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Could this German stop Andy Burnham becoming Prime Minister on Monday? – politicalbetting.com

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  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,871

    Poor Keir, doesn't get his dream trip to the world cup final.

    Only bright side of this last 10 mins shambles!!
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,533
    Scott_xP said:

    @ShippersUnbound

    Tuchel’s game management has been great in this tournament but that was 25 minutes of pure Southgate

    He’s not wrong !
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,127

    ydoethur said:

    SKS said today in his last PMQs that Labour was "found to be institutionally antisemitic", presumably by the EHRC.

    This is a total and complete lie. Straightforward fabrication. As a lawyer, he must know it's a lie.

    He really is the most execrably dishonest man, who seems to have forgotten he's been forced out of power discredited by his association with Mandelson, disgraced by his complicity in genocide and so reviled by voters that his Party has to find a new leader from outside of the PLP to try rescue his government from electoral oblivion.

    Incidentally, in case anyone thought BJO was telling the truth, here's the report he claims does not exist:

    https://fathomjournal.org/fathom-report-institutionally-antisemitic-contemporary-left-antisemitism-and-the-crisis-in-the-british-labour-party/

    The EHRC report which led to Corbyn's expulsion does not use that language, but here is its report which describes Labour as 'at best, did not do enough to prevent antisemitism and at worst, could be seen to accept it.'

    https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/investigation-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party.pdf#page100

    Corbyn said that was a lie, but it was not true - he's just massively racist. The problem is, like rather too many in Labour, he doesn't realise it.
    You post a BICOM report

    Wiki says After the outbreak of the Second Intifada, British Jews founded the Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) to promote a more supportive environment for Israel in the UK, principally through work with the media.[1]

    In 2005, Ruth Smeeth joined as director of public affairs and campaigns.[2]

    In 2009, it was criticized as "one of the most persistent and slickest media operations in the battle for influence over opinion formers".[3]

    IGNORE
    Do you deny that it is a report that says what Keir Starmer claimed to have been said in PMQs which you said he must have known was a lie?

    Or do you ignore it simply because it was written by Jews, which seems to be the essential thrust of your comment?

    It is hardly remarkable to a normal person that a report on anti-semitism is published by an organisation that specialises in studying it. Just as my work on Welsh history is published in the Welsh Historical Review not the Annales journal.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,512

    All those defenders. What were they doing?

    Getting in each others way. Defend from the midfield.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,025
    Tuchel was supposed to be a knockout expert and yet his tactics ended up being five at the back. I don’t think he should get another go in 2028.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,307
    Same time in 4 years?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,512
    edited 9:05PM
    Well, we do get to play the frogs after all.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,802
    Sad. The team has played some good football over the tournament but that half hour after our goal was truly risible.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,823
    Better team up to the goal then it went to shit. Fair play to Argentina for going for it. But my they are a dirty set of ****s.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,533
    Oh well. Not coming home yet.

    Maybe another 60 years.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,693
    tlg86 said:

    Tuchel was supposed to be a knockout expert and yet his tactics ended up being five at the back. I don’t think he should get another go in 2028.

    Best team won but Tuchel gambled and lost
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,502
    Such is life!

    Oh, well, at least we won't be stressing out on Sunday evening.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,520
    Argentina were going to leave space as they tried to get the equaliser . A perfect opportunity to get them on the break. Instead we got this garbage for the last 30 mins .

    The score flattered England who were basically crap apart from one bright spot when they scored .
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,533

    Better team up to the goal then it went to shit. Fair play to Argentina for going for it. But my they are a dirty set of ****s.

    Their gamesmanship is admirable.

    Like Ian Carmichael in ‘School for Scoundrels’
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,920
    edited 9:07PM
    We really ought to have been able to defend a 1-0 lead with 5 mins to go. Well played Argentina.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,228
    22.03 BST Full time: England 1-2 Argentina

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2026/jul/15/england-v-argentina-world-cup-2026-semi-final-live?CMP=share_btn_url&page=with:block-6a57f5178f0840325854a52d#block-6a57f5178f0840325854a52d

    My sympathies, folks. Don't forget that if you were offered a year ago to get to the last four you would have bitten their hand off. This isn't as bad as it feels.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,533
    nico67 said:

    Argentina were going to leave space as they tried to get the equaliser . A perfect opportunity to get them on the break. Instead we got this garbage for the last 30 mins .

    The score flattered England who were basically crap apart from one bright spot when they scored .

    Pickford making a few good saves also helped flatter the scoreline
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,742
    I am calling it now, England are going to win Euro 2028.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,910
    Taz said:

    nico67 said:

    Argentina were going to leave space as they tried to get the equaliser . A perfect opportunity to get them on the break. Instead we got this garbage for the last 30 mins .

    The score flattered England who were basically crap apart from one bright spot when they scored .

    Pickford making a few good saves also helped flatter the scoreline
    As did MC Alister hitting the post twice.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,802
    Did we only get two shots at goal, the whole game?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,025
    viewcode said:

    22.03 BST Full time: England 1-2 Argentina

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2026/jul/15/england-v-argentina-world-cup-2026-semi-final-live?CMP=share_btn_url&page=with:block-6a57f5178f0840325854a52d#block-6a57f5178f0840325854a52d

    My sympathies, folks. Don't forget that if you were offered a year ago to get to the last four you would have bitten their hand off. This isn't as bad as it feels.

    I think it’s par given the draw we were given. Unfortunately, once again, England lost to the first good team they came up again.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,156
    Well played Argentina. Thoroughly deserved.

    A 2-1 thrashing in my book.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,652

    Better team up to the goal then it went to shit. Fair play to Argentina for going for it. But my they are a dirty set of ****s.

    I would describe that as a bad-tempeted match.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,871
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    SKS said today in his last PMQs that Labour was "found to be institutionally antisemitic", presumably by the EHRC.

    This is a total and complete lie. Straightforward fabrication. As a lawyer, he must know it's a lie.

    He really is the most execrably dishonest man, who seems to have forgotten he's been forced out of power discredited by his association with Mandelson, disgraced by his complicity in genocide and so reviled by voters that his Party has to find a new leader from outside of the PLP to try rescue his government from electoral oblivion.

    Incidentally, in case anyone thought BJO was telling the truth, here's the report he claims does not exist:

    https://fathomjournal.org/fathom-report-institutionally-antisemitic-contemporary-left-antisemitism-and-the-crisis-in-the-british-labour-party/

    The EHRC report which led to Corbyn's expulsion does not use that language, but here is its report which describes Labour as 'at best, did not do enough to prevent antisemitism and at worst, could be seen to accept it.'

    https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/investigation-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party.pdf#page100

    Corbyn said that was a lie, but it was not true - he's just massively racist. The problem is, like rather too many in Labour, he doesn't realise it.
    You post a BICOM report

    Wiki says After the outbreak of the Second Intifada, British Jews founded the Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) to promote a more supportive environment for Israel in the UK, principally through work with the media.[1]

    In 2005, Ruth Smeeth joined as director of public affairs and campaigns.[2]

    In 2009, it was criticized as "one of the most persistent and slickest media operations in the battle for influence over opinion formers".[3]

    IGNORE
    Do you deny that it is a report that says what Keir Starmer claimed to have been said in PMQs which you said he must have known was a lie?

    Or do you ignore it simply because it was written by Jews, which seems to be the essential thrust of your comment?

    It is hardly remarkable to a normal person that a report on anti-semitism is published by an organisation that specialises in studying it. Just as my work on Welsh history is published in the Welsh Historical Review not the Annales journal.
    Its not an Independent report its written by we believe in Israel types and is a perfect example of Political opponents exaggerating AS as Corbyn says BICOM is a Pro Israel organisation so by definition not in the least independent

    You are surely more intelligent than this The EHRC report and the Forde Report are both respected independent reports this one is a perfect example of the scam Mandelson and his mates tried to pull off.

    This is like saying GB news says
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,512

    Better team up to the goal then it went to shit. Fair play to Argentina for going for it. But my they are a dirty set of ****s.

    I would describe that as a bad-tempeted match.
    Only the first half. Second half Argentina simply played better football.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,823
    tlg86 said:

    viewcode said:

    22.03 BST Full time: England 1-2 Argentina

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2026/jul/15/england-v-argentina-world-cup-2026-semi-final-live?CMP=share_btn_url&page=with:block-6a57f5178f0840325854a52d#block-6a57f5178f0840325854a52d

    My sympathies, folks. Don't forget that if you were offered a year ago to get to the last four you would have bitten their hand off. This isn't as bad as it feels.

    I think it’s par given the draw we were given. Unfortunately, once again, England lost to the first good team they came up again.
    That’s nonsense. The win in Mexico, against a team who just don’t lose at home was huge. Beating Croatia was huge.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,567
    Well so near but yet so far, again. Messi and Fernandez very good as usual.

    Argentina v Spain on Sunday a difficult one for British fans on Sunday, Falklands v Gibraltar. On balance the preference must be Spain given the deal on border checks

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jul/15/spain-gibraltar-celebrate-deal-signed-border-controls-uk-territory
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,502
    Taz said:

    Better team up to the goal then it went to shit. Fair play to Argentina for going for it. But my they are a dirty set of ****s.

    Their gamesmanship is admirable.

    Like Ian Carmichael in ‘School for Scoundrels’
    Terry Thomas?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,871
    How disappointing

    Peaked too early

    Went too defensive

    TUCHEL HAS TO GO
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 6,123
    edited 9:16PM
    Manager found out again. Southgate with a German accent.

    There was no need to spend 25 minutes giving them the ball.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,567
    edited 9:12PM

    Poor Keir, doesn't get his dream trip to the world cup final.

    Though Burnham doesn't get his first week as PM glorying in being the PM of the world cup winners either. Thread header now redundant
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,828
    Was this the equivalent of West Germany in 1970?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,510
    So Tuchel did exactly what Southgate was slagged off for. Trying to sit on a one goal lead for ages.

    Great goal from Gordon but we'd probably have been better off not scoring it.

    Bizarre psychology in football sometimes.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,533
    edited 9:15PM

    Taz said:

    Better team up to the goal then it went to shit. Fair play to Argentina for going for it. But my they are a dirty set of ****s.

    Their gamesmanship is admirable.

    Like Ian Carmichael in ‘School for Scoundrels’
    Terry Thomas?
    No

    Ian Carmichael played the loser in life who became a pupil at the school run by a character played by Alistair Sim. There he learnt gamesmanship/lifemanship at the school and then used it to good effect.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,828
    Decent tournament for England.
    But of a shame about the last half hour.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,422
    On topic: QTWTAIN
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,568
    HYUFD said:

    Well so near but yet so far, again. Messi and Fernandez very good as usual.

    Argentina v Spain on Sunday a difficult one for British fans on Sunday, Falklands v Gibraltar. On balance the preference must be Spain given the deal on border checks

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jul/15/spain-gibraltar-celebrate-deal-signed-border-controls-uk-territory

    Serious? Spain of course. And the fact they’re the team Trump least wants to win helps.

    But honestly, England. What an embarrassment that last 30 minutes. As soon as we scored I knew. That familiar sense of dread.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,394

    tlg86 said:

    Tuchel was supposed to be a knockout expert and yet his tactics ended up being five at the back. I don’t think he should get another go in 2028.

    Best team won but Tuchel gambled and lost
    It's not just the manager, it's the players who have the tendency to retreat. They had no out ball because the centre forward was defending in the 18 yard box. If Kane isn't going to be that release then he should have been subbed for someone who was...
    Rooney is furious, just about containing himself from kicking the set.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,502
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Better team up to the goal then it went to shit. Fair play to Argentina for going for it. But my they are a dirty set of ****s.

    Their gamesmanship is admirable.

    Like Ian Carmichael in ‘School for Scoundrels’
    Terry Thomas?
    No

    Ian Carmichael played the loser in life who became a pupil who learnt gamesmanship at the school and then used it to good effect.
    "Ready now?" :lol:
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,025
    edited 9:16PM

    tlg86 said:

    viewcode said:

    22.03 BST Full time: England 1-2 Argentina

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2026/jul/15/england-v-argentina-world-cup-2026-semi-final-live?CMP=share_btn_url&page=with:block-6a57f5178f0840325854a52d#block-6a57f5178f0840325854a52d

    My sympathies, folks. Don't forget that if you were offered a year ago to get to the last four you would have bitten their hand off. This isn't as bad as it feels.

    I think it’s par given the draw we were given. Unfortunately, once again, England lost to the first good team they came up again.
    That’s nonsense. The win in Mexico, against a team who just don’t lose at home was huge. Beating Croatia was huge.
    Croatia are old. Mexico are average. They did well to win given the dodgy refereeing, but Mexico are nothing special.

    Same applies to France by the way.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,742
    Piers Morgan proving Arsenal fans know nothing about soccer.

    He posted this at 9.33pm

    This has been a Tuchel tactical masterclass. Take us home, Thomas! 👊👊👊👊

    https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/2077491887989014928
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,533

    Andy_JS said:

    We really ought to have been able to defend a 1-0 lead with 5 mins to go. Well played Argentina.

    The best way to defend a one goal lead is to increase the lead to two goals.

    How many times over the years have England tried to defend a one goal lead and failed ?

    Still tonight was not as bad as France in 98 IIRC. Losing 2-1 conceding two with three minutes to go
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,239
    We are all Spanish now
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,828
    Dopermean said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tuchel was supposed to be a knockout expert and yet his tactics ended up being five at the back. I don’t think he should get another go in 2028.

    Best team won but Tuchel gambled and lost
    It's not just the manager, it's the players who have the tendency to retreat. They had no out ball because the centre forward was defending in the 18 yard box. If Kane isn't going to be that release then he should have been subbed for someone who was...
    Rooney is furious, just about containing himself from kicking the set.
    Of course, Rooney engineered a near endless stream of England triumphs.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,356

    Are we all Spanish now?

    claro

    There aren't even any national anthem lyrics to learn.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,653
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We really ought to have been able to defend a 1-0 lead with 5 mins to go. Well played Argentina.

    The best way to defend a one goal lead is to increase the lead to two goals.

    How many times over the years have England tried to defend a one goal lead and failed ?

    Still tonight was not as bad as France in 98 IIRC. Losing 2-1 conceding two with three minutes to go
    Wasn't that Euro 2004 ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2004_Group_B
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,533
    Dopermean said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tuchel was supposed to be a knockout expert and yet his tactics ended up being five at the back. I don’t think he should get another go in 2028.

    Best team won but Tuchel gambled and lost
    It's not just the manager, it's the players who have the tendency to retreat. They had no out ball because the centre forward was defending in the 18 yard box. If Kane isn't going to be that release then he should have been subbed for someone who was...
    Rooney is furious, just about containing himself from kicking the set.
    Indeed.

    With his tactical nous and managerial genius he has every right to be

    In his time at Brum we never really had the problem of failing to defend a 1 goal lead as it was so rare we got one.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,652
    Jean Carroll (finally) receives >$5.6 million from Donald Trump. The additional $83 million owed is still being appealed.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2026/07/14/e-jean-carroll-donald-trump-payment-00996728
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,512
    MelonB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well so near but yet so far, again. Messi and Fernandez very good as usual.

    Argentina v Spain on Sunday a difficult one for British fans on Sunday, Falklands v Gibraltar. On balance the preference must be Spain given the deal on border checks

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jul/15/spain-gibraltar-celebrate-deal-signed-border-controls-uk-territory

    Serious? Spain of course. And the fact they’re the team Trump least wants to win helps.

    But honestly, England. What an embarrassment that last 30 minutes. As soon as we scored I knew. That familiar sense of dread.
    Yes, the mentality of the Argentinians after they went behind is why they won.

    Watching England tonight was like watching my own club. So many late goals conceded.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,114
    Tuchel did the same tactics of defending a lead the last two games. With Mexico it was for over half an hour.

    Strategies don't always work. That's life. Doing the opposite might have seen us knocked out two rounds ago.

    We lost a close semi-final. It was a good effort. No shame in that.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,533

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We really ought to have been able to defend a 1-0 lead with 5 mins to go. Well played Argentina.

    The best way to defend a one goal lead is to increase the lead to two goals.

    How many times over the years have England tried to defend a one goal lead and failed ?

    Still tonight was not as bad as France in 98 IIRC. Losing 2-1 conceding two with three minutes to go
    Wasn't that Euro 2004 ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2004_Group_B
    You must be right.

    I wasn’t quite sure of the tournament.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,920
    Ratters said:

    Tuchel did the same tactics of defending a lead the last two games. With Mexico it was for over half an hour.

    Strategies don't always work. That's life. Doing the opposite might have seen us knocked out two rounds ago.

    We lost a close semi-final. It was a good effort. No shame in that.

    No change from 1990, the first world cup I watched, losing at the semi-final stage.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,356
    Nigelb said:

    Decent tournament for England.
    But of a shame about the last half hour.

    They have, again, done about as well as their rating as a team suggests. Top four, but not top two.

    Which is boring, but a huge improvement from what used to happen before 2000ish.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,567
    '@Keir_Starmer
    Gutted. Tonight wasn’t the result we all hoped for, but this England team has given it their all.

    The passion and energy they’ve shown representing the badge has made us all proud.'


    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/2077503718044443108?s=20
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,556
    edited 9:23PM
    Andy_JS said:

    We really ought to have been able to defend a 1-0 lead with 5 mins to go. Well played Argentina.

    Not when Argentina have 99% possession just outside the England box for half an hour.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,512
    edited 9:24PM
    Andy_JS said:

    Ratters said:

    Tuchel did the same tactics of defending a lead the last two games. With Mexico it was for over half an hour.

    Strategies don't always work. That's life. Doing the opposite might have seen us knocked out two rounds ago.

    We lost a close semi-final. It was a good effort. No shame in that.

    No change from 1990, the first world cup I watched, losing at the semi-final stage.
    Thinking about it, it is time I retired my 1990 England shirt. I was wearing it at the 2018 Semi final, and again tonight.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,802
    Both manager and team clearly felt, deep down, that Argentina were the better side, and that we could only win through a lucky break.

    A lack of belief that was disappointing, their having just come from beating Mexico at high altitude in their home temple of sport.

    Then we were cursed to get said lucky break way too early to defend.

    At least we all be united in cheering for Spain on Sunday (once we’ve suffered the humiliation of being beaten again on Saturday).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,698
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ratters said:

    Tuchel did the same tactics of defending a lead the last two games. With Mexico it was for over half an hour.

    Strategies don't always work. That's life. Doing the opposite might have seen us knocked out two rounds ago.

    We lost a close semi-final. It was a good effort. No shame in that.

    No change from 1990, the first world cup I watched, losing at the semi-final stage.
    Thinking about it, it is time I retired my 1990 England shirt. I was wearing it at the 2018 Semi final, and again tonight.
    Have England been rubbish since Umbro quit the game?

    @hhesterm.bsky.social‬

    The final will be adidas v adidas, match for third Nike v Nike.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,568
    IanB2 said:

    Both manager and team clearly felt, deep down, that Argentina were the better side, and that we could only win through a lucky break.

    A lack of belief that was disappointing, their having just come from beating Mexico at high altitude in their home temple of sport.

    Then we were cursed to get said lucky break way too early to defend.

    At least we all be united in cheering for Spain on Sunday (once we’ve suffered the humiliation of being beaten again on Saturday).

    Exactly that. A very deep seated inferiority complex that’s dogged the national team for decades. Still, a final against Spain would have made this semi’s possession stats almost respectable.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,977
    edited 9:27PM
    .

    Andy_JS said:

    We really ought to have been able to defend a 1-0 lead with 5 mins to go. Well played Argentina.

    The best way to defend a one goal lead is to increase the lead to two goals.

    How many times over the years have England tried to defend a one goal lead and failed ?
    It didn't look to me like England was in defence mode, simply that Argentina played a lot a better in the second half and might have got another couple of goals, whereas with England it was the one goal and that was it.

    I don't know what I'm talking about with football, so maybe it wasn't like that.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,765
    Scott_xP said:

    @ShippersUnbound

    Tuchel’s game management has been great in this tournament but that was 25 minutes of pure Southgate

    southgate? it was eriksson
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,596
    Two tired squads out there after long tournament. One up after 67 minutes you know opponents will come at you, but Tuchels response was too much tightening. It became cling on or fucked.

    Ultimately Tuchels squad was flawed - not enough 6 and 8’s to protect the defence and pressure Messi who was allowed too much time and space in the later stages. Mainoo didn’t get one minute throughout the run, Tuchel threw on centre back after centre back to protect the lead but pointless without a 6 or 8 - it gifted Messi two assists, and it’s the gifting it what hurts.

    Also Tuchel knowingly took too many crocks. Rice and Saka could never give 90 minutes, that’s been obvious long before he whittled his squad down. and James hamstrings hasn’t allowed many run of games in 4 years.

    Argentina started in a silly mindset, but when they went behind they did switch into strong focus and grown up football.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,025
    Ratters said:

    Tuchel did the same tactics of defending a lead the last two games. With Mexico it was for over half an hour.

    Strategies don't always work. That's life. Doing the opposite might have seen us knocked out two rounds ago.

    We lost a close semi-final. It was a good effort. No shame in that.

    More forgivable when you are down to 10 men. Thankfully those two teams didn’t have players with the quality that Argentina have.

    Argentina’s quality only came through once England gave up trying to compete in midfield.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,307
    IanB2 said:

    Sad. The team has played some good football over the tournament but that half hour after our goal was truly risible.

    Peaked too soon, best performance was the first game against Croatia.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,653
    How many times have England gone out of tournaments by more than one goal ?

    The 4-1 defeat by Germany in 2010, the three defeat shambles at Euro 88.

    Any others ?

    They rarely get well beaten by a better team but continually have these one goal or penalty shoot out "wasn't it close, we'll win the next tournament" failings.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,802
    Anyhow, at least we can now firmly tag “except when betting on sport” to the end of the PB mantra “never bet against Andy_JS”
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 847
    Fun fact

    Mac Allister has a brother called Kevin Mac Allister who was left Home Alone during the world cup, ie. not called up
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,512
    FF43 said:

    .

    Andy_JS said:

    We really ought to have been able to defend a 1-0 lead with 5 mins to go. Well played Argentina.

    The best way to defend a one goal lead is to increase the lead to two goals.

    How many times over the years have England tried to defend a one goal lead and failed ?
    It didn't look to me like England was in defence mode, simply that Argentina played a lot a better in the second half and might have got another couple of goals, whereas with England it was the one goal and that was it.

    I don't know what I'm talking about with football, so maybe it wasn't like that.
    I think that was the reason for Tuchels substitutions. We weren't counter attacking already before them. Hence he was trying to shore up the defence.

    For their second all our players were too deep. There was no one pressing their midfield.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,698
    @columnist.bsky.social‬

    Tuchel’s substitutions 🤝 Mahmood becoming Chancellor
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,239
    Scott_xP said:

    @columnist.bsky.social‬

    Tuchel’s substitutions 🤝 Mahmood becoming Chancellor

    That is LOL
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,307
    Strange that at no point was Kobbie Mainoo called upon. He had a really good end to the season and was excellent at the Euros two years ago. He looked totally at home playing international football in the "busy" role.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,307
    Jude Bellington is going to need to see a chiropractor to realign his back after all the heavy lifting he has been doing over the past few weeks.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,239
    Scott_xP said:

    @columnist.bsky.social‬

    Tuchel’s substitutions 🤝 Mahmood becoming Chancellor

    Note from Andy Burnham at age 80 to himself:

    You only get one brief chance to change the world and playing safe don't cut it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,906
    IanB2 said:

    Both manager and team clearly felt, deep down, that Argentina were the better side, and that we could only win through a lucky break.

    A lack of belief that was disappointing, their having just come from beating Mexico at high altitude in their home temple of sport.

    Then we were cursed to get said lucky break way too early to defend.

    At least we all be united in cheering for Spain on Sunday (once we’ve suffered the humiliation of being beaten again on Saturday).

    We are the fourth best team at this tournement. Feels right. Good - but not good enough.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,528
    So, on topic, QTWTAIN
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,698
    Maybe somebody in the England camp could have researched this statistic?

    @ellabrockway.bsky.social‬

    Argentina in the knockout stage of this World Cup:

    1' to 67': -3 goal differential
    68' onward: +8 goal differential
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,025

    How many times have England gone out of tournaments by more than one goal ?

    The 4-1 defeat by Germany in 2010, the three defeat shambles at Euro 88.

    Any others ?

    They rarely get well beaten by a better team but continually have these one goal or penalty shoot out "wasn't it close, we'll win the next tournament" failings.

    Yes, the first good team we come up against thing isn’t about us being especially inferior it’s about us always finding a way to lose.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,025

    Strange that at no point was Kobbie Mainoo called upon. He had a really good end to the season and was excellent at the Euros two years ago. He looked totally at home playing international football in the "busy" role.

    I’d have taken Wharton but yes, why take him and not use him given Rice’s issues.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,307
    edited 9:43PM
    How many truly elite players do England have that would get in any countries starting XI?

    Bellingham
    Kane (perhaps)
    ....

    Where as when England massive underperformed we had Ferdinard, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Owen, ....I think most countries would have had them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,307
    tlg86 said:

    Strange that at no point was Kobbie Mainoo called upon. He had a really good end to the season and was excellent at the Euros two years ago. He looked totally at home playing international football in the "busy" role.

    I’d have taken Wharton but yes, why take him and not use him given Rice’s issues.
    Cos we had to take the OAP Henderson to be waterboy and cheerleader?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,025
    edited 9:43PM

    How many truly elite players do England have that would get in any countries starting XI?

    Bellingham
    Kane (perhaps)
    ....

    Rice and Saka when fit, but clearly they aren’t at the moment.

    But tonight is 100% on the manager.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,528

    How many truly elite players do England have that would get in any countries starting XI?

    Bellingham
    Kane (perhaps)
    ....

    Kane was invisible in both of the last 2 games. Did he just run out of steam? Did he not get the right service? What happened?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,307
    edited 9:45PM
    tlg86 said:

    How many truly elite players do England have that would get in any countries starting XI?

    Bellingham
    Kane (perhaps)
    ....

    Rice and Saka when fit, but clearly they aren’t at the moment.

    But tonight is 100% on the manager.
    Would Rice get in France, Spain, Argentina, Brazil team. Maybe. I don't think Saka would, he is significantly behind Yamal, Vini, Mbappe, Messi.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,612
    From a moderate to neutral position, that was a deeply frustrating watch. I wanted to see what Bellingham could do in a semi-final. And what a shame Saka and Rice are injured/sick - both world class players who could lead this England team to an Arsenal-style title.

    Disrupting a solid back 4 and abdicating all attacking threat is only defendable if you win. 25 minutes was far too long, and the England team does not have the discipline to pull that off - you have to snap into challenges and close everything down, plus a healthy dose of gamesmanship.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,612
    Scott_xP said:

    @columnist.bsky.social‬

    Tuchel’s substitutions 🤝 Mahmood becoming Chancellor

    Heh. That’s perfect.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 6,123

    tlg86 said:

    Strange that at no point was Kobbie Mainoo called upon. He had a really good end to the season and was excellent at the Euros two years ago. He looked totally at home playing international football in the "busy" role.

    I’d have taken Wharton but yes, why take him and not use him given Rice’s issues.
    Cos we had to take the OAP Henderson to be waterboy and cheerleader?
    ...from the parts of the sidelines that Tuchel couldn't reach.

    Perhaps we needed him "warming up" with 25 to go.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,528

    tlg86 said:

    Strange that at no point was Kobbie Mainoo called upon. He had a really good end to the season and was excellent at the Euros two years ago. He looked totally at home playing international football in the "busy" role.

    I’d have taken Wharton but yes, why take him and not use him given Rice’s issues.
    Cos we had to take the OAP Henderson to be waterboy and cheerleader?
    And Mainoo never got on the pitch. Not sure that was a good call. England never opened up the way I think they could have. Disappointed.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,025
    edited 9:47PM

    tlg86 said:

    How many truly elite players do England have that would get in any countries starting XI?

    Bellingham
    Kane (perhaps)
    ....

    Rice and Saka when fit, but clearly they aren’t at the moment.

    But tonight is 100% on the manager.
    Would Rice get in France, Spain, Argentina, Brazil team. Maybe. I don't think Saka would, he is significantly behind Yamal, Vini, Mbappe, Messi.
    I wouldn’t swap (a fit) Saka for any of those that you mention.

    Rice a bit trickier. He’s the best at what he does but Spain probably pick passers ahead of his style of play.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,307
    edited 9:48PM
    DavidL said:

    How many truly elite players do England have that would get in any countries starting XI?

    Bellingham
    Kane (perhaps)
    ....

    Kane was invisible in both of the last 2 games. Did he just run out of steam? Did he not get the right service? What happened?
    Kane isn't fast enough to break down defences himself. The issue seems to be when the service starts to stop he drops deep into midfield, where he is can spray a nice ball from time to time, but again he isn't tricky enough / fast enough to really burst through the zone like Jude can.

    I also think he has played an insane amount of games over the past 5-6 years and he basically plays every minute of every game. And unlike a Haaland, he does a lot more running.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,313

    How many truly elite players do England have that would get in any countries starting XI?

    Bellingham
    Kane (perhaps)
    ....

    Where as when England massive underperformed we had Ferdinard, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Owen, ....I think most countries would have had them.

    France, Brazil and Italy had some bonkers teams around that time
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,307
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    How many truly elite players do England have that would get in any countries starting XI?

    Bellingham
    Kane (perhaps)
    ....

    Rice and Saka when fit, but clearly they aren’t at the moment.

    But tonight is 100% on the manager.
    Would Rice get in France, Spain, Argentina, Brazil team. Maybe. I don't think Saka would, he is significantly behind Yamal, Vini, Mbappe, Messi.
    I wouldn’t swap (a fit) Saka for any of those that you mention.

    Rice a bit trickier. He’s the best at what he does but Spain probably pick passers ahead of his style of play.
    Dani Olmo in that Rice role has been fantastic in this world cup.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,307
    edited 9:59PM
    Pulpstar said:

    How many truly elite players do England have that would get in any countries starting XI?

    Bellingham
    Kane (perhaps)
    ....

    Where as when England massive underperformed we had Ferdinard, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Owen, ....I think most countries would have had them.

    France, Brazil and Italy had some bonkers teams around that time
    True. Perhaps not Owen and I didn't include Beckham because there were better as you say bonkers players who were well ahead, but the others were as good man for man (or only a tiny bit behind where it really wouldn't be a downgrade) at that time. But as a team they were utter shit.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,823
    And so now another pointless 3/4 play off match. What is the point?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,307
    edited 10:01PM

    And so now another pointless 3/4 play off match. What is the point?

    Money.....

    I don't think either teams ever really try in thise 3/4 play off match. I think if I was Tuchel, I would just play all those who haven't played so far. Why risk knackering Rice, Saka, James, etc even more.
  • CharlieSharkCharlieShark Posts: 501
    This was totally on Tuchel. A squad with too many duds and crocks and missing obvious selections who could turn matches around. Even when he had a chance to rectify with Livramento out, he brought in Chalobah and never played him.

    It was as if he rewatched England vs Italy in 2021 and decided to emulate Southgate.

    Spain defend by keeping possession. He thought a poor England defence could hold out for over 30 minutes by sitting in their box inviting crosses in. This was a beatable Argentina.

    He should be sacked. At least years of watching England and Swindon, have numbed the pain of expectation and inevitable defeat.

    A typical well suited whimper of a bookend to the Starmer premiership.
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