more that campaigns generally have a limited effect (imho) in changing how most people vote at the election.
I voted for jimmy Goldsmiths party in 1997 much to my shame. I am toying with a screw it, join the party fun vote at the Euros. Just to see Cam and Ed implode. It might do some good. The counter argument is making the world according to Nigel a self-fulfilling prophecy
Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
This should be media training in how not to deal with UKIP
Poor UKIP, even the BNP are attacking them in their election broadcast.
Thank God UKIP have turned up to steer people away from them.
Can see why the poor & uneducated were tempted, but the difference is that UKIP stand up for British people of all hues, without a sinister undertone of race hate and white superiority while offering a middle way of controlled immigration rather than the extremes of the Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems (uncontrolled) on one side and the BNP (none) on the other.
What is UKIP's policy on penguins?
Ed Miliband going on the UKIP=Thatcherism line which is an interesting form of attack.
Ah let him carry on, plenty of working class voters supported Thatcher.
Honestly I believe the best way of defeating UKIP would be for the other parties to give positive examples to vote for them rather than scaremongering about UKIP... the negative approach simply isn't working, look at the polls/betting.
This reminds me of a controlling boyfriend that wont let an unhappy partner leave, and so slags off every other bloke in the area.. would be better off accepting it and giving reasons to stay/examples of how they've changed
The other three parties are playing such a short game here, smacks of desperation.. long may it continue
Eh, people have always said that about negative campaigning and it's still done because it still works to an extent.
It's more that campaigns generally have a limited effect (imho) in changing how most people vote at the election.
Well it aint working this time!
No, because outside of the big cities, there is a growing feeling of 'I don't recognise my country anymore' but no one is allowed to ask why, or debate it, or question it. Therefore when the establishment attack UKIP as racist, they are tacitly telling small town and rural UK it is racist and to suck it up. It's a daft move. The country is changing, very fast, a chance to discuss that is essential and is, in the main, the reason for UKIPs rise. 'Theyre doing stuff again Gladys, and things are happening (meaning the government/establishment)' it's the unease that we have lost control of the ability to even understand our little island home.
Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
This should be media training in how not to deal with UKIP
Poor UKIP, even the BNP are attacking them in their election broadcast.
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
Labour can always rely on the keeping up with the Jones vote. By dint of their crafty stealing from the Jones and giving it to the lazy policies
There's this guy who jogs past about once a week, and the funny thing is that he must be about 75 now, but he carries on jogging as if he was 50 years younger. I usually wave to him as he goes past, and he sort of waves back in a desultory fashion, even though I've never actually met him.
There's this guy who jogs past about once a week, and the funny thing is that he must be about 75 now, but he carries on jogging as if he was 50 years younger. I usually wave to him as he goes past, and he sort of waves back in a desultory fashion, even though I've never actually met him.
It's like Sleepless in Seattle with colostomy bags. Sexy.
My goodness. What the other big parties really need to do now is go all in on presenting themselves as one establishment front, and scream "racist" even louder. That'll work wonders.
Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
Good God man! Why don't you just come out and say things?!
Go on then, what is Nigel Farage's definition of race?
As previously discussed, Farage claimed he was the victim of anti-English racism in Scotland. If Roche is wrong, so is he - as you said when we debated it before.
I've watched a bit of that BNP broadcast without sound...
Can someone explain the BNP's policy on penguins arriving at Heathrow - do they need to use the EU or non EU queue ?
As the only northern hemisphere penguins are literally just a few miles over in the northern Galapagos Islands, I think we can safely say the non-EU queue....
There's this guy who jogs past about once a week, and the funny thing is that he must be about 75 now, but he carries on jogging as if he was 50 years younger. I usually wave to him as he goes past, and he sort of waves back in a desultory fashion, even though I've never actually met him.
There was an old fella like that in Great Shelford / Trumpington seven or so years ago. He'd be out at the same time every day, come rain or shine. If we were walking past we'd nod hello, and he'd do the same. I shudder to think how many miles he got under his belt.
We haven't seen him for years, and we always wonder what's happened to him.
I've watched a bit of that BNP broadcast without sound...
Can someone explain the BNP's policy on penguins arriving at Heathrow - do they need to use the EU or non EU queue ?
As the only northern hemisphere penguins are literally just a few miles over in the northern Galapagos Islands, I think we can safely say the non-EU queue....
What about the ones coming from a French zoo ? Will the more recent immigrant penguins try and drive them out of the country ?
I've watched a bit of that BNP broadcast without sound...
Can someone explain the BNP's policy on penguins arriving at Heathrow - do they need to use the EU or non EU queue ?
As the only northern hemisphere penguins are literally just a few miles over in the northern Galapagos Islands, I think we can safely say the non-EU queue....
The white penguins get an ANZAC working visa and Someone shoots the black ones? I'm still confused
I've watched a bit of that BNP broadcast without sound...
Can someone explain the BNP's policy on penguins arriving at Heathrow - do they need to use the EU or non EU queue ?
As the only northern hemisphere penguins are literally just a few miles over in the northern Galapagos Islands, I think we can safely say the non-EU queue....
What about the ones coming from a French zoo ? Will the more recent immigrant penguins try and drive them out of the country ?
Fourth generation UK penguins have been heard to mutter that we would be mad, literally mad, to allow unfettered Penguin access
As I posted a few days ago I think most polling on anything other than the Euros and SInd is pretty meaningless for now. The UKIP bubble is unstoppable and distorting all else. Whether this lasts much beyond next month is, I think, unlikely. I expect the Tory share to recover a lot, Labour a little and the LDs less. Where that all leaves us, heaven only knows.
I should add that I agree wholeheartedly that the Establishment/Media attacks on UKIP have been as wrong as they could be - Clegg started it with the silly debates but no-one seems to have got the message and the UKIP 'itch' will only go away when people stop scratching it.
As I posted a few days ago I think most polling on anything other than the Euros and SInd is pretty meaningless for now. The UKIP bubble is unstoppable and distorting all else. Whether this lasts much beyond next month is, I think, unlikely. I expect the Tory share to recover a lot, Labour a little and the LDs less. Where that all leaves us, heaven only knows.
It will take a little longer I think. Into the summer recess and conference season, then we should start to get a flavour of where the land lies. Probably something like 36/36/12/10 (Con/Lab/UKIP/LIB)
Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
Good God man! Why don't you just come out and say things?!
Go on then, what is Nigel Farage's definition of race?
As previously discussed, Farage claimed he was the victim of anti-English racism in Scotland. If Roche is wrong, so is he - as you said when we debated it before.
Oh yeah, he was wrong to say that. Anyone who says people of the same race can be racist towards each other is wrong, its nonsense
The difference is that Farage's was an off the cuff remark, while Roche and the people that she is in cahoots with, have formed a policy unit on the back of it
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
We wouldn't all be poorer with slightly less wealth and a much more even income distribution would we? Think about it.
As I posted a few days ago I think most polling on anything other than the Euros and SInd is pretty meaningless for now. The UKIP bubble is unstoppable and distorting all else. Whether this lasts much beyond next month is, I think, unlikely. I expect the Tory share to recover a lot, Labour a little and the LDs less. Where that all leaves us, heaven only knows.
Agreed. It's clear UKIP is going to do very well in May. The aftermath of that is what will be really important - how much support UKIP retains for the GE. As an avowedly neo-liberal, Thatcherite party there's a lot about UKIP for the left to attack without having to scream racist. For the Tories, the task is trickier. How many Tories can convincingly argue against what Farage and other UKIP leaders say they believe in? Racist loony fruitcakes may be all the Tories have.
Matthew Goodwin on BBC DP backing up my thinking when I devised my UKIP target list last year... What is needed is a two or possibly three way marginal, and I would add, where the UKIP /BNP vote was in excess of 7-8% in 2010
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
We wouldn't all be poorer with slightly less wealth and a much more even income distribution would we? Think about it.
Absolutely. The more you work, the wealthier those that shirk. Success is evil, and must be punished to provide IPhones for the fifth child of workless families. It's the kindest thing to do.
Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
This should be media training in how not to deal with UKIP
Poor UKIP, even the BNP are attacking them in their election broadcast.
'the difference is that UKIP stand up for British people of all hues...'
... who don't like dem foreigners.
What's wonderful about this new cross-party anti-UKIP campaign is that its headed by someone with your sort of mentality. We get it so much on here, it's rather wonderful that we get to highlight it on a national broadcaster, and then the great British public can make their own conclusions.
Patrick O'Flynn @oflynndirector 51s Jim Murphy challenged on whether Lab may reopen no referendum stance if Ukip wins the Euros: "l'm not going to speculate.'
As I posted a few days ago I think most polling on anything other than the Euros and SInd is pretty meaningless for now. The UKIP bubble is unstoppable and distorting all else. Whether this lasts much beyond next month is, I think, unlikely. I expect the Tory share to recover a lot, Labour a little and the LDs less. Where that all leaves us, heaven only knows.
Agreed. It's clear UKIP is going to do very well in May. The aftermath of that is what will be really important - how much support UKIP retains for the GE. As an avowedly neo-liberal, Thatcherite party there's a lot about UKIP for the left to attack without having to scream racist. For the Tories, the task is trickier. How many Tories can convincingly argue against what Farage and other UKIP leaders say they believe in? Racist loony fruitcakes may be all the Tories have.
They will be assaulted on the basis of no coherent platform for government and being Eds bag boys for number 10. If that isn't enough, the UK will get what it deserves. And the work shy will get what they don't.
I should add that I agree wholeheartedly that the Establishment/Media attacks on UKIP have been as wrong as they could be - Clegg started it with the silly debates but no-one seems to have got the message and the UKIP 'itch' will only go away when people stop scratching it.
Clegg's debate move - least he had the cojones to do it.
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
We wouldn't all be poorer with slightly less wealth and a much more even income distribution would we? Think about it.
Absolutely. The more you work, the wealthier those that shirk. Success is evil, and must be punished to provide IPhones for the fifth child of workless families. It's the kindest thing to do.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Blimey, I point out a mathematic possibility and you come out with this.
The sad thing about many that comment on politics is that they can't accept a valid truth if it weakens their own argument, and also assume that anyone making it must be an extremist for the other side.
The biggest thing which UKIP will do is UKIPise the tory party going forward.. there is no way which any future leader of the tories will be able to resist taking on and adopting some/most of UKIPs arguements.
Whilst subjecting us to 5 years of Ed Miliband ?
Thanks Nige.
If they really wanted to get MPs and influence the Con party they would stand down in Eurosceptic Tory Mp seats - and focus on say 50-100 of the wettest candidate seats (inc Ken Clarke).
That they don't suggests it really is all about the cult of Nigel.
They stood down in seats last time and all it did was make the Tories feel less threatened. If UKIP are seen to cost the Tories an election and threaten to do it again what Tory leader could make anything other than an unbreakable referendum pledge or dare break it?
Which seats did they stand down in , can you post a link to the Ukip announcement of this and which Europhiliac Con seats did they target ?
Matthew Goodwin on BBC DP backing up my thinking when I devised my UKIP target list last year... What is needed is a two or possibly three way marginal, and I would add, where the UKIP /BNP vote was in excess of 7-8% in 2010
Was Newark in your third choice list "Worth a fiver" out of interest. I'm on at 50-1 for £5 in Norwich North of those.
As I posted a few days ago I think most polling on anything other than the Euros and SInd is pretty meaningless for now. The UKIP bubble is unstoppable and distorting all else. Whether this lasts much beyond next month is, I think, unlikely. I expect the Tory share to recover a lot, Labour a little and the LDs less. Where that all leaves us, heaven only knows.
Agreed. It's clear UKIP is going to do very well in May. The aftermath of that is what will be really important - how much support UKIP retains for the GE. As an avowedly neo-liberal, Thatcherite party there's a lot about UKIP for the left to attack without having to scream racist. For the Tories, the task is trickier. How many Tories can convincingly argue against what Farage and other UKIP leaders say they believe in? Racist loony fruitcakes may be all the Tories have.
I'd be delighted to have a debate with Labour about what sort of economy works better: the pre-Thatcher economy or the post-Thatcher one. We'll get a good glimpse of the former if Ed Miliband brings in all his announced policies after 2015.
Matthew Goodwin on BBC DP backing up my thinking when I devised my UKIP target list last year... What is needed is a two or possibly three way marginal, and I would add, where the UKIP /BNP vote was in excess of 7-8% in 2010
Was Newark in your third choice list "Worth a fiver" out of interest. I'm on at 50-1 for £5 in Norwich North of those.
It wasn't.. I think it was because there is no UKIP base and the Tories were so far clear in 2010
Patrick O'Flynn @oflynndirector 51s Jim Murphy challenged on whether Lab may reopen no referendum stance if Ukip wins the Euros: "l'm not going to speculate.'
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
We wouldn't all be poorer with slightly less wealth and a much more even income distribution would we? Think about it.
Absolutely. The more you work, the wealthier those that shirk. Success is evil, and must be punished to provide IPhones for the fifth child of workless families. It's the kindest thing to do.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Blimey, I point out a mathematic possibility and you come out with this.
The sad thing about many that comment on politics is that they can't accept a valid truth if it weakens their own argument, and also assume that anyone making it must be an extremist for the other side.
I'm merely pointing out the result of the mathematical possibility you mention. It's not an attack on you or your politics.
Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
Good God man! Why don't you just come out and say things?!
Go on then, what is Nigel Farage's definition of race?
As previously discussed, Farage claimed he was the victim of anti-English racism in Scotland. If Roche is wrong, so is he - as you said when we debated it before.
Oh yeah, he was wrong to say that. Anyone who says people of the same race can be racist towards each other is wrong, its nonsense
The difference is that Farage's was an off the cuff remark, while Roche and the people that she is in cahoots with, have formed a policy unit on the back of it
Matthew Goodwin on BBC DP backing up my thinking when I devised my UKIP target list last year... What is needed is a two or possibly three way marginal, and I would add, where the UKIP /BNP vote was in excess of 7-8% in 2010
Was Newark in your third choice list "Worth a fiver" out of interest. I'm on at 50-1 for £5 in Norwich North of those.
A good value bet. All down to whether UKIP can also squeeze Labour, rather than letting them in through the middle.
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
We wouldn't all be poorer with slightly less wealth and a much more even income distribution would we? Think about it.
Absolutely. The more you work, the wealthier those that shirk. Success is evil, and must be punished to provide IPhones for the fifth child of workless families. It's the kindest thing to do.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Blimey, I point out a mathematic possibility and you come out with this.
The sad thing about many that comment on politics is that they can't accept a valid truth if it weakens their own argument, and also assume that anyone making it must be an extremist for the other side.
I'm merely pointing out the result of the mathematical possibility you mention. It's not an attack on you or your politics.
One can desire a more equal society without providing iphones for the fifth child of workless families. Perhaps people feel that those at the top should earn only ten times that of those in the middle, rather than hundreds of times as much?
I should add that I agree wholeheartedly that the Establishment/Media attacks on UKIP have been as wrong as they could be - Clegg started it with the silly debates but no-one seems to have got the message and the UKIP 'itch' will only go away when people stop scratching it.
Clegg's debate move - least he had the cojones to do it.
He did it because he thought it would be a no-lose situation for him. Oops.
Patrick O'Flynn @oflynndirector 51s Jim Murphy challenged on whether Lab may reopen no referendum stance if Ukip wins the Euros: "l'm not going to speculate.'
I make it 50/50....
In tim's defence - he was usually prepared to back his predictions with money (and pay up when he lost).
"Being really serious, how do you manage retirement?"
By setting your expectations appropriately. It's a time to read all the books you never had time for before, to take that hobby seriously, to try new things occasionally, and to go abroad without having to do a job or give a paper at a conference.
You lose waking up with new ideas or having people listen to you because of who you are or because of your expertise. You become on old git and can say what you want when you want, and you don't care if they think you're talking bollocks (which I often am).
Oh, and you can visit people you want to keep in touch with and advise the kids (knowing they won't take a blind bit of notice).
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
We wouldn't all be poorer with slightly less wealth and a much more even income distribution would we? Think about it.
Absolutely. The more you work, the wealthier those that shirk. Success is evil, and must be punished to provide IPhones for the fifth child of workless families. It's the kindest thing to do.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Blimey, I point out a mathematic possibility and you come out with this.
The sad thing about many that comment on politics is that they can't accept a valid truth if it weakens their own argument, and also assume that anyone making it must be an extremist for the other side.
I'm merely pointing out the result of the mathematical possibility you mention. It's not an attack on you or your politics.
One can desire a more equal society without providing iphones for the fifth child of workless families. Perhaps people feel that those at the top should earn only ten times that of those in the middle, rather than hundreds of times as much?
Redistribution would be more palatable if it were taken from tax avoiding corporations, individual wealth through earnings should not IMHO be taken to support those who earn less. Shrinking the state and thereby shrinking the tax take at the lower end is another way of redistributing that would be less obscene to my fiscally hard right eyes
As I posted a few days ago I think most polling on anything other than the Euros and SInd is pretty meaningless for now. The UKIP bubble is unstoppable and distorting all else. Whether this lasts much beyond next month is, I think, unlikely. I expect the Tory share to recover a lot, Labour a little and the LDs less. Where that all leaves us, heaven only knows.
Agreed. It's clear UKIP is going to do very well in May. The aftermath of that is what will be really important - how much support UKIP retains for the GE. As an avowedly neo-liberal, Thatcherite party there's a lot about UKIP for the left to attack without having to scream racist. For the Tories, the task is trickier. How many Tories can convincingly argue against what Farage and other UKIP leaders say they believe in? Racist loony fruitcakes may be all the Tories have.
I'd be delighted to have a debate with Labour about what sort of economy works better: the pre-Thatcher economy or the post-Thatcher one. We'll get a good glimpse of the former if Ed Miliband brings in all his announced policies after 2015.
Absolutely. And Labour would welcome such a debate with UKIP too. What's the Tory line though?
Barbara Roche on Newsnight yesterday seemed to have a strange definition of the word "racist". As far as I know, Romanians aren't a different race to British people.
It's no stranger than Nigel Farage's definition of race.
Good God man! Why don't you just come out and say things?!
Go on then, what is Nigel Farage's definition of race?
As previously discussed, Farage claimed he was the victim of anti-English racism in Scotland. If Roche is wrong, so is he - as you said when we debated it before.
Oh yeah, he was wrong to say that. Anyone who says people of the same race can be racist towards each other is wrong, its nonsense
The difference is that Farage's was an off the cuff remark, while Roche and the people that she is in cahoots with, have formed a policy unit on the back of it
As I posted a few days ago I think most polling on anything other than the Euros and SInd is pretty meaningless for now. The UKIP bubble is unstoppable and distorting all else. Whether this lasts much beyond next month is, I think, unlikely. I expect the Tory share to recover a lot, Labour a little and the LDs less. Where that all leaves us, heaven only knows.
Agreed. It's clear UKIP is going to do very well in May. The aftermath of that is what will be really important - how much support UKIP retains for the GE. As an avowedly neo-liberal, Thatcherite party there's a lot about UKIP for the left to attack without having to scream racist. For the Tories, the task is trickier. How many Tories can convincingly argue against what Farage and other UKIP leaders say they believe in? Racist loony fruitcakes may be all the Tories have.
I'd be delighted to have a debate with Labour about what sort of economy works better: the pre-Thatcher economy or the post-Thatcher one. We'll get a good glimpse of the former if Ed Miliband brings in all his announced policies after 2015.
Absolutely. And Labour would welcome such a debate with UKIP too. What's the Tory line though?
I think the Tory line is that Sunny Jims dreams of a second world economy fled in the early 80s and aren't keen to come back
It's worth remembering that for Thatcherites in the 80s and 90s the enemy within was a big section of the white working class. UKIP may well already have the always strong Tory working class vote in the bag. Immigration will get them tea and sympathy in many EnglishLabour heartlands, but there's a lot of economic stuff stuff that will repel. To get real GE votes UKIP needs to think that through.
4/6 UKIP to outpoll the Tories in the Euros...now 2/11
I seriously considered £6000 to win £4000, and while I dithered the price went.
The UKIP-Lab-Con tricast now 4/5, hope someone got on, again I didnt
The tricast looks nailed, Tories will be trying to poll towards 24 and within a couple of points of Labour to feel less stressed about 2015. Almost time to let the UKIP bandwagon roll on and concentrate fire on the left, with both eyes on 2015.
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
We wouldn't all be poorer with slightly less wealth and a much more even income distribution would we? Think about it.
Absolutely. The more you work, the wealthier those that shirk. Success is evil, and must be punished to provide IPhones for the fifth child of workless families. It's the kindest thing to do.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Blimey, I point out a mathematic possibility and you come out with this.
The sad thing about many that comment on politics is that they can't accept a valid truth if it weakens their own argument, and also assume that anyone making it must be an extremist for the other side.
I'm merely pointing out the result of the mathematical possibility you mention. It's not an attack on you or your politics.
It's possible to be in favour of reducing the income disparity between cleaner's and CEOs even if it results in CEOs not working as hard and the country as a whole being a bit poorer, because doing so would increase the majority of working people's income.
Unfortunately I'm falling into the same trap as Socrates in believing that Mathematics and Rationality has any place in a political discourse swamped by disingenuous soundbites.
Matthew Goodwin on BBC DP backing up my thinking when I devised my UKIP target list last year... What is needed is a two or possibly three way marginal, and I would add, where the UKIP /BNP vote was in excess of 7-8% in 2010
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
We wouldn't all be poorer with slightly less wealth and a much more even income distribution would we? Think about it.
Absolutely. The more you work, the wealthier those that shirk. Success is evil, and must be punished to provide IPhones for the fifth child of workless families. It's the kindest thing to do.
2 vids on wealth distribution, a famous Lady T moment in the commons where she makes the point about the difference between Labour and the Conservatives on wealth distribution.
No idea if its this bad in the UK but in the USA the mean could be lowered and median raised by a fair whack without threatening any Thatcherite visions of how wealth should be spread.
Le Rosbif Writes: SNCF, the French rail firm, wants its passengers to show more courtesy But isn't it British travellers who need to improve their manners? "
"Being really serious, how do you manage retirement?"
By setting your expectations appropriately. It's a time to read all the books you never had time for before, to take that hobby seriously, to try new things occasionally, and to go abroad without having to do a job or give a paper at a conference.
You lose waking up with new ideas or having people listen to you because of who you are or because of your expertise. You become on old git and can say what you want when you want, and you don't care if they think you're talking bollocks (which I often am).
Oh, and you can visit people you want to keep in touch with and advise the kids (knowing they won't take a blind bit of notice).
And you can have adventures with your friends. Being retired is fantastic, like having a second childhood but without a mum to put boundaries on your play.
I recommend taking up snoring on the run up to retirement day then you'll be banished to the spare room and that means you can sit up playing bridge on the internet for as long as you like or read till four in the morning if you feel like it
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
We wouldn't all be poorer with slightly less wealth and a much more even income distribution would we? Think about it.
Absolutely. The more you work, the wealthier those that shirk. Success is evil, and must be punished to provide IPhones for the fifth child of workless families. It's the kindest thing to do.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Blimey, I point out a mathematic possibility and you come out with this.
The sad thing about many that comment on politics is that they can't accept a valid truth if it weakens their own argument, and also assume that anyone making it must be an extremist for the other side.
I'm merely pointing out the result of the mathematical possibility you mention. It's not an attack on you or your politics.
It's possible to be in favour of reducing the income disparity between cleaner's and CEOs even if it results in CEOs not working as hard and the country as a whole being a bit poorer, because doing so would increase the majority of working people's income.
Unfortunately I'm falling into the same trap as Socrates in believing that Mathematics and Rationality has any place in a political discourse swamped by disingenuous soundbites.
Of course it's possible to be in favour of that, and to make a rational argument for it. I'm not. I'm after corporate tax avoidance and shrinking the state to reduce tax pressure on lower earners at a far greater effective percentage than higher earners. For me, neither the State, nor individuals should be looking upwards and demanding the gap close, they should be looking to their own income and to see that be effectively increased and made more streamlined by reducing the influence of the State over everyday life. Everyone pays less, the lower earners get a proportionately better percentage boost in income and the smaller State commits to properly enforcing the tax laws of the country on all corporations and businesses. Everyone will say they want the rich to pay more, but when they do, that money never goes to the lower earners, it goes to pet projects and etc etc etc (rant about the workshy, kids, whatever)
Comments
'Plain speaking' is all very well, but sometimes you can over-do it:
Ian Austin @IanAustinMP
Very interesting: @bbcnickrobinson reports Farage said that if he stood and lost "the bubble would burst".
It's more that campaigns generally have a limited effect (imho) in changing how most people vote at the election.
GE, Lab largest party, 15 short, 20 ahead, Miliband PM of minority government, election in 12 months, movement to Labour on back of flatlining Tory share in polls
Indy No 52, Yes 48, no movement
Euros, UKIP 30ish and winners, Lab and Tory in the low twenties
(...which I would not want to make sound like a bad thing. Not on Political Betting....)
I have been struck by the comments along the lines of UKIP = Millwall, "...and we don't care." But surely it is more a case of a large chunk of the voters - a really large chunk - who are saying they are Millwall, and in UKIP finding someone to support....
Can someone explain the BNP's policy on penguins arriving at Heathrow - do they need to use the EU or non EU queue ?
Britain neither red hearts Europe nor the establishment
Consolation prize
They do not red heart revolution or financial uncertainty either.
The more they do this sort of stupidity, the more likely I am to jump off the fence.
They know this.
I am toying with a screw it, join the party fun vote at the Euros. Just to see Cam and Ed implode.
It might do some good.
The counter argument is making the world according to Nigel a self-fulfilling prophecy
Roger Helmer @RogerHelmerMEP 11m
Great media morning in Newark Market Square. Excellent breakfast in Wetherspoons.
It's a daft move.
The country is changing, very fast, a chance to discuss that is essential and is, in the main, the reason for UKIPs rise.
'Theyre doing stuff again Gladys, and things are happening (meaning the government/establishment)' it's the unease that we have lost control of the ability to even understand our little island home.
That's why I open at 3 :-D
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/04/30/equality-more-important-wealth/
Tories are the only group that wants "Increasing the total amount of wealth, even if its distribution is less equal" whereas every other group wants us all to be poorer.
There's this guy who jogs past about once a week, and the funny thing is that he must be about 75 now, but he carries on jogging as if he was 50 years younger. I usually wave to him as he goes past, and he sort of waves back in a desultory fashion, even though I've never actually met him.
http://www.theblueguerilla.co.uk/2014/04/farage-eyes-portsmouth-south-with-by.html
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg190/Pulpstar/newark1.png
We haven't seen him for years, and we always wonder what's happened to him.
I'm still confused
UKIP GB Vote Share
25/1 Under 15%
12/1 15-20%
5/1 20-25%
7/4 25-30%
5/2 30-35%
6/1 35-40%
16/1 Over 40%
Apologies for anyone who couldn't get more that a tenner or something on the Newark betting - a glitch at our end which should now be fixed.
Suspect he know the Euro's are as good as it get's for him and UKIP, at least for this Parliament.
In other news;
Max Von Sydow in Star Wars Epsiode VII - I've died and gone to geek heaven!!!!!!
28.5% ? 29 maybe ?
The difference is that Farage's was an off the cuff remark, while Roche and the people that she is in cahoots with, have formed a policy unit on the back of it
Just heard some rather odd news - Gollum will be handed a light saber in the upcoming Star-Wars film. Tis this true?
"We wouldn't all be poorer with slightly less wealth and a much more even income distribution would we? Think about it."
I have thought about it, and indeed looked at the evidence.
Perhaps you should try doing the same?
Jim Murphy challenged on whether Lab may reopen no referendum stance if Ukip wins the Euros: "l'm not going to speculate.'
The sad thing about many that comment on politics is that they can't accept a valid truth if it weakens their own argument, and also assume that anyone making it must be an extremist for the other side.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8617035.stm
"Being really serious, how do you manage retirement?"
By setting your expectations appropriately. It's a time to read all the books you never had time for before, to take that hobby seriously, to try new things occasionally, and to go abroad without having to do a job or give a paper at a conference.
You lose waking up with new ideas or having people listen to you because of who you are or because of your expertise. You become on old git and can say what you want when you want, and you don't care if they think you're talking bollocks (which I often am).
Oh, and you can visit people you want to keep in touch with and advise the kids (knowing they won't take a blind bit of notice).
"Here lies Nick Clegg. He managed to lose in a win:win situation..."
4/6 UKIP to outpoll the Tories in the Euros...now 2/11
I seriously considered £6000 to win £4000, and while I dithered the price went.
The UKIP-Lab-Con tricast now 4/5, hope someone got on, again I didnt
Almost time to let the UKIP bandwagon roll on and concentrate fire on the left, with both eyes on 2015.
Unfortunately I'm falling into the same trap as Socrates in believing that Mathematics and Rationality has any place in a political discourse swamped by disingenuous soundbites.
Evs Lab
Evs Con
UKIP 33s
LD 100
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/most-votes
You can get 7/4 UKIP to bt LDs w WH.. surely value???
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/match-bet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dDZoVmdlVXBEQVNvcUNfR294UXo0S3c&usp=sheets_web#gid=0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6xxiw
2 minutes in or so.
Perception vs reality vs perceived 'ideal' wealth distribution in the USA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eEIrmBRVG4
No idea if its this bad in the UK but in the USA the mean could be lowered and median raised by a fair whack without threatening any Thatcherite visions of how wealth should be spread.
Le Rosbif Writes: SNCF, the French rail firm, wants its passengers to show more courtesy But isn't it British travellers who need to improve their manners? "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/france/10797731/Do-French-manners-put-the-British-to-shame.html
People said the same for a year about the UKIP/Con Euro match
I recommend taking up snoring on the run up to retirement day then you'll be banished to the spare room and that means you can sit up playing bridge on the internet for as long as you like or read till four in the morning if you feel like it
I'm not. I'm after corporate tax avoidance and shrinking the state to reduce tax pressure on lower earners at a far greater effective percentage than higher earners.
For me, neither the State, nor individuals should be looking upwards and demanding the gap close, they should be looking to their own income and to see that be effectively increased and made more streamlined by reducing the influence of the State over everyday life.
Everyone pays less, the lower earners get a proportionately better percentage boost in income and the smaller State commits to properly enforcing the tax laws of the country on all corporations and businesses.
Everyone will say they want the rich to pay more, but when they do, that money never goes to the lower earners, it goes to pet projects and etc etc etc (rant about the workshy, kids, whatever)